Re: Fibber McGee's Closet

From: SteveS ^lt;[email protected]>
Date: 03/12/05-01:35:27 PM Z
Message-id: <003f01c5273b$8e9facb0$4802280a@VALUED65BAD02C>

Re: Fibber McGee's ClosetWhat's interesting about Jewela's whole ethic is just that: to side step the whole sexist thing.

For clarity, here: This guy calling himself Jewela Cameroon was a cross dressing man, living with a lesbian woman. As an artist their expression was meant to be without boundaries of sex as a demarkation.

I have one of the great photographs done and the orientation of that pt/pd image was wonderfully askew. Trees in a gultch, and you couldn't tell if you were looking up at them, or down; wether they were cut/fallen or standing at some odd angle. The particular contribution they made was in technique, using old silver gelatin paper, fixed as sized paper for pt/pd printing. As art, their views were mostly original with poignant and original insights.

I wish I had the old computer with the new name and address on it. We'd corredsponded since the early 1970's when I was doing pastels and writing out of my San Francisco basement apartment. Never met in person, but always traded insights on art.

I missed the performance art in New Mexico. Got great reviews.

Steve Shapiro, Carmel, CA
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Sandy King
  Sent: Saturday, March 12, 2005 8:22 AM
  Subject: Re: Fibber McGee's Closet

  Let me begin this message with a request to Grodon to remove my name as one of the list minders of this list. I do so that any comments I may make here, and in the future, will be seen as purely my own and not as official thought.

  I had not expected to write any more about this but changed my mind after this latest missive from Judy.

  I must acknowledge that Judy's comments about Jewelia would most likely not have caused me to become involved in this discussion. What determined that for me was her nasty response to Mr. Ptak, in which she ended up suggesting that he was a sexist because he complained about her remarks and not those of other males. So for the purpose of further comments by me Jewelia is not an issue. The issue is Judy's lack of civility.

  I have been a member of this list for a very long time, during which I have both contributed knowledge and experience and benefited from the knowledge and experience of others. If anyone cares to go back through the archives and look at my messages they will find that a very high percentage of them are on-topic dealing with alternative photography. I have my faults and one might also find a few examples of bad behavior on my part, with both males and females, some of which led to unfortunate exchanges that I regret. One in particular with Kerik Kouklis comes to mind, along with quite a number with Judy.

  What do we find if we look at Judy's contributions to this list? Well, we certainly find a great number of on-topic messages that have contributed much to the list. However, one also finds a great number of messages that that have nothing to do with alternative photography, the so-called prattle discussions.. And then there are the constant put-downs of list members, such as the gratuitous and nasty attack this week of Mr. Ptak, many which end with Judy calling the person a sexist. She has also repeatedly abused the list by insisting on discussing political and social issues that have nothing to do with the list, and this has also created long-term hostilities. Who can ever forget her post-9/11 diatribe. And then there are the endless quarrels and spats, so many that they are legend. And how many people knowledge and experience about alternative photography have left this list or refuse to engage with it because of her? Many, by my count. As for her whining that people have called her names and not been rebuked for doing so, I agree that this should stop. Ryuji should not have called her a cockroach. However, as for more recent comments that have referred to her rudeness, rancor, obnoxious attitude and sexist rants, that is not name calling in my opinion. It is, to be blunt, calling a spade a spade.

   Judy has been, by my estimation, at the center of 90% or more of the spats and quarrels on this list over the period of time that I have been involved with it. I for one am sick of wasting the list wasting so much of its energy and time with her agenda. So yes, I do call for Judy to limit her discussions to matters relating to alternative photography. And in particular I ask her to quite labeling people on this thread who disagree with her as sexists.

  And if she can not do so then I believe she should either remove herself from the list, or be removed from it by the list owner.


    On Thu, 10 Mar 2005, Dave Soemarko wrote:

      As for subsequent posts, we can always blame someone, but that will get us nowhere. We can say Mr. Ptak shouldn't have blamed someone before checking the facts, or that Judy shouldn't have been so angry because the other person was new and didn't know the history, or that Sandy shouldn't have added his comment, or that Bob shouldn't say... etc. etc., but we also know things like this are not always logical. People have feeling, emotion and also preference and right to opinions....

    Sure, Dave, but remember that some opinions are internally, not externally caused... i.e., don't blame me for them....

    Still, I really appreciate your support (and support from offlist: "Go Girl Go!", etc.), also your calm approach, but in your good nature you overlook what I find shameful and a disgrace to the list -- I'm called UGLY names by a few guys, a couple who (for internal reasons) just pile on, and nobody, much less our "list minder," says stop, that's ugly.. In fact he's another.

    List Minder Sandy King tells me "shut your mouth"!?!? If you said that to your bratty teenager, they'd call it bad parenting. He says it to a colleague ? (True, only a *female* colleague.) If I said the equivalent to him, or any of the guys, they'd have coast-to-coast coronaries. In fact the last time someone said something like that to a GUY, if memory serves, he was put off the list...

    OK, I did call John Ptak a lurker. Not quite a compliment, but clearly a fact (welcome to the list, John, introduce yourself -- you may have acquired a following, tho not necessarily an elite), and, if you think of it, exactly John's late arrival caused all the trouble. I cannot, CANNOT believe that if he'd been here during Jewelia days he'd have batted an eye at my mild, factual, thumbnail description.

    But, alas (behavioral scientists please note) denial is the most powerful human faculty -- when the force is on, no reality can penetrate. John Ptak, albeit, to his credit, remaining polite, says "I CONTINUE TO HAVE NO AMBIVALENCE ABOUT IT [my portrait of Jewelia] BEING DEROGATORY TO A PERSON AND A GROUP OF PEOPLE. (Emphasis added.) Exactly what is derogatory is not explained, but he still finds "the original remark offending."

    OK John, you asked for it. True, some men find any reference to male sex change "offending" (in fact I'm not so comfortable with it myself). But I think the explanation lies more with your inner Freud than anything I said. (I mean we're talking *castration*!) In any event, today I opened a real closet, a 180 year-old space off our living room that makes Fibber McGee's closet look empty. (I realize Fibber McGee's closet was from the very long ago, but so am I.)

    On top of the heap was a spiral-bound book, on the cover a rosy-cheeked young man with white hair and mustache holds a casette titled "Pecker." The caption says "dick head and his pecker"; the book itself is titled "Untitled 4-part play with Artist's presentations." It's marked,"for Judy" and signed "Jewelia Margaritta Cameroon,'99." It's a transcript of Jewelia's performance at 1999 APIS. I'll excerpt a few lines in a separate document -- and THEN, I DARE you to find my description anything but neutral !

    Meanwhile... Dave, are you still here? Do you remember the time, maybe one of your first posts to the list, maybe 10 years ago... You were writing about a generic photographer you referred to as "he." Then you stopped and asked the list, "Do I have to say 'he or she'?" I wrote, "you betcha," adding a short but brilliant explanation I forget now -- and all hell broke loose. Luis Nadeau went positively ballistic. One of the nicer things he called me (tho that was offlist, I still loved it) was "cultural imperialist," meaning that I was trying to make the world (including French Canadians!) follow the USA's politically correct rules. (I wonder if they ever did...?)

    OK, stay tuned for some excerpts...


Received on Sat Mar 12 13:43:06 2005

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