Re: Fibber McGee's Closet

From: John Ptak ^lt;>
Date: 03/12/05-01:13:33 PM Z
Message-id: <011101c52737$95b02240$6101a8c0@johnwe1gpx6f3s>

Dear Ms. Seigel,

I found your original post objectionable because it was derogatory towards
people like/similar to Jewelia; my response was intended towards their

The unfortunate analysis you provided (invoking my "inner Freud" (?))
establishing my incapacity for understanding is dismissible.

The Jewelia background information, which is somehow claimed to be
exculpatory, is deflecting and tangential to the discussion.

As a casual and uncommitted observer it would benefit your argument if you
would refrain from cursory and unfounded negative accusations of a personal

John Ptak

----- Original Message -----
From: "Judy Seigel" <>
To: <>
Sent: Saturday, March 12, 2005 3:04 AM
Subject: Fibber McGee's Closet

> On Thu, 10 Mar 2005, Dave Soemarko wrote:
>> As for subsequent posts, we can always blame someone, but that will get
>> us nowhere. We can say Mr. Ptak shouldn't have blamed someone before
>> checking the facts, or that Judy shouldn't have been so angry because the
>> other person was new and didn't know the history, or that Sandy shouldn't
>> have added his comment, or that Bob shouldn't say... etc. etc., but we
>> also know things like this are not always logical. People have feeling,
>> emotion and also preference and right to opinions....
> Sure, Dave, but remember that some opinions are internally, not externally
> caused... i.e., don't blame me for them....
> Still, I really appreciate your support (and support from offlist: "Go
> Girl Go!", etc.), also your calm approach, but in your good nature you
> overlook what I find shameful and a disgrace to the list -- I'm called
> UGLY names by a few guys, a couple who (for internal reasons) just pile
> on, and nobody, much less our "list minder," says stop, that's ugly.. In
> fact he's another.
> List Minder Sandy King tells me "shut your mouth"!?!? If you said that to
> your bratty teenager, they'd call it bad parenting. He says it to a
> colleague ? (True, only a *female* colleague.) If I said the equivalent to
> him, or any of the guys, they'd have coast-to-coast coronaries. In fact
> the last time someone said something like that to a GUY, if memory serves,
> he was put off the list...
> OK, I did call John Ptak a lurker. Not quite a compliment, but clearly a
> fact (welcome to the list, John, introduce yourself -- you may have
> acquired a following, tho not necessarily an elite), and, if you think of
> it, exactly John's late arrival caused all the trouble. I cannot, CANNOT
> believe that if he'd been here during Jewelia days he'd have batted an eye
> at my mild, factual, thumbnail description.
> But, alas (behavioral scientists please note) denial is the most powerful
> human faculty -- when the force is on, no reality can penetrate. John
> Ptak, albeit, to his credit, remaining polite, says "I CONTINUE TO HAVE NO
> AND A GROUP OF PEOPLE. (Emphasis added.) Exactly what is derogatory is not
> explained, but he still finds "the original remark offending."
> OK John, you asked for it. True, some men find any reference to male sex
> change "offending" (in fact I'm not so comfortable with it myself). But I
> think the explanation lies more with your inner Freud than anything I
> said. (I mean we're talking *castration*!) In any event, today I opened a
> real closet, a 180 year-old space off our living room that makes Fibber
> McGee's closet look empty. (I realize Fibber McGee's closet was from the
> very long ago, but so am I.)
> On top of the heap was a spiral-bound book, on the cover a rosy-cheeked
> young man with white hair and mustache holds a casette titled "Pecker."
> The caption says "dick head and his pecker"; the book itself is titled
> "Untitled 4-part play with Artist's presentations." It's marked,"for Judy"
> and signed "Jewelia Margaritta Cameroon,'99." It's a transcript of
> Jewelia's performance at 1999 APIS. I'll excerpt a few lines in a separate
> document -- and THEN, I DARE you to find my description anything but
> neutral !
> Meanwhile... Dave, are you still here? Do you remember the time, maybe
> one of your first posts to the list, maybe 10 years ago... You were
> writing about a generic photographer you referred to as "he." Then you
> stopped and asked the list, "Do I have to say 'he or she'?" I wrote, "you
> betcha," adding a short but brilliant explanation I forget now -- and all
> hell broke loose. Luis Nadeau went positively ballistic. One of the
> nicer things he called me (tho that was offlist, I still loved it) was
> "cultural imperialist," meaning that I was trying to make the world
> (including French Canadians!) follow the USA's politically correct rules.
> (I wonder if they ever did...?)
> OK, stay tuned for some excerpts...
> best,
> Judy
Received on Sat Mar 12 13:13:47 2005

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