RE: Boiling gelatin

From: Kate M ^lt;>
Date: 03/12/05-01:22:35 PM Z
Message-id: <000001c52738$d99994e0$6535f6d2@kateiwpiarptn6>

Katherine, et al.,this thread been very interesting to me - I always
shrink paper with very hot water, and have had troubles such as you
describe, particularly with Arches, but also with Hahnemuhle printmaking
paper that was probably sized the same way. This explains why I was
having to size between printings with Arches paper, and now I'm using
Saunders Waterford, don't have the same problems. I size with gelatine
and formaldehyde.

-----Original Message-----
From: Christina Z. Anderson []
Sent: Sunday, 13 March 2005 4:22 a.m.
Subject: Re: Boiling gelatin


Feel free to post the pic.

That paper didn't speckle, it spotched. That saga was where the hot
shrinking bath wreaked havoc with the manufacturer paper sizing and left

huge spots and streaks. In one print there was a stripe right down the
center of the image, looking like the edge of water on the seashore.
the sizing was melted away, the pigment layers grabbed and printed
I kept printing the print, and I save it for a teaching visual. I got
on Arches really badly, and that coupled with brown spots is why I will
never use Arches for gum.

I have gotten the speckling (I'm talking teeny pinpoint specks very
in the highlights, like the speckles on a robin's egg, or like
(magenta heads) on a person's face) on Rives BFK with glyoxal sizing, no

boiled gelatin, in the past, **all** the time, and usually on the third

layer. So at a certain point the sizing breaks down and the pigment
into the top little paper fibers.

Since quitting using glyoxal and Rives BFK I don't have speckling. I
not gone back to BFK with a glut hardened size to compare.

However, you may be right that the shrink bath water temp plays a part
this, melting away manufacturer sizing.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Katharine Thayer" <>
To: <>
Sent: Friday, March 11, 2005 4:34 PM
Subject: Re: Boiling gelatin

> You all know how I am when I get curious about something, so I went
> looking for the discussion around this. I found it in December 2003,
> and I didn't read the whole thread, but I was able to determine that
> the paper was some kind of Fabriano, Chris wasn't sure what. She said
> it didn't have the Uno logo and she thought it might be artistico.
> (I'm assuming this is the old artistico, not the new artistico, but I
> don't know. I'm only assuming that because Chris isn't having the same

> problem with the new Artistico paper). I asked how hot the water was
> and she replied "As hot as my faucet will deliver--not hot enough to
> burn, just too hot to take a bath in." But most interesting: she had
> some BFK Rives in the same bathtubful of hot water, which did not
> exhibit the same problem, which was definite speckling and blotching
> of the print, where the sizing failed and pigment was absorbed
> differentially into the paper. Which suggests to me even more
> strongly that this interaction between factory sizing and hot water
> may be paper-related; some papers do it and some papers don't. It
> would also be interesting to know how Chris was sizing then. If both
> the paper and sizing are different, then who knows... the effect could

> be related to paper, or to sizing, or to both. kt
> Katharine Thayer wrote:
>> Chris,
>> I remembered that I actually have this print, since you sent it to me

>> so I could put it up on my website for people to look at. Funny, I
>> remembered it as one kid diving, but actually it's a bigger kid with
>> a littler kid on his shoulders. I've got it out there ready to go,
>> but since it's your image I won't post the URL without your
>> permission. Katharine
>> >
>> > Katharine Thayer wrote:
>> > Actually, I think we've seen something in the past that sort of
>> > tangentially supports this idea. Chris, remember the weird prints
>> > you got on the papers that you shrank in hot water in the bathtub?
>> > (A kid diving off a diving board, is the print I remember). That
>> > was a very definite effect of hot water on the factory sizing of
>> > the paper. But I don't remember what the paper was, or whether
>> > there was speckling, or whether it was even a multiple print.
>> > Katharine

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Received on Sat Mar 12 13:22:56 2005

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