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[ale] Why systemd vs sysvinit really doesn't matter to me



On 02/17/2018 08:29 PM, Steve Litt via Ale wrote:
> On Sat, 17 Feb 2018 15:34:01 -0500
> "Damon L. Chesser via Ale" <ale at ale.org> wrote:
>
>> The Market has spoken.
> I'd label the preceding as a premature declaration of victory. I'll bet
> you Red Hat is shocked at the number and mindshare of holdout distros,
> especially since a lot of them are using inits other than sysvinit, so
> in many dimensions they are demonstrably better than systemd.
Not really a label, it was meant to be an observation.
>> Perhaps it was a rigged game with a rigged
>> vote?? Eh.? roll you own.
> What the hell do you think millions of us are doing? Projects have
> sanitized Arch and Manjaro. The systemd-free Devuan project is being
> used in shops all over the place. Former Debian, Ubuntu, Redhat, Fedora
> and OpenSuSe users populate the worlds of Void Linux, Devuan, and *BSD,
> bringing with their knowledge and common sense.


hmmm, missed that in my myopia. I really don't move in those circles.? I 
just grab a distro and install it and they all (major) default to 
systemd.? I mean, are there really major distros moving to avoid 
systemd?? I know you can grab Arch or Gento and do either, but aside 
from that?? Devuan, is it alive and well?? *BSD?? Solid OS, I guess, I 
never used it much, but that is a tiny, tiny market share.? Serious 
questions, no sarcasm meant at all.
>
>> If this sounds harsh, it is not meant to
>> be.
> It's just the Libertarian in you. Well, we're all Libertarian, and
> plenty of us voted by switching distros. Although systemd commands the
> major mindshare in big-iron corporations, plenty of businesses and
> individuals use its alternatives and like it that way.

yeah, no large business, but they don't care.? They just want to buy 
support and that means Red Hat and systemd.? Some Ubunut. Small 
business, don't care, they want it for nothing and will take what ever 
their expert tells them will work.
>
>> Just factual on what My View is.? I just don't get it.
> OK, listen to what the systemd-free folks are really saying.
They are saying, don't force it down our throats.? Who is?
or perhaps I am missing it?
>
>> The
>> emotional turmoil.? Really?
> A piece of with-us-or-agin-us software on 70% of Linux boxes make it
> inconvenient for us. Yeah, *we* don't use it, but there's always some
> fool who thinks it's cool and new to gratuitously dependency a piece of
> formerly init-independent software to systemd. It's a hassle. Think of
> how you feel when people send you MS Office documents with MS Office
> proprietary features. You get mad.

Valid.? Agreed.
>
>> People are dying the world over for a
>> variety of reasons.
> That's over the top. If discourse didn't start til people died, this
> would be a horrible world. The preceding sentence is a no-op.

of course.? it is to draw attention to it.? to much drama.
>
>> No matter what side of an issue you take, there
>> is mass injustice
> Ditto.

Ditto.
>
>>   people are up in arms YEARS after an init
>> system is replaced?? OK.? Put it into perspective.
> Yes, YEARS. Put that into perspective. I don't remember any other free
> software that this happened with. You might want to really listen to
> folks who don't use systemd and work to keep it that way.

Gnome shell anybody?? Gnome used to be good.? Now I use XFCE4 or Mint 
(derivative of Gnome shell, but a very usable one).? I could (and face 
to face I do) go on a rant about how I don't want my tablet to act like 
my phone that acts like my desktop.? I am still made at Gnome for making 
changes taking choice away.? I can understand THAT.

Grub anybody (for another example).? People hated GRUB Lilo was sooo 
simple to use.? Network manager.? Used to rip it out every chance I got.

but then again, I used to configure my wireless by hand and use iwconfig 
to get it working.? Just seems like change.? While there are distros 
running that don't use them, are they more than just a niche?? Again, a 
real question.? I will go and search such things out and see the state 
of those projects.
>
> And please, if you want to answer points I've made, please interleave
> post so we all know the context to which you're replying.

Yeah, point taken, I actually noted that in my last reply.? Default mail 
client, was to lazy to jump in and change it.? Also tainted with 
outlook.? I actually hate top posting for all but the most brief response.
>
> SteveT
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Damon at damtek.com
404-271-8699