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[ih] inter-network communication history

 I? have a memory of talking to a friend who was working at a prominent Internet vendor about network management in the late 80s (timeframe of the first release of SNMP).? If I am remembering correctly he said he couldn't get any traction to really do anything because from the company's perspective you could only sell one to a customer so they would rather devote their resources to other efforts.
I am not sure we were entirely without any companies trying to develop a product in the network management space in the late 80s/early 90s. I vaguely remember having to look at what was available.? I think this was for a military testbed in Korea.? Unfortunately I don't remember much about the software products, or names, since it was very short term project/effort for me (Other than the software did more monitoring than management).

    On Friday, November 8, 2019, 05:34:09 PM PST, Brian E Carpenter via Internet-history <internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote:  
 > I couldn't find any such tools in ~1991 other than the ones that had
> been around since the early 80s.? Still can't in ~2020.

The answer to that mystery is, I believe, that this stuff is aimed at large operatorss willing to buy expensive proprietary tools or write their own tools.



A lot of the independent network management tools that you can buy don't seem have got past SNMP though, from a quick Google trawl. But from the number of operators involved in defining YANG modules, I'm guessing that they have toolsets up and running (replacing PERL scripts driving proprietary CLIs).

? Brian

On 09-Nov-19 12:53, Jack Haverty via Internet-history wrote:
> On 11/8/19 2:23 PM, Vint Cerf via Internet-history wrote:
>> see RFC 1109
>> v
> Thanks for the pointer.? I now remember encountering RFC1109 (published
> 1989) back in the early 90s when I was looking for tools to manage our
> intranet.? There's a key sentence in 1109:
> "It was generally agreed that the actual network management tools
> available to operators, rather than the specifics of the protocols
> supporting the tools, would be the determining factor in the
> effectiveness of any Internet network management system."
> I couldn't find any such tools in ~1991 other than the ones that had
> been around since the early 80s.?? Still can't in ~2020.?? Lots of
> documents and protocols though.
> I've explored a bit into the NETCONF/(P)YANG pointers but haven't
> encountered anything that even seems related to Network Management, or
> any sign of tools/code.? The material at "readthedocs" tells me that
> NETCONF has clients and servers, but casts no light on what those
> servers actually do.? That netconf documentation is somewhat circular:
> "This package supports creating both netconf clients and servers.
> Additionally a CLI netconf utility is included. Additionally netconf
> uses _sshutil and thus supports your SSH agent and SSH config when using
> the client as well as socket caching for optimal performance."
> OOOKKKKAAAYYY...the netconf package creates netconfs, but what does a
> netconf do??? I gather that maybe it carries YANGs?
> Somehow I'm increasingly skeptical that, even if I find some modern
> tools, there's not a high probability that the devices I have scattered
> now around my LAN will play their game.? Back to PING and TCPDUMP et
> al.?? I wonder if my devices respond to SNMP.? I'm sure I have a
> database lying around here somewhere, and could probably refresh my
> memory of shell scripts.
> RFC1109 also identified a key missing piece:
> "It was acknowledged that the present service interfaces of both SNMP
> and CMIS have limitations (e.g., neither has any sense of time other
> than "now"; this makes it impossible to express queries for historical
> information, or to issue command requests of the form: Do X at device Y,
> beginning in 30 minutes)"
> Well, at a database company, "impossible to express queries" is a
> challenge.? When we cobbled together our adhoc management system, it
> turned out that databases are really good at handling time and queries
> for historical information, for performing actions on schedules or
> demand (see TRIGGER in database lingo, or for simple stuff just use
> cron) and for collecting and distributing data as needed.? Melding SNMP
> and a database with a little Shell-script and SQL glue was pretty
> straightforward and turned out to be very useful for managing the
> intranet.??
> We even mused about scattering databases around the net to limit traffic
> loads by collecting high-volume SNMP data locally, and all of that
> scattered data would be automatically aggregated using standard
> distributed database techniques.? It worked for industries managing
> sales, inventory, shipments, orders, etc., so it would work for network
> data.?? I'm not sure if we ever did that though.? What we did in a few
> days was enough to put out the fires.
> Those observations in 1109 were very wise and accurate.? What happened
> in the thirty years since...?? A timeline/history of Network Management
> in the Internet might be fascinating - Tools, not meetings, protocols
> and documents.
> I think somebody hit my hot button... I'll stop typing.....
> /Jack

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