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[ih] internet-history Digest, Vol 37, Issue 1

i thought the first meeting was 1986 and was just lectures by Internet  

On Nov 5, 2009, at 4:30 PM, Jack Haverty wrote:

> I just found my souvenir plastic pocket protector - "TCP/IP '87  
> Geeks on
> the Bay in Monterey".  I think this was probably just before the name
> "Interop" appeared, but it was arguably the first Interop conference.
> The first name was "Advanced Computing Environments" (on my ceramic
> souvenir tile.)
> I wonder what else is down in this drawer....  /Jack
> On Mon, 2009-11-02 at 18:34 -0500, Vint Cerf wrote:
>> oh, duh, that can't be right (Interop wasn't born until about 1986  
>> was
>> it?).
>> so I guess I don't know where that pin came from.
>> v
>> On Nov 2, 2009, at 4:44 PM, Jack Haverty wrote:
>>> This is like the arguments about when life begins - lots of  
>>> different
>>> opinions...
>>> I like Bob's milestone - the Internet came to life when its  
>>> technology
>>> (i.e., the TCP technology that enabled the "inter" aspect of  
>>> Internet)
>>> was adopted for operational use and there was no going back.
>>> Everything
>>> before that was prenatal, part of a lengthy R&D gestation.  Much of
>>> the
>>> Arpanet software "DNA" carried over to the Internet algorithms.  But
>>> 1/1/1983 seems like a good date for when the Internet was "born".
>>> Subsequently, the offspring Internet consumed its mother Arpanet,
>>> which
>>> disappeared totally - as happens in the animal kingdom.  But of
>>> course,
>>> opinions may differ.
>>> At the time, the "Arpanet people" didn't think they were creating an
>>> Internet.  In fact, as I remember, the Internet was somewhat of an
>>> annoyance, since it significantly altered the traffic patterns which
>>> the
>>> Arpanet internal algorithms were optimized to handle and caused
>>> operational problems as a result.  Those "gateways" (now called
>>> routers)
>>> just acted weird, unlike normal well-behaved hosts.  The Arpanet R&D
>>> was
>>> intently focused on making the network bigger and better, converting
>>> to
>>> the X.25 interface, deploying clone networks for anyone who wanted
>>> one,
>>> and in general evolving and commercializing the Arpanet technology.
>>> The government had to mandate the transition to TCP in order to make
>>> it
>>> possible to communicate across several networks - the "inter" in
>>> Internet.  Without the mandate, I doubt it would have happened.    
>>> Our
>>> "Internet" today would probably be a gaggle of X.25 networks
>>> interconnected by X.75 gateways - that was certainly the plan.  The
>>> economics and performance of X.25/X.75 would probably never have
>>> permitted the creation of the Web, or any of the other "killer apps"
>>> that we now use everyday.  Packet-switching may have changed the
>>> economics of using long lines, but I think the "Internet economics"
>>> changed the cost structure on data comm dramatically, and that's  
>>> what
>>> enabled the explosion of growth of "The Internet" from the mid-90s  
>>> on.
>>> If the Arpanet had had its way, today's Internet, if it existed at
>>> all,
>>> would be X.25/X.75.
>>> So, my perspective is that the Arpanet was not the fledgling
>>> Internet -
>>> the Arpanet reluctantly nurtured the Internet, and eventually died
>>> as a
>>> result.  Once TCP was required, the Arpanet was doomed; it took  
>>> only a
>>> few years.  I wonder if there are any Arpanet-style X.25 networks
>>> left...
>>> I have a big red button that says "I Survived the TCP Transition
>>> 1/1/83".  They were handed out to commemorate the cutover, but I  
>>> don't
>>> remember exactly where I got it.  Sounds like something Jon Postel
>>> would
>>> have done though.  Anybody else have one?
>>> /Jack Haverty
>>> Point Arena, CA
>>> On Mon, 2009-11-02 at 12:20 -0800, Bob Braden wrote:
>>>> Noel wrote:
>>>>  And speaking of the Internet as a distinct entity, whats it's
>>>> birth-day
>>>>> anyway? I would call it the first day on which a packet was sent
>>>>> from one
>>>>> host, across a particular kind of network, through a router (or
>>>> gateway as we
>>>>> called them back then), across another network, into another host.
>>>> (That woul
>>>>> d
>>>>> have been a TCP packet, I guess - no IP back then!) So where and
>>>>> when was
>>>>> that?
>>>> At the time, we reckoned the beginning of the Internet to be the  
>>>> Red
>>>> Flag day when the ARPAnet converted from NCP to TCP/IP: Jan 1,  
>>>> 1983.
>>>> I think someone has an "I survived..." sweatshirt to commemorate
>>>> that date.
>>>> Bob Braden