RE: POP process

From: Mike Kirwan ^lt;>
Date: 11/08/04-08:27:24 AM Z
Message-id: <003301c4c59f$10fffba0$0201a8c0@Screamer>

Does anyone know if you can formulate a Selenium Toner without using
Sodium Thiosulfate (fixer) and would that help in reducing the bleaching
- Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: Diana Bloomfield []
Sent: Monday, November 08, 2004 6:10 AM
Subject: Re: POP process


I'm interested in the selenium toning as well. I probably wouldn't use
it, but I'm curious about the use of it for POP prints. I have used POP
and gold toned, and don't really have anything to add to what everybody
else has said here. I liked it very much and thought they made for rich
prints with interesting tones... and found that, for me, the end result
was much better if I really over-exposed the image initially. And wear
the white gloves, definitely. And unless you have good storage for the
paper, it does go bad fairly quickly, I think. I'm in a humid climate,
and I couldn't allow a box to sit on a shelf for any real length of
time. And when gold-toning these (as with any toning, I guess), but more
so with this...really stay there and agitate the tray..definitely keep
the print moving. Just my experience. I liked the results, but I do
think it's expensive.

And someone on this list in the last few months gave a link to Linda
Connor's POP printing method, which I thought was interesting, so it's
in the archives somewhere. Maybe they sent it back in the summer?

But I'm curious about the selenium, because I had wondered if you could
use selenium to tone these, instead of the gold, and the folks at
Chicago Albumen Works strongly advised against it and pretty much
implied I would have a ruined print on my hands if I tried it. I never
bothered, since I didn't have any on hand anyway, but I had just


On Nov 8, 2004, at 8:44 AM, Jeff Sumner wrote:

Would you please elaborate on the Selenium toning that you do? I've run
out of gold toner far in advance of my POP and I'd like to use the rest.
My experimentation with POP and selenium toning turned the paper
completely black.


From: David & Jan Harris <>
Reply-To: <>
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 06:02:11 +0000
To: <>
Subject: Re: POP process


I have very recently started using POP paper, here are a few

1. Toning is (near) vital with this paper. Without toning the result is
a strong orange/brown which does not suit too many images, and exposure
times may be excessive due to bleaching in the fixer.

2. Very different results, particularly in image colour, but also in
contrast range, exposure requirements and possibly tonality can be
obtained using different toning strategies. This is a benefit (wide
range of possible results) but also may be the paper's achilles heel
(difficult to achieve consistency due to toner exhaustion).

3. The "classic" toning involves gold toning before fixing. This reduces
the bleaching effect, so keeps exposure times short. I have found it to
give cool tones in the highlights and brown midtones and shadows at
short toning times, up to overall cool tone with longer exposure times.
Dmax with this toning is around log 2.1.

4. I have tried palladium toning but wasn't happy with the results (some
prints failed to clear in the highlights, and it was hard to achieve a
high Dmax).

5. Selenium toning (using dilute toner) after fixing works quite well,
giving a more neutral colour (slightly warm highlights, slightly cool
shadows). The bleaching effect in the fix is more significant, so
exposure seems to be three times that required for gold toning before
fixing, this does still give a good Dmax however.

6. Care needs to be taken not to handle the paper, I use cotton gloves
and process in one tray to avoid handling during processing.

7. The only strategy for contrast control is to change the toning. This
may be a problem for you if your nagatives are fixed, the negative
contrast and characteristics might not suit the paper. The only thing to
do is to try it!


----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November 08, 2004 3:16 AM
Subject: Re: POP process

Hello Shannon,

Thanks so much for responding to my question. You are the only one who
responded Perhaps that means few people use POP paper.

You mentioined Azo paper. From the web, I see that it's a paper Kodak
makes and that it comes in #2 and #3 contrasts. It is glossy?

What can you recall about the problems of exposing the POP paper? I
recall you said that it had been a couple of years since you have used
it. And also, you mentioned that you had problems toning it, What
were the problems?

Why did you begin to use the POP paper and what made you stop using it?

I'll be very grateful for your help.

Donna <>
Received on Mon Nov 8 08:28:26 2004

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