From marka at isc.org Thu Oct 1 01:26:52 2015 From: marka at isc.org (Mark Andrews) Date: Thu, 01 Oct 2015 11:26:52 +1000 Subject: How to force rapid ipv6 adoption In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 30 Sep 2015 23:34:34 +0200." References: Message-ID: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> In message , Baldur Norddahl writes: > On 30 September 2015 at 21:41, McElearney, Kevin < > Kevin_McElearney at cable.comcast.com> wrote: > > > This only helps 1/3 of the challenge. Even with most Comcast customers > > able to obtain IPv6 today and over 70% provisioned with IPv6, less than > > 20% of the traffic is IPv6. There is still a need to address home device > > support and content provider adoption. > > > > We will never get there 100%. There are many sites out there running 100% > on autopilot. They will stay IPv4 forever until the server crashes and > never comes back online. > > The same will be true for many homes. People who don't want to change > anything. They will keep Windows XP and whatever antique device they use to > connect to the internet until the thing catches fire from the accumulated > dust. And then they will go on ebay to buy a replacement exactly the same. Windows XP does IPv6 fine so long as there is a IPv4 recursive server available. It's just a simple command to install IPv6. netsh interface ipv6 install Installing a DNS proxy / nameserver on 127.0.0.1 that talks IPv6 will allow it to run on a IPv6 only network once you tell it to talk to 127.0.0.1. named with this named.conf would suffice. Named talks IPv6 by default. options { listen-on { 127.0.0.1; }; }; We did something like this for the IPv6 only experiment at a IETF plenary years ago now. As for buying a exact replacement, thats becoming hard these day. > Remember that people with Windows XP with their ancient version of Internet > Explorer already can not access many sites. They don't care. > > I believe the real goal is to get to a point, where people will accept the > more invasive transition technologies such as NAT64, because everything > they care about is IPv6 enabled. > > At some point people will start making IPv6 only sites, because everyone > they know have IPv6 access. At that point the internet will split into two > - the people that have access to the whole thing (IPv6+IPv4) and the > IPv4-only people. Yet a lot of those IPv4-only people will stay IPv4-only > even though they know they are missing out on something. Because Gmail and > Facebook will always be available on IPv4 and that is all they care about. Actually I don't expect Gmail and Facebook to be IPv4 only forever. Just about all user equipement that talks to these sites is already IPv6 capable including Windows XP. For most homes the only thing holding them back from talking IPv6 is the lack of a IPv6 home router and the ISP being to lazy to deploy it. $50 addresses the first of those problems. > Regards, > > Baldur -- Mark Andrews, ISC 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: marka at isc.org From jra at baylink.com Thu Oct 1 03:25:23 2015 From: jra at baylink.com (Jay Ashworth) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2015 23:25:23 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Quick Update on the North American BCOP Efforts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <6160113.592.1443669923679.JavaMail.root@benjamin.baylink.com> ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chris Grundemann" > After receiving several off-line inquiries about the status of BCOP in > North America I think it's appropriate to send a general announcement > here. > > The biggest news here is that the current NANOG Board of Directors has > disbanded the NANOG BCOP Committee. The stated rationale for this > decision can be found in the minutes from their 2 February 2015 meeting. I tried it 5 or 6 years ago: http://bestpractices.wikia.com I didn't get any traction either. Guessing no one cares. Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth Baylink jra at baylink.com Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100 Ashworth & Associates http://www.bcp38.info 2000 Land Rover DII St Petersburg FL USA BCP38: Ask For It By Name! +1 727 647 1274 From fergdawgster at mykolab.com Thu Oct 1 03:36:45 2015 From: fergdawgster at mykolab.com (Paul Ferguson) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2015 20:36:45 -0700 Subject: Quick Update on the North American BCOP Efforts In-Reply-To: <6160113.592.1443669923679.JavaMail.root@benjamin.baylink.com> References: <6160113.592.1443669923679.JavaMail.root@benjamin.baylink.com> Message-ID: <560CAA4D.8050805@mykolab.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 9/30/2015 8:25 PM, Jay Ashworth wrote: > Guessing no one cares. Darwinism. - - ferg - -- Paul Ferguson PGP Public Key ID: 0x54DC85B2 Key fingerprint: 19EC 2945 FEE8 D6C8 58A1 CE53 2896 AC75 54DC 85B2 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iF4EAREIAAYFAlYMqk0ACgkQKJasdVTchbJbMAD/YpiWJ6M+IrWvhPxalNOV5VwI Gb28QJvadjwZjSJuIJEBAKHHNcu23AJn1jh6Qe2HxfFr8yMKyfEbnHe271Xxrult =VV1S -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cgrundemann at gmail.com Thu Oct 1 04:37:11 2015 From: cgrundemann at gmail.com (Chris Grundemann) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2015 00:37:11 -0400 Subject: Quick Update on the North American BCOP Efforts In-Reply-To: <6160113.592.1443669923679.JavaMail.root@benjamin.baylink.com> References: <6160113.592.1443669923679.JavaMail.root@benjamin.baylink.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 11:25 PM, Jay Ashworth wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Chris Grundemann" > > > After receiving several off-line inquiries about the status of BCOP in > > North America I think it's appropriate to send a general announcement > > here. > > > > The biggest news here is that the current NANOG Board of Directors has > > disbanded the NANOG BCOP Committee. The stated rationale for this > > decision can be found in the minutes from their 2 February 2015 meeting. > > I tried it 5 or 6 years ago: > > http://bestpractices.wikia.com We've been at this for 7 or 8 years now. Related efforts all around the world are taking root and growing. http://www.internetsociety.org/deploy360/projects/bcop/ You are invited to help if you have time or ideas! > > > I didn't get any traction either. > The really disappointing part is that we have been gaining traction and now have to re-group in this region rather than smoothly continue to build. > > Guessing no one cares. > My experience says that guess is wrong. The problem is twofold. Those that care the most are the ones who need the information, not those who have it (for obvious reasons). Those that have the information are mostly busy engineers, for whom writing documentation is not their favorite thing. Cheers, ~Chris From marco at paesani.it Thu Oct 1 05:02:14 2015 From: marco at paesani.it (Marco Paesani) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2015 07:02:14 +0200 Subject: Routes leaked by AS393742 via AS16397 In-Reply-To: References: <20150930215922.GB21567@bamboo.slabnet.com> Message-ID: Hi, I already send an email to Daniel (daniel at biyort.com) .... I hope to receive a prompt replay. Thanks to all for info and help. Regards & Ciao ! Marco 2015-10-01 1:03 GMT+02:00 Robert Webb : > Although, you did provide a little more detail. :-) > > > > > On Wed, 30 Sep 2015 14:59:22 -0700 > Hugo Slabbert wrote: > >> >> On Wed 2015-Sep-30 17:43:40 -0400, Robert Webb >> wrote: >> >> https://ipinfo.io/AS393742 >>> >> >> ...I'm so behind the times; my response would have been: >> >> $ finger 393742 at peeringdb.com >> >> General Network Information >> --------------------------- >> Network Name : Biyort USA Corp >> Name Aliases : >> Primary ASN : 393742 >> Website : http://www.biyort.com >> IRR AS-SET : >> Network Type : NSP >> Approx BGP Prefixes : >> Traffic Levels : 100-200 Gbps >> Traffic Ratios : Balanced >> Geographic Scope : North America >> Supported Protocols : Coming Soon >> Looking Glass URL : http://lg.biyort.com >> Route Server URL : >> Public Notes : >> Record Created Date : 2015-01-13 20:24:36 >> Last Updated Date : 2015-04-03 00:01:07 >> >> Peering Policy Information >> -------------------------- >> Peering Policy URL : >> General Policy : Restrictive >> Location Requirement : Required - International >> Ratio Requirement : Yes >> Contract Requirement : Not Required >> >> Contact Information >> ------------------- >> >> Role Name E-Mail Phone >> ---- ---- ------ ----- >> Public Relations Rene rjesus at biyort.com >> Technical Daniels daniel at biyort.com >> NOC Network support at biyort.com >> >> Public Peering Information - 5 >> -------------------------- >> >> Exchange Point ASN IP Address >> Capacity >> -------------- --- ---------- >> -------- >> NDB 393742 198.32.122.118 1000 >> Mbps >> NOTA 393742 198.32.125.131 10000 >> Mbps >> NOTA 393742 2001:478:124::1131 10000 >> Mbps >> PTT-PR 393742 200.219.140.87 10000 >> Mbps >> PTT-SP 393742 187.16.220.15 10000 >> Mbps >> >> Private Peering Information >> --------------------------- >> >> Facility Name ASN City >> Country >> ------------- --- ---- >> ------- >> Cogent Velizy 393742 Vizy Villacoublay >> FR >> NTT 393742 San Jose US >> >> ...or http://bgp.he.net/AS393742 if it wasn't in peeringdb. >> >> -- >> Hugo >> >> >>> On Wed, 30 Sep 2015 23:24:44 +0200 >>> Marco Paesani wrote: >>> >>>> Hi, >>>> anyboody know this AS ?? >>>> Upstream AS3549 >>>> Thanks ! >>>> Regards >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> Marco Paesani >>>> MPAE Srl >>>> >>>> Skype: mpaesani >>>> Mobile: +39 348 6019349 >>>> Success depends on the right choice ! >>>> Email: marco at paesani.it >>>> >>> >>> >>> > > -- Marco Paesani MPAE Srl Skype: mpaesani Mobile: +39 348 6019349 Success depends on the right choice ! Email: marco at paesani.it From baldur.norddahl at gmail.com Thu Oct 1 07:39:33 2015 From: baldur.norddahl at gmail.com (Baldur Norddahl) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2015 09:39:33 +0200 Subject: How to force rapid ipv6 adoption In-Reply-To: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> Message-ID: On 1 October 2015 at 03:26, Mark Andrews wrote: > Windows XP does IPv6 fine so long as there is a IPv4 recursive > server available. It's just a simple command to install IPv6. > > netsh interface ipv6 install > If the customer knew how to do that he wouldn't still be using Windows XP. > Actually I don't expect Gmail and Facebook to be IPv4 only forever. > Gmail and Facebook are already dual stack enabled. But I do not see Facebook turning off IPv4 for a very long time. Therefore a customer that only uses the Internet for a few basic things will be able to get along with being IPv4-only for a very long time. IPv6 has no killer feature for this customer segment. They will be upgraded the next time they move and get new equipment. Otherwise they will stay with what they got until the retirement home. Regards, Baldur From dovid at telecurve.com Thu Oct 1 10:34:57 2015 From: dovid at telecurve.com (Dovid Bender) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2015 10:34:57 +0000 Subject: Question re session hijacking in dual stack environments w/MacOS Message-ID: <99887380-1443695697-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1089827571-@b13.c3.bise6.blackberry> Have a look at JuiceSSH. ------Original Message------ From: Mark Tinka Sender: NANOG To: David Hubbard To: nanog at nanog.org Subject: Re: Question re session hijacking in dual stack environments w/MacOS Sent: Sep 29, 2015 03:23 On 26/Sep/15 16:34, David Hubbard wrote: > > Has anyone run into this? Our users on other platforms don't seem to > have this issue; linux and MS desktops seem to just use v6 if it's > available and v4 if not. I have been tracking down an issue for months where SSH'ing to some devices (which picks IPv6 by default) from my Mac while in the office drops the connection, forcing me to reconnect. It's random; sometimes it happens a lot, sometimes, rarely, other times not at all. I've sort of suspected OS X to be the issue (10.10.5) here. The workaround has been to SSH strictly on IPv4 which is always stable. So it seems to be an issue when the session is carried over IPv6. This only affects OS X. SSH'ing from FreeBSD, for example, on IPv6 is stable. To be honest, I've been a little busy to look deeper into this, but it definitely has something to do with what you describe, I imagine. Mark. Regards, Dovid From bill at herrin.us Thu Oct 1 12:25:30 2015 From: bill at herrin.us (William Herrin) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2015 08:25:30 -0400 Subject: gmail admins? Message-ID: Howdy, Any gmail admins out there? I forward email addressed to me to a gmail account. Overnight you started returning: ----- Transcript of session follows ----- ... while talking to gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com.: >>> DATA <<< 550 5.7.1 [IR] Our system has detected an excessively high number of invalid recipients originating from your account. Contact your service provider for sup port 554 5.0.0 Service unavailable There were not temporary failures, you jumped straight to permanent failures. Emails were about 90% to my own gmail account, a total of about 80 over 12 hours. Fix your damn algorithm. And of course I have to complain publicly because you don't accept trouble reports privately, instead sending people into useless dead-end automated help systems. Thanks, Bill Herrin -- William Herrin ................ herrin at dirtside.com bill at herrin.us Owner, Dirtside Systems ......... Web: From chk at pobox.com Thu Oct 1 13:35:06 2015 From: chk at pobox.com (Harald Koch) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2015 09:35:06 -0400 Subject: Quick Update on the North American BCOP Efforts In-Reply-To: References: <6160113.592.1443669923679.JavaMail.root@benjamin.baylink.com> Message-ID: On 1 October 2015 at 00:37, Chris Grundemann wrote: > > Those that have the information are mostly busy > engineers, for whom writing documentation is not their favorite thing. > There's also the issue that if you ask two NANOG engineers a technical question you'll get (at least) five answers... From yardiel at gmail.com Thu Oct 1 14:16:13 2015 From: yardiel at gmail.com (Yardiel Fuentes) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2015 10:16:13 -0400 Subject: Quick Update on the North American BCOP Efforts In-Reply-To: References: <6160113.592.1443669923679.JavaMail.root@benjamin.baylink.com> Message-ID: I wouldn't call it an issue.. it is precisely the potential multiplicity of practices which gives strong value to a "best Common Operational Practice" ... that was the experience working towards ratifying a DDoS/DoS BCOP ... and the BCOP keeps improving... all for the benefit of the Net Ops community... Yardiel Fuentes On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 9:35 AM, Harald Koch wrote: > On 1 October 2015 at 00:37, Chris Grundemann > wrote: > > > > > Those that have the information are mostly busy > > engineers, for whom writing documentation is not their favorite thing. > > > > There's also the issue that if you ask two NANOG engineers a technical > question you'll get (at least) five answers... > -- Yardiel Fuentes From rdobbins at arbor.net Thu Oct 1 14:58:49 2015 From: rdobbins at arbor.net (Roland Dobbins) Date: Thu, 01 Oct 2015 09:58:49 -0500 Subject: Quick Update on the North American BCOP Efforts In-Reply-To: References: <6160113.592.1443669923679.JavaMail.root@benjamin.baylink.com> Message-ID: <36CAC6F9-E295-46C0-AB92-540816C2F4AA@arbor.net> On 30 Sep 2015, at 23:37, Chris Grundemann wrote: > The problem is twofold. Those that care the most are the ones who need > the information, not those who have it > (for obvious reasons). My view is the opposite - that those who have enough expertise, experience, and vision to understand the problem space have already done these things (to the degree that they can do so within the constraints of their respective organizations), and the people who don't know don't even understand that the problem space exists in the first place. So, educating folks to the point that they understand that the problem space exists is The Problem, writ large. ----------------------------------- Roland Dobbins From hugo at slabnet.com Thu Oct 1 15:56:34 2015 From: hugo at slabnet.com (Hugo Slabbert) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2015 08:56:34 -0700 Subject: IPv6 and Android auto conf In-Reply-To: References: <20150928152039.GG1518@bamboo.slabnet.com> Message-ID: <20151001155634.GD21567@bamboo.slabnet.com> On Mon 2015-Sep-28 21:15:02 +0530, Anurag Bhatia wrote: >Hi Hugo > > >(My reply in line) > >On Mon, Sep 28, 2015 at 8:50 PM, Hugo Slabbert wrote: > >> >> On Mon 2015-Sep-28 17:33:46 +0530, Anurag Bhatia >> wrote: >> >> Hello everyone >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> I recently got IPv6 working at home LAN. My Android device (Google Nexus >>> 5) >>> is connected via wifi to LAN and LAN's core router is Map2N >>> . I have a /64 on the LAN with >>> "advertise" >>> enabled to make ND to work and have autoconfig working on all devices. >>> There are bunch of other layer 2 devices in LAN but all just acting as >>> layer 2 transparently and core L3 remains on Map2N. >>> >>> >>> All works well for most part but only trouble I am getting is on Nexus 5 >>> where after around 24hrs IPv6 stops working. >>> >> >> How, specifically, does it "stop working" on the Nexus 5? >> - temp addresses expired and does not generate new, valid, slaac addresses? >> - RA entry ages out and doesn't get refreshed? >> - cannot reach v6 gateway (ND fails somehow)? > >The last one - everything appears normal (with 4 IPv6 addresses on the >device) but I cannot point any neighbor in same VLAN. Nor I can ping from >them. > That sounds either like NDP is busted on the phone or the AP is eating the Android device's ND traffic. When this happens, does the Android device show up in the ND cache of the other devices on the network that you are trying to reach/ping? Does it show up in the ND cache of the segment's router? If the Android device isn't showing up in other hosts ND caches when you try to ping them, can you do a pcap on one of those hosts when you try to initiate pings from the Android device to confirm if NS packets are being received? Have you tried doing captures on the Android device directly [1][2][3] to see if it still receives RAs when this happens? The symptoms seem to possibly line up with Android issue #32662[4]. Possible you're being hit by that? > >The visible impact I see of it is slightly slow behavior of IPv6 enabled >apps/websites which take a few seconds, timeout and fallback to IPv4. > > > > >Thanks. > >> >> >> Only unusual thing I notice at that time is that phone 4 IPv6 as opposed >>> to 2 (autoconf and temporary randomised address). Seems like some kind of >>> issue in way NDP works either on Microtik or phone. The fix I am doing from >>> few days is to restart wifi and phone interface gets fresh (two) IPv6 >>> addresses and all works well >>> again. >>> >>> >>> >>> Anyone facing similar issue? (Note: No issues on OS X or iOS which are in >>> same LAN) >>> >>> >>> I can try DHCPv6 but I guess most of devices do not support it yet. (I see >>> support for that in routerboard though). >>> >>> >> Unless something's changed, DHCPv6 IA_NA isn't an option for getting an >> IPv6 address assigned to an Android device[1][2] >> >> >> >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> >>> Anurag Bhatia >>> anuragbhatia.com >>> >>> >>> PGP Key Fingerprint: 3115 677D 2E94 B696 651B 870C C06D D524 245E 58E2 >>> >> >> >> -- >> Hugo >> >> hugo at slabnet.com: email, xmpp/jabber >> PGP fingerprint (B178313E): >> CF18 15FA 9FE4 0CD1 2319 >> 1D77 9AB1 0FFD B178 313E >> >> [1] https://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=32621 >> [2] http://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2015-June/075915.html >> > > > >-- > > >Anurag Bhatia >anuragbhatia.com > > >PGP Key Fingerprint: 3115 677D 2E94 B696 651B 870C C06D D524 245E 58E2 -- Hugo hugo at slabnet.com: email, xmpp/jabber PGP fingerprint (B178313E): CF18 15FA 9FE4 0CD1 2319 1D77 9AB1 0FFD B178 313E (also on textsecure & redphone) [1] https://sites.google.com/site/androidarts/packet-sniffer (needs root) [2] https://www.kismetwireless.net/android-pcap/ (some limitations, but shouldn't need root) [3] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=lv.n3o.shark (needs root) [4] https://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=32662 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From matthias.flittner at gmail.com Thu Oct 1 16:20:45 2015 From: matthias.flittner at gmail.com (Matthias Flittner) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2015 18:20:45 +0200 Subject: wanted: tool for traffic generation / characteristics / monitoring Message-ID: <560D5D5D.6020907@gmail.com> Dear colleagues, Currently we are looking for a magic tool with which it is possible to generate specific (realistic) traffic patterns between client and server to analyze (monitor) traffic characteristics (jitter, delay, inter arrival times, etc.). It would be good if that wanted tool is not only able to generate different traffic patterns but also is able to collect different traffic metrics over time. So that it is possible to create catchy plots. :) Any hints or links would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. Best regards, -FliTTi From Daniel.Jameson at tdstelecom.com Thu Oct 1 16:38:04 2015 From: Daniel.Jameson at tdstelecom.com (Jameson, Daniel) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2015 16:38:04 +0000 Subject: wanted: tool for traffic generation / characteristics / monitoring In-Reply-To: <560D5D5D.6020907@gmail.com> References: <560D5D5D.6020907@gmail.com> Message-ID: How much traffic, and what data-points are you looking to describe? Is the environment a controlled/sealed lab world (No access to the InterWebs) -----Original Message----- From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces at nanog.org] On Behalf Of Matthias Flittner Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2015 11:21 AM To: nanog at nanog.org Subject: wanted: tool for traffic generation / characteristics / monitoring Dear colleagues, Currently we are looking for a magic tool with which it is possible to generate specific (realistic) traffic patterns between client and server to analyze (monitor) traffic characteristics (jitter, delay, inter arrival times, etc.). It would be good if that wanted tool is not only able to generate different traffic patterns but also is able to collect different traffic metrics over time. So that it is possible to create catchy plots. :) Any hints or links would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. Best regards, -FliTTi From plucena at coopergeneral.com Thu Oct 1 16:42:45 2015 From: plucena at coopergeneral.com (Pablo Lucena) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2015 12:42:45 -0400 Subject: wanted: tool for traffic generation / characteristics / monitoring In-Reply-To: <560D5D5D.6020907@gmail.com> References: <560D5D5D.6020907@gmail.com> Message-ID: Cisco has an IOS version called Pagent which allows you to craft whatever traffic types you want (you can even push MPLS labels on the packets if you want). I've used this in the past for generating client/server traffic flows and measuring stats on the flows. On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 12:20 PM, Matthias Flittner < matthias.flittner at gmail.com> wrote: > Dear colleagues, > > Currently we are looking for a magic tool with which it is possible to > generate specific (realistic) traffic patterns between client and server > to analyze (monitor) traffic characteristics (jitter, delay, inter > arrival times, etc.). > > It would be good if that wanted tool is not only able to generate > different traffic patterns but also is able to collect different traffic > metrics over time. So that it is possible to create catchy plots. :) > > Any hints or links would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks in advance. > > Best regards, > -FliTTi > > From dmr at ramseyfamily.org Thu Oct 1 16:47:14 2015 From: dmr at ramseyfamily.org (David Ramsey) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2015 12:47:14 -0400 Subject: wanted: tool for traffic generation / characteristics / monitoring In-Reply-To: References: <560D5D5D.6020907@gmail.com> Message-ID: You might also want to look at Ostinato (open source s/w) --dmr David Ramsey Charlotte, NC On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 12:42 PM, Pablo Lucena wrote: > Cisco has an IOS version called Pagent which allows you to craft whatever > traffic types you want (you can even push MPLS labels on the packets if you > want). I've used this in the past for generating client/server traffic > flows and measuring stats on the flows. > > On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 12:20 PM, Matthias Flittner < > matthias.flittner at gmail.com> wrote: > > > Dear colleagues, > > > > Currently we are looking for a magic tool with which it is possible to > > generate specific (realistic) traffic patterns between client and server > > to analyze (monitor) traffic characteristics (jitter, delay, inter > > arrival times, etc.). > > > > It would be good if that wanted tool is not only able to generate > > different traffic patterns but also is able to collect different traffic > > metrics over time. So that it is possible to create catchy plots. :) > > > > Any hints or links would be greatly appreciated. > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > Best regards, > > -FliTTi > > > > > From dave.taht at gmail.com Thu Oct 1 17:18:54 2015 From: dave.taht at gmail.com (Dave Taht) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2015 19:18:54 +0200 Subject: wanted: tool for traffic generation / characteristics / monitoring In-Reply-To: References: <560D5D5D.6020907@gmail.com> Message-ID: we use flent heavily in the bufferbloat project for creating traffic like this and analyzing the resulting jitter, latency, and buffering. https://www.flent.org/ On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 6:47 PM, David Ramsey wrote: > You might also want to look at Ostinato (open source s/w) > > --dmr > > David Ramsey > Charlotte, NC > > On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 12:42 PM, Pablo Lucena > wrote: > >> Cisco has an IOS version called Pagent which allows you to craft whatever >> traffic types you want (you can even push MPLS labels on the packets if you >> want). I've used this in the past for generating client/server traffic >> flows and measuring stats on the flows. >> >> On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 12:20 PM, Matthias Flittner < >> matthias.flittner at gmail.com> wrote: >> >> > Dear colleagues, >> > >> > Currently we are looking for a magic tool with which it is possible to >> > generate specific (realistic) traffic patterns between client and server >> > to analyze (monitor) traffic characteristics (jitter, delay, inter >> > arrival times, etc.). >> > >> > It would be good if that wanted tool is not only able to generate >> > different traffic patterns but also is able to collect different traffic >> > metrics over time. So that it is possible to create catchy plots. :) >> > >> > Any hints or links would be greatly appreciated. >> > >> > Thanks in advance. >> > >> > Best regards, >> > -FliTTi >> > >> > >> -- Dave T?ht Do you want faster, better, wifi? https://www.patreon.com/dtaht From Patrick.Darden at p66.com Thu Oct 1 17:36:09 2015 From: Patrick.Darden at p66.com (Darden, Patrick) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2015 17:36:09 +0000 Subject: wanted: tool for traffic generation / characteristics / monitoring In-Reply-To: <560D5D5D.6020907@gmail.com> References: <560D5D5D.6020907@gmail.com> Message-ID: <324defbc16364b85a86a7ed5028a6812@BRTEXMB02.phillips66.net> You can easily make one-way traffic patterns using nmap. You could use ping -A to do adaptive ping, or ping -f to flood, both of which would help you find out some simple metrics (dropped packets, intervals, pps, etc.). or You could use Expect to script some common functions, then just run them to generate traffic patterns (e.g. FTP/SFTP/Telnet/SplunkCLI). You could easily script some WGETs or the like as well for HTTP/HTTPS/FTP. Some of the resulting metrics would depend on the servers (how fast they are, how much load they have, etc.). or You could packet sniff some real traffic, then replay them with tcpreplay. This would work for a nework with one piece you were testing (one switch/router/firewall/etc.). --p -----Original Message----- From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces at nanog.org] On Behalf Of Matthias Flittner Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2015 11:21 AM To: nanog at nanog.org Subject: [EXTERNAL]wanted: tool for traffic generation / characteristics / monitoring Dear colleagues, Currently we are looking for a magic tool with which it is possible to generate specific (realistic) traffic patterns between client and server to analyze (monitor) traffic characteristics (jitter, delay, inter arrival times, etc.). It would be good if that wanted tool is not only able to generate different traffic patterns but also is able to collect different traffic metrics over time. So that it is possible to create catchy plots. :) Any hints or links would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. Best regards, -FliTTi From cb.list6 at gmail.com Thu Oct 1 18:12:08 2015 From: cb.list6 at gmail.com (Ca By) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2015 11:12:08 -0700 Subject: wanted: tool for traffic generation / characteristics / monitoring In-Reply-To: <560D5D5D.6020907@gmail.com> References: <560D5D5D.6020907@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 9:20 AM, Matthias Flittner < matthias.flittner at gmail.com> wrote: > Dear colleagues, > > Currently we are looking for a magic tool with which it is possible to > generate specific (realistic) traffic patterns between client and server > to analyze (monitor) traffic characteristics (jitter, delay, inter > arrival times, etc.). > > It would be good if that wanted tool is not only able to generate > different traffic patterns but also is able to collect different traffic > metrics over time. So that it is possible to create catchy plots. :) > > Any hints or links would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks in advance. > > Best regards, > -FliTTi > > By this this http://trex-tgn.cisco.com/ From listas at esds.com.br Thu Oct 1 18:28:11 2015 From: listas at esds.com.br (Eduardo Schoedler) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2015 15:28:11 -0300 Subject: wanted: tool for traffic generation / characteristics / monitoring In-Reply-To: <560D5D5D.6020907@gmail.com> References: <560D5D5D.6020907@gmail.com> Message-ID: Mikrotik Traffic-Gen? You can create a lot of packet templates. http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Manual:Performance_Testing_with_Traffic_Generator -- Eduardo Schoedler 2015-10-01 13:20 GMT-03:00 Matthias Flittner : > Dear colleagues, > > Currently we are looking for a magic tool with which it is possible to > generate specific (realistic) traffic patterns between client and server > to analyze (monitor) traffic characteristics (jitter, delay, inter > arrival times, etc.). > > It would be good if that wanted tool is not only able to generate > different traffic patterns but also is able to collect different traffic > metrics over time. So that it is possible to create catchy plots. :) > > Any hints or links would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks in advance. > > Best regards, > -FliTTi > -- Eduardo Schoedler From owen at delong.com Thu Oct 1 18:29:36 2015 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2015 11:29:36 -0700 Subject: How to force rapid ipv6 adoption In-Reply-To: References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> Message-ID: > On Oct 1, 2015, at 00:39 , Baldur Norddahl wrote: > > On 1 October 2015 at 03:26, Mark Andrews wrote: > >> Windows XP does IPv6 fine so long as there is a IPv4 recursive >> server available. It's just a simple command to install IPv6. >> >> netsh interface ipv6 install >> > > If the customer knew how to do that he wouldn't still be using Windows XP. > > >> Actually I don't expect Gmail and Facebook to be IPv4 only forever. >> > > Gmail and Facebook are already dual stack enabled. But I do not see > Facebook turning off IPv4 for a very long time. Therefore a customer that > only uses the Internet for a few basic things will be able to get along > with being IPv4-only for a very long time. > Yes and no? I think you are right about facebook. However, I think eventually the residential ISPs are going to start charging extra for IPv4 service. Some residences may pay for it initially, but if they think there?s a way to move away from it and the ISPs start fingerpointing to the specific laggards, you?ll see a groundswell of consumers pushing to find alternatives. Owen From mlm at pixelgate.net Thu Oct 1 18:31:44 2015 From: mlm at pixelgate.net (Mark Milhollan) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2015 11:31:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Routes leaked by AS393742 via AS16397 In-Reply-To: <20150930215922.GB21567@bamboo.slabnet.com> References: <20150930215922.GB21567@bamboo.slabnet.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Sep 2015, Hugo Slabbert wrote: >On Wed 2015-Sep-30 17:43:40 -0400, Robert Webb wrote: >>https://ipinfo.io/AS393742 > >...I'm so behind the times; my response would have been: > > $ finger 393742 at peeringdb.com Whois is often useful as well, not for peering info of course but that isn't what Marco would want to discuss ... $ whois as393742 [Querying whois.radb.net] [whois.radb.net] aut-num: AS393742 as-name: BIYORT-1 descr: Biyort USA Corporation admin-c: Biyort USA tech-c: Nerwork Biyort mnt-by: MAINT-AS393742 changed: network at biyort.com 20150316 #18:54:59Z source: RADB Sometimes my whois program is surprising. But that's fine and since it is Biyort USA, I'd also ask ARIN for info ... $ whois -h whois.arin.net as393742 [Querying whois.arin.net] [whois.arin.net] [...] OrgNOCHandle: NBNB3-ARIN OrgNOCName: NOC BIYORT, NOC BIYORT OrgNOCPhone: +1-305-824-9100 OrgNOCEmail: noc at biyort.net.uy OrgNOCRef: http://whois.arin.net/rest/poc/NBNB3-ARIN [...] /mark From matthias.flittner at kit.edu Thu Oct 1 13:41:23 2015 From: matthias.flittner at kit.edu (Matthias Flittner) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2015 15:41:23 +0200 Subject: wanted: tool for traffic generation / characteristics / monitoring Message-ID: <560D3803.7020603@kit.edu> Dear colleagues, Currently we are looking for a magic tool with which it is possible to generate specific (realistic) traffic patterns between client and server to analyze (monitor) traffic characteristics (jitter, delay, inter arrival times, etc.). It would be good if that wanted tool is not only able to generate different traffic patterns but also is able to collect different traffic metrics over time. So that it is possible to create catchy plots. :) Any hints or links would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. Best regards, -FliTTi -- Karlsruhe Institute of Technology (KIT) Institute of Telematics Matthias Flittner, M.Sc. Kaiserstr. 12 Building 20.20; Room 365 76131 Karlsruhe, Germany Phone: +49 721 608-46416 Fax: +49 721 608-46789 Mobile: +49 176 21940967 Email: matthias.flittner at kit.edu Web: http://www.kit.edu/ KIT ? University of the State of Baden-Wuerttemberg and National Research Center of the Helmholtz Associationwe From jkt at iix.net Thu Oct 1 16:47:57 2015 From: jkt at iix.net (Jay Turner) Date: Thu, 01 Oct 2015 16:47:57 +0000 Subject: wanted: tool for traffic generation / characteristics / monitoring In-Reply-To: References: <560D5D5D.6020907@gmail.com> Message-ID: Ostinato is an open source tool billed as "a reverse Wireshark" which might fit your needs. http://ostinato.org/ - jkt On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 9:44 AM Pablo Lucena wrote: > Cisco has an IOS version called Pagent which allows you to craft whatever > traffic types you want (you can even push MPLS labels on the packets if you > want). I've used this in the past for generating client/server traffic > flows and measuring stats on the flows. > > On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 12:20 PM, Matthias Flittner < > matthias.flittner at gmail.com> wrote: > > > Dear colleagues, > > > > Currently we are looking for a magic tool with which it is possible to > > generate specific (realistic) traffic patterns between client and server > > to analyze (monitor) traffic characteristics (jitter, delay, inter > > arrival times, etc.). > > > > It would be good if that wanted tool is not only able to generate > > different traffic patterns but also is able to collect different traffic > > metrics over time. So that it is possible to create catchy plots. :) > > > > Any hints or links would be greatly appreciated. > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > Best regards, > > -FliTTi > > > > > From jturner at iix.net Thu Oct 1 16:57:15 2015 From: jturner at iix.net (Jay Turner) Date: Thu, 01 Oct 2015 16:57:15 +0000 Subject: wanted: tool for traffic generation / characteristics / monitoring In-Reply-To: <560D5D5D.6020907@gmail.com> References: <560D5D5D.6020907@gmail.com> Message-ID: Ostinato is an open source tool billed as "a reverse Wireshark" which might fit your needs. http://ostinato.org/ - jkt -- Jay Turner, Director, CloudRouter DevOps, IIX Inc. Lead, CloudRouter Project ? jkt at iix.net ?: +1-919-633-0619 The information transmitted in this email, including any file attachments, is intended only for the person(s) or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you have received this email in error please notify us immediately and delete the message from your computer system. If you are not the intended recipient, you are notified that printing, disclosing, copying, or distributing this information is strictly prohibited. The sender cannot guarantee that this email or any attachment to it is free of malicious code. The sender accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. From cmaurand at xyonet.com Thu Oct 1 19:06:54 2015 From: cmaurand at xyonet.com (Curtis Maurand) Date: Thu, 01 Oct 2015 15:06:54 -0400 Subject: How to force rapid ipv6 adoption In-Reply-To: References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> Message-ID: <560D844E.9010308@xyonet.com> On 10/1/2015 2:29 PM, Owen DeLong wrote: >> On Oct 1, 2015, at 00:39 , Baldur Norddahl wrote: >> >> On 1 October 2015 at 03:26, Mark Andrews wrote: >> >>> Windows XP does IPv6 fine so long as there is a IPv4 recursive >>> server available. It's just a simple command to install IPv6. >>> >>> netsh interface ipv6 install >>> >> If the customer knew how to do that he wouldn't still be using Windows XP. >> >> >>> Actually I don't expect Gmail and Facebook to be IPv4 only forever. >>> >> Gmail and Facebook are already dual stack enabled. But I do not see >> Facebook turning off IPv4 for a very long time. Therefore a customer that >> only uses the Internet for a few basic things will be able to get along >> with being IPv4-only for a very long time. >> > Yes and no? > > I think you are right about facebook. > > However, I think eventually the residential ISPs are going to start charging extra > for IPv4 service. Some residences may pay for it initially, but if they think there?s a > way to move away from it and the ISPs start fingerpointing to the specific laggards, > you?ll see a groundswell of consumers pushing to find alternatives. > > Owen > ipv6 is going to force a lot of consumers to replace hardware. Worse, it's not easy to set up and get right as ipv4 is. --Curtis From bross at pobox.com Thu Oct 1 20:00:55 2015 From: bross at pobox.com (Brandon Ross) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2015 16:00:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Extra Fairmont Room Message-ID: I have one extra room at the Fairmont under the NANOG room block rate of CA$199/night. If you want it before I cancel it, let me know. First come, first served. -- Brandon Ross Yahoo & AIM: BrandonNRoss +1-404-635-6667 ICQ: 2269442 Skype: brandonross Schedule a meeting: http://www.doodle.com/bross From nanogml at Mail.DDoS-Mitigator.net Thu Oct 1 20:11:20 2015 From: nanogml at Mail.DDoS-Mitigator.net (alvin nanog) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2015 13:11:20 -0700 Subject: wanted: tool for traffic generation / characteristics / monitoring In-Reply-To: <560D3803.7020603@kit.edu> References: <560D3803.7020603@kit.edu> Message-ID: <20151001201119.GA27584@Mail.DDoS-Mitigator.net> hi matthias On 10/01/15 at 03:41pm, Matthias Flittner wrote: > Dear colleagues, > > Currently we are looking for a magic tool with which it is possible to > generate specific (realistic) traffic patterns between client and server > to analyze (monitor) traffic characteristics (jitter, delay, inter > arrival times, etc.). generating traffic and monitoring traffic is usually not done by the same apps .... there's hundreds of monitoring apps and hundreds of traffic generators delay is done very nicely by dummynet in FreeBSD or (untested by me ) with NS3 in linux i don't understand simulating jitter, but, one can always use "delay + random number" > It would be good if that wanted tool is not only able to generate > different traffic patterns if you want to play with the headers ... that'd imply playing with nmap/hping3/socat and dozens of other equivalent apps if you're just trying to flood the wire ... nc/socat/iperf etc > but also is able to collect different traffic > metrics over time. So that it is possible to create catchy plots. :) "what metrics" you want to collect and how to you want to see it would dictate which apps you'd be using - tcp queue/buffers - dropped packets - delays - retries - udp vs tcp vs icmp vs ... - stuff ... xmit/recv buffers in the hardware, default buffers in the OS and buffers in the software apps must all be tuned to the same gigE or 10gigE speeds otherwise, whacky stuff will happen for "catchy plots", you'd want gnuplot so you can (infinitely) zoom in into the section you want to see dot-by-dot for big picture ... netstat, ntop, (not much info) mrtg, etc, etc big list of apps Packet-Craft.net/Apps > Any hints or links would be greatly appreciated. if you're a proficient python'er, you'd probably like scapy which can do everything you'd need to customize any packet magic pixie dust alvin # # Packet-Craft.net/Apps # From bross at pobox.com Thu Oct 1 20:29:01 2015 From: bross at pobox.com (Brandon Ross) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2015 16:29:01 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Extra Fairmont Room In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The room is now spoken for. On Thu, 1 Oct 2015, Brandon Ross wrote: > I have one extra room at the Fairmont under the NANOG room block rate of > CA$199/night. If you want it before I cancel it, let me know. First come, > first served. > > -- Brandon Ross Yahoo & AIM: BrandonNRoss +1-404-635-6667 ICQ: 2269442 Skype: brandonross Schedule a meeting: http://www.doodle.com/bross From owen at delong.com Thu Oct 1 20:44:46 2015 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2015 13:44:46 -0700 Subject: How to force rapid ipv6 adoption In-Reply-To: <560D844E.9010308@xyonet.com> References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560D844E.9010308@xyonet.com> Message-ID: > On Oct 1, 2015, at 12:06 , Curtis Maurand wrote: > > > > On 10/1/2015 2:29 PM, Owen DeLong wrote: >>> On Oct 1, 2015, at 00:39 , Baldur Norddahl wrote: >>> >>> On 1 October 2015 at 03:26, Mark Andrews wrote: >>> >>>> Windows XP does IPv6 fine so long as there is a IPv4 recursive >>>> server available. It's just a simple command to install IPv6. >>>> >>>> netsh interface ipv6 install >>>> >>> If the customer knew how to do that he wouldn't still be using Windows XP. >>> >>> >>>> Actually I don't expect Gmail and Facebook to be IPv4 only forever. >>>> >>> Gmail and Facebook are already dual stack enabled. But I do not see >>> Facebook turning off IPv4 for a very long time. Therefore a customer that >>> only uses the Internet for a few basic things will be able to get along >>> with being IPv4-only for a very long time. >>> >> Yes and no? >> >> I think you are right about facebook. >> >> However, I think eventually the residential ISPs are going to start charging extra >> for IPv4 service. Some residences may pay for it initially, but if they think there?s a >> way to move away from it and the ISPs start fingerpointing to the specific laggards, >> you?ll see a groundswell of consumers pushing to find alternatives. >> >> Owen >> > ipv6 is going to force a lot of consumers to replace hardware. Worse, it's not easy to set up and get right as ipv4 is. > > --Curtis You?re going to have to elaborate on that one?. I think IPv6 is actually quite a bit easier than IPv4, so please explicate in what ways it is harder to set up and get right? For the average household, it?s plug the IPv6-capable router in and let it go. For more advanced environments, it might take nearly as much effort as IPv4 and the unfamiliarity might add a couple of additional challenges the first time, but once you get past that, IPv6 has a lot of features that actually make it easier than IPv4. Not having to deal with NAT being just one of the big ones. Owen From Grzegorz at Janoszka.pl Thu Oct 1 20:55:44 2015 From: Grzegorz at Janoszka.pl (Grzegorz Janoszka) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2015 22:55:44 +0200 Subject: How to force rapid ipv6 adoption In-Reply-To: References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> Message-ID: <560D9DD0.2030904@Janoszka.pl> On 2015-10-01 20:29, Owen DeLong wrote: > However, I think eventually the residential ISPs are going to start charging extra > for IPv4 service. ISP's will not charge too much. With too expensive IPv4 many customers will migrate from v4/dual stack to v6-only and ISP's will be left with unused IPv4 addresses and less income. Will ISP's still find other profitable usage for v4 addresses? If not, they will be probably be quite slowly rising IPv4 pricing, not wanting to overprice it. Even with $1/IPv4/month - what will be the ROI of a brand new home router? -- Grzegorz Janoszka From ggiesen+nanog at giesen.me Thu Oct 1 21:09:59 2015 From: ggiesen+nanog at giesen.me (Gary T. Giesen) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2015 17:09:59 -0400 Subject: gmail admins? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0dc701d0fc8d$886d7f10$99487d30$@giesen.me> Bill I ran into this same issue some time ago. I had to move my mail off of Gmail for the same reason. In my case it was on a shared box with people who were not forwarding to Gmail and was causing issues for them sending to Gmail. Gmail really needs a "this server is forwarding email to me" setting. Cheers, GTG > -----Original Message----- > From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces at nanog.org] On Behalf Of William > Herrin > Sent: October 1, 2015 8:26 AM > To: nanog at nanog.org > Subject: gmail admins? > > Howdy, > > Any gmail admins out there? I forward email addressed to me to a gmail > account. Overnight you started returning: > > ----- Transcript of session follows ----- ... while talking to gmail-smtp- > in.l.google.com.: > >>> DATA > <<< 550 5.7.1 [IR] Our system has detected an excessively high number of > invalid recipients originating from your account. Contact your service > provider for sup port > 554 5.0.0 Service unavailable > > There were not temporary failures, you jumped straight to permanent > failures. Emails were about 90% to my own gmail account, a total of about 80 > over 12 hours. > > Fix your damn algorithm. > > And of course I have to complain publicly because you don't accept trouble > reports privately, instead sending people into useless dead-end automated > help systems. > > Thanks, > Bill Herrin > > > -- > William Herrin ................ herrin at dirtside.com bill at herrin.us Owner, > Dirtside Systems ......... Web: From johnl at iecc.com Thu Oct 1 21:14:11 2015 From: johnl at iecc.com (John Levine) Date: 1 Oct 2015 21:14:11 -0000 Subject: gmail admins? In-Reply-To: <0dc701d0fc8d$886d7f10$99487d30$@giesen.me> Message-ID: <20151001211411.91437.qmail@ary.lan> >Gmail really needs a "this server is forwarding email to me" setting. That's what the "pick up mail using POP" feature is for. It works a lot better. I've tried a kludge where I run all of the mail to be forwarded through spamassassin, forward the stuff with squeakly clean low scores, and locally deliver the iffy stuff to be picked up by Gmail's POP client. R's, John From owen at delong.com Thu Oct 1 21:51:53 2015 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2015 14:51:53 -0700 Subject: How to force rapid ipv6 adoption In-Reply-To: <560D9DD0.2030904@Janoszka.pl> References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560D9DD0.2030904@Janoszka.pl> Message-ID: <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE@delong.com> > On Oct 1, 2015, at 13:55 , Grzegorz Janoszka wrote: > > On 2015-10-01 20:29, Owen DeLong wrote: >> However, I think eventually the residential ISPs are going to start charging extra >> for IPv4 service. > > ISP's will not charge too much. With too expensive IPv4 many customers will migrate from v4/dual stack to v6-only and ISP's will be left with unused IPv4 addresses and less income. Nope? They?ll be left with unused IPv4 addresses which is not a significant source of income and they?ll be able to significantly reduce the costs incurred in supporting things like CGNAT. > Will ISP's still find other profitable usage for v4 addresses? If not, they will be probably be quite slowly rising IPv4 pricing, not wanting to overprice it. Probably they will sell it to business customers instead of the residential customers. However, we?re talking about relatively large numbers of customers for relatively small numbers of IPv4 addresses that aren?t producing revenue directly at this time anyway. > Even with $1/IPv4/month - what will be the ROI of a brand new home router? About 2.5 years at that price since a brand new home router is about $29. Owen From jungleboogie0 at gmail.com Thu Oct 1 22:00:23 2015 From: jungleboogie0 at gmail.com (jungle Boogie) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2015 15:00:23 -0700 Subject: How to force rapid ipv6 adoption In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 29 September 2015 at 13:37, David Hubbard wrote: > Had an idea the other day; we just need someone with a lot of cash > (google, apple, etc) to buy Netflix and then make all new releases > v6-only for the first 48 hours. I bet my lame Brighthouse and Fios > service would be v6-enabled before the end of the following week lol. Let's just put less stuff on the internet and revert pre-internet days. -- ------- inum: 883510009027723 sip: jungleboogie at sip2sip.info xmpp: jungle-boogie at jit.si From marka at isc.org Thu Oct 1 22:28:13 2015 From: marka at isc.org (Mark Andrews) Date: Fri, 02 Oct 2015 08:28:13 +1000 Subject: How to force rapid ipv6 adoption In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 01 Oct 2015 14:51:53 -0700." <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE@delong.com> References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560D9DD0.2030904@Janoszka.pl> <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE@delong.com> Message-ID: <20151001222813.B9469391102B@rock.dv.isc.org> In message <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE at delong.com>, Owen DeLong writes: > > > On Oct 1, 2015, at 13:55 , Grzegorz Janoszka > wrote: > > > > On 2015-10-01 20:29, Owen DeLong wrote: > >> However, I think eventually the residential ISPs are going to start > charging extra > >> for IPv4 service. > > > > ISP's will not charge too much. With too expensive IPv4 many customers > will migrate from v4/dual stack to v6-only and ISP's will be left with > unused IPv4 addresses and less income. > > Nope??? They???ll be left with unused IPv4 addresses which is not a > significant source of income and they???ll be able to significantly reduce > the costs incurred > in supporting things like CGNAT. > > > Will ISP's still find other profitable usage for v4 addresses? If not, > they will be probably be quite slowly rising IPv4 pricing, not wanting to > overprice it. > > Probably they will sell it to business customers instead of the > residential customers. However, we???re talking about relatively large > numbers of customers > for relatively small numbers of IPv4 addresses that aren???t producing > revenue directly at this time anyway. > > > Even with $1/IPv4/month - what will be the ROI of a brand new home > router? > > About 2.5 years at that price since a brand new home router is about $29. > > Owen The hard part is the internet connected TV's and other stuff which fetches content over the internet which are IPv4 only despite being released when IPv6 existed. These are theoretically upgradable to support IPv6 so long as the manufactures release a IPv6 capable image. The real question is will governments force them to do this. Upgrading the router is a no brainer. Upgrading the TV, games consoles, e-readers, etc. starts to add up. Mark -- Mark Andrews, ISC 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: marka at isc.org From toddunder at gmail.com Thu Oct 1 22:42:57 2015 From: toddunder at gmail.com (Todd Underwood) Date: Thu, 01 Oct 2015 22:42:57 +0000 Subject: How to force rapid ipv6 adoption In-Reply-To: <20151001222813.B9469391102B@rock.dv.isc.org> References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560D9DD0.2030904@Janoszka.pl> <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE@delong.com> <20151001222813.B9469391102B@rock.dv.isc.org> Message-ID: i'm still confused, to be honest. why are we 'encouraging' 'evangelizing' or 'forcing' ipv6 adoption. it's just a new addressing protocol that happens to not work with the rest of the internet. it's unfortunate that we made that mistake, but i guess we're stuck with that now (i wish i could say something about lessons learned but i don't think any one of us has learned a lesson yet). so people will renumber their network assets into this new network namespace when either: 1) the new non-internet ipv6 network has enough good stuff only on it that it makes sense to go over there; or 2) the old ipv4 internet addresses get so expensive that ain't no one willing to pay. right now, neither of those things are true. so people who are adopting ipv6 are doing so for two reason: A) blind, unmotivated religious reasons. they "believe" in this new protocol and have somehow managed to tie their identity up in it. (this is clearly a mistake for an engineer: technology comes and goes. don't ever tie your identity up in some technology or you'll end up advocating DECNET for the cloud at some point. it won't be pretty). B) strategic reasons. there are people who think that switching costs are going to be high and that there's an advantage to moving earlier to be ready for coming demand when #1 or #2 above happen. unlike A, B is completely rational and smart. it might be wrong, but it's not stupid at all. put mike leber and HE in this B category. the only reason people are *advocating* ipv6 right now are that they've made a religious choice, which is weird and should be a personal, not public choice unless they are great commission ipv6 adherants [1], *or* they have a vested interest in getting your business. the first reason is religion and is off-topic for nanog and the second reason is marketing (however well intentioned) and should also be off topic for nanog. so can we stop talking about ipv6 advocacy and move on to the network engineering topics, please? if someone is running ipv6 for whatever reason and has questions, awesome. if someone wants to talk about addressing schemes, awesome. but trying to convince someone to run LAT^H^H^Hipv6 or whatever disconnected network protocol they're advocating today? not useful. cheers, t On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 6:32 PM Mark Andrews wrote: > > In message <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE at delong.com>, Owen DeLong > writes: > > > > > On Oct 1, 2015, at 13:55 , Grzegorz Janoszka > > wrote: > > > > > > On 2015-10-01 20:29, Owen DeLong wrote: > > >> However, I think eventually the residential ISPs are going to start > > charging extra > > >> for IPv4 service. > > > > > > ISP's will not charge too much. With too expensive IPv4 many customers > > will migrate from v4/dual stack to v6-only and ISP's will be left with > > unused IPv4 addresses and less income. > > > > Nope? They?ll be left with unused IPv4 addresses which is not a > > significant source of income and they?ll be able to significantly reduce > > the costs incurred > > in supporting things like CGNAT. > > > > > Will ISP's still find other profitable usage for v4 addresses? If not, > > they will be probably be quite slowly rising IPv4 pricing, not wanting to > > overprice it. > > > > Probably they will sell it to business customers instead of the > > residential customers. However, we?re talking about relatively large > > numbers of customers > > for relatively small numbers of IPv4 addresses that aren?t producing > > revenue directly at this time anyway. > > > > > Even with $1/IPv4/month - what will be the ROI of a brand new home > > router? > > > > About 2.5 years at that price since a brand new home router is about $29. > > > > Owen > > The hard part is the internet connected TV's and other stuff which > fetches content over the internet which are IPv4 only despite being > released when IPv6 existed. These are theoretically upgradable to > support IPv6 so long as the manufactures release a IPv6 capable > image. The real question is will governments force them to do this. > > Upgrading the router is a no brainer. Upgrading the TV, games > consoles, e-readers, etc. starts to add up. > > Mark > -- > Mark Andrews, ISC > 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia > PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: marka at isc.org > From cra at WPI.EDU Thu Oct 1 22:45:05 2015 From: cra at WPI.EDU (Chuck Anderson) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2015 18:45:05 -0400 Subject: How to force rapid ipv6 adoption In-Reply-To: <20151001222813.B9469391102B@rock.dv.isc.org> References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560D9DD0.2030904@Janoszka.pl> <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE@delong.com> <20151001222813.B9469391102B@rock.dv.isc.org> Message-ID: <20151001224505.GP28552@angus.ind.WPI.EDU> On Fri, Oct 02, 2015 at 08:28:13AM +1000, Mark Andrews wrote: > > In message <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE at delong.com>, Owen DeLong writes: > > > > > On Oct 1, 2015, at 13:55 , Grzegorz Janoszka > > wrote: > > > > > > On 2015-10-01 20:29, Owen DeLong wrote: > > >> However, I think eventually the residential ISPs are going to start > > charging extra > > >> for IPv4 service. > > > > > > ISP's will not charge too much. With too expensive IPv4 many customers > > will migrate from v4/dual stack to v6-only and ISP's will be left with > > unused IPv4 addresses and less income. > > > > Nope? They?ll be left with unused IPv4 addresses which is not a > > significant source of income and they?ll be able to significantly reduce > > the costs incurred > > in supporting things like CGNAT. > > > > > Will ISP's still find other profitable usage for v4 addresses? If not, > > they will be probably be quite slowly rising IPv4 pricing, not wanting to > > overprice it. > > > > Probably they will sell it to business customers instead of the > > residential customers. However, we?re talking about relatively large > > numbers of customers > > for relatively small numbers of IPv4 addresses that aren?t producing > > revenue directly at this time anyway. > > > > > Even with $1/IPv4/month - what will be the ROI of a brand new home > > router? > > > > About 2.5 years at that price since a brand new home router is about $29. > > > > Owen > > The hard part is the internet connected TV's and other stuff which > fetches content over the internet which are IPv4 only despite being > released when IPv6 existed. These are theoretically upgradable to > support IPv6 so long as the manufactures release a IPv6 capable > image. The real question is will governments force them to do this. > > Upgrading the router is a no brainer. Upgrading the TV, games > consoles, e-readers, etc. starts to add up. Just brand it as the new "6-D" TV with "128 bits of goodness to outperform your obsolete 32 bit TV!". Then people will flock to the stores to upgrade... From owen at delong.com Thu Oct 1 23:01:47 2015 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2015 16:01:47 -0700 Subject: How to force rapid ipv6 adoption In-Reply-To: <20151001222813.B9469391102B@rock.dv.isc.org> References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560D9DD0.2030904@Janoszka.pl> <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE@delong.com> <20151001222813.B9469391102B@rock.dv.isc.org> Message-ID: > On Oct 1, 2015, at 15:28 , Mark Andrews wrote: > > > In message <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE at delong.com>, Owen DeLong writes: >> >>> On Oct 1, 2015, at 13:55 , Grzegorz Janoszka >> wrote: >>> >>> On 2015-10-01 20:29, Owen DeLong wrote: >>>> However, I think eventually the residential ISPs are going to start >> charging extra >>>> for IPv4 service. >>> >>> ISP's will not charge too much. With too expensive IPv4 many customers >> will migrate from v4/dual stack to v6-only and ISP's will be left with >> unused IPv4 addresses and less income. >> >> Nope? They?ll be left with unused IPv4 addresses which is not a >> significant source of income and they?ll be able to significantly reduce >> the costs incurred >> in supporting things like CGNAT. >> >>> Will ISP's still find other profitable usage for v4 addresses? If not, >> they will be probably be quite slowly rising IPv4 pricing, not wanting to >> overprice it. >> >> Probably they will sell it to business customers instead of the >> residential customers. However, we?re talking about relatively large >> numbers of customers >> for relatively small numbers of IPv4 addresses that aren?t producing >> revenue directly at this time anyway. >> >>> Even with $1/IPv4/month - what will be the ROI of a brand new home >> router? >> >> About 2.5 years at that price since a brand new home router is about $29. >> >> Owen > > The hard part is the internet connected TV's and other stuff which > fetches content over the internet which are IPv4 only despite being > released when IPv6 existed. These are theoretically upgradable to > support IPv6 so long as the manufactures release a IPv6 capable > image. The real question is will governments force them to do this. Governments are unlikely to force this issue. However, what I think will happen (and I wish I had the hardware skills to build the device) is that someone will come up with a compact, cheap (think price of Raspberry PI) device with two 100Mbps ethernet ports. One will be an RJ45 plug and the other will be a socket. The socket will support POE for powering the device. The device will have a small linux kernel and provide DNS64/DHCP4/NAT64 services to the RJ45 plug and the jack will connect to the IPv6-only port in the house. The software is already completely available as open source. There?s a tiny bit of integration to do. If you do this for IPv6-capable services on the outside and don?t need to connect to IPv4 laggards, this is a relatively simple solution. If you need to preserve IPv4 connectivity to the outside world, it gets a little more complicated, but not a lot. > Upgrading the router is a no brainer. Upgrading the TV, games > consoles, e-readers, etc. starts to add up. I?m betting that if someone offered the device I suggested above for a price point around $40 (add a small amount of money for a cheap POE injector if needed), it would do the trick. Owen From beckman at angryox.com Thu Oct 1 23:12:16 2015 From: beckman at angryox.com (Peter Beckman) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2015 19:12:16 -0400 Subject: How to force rapid ipv6 adoption In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: That reminds me of a story. Once a teacher gave each of his students a tube of toothpaste. He said "Squeeze all of the toothpaste out of the tube on to your desk." The kids laughed and did it, making a giant mess and having a ball. When things settled down, the teacher said "Now put all of the toothpaste back into the tube." The kids fell silent. A few of them even tried the futile task. Then the teacher said "The toothpaste is the Internet. Once it's deployed, it is nearly impossible to put it back the way it was."* Beckman * OK, the teacher said "The toothpaste are your words. Once they come out, you can't put them back in." Or something. My storytelling skills need work. On Thu, 1 Oct 2015, jungle Boogie wrote: > On 29 September 2015 at 13:37, David Hubbard > wrote: >> Had an idea the other day; we just need someone with a lot of cash >> (google, apple, etc) to buy Netflix and then make all new releases >> v6-only for the first 48 hours. I bet my lame Brighthouse and Fios >> service would be v6-enabled before the end of the following week lol. > > Let's just put less stuff on the internet and revert pre-internet days. > > > -- > ------- > inum: 883510009027723 > sip: jungleboogie at sip2sip.info > xmpp: jungle-boogie at jit.si > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Peter Beckman Internet Guy beckman at angryox.com http://www.angryox.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From mcn4 at leicester.ac.uk Thu Oct 1 23:26:13 2015 From: mcn4 at leicester.ac.uk (Matthew Newton) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 00:26:13 +0100 Subject: How to force rapid ipv6 adoption In-Reply-To: References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560D9DD0.2030904@Janoszka.pl> <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE@delong.com> <20151001222813.B9469391102B@rock.dv.isc.org> Message-ID: <20151001232613.GD123100@rootmail.cc.le.ac.uk> On Thu, Oct 01, 2015 at 10:42:57PM +0000, Todd Underwood wrote: > it's just a new addressing protocol that happens to not work with the rest > of the internet. it's unfortunate that we made that mistake, but i guess > we're stuck with that now (i wish i could say something about lessons > learned but i don't think any one of us has learned a lesson yet). Would be really interesting to know how you would propose squeezing 128 bits of address data into a 32 bit field so that we could all continue to use IPv4 with more addresses than it's has available to save having to move to this new incompatible format. :-) Matthew -- Matthew Newton, Ph.D. Systems Specialist, Infrastructure Services, I.T. Services, University of Leicester, Leicester LE1 7RH, United Kingdom For IT help contact helpdesk extn. 2253, From toddunder at gmail.com Thu Oct 1 23:52:31 2015 From: toddunder at gmail.com (Todd Underwood) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2015 19:52:31 -0400 Subject: How to force rapid ipv6 adoption In-Reply-To: <20151001232613.GD123100@rootmail.cc.le.ac.uk> References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560D9DD0.2030904@Janoszka.pl> <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE@delong.com> <20151001222813.B9469391102B@rock.dv.isc.org> <20151001232613.GD123100@rootmail.cc.le.ac.uk> Message-ID: I can't tell if this question is serious. It's either making fun of the embarrassingly inadequate job we have done on this transition out it's naive and ignorant in a genius way. Read the asn32 migration docs for one that migrations like this can be properly done. This was harder but not impossible. We just chose badly for decades and now we have NAT *and* a dumb migration. Oh well. T On Oct 1, 2015 19:26, "Matthew Newton" wrote: > On Thu, Oct 01, 2015 at 10:42:57PM +0000, Todd Underwood wrote: > > it's just a new addressing protocol that happens to not work with the > rest > > of the internet. it's unfortunate that we made that mistake, but i guess > > we're stuck with that now (i wish i could say something about lessons > > learned but i don't think any one of us has learned a lesson yet). > > Would be really interesting to know how you would propose > squeezing 128 bits of address data into a 32 bit field so that we > could all continue to use IPv4 with more addresses than it's has > available to save having to move to this new incompatible format. > > :-) > > Matthew > > > -- > Matthew Newton, Ph.D. > > Systems Specialist, Infrastructure Services, > I.T. Services, University of Leicester, Leicester LE1 7RH, United Kingdom > > For IT help contact helpdesk extn. 2253, > From marka at isc.org Fri Oct 2 00:01:25 2015 From: marka at isc.org (Mark Andrews) Date: Fri, 02 Oct 2015 10:01:25 +1000 Subject: How to force rapid ipv6 adoption In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 02 Oct 2015 00:26:13 +0100." <20151001232613.GD123100@rootmail.cc.le.ac.uk> References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560D9DD0.2030904@Janoszka.pl> <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE@delong.com> <20151001222813.B9469391102B@rock.dv.isc.org> <20151001232613.GD123100@rootmail.cc.le.ac.uk> Message-ID: <20151002000125.9CD573911EF5@rock.dv.isc.org> In message <20151001232613.GD123100 at rootmail.cc.le.ac.uk>, Matthew Newton writes: > On Thu, Oct 01, 2015 at 10:42:57PM +0000, Todd Underwood wrote: > > it's just a new addressing protocol that happens to not work with the rest > > of the internet. it's unfortunate that we made that mistake, but i guess > > we're stuck with that now (i wish i could say something about lessons > > learned but i don't think any one of us has learned a lesson yet). > > Would be really interesting to know how you would propose > squeezing 128 bits of address data into a 32 bit field so that we > could all continue to use IPv4 with more addresses than it's has > available to save having to move to this new incompatible format. > > :-) > > Matthew Additionally it is now a OLD addressing protocol. We are about to see young adults that have never lived in a world without IPv6. It may not have been universally available when they were born but it was available. There are definitely school leavers that have never lived in a world where IPv6 did not exist. My daughter will be one of them next year when she finishes year 12. IPv6 is 7 months older than she is. Some of us have been running IPv6 in production for over a decade now and developing products that support IPv6 even longer. We have had 17 years to build up a universal IPv6 network. It should have been done by now. Mark > -- > Matthew Newton, Ph.D. > > Systems Specialist, Infrastructure Services, > I.T. Services, University of Leicester, Leicester LE1 7RH, United Kingdom > > For IT help contact helpdesk extn. 2253, -- Mark Andrews, ISC 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: marka at isc.org From cb.list6 at gmail.com Fri Oct 2 00:16:02 2015 From: cb.list6 at gmail.com (Ca By) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2015 17:16:02 -0700 Subject: How to force rapid ipv6 adoption In-Reply-To: References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560D9DD0.2030904@Janoszka.pl> <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE@delong.com> <20151001222813.B9469391102B@rock.dv.isc.org> Message-ID: On Thursday, October 1, 2015, Todd Underwood wrote: > i'm still confused, to be honest. > > why are we 'encouraging' 'evangelizing' or 'forcing' ipv6 adoption. > > it's just a new addressing protocol that happens to not work with the rest > of the internet. it's unfortunate that we made that mistake, but i guess > we're stuck with that now (i wish i could say something about lessons > learned but i don't think any one of us has learned a lesson yet). > > so people will renumber their network assets into this new network > namespace when either: > > 1) the new non-internet ipv6 network has enough good stuff only on it that > it makes sense to go over there; or > > 2) the old ipv4 internet addresses get so expensive that ain't no one > willing to pay. > > right now, neither of those things are true. so people who are adopting > ipv6 are doing so for two reason: > > A) blind, unmotivated religious reasons. they "believe" in this new > protocol and have somehow managed to tie their identity up in it. (this is > clearly a mistake for an engineer: technology comes and goes. don't ever > tie your identity up in some technology or you'll end up advocating DECNET > for the cloud at some point. it won't be pretty). > > B) strategic reasons. there are people who think that switching costs are > going to be high and that there's an advantage to moving earlier to be > ready for coming demand when #1 or #2 above happen. unlike A, B is > completely rational and smart. it might be wrong, but it's not stupid at > all. put mike leber and HE in this B category. > > the only reason people are *advocating* ipv6 right now are that they've > made a religious choice, which is weird and should be a personal, not > public choice unless they are great commission ipv6 adherants [1], *or* > they have a vested interest in getting your business. > > I run a large 464xlat dominated mobile network. IPv4 bits are materially more expensive to deliver. And, as FB has shared, IPv6 is more performant for end users, and more performant is more profitable > the first reason is religion and is off-topic for nanog and the second > reason is marketing (however well intentioned) and should also be off topic > for nanog. > > so can we stop talking about ipv6 advocacy and move on to the network > engineering topics, please? if someone is running ipv6 for whatever reason > and has questions, awesome. if someone wants to talk about addressing > schemes, awesome. but trying to convince someone to run LAT^H^H^Hipv6 or > whatever disconnected network protocol they're advocating today? not > useful. > > cheers, > > t > > > > On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 6:32 PM Mark Andrews > > wrote: > > > > > In message <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE at delong.com > >, Owen DeLong > > writes: > > > > > > > On Oct 1, 2015, at 13:55 , Grzegorz Janoszka > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > On 2015-10-01 20:29, Owen DeLong wrote: > > > >> However, I think eventually the residential ISPs are going to start > > > charging extra > > > >> for IPv4 service. > > > > > > > > ISP's will not charge too much. With too expensive IPv4 many > customers > > > will migrate from v4/dual stack to v6-only and ISP's will be left with > > > unused IPv4 addresses and less income. > > > > > > Nope? They?ll be left with unused IPv4 addresses which is not a > > > significant source of income and they?ll be able to significantly > reduce > > > the costs incurred > > > in supporting things like CGNAT. > > > > > > > Will ISP's still find other profitable usage for v4 addresses? If > not, > > > they will be probably be quite slowly rising IPv4 pricing, not wanting > to > > > overprice it. > > > > > > Probably they will sell it to business customers instead of the > > > residential customers. However, we?re talking about relatively large > > > numbers of customers > > > for relatively small numbers of IPv4 addresses that aren?t producing > > > revenue directly at this time anyway. > > > > > > > Even with $1/IPv4/month - what will be the ROI of a brand new home > > > router? > > > > > > About 2.5 years at that price since a brand new home router is about > $29. > > > > > > Owen > > > > The hard part is the internet connected TV's and other stuff which > > fetches content over the internet which are IPv4 only despite being > > released when IPv6 existed. These are theoretically upgradable to > > support IPv6 so long as the manufactures release a IPv6 capable > > image. The real question is will governments force them to do this. > > > > Upgrading the router is a no brainer. Upgrading the TV, games > > consoles, e-readers, etc. starts to add up. > > > > Mark > > -- > > Mark Andrews, ISC > > 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia > > PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: marka at isc.org > > > > From toddunder at gmail.com Fri Oct 2 00:16:50 2015 From: toddunder at gmail.com (Todd Underwood) Date: Fri, 02 Oct 2015 00:16:50 +0000 Subject: How to force rapid ipv6 adoption In-Reply-To: <20151002000125.9CD573911EF5@rock.dv.isc.org> References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560D9DD0.2030904@Janoszka.pl> <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE@delong.com> <20151001222813.B9469391102B@rock.dv.isc.org> <20151001232613.GD123100@rootmail.cc.le.ac.uk> <20151002000125.9CD573911EF5@rock.dv.isc.org> Message-ID: one interesting thing to note... On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 8:01 PM Mark Andrews wrote: > > Some of us have been running IPv6 in production for over a decade > now and developing products that support IPv6 even longer. > > We have had 17 years to build up a universal IPv6 network. It > should have been done by now. > yes. huh. funny about that, right? what do you think accounts for that? *why* do you think that *17* *years* later people are still just barely using this thing. i have a theory. i may have already mentioned that "dual stack and ipv4 will wither away by itself" turns out to have been a dumb idea that didn't happen. and there was no migration path other than that, really. so v6 and v4 don't interoperate as designed and that was an afterthought that didn't really happen until recently (and in a way that's still arguably more complex than NAT). and here we are. so here's my view: if you have some technical solution for a networking problem that no one wants for 17 years, you should really probably think about that. you might not even have to wait 17 years to figure out that something might be wrong. most good stuff is adopted without "evangelism". t > Mark > > > -- > > Matthew Newton, Ph.D. > > > > Systems Specialist, Infrastructure Services, > > I.T. Services, University of Leicester, Leicester LE1 7RH, United Kingdom > > > > For IT help contact helpdesk extn. 2253, > -- > Mark Andrews, ISC > 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia > PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: marka at isc.org > From marka at isc.org Fri Oct 2 00:30:46 2015 From: marka at isc.org (Mark Andrews) Date: Fri, 02 Oct 2015 10:30:46 +1000 Subject: How to force rapid ipv6 adoption In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 01 Oct 2015 19:52:31 -0400." References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560D9DD0.2030904@Janoszka.pl> <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE@delong.com> <20151001222813.B9469391102B@rock.dv.isc.org> <20151001232613.GD123100@rootmail.cc.le.ac.uk> Message-ID: <20151002003046.466B539120F9@rock.dv.isc.org> In message , Todd Underwood writes: > I can't tell if this question is serious. It's either making fun of the > embarrassingly inadequate job we have done on this transition out it's > naive and ignorant in a genius way. > > Read the asn32 migration docs for one that migrations like this can be > properly done. > > This was harder but not impossible. We just chose badly for decades and now > we have NAT *and* a dumb migration. > > Oh well. > > T That sounds like only using 6to4 addresses until the entire internet supports IPv6. Unfortunately there were NEVER enough IPv4 addresses to actually do that. We were effectively out of IPv4 addresses before we started. Add to that no one wanted to run 6to4 relays. For the asn32 strategy to work every IPv6 capable router needed to be a 6to4 relay and to perform encapsulation / decapsulation depending upon whether the next hop supported IPv6 or not. Mark > On Oct 1, 2015 19:26, "Matthew Newton" wrote: > > > On Thu, Oct 01, 2015 at 10:42:57PM +0000, Todd Underwood wrote: > > > it's just a new addressing protocol that happens to not work with the > > rest > > > of the internet. it's unfortunate that we made that mistake, but i guess > > > we're stuck with that now (i wish i could say something about lessons > > > learned but i don't think any one of us has learned a lesson yet). > > > > Would be really interesting to know how you would propose > > squeezing 128 bits of address data into a 32 bit field so that we > > could all continue to use IPv4 with more addresses than it's has > > available to save having to move to this new incompatible format. > > > > :-) > > > > Matthew > > > > > > -- > > Matthew Newton, Ph.D. > > > > Systems Specialist, Infrastructure Services, > > I.T. Services, University of Leicester, Leicester LE1 7RH, United Kingdom > > > > For IT help contact helpdesk extn. 2253, > > -- Mark Andrews, ISC 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: marka at isc.org From tony at wicks.co.nz Fri Oct 2 00:45:22 2015 From: tony at wicks.co.nz (Tony Wicks) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 13:45:22 +1300 Subject: How to force rapid ipv6 adoption In-Reply-To: <20151002003046.466B539120F9@rock.dv.isc.org> References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560D9DD0.2030904@Janoszka.pl> <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE@delong.com> <20151001222813.B9469391102B@rock.dv.isc.org> <20151001232613.GD123100@rootmail.cc.le.ac.uk> <20151002003046.466B539120F9@rock.dv.isc.org> Message-ID: <007401d0fcab$9f6f40e0$de4dc2a0$@wicks.co.nz> > > That sounds like only using 6to4 addresses until the entire internet supports IPv6. > Unfortunately there were NEVER enough IPv4 addresses to actually do that. We > were effectively out of IPv4 addresses before we started. > People tend to forget that TCP/IP was not the only routing protocol out there all those years ago. What if OSI or one of the others had prospered instead ? IPv4 kind of morphed into the Internet as we know it more it more from good luck than good planning I would say. Things could have been a lot worse ! To name a few - IPX, X25, Banyan Vines, DECnet and even Appletalk! Ovbiously many of these could not grow into the "internet" but..... From marka at isc.org Fri Oct 2 00:47:21 2015 From: marka at isc.org (Mark Andrews) Date: Fri, 02 Oct 2015 10:47:21 +1000 Subject: How to force rapid ipv6 adoption In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 02 Oct 2015 00:16:50 +0000." References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560D9DD0.2030904@Janoszka.pl> <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE@delong.com> <20151001222813.B9469391102B@rock.dv.isc.org> <20151001232613.GD123100@rootmail.cc.le.ac.uk> <20151002000125.9CD573911EF5@rock.dv.isc.org> Message-ID: <20151002004721.3CE8E3912465@rock.dv.isc.org> In message , Todd Underwood writes: > > one interesting thing to note... > > On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 8:01 PM Mark Andrews wrote: > > > > > Some of us have been running IPv6 in production for over a decade > > now and developing products that support IPv6 even longer. > > > > We have had 17 years to build up a universal IPv6 network. It > > should have been done by now. > > > > yes. huh. funny about that, right? what do you think accounts for that? > *why* do you think that *17* *years* later people are still just barely > using this thing. > > i have a theory. i may have already mentioned that "dual stack and ipv4 > will wither away by itself" turns out to have been a dumb idea that didn't > happen. and there was no migration path other than that, really. > > so v6 and v4 don't interoperate as designed and that was an afterthought > that didn't really happen until recently (and in a way that's still > arguably more complex than NAT). and here we are. > > so here's my view: if you have some technical solution for a networking > problem that no one wants for 17 years, you should really probably think > about that. you might not even have to wait 17 years to figure out that > something might be wrong. > > most good stuff is adopted without "evangelism". Actually most good stuff requires evangelism. Lots of good stuff has disappeared into history because there wasn't the right amount of evangelism. Not all good stuff is showy. Some of it every requires governments to enact laws to make companies do the right thing. Very little stuff gets anywhere without evangelism. > t > > > > > Mark > > > > > -- > > > Matthew Newton, Ph.D. > > > > > > Systems Specialist, Infrastructure Services, > > > I.T. Services, University of Leicester, Leicester LE1 7RH, United Kingdom > > > > > > For IT help contact helpdesk extn. 2253, > > -- > > Mark Andrews, ISC > > 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia > > PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: marka at isc.org > > > > --001a113f3ca014ae99052114159c > Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > >

one interesting thing to note...

"gmail_quote">
On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 8:01 PM Mark Andrews = > <marka at isc.org> wrote:
= >
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Some of us have been running IPv6 in pro= > duction for over a decade
> now and developing products that support IPv6 even longer.
>
> We have had 17 years to build up a universal IPv6 network.=C2=A0 It
> should have been done by now.

yes. =C2= > =A0huh. =C2=A0funny about that, right? =C2=A0what do you think accounts for= > that? =C2=A0*why* do you think that *17* *years* later people are still ju= > st barely using this thing.

i have a theory. =C2= > =A0i may have already mentioned that "dual stack and ipv4 will wither = > away by itself" turns out to have been a dumb idea that didn't hap= > pen. and there was no migration path other than that, really.
>
so v6 and v4 don't interoperate as designed and that was an= > afterthought that didn't really happen until recently (and in a way th= > at's still arguably more complex than NAT). =C2=A0and here we are. >

so here's my view: =C2=A0if you have some technica= > l solution for a networking problem that no one wants for 17 years, you sho= > uld really probably think about that. =C2=A0you might not even have to wait= > 17 years to figure out that something might be wrong.

= >
most good stuff is adopted without "evangelism".=C2=A0
= >

t
=C2=A0
=C2=A0
ass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;p= > adding-left:1ex"> > Mark
>
> > --
> > Matthew Newton, Ph.D. < blank">mcn4 at le.ac.uk>
> >
> > Systems Specialist, Infrastructure Services,
> > I.T. Services, University of Leicester, Leicester LE1 7RH, United King= > dom
> >
> > For IT help contact helpdesk extn. 2253, < le.ac.uk" target=3D"_blank">ithelp at le.ac.uk>
> --
> Mark Andrews, ISC
> 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia
> PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= > =A0 =C2=A0INTERNET: mark= > a at isc.org
>
> > --001a113f3ca014ae99052114159c-- -- Mark Andrews, ISC 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: marka at isc.org From matthew at matthew.at Fri Oct 2 00:55:19 2015 From: matthew at matthew.at (Matthew Kaufman) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2015 17:55:19 -0700 Subject: How to force rapid ipv6 adoption In-Reply-To: References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560D9DD0.2030904@Janoszka.pl> <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE@delong.com> <20151001222813.B9469391102B@rock.dv.isc.org> Message-ID: <560DD5F7.6040503@matthew.at> On 10/1/2015 5:16 PM, Ca By wrote: > > I run a large 464xlat dominated mobile network. > > IPv4 bits are materially more expensive to deliver. Isn't that simply a consequence of your engineering decision to use 464xlat instead of native dual-stack, as was originally envisioned for the transition? > > And, as FB has shared, IPv6 is more performant for end users, and more > performant is more profitable > Isn't that also at least partially a consequence of your engineering decision to use 464xlat? Matthew Kaufman From owen at delong.com Fri Oct 2 00:53:28 2015 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2015 17:53:28 -0700 Subject: How to force rapid ipv6 adoption In-Reply-To: References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560D9DD0.2030904@Janoszka.pl> <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE@delong.com> <20151001222813.B9469391102B@rock.dv.isc.org> <20151001232613.GD123100@rootmail.cc.le.ac.uk> Message-ID: <55A3A845-751A-4F21-BC6E-8549DD7BEFCB@delong.com> OK? Let?s look at the ASN32 process. Use ASN 23456 (16-bit) in the AS-Path in place of each ASN32 entry in the path. Preserve the ASN32 path in a separate area of the BGP attributes. So, where in the IPv4 packet do you suggest we place these extra 128 bits of address? Further, what mechanism do you propose for forwarding to the 128 bit destination by looking at the value in the 32 bit field? The closest I can come to a viable implementation of what you propose would be to encapsulate IPv6 packets between IPv6 compatible hosts in an IPv4 datagram which is pretty much what 6in4 would be. If you want the end host on the other side to be able to send a reply packet, then it pretty much has to be able to somehow handle that 128 bit reply address to set up the destination for the reply packet, no? (No such requirements for ASN32). Seriously, Todd, this is trolling pure and simple. Unless you have an actual complete mechanism for solving the problem, you?re just doing what you do best? Trolling. Admittedly, most of your trolling has enough comedic value that we laugh and get past it, but nonetheless, let?s see if you have a genuine solution to offer or if this is just bluster. Owen > On Oct 1, 2015, at 16:52 , Todd Underwood wrote: > > I can't tell if this question is serious. It's either making fun of the > embarrassingly inadequate job we have done on this transition out it's > naive and ignorant in a genius way. > > Read the asn32 migration docs for one that migrations like this can be > properly done. > > This was harder but not impossible. We just chose badly for decades and now > we have NAT *and* a dumb migration. > > Oh well. > > T > On Oct 1, 2015 19:26, "Matthew Newton" wrote: > >> On Thu, Oct 01, 2015 at 10:42:57PM +0000, Todd Underwood wrote: >>> it's just a new addressing protocol that happens to not work with the >> rest >>> of the internet. it's unfortunate that we made that mistake, but i guess >>> we're stuck with that now (i wish i could say something about lessons >>> learned but i don't think any one of us has learned a lesson yet). >> >> Would be really interesting to know how you would propose >> squeezing 128 bits of address data into a 32 bit field so that we >> could all continue to use IPv4 with more addresses than it's has >> available to save having to move to this new incompatible format. >> >> :-) >> >> Matthew >> >> >> -- >> Matthew Newton, Ph.D. >> >> Systems Specialist, Infrastructure Services, >> I.T. Services, University of Leicester, Leicester LE1 7RH, United Kingdom >> >> For IT help contact helpdesk extn. 2253, >> From toddunder at gmail.com Fri Oct 2 00:56:45 2015 From: toddunder at gmail.com (Todd Underwood) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2015 20:56:45 -0400 Subject: How to force rapid ipv6 adoption In-Reply-To: <55A3A845-751A-4F21-BC6E-8549DD7BEFCB@delong.com> References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560D9DD0.2030904@Janoszka.pl> <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE@delong.com> <20151001222813.B9469391102B@rock.dv.isc.org> <20151001232613.GD123100@rootmail.cc.le.ac.uk> <55A3A845-751A-4F21-BC6E-8549DD7BEFCB@delong.com> Message-ID: this is an interesting example of someone who has ill advisedly tied up his identity in a network protocol. this is a mistake i encourage you all not to make. network protocols come and go but you only get one shot at life, so be your own person. this is ad-hominem, owen and i won't engage. feel free to be principled and have technical discussion but insults and attacks really have no place. so please just stop and relax. thanks, t On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 8:53 PM, Owen DeLong wrote: > OK? Let?s look at the ASN32 process. > > Use ASN 23456 (16-bit) in the AS-Path in place of each ASN32 entry in the > path. > Preserve the ASN32 path in a separate area of the BGP attributes. > > So, where in the IPv4 packet do you suggest we place these extra 128 bits > of address? > > Further, what mechanism do you propose for forwarding to the 128 bit > destination by > looking at the value in the 32 bit field? > > The closest I can come to a viable implementation of what you propose > would be > to encapsulate IPv6 packets between IPv6 compatible hosts in an IPv4 > datagram > which is pretty much what 6in4 would be. > > If you want the end host on the other side to be able to send a reply > packet, then > it pretty much has to be able to somehow handle that 128 bit reply address > to set up the destination for the reply packet, no? (No such requirements > for ASN32). > > Seriously, Todd, this is trolling pure and simple. > > Unless you have an actual complete mechanism for solving the problem, > you?re just > doing what you do best? Trolling. > > Admittedly, most of your trolling has enough comedic value that we laugh > and get > past it, but nonetheless, let?s see if you have a genuine solution to > offer or if this > is just bluster. > > Owen > > > On Oct 1, 2015, at 16:52 , Todd Underwood wrote: > > > > I can't tell if this question is serious. It's either making fun of the > > embarrassingly inadequate job we have done on this transition out it's > > naive and ignorant in a genius way. > > > > Read the asn32 migration docs for one that migrations like this can be > > properly done. > > > > This was harder but not impossible. We just chose badly for decades and > now > > we have NAT *and* a dumb migration. > > > > Oh well. > > > > T > > On Oct 1, 2015 19:26, "Matthew Newton" wrote: > > > >> On Thu, Oct 01, 2015 at 10:42:57PM +0000, Todd Underwood wrote: > >>> it's just a new addressing protocol that happens to not work with the > >> rest > >>> of the internet. it's unfortunate that we made that mistake, but i > guess > >>> we're stuck with that now (i wish i could say something about lessons > >>> learned but i don't think any one of us has learned a lesson yet). > >> > >> Would be really interesting to know how you would propose > >> squeezing 128 bits of address data into a 32 bit field so that we > >> could all continue to use IPv4 with more addresses than it's has > >> available to save having to move to this new incompatible format. > >> > >> :-) > >> > >> Matthew > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Matthew Newton, Ph.D. > >> > >> Systems Specialist, Infrastructure Services, > >> I.T. Services, University of Leicester, Leicester LE1 7RH, United > Kingdom > >> > >> For IT help contact helpdesk extn. 2253, > >> > > From owen at delong.com Fri Oct 2 00:58:59 2015 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2015 17:58:59 -0700 Subject: How to force rapid ipv6 adoption In-Reply-To: References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560D9DD0.2030904@Janoszka.pl> <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE@delong.com> <20151001222813.B9469391102B@rock.dv.isc.org> <20151001232613.GD123100@rootmail.cc.le.ac.uk> <55A3A845-751A-4F21-BC6E-8549DD7BEFCB@delong.com> Message-ID: <9FB08507-F739-40CA-AA98-6D35B61F7C95@delong.com> I?m not at all tied up in a particular protocol. Still, Todd, ignoring the other parts, the least you can do is answer this simple question: How would you implement a 128-bit address that is backwards compatible with existing IPv4 hosts requiring no software modification on those hosts? Details matter here. Handwaving about ASN32 doesn?t cut it. If you can?t answer that, there?s really nothing to your argument. Owen > On Oct 1, 2015, at 17:56 , Todd Underwood wrote: > > this is an interesting example of someone who has ill advisedly tied up his identity in a network protocol. this is a mistake i encourage you all not to make. network protocols come and go but you only get one shot at life, so be your own person. > > this is ad-hominem, owen and i won't engage. feel free to be principled and have technical discussion but insults and attacks really have no place. so please just stop and relax. > > thanks, > > t > > > > On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 8:53 PM, Owen DeLong > wrote: > OK? Let?s look at the ASN32 process. > > Use ASN 23456 (16-bit) in the AS-Path in place of each ASN32 entry in the path. > Preserve the ASN32 path in a separate area of the BGP attributes. > > So, where in the IPv4 packet do you suggest we place these extra 128 bits of address? > > Further, what mechanism do you propose for forwarding to the 128 bit destination by > looking at the value in the 32 bit field? > > The closest I can come to a viable implementation of what you propose would be > to encapsulate IPv6 packets between IPv6 compatible hosts in an IPv4 datagram > which is pretty much what 6in4 would be. > > If you want the end host on the other side to be able to send a reply packet, then > it pretty much has to be able to somehow handle that 128 bit reply address > to set up the destination for the reply packet, no? (No such requirements for ASN32). > > Seriously, Todd, this is trolling pure and simple. > > Unless you have an actual complete mechanism for solving the problem, you?re just > doing what you do best? Trolling. > > Admittedly, most of your trolling has enough comedic value that we laugh and get > past it, but nonetheless, let?s see if you have a genuine solution to offer or if this > is just bluster. > > Owen > > > On Oct 1, 2015, at 16:52 , Todd Underwood > wrote: > > > > I can't tell if this question is serious. It's either making fun of the > > embarrassingly inadequate job we have done on this transition out it's > > naive and ignorant in a genius way. > > > > Read the asn32 migration docs for one that migrations like this can be > > properly done. > > > > This was harder but not impossible. We just chose badly for decades and now > > we have NAT *and* a dumb migration. > > > > Oh well. > > > > T > > On Oct 1, 2015 19:26, "Matthew Newton" > wrote: > > > >> On Thu, Oct 01, 2015 at 10:42:57PM +0000, Todd Underwood wrote: > >>> it's just a new addressing protocol that happens to not work with the > >> rest > >>> of the internet. it's unfortunate that we made that mistake, but i guess > >>> we're stuck with that now (i wish i could say something about lessons > >>> learned but i don't think any one of us has learned a lesson yet). > >> > >> Would be really interesting to know how you would propose > >> squeezing 128 bits of address data into a 32 bit field so that we > >> could all continue to use IPv4 with more addresses than it's has > >> available to save having to move to this new incompatible format. > >> > >> :-) > >> > >> Matthew > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Matthew Newton, Ph.D. > > >> > >> Systems Specialist, Infrastructure Services, > >> I.T. Services, University of Leicester, Leicester LE1 7RH, United Kingdom > >> > >> For IT help contact helpdesk extn. 2253, > > >> > > From dovid at telecurve.com Fri Oct 2 01:15:07 2015 From: dovid at telecurve.com (Dovid Bender) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 01:15:07 +0000 Subject: How to force rapid ipv6 adoption In-Reply-To: References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560D9DD0.2030904@Janoszka.pl> <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE@delong.com> <20151001222813.B9469391102B@rock.dv.isc.org> Message-ID: <1839574643-1443748508-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1916625302-@b13.c3.bise6.blackberry> Nothing to do with religion at all. I advocate IPv6 all the time as some one who deals a lot with SIP. The issues are endless when dealing with NAT. NAT is an ugly hack and should die already. It will take a few years for router manufactures to get it right but them they do it will be better for all. Regards, Dovid -----Original Message----- From: Todd Underwood Sender: "NANOG" Date: Thu, 01 Oct 2015 22:42:57 To: Mark Andrews; Owen DeLong Cc: Subject: Re: How to force rapid ipv6 adoption i'm still confused, to be honest. why are we 'encouraging' 'evangelizing' or 'forcing' ipv6 adoption. it's just a new addressing protocol that happens to not work with the rest of the internet. it's unfortunate that we made that mistake, but i guess we're stuck with that now (i wish i could say something about lessons learned but i don't think any one of us has learned a lesson yet). so people will renumber their network assets into this new network namespace when either: 1) the new non-internet ipv6 network has enough good stuff only on it that it makes sense to go over there; or 2) the old ipv4 internet addresses get so expensive that ain't no one willing to pay. right now, neither of those things are true. so people who are adopting ipv6 are doing so for two reason: A) blind, unmotivated religious reasons. they "believe" in this new protocol and have somehow managed to tie their identity up in it. (this is clearly a mistake for an engineer: technology comes and goes. don't ever tie your identity up in some technology or you'll end up advocating DECNET for the cloud at some point. it won't be pretty). B) strategic reasons. there are people who think that switching costs are going to be high and that there's an advantage to moving earlier to be ready for coming demand when #1 or #2 above happen. unlike A, B is completely rational and smart. it might be wrong, but it's not stupid at all. put mike leber and HE in this B category. the only reason people are *advocating* ipv6 right now are that they've made a religious choice, which is weird and should be a personal, not public choice unless they are great commission ipv6 adherants [1], *or* they have a vested interest in getting your business. the first reason is religion and is off-topic for nanog and the second reason is marketing (however well intentioned) and should also be off topic for nanog. so can we stop talking about ipv6 advocacy and move on to the network engineering topics, please? if someone is running ipv6 for whatever reason and has questions, awesome. if someone wants to talk about addressing schemes, awesome. but trying to convince someone to run LAT^H^H^Hipv6 or whatever disconnected network protocol they're advocating today? not useful. cheers, t On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 6:32 PM Mark Andrews wrote: > > In message <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE at delong.com>, Owen DeLong > writes: > > > > > On Oct 1, 2015, at 13:55 , Grzegorz Janoszka > > wrote: > > > > > > On 2015-10-01 20:29, Owen DeLong wrote: > > >> However, I think eventually the residential ISPs are going to start > > charging extra > > >> for IPv4 service. > > > > > > ISP's will not charge too much. With too expensive IPv4 many customers > > will migrate from v4/dual stack to v6-only and ISP's will be left with > > unused IPv4 addresses and less income. > > > > Nope? They?ll be left with unused IPv4 addresses which is not a > > significant source of income and they?ll be able to significantly reduce > > the costs incurred > > in supporting things like CGNAT. > > > > > Will ISP's still find other profitable usage for v4 addresses? If not, > > they will be probably be quite slowly rising IPv4 pricing, not wanting to > > overprice it. > > > > Probably they will sell it to business customers instead of the > > residential customers. However, we?re talking about relatively large > > numbers of customers > > for relatively small numbers of IPv4 addresses that aren?t producing > > revenue directly at this time anyway. > > > > > Even with $1/IPv4/month - what will be the ROI of a brand new home > > router? > > > > About 2.5 years at that price since a brand new home router is about $29. > > > > Owen > > The hard part is the internet connected TV's and other stuff which > fetches content over the internet which are IPv4 only despite being > released when IPv6 existed. These are theoretically upgradable to > support IPv6 so long as the manufactures release a IPv6 capable > image. The real question is will governments force them to do this. > > Upgrading the router is a no brainer. Upgrading the TV, games > consoles, e-readers, etc. starts to add up. > > Mark > -- > Mark Andrews, ISC > 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia > PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: marka at isc.org > From damian at google.com Fri Oct 2 01:28:52 2015 From: damian at google.com (Damian Menscher) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2015 18:28:52 -0700 Subject: How to force rapid ipv6 adoption In-Reply-To: <20151001232613.GD123100@rootmail.cc.le.ac.uk> References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560D9DD0.2030904@Janoszka.pl> <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE@delong.com> <20151001222813.B9469391102B@rock.dv.isc.org> <20151001232613.GD123100@rootmail.cc.le.ac.uk> Message-ID: On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 4:26 PM, Matthew Newton wrote: > On Thu, Oct 01, 2015 at 10:42:57PM +0000, Todd Underwood wrote: > > it's just a new addressing protocol that happens to not work with the > rest > > of the internet. it's unfortunate that we made that mistake, but i guess > > we're stuck with that now (i wish i could say something about lessons > > learned but i don't think any one of us has learned a lesson yet). > > Would be really interesting to know how you would propose > squeezing 128 bits of address data into a 32 bit field so that we > could all continue to use IPv4 with more addresses than it's has > available to save having to move to this new incompatible format. I solved that problem a few years ago (well, kinda -- only for backend logging, not for routing): http://docs.guava-libraries.googlecode.com/git/javadoc/com/google/common/net/InetAddresses.html#getCoercedIPv4Address(java.net.InetAddress) Damian From toddunder at gmail.com Fri Oct 2 01:30:41 2015 From: toddunder at gmail.com (Todd Underwood) Date: Fri, 02 Oct 2015 01:30:41 +0000 Subject: How to force rapid ipv6 adoption In-Reply-To: <1839574643-1443748508-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1916625302-@b13.c3.bise6.blackberry> References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560D9DD0.2030904@Janoszka.pl> <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE@delong.com> <20151001222813.B9469391102B@rock.dv.isc.org> <1839574643-1443748508-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1916625302-@b13.c3.bise6.blackberry> Message-ID: Yep. Nat is terrible. Dual stack is even worse for end user exclusive. Clients that migrate back and forth between different protocols at will (hello Mac OS) are going to be really challenging for everyone, too. But we didn't get magical, free, simple migration. So we could have done some kind of 8+8 or LISP thing but we didn't. And here we are. T On Thu, Oct 1, 2015, 21:15 Dovid Bender wrote: > Nothing to do with religion at all. I advocate IPv6 all the time as some > one who deals a lot with SIP. The issues are endless when dealing with NAT. > NAT is an ugly hack and should die already. It will take a few years for > router manufactures to get it right but them they do it will be better for > all. > > Regards, > > Dovid > > -----Original Message----- > From: Todd Underwood > Sender: "NANOG" Date: Thu, 01 Oct 2015 22:42:57 > To: Mark Andrews; Owen DeLong > Cc: > Subject: Re: How to force rapid ipv6 adoption > > i'm still confused, to be honest. > > why are we 'encouraging' 'evangelizing' or 'forcing' ipv6 adoption. > > it's just a new addressing protocol that happens to not work with the rest > of the internet. it's unfortunate that we made that mistake, but i guess > we're stuck with that now (i wish i could say something about lessons > learned but i don't think any one of us has learned a lesson yet). > > so people will renumber their network assets into this new network > namespace when either: > > 1) the new non-internet ipv6 network has enough good stuff only on it that > it makes sense to go over there; or > > 2) the old ipv4 internet addresses get so expensive that ain't no one > willing to pay. > > right now, neither of those things are true. so people who are adopting > ipv6 are doing so for two reason: > > A) blind, unmotivated religious reasons. they "believe" in this new > protocol and have somehow managed to tie their identity up in it. (this is > clearly a mistake for an engineer: technology comes and goes. don't ever > tie your identity up in some technology or you'll end up advocating DECNET > for the cloud at some point. it won't be pretty). > > B) strategic reasons. there are people who think that switching costs are > going to be high and that there's an advantage to moving earlier to be > ready for coming demand when #1 or #2 above happen. unlike A, B is > completely rational and smart. it might be wrong, but it's not stupid at > all. put mike leber and HE in this B category. > > the only reason people are *advocating* ipv6 right now are that they've > made a religious choice, which is weird and should be a personal, not > public choice unless they are great commission ipv6 adherants [1], *or* > they have a vested interest in getting your business. > > the first reason is religion and is off-topic for nanog and the second > reason is marketing (however well intentioned) and should also be off topic > for nanog. > > so can we stop talking about ipv6 advocacy and move on to the network > engineering topics, please? if someone is running ipv6 for whatever reason > and has questions, awesome. if someone wants to talk about addressing > schemes, awesome. but trying to convince someone to run LAT^H^H^Hipv6 or > whatever disconnected network protocol they're advocating today? not > useful. > > cheers, > > t > > > > On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 6:32 PM Mark Andrews wrote: > > > > > In message <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE at delong.com>, Owen > DeLong > > writes: > > > > > > > On Oct 1, 2015, at 13:55 , Grzegorz Janoszka > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > On 2015-10-01 20:29, Owen DeLong wrote: > > > >> However, I think eventually the residential ISPs are going to start > > > charging extra > > > >> for IPv4 service. > > > > > > > > ISP's will not charge too much. With too expensive IPv4 many > customers > > > will migrate from v4/dual stack to v6-only and ISP's will be left with > > > unused IPv4 addresses and less income. > > > > > > Nope? They?ll be left with unused IPv4 addresses which is not a > > > significant source of income and they?ll be able to significantly > reduce > > > the costs incurred > > > in supporting things like CGNAT. > > > > > > > Will ISP's still find other profitable usage for v4 addresses? If > not, > > > they will be probably be quite slowly rising IPv4 pricing, not wanting > to > > > overprice it. > > > > > > Probably they will sell it to business customers instead of the > > > residential customers. However, we?re talking about relatively large > > > numbers of customers > > > for relatively small numbers of IPv4 addresses that aren?t producing > > > revenue directly at this time anyway. > > > > > > > Even with $1/IPv4/month - what will be the ROI of a brand new home > > > router? > > > > > > About 2.5 years at that price since a brand new home router is about > $29. > > > > > > Owen > > > > The hard part is the internet connected TV's and other stuff which > > fetches content over the internet which are IPv4 only despite being > > released when IPv6 existed. These are theoretically upgradable to > > support IPv6 so long as the manufactures release a IPv6 capable > > image. The real question is will governments force them to do this. > > > > Upgrading the router is a no brainer. Upgrading the TV, games > > consoles, e-readers, etc. starts to add up. > > > > Mark > > -- > > Mark Andrews, ISC > > 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia > > PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: marka at isc.org > > > From toddunder at gmail.com Fri Oct 2 01:37:03 2015 From: toddunder at gmail.com (Todd Underwood) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2015 21:37:03 -0400 Subject: How to force rapid ipv6 adoption In-Reply-To: <9FB08507-F739-40CA-AA98-6D35B61F7C95@delong.com> References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560D9DD0.2030904@Janoszka.pl> <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE@delong.com> <20151001222813.B9469391102B@rock.dv.isc.org> <20151001232613.GD123100@rootmail.cc.le.ac.uk> <55A3A845-751A-4F21-BC6E-8549DD7BEFCB@delong.com> <9FB08507-F739-40CA-AA98-6D35B61F7C95@delong.com> Message-ID: Either there are multiple translation systems that exist that were invented late or there are not. Either Owen has never heard of any of them or he is trolling. In any case I'm giving up on that conversation. And this whole one. It goes nowhere. And this is why v6 is where it is: true believers. Instead of a simple, practical matter of engineering a transition we got 15 years of advocacy. It makes the sleazy v4 transfer market look appealing. :) T On Oct 1, 2015 8:59 PM, "Owen DeLong" wrote: > I?m not at all tied up in a particular protocol. > > Still, Todd, ignoring the other parts, the least you can do is answer this > simple question: > > How would you implement a 128-bit address that is backwards compatible > with existing > IPv4 hosts requiring no software modification on those hosts? Details > matter here. > Handwaving about ASN32 doesn?t cut it. > > > If you can?t answer that, there?s really nothing to your argument. > > Owen > > On Oct 1, 2015, at 17:56 , Todd Underwood wrote: > > this is an interesting example of someone who has ill advisedly tied up > his identity in a network protocol. this is a mistake i encourage you all > not to make. network protocols come and go but you only get one shot at > life, so be your own person. > > this is ad-hominem, owen and i won't engage. feel free to be principled > and have technical discussion but insults and attacks really have no place. > so please just stop and relax. > > thanks, > > t > > > > On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 8:53 PM, Owen DeLong wrote: > >> OK? Let?s look at the ASN32 process. >> >> Use ASN 23456 (16-bit) in the AS-Path in place of each ASN32 entry in the >> path. >> Preserve the ASN32 path in a separate area of the BGP attributes. >> >> So, where in the IPv4 packet do you suggest we place these extra 128 bits >> of address? >> >> Further, what mechanism do you propose for forwarding to the 128 bit >> destination by >> looking at the value in the 32 bit field? >> >> The closest I can come to a viable implementation of what you propose >> would be >> to encapsulate IPv6 packets between IPv6 compatible hosts in an IPv4 >> datagram >> which is pretty much what 6in4 would be. >> >> If you want the end host on the other side to be able to send a reply >> packet, then >> it pretty much has to be able to somehow handle that 128 bit reply address >> to set up the destination for the reply packet, no? (No such requirements >> for ASN32). >> >> Seriously, Todd, this is trolling pure and simple. >> >> Unless you have an actual complete mechanism for solving the problem, >> you?re just >> doing what you do best? Trolling. >> >> Admittedly, most of your trolling has enough comedic value that we laugh >> and get >> past it, but nonetheless, let?s see if you have a genuine solution to >> offer or if this >> is just bluster. >> >> Owen >> >> > On Oct 1, 2015, at 16:52 , Todd Underwood wrote: >> > >> > I can't tell if this question is serious. It's either making fun of the >> > embarrassingly inadequate job we have done on this transition out it's >> > naive and ignorant in a genius way. >> > >> > Read the asn32 migration docs for one that migrations like this can be >> > properly done. >> > >> > This was harder but not impossible. We just chose badly for decades and >> now >> > we have NAT *and* a dumb migration. >> > >> > Oh well. >> > >> > T >> > On Oct 1, 2015 19:26, "Matthew Newton" wrote: >> > >> >> On Thu, Oct 01, 2015 at 10:42:57PM +0000, Todd Underwood wrote: >> >>> it's just a new addressing protocol that happens to not work with the >> >> rest >> >>> of the internet. it's unfortunate that we made that mistake, but i >> guess >> >>> we're stuck with that now (i wish i could say something about lessons >> >>> learned but i don't think any one of us has learned a lesson yet). >> >> >> >> Would be really interesting to know how you would propose >> >> squeezing 128 bits of address data into a 32 bit field so that we >> >> could all continue to use IPv4 with more addresses than it's has >> >> available to save having to move to this new incompatible format. >> >> >> >> :-) >> >> >> >> Matthew >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Matthew Newton, Ph.D. >> >> >> >> Systems Specialist, Infrastructure Services, >> >> I.T. Services, University of Leicester, Leicester LE1 7RH, United >> Kingdom >> >> >> >> For IT help contact helpdesk extn. 2253, >> >> >> >> > > From cb.list6 at gmail.com Fri Oct 2 01:38:22 2015 From: cb.list6 at gmail.com (Ca By) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2015 18:38:22 -0700 Subject: How to force rapid ipv6 adoption In-Reply-To: <560DD5F7.6040503@matthew.at> References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560D9DD0.2030904@Janoszka.pl> <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE@delong.com> <20151001222813.B9469391102B@rock.dv.isc.org> <560DD5F7.6040503@matthew.at> Message-ID: On Thursday, October 1, 2015, Matthew Kaufman wrote: > On 10/1/2015 5:16 PM, Ca By wrote: > >> >> I run a large 464xlat dominated mobile network. >> >> IPv4 bits are materially more expensive to deliver. >> > > Isn't that simply a consequence of your engineering decision to use > 464xlat instead of native dual-stack, as was originally envisioned for the > transition? > > Steady state would be nat44, which also is materially more expensive to deliver than IPv6 > >> And, as FB has shared, IPv6 is more performant for end users, and more >> performant is more profitable >> >> > Isn't that also at least partially a consequence of your engineering > decision to use 464xlat? > > Perhaps. But it is Verizon's dual-stack in the quote, not me http://www.lightreading.com/ethernet-ip/ip-protocols-software/facebook-ipv6-is-a-real-world-big-deal/a/d-id/718395 > Matthew Kaufman > > From cmaurand at xyonet.com Fri Oct 2 02:52:40 2015 From: cmaurand at xyonet.com (Curtis Maurand) Date: Thu, 01 Oct 2015 23:52:40 -0300 Subject: How to force rapid ipv6 adoption In-Reply-To: References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560D844E.9010308@xyonet.com> Message-ID: <2BB18527-2F9C-4FEE-95DD-3F89919A8049@xyonet.com> If Time Warner (my ISP) put up IPv6 tomorrow, my firewall would no longer work. I could put up a pfsnse or vyatta box pretty quickly, but my off the shelf Cisco/Linksys home router has no ipv6 support hence the need to replace the hardware. There's no firmware update for it supporting ipv6 either. There would be millions of people in the same boat. Cheers, Curtis On October 1, 2015 5:44:46 PM ADT, Owen DeLong wrote: > >> On Oct 1, 2015, at 12:06 , Curtis Maurand >wrote: >> >> >> >> On 10/1/2015 2:29 PM, Owen DeLong wrote: >>>> On Oct 1, 2015, at 00:39 , Baldur Norddahl > wrote: >>>> >>>> On 1 October 2015 at 03:26, Mark Andrews wrote: >>>> >>>>> Windows XP does IPv6 fine so long as there is a IPv4 recursive >>>>> server available. It's just a simple command to install IPv6. >>>>> >>>>> netsh interface ipv6 install >>>>> >>>> If the customer knew how to do that he wouldn't still be using >Windows XP. >>>> >>>> >>>>> Actually I don't expect Gmail and Facebook to be IPv4 only >forever. >>>>> >>>> Gmail and Facebook are already dual stack enabled. But I do not see >>>> Facebook turning off IPv4 for a very long time. Therefore a >customer that >>>> only uses the Internet for a few basic things will be able to get >along >>>> with being IPv4-only for a very long time. >>>> >>> Yes and no? >>> >>> I think you are right about facebook. >>> >>> However, I think eventually the residential ISPs are going to start >charging extra >>> for IPv4 service. Some residences may pay for it initially, but if >they think there?s a >>> way to move away from it and the ISPs start fingerpointing to the >specific laggards, >>> you?ll see a groundswell of consumers pushing to find alternatives. >>> >>> Owen >>> >> ipv6 is going to force a lot of consumers to replace hardware. Worse, >it's not easy to set up and get right as ipv4 is. >> >> --Curtis > >You?re going to have to elaborate on that one?. I think IPv6 is >actually quite a bit easier than IPv4, so please explicate >in what ways it is harder to set up and get right? > >For the average household, it?s plug the IPv6-capable router in and let >it go. > >For more advanced environments, it might take nearly as much effort as >IPv4 and the unfamiliarity might add a couple >of additional challenges the first time, but once you get past that, >IPv6 has a lot of features that actually make it >easier than IPv4. > >Not having to deal with NAT being just one of the big ones. > >Owen -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. From rob at invaluement.com Fri Oct 2 03:06:34 2015 From: rob at invaluement.com (Rob McEwen) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2015 23:06:34 -0400 Subject: How to wish you hadn't forced ipv6 adoption (was "How to force rapid ipv6 adoption") In-Reply-To: References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560D9DD0.2030904@Janoszka.pl> <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE@delong.com> <20151001222813.B9469391102B@rock.dv.isc.org> <20151001232613.GD123100@rootmail.cc.le.ac.uk> <20151002000125.9CD573911EF5@rock.dv.isc.org> Message-ID: <560DF4BA.5000500@invaluement.com> RE: How to wish you hadn't rushed ipv6 adoption Force the whole world to switch to IPv6 within the foreseeable future, abolish IPv4... all within several years or even within 50 years... and then watch spam filtering worldwide get knocked back to the stone ages while spammers and blackhat and grayhat ESPs laugh their way to the bank... that is, until e-mail becomes unworkable and is virtually abandoned. I welcome IPv6 adoption in the near future in all but one area: the sending IPs of valid mail servers. Those need to stay IPv4 for as long as reasonably possible. It turns out... the scarcity of IPv4 IPs in THIS area... is a feature, not a bug. That scarcity makes it harder for spammers to acquire new IPs, and they therefore pay a price for the ones they burn through via their spam-sending. Likewise, scarcity of IPv4 IPs *forces* ESPs, hosters, and ISPs to try HARD to keep their IPs clean. THEY pay a price when a bad-apple customer soils up their IP space. In contrast, with IPv6, order of magnitude MORE IPs are easily acquired, and order of magnitude more are in each allocation. It is truly a spammer's dream come true. This reminds me about a recent article Brian Krebs wrote about a famous hoster who slowly drove their business into the ground by allowing in the kind of spammers that look a little legit at first glance. (like the "CAN-SPAM" spammers who are doing nothing illegal, follow the law, but still send to purchase lists). But even this hoster's bank account was bursting at the seams with cash due to a booming business, their IP space's reputation was slowly turning in crap. Eventually, they started losing even their spammer customers. Then, their CEO made a decision to get serious about abuse and keeping spammers off of their network---and this turned into a success story where they now run a successful hosting business without the spammers. In an IPv6 world, I wonder if they would have ever even cared? There would always be new fresh IPv6 IPs to acquire! There would never have been the "motivation" to turn things around. There would always be new IPv6 IPs to move on to. (or at least enough available to "kick the can down the road" and not worry about any long term repercussions). It was ONLY when this CEO started seeing even the spammers start to leave him (along with some SpamHaus blacklistings)! that he realized that his IP reputation would eventually get so bad that he be virtually out of business. It was ONLY then that he decided to make changes. Would this have happened in an all-IPv6 world? I highly doubt it! He'd just keep moving on to fresh IPs! The cumulative sum total of all those hosters and ESPs downward spiraling in an IPv6 world... could cause the spam problem to GREATLY accelerate. Meanwhile, sender IP blacklists would become useless in an IPv6 world because the spammer now has enough IPs (in many scenarios) to EVEN SEND ONE SPAM PER IP, never to have to use that one IP again FOR YEARS, if ever. So a blacklisting is ineffective... and actually helps the spammer to listwash spamtrap addresses... since the ONE listing maps to a single recipient address. Now the sender's IP blacklist is even less effective and is helping the spammers more than it is blocking spam! And did I mention that the sender's IP list has bloated so large that it is hard to host in DNS and hard to distribute--and most of the listings are now useless anyways! Yes, there are other types of spam filtering... including content filtering techniques. But in the real world, these only work because the heavy lifting is ALREADY done by the sender's IP blacklist. The vast majority of this worldwide "heavy lifting" is done by "zen.spamhaus.org". If many of the largest ISPs suddenly lost access to Zen, some such filters would be in huge trouble.... brought down to their knees. Now imagine that all the other sending-IP blacklists are gone too? In that spammer's dream scenario, the spammer has upgraded to a Lamborghini, while the spam filters have reverted back to the horse and buggy. Serious, that analogy isn't the slightest bit of an exaggeration. Yes, you can STILL have your toaster and refrigerator and car send mail from an IPv6 address... they would just need to SMTP-Authenticate to a valid mail server... via an IPv6 connection... yet where that valid MTA would then send their mail to another MTA via IPv4. Since the number of IPv4 IPs needed for such valid mail servers is actually very, very small (relatively speaking), then it isn't a big problem for THOSE to get IPv4 addresses, at a trivial cost. We might even see IPv4 open up a bit as OTHER services move to IPv6. IPv6 addresses NOT being able to send directly to the e-mail recipient's IPv4 mail servers might actually help cut down on botnet spam, which is an added plus! (whereas those IPv6's IPv4 predecessors sometimes could send that botnet spam directly to the recipient's mail server). So push IPv6 all you want.. .even "force" it... but please don't be too quick to rush the elimination of IPv4 anytime soon. And lets keep MTA sending IPs (which is server-to-server traffic) as IPv4-only, even if they are able to receive their own customers' SMTP auth mail via IPv6. Otherwise, we'll be having discussions one day about how to limit WHICH and HOW MANY IPv6 addresses can be assigned to MTAs! (hey, maybe that isn't a bad idea either!) -- Rob McEwen From marka at isc.org Fri Oct 2 03:30:56 2015 From: marka at isc.org (Mark Andrews) Date: Fri, 02 Oct 2015 13:30:56 +1000 Subject: How to force rapid ipv6 adoption In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 01 Oct 2015 23:52:40 -0300." <2BB18527-2F9C-4FEE-95DD-3F89919A8049@xyonet.com> References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560D844E.9010308@xyonet.com> <2BB18527-2F9C-4FEE-95DD-3F89919A8049@xyonet.com> Message-ID: <20151002033056.60DF83922158@rock.dv.isc.org> In message <2BB18527-2F9C-4FEE-95DD-3F89919A8049 at xyonet.com>, Curtis Maurand wr ites: > If Time Warner (my ISP) put up IPv6 tomorrow, my firewall would no longer wo > rk. I could put up a pfsnse or vyatta box pretty quickly, but my off the sh > elf Cisco/Linksys home router has no ipv6 support hence the need to replace > the hardware. There's no firmware update for it supporting ipv6 either. The > re would be millions of people in the same boat. Total garbage that *everyone* here should recognise as total garbage. If Time Warner turned on IPv6 your firewall would just continue to work as it always has. TURNING ON IPv6 DOES NOT TURN OFF IPV4. As for millions of people needing to upgrade their CPE equipement you really should be asking yourself if you should be rewarding those vendors for selling you IPv4 only equipement in the first place. If Microsoft, along with lots of other vendors could deliver IPv6 capable equipment in 2001, your and every other CPE vendor could have done so. Instead they sold you out of date garbage that you happily accepted. Mark > Cheers, > Curtis > > On October 1, 2015 5:44:46 PM ADT, Owen DeLong wrote: > > > >> On Oct 1, 2015, at 12:06 , Curtis Maurand > >wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >> On 10/1/2015 2:29 PM, Owen DeLong wrote: > >>>> On Oct 1, 2015, at 00:39 , Baldur Norddahl > > wrote: > >>>> > >>>> On 1 October 2015 at 03:26, Mark Andrews wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Windows XP does IPv6 fine so long as there is a IPv4 recursive > >>>>> server available. It's just a simple command to install IPv6. > >>>>> > >>>>> netsh interface ipv6 install > >>>>> > >>>> If the customer knew how to do that he wouldn't still be using > >Windows XP. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> Actually I don't expect Gmail and Facebook to be IPv4 only > >forever. > >>>>> > >>>> Gmail and Facebook are already dual stack enabled. But I do not see > >>>> Facebook turning off IPv4 for a very long time. Therefore a > >customer that > >>>> only uses the Internet for a few basic things will be able to get > >along > >>>> with being IPv4-only for a very long time. > >>>> > >>> Yes and no??? > >>> > >>> I think you are right about facebook. > >>> > >>> However, I think eventually the residential ISPs are going to start > >charging extra > >>> for IPv4 service. Some residences may pay for it initially, but if > >they think there???s a > >>> way to move away from it and the ISPs start fingerpointing to the > >specific laggards, > >>> you???ll see a groundswell of consumers pushing to find alternatives. > >>> > >>> Owen > >>> > >> ipv6 is going to force a lot of consumers to replace hardware. Worse, > >it's not easy to set up and get right as ipv4 is. > >> > >> --Curtis > > > >You???re going to have to elaborate on that one???. I think IPv6 is > >actually quite a bit easier than IPv4, so please explicate > >in what ways it is harder to set up and get right? > > > >For the average household, it???s plug the IPv6-capable router in and let > >it go. > > > >For more advanced environments, it might take nearly as much effort as > >IPv4 and the unfamiliarity might add a couple > >of additional challenges the first time, but once you get past that, > >IPv6 has a lot of features that actually make it > >easier than IPv4. > > > >Not having to deal with NAT being just one of the big ones. > > > >Owen > > -- > Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -- Mark Andrews, ISC 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: marka at isc.org From rob at invaluement.com Fri Oct 2 03:33:51 2015 From: rob at invaluement.com (Rob McEwen) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2015 23:33:51 -0400 Subject: How to wish you hadn't forced ipv6 adoption (was "How to force rapid ipv6 adoption") In-Reply-To: References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560D9DD0.2030904@Janoszka.pl> <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE@delong.com> <20151001222813.B9469391102B@rock.dv.isc.org> <20151001232613.GD123100@rootmail.cc.le.ac.uk> <20151002000125.9CD573911EF5@rock.dv.isc.org> <560DF4BA.5000500@invaluement.com> Message-ID: <560DFB1F.5020008@invaluement.com> On 10/1/2015 11:18 PM, cortana5 at gmail.com wrote: > Excuse my probable ignorance of such matters, but would it not then be > preferred to create a whitelist of proven Email servers/ip's , and > just drop the rest? Granted, one would have to create a process to > vet anyone creating a new email server, but would that not be easier > then trying to create and maintain new blacklists? > I have heard that mentioned before. Unfortunately, this wouldn't work: (1) we already have extensive IPv4 whitelists, many of which are used by prominent anti-spam blacklists (and ISPs) to prevent false positives. However, if tomorrow, ALL IPv4 blacklists disappears, and all mail servers only allowed in the traffic coming from the IPs listed on the better IPv4 whitelists, then a massive percentage of VERY legit mail would STILL be blocked. Therefore, if IPv4 whitelists can't keep up in the IPv4 work, how are they going to do so in the IPv6 world? (2) Then there is the chicken-N-egg problem. How do you get your mail delivered if you are a new sender, but aren't on that list yet. How do you prove your sending practices are valid if you can't get your first e-mail delivered? (3) Any solution to that "chicken-N-egg problem"... which tries to provide some kind of verification of legit senders... is a hoop that the spammers could jump through just as easily... and they will! (some of them doing so convince that they are doing nothing wrong because they were told that the list they bought isn't spam because the recipient forgot to uncheck a button that said, "receive offers from third parties"!) (4) and this idea oversimplifies the complexity of the spam problem. For example, many of the better blacklists know just when it is appropriate to blacklist that legit sender who sends 100 legit messages a day, but had a compromised system that triggered 50 thousand spam to be sent out that day... and the better blacklists are good about delisting that sender soon after the problem is fixed. But in a whitelist-only world, you're stuck receiving all that spam! -- Rob McEwen +1 478-475-9032 From marka at isc.org Fri Oct 2 03:44:02 2015 From: marka at isc.org (Mark Andrews) Date: Fri, 02 Oct 2015 13:44:02 +1000 Subject: How to wish you hadn't forced ipv6 adoption (was "How to force rapid ipv6 adoption") In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 01 Oct 2015 23:06:34 -0400." <560DF4BA.5000500@invaluement.com> References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560D9DD0.2030904@Janoszka.pl> <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE@delong.com> <20151001222813.B9469391102B@rock.dv.isc.org> <20151001232613.GD123100@rootmail.cc.le.ac.uk> <20151002000125.9CD573911EF5@rock.dv.isc.org> <560DF4BA.5000500@invaluement.com> Message-ID: <20151002034402.1201F39225D0@rock.dv.isc.org> In message <560DF4BA.5000500 at invaluement.com>, Rob McEwen writes: > RE: How to wish you hadn't rushed ipv6 adoption > > Force the whole world to switch to IPv6 within the foreseeable future, > abolish IPv4... all within several years or even within 50 years... and > then watch spam filtering worldwide get knocked back to the stone ages > while spammers and blackhat and grayhat ESPs laugh their way to the > bank... that is, until e-mail becomes unworkable and is virtually abandoned. > > I welcome IPv6 adoption in the near future in all but one area: the > sending IPs of valid mail servers. Those need to stay IPv4 for as long > as reasonably possible. > > It turns out... the scarcity of IPv4 IPs in THIS area... is a feature, > not a bug. > > That scarcity makes it harder for spammers to acquire new IPs, and they > therefore pay a price for the ones they burn through via their > spam-sending. Likewise, scarcity of IPv4 IPs *forces* ESPs, hosters, and > ISPs to try HARD to keep their IPs clean. THEY pay a price when a > bad-apple customer soils up their IP space. > > In contrast, with IPv6, order of magnitude MORE IPs are easily acquired, > and order of magnitude more are in each allocation. It is truly a > spammer's dream come true. This reminds me about a recent article Brian > Krebs wrote about a famous hoster who slowly drove their business into > the ground by allowing in the kind of spammers that look a little legit > at first glance. (like the "CAN-SPAM" spammers who are doing nothing > illegal, follow the law, but still send to purchase lists). But even > this hoster's bank account was bursting at the seams with cash due to a > booming business, their IP space's reputation was slowly turning in > crap. Eventually, they started losing even their spammer customers. > Then, their CEO made a decision to get serious about abuse and keeping > spammers off of their network---and this turned into a success story > where they now run a successful hosting business without the spammers. > In an IPv6 world, I wonder if they would have ever even cared? There > would always be new fresh IPv6 IPs to acquire! There would never have > been the "motivation" to turn things around. There would always be new > IPv6 IPs to move on to. (or at least enough available to "kick the can > down the road" and not worry about any long term repercussions). It was > ONLY when this CEO started seeing even the spammers start to leave him > (along with some SpamHaus blacklistings)! that he realized that his IP > reputation would eventually get so bad that he be virtually out of > business. It was ONLY then that he decided to make changes. Would this > have happened in an all-IPv6 world? I highly doubt it! He'd just keep > moving on to fresh IPs! > > The cumulative sum total of all those hosters and ESPs downward > spiraling in an IPv6 world... could cause the spam problem to GREATLY > accelerate. > > Meanwhile, sender IP blacklists would become useless in an IPv6 world > because the spammer now has enough IPs (in many scenarios) to EVEN SEND > ONE SPAM PER IP, never to have to use that one IP again FOR YEARS, if > ever. So a blacklisting is ineffective... and actually helps the spammer > to listwash spamtrap addresses... since the ONE listing maps to a single > recipient address. Now the sender's IP blacklist is even less effective > and is helping the spammers more than it is blocking spam! And did I > mention that the sender's IP list has bloated so large that it is hard > to host in DNS and hard to distribute--and most of the listings are now > useless anyways! > > Yes, there are other types of spam filtering... including content > filtering techniques. But in the real world, these only work because the > heavy lifting is ALREADY done by the sender's IP blacklist. The vast > majority of this worldwide "heavy lifting" is done by > "zen.spamhaus.org". If many of the largest ISPs suddenly lost access to > Zen, some such filters would be in huge trouble.... brought down to > their knees. Now imagine that all the other sending-IP blacklists are > gone too? In that spammer's dream scenario, the spammer has upgraded to > a Lamborghini, while the spam filters have reverted back to the horse > and buggy. Serious, that analogy isn't the slightest bit of an exaggeration. > > Yes, you can STILL have your toaster and refrigerator and car send mail > from an IPv6 address... they would just need to SMTP-Authenticate to a > valid mail server... via an IPv6 connection... yet where that valid MTA > would then send their mail to another MTA via IPv4. Since the number of > IPv4 IPs needed for such valid mail servers is actually very, very small > (relatively speaking), then it isn't a big problem for THOSE to get IPv4 > addresses, at a trivial cost. We might even see IPv4 open up a bit as > OTHER services move to IPv6. IPv6 addresses NOT being able to send > directly to the e-mail recipient's IPv4 mail servers might actually help > cut down on botnet spam, which is an added plus! (whereas those IPv6's > IPv4 predecessors sometimes could send that botnet spam directly to the > recipient's mail server). > > So push IPv6 all you want.. .even "force" it... but please don't be too > quick to rush the elimination of IPv4 anytime soon. And lets keep MTA > sending IPs (which is server-to-server traffic) as IPv4-only, even if > they are able to receive their own customers' SMTP auth mail via IPv6. > > Otherwise, we'll be having discussions one day about how to limit WHICH > and HOW MANY IPv6 addresses can be assigned to MTAs! (hey, maybe that > isn't a bad idea either!) > > -- > Rob McEwen > IPv6 really isn't much different to IPv4. You use sites /48's rather than addresses /32's (which are effectively sites). ISP's still need to justify their address space allocations to RIR's so their isn't infinite numbers of sites that a spammer can get. -- Mark Andrews, ISC 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: marka at isc.org From hugo at slabnet.com Fri Oct 2 03:54:00 2015 From: hugo at slabnet.com (Hugo Slabbert) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2015 20:54:00 -0700 Subject: How to force rapid ipv6 adoption In-Reply-To: References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560D9DD0.2030904@Janoszka.pl> <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE@delong.com> <20151001222813.B9469391102B@rock.dv.isc.org> <20151001232613.GD123100@rootmail.cc.le.ac.uk> Message-ID: <20151002035400.GE21567@bamboo.slabnet.com> On Thu 2015-Oct-01 18:28:52 -0700, Damian Menscher via NANOG wrote: >On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 4:26 PM, Matthew Newton wrote: > >> On Thu, Oct 01, 2015 at 10:42:57PM +0000, Todd Underwood wrote: >> > it's just a new addressing protocol that happens to not work with the >> rest >> > of the internet. it's unfortunate that we made that mistake, but i guess >> > we're stuck with that now (i wish i could say something about lessons >> > learned but i don't think any one of us has learned a lesson yet). >> >> Would be really interesting to know how you would propose >> squeezing 128 bits of address data into a 32 bit field so that we >> could all continue to use IPv4 with more addresses than it's has >> available to save having to move to this new incompatible format. > > >I solved that problem a few years ago (well, kinda -- only for backend >logging, not for routing): >http://docs.guava-libraries.googlecode.com/git/javadoc/com/google/common/net/InetAddresses.html#getCoercedIPv4Address(java.net.InetAddress) Squeezing 32 bits into 128 bits is easy. Let me know how you do with squeezing 128 bits into 32 bits... > >Damian -- Hugo -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From rob at invaluement.com Fri Oct 2 03:58:12 2015 From: rob at invaluement.com (Rob McEwen) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2015 23:58:12 -0400 Subject: How to wish you hadn't forced ipv6 adoption (was "How to force rapid ipv6 adoption") In-Reply-To: <20151002034402.1201F39225D0@rock.dv.isc.org> References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560D9DD0.2030904@Janoszka.pl> <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE@delong.com> <20151001222813.B9469391102B@rock.dv.isc.org> <20151001232613.GD123100@rootmail.cc.le.ac.uk> <20151002000125.9CD573911EF5@rock.dv.isc.org> <560DF4BA.5000500@invaluement.com> <20151002034402.1201F39225D0@rock.dv.isc.org> Message-ID: <560E00D4.7090400@invaluement.com> On 10/1/2015 11:44 PM, Mark Andrews wrote: > IPv6 really isn't much different to IPv4. You use sites /48's > rather than addresses /32's (which are effectively sites). ISP's > still need to justify their address space allocations to RIR's so > their isn't infinite numbers of sites that a spammer can get. A /48 can be subdivided into 65K subnets. That is 65 *THOUSAND*... not the 256 IPs that one gets with an IPv4 /24 block. So if a somewhat legit hoster assigns various /64s to DIFFERENT customers of theirs... that is a lot of collateral damage that would be caused by listing at the /48 level, should just one customer be a bad-apple spammer, or just one legit customer have a compromised system one day. Conversely, if a more blackhat ESP did this, but it was unclear that this was a blackhat sender until much later.. then LOTS of spam would get a "free pass" as individual /64s were blacklisted AFTER-THE-FACT, with the spammy ESP still having LOTS of /64s to spare.. remember, they started with 65 THOUSAND /64 blocks for that one /48 allocation (Sure, it would eventually become clear that the whole /48 should be blacklisted). other gray-hat situations between these two extremes can be even more frustrating because you then have the same "free passes" that the blackhat ESP gets... but you can't list the whole /48 without too much collateral damage. SUMMARY: So even if you moved into blocking at the /64 level, the spammers have STILL gained an order of magnitudes advantage over the IPv4 world.... any way you slice it. And blocking at the /48 level WOULD cause too much collateral damage if don't indiscriminately. And this is assuming that individual IPs are NEVER assigned individually (or in smaller-than-/64-allocations) . (maybe that is a safe assumption? I don't know? regardless, even if that were a safe assumption, the spammers STILL have gained a massive advantage) -- Rob McEwen +1 478-475-9032 From rob at invaluement.com Fri Oct 2 04:04:37 2015 From: rob at invaluement.com (Rob McEwen) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 00:04:37 -0400 Subject: How to wish you hadn't forced ipv6 adoption (was "How to force rapid ipv6 adoption") In-Reply-To: <560E00D4.7090400@invaluement.com> References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560D9DD0.2030904@Janoszka.pl> <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE@delong.com> <20151001222813.B9469391102B@rock.dv.isc.org> <20151001232613.GD123100@rootmail.cc.le.ac.uk> <20151002000125.9CD573911EF5@rock.dv.isc.org> <560DF4BA.5000500@invaluement.com> <20151002034402.1201F39225D0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560E00D4.7090400@invaluement.com> Message-ID: <560E0255.1030607@invaluement.com> On 10/1/2015 11:58 PM, Rob McEwen wrote: > And blocking at the /48 level WOULD cause too much collateral damage > if don't indiscriminately. I meant, "if done indiscriminately" excuse my other more minor typos too. I get in a hurry and my fingers don't always type what my brain is thinking :) -- Rob McEwen +1 478-475-9032 From tagno25 at gmail.com Fri Oct 2 04:14:35 2015 From: tagno25 at gmail.com (Philip Dorr) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2015 23:14:35 -0500 Subject: How to wish you hadn't forced ipv6 adoption (was "How to force rapid ipv6 adoption") In-Reply-To: <560E00D4.7090400@invaluement.com> References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560D9DD0.2030904@Janoszka.pl> <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE@delong.com> <20151001222813.B9469391102B@rock.dv.isc.org> <20151001232613.GD123100@rootmail.cc.le.ac.uk> <20151002000125.9CD573911EF5@rock.dv.isc.org> <560DF4BA.5000500@invaluement.com> <20151002034402.1201F39225D0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560E00D4.7090400@invaluement.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 10:58 PM, Rob McEwen wrote: > On 10/1/2015 11:44 PM, Mark Andrews wrote: >> >> IPv6 really isn't much different to IPv4. You use sites /48's >> rather than addresses /32's (which are effectively sites). ISP's >> still need to justify their address space allocations to RIR's so >> their isn't infinite numbers of sites that a spammer can get. > > > A /48 can be subdivided into 65K subnets. That is 65 *THOUSAND*... not the > 256 IPs that one gets with an IPv4 /24 block. So if a somewhat legit hoster > assigns various /64s to DIFFERENT customers of theirs... that is a lot of > collateral damage that would be caused by listing at the /48 level, should > just one customer be a bad-apple spammer, or just one legit customer have a > compromised system one day. As a provider (ISP or Hosting), you should hand the customers at a minimum a /56, if not a /48. The provider should have at a minimum a /32. If the provider is only giving their customers a /64, then they deserve all the pain they receive. From marka at isc.org Fri Oct 2 04:18:58 2015 From: marka at isc.org (Mark Andrews) Date: Fri, 02 Oct 2015 14:18:58 +1000 Subject: How to wish you hadn't forced ipv6 adoption (was "How to force rapid ipv6 adoption") In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 01 Oct 2015 23:58:12 -0400." <560E00D4.7090400@invaluement.com> References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560D9DD0.2030904@Janoszka.pl> <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE@delong.com> <20151001222813.B9469391102B@rock.dv.isc.org> <20151001232613.GD123100@rootmail.cc.le.ac.uk> <20151002000125.9CD573911EF5@rock.dv.isc.org> <560DF4BA.5000500@invaluement.com> <20151002034402.1201F39225D0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560E00D4.7090400@invaluement.com> Message-ID: <20151002041858.984713922C86@rock.dv.isc.org> In message <560E00D4.7090400 at invaluement.com>, Rob McEwen writes: > On 10/1/2015 11:44 PM, Mark Andrews wrote: > > IPv6 really isn't much different to IPv4. You use sites /48's > > rather than addresses /32's (which are effectively sites). ISP's > > still need to justify their address space allocations to RIR's so > > their isn't infinite numbers of sites that a spammer can get. > > A /48 can be subdivided into 65K subnets. That is 65 *THOUSAND*... not > the 256 IPs that one gets with an IPv4 /24 block. So if a somewhat legit > hoster assigns various /64s to DIFFERENT customers of theirs... that is > a lot of collateral damage that would be caused by listing at the /48 > level, should just one customer be a bad-apple spammer, or just one > legit customer have a compromised system one day. A hoster can get /48's for each customer. Each customer is technically a seperate site. It's this stupid desire to over conserve IPv6 addresses that causes this not IPv6. > Conversely, if a more blackhat ESP did this, but it was unclear that > this was a blackhat sender until much later.. then LOTS of spam would > get a "free pass" as individual /64s were blacklisted AFTER-THE-FACT, > with the spammy ESP still having LOTS of /64s to spare.. remember, they > started with 65 THOUSAND /64 blocks for that one /48 allocation (Sure, > it would eventually become clear that the whole /48 should be blacklisted). > > other gray-hat situations between these two extremes can be even more > frustrating because you then have the same "free passes" that the > blackhat ESP gets... but you can't list the whole /48 without too much > collateral damage. > > SUMMARY: So even if you moved into blocking at the /64 level, the > spammers have STILL gained an order of magnitudes advantage over the > IPv4 world.... any way you slice it. And blocking at the /48 level WOULD > cause too much collateral damage if don't indiscriminately. > > And this is assuming that individual IPs are NEVER assigned individually > (or in smaller-than-/64-allocations) . (maybe that is a safe assumption? > I don't know? regardless, even if that were a safe assumption, the > spammers STILL have gained a massive advantage) > > -- > Rob McEwen > +1 478-475-9032 > -- Mark Andrews, ISC 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: marka at isc.org From rob at invaluement.com Fri Oct 2 04:47:00 2015 From: rob at invaluement.com (Rob McEwen) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 00:47:00 -0400 Subject: How to wish you hadn't forced ipv6 adoption (was "How to force rapid ipv6 adoption") In-Reply-To: <20151002041858.984713922C86@rock.dv.isc.org> References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560D9DD0.2030904@Janoszka.pl> <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE@delong.com> <20151001222813.B9469391102B@rock.dv.isc.org> <20151001232613.GD123100@rootmail.cc.le.ac.uk> <20151002000125.9CD573911EF5@rock.dv.isc.org> <560DF4BA.5000500@invaluement.com> <20151002034402.1201F39225D0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560E00D4.7090400@invaluement.com> <20151002041858.984713922C86@rock.dv.isc.org> Message-ID: <560E0C44.5060002@invaluement.com> On 10/2/2015 12:18 AM, Mark Andrews wrote: > A hoster can get /48's for each customer. Each customer is technically > a seperate site. It's this stupid desire to over conserve IPv6 > addresses that causes this not IPv6. In theory, yes. In practice, I'm skeptical. I think many will sub-delegate /64s Plus, nobody has yet addressed the fact that new /48s will be just so EASY to obtain since they are going to be plentiful... therefore... the LACK of scarcity will make hosters and ESP... NOT be very motivated to keep their IP space clean... as is the case now with IPv4. Also, it seems so bizarre that in order to TRY to solve this, we have to make sure that MASSIVE numbers of individual IPv6 IP addresses.. that equal numbers that my calculate can't reach (too many digits)... would all be allocated to one single combined usage scenario. Then allocating only /48s multiples that number by 65K. Mind boggling -- Rob McEwen +1 478-475-9032 From marka at isc.org Fri Oct 2 05:10:10 2015 From: marka at isc.org (Mark Andrews) Date: Fri, 02 Oct 2015 15:10:10 +1000 Subject: How to wish you hadn't forced ipv6 adoption (was "How to force rapid ipv6 adoption") In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 02 Oct 2015 00:47:00 -0400." <560E0C44.5060002@invaluement.com> References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560D9DD0.2030904@Janoszka.pl> <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE@delong.com> <20151001222813.B9469391102B@rock.dv.isc.org> <20151001232613.GD123100@rootmail.cc.le.ac.uk> <20151002000125.9CD573911EF5@rock.dv.isc.org> <560DF4BA.5000500@invaluement.com> <20151002034402.1201F39225D0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560E00D4.7090400@invaluement.com> <20151002041858.984713922C86@rock.dv.isc.org> <560E0C44.5060002@invaluement.com> Message-ID: <20151002051010.911C43923631@rock.dv.isc.org> In message <560E0C44.5060002 at invaluement.com>, Rob McEwen writes: > On 10/2/2015 12:18 AM, Mark Andrews wrote: > > A hoster can get /48's for each customer. Each customer is technically > > a seperate site. It's this stupid desire to over conserve IPv6 > > addresses that causes this not IPv6. > > In theory, yes. In practice, I'm skeptical. I think many will > sub-delegate /64s > > Plus, nobody has yet addressed the fact that new /48s will be just so > EASY to obtain since they are going to be plentiful... therefore... the > LACK of scarcity will make hosters and ESP... NOT be very motivated to > keep their IP space clean... as is the case now with IPv4. The brakes are already in place at the RIR level. At this level you can't just get more /48's with no accountability. > Also, it seems so bizarre that in order to TRY to solve this, we have to > make sure that MASSIVE numbers of individual IPv6 IP addresses.. that > equal numbers that my calculate can't reach (too many digits)... would > all be allocated to one single combined usage scenario. Then allocating > only /48s multiples that number by 65K. Mind boggling There are 281474976710656 /48's. That is what you manage, not IPv6 addresses. It's also most probably got more digits than you calculator supports. :-) Stop thinking addresses and start thinking sites. We went to 128 bit of addresses so that we could stop worrying about individual address, the sizes of subnets or working out how many addresses a site needs when handing out address blocks except in the most extreme cases. Mark > -- > Rob McEwen > +1 478-475-9032 > -- Mark Andrews, ISC 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: marka at isc.org From merlyn at geeks.org Fri Oct 2 05:46:47 2015 From: merlyn at geeks.org (Doug McIntyre) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 00:46:47 -0500 Subject: Question re session hijacking in dual stack environments w/MacOS In-Reply-To: <560A3C8F.4060306@seacom.mu> References: <560A3C8F.4060306@seacom.mu> Message-ID: <20151002054647.GA57805@geeks.org> On Tue, Sep 29, 2015 at 09:23:59AM +0200, Mark Tinka wrote: > On 26/Sep/15 16:34, David Hubbard wrote: > > Has anyone run into this? Our users on other platforms don't seem to > > have this issue; linux and MS desktops seem to just use v6 if it's > > available and v4 if not. > > I have been tracking down an issue for months where SSH'ing to some > devices (which picks IPv6 by default) from my Mac while in the office > drops the connection, forcing me to reconnect. It's random; sometimes it > happens a lot, sometimes, rarely, other times not at all. I suspect this is OSX implementing IPv6 Privacy Extensions. Where OSX generates a new random IPv6 address, applies it to the interface, and then drops the old IPv6 addresses as they stale out. Sessions in use or not. sudo sysctl -w net.inet6.ip6.use_tempaddr=0 sudo sh -c 'echo net.inet6.ip6.use_tempaddr=0 >> /etc/sysctl.conf' From rob at invaluement.com Fri Oct 2 06:09:00 2015 From: rob at invaluement.com (Rob McEwen) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 02:09:00 -0400 Subject: How to wish you hadn't forced ipv6 adoption (was "How to force rapid ipv6 adoption") In-Reply-To: <20151002051010.911C43923631@rock.dv.isc.org> References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560D9DD0.2030904@Janoszka.pl> <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE@delong.com> <20151001222813.B9469391102B@rock.dv.isc.org> <20151001232613.GD123100@rootmail.cc.le.ac.uk> <20151002000125.9CD573911EF5@rock.dv.isc.org> <560DF4BA.5000500@invaluement.com> <20151002034402.1201F39225D0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560E00D4.7090400@invaluement.com> <20151002041858.984713922C86@rock.dv.isc.org> <560E0C44.5060002@invaluement.com> <20151002051010.911C43923631@rock.dv.isc.org> Message-ID: <560E1F7C.6030808@invaluement.com> On 10/2/2015 1:10 AM, Mark Andrews wrote: > or working out how many addresses a > site needs when handing out address blocks At first, I'm with you on this.. but then when you got to the part I quoted above... it then seems like dividing lines can get really blurred here and this statement might betray your premise. A site needing more than 1 address... subtly implies different usage case scenarios... for different parts or different addresses on that block... which could slip back into... "you blocked my whole /48... but the spam was only coming from this tiny corner of the block over here (whether that be a one IP, a /64, or a /56)... and now other parts of the block that were sending out legit mail, are suffering". Likewise, sub-allocations can come into play, where a hoster is delegated a /48, but then subdivides it for various customers. -- Rob McEwen +1 478-475-9032 From cmaurand at xyonet.com Fri Oct 2 06:14:05 2015 From: cmaurand at xyonet.com (Curtis Maurand) Date: Fri, 02 Oct 2015 03:14:05 -0300 Subject: How to force rapid ipv6 adoption In-Reply-To: <20151002033056.60DF83922158@rock.dv.isc.org> References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560D844E.9010308@xyonet.com> <2BB18527-2F9C-4FEE-95DD-3F89919A8049@xyonet.com> <20151002033056.60DF83922158@rock.dv.isc.org> Message-ID: <631089C1-DFA5-477C-9538-9024184A8554@xyonet.com> You make a point, but those ipv6 addresses would not be a available to my cpe. I would agree that if your cpe is less than 5 years old, it should support ipv6. On October 2, 2015 12:30:56 AM ADT, Mark Andrews wrote: > >In message <2BB18527-2F9C-4FEE-95DD-3F89919A8049 at xyonet.com>, Curtis >Maurand wr >ites: >> If Time Warner (my ISP) put up IPv6 tomorrow, my firewall would no >longer wo >> rk. I could put up a pfsnse or vyatta box pretty quickly, but my >off the sh >> elf Cisco/Linksys home router has no ipv6 support hence the need to >replace >> the hardware. There's no firmware update for it supporting ipv6 >either. The >> re would be millions of people in the same boat. > >Total garbage that *everyone* here should recognise as total garbage. >If Time Warner turned on IPv6 your firewall would just continue to >work as it always has. TURNING ON IPv6 DOES NOT TURN OFF IPV4. > >As for millions of people needing to upgrade their CPE equipement >you really should be asking yourself if you should be rewarding >those vendors for selling you IPv4 only equipement in the first >place. If Microsoft, along with lots of other vendors could deliver >IPv6 capable equipment in 2001, your and every other CPE vendor >could have done so. Instead they sold you out of date garbage that >you happily accepted. > >Mark > >> Cheers, >> Curtis >> >> On October 1, 2015 5:44:46 PM ADT, Owen DeLong >wrote: >> > >> >> On Oct 1, 2015, at 12:06 , Curtis Maurand >> >wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On 10/1/2015 2:29 PM, Owen DeLong wrote: >> >>>> On Oct 1, 2015, at 00:39 , Baldur Norddahl >> > wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>> On 1 October 2015 at 03:26, Mark Andrews wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>>> Windows XP does IPv6 fine so long as there is a IPv4 recursive >> >>>>> server available. It's just a simple command to install IPv6. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> netsh interface ipv6 install >> >>>>> >> >>>> If the customer knew how to do that he wouldn't still be using >> >Windows XP. >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>>> Actually I don't expect Gmail and Facebook to be IPv4 only >> >forever. >> >>>>> >> >>>> Gmail and Facebook are already dual stack enabled. But I do not >see >> >>>> Facebook turning off IPv4 for a very long time. Therefore a >> >customer that >> >>>> only uses the Internet for a few basic things will be able to >get >> >along >> >>>> with being IPv4-only for a very long time. >> >>>> >> >>> Yes and no??? >> >>> >> >>> I think you are right about facebook. >> >>> >> >>> However, I think eventually the residential ISPs are going to >start >> >charging extra >> >>> for IPv4 service. Some residences may pay for it initially, but >if >> >they think there???s a >> >>> way to move away from it and the ISPs start fingerpointing to the >> >specific laggards, >> >>> you???ll see a groundswell of consumers pushing to find >alternatives. >> >>> >> >>> Owen >> >>> >> >> ipv6 is going to force a lot of consumers to replace hardware. >Worse, >> >it's not easy to set up and get right as ipv4 is. >> >> >> >> --Curtis >> > >> >You???re going to have to elaborate on that one???. I think IPv6 is >> >actually quite a bit easier than IPv4, so please explicate >> >in what ways it is harder to set up and get right? >> > >> >For the average household, it???s plug the IPv6-capable router in >and let >> >it go. >> > >> >For more advanced environments, it might take nearly as much effort >as >> >IPv4 and the unfamiliarity might add a couple >> >of additional challenges the first time, but once you get past that, >> >IPv6 has a lot of features that actually make it >> >easier than IPv4. >> > >> >Not having to deal with NAT being just one of the big ones. >> > >> >Owen >> >> -- >> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. >-- >Mark Andrews, ISC >1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia >PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: marka at isc.org -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. From marka at isc.org Fri Oct 2 07:01:52 2015 From: marka at isc.org (Mark Andrews) Date: Fri, 02 Oct 2015 17:01:52 +1000 Subject: How to wish you hadn't forced ipv6 adoption (was "How to force rapid ipv6 adoption") In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 02 Oct 2015 02:09:00 -0400." <560E1F7C.6030808@invaluement.com> References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560D9DD0.2030904@Janoszka.pl> <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE@delong.com> <20151001222813.B9469391102B@rock.dv.isc.org> <20151001232613.GD123100@rootmail.cc.le.ac.uk> <20151002000125.9CD573911EF5@rock.dv.isc.org> <560DF4BA.5000500@invaluement.com> <20151002034402.1201F39225D0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560E00D4.7090400@invaluement.com> <20151002041858.984713922C86@rock.dv.isc.org> <560E0C44.5060002@invaluement.com> <20151002051010.911C43923631@rock.dv.isc.org> <560E1F7C.6030808@invaluement.c om> Message-ID: <20151002070153.0EE3C39246F0@rock.dv.isc.org> In message <560E1F7C.6030808 at invaluement.com>, Rob McEwen writes: > On 10/2/2015 1:10 AM, Mark Andrews wrote: > > or working out how many addresses a > > site needs when handing out address blocks > > At first, I'm with you on this.. but then when you got to the part I > quoted above... > > it then seems like dividing lines can get really blurred here and this > statement might betray your premise. A site needing more than 1 > address... subtly implies different usage case scenarios... for > different parts or different addresses on that block... which could slip > back into... "you blocked my whole /48... but the spam was only coming > from this tiny corner of the block over here (whether that be a one IP, > a /64, or a /56)... and now other parts of the block that were sending > out legit mail, are suffering". > > Likewise, sub-allocations can come into play, where a hoster is > delegated a /48, but then subdivides it for various customers. A hoster is a LIR. It isn't the end customer. > -- > Rob McEwen > +1 478-475-9032 > -- Mark Andrews, ISC 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: marka at isc.org From Grzegorz at Janoszka.pl Fri Oct 2 07:43:44 2015 From: Grzegorz at Janoszka.pl (Grzegorz Janoszka) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 09:43:44 +0200 Subject: How to force rapid ipv6 adoption In-Reply-To: <2BB18527-2F9C-4FEE-95DD-3F89919A8049@xyonet.com> References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560D844E.9010308@xyonet.com> <2BB18527-2F9C-4FEE-95DD-3F89919A8049@xyonet.com> Message-ID: <560E35B0.2080505@Janoszka.pl> On 02/10/2015 04:52, Curtis Maurand wrote: > If Time Warner (my ISP) put up IPv6 tomorrow, my firewall would no longer work. I could put up a pfsnse or vyatta box pretty quickly, but my off the shelf Cisco/Linksys home router has no ipv6 support hence the need to replace the hardware. There's no firmware update for it supporting ipv6 either. There would be millions of people in the same boat. There should be a software for your box which supports IPv6 - DD-WRT or anything similar. However I agree that it is not a solutions for millions of Johnny Sixpacks. -- Grzegorz Janoszka From Valdis.Kletnieks at vt.edu Fri Oct 2 07:44:31 2015 From: Valdis.Kletnieks at vt.edu (Valdis.Kletnieks at vt.edu) Date: Fri, 02 Oct 2015 03:44:31 -0400 Subject: How to wish you hadn't forced ipv6 adoption (was "How to force rapid ipv6 adoption") In-Reply-To: <560E1F7C.6030808@invaluement.com> References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560D9DD0.2030904@Janoszka.pl> <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE@delong.com> <20151001222813.B9469391102B@rock.dv.isc.org> <20151001232613.GD123100@rootmail.cc.le.ac.uk> <20151002000125.9CD573911EF5@rock.dv.isc.org> <560DF4BA.5000500@invaluement.com> <20151002034402.1201F39225D0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560E00D4.7090400@invaluement.com> <20151002041858.984713922C86@rock.dv.isc.org> <560E0C44.5060002@invaluement.com> <20151002051010.911C43923631@rock.dv.isc.org> <560E1F7C.6030808@invaluement.com> Message-ID: <132587.1443771871@turing-police.cc.vt.edu> On Fri, 02 Oct 2015 02:09:00 -0400, Rob McEwen said: > Likewise, sub-allocations can come into play, where a hoster is > delegated a /48, but then subdivides it for various customers. So they apply for a /32 and give each customer a /48. A hoster getting *just* a /48 is about as silly as a hoster getting a /32 of IPv4 and NAT'ing their customers. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 848 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Valdis.Kletnieks at vt.edu Fri Oct 2 07:45:33 2015 From: Valdis.Kletnieks at vt.edu (Valdis.Kletnieks at vt.edu) Date: Fri, 02 Oct 2015 03:45:33 -0400 Subject: How to force rapid ipv6 adoption In-Reply-To: References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560D9DD0.2030904@Janoszka.pl> <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE@delong.com> <20151001222813.B9469391102B@rock.dv.isc.org> <20151001232613.GD123100@rootmail.cc.le.ac.uk> <20151002000125.9CD573911EF5@rock.dv.isc.org> Message-ID: <132659.1443771933@turing-police.cc.vt.edu> On Fri, 02 Oct 2015 00:16:50 -0000, Todd Underwood said: > yes. huh. funny about that, right? what do you think accounts for that? > *why* do you think that *17* *years* later people are still just barely > using this thing. The fact that dumping too much CO2 into the atmosphere is a Bad Idea was equally well understood 17 years ago. And yet we *still* have Senators with snowballs denying it. > so here's my view: if you have some technical solution for a networking > problem that no one wants for 17 years, you should really probably think > about that. you might not even have to wait 17 years to figure out that > something might be wrong. See RFC1335. The problem was recognized back in 1992 - which is why the IETF chartered the whole IPng thing. Some of us recognized it would be less painful to get things working sooner rather than later - and some didn't. Now, if you want to be the Senator with the snowball, be my guest. It may make for interesting TV, but I can hardly recommend it as a busines model. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 848 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Valdis.Kletnieks at vt.edu Fri Oct 2 07:46:40 2015 From: Valdis.Kletnieks at vt.edu (Valdis.Kletnieks at vt.edu) Date: Fri, 02 Oct 2015 03:46:40 -0400 Subject: Question re session hijacking in dual stack environments w/MacOS In-Reply-To: <20151002054647.GA57805@geeks.org> References: <560A3C8F.4060306@seacom.mu> <20151002054647.GA57805@geeks.org> Message-ID: <132752.1443772000@turing-police.cc.vt.edu> On Fri, 02 Oct 2015 00:46:47 -0500, Doug McIntyre said: > I suspect this is OSX implementing IPv6 Privacy Extensions. Where OSX > generates a new random IPv6 address, applies it to the interface, and then > drops the old IPv6 addresses as they stale out. Sessions in use or not. Isn't the OS supposed to wait for the last user of the old address to close their socket before dropping it? > sudo sysctl -w net.inet6.ip6.use_tempaddr=0 > > sudo sh -c 'echo net.inet6.ip6.use_tempaddr=0 >> /etc/sysctl.conf' > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 848 bytes Desc: not available URL: From marka at isc.org Fri Oct 2 08:16:54 2015 From: marka at isc.org (Mark Andrews) Date: Fri, 02 Oct 2015 18:16:54 +1000 Subject: Question re session hijacking in dual stack environments w/MacOS In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 02 Oct 2015 03:46:40 -0400." <132752.1443772000@turing-police.cc.vt.edu> References: <560A3C8F.4060306@seacom.mu> <20151002054647.GA57805@geeks.org> <132752.1443772000@turing-police.cc.vt.edu> Message-ID: <20151002081654.CAF973924D2B@rock.dv.isc.org> In message <132752.1443772000 at turing-police.cc.vt.edu>, Valdis.Kletnieks at vt.edu writes: > On Fri, 02 Oct 2015 00:46:47 -0500, Doug McIntyre said: > > > I suspect this is OSX implementing IPv6 Privacy Extensions. Where OSX > > generates a new random IPv6 address, applies it to the interface, and then > > drops the old IPv6 addresses as they stale out. Sessions in use or not. > > Isn't the OS supposed to wait for the last user of the old address to close > their socket before dropping it? Bowser talks to server with temp address 1. Sockets close. New temp address generated. User click submit. New temp address used. It is stupid web site design to assume that addresses will be stable even within a session. > > sudo sysctl -w net.inet6.ip6.use_tempaddr=0 > > > > sudo sh -c 'echo net.inet6.ip6.use_tempaddr=0 >> /etc/sysctl.conf' -- Mark Andrews, ISC 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: marka at isc.org From haegar at sdinet.de Fri Oct 2 10:53:02 2015 From: haegar at sdinet.de (Sven-Haegar Koch) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 12:53:02 +0200 (CEST) Subject: How to wish you hadn't forced ipv6 adoption (was "How to force rapid ipv6 adoption") In-Reply-To: <20151002070153.0EE3C39246F0@rock.dv.isc.org> References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560D9DD0.2030904@Janoszka.pl> <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE@delong.com> <20151001222813.B9469391102B@rock.dv.isc.org> <20151001232613.GD123100@rootmail.cc.le.ac.uk> <20151002000125.9CD573911EF5@rock.dv.isc.org> <560DF4BA.5000500@invaluement.com> <20151002034402.1201F39225D0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560E00D4.7090400@invaluement.com> <20151002041858.984713922C86@rock.dv.isc.org> <560E0C44.5060002@invaluement.com> <20151002051010.911C43923631@rock.dv.isc.org> <560E1F7C.6030808@invaluement.c om> <20151002070153.0EE3C39246F0@rock.dv.isc.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 2 Oct 2015, Mark Andrews wrote: > > Likewise, sub-allocations can come into play, where a hoster is > > delegated a /48, but then subdivides it for various customers. > > A hoster is a LIR. It isn't the end customer. I think you are wrong here for a lot of szenarios. Today we have for example small web-agency gets /25 from datacenter hoster (LIR), puts two servers there, couple of VM, and then rents those VM to its 50 customers. >From the datacenter hoster point they would perhaps get one /48... c'ya sven-haegar -- Three may keep a secret, if two of them are dead. - Ben F. From mcn4 at leicester.ac.uk Fri Oct 2 10:58:51 2015 From: mcn4 at leicester.ac.uk (Matthew Newton) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 11:58:51 +0100 Subject: How to force rapid ipv6 adoption In-Reply-To: <9FB08507-F739-40CA-AA98-6D35B61F7C95@delong.com> References: <560D9DD0.2030904@Janoszka.pl> <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE@delong.com> <20151001222813.B9469391102B@rock.dv.isc.org> <20151001232613.GD123100@rootmail.cc.le.ac.uk> <55A3A845-751A-4F21-BC6E-8549DD7BEFCB@delong.com> <9FB08507-F739-40CA-AA98-6D35B61F7C95@delong.com> Message-ID: <20151002105851.GH54957@rootmail.cc.le.ac.uk> On Thu, Oct 01, 2015 at 05:58:59PM -0700, Owen DeLong wrote: > Still, Todd, ignoring the other parts, the least you can do is > answer this simple question: > > How would you implement a 128-bit address that is backwards > compatible with existing IPv4 hosts requiring no software > modification on those hosts? Details matter here. Handwaving > about ASN32 doesn?t cut it. It was a semi-serious question, hence the smiley. I'd be genuinely interested if there is a sensible way to do the above. I can't think of one. Sometimes you just have to say something is broken and start again. I think fitting 128 bit addresses into something only designed for 32 bit is one of those. The resulting enchancement is likely to be such a cludge that we'd be moaning about it for decades to come, and would still require everything to be upgraded (e.g. router ASICs that only look at 32 bits), so why not upgrade to something cleanly designed from the start? There's much wrong with IPv6 as well, but it's a shedload nicer than a hack on something not designed to support it. I've run IPv6 on my home network for over 10 years. It's not hard. The only real reason we've not done a bit rollout at work yet is that there are always other things that take priority, not that it's actually that difficult to do. Matthew -- Matthew Newton, Ph.D. Systems Specialist, Infrastructure Services, I.T. Services, University of Leicester, Leicester LE1 7RH, United Kingdom For IT help contact helpdesk extn. 2253, From nanog at ics-il.net Fri Oct 2 11:14:24 2015 From: nanog at ics-il.net (Mike Hammett) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 06:14:24 -0500 (CDT) Subject: How to wish you hadn't forced ipv6 adoption (was "How to force rapid ipv6 adoption") In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <335329195.1393.1443784549610.JavaMail.mhammett@ThunderFuck> Not all providers are large enough to justify a /32. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Philip Dorr" To: "Rob McEwen" Cc: "nanog group" Sent: Thursday, October 1, 2015 11:14:35 PM Subject: Re: How to wish you hadn't forced ipv6 adoption (was "How to force rapid ipv6 adoption") On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 10:58 PM, Rob McEwen wrote: > On 10/1/2015 11:44 PM, Mark Andrews wrote: >> >> IPv6 really isn't much different to IPv4. You use sites /48's >> rather than addresses /32's (which are effectively sites). ISP's >> still need to justify their address space allocations to RIR's so >> their isn't infinite numbers of sites that a spammer can get. > > > A /48 can be subdivided into 65K subnets. That is 65 *THOUSAND*... not the > 256 IPs that one gets with an IPv4 /24 block. So if a somewhat legit hoster > assigns various /64s to DIFFERENT customers of theirs... that is a lot of > collateral damage that would be caused by listing at the /48 level, should > just one customer be a bad-apple spammer, or just one legit customer have a > compromised system one day. As a provider (ISP or Hosting), you should hand the customers at a minimum a /56, if not a /48. The provider should have at a minimum a /32. If the provider is only giving their customers a /64, then they deserve all the pain they receive. From merlyn at geeks.org Fri Oct 2 11:58:43 2015 From: merlyn at geeks.org (Doug McIntyre) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 06:58:43 -0500 Subject: Question re session hijacking in dual stack environments w/MacOS In-Reply-To: <132752.1443772000@turing-police.cc.vt.edu> References: <560A3C8F.4060306@seacom.mu> <20151002054647.GA57805@geeks.org> <132752.1443772000@turing-police.cc.vt.edu> Message-ID: <20151002115843.GA58940@geeks.org> On Fri, Oct 02, 2015 at 03:46:40AM -0400, Valdis.Kletnieks at vt.edu wrote: > On Fri, 02 Oct 2015 00:46:47 -0500, Doug McIntyre said: > > > I suspect this is OSX implementing IPv6 Privacy Extensions. Where OSX > > generates a new random IPv6 address, applies it to the interface, and then > > drops the old IPv6 addresses as they stale out. Sessions in use or not. > > Isn't the OS supposed to wait for the last user of the old address to close > their socket before dropping it? In my experience, no, it doesn't. Ie. the main reason I disable it is because my ssh sessions hung after some period of time, so ssh had sockets open, but yet the IPv6 addresses kept rotating out. Disabling it definately made the ssh sessions stable on OSX. Apple codes to the masses. Average web browser user or mail client won't care, that is all they test against. Not people that leave ssh sessions open for days to weeks at a time. From mel at beckman.org Fri Oct 2 13:35:41 2015 From: mel at beckman.org (Mel Beckman) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 13:35:41 +0000 Subject: How to wish you hadn't forced ipv6 adoption (was "How to force rapid ipv6 adoption") In-Reply-To: <335329195.1393.1443784549610.JavaMail.mhammett@ThunderFuck> References: , <335329195.1393.1443784549610.JavaMail.mhammett@ThunderFuck> Message-ID: Every provider gets a /32, according to ARIN. IPv6 - INITIAL ALLOCATIONS Type of Resource Request Criteria to Receive Resource ISP Initial Allocation /32 minimum allocation (/36 upon request) NRPM 6.5.1 * Have a previously justified IPv4 ISP allocation from ARIN or one of its predecessor registries, or * Qualify for an IPv4 ISP allocation under current policy, or * Intend to immediately multi-home, or * Provide a reasonable technical justification, including a plan showing projected assignments for one, two, and five year periods, with a minimum of 50 assignments within five years IPv6 Multiple Discrete Networks /32 minimum allocation (/36 upon request) NRPM 6.11 * be a single entity and not a consortium of smaller independent entities -mel via cell On Oct 2, 2015, at 4:15 AM, Mike Hammett > wrote: Not all providers are large enough to justify a /32. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Philip Dorr" > To: "Rob McEwen" > Cc: "nanog group" > Sent: Thursday, October 1, 2015 11:14:35 PM Subject: Re: How to wish you hadn't forced ipv6 adoption (was "How to force rapid ipv6 adoption") On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 10:58 PM, Rob McEwen > wrote: On 10/1/2015 11:44 PM, Mark Andrews wrote: IPv6 really isn't much different to IPv4. You use sites /48's rather than addresses /32's (which are effectively sites). ISP's still need to justify their address space allocations to RIR's so their isn't infinite numbers of sites that a spammer can get. A /48 can be subdivided into 65K subnets. That is 65 *THOUSAND*... not the 256 IPs that one gets with an IPv4 /24 block. So if a somewhat legit hoster assigns various /64s to DIFFERENT customers of theirs... that is a lot of collateral damage that would be caused by listing at the /48 level, should just one customer be a bad-apple spammer, or just one legit customer have a compromised system one day. As a provider (ISP or Hosting), you should hand the customers at a minimum a /56, if not a /48. The provider should have at a minimum a /32. If the provider is only giving their customers a /64, then they deserve all the pain they receive. From list at satchell.net Fri Oct 2 13:44:57 2015 From: list at satchell.net (Stephen Satchell) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 06:44:57 -0700 Subject: How to wish you hadn't forced ipv6 adoption (was "How to force rapid ipv6 adoption") In-Reply-To: <132587.1443771871@turing-police.cc.vt.edu> References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560D9DD0.2030904@Janoszka.pl> <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE@delong.com> <20151001222813.B9469391102B@rock.dv.isc.org> <20151001232613.GD123100@rootmail.cc.le.ac.uk> <20151002000125.9CD573911EF5@rock.dv.isc.org> <560DF4BA.5000500@invaluement.com> <20151002034402.1201F39225D0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560E00D4.7090400@invaluement.com> <20151002041858.984713922C86@rock.dv.isc.org> <560E0C44.5060002@invaluement.com> <20151002051010.911C43923631@rock.dv.isc.org> <560E1F7C.6030808@invaluement.com> <132587.1443771871@turing-police.cc.vt.edu> Message-ID: <560E8A59.2080205@satchell.net> On 10/02/2015 12:44 AM, Valdis.Kletnieks at vt.edu wrote: > On Fri, 02 Oct 2015 02:09:00 -0400, Rob McEwen said: > >> Likewise, sub-allocations can come into play, where a hoster is >> delegated a /48, but then subdivides it for various customers. > > So they apply for a /32 and give each customer a /48. > > A hoster getting *just* a /48 is about as silly as a hoster > getting a /32 of IPv4 and NAT'ing their customers. > I agree, for a web hosting operation, getting an allocation smaller than a /32 doesn't make sense. But...now I ask this question: WHY a /48 per customer? I used to be a web host guy, and the rule was one IPv4 address per co-location customer or dedicated-server customer -- maybe two -- and shared-IP HTTP for those customers hosted on "house" servers with multiple sites on them. We had a couple of shared-hosting server with 64 IPv4 addresses each to support SSL sites with customer-provided SSL certificates.. OLD STYLE If a customer wanted more than one IPv4 address, he had to justify it so we could copy the justification to our ARIN paperwork. A /24 was right out, because the *only* people requesting that much IPv4 space were spammers. The largest legit co-location IPv4 customer allocation, because he had enough servers in his cage and sufficient justification to warrant it, was a /26 . Which I SWIPped. Which I treated as a completely separate subnet. Which was on its own VLAN. Which used separate 10base-T Ethernet interfaces on my edge routers to provide hard flow control and traffic monitoring. THAT WAS THEN, THIS IS NOW I can see, in shared hosting, where each customer gets one IPv6 address to support HTTPS "properly". Each physical server typically hosts 300-400 web sites comfortably, so assigning a /112 to each of those servers appears to make sense. This is particularly true now that there is a push for "https everywhere". Web hosting isn't going to be a downstream link for IoT, so the need for "massive" amounts of IPv6 addressing space is simply not there. From nanog at ics-il.net Fri Oct 2 13:45:43 2015 From: nanog at ics-il.net (Mike Hammett) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 08:45:43 -0500 (CDT) Subject: How to wish you hadn't forced ipv6 adoption (was "How to force rapid ipv6 adoption") In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <855765269.1724.1443793613961.JavaMail.mhammett@ThunderFuck> I may be able to justify it to ARIN, but I can't make a quadrupling of ARIN's fees justifiable to me. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mel Beckman" To: "Mike Hammett" Cc: "nanog group" Sent: Friday, October 2, 2015 8:35:41 AM Subject: Re: How to wish you hadn't forced ipv6 adoption (was "How to force rapid ipv6 adoption") Every provider gets a /32, according to ARIN. IPv6 - INITIAL ALLOCATIONS Type of Resource Request Criteria to Receive Resource ISP Initial Allocation /32 minimum allocation (/36 upon request) NRPM 6.5.1 * Have a previously justified IPv4 ISP allocation from ARIN or one of its predecessor registries, or * Qualify for an IPv4 ISP allocation under current policy, or * Intend to immediately multi-home, or * Provide a reasonable technical justification, including a plan showing projected assignments for one, two, and five year periods, with a minimum of 50 assignments within five years IPv6 Multiple Discrete Networks /32 minimum allocation (/36 upon request) NRPM 6.11 * be a single entity and not a consortium of smaller independent entities -mel via cell On Oct 2, 2015, at 4:15 AM, Mike Hammett < nanog at ics-il.net > wrote: Not all providers are large enough to justify a /32. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Philip Dorr" < tagno25 at gmail.com > To: "Rob McEwen" < rob at invaluement.com > Cc: "nanog group" < nanog at nanog.org > Sent: Thursday, October 1, 2015 11:14:35 PM Subject: Re: How to wish you hadn't forced ipv6 adoption (was "How to force rapid ipv6 adoption") On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 10:58 PM, Rob McEwen < rob at invaluement.com > wrote:
On 10/1/2015 11:44 PM, Mark Andrews wrote:
IPv6 really isn't much different to IPv4. You use sites /48's
rather than addresses /32's (which are effectively sites). ISP's
still need to justify their address space allocations to RIR's so
their isn't infinite numbers of sites that a spammer can get.
A /48 can be subdivided into 65K subnets. That is 65 *THOUSAND*... not the
256 IPs that one gets with an IPv4 /24 block. So if a somewhat legit hoster
assigns various /64s to DIFFERENT customers of theirs... that is a lot of
collateral damage that would be caused by listing at the /48 level, should
just one customer be a bad-apple spammer, or just one legit customer have a
compromised system one day.
As a provider (ISP or Hosting), you should hand the customers at a minimum a /56, if not a /48. The provider should have at a minimum a /32. If the provider is only giving their customers a /64, then they deserve all the pain they receive.
From cma at cmadams.net Fri Oct 2 13:53:53 2015 From: cma at cmadams.net (Chris Adams) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 08:53:53 -0500 Subject: How to wish you hadn't forced ipv6 adoption (was "How to force rapid ipv6 adoption") In-Reply-To: <560E8A59.2080205@satchell.net> References: <560DF4BA.5000500@invaluement.com> <20151002034402.1201F39225D0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560E00D4.7090400@invaluement.com> <20151002041858.984713922C86@rock.dv.isc.org> <560E0C44.5060002@invaluement.com> <20151002051010.911C43923631@rock.dv.isc.org> <560E1F7C.6030808@invaluement.com> <132587.1443771871@turing-police.cc.vt.edu> <560E8A59.2080205@satchell.net> Message-ID: <20151002135353.GA8614@cmadams.net> Once upon a time, Stephen Satchell said: > THAT WAS THEN, THIS IS NOW > > I can see, in shared hosting, where each customer gets one IPv6 > address to support HTTPS "properly". All the browsers in common use (except IE on XP, which shouldn't be in common use) handle SNI just fine, so HTTPS no longer requires an IP per site. Shared web hosting servers can do just fine with one IP now. -- Chris Adams From marco at paesani.it Fri Oct 2 14:06:15 2015 From: marco at paesani.it (Marco Paesani) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 16:06:15 +0200 Subject: Wrong use of 100.64.0.0/10 Message-ID: Hi, probably this route is wrong, see RFC 6598, as you can see: show route 100.64.0.0/10 inet.0: 563509 destinations, 1528595 routes (561239 active, 0 holddown, 3898 hidden) + = Active Route, - = Last Active, * = Both 100.100.1.0/24 *[BGP/170] 2d 14:46:05, MED 100, localpref 100 AS path: 5580 9498 9730 I, validation-state: unverified > to 78.152.54.166 via ge-2/0/0.0 Do you have some idea ? Ciao, -- Marco Paesani MPAE Srl Skype: mpaesani Mobile: +39 348 6019349 Success depends on the right choice ! Email: marco at paesani.it From cortana5 at gmail.com Fri Oct 2 03:18:28 2015 From: cortana5 at gmail.com (cortana5 at gmail.com) Date: Fri, 02 Oct 2015 03:18:28 +0000 Subject: How to wish you hadn't forced ipv6 adoption (was "How to force rapid ipv6 adoption") In-Reply-To: <560DF4BA.5000500@invaluement.com> References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560D9DD0.2030904@Janoszka.pl> <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE@delong.com> <20151001222813.B9469391102B@rock.dv.isc.org> <20151001232613.GD123100@rootmail.cc.le.ac.uk> <20151002000125.9CD573911EF5@rock.dv.isc.org> <560DF4BA.5000500@invaluement.com> Message-ID: Greetings, Excuse my probable ignorance of such matters, but would it not then be preferred to create a whitelist of proven Email servers/ip's , and just drop the rest? Granted, one would have to create a process to vet anyone creating a new email server, but would that not be easier then trying to create and maintain new blacklists? - Blake On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 8:07 PM Rob McEwen wrote: > RE: How to wish you hadn't rushed ipv6 adoption > > Force the whole world to switch to IPv6 within the foreseeable future, > abolish IPv4... all within several years or even within 50 years... and > then watch spam filtering worldwide get knocked back to the stone ages > while spammers and blackhat and grayhat ESPs laugh their way to the > bank... that is, until e-mail becomes unworkable and is virtually > abandoned. > > I welcome IPv6 adoption in the near future in all but one area: the > sending IPs of valid mail servers. Those need to stay IPv4 for as long > as reasonably possible. > > It turns out... the scarcity of IPv4 IPs in THIS area... is a feature, > not a bug. > > That scarcity makes it harder for spammers to acquire new IPs, and they > therefore pay a price for the ones they burn through via their > spam-sending. Likewise, scarcity of IPv4 IPs *forces* ESPs, hosters, and > ISPs to try HARD to keep their IPs clean. THEY pay a price when a > bad-apple customer soils up their IP space. > > In contrast, with IPv6, order of magnitude MORE IPs are easily acquired, > and order of magnitude more are in each allocation. It is truly a > spammer's dream come true. This reminds me about a recent article Brian > Krebs wrote about a famous hoster who slowly drove their business into > the ground by allowing in the kind of spammers that look a little legit > at first glance. (like the "CAN-SPAM" spammers who are doing nothing > illegal, follow the law, but still send to purchase lists). But even > this hoster's bank account was bursting at the seams with cash due to a > booming business, their IP space's reputation was slowly turning in > crap. Eventually, they started losing even their spammer customers. > Then, their CEO made a decision to get serious about abuse and keeping > spammers off of their network---and this turned into a success story > where they now run a successful hosting business without the spammers. > In an IPv6 world, I wonder if they would have ever even cared? There > would always be new fresh IPv6 IPs to acquire! There would never have > been the "motivation" to turn things around. There would always be new > IPv6 IPs to move on to. (or at least enough available to "kick the can > down the road" and not worry about any long term repercussions). It was > ONLY when this CEO started seeing even the spammers start to leave him > (along with some SpamHaus blacklistings)! that he realized that his IP > reputation would eventually get so bad that he be virtually out of > business. It was ONLY then that he decided to make changes. Would this > have happened in an all-IPv6 world? I highly doubt it! He'd just keep > moving on to fresh IPs! > > The cumulative sum total of all those hosters and ESPs downward > spiraling in an IPv6 world... could cause the spam problem to GREATLY > accelerate. > > Meanwhile, sender IP blacklists would become useless in an IPv6 world > because the spammer now has enough IPs (in many scenarios) to EVEN SEND > ONE SPAM PER IP, never to have to use that one IP again FOR YEARS, if > ever. So a blacklisting is ineffective... and actually helps the spammer > to listwash spamtrap addresses... since the ONE listing maps to a single > recipient address. Now the sender's IP blacklist is even less effective > and is helping the spammers more than it is blocking spam! And did I > mention that the sender's IP list has bloated so large that it is hard > to host in DNS and hard to distribute--and most of the listings are now > useless anyways! > > Yes, there are other types of spam filtering... including content > filtering techniques. But in the real world, these only work because the > heavy lifting is ALREADY done by the sender's IP blacklist. The vast > majority of this worldwide "heavy lifting" is done by > "zen.spamhaus.org". If many of the largest ISPs suddenly lost access to > Zen, some such filters would be in huge trouble.... brought down to > their knees. Now imagine that all the other sending-IP blacklists are > gone too? In that spammer's dream scenario, the spammer has upgraded to > a Lamborghini, while the spam filters have reverted back to the horse > and buggy. Serious, that analogy isn't the slightest bit of an > exaggeration. > > Yes, you can STILL have your toaster and refrigerator and car send mail > from an IPv6 address... they would just need to SMTP-Authenticate to a > valid mail server... via an IPv6 connection... yet where that valid MTA > would then send their mail to another MTA via IPv4. Since the number of > IPv4 IPs needed for such valid mail servers is actually very, very small > (relatively speaking), then it isn't a big problem for THOSE to get IPv4 > addresses, at a trivial cost. We might even see IPv4 open up a bit as > OTHER services move to IPv6. IPv6 addresses NOT being able to send > directly to the e-mail recipient's IPv4 mail servers might actually help > cut down on botnet spam, which is an added plus! (whereas those IPv6's > IPv4 predecessors sometimes could send that botnet spam directly to the > recipient's mail server). > > So push IPv6 all you want.. .even "force" it... but please don't be too > quick to rush the elimination of IPv4 anytime soon. And lets keep MTA > sending IPs (which is server-to-server traffic) as IPv4-only, even if > they are able to receive their own customers' SMTP auth mail via IPv6. > > Otherwise, we'll be having discussions one day about how to limit WHICH > and HOW MANY IPv6 addresses can be assigned to MTAs! (hey, maybe that > isn't a bad idea either!) > > -- > Rob McEwen > > From aojea at hotmail.com Fri Oct 2 11:40:25 2015 From: aojea at hotmail.com (Antonio Ojea Garcia) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 13:40:25 +0200 Subject: wanted: tool for traffic generation / characteristics / monitoring In-Reply-To: <20151001201119.GA27584@Mail.DDoS-Mitigator.net> References: <560D3803.7020603@kit.edu> <20151001201119.GA27584@Mail.DDoS-Mitigator.net> Message-ID: I guess you are looking for something like this http://traffic.comics.unina.it/software/ITG/ D-ITG (Distributed Internet Traffic Generator) is a platform capable to > produce traffic at packet level accurately replicating appropriate > stochastic processes for both IDT (*Inter Departure Time*) and PS (*Packet > Size*) random variables (*exponential, uniform, cauchy, normal, pareto, > ...*). > > 2015-10-01 22:11 GMT+02:00 alvin nanog : > > hi matthias > > On 10/01/15 at 03:41pm, Matthias Flittner wrote: > > Dear colleagues, > > > > Currently we are looking for a magic tool with which it is possible to > > generate specific (realistic) traffic patterns between client and server > > to analyze (monitor) traffic characteristics (jitter, delay, inter > > arrival times, etc.). > > generating traffic and monitoring traffic is usually not done > by the same apps .... there's hundreds of monitoring apps > and hundreds of traffic generators > > delay is done very nicely by dummynet in FreeBSD or > (untested by me ) with NS3 in linux > > i don't understand simulating jitter, but, one can always use > "delay + random number" > > > It would be good if that wanted tool is not only able to generate > > different traffic patterns > > if you want to play with the headers ... that'd imply playing with > nmap/hping3/socat and dozens of other equivalent apps > > if you're just trying to flood the wire ... nc/socat/iperf etc > > > but also is able to collect different traffic > > metrics over time. So that it is possible to create catchy plots. :) > > "what metrics" you want to collect and how to you want to see it > would dictate which apps you'd be using > - tcp queue/buffers > - dropped packets > - delays > - retries > - udp vs tcp vs icmp vs ... > - stuff ... > > xmit/recv buffers in the hardware, default buffers in the OS and > buffers in the software apps must all be tuned to the same gigE > or 10gigE speeds otherwise, whacky stuff will happen > > for "catchy plots", you'd want gnuplot so you can (infinitely) zoom in > into the section you want to see dot-by-dot > > for big picture ... netstat, ntop, (not much info) mrtg, etc, etc > > big list of apps > Packet-Craft.net/Apps > > > Any hints or links would be greatly appreciated. > > if you're a proficient python'er, you'd probably like scapy > which can do everything you'd need to customize any packet > > magic pixie dust > alvin > # > # Packet-Craft.net/Apps > # > > From Steve.Mikulasik at civeo.com Fri Oct 2 14:27:29 2015 From: Steve.Mikulasik at civeo.com (Steve Mikulasik) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 14:27:29 +0000 Subject: How to force rapid ipv6 adoption In-Reply-To: <20151002000125.9CD573911EF5@rock.dv.isc.org> References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560D9DD0.2030904@Janoszka.pl> <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE@delong.com> <20151001222813.B9469391102B@rock.dv.isc.org> <20151001232613.GD123100@rootmail.cc.le.ac.uk> <20151002000125.9CD573911EF5@rock.dv.isc.org> Message-ID: I think more focus needs to be for carriers to deliver dual stack to their customers door step, whether they demand/use it or not. Small ISPs are probably in the best position to do this and will help push the big boys along with time. If we follow the network effect (reason why IPv4 lives and IPv6 is slowly growing), IPv6 needs more nodes, all other efforts are meaningless if they do not result in more users having IPv6 delivered to their door. I think people get too lost in the weeds when they start focusing on device support, home router support, user knowledge, etc. Just get it working to the people and we can figure out the rest later. -----Original Message----- From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces at nanog.org] On Behalf Of Mark Andrews Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2015 6:01 PM To: Matthew Newton Cc: nanog at nanog.org Subject: Re: How to force rapid ipv6 adoption In message <20151001232613.GD123100 at rootmail.cc.le.ac.uk>, Matthew Newton writes: Additionally it is now a OLD addressing protocol. We are about to see young adults that have never lived in a world without IPv6. It may not have been universally available when they were born but it was available. There are definitely school leavers that have never lived in a world where IPv6 did not exist. My daughter will be one of them next year when she finishes year 12. IPv6 is 7 months older than she is. Some of us have been running IPv6 in production for over a decade now and developing products that support IPv6 even longer. We have had 17 years to build up a universal IPv6 network. It should have been done by now. Mark > -- > Matthew Newton, Ph.D. > > Systems Specialist, Infrastructure Services, I.T. Services, University > of Leicester, Leicester LE1 7RH, United Kingdom > > For IT help contact helpdesk extn. 2253, -- Mark Andrews, ISC 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: marka at isc.org From jgreco at ns.sol.net Fri Oct 2 15:36:08 2015 From: jgreco at ns.sol.net (Joe Greco) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 10:36:08 -0500 (CDT) Subject: How to wish you hadn't forced ipv6 adoption (was "How to force In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <201510021536.t92Fa8jl011205@aurora.sol.net> > Greetings, > > Excuse my probable ignorance of such matters, but would it not then be > preferred to create a whitelist of proven Email servers/ip's , and just > drop the rest? Granted, one would have to create a process to vet anyone > creating a new email server, but would that not be easier then trying to > create and maintain new blacklists? That hasn't worked spectacularly well even under IPv4. There's no reason to think it'd magically work better under v6. ... JG -- Joe Greco - sol.net Network Services - Milwaukee, WI - http://www.sol.net "We call it the 'one bite at the apple' rule. Give me one chance [and] then I won't contact you again." - Direct Marketing Ass'n position on e-mail spam(CNN) With 24 million small businesses in the US alone, that's way too many apples. From lists at mtin.net Fri Oct 2 14:32:02 2015 From: lists at mtin.net (Justin Wilson - MTIN) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 10:32:02 -0400 Subject: /27 the new /24 Message-ID: <80BBB162-5EB8-49F9-AF94-98D8B4C25DCB@mtin.net> I was in a discussion the other day and several Tier2 providers were talking about the idea of adjusting their BGP filters to accept prefixes smaller than a /24. A few were saying they thought about going down to as small as a /27. This was mainly due to more networks coming online and not having even a /24 of IPv4 space. The first argument is against this is the potential bloat the global routing table could have. Many folks have worked hard for years to summarize and such. others were saying they would do a /26 or bigger. However, what do we do about the new networks which want to do BGP but only can get small allocations from someone (either a RIR or one of their upstreams)? Just throwing that out there. Seems like an interesting discussion. Justin Wilson j2sw at mtin.net --- http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO xISP Solutions- Consulting ? Data Centers - Bandwidth http://www.midwest-ix.com COO/Chairman Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric From jj at anexia.at Fri Oct 2 14:45:29 2015 From: jj at anexia.at (=?utf-8?B?SsO8cmdlbiBKYXJpdHNjaA==?=) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 14:45:29 +0000 Subject: AW: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: <80BBB162-5EB8-49F9-AF94-98D8B4C25DCB@mtin.net> References: <80BBB162-5EB8-49F9-AF94-98D8B4C25DCB@mtin.net> Message-ID: <451448fb728a45818f81792a3268e41d@anx-i-dag02.anx.local> Hi, this would at least help to get rid of many old routing engines around the world :) ... or people would keep their "learn nothing smaller than /24" filters in place. Also an option - but not for companies who act as an IP transit provider. best regards J?rgen Jaritsch Head of Network & Infrastructure ANEXIA Internetdienstleistungs GmbH Telefon: +43-5-0556-300 Telefax: +43-5-0556-500 E-Mail: JJaritsch at anexia-it.com Web: http://www.anexia-it.com Anschrift Hauptsitz Klagenfurt: Feldkirchnerstra?e 140, 9020 Klagenfurt Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Alexander Windbichler Firmenbuch: FN 289918a | Gerichtsstand: Klagenfurt | UID-Nummer: AT U63216601 -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces at nanog.org] Im Auftrag von Justin Wilson - MTIN Gesendet: Freitag, 02. Oktober 2015 16:32 An: NANOG Betreff: /27 the new /24 I was in a discussion the other day and several Tier2 providers were talking about the idea of adjusting their BGP filters to accept prefixes smaller than a /24. A few were saying they thought about going down to as small as a /27. This was mainly due to more networks coming online and not having even a /24 of IPv4 space. The first argument is against this is the potential bloat the global routing table could have. Many folks have worked hard for years to summarize and such. others were saying they would do a /26 or bigger. However, what do we do about the new networks which want to do BGP but only can get small allocations from someone (either a RIR or one of their upstreams)? Just throwing that out there. Seems like an interesting discussion. Justin Wilson j2sw at mtin.net --- http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO xISP Solutions- Consulting ? Data Centers - Bandwidth http://www.midwest-ix.com COO/Chairman Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric From matthew at matthew.at Fri Oct 2 14:48:33 2015 From: matthew at matthew.at (Matthew Kaufman) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 07:48:33 -0700 Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: <80BBB162-5EB8-49F9-AF94-98D8B4C25DCB@mtin.net> References: <80BBB162-5EB8-49F9-AF94-98D8B4C25DCB@mtin.net> Message-ID: <9A7AEF1F-36C5-4B9A-BF4D-643B8089A373@matthew.at> A /24 isn't that expensive yet... Matthew Kaufman (Sent from my iPhone) > On Oct 2, 2015, at 7:32 AM, Justin Wilson - MTIN wrote: > > I was in a discussion the other day and several Tier2 providers were talking about the idea of adjusting their BGP filters to accept prefixes smaller than a /24. A few were saying they thought about going down to as small as a /27. This was mainly due to more networks coming online and not having even a /24 of IPv4 space. The first argument is against this is the potential bloat the global routing table could have. Many folks have worked hard for years to summarize and such. others were saying they would do a /26 or bigger. > > However, what do we do about the new networks which want to do BGP but only can get small allocations from someone (either a RIR or one of their upstreams)? > > Just throwing that out there. Seems like an interesting discussion. > > > Justin Wilson > j2sw at mtin.net > > --- > http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO > xISP Solutions- Consulting ? Data Centers - Bandwidth > > http://www.midwest-ix.com COO/Chairman > Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric > From cryptographrix at gmail.com Fri Oct 2 14:48:29 2015 From: cryptographrix at gmail.com (Cryptographrix) Date: Fri, 02 Oct 2015 14:48:29 +0000 Subject: How to force rapid ipv6 adoption In-Reply-To: References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560D9DD0.2030904@Janoszka.pl> <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE@delong.com> <20151001222813.B9469391102B@rock.dv.isc.org> <20151001232613.GD123100@rootmail.cc.le.ac.uk> <20151002000125.9CD573911EF5@rock.dv.isc.org> Message-ID: For ISPs that already exist, what benefit do they get from providing/allowing IPv6 transit to their customers? Keep in mind that the net is now basically another broadcast medium. On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 10:33 AM Steve Mikulasik wrote: > I think more focus needs to be for carriers to deliver dual stack to their > customers door step, whether they demand/use it or not. Small ISPs are > probably in the best position to do this and will help push the big boys > along with time. If we follow the network effect (reason why IPv4 lives and > IPv6 is slowly growing), IPv6 needs more nodes, all other efforts are > meaningless if they do not result in more users having IPv6 delivered to > their door. > > I think people get too lost in the weeds when they start focusing on > device support, home router support, user knowledge, etc. Just get it > working to the people and we can figure out the rest later. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces at nanog.org] On Behalf Of Mark Andrews > Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2015 6:01 PM > To: Matthew Newton > Cc: nanog at nanog.org > Subject: Re: How to force rapid ipv6 adoption > > > In message <20151001232613.GD123100 at rootmail.cc.le.ac.uk>, Matthew Newton > writes: > > Additionally it is now a OLD addressing protocol. We are about to see > young adults that have never lived in a world without IPv6. It may not > have been universally available when they were born but it was available. > There are definitely school leavers that have never lived in a world where > IPv6 did not exist. My daughter will be one of them next year when she > finishes year 12. IPv6 is 7 months older than she is. > > Some of us have been running IPv6 in production for over a decade now and > developing products that support IPv6 even longer. > > We have had 17 years to build up a universal IPv6 network. It should have > been done by now. > > Mark > > > -- > > Matthew Newton, Ph.D. > > > > Systems Specialist, Infrastructure Services, I.T. Services, University > > of Leicester, Leicester LE1 7RH, United Kingdom > > > > For IT help contact helpdesk extn. 2253, > -- > Mark Andrews, ISC > 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia > PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: marka at isc.org > > From list at satchell.net Fri Oct 2 14:52:16 2015 From: list at satchell.net (Stephen Satchell) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 07:52:16 -0700 Subject: How to force rapid ipv6 adoption In-Reply-To: References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560D9DD0.2030904@Janoszka.pl> <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE@delong.com> <20151001222813.B9469391102B@rock.dv.isc.org> <20151001232613.GD123100@rootmail.cc.le.ac.uk> <20151002000125.9CD573911EF5@rock.dv.isc.org> Message-ID: <560E9A20.7090703@satchell.net> On 10/02/2015 07:27 AM, Steve Mikulasik wrote: > I think people get too lost in the weeds when they start focusing on > device support, home router support, user knowledge, etc. Just get it > working to the people and we can figure out the rest later. > The reality is that if customers can get it wrong, they WILL get it wrong. So sluffing off customer support isn't an option -- it WILL bite you in the ass, and the ISP who takes your advice can find themselves in hot water, perhaps even legal hot water. Unless you are willing to let ISPs give out your phone number... :) From streiner at cluebyfour.org Fri Oct 2 14:52:15 2015 From: streiner at cluebyfour.org (Justin M. Streiner) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 10:52:15 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Wrong use of 100.64.0.0/10 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 2 Oct 2015, Marco Paesani wrote: > Hi, > probably this route is wrong, see RFC 6598, as you can see: > > show route 100.64.0.0/10 > > inet.0: 563509 destinations, 1528595 routes (561239 active, 0 holddown, > 3898 hidden) > + = Active Route, - = Last Active, * = Both > > 100.100.1.0/24 *[BGP/170] 2d 14:46:05, MED 100, localpref 100 > AS path: 5580 9498 9730 I, validation-state: > unverified > > to 78.152.54.166 via ge-2/0/0.0 My guess is someone leaking an internal route. It's not uncommon to see people using random IPv4 space for internal purposes. Ranges such as 100.100.x.0/24 or 20.20.x.0/24 are often mis-used in this way. It also looks like at least one of their upsteams is not filtering out any advertisements from 100.64/10. jms From jungleboogie0 at gmail.com Fri Oct 2 14:54:36 2015 From: jungleboogie0 at gmail.com (jungle Boogie) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 07:54:36 -0700 Subject: How to force rapid ipv6 adoption In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 1 October 2015 at 16:12, Peter Beckman wrote: > Then the teacher said "The toothpaste is the Internet. Once it's deployed, > it is nearly impossible to put it back the way it was."* > > Beckman > > * OK, the teacher said "The toothpaste are your words. Once they come out, > you can't put them back in." Or something. My storytelling skills need > work. Sadly, both are true and I wish many times over I could take back some of my words. ;) I suppose the same could be said for electricity, too. The vast majority of us are not willing to go through a summer without our A/C and there's still problems with storms taking out utilities so nothing is perfect. I really hope manufactures of internet of things will make their devices work on ipv6 without much (if any) wild configuring done by the end user. We all use A/C but don't know how the compressor works or the electrical grid is held together. -- ------- inum: 883510009027723 sip: jungleboogie at sip2sip.info xmpp: jungle-boogie at jit.si From lists at silverlakeinternet.com Fri Oct 2 14:56:54 2015 From: lists at silverlakeinternet.com (Brett A Mansfield) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 08:56:54 -0600 Subject: How to force rapid ipv6 adoption In-Reply-To: References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560D9DD0.2030904@Janoszka.pl> <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE@delong.com> <20151001222813.B9469391102B@rock.dv.isc.org> <20151001232613.GD123100@rootmail.cc.le.ac.uk> <20151002000125.9CD573911EF5@rock.dv.isc.org> Message-ID: <639A3CAD-88A3-4CAB-BD36-2C0AC0D34B1B@silverlakeinternet.com> The problem with this is some of us smaller guys don't have the ability to get IPv6 addresses from our upstream providers that don't support it. And even if we did do dual stack, then we're paying for both IPv4 and IPv6 addresses. The cost is just too high. ARIN should give anyone with a current IPv4 address block a free equivalently sized IPv6 block (256 IPv4 = 256 /56s or one /48 IPv6). If they did that, there would be a lot more IPv6 adoption in dual stack. I don't understand why anyone would give an end user a /48. That is over 65,000 individual devices. A /56 is 256 devices which is the standard /24 IPv4. What home user has that many devices??? A /56 to the home should be standard. Based on giving each customer a /56, I could run my entire small ISP off a single /48. I know there are a lot of IP addresses in the IPv6 realm, but why waste them? At the rate were going, everything will have an IP address soon. Maybe one day each item of your clothing will need their own IP address to tell you if it's time to wash or if it needs repair. Stranger things have happened. Thank you, Brett A Mansfield > On Oct 2, 2015, at 8:27 AM, Steve Mikulasik wrote: > > I think more focus needs to be for carriers to deliver dual stack to their customers door step, whether they demand/use it or not. Small ISPs are probably in the best position to do this and will help push the big boys along with time. If we follow the network effect (reason why IPv4 lives and IPv6 is slowly growing), IPv6 needs more nodes, all other efforts are meaningless if they do not result in more users having IPv6 delivered to their door. > > I think people get too lost in the weeds when they start focusing on device support, home router support, user knowledge, etc. Just get it working to the people and we can figure out the rest later. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces at nanog.org] On Behalf Of Mark Andrews > Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2015 6:01 PM > To: Matthew Newton > Cc: nanog at nanog.org > Subject: Re: How to force rapid ipv6 adoption > > > In message <20151001232613.GD123100 at rootmail.cc.le.ac.uk>, Matthew Newton writes: > > Additionally it is now a OLD addressing protocol. We are about to see young adults that have never lived in a world without IPv6. It may not have been universally available when they were born but it was available. There are definitely school leavers that have never lived in a world where IPv6 did not exist. My daughter will be one of them next year when she finishes year 12. IPv6 is 7 months older than she is. > > Some of us have been running IPv6 in production for over a decade now and developing products that support IPv6 even longer. > > We have had 17 years to build up a universal IPv6 network. It should have been done by now. > > Mark > >> -- >> Matthew Newton, Ph.D. >> >> Systems Specialist, Infrastructure Services, I.T. Services, University >> of Leicester, Leicester LE1 7RH, United Kingdom >> >> For IT help contact helpdesk extn. 2253, > -- > Mark Andrews, ISC > 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia > PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: marka at isc.org > From list at satchell.net Fri Oct 2 15:05:03 2015 From: list at satchell.net (Stephen Satchell) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 08:05:03 -0700 Subject: How to wish you hadn't forced ipv6 adoption (was "How to force rapid ipv6 adoption") In-Reply-To: References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560D9DD0.2030904@Janoszka.pl> <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE@delong.com> <20151001222813.B9469391102B@rock.dv.isc.org> <20151001232613.GD123100@rootmail.cc.le.ac.uk> <20151002000125.9CD573911EF5@rock.dv.isc.org> <560DF4BA.5000500@invaluement.com> Message-ID: <560E9D1F.4000608@satchell.net> On 10/01/2015 08:18 PM, cortana5 at gmail.com wrote: > Excuse my probable ignorance of such matters, but would it not then be > preferred to create a whitelist of proven Email servers/ip's , and just > drop the rest? Granted, one would have to create a process to vet anyone > creating a new email server, but would that not be easier then trying to > create and maintain new blacklists? Define "proven e-mail servers and IPs." Just because someone raises their hand and says "I run a mail server" doesn't mean that the hand-raiser doesn't have a ton of people behind him/her who spew spam at a frightening rate. Even when the hand-raiser represents a large company, that's no guarantee of a mail admin with clue or care. I got started in the personal mail-server game when Pacific Telesys lost control of its mail servers, and ended up with the IPv4 addresses blacklisted to hell. In order to be able to contribute to the Linux Kernal mailing list, I ended up setting up my own Postfix box, and doing everything necessary to be identified as following Best Practices regarding mail. Good training for later, it turns out. When I became the mail admin for a Web hosting company, I had to work like hell to (1) clean up the mail, and (2) convincing all the blacklists that I had successfully terminated the spammers. SPEWS, even. A dedicated-server customer was providing DNS service to spammers, which resulted in my company's entire /21 being blacklisted. I went through a private hell re-jiggering the web host mail system (Plesk, CPanel, among other web hosting products) to be able to control both inbound and outbound spam. But I did it. ALso, satisfied AOL, Yahoo, and other mailhost companies to accept my mail. Not to mention providing custom levels of spam control for my customers -- some wanted no spam blocks, others wanted no spam. No middle ground. From marco at paesani.it Fri Oct 2 15:10:49 2015 From: marco at paesani.it (Marco Paesani) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 17:10:49 +0200 Subject: Wrong use of 100.64.0.0/10 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Justin, I know that we must filter this type of route, but AS9498 (upstream) MUST accept only correct networks. Or not ? Ciao, Marco 2015-10-02 16:52 GMT+02:00 Justin M. Streiner : > On Fri, 2 Oct 2015, Marco Paesani wrote: > > Hi, >> probably this route is wrong, see RFC 6598, as you can see: >> >> show route 100.64.0.0/10 >> >> inet.0: 563509 destinations, 1528595 routes (561239 active, 0 holddown, >> 3898 hidden) >> + = Active Route, - = Last Active, * = Both >> >> 100.100.1.0/24 *[BGP/170] 2d 14:46:05, MED 100, localpref 100 >> AS path: 5580 9498 9730 I, validation-state: >> unverified >> > to 78.152.54.166 via ge-2/0/0.0 >> > > My guess is someone leaking an internal route. It's not uncommon to see > people using random IPv4 space for internal purposes. Ranges such as > 100.100.x.0/24 or 20.20.x.0/24 are often mis-used in this way. > > It also looks like at least one of their upsteams is not filtering out any > advertisements from 100.64/10. > > jms > -- Marco Paesani MPAE Srl Skype: mpaesani Mobile: +39 348 6019349 Success depends on the right choice ! Email: marco at paesani.it From streiner at cluebyfour.org Fri Oct 2 15:05:21 2015 From: streiner at cluebyfour.org (Justin M. Streiner) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 11:05:21 -0400 (EDT) Subject: How to wish you hadn't forced ipv6 adoption (was "How to force rapid ipv6 adoption") In-Reply-To: <560E1F7C.6030808@invaluement.com> References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560D9DD0.2030904@Janoszka.pl> <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE@delong.com> <20151001222813.B9469391102B@rock.dv.isc.org> <20151001232613.GD123100@rootmail.cc.le.ac.uk> <20151002000125.9CD573911EF5@rock.dv.isc.org> <560DF4BA.5000500@invaluement.com> <20151002034402.1201F39225D0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560E00D4.7090400@invaluement.com> <20151002041858.984713922C86@rock.dv.isc.org> <560E0C44.5060002@invaluement.com> <20151002051010.911C43923631@rock.dv.isc.org> <560E1F7C.6030808@invaluement.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 2 Oct 2015, Rob McEwen wrote: > it then seems like dividing lines can get really blurred here and this > statement might betray your premise. A site needing more than 1 address... > subtly implies different usage case scenarios... for different parts or > different addresses on that block... which could slip back into... "you > blocked my whole /48... but the spam was only coming from this tiny corner of > the block over here (whether that be a one IP, a /64, or a /56)... and now > other parts of the block that were sending out legit mail, are suffering". > > Likewise, sub-allocations can come into play, where a hoster is delegated a > /48, but then subdivides it for various customers. That touches on the tough part of doing things like ingress/egress filtering and spam blacklisting for IPv6. Net every network assigns IPv6 space to end-users the same way, and even fewer still provide good data on how they assign to end-users (SWIP, rwhois, etc). Networks that are blocking traffic are left to make a decision that straddles the line between providing the necessary level of protection for their services and minimizing the potential of collateral damage by blocking legitimate traffic from other users. Blocking a single IPv6 address is generally not effective because it's trivial for a host to switch to a different address in the same /64, and hosts that have privacy extensions enabled will do so with no further action needed by the owner. This turns into an endless game of whack-a-mole. The same thing can happen with blocking /64s. It's often not clear if provider XYZ is assigning /56, /48, or something else to end-users, especially if the provider doesn't provide any publicly accessible information to that end. jms From list at satchell.net Fri Oct 2 15:13:46 2015 From: list at satchell.net (Stephen Satchell) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 08:13:46 -0700 Subject: How to force rapid ipv6 adoption In-Reply-To: References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560D9DD0.2030904@Janoszka.pl> <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE@delong.com> <20151001222813.B9469391102B@rock.dv.isc.org> <20151001232613.GD123100@rootmail.cc.le.ac.uk> <20151002000125.9CD573911EF5@rock.dv.isc.org> Message-ID: <560E9F2A.1030904@satchell.net> On 10/02/2015 07:48 AM, Cryptographrix wrote: > For ISPs that already exist, what benefit do they get from > providing/allowing IPv6 transit to their customers? > > Keep in mind that the net is now basically another broadcast medium. Interesting you should use that phrase. IPv4 is the "AM band", while IPv6 is the "FM band". (The more I think about it, the better I like this parallel.) As more and more "broadcasters" offer IPv6 connectivity, either "simulcast" or IPv6 only, the more customers will want to use IPv6. I think the "killer app" for IPv6 will be the Internet of Things (IoT). I see the trend for people to have mixed IPv4/IPv6 on their inside network, particularly wireless, but less need to bridge IPv6 to the outside world. Need to get to your IoT stuff from the outside? (Assuming you have a fixed or quasi-fixed IPv4 address, of course.) Then you can use an appliance that will map IPv4 ports to IPv6 inside addresses. So if you really, really want to control your lights from your office, you can. Without the ISP making the investment. The big question is, how many SERVICES will go IPv6 only? I see Google, Netflix, Hulu, and similar broadcast sources being dual stack for a long time to come. That reduces the pressure on ISPs to launch IPv6. From bill at herrin.us Fri Oct 2 15:24:49 2015 From: bill at herrin.us (William Herrin) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 11:24:49 -0400 Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: <80BBB162-5EB8-49F9-AF94-98D8B4C25DCB@mtin.net> References: <80BBB162-5EB8-49F9-AF94-98D8B4C25DCB@mtin.net> Message-ID: On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 10:32 AM, Justin Wilson - MTIN wrote: > However, what do we do about the new networks which > want to do BGP but only can get small allocations from > someone (either a RIR or one of their upstreams)? Hi Justin, Rent or sell them a /24 and make money. If they can't afford a /24 at today's market rate, why should the rest of us spend much more money upgrading routers to accommodate their advertisement? The annual systemic cost of carrying that prefix is still more than double the one-time cost of acquiring a /24. No doubt that gap will close, but there's no cost justification to change the /24 filters just yet. Regards, Bill Herrin -- William Herrin ................ herrin at dirtside.com bill at herrin.us Owner, Dirtside Systems ......... Web: From nanog at ics-il.net Fri Oct 2 15:32:03 2015 From: nanog at ics-il.net (Mike Hammett) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 10:32:03 -0500 (CDT) Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: <9A7AEF1F-36C5-4B9A-BF4D-643B8089A373@matthew.at> Message-ID: <1636636404.1965.1443799986676.JavaMail.mhammett@ThunderFuck> Much m ore than I'm willing to spend. ;-) ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matthew Kaufman" To: "Justin Wilson - MTIN" Cc: "NANOG" Sent: Friday, October 2, 2015 9:48:33 AM Subject: Re: /27 the new /24 A /24 isn't that expensive yet... Matthew Kaufman (Sent from my iPhone) > On Oct 2, 2015, at 7:32 AM, Justin Wilson - MTIN wrote: > > I was in a discussion the other day and several Tier2 providers were talking about the idea of adjusting their BGP filters to accept prefixes smaller than a /24. A few were saying they thought about going down to as small as a /27. This was mainly due to more networks coming online and not having even a /24 of IPv4 space. The first argument is against this is the potential bloat the global routing table could have. Many folks have worked hard for years to summarize and such. others were saying they would do a /26 or bigger. > > However, what do we do about the new networks which want to do BGP but only can get small allocations from someone (either a RIR or one of their upstreams)? > > Just throwing that out there. Seems like an interesting discussion. > > > Justin Wilson > j2sw at mtin.net > > --- > http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO > xISP Solutions- Consulting ? Data Centers - Bandwidth > > http://www.midwest-ix.com COO/Chairman > Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric > From cryptographrix at gmail.com Fri Oct 2 15:40:04 2015 From: cryptographrix at gmail.com (Cryptographrix) Date: Fri, 02 Oct 2015 15:40:04 +0000 Subject: How to force rapid ipv6 adoption In-Reply-To: <560E9F2A.1030904@satchell.net> References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560D9DD0.2030904@Janoszka.pl> <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE@delong.com> <20151001222813.B9469391102B@rock.dv.isc.org> <20151001232613.GD123100@rootmail.cc.le.ac.uk> <20151002000125.9CD573911EF5@rock.dv.isc.org> <560E9F2A.1030904@satchell.net> Message-ID: Why would they go "IPv6 only" if it costs them huge customer bases? *** anecdote below *** I hosted a discussion about IPv6 the other day to a room full of highly technically-proficient millennials (being maybe in the older portion of "millennial", myself - In spite of how I must sound, I'm actually really excited about IPv6 for some of the reasons below). About 1/3 of the way into the discussion - a discussion I was *specifically avoiding* the "2^32 versus 2^128" reason for switching to IPv6 (due to various reasons starting with the secondary IPv4 markets and continuing with today's "/27 is the new /24" thread) - I realized that most of the people in the room had not lived in the era where ports below 1024 were open to the world. Literally they'd almost all grown up in the stateful NAT-as-a-security-model era. The internet has not been much different from TV or radio for them, and it occurred to me that this could be a huge brick on IPv6 adoption in places where ISPs are happy to NAT away as much as possible (getting back to the question of "what benefit do they get from providing/allowing IPv6 transit to their customers?" from my prior post). I don't know if this is actually the case, but it sure seems that way. Re: IoT - Additionally, I am pretty up to date on IoT development (Ubiquiti, Edison, TI meetups in the city, etc). The products in development all have the *capability* to use IPv6 with some hacking, but because of the callback cloud services that much of them employ combined with most places not having IPv6, they all develop their products for use with, and train developers on their platforms, expecting IPv4 (at least the ones I've been to). On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 11:26 AM Stephen Satchell wrote: > On 10/02/2015 07:48 AM, Cryptographrix wrote: > > For ISPs that already exist, what benefit do they get from > > providing/allowing IPv6 transit to their customers? > > > > Keep in mind that the net is now basically another broadcast medium. > > Interesting you should use that phrase. IPv4 is the "AM band", while > IPv6 is the "FM band". (The more I think about it, the better I like > this parallel.) As more and more "broadcasters" offer IPv6 > connectivity, either "simulcast" or IPv6 only, the more customers will > want to use IPv6. > > I think the "killer app" for IPv6 will be the Internet of Things (IoT). > I see the trend for people to have mixed IPv4/IPv6 on their inside > network, particularly wireless, but less need to bridge IPv6 to the > outside world. > > Need to get to your IoT stuff from the outside? (Assuming you have a > fixed or quasi-fixed IPv4 address, of course.) Then you can use an > appliance that will map IPv4 ports to IPv6 inside addresses. So if you > really, really want to control your lights from your office, you can. > Without the ISP making the investment. > > The big question is, how many SERVICES will go IPv6 only? I see Google, > Netflix, Hulu, and similar broadcast sources being dual stack for a long > time to come. That reduces the pressure on ISPs to launch IPv6. > > From jwbensley at gmail.com Fri Oct 2 15:44:32 2015 From: jwbensley at gmail.com (James Bensley) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 16:44:32 +0100 Subject: Wrong use of 100.64.0.0/10 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 2 October 2015 at 16:10, Marco Paesani wrote: > Hi Justin, > I know that we must filter this type of route, but AS9498 (upstream) MUST > accept only correct networks. > Or not ? > Ciao, > Marco You are correct. AS-9730 shoudn't be advertising this range. AS-9498 shouldn't be accepting this range, and they shouldn't be advertising it on. AS-5580 shouldn't be accepting this range, and they shouldn't be advertising it on. In fact if we look at LINX as an example, many ASNs are accepting this route and advertising it on again. Possibly becasue they use the same filter list for inbound and outbound advertisements so an inbound mistake just gets echo'ed out to everyone else :( route-views.linx.routeviews.org> show ip bgp 100.64.0.0/10 longer-prefixes BGP table version is 0, local router ID is 195.66.225.222 Status codes: s suppressed, d damped, h history, * valid, > best, i - internal, r RIB-failure, S Stale, R Removed Origin codes: i - IGP, e - EGP, ? - incomplete Network Next Hop Metric LocPrf Weight Path * 100.100.1.0/24 195.66.224.83 0 5511 9498 9730 ? *> 195.66.225.86 0 34288 9498 9730 i * 195.66.224.51 0 6453 5511 9498 9730 i * 195.66.224.53 10 0 8928 5511 9498 9730 ? * 195.66.236.35 0 6067 6453 5511 9498 9730 i * 195.66.225.109 0 41811 9498 9730 ? * 195.66.224.153 100 0 6762 5511 9498 9730 ? * 195.66.224.118 0 14537 9498 9730 ? * 195.66.224.39 0 3561 5511 9498 9730 ? * 195.66.224.233 0 0 19151 9498 9730 ? * 195.66.224.175 1 0 13030 9498 9730 ? * 195.66.236.175 1 0 13030 9498 9730 ? Cheers, James. From damian at google.com Fri Oct 2 15:45:23 2015 From: damian at google.com (Damian Menscher) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 08:45:23 -0700 Subject: How to force rapid ipv6 adoption In-Reply-To: <20151002035400.GE21567@bamboo.slabnet.com> References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560D9DD0.2030904@Janoszka.pl> <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE@delong.com> <20151001222813.B9469391102B@rock.dv.isc.org> <20151001232613.GD123100@rootmail.cc.le.ac.uk> <20151002035400.GE21567@bamboo.slabnet.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 8:54 PM, Hugo Slabbert wrote: > On Thu 2015-Oct-01 18:28:52 -0700, Damian Menscher via NANOG < > nanog at nanog.org> wrote: > >> On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 4:26 PM, Matthew Newton >> wrote: >> >> On Thu, Oct 01, 2015 at 10:42:57PM +0000, Todd Underwood wrote: >>> > it's just a new addressing protocol that happens to not work with the >>> rest >>> > of the internet. it's unfortunate that we made that mistake, but i >>> guess >>> > we're stuck with that now (i wish i could say something about lessons >>> > learned but i don't think any one of us has learned a lesson yet). >>> >>> Would be really interesting to know how you would propose >>> squeezing 128 bits of address data into a 32 bit field so that we >>> could all continue to use IPv4 with more addresses than it's has >>> available to save having to move to this new incompatible format. >>> >> >> I solved that problem a few years ago (well, kinda -- only for backend >> logging, not for routing): >> >> http://docs.guava-libraries.googlecode.com/git/javadoc/com/google/common/net/InetAddresses.html#getCoercedIPv4Address(java.net.InetAddress) >> > > Squeezing 32 bits into 128 bits is easy. Let me know how you do with > squeezing 128 bits into 32 bits... > I did just fine, thanks. (You may want to read the link again.... ;) Damian From matthew at matthew.at Fri Oct 2 15:48:29 2015 From: matthew at matthew.at (Matthew Kaufman) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 08:48:29 -0700 Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: <1636636404.1965.1443799986676.JavaMail.mhammett@ThunderFuck> References: <1636636404.1965.1443799986676.JavaMail.mhammett@ThunderFuck> Message-ID: <3E65E40D-FCF2-4B16-88A4-D78D04CC79AD@matthew.at> Cheaper than buying everyone TCAM Matthew Kaufman (Sent from my iPhone) > On Oct 2, 2015, at 8:32 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: > > Much m ore than I'm willing to spend. ;-) > > > > > ----- > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions > http://www.ics-il.com > > > > Midwest Internet Exchange > http://www.midwest-ix.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Matthew Kaufman" > To: "Justin Wilson - MTIN" > Cc: "NANOG" > Sent: Friday, October 2, 2015 9:48:33 AM > Subject: Re: /27 the new /24 > > A /24 isn't that expensive yet... > > Matthew Kaufman > > (Sent from my iPhone) > >> On Oct 2, 2015, at 7:32 AM, Justin Wilson - MTIN wrote: >> >> I was in a discussion the other day and several Tier2 providers were talking about the idea of adjusting their BGP filters to accept prefixes smaller than a /24. A few were saying they thought about going down to as small as a /27. This was mainly due to more networks coming online and not having even a /24 of IPv4 space. The first argument is against this is the potential bloat the global routing table could have. Many folks have worked hard for years to summarize and such. others were saying they would do a /26 or bigger. >> >> However, what do we do about the new networks which want to do BGP but only can get small allocations from someone (either a RIR or one of their upstreams)? >> >> Just throwing that out there. Seems like an interesting discussion. >> >> >> Justin Wilson >> j2sw at mtin.net >> >> --- >> http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO >> xISP Solutions- Consulting ? Data Centers - Bandwidth >> >> http://www.midwest-ix.com COO/Chairman >> Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric > From nanog at ics-il.net Fri Oct 2 15:50:54 2015 From: nanog at ics-il.net (Mike Hammett) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 10:50:54 -0500 (CDT) Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: <3E65E40D-FCF2-4B16-88A4-D78D04CC79AD@matthew.at> Message-ID: <1639177133.2050.1443801117995.JavaMail.mhammett@ThunderFuck> How many routers out there have this limitation? A $100 router I bought ten years ago could manage many full tables. If someone's network can't match that today, should I really have any pity for them? ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matthew Kaufman" To: "Mike Hammett" Cc: "NANOG" Sent: Friday, October 2, 2015 10:48:29 AM Subject: Re: /27 the new /24 Cheaper than buying everyone TCAM Matthew Kaufman (Sent from my iPhone) > On Oct 2, 2015, at 8:32 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: > > Much m ore than I'm willing to spend. ;-) > > > > > ----- > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions > http://www.ics-il.com > > > > Midwest Internet Exchange > http://www.midwest-ix.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Matthew Kaufman" > To: "Justin Wilson - MTIN" > Cc: "NANOG" > Sent: Friday, October 2, 2015 9:48:33 AM > Subject: Re: /27 the new /24 > > A /24 isn't that expensive yet... > > Matthew Kaufman > > (Sent from my iPhone) > >> On Oct 2, 2015, at 7:32 AM, Justin Wilson - MTIN wrote: >> >> I was in a discussion the other day and several Tier2 providers were talking about the idea of adjusting their BGP filters to accept prefixes smaller than a /24. A few were saying they thought about going down to as small as a /27. This was mainly due to more networks coming online and not having even a /24 of IPv4 space. The first argument is against this is the potential bloat the global routing table could have. Many folks have worked hard for years to summarize and such. others were saying they would do a /26 or bigger. >> >> However, what do we do about the new networks which want to do BGP but only can get small allocations from someone (either a RIR or one of their upstreams)? >> >> Just throwing that out there. Seems like an interesting discussion. >> >> >> Justin Wilson >> j2sw at mtin.net >> >> --- >> http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO >> xISP Solutions- Consulting ? Data Centers - Bandwidth >> >> http://www.midwest-ix.com COO/Chairman >> Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric > From ops.lists at gmail.com Fri Oct 2 15:55:17 2015 From: ops.lists at gmail.com (Suresh Ramasubramanian) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 21:25:17 +0530 Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: References: <80BBB162-5EB8-49F9-AF94-98D8B4C25DCB@mtin.net> Message-ID: <8DFD80FA-955E-454B-929E-7500140F9DA7@gmail.com> Besides which more than one provider filters by a minimum prefix length per /8 - wasn't Swisscom or someone similar doing that? So multi homing with even a /24 is somewhat patchy in terms of effectiveness --srs > On 02-Oct-2015, at 8:54 PM, William Herrin wrote: > >> On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 10:32 AM, Justin Wilson - MTIN wrote: >> However, what do we do about the new networks which >> want to do BGP but only can get small allocations from >> someone (either a RIR or one of their upstreams)? > > Hi Justin, > > Rent or sell them a /24 and make money. If they can't afford a /24 at > today's market rate, why should the rest of us spend much more money > upgrading routers to accommodate their advertisement? > > The annual systemic cost of carrying that prefix is still more than > double the one-time cost of acquiring a /24. No doubt that gap will > close, but there's no cost justification to change the /24 filters > just yet. > > Regards, > Bill Herrin > > > > -- > William Herrin ................ herrin at dirtside.com bill at herrin.us > Owner, Dirtside Systems ......... Web: From rdobbins at arbor.net Fri Oct 2 16:01:10 2015 From: rdobbins at arbor.net (Roland Dobbins) Date: Fri, 02 Oct 2015 11:01:10 -0500 Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: <1639177133.2050.1443801117995.JavaMail.mhammett@ThunderFuck> References: <1639177133.2050.1443801117995.JavaMail.mhammett@ThunderFuck> Message-ID: On 2 Oct 2015, at 10:50, Mike Hammett wrote: > If someone's network can't match that today, should I really have any > pity for them? In my view, no. Hardware-based routers with sufficient RIB/FIB/TCAM are table-stakes for edge connectivity. But it's easy for me to spend other people's money. ;> ----------------------------------- Roland Dobbins From wesley.george at twcable.com Fri Oct 2 16:01:54 2015 From: wesley.george at twcable.com (George, Wes) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 16:01:54 +0000 Subject: How to force rapid ipv6 adoption In-Reply-To: References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560D9DD0.2030904@Janoszka.pl> <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE@delong.com> <20151001222813.B9469391102B@rock.dv.isc.org> <20151001232613.GD123100@rootmail.cc.le.ac.uk> <20151002000125.9CD573911EF5@rock.dv.isc.org> Message-ID: On 10/2/15, 10:48 AM, "NANOG on behalf of Cryptographrix" wrote: >For ISPs that already exist, what benefit do they get from >providing/allowing IPv6 transit to their customers? If they'd like to continue growing at something above churn rate, they need additional IP addresses to give their new customers. Buying those addresses, undertaking projects to free up addresses from other internal uses, or using CGN to share existing ones all have nontrivial costs. The fewer things they need to make work on legacy IPv4, the lower those costs can be (less CGN capacity since IPv6 traffic bypasses the NAT, less support costs because less stuff breaks by going through the NAT, etc).[1,2,3] But that's dependent on content and CPE supporting it, so a number of large ISPs have chosen to go ahead and deploy[4], and focus on pushing the progress on the other fronts so that they can see that benefit of deploying. Wes George [1] https://www.nanog.org/meetings/abstract?id=2025 [2] https://www.nanog.org/meetings/abstract?id=2075 [3] http://nanog.org/meetings/abstract?id=2130 [4] http://www.worldipv6launch.org/measurements/ Anything below this line has been added by my company?s mail server, I have no control over it. ----------- ________________________________ This E-mail and any of its attachments may contain Time Warner Cable proprietary information, which is privileged, confidential, or subject to copyright belonging to Time Warner Cable. This E-mail is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient of this E-mail, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying, or action taken in relation to the contents of and attachments to this E-mail is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this E-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and permanently delete the original and any copy of this E-mail and any printout. From jj at anexia.at Fri Oct 2 16:05:51 2015 From: jj at anexia.at (=?utf-8?B?SsO8cmdlbiBKYXJpdHNjaA==?=) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 16:05:51 +0000 Subject: AW: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: <1639177133.2050.1443801117995.JavaMail.mhammett@ThunderFuck> References: <3E65E40D-FCF2-4B16-88A4-D78D04CC79AD@matthew.at> <1639177133.2050.1443801117995.JavaMail.mhammett@ThunderFuck> Message-ID: <7c4d8c4f5e6b4a7bb3617d8c1f5bee89@anx-i-dag02.anx.local> Welcome to the real world ... Cisco SUP720-3BXL Cisco RSP720-3BXL and even the new and shiny SUP2T only supports 1 Mio routes (dicvided to IPv4 MPLS, IPv4 VRF, IPv4 global routes, etc). I guess this is still the truth: there are at least a few ten thousand of these devices running big parts of the internet. Take a look at some big players network - e.g. Level3. Their customer access routers in Slovakia, Austria and Germany are still based on the Cisco 6500/7600 platform. Of course there are many other vendors and platforms available which do NOT have this limitations. But there are also at least a ton of vendors on the market with exactly the same limitation :(. best regards J?rgen Jaritsch Head of Network & Infrastructure ANEXIA Internetdienstleistungs GmbH Telefon: +43-5-0556-300 Telefax: +43-5-0556-500 E-Mail: JJaritsch at anexia-it.com Web: http://www.anexia-it.com Anschrift Hauptsitz Klagenfurt: Feldkirchnerstra?e 140, 9020 Klagenfurt Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Alexander Windbichler Firmenbuch: FN 289918a | Gerichtsstand: Klagenfurt | UID-Nummer: AT U63216601 -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces at nanog.org] Im Auftrag von Mike Hammett Gesendet: Freitag, 02. Oktober 2015 17:51 Cc: NANOG Betreff: Re: /27 the new /24 How many routers out there have this limitation? A $100 router I bought ten years ago could manage many full tables. If someone's network can't match that today, should I really have any pity for them? ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matthew Kaufman" To: "Mike Hammett" Cc: "NANOG" Sent: Friday, October 2, 2015 10:48:29 AM Subject: Re: /27 the new /24 Cheaper than buying everyone TCAM Matthew Kaufman (Sent from my iPhone) > On Oct 2, 2015, at 8:32 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: > > Much m ore than I'm willing to spend. ;-) > > > > > ----- > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions > http://www.ics-il.com > > > > Midwest Internet Exchange > http://www.midwest-ix.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Matthew Kaufman" > To: "Justin Wilson - MTIN" > Cc: "NANOG" > Sent: Friday, October 2, 2015 9:48:33 AM > Subject: Re: /27 the new /24 > > A /24 isn't that expensive yet... > > Matthew Kaufman > > (Sent from my iPhone) > >> On Oct 2, 2015, at 7:32 AM, Justin Wilson - MTIN wrote: >> >> I was in a discussion the other day and several Tier2 providers were talking about the idea of adjusting their BGP filters to accept prefixes smaller than a /24. A few were saying they thought about going down to as small as a /27. This was mainly due to more networks coming online and not having even a /24 of IPv4 space. The first argument is against this is the potential bloat the global routing table could have. Many folks have worked hard for years to summarize and such. others were saying they would do a /26 or bigger. >> >> However, what do we do about the new networks which want to do BGP but only can get small allocations from someone (either a RIR or one of their upstreams)? >> >> Just throwing that out there. Seems like an interesting discussion. >> >> >> Justin Wilson >> j2sw at mtin.net >> >> --- >> http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO >> xISP Solutions- Consulting ? Data Centers - Bandwidth >> >> http://www.midwest-ix.com COO/Chairman >> Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric > From rsk at gsp.org Fri Oct 2 16:13:52 2015 From: rsk at gsp.org (Rich Kulawiec) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 12:13:52 -0400 Subject: Quick Update on the North American BCOP Efforts In-Reply-To: <36CAC6F9-E295-46C0-AB92-540816C2F4AA@arbor.net> References: <6160113.592.1443669923679.JavaMail.root@benjamin.baylink.com> <36CAC6F9-E295-46C0-AB92-540816C2F4AA@arbor.net> Message-ID: <20151002161352.GA29138@gsp.org> On Thu, Oct 01, 2015 at 09:58:49AM -0500, Roland Dobbins wrote: > So, educating folks to the point that they understand that the > problem space exists is The Problem, writ large. I strongly concur with this. While there are some amazing experts out there who provide exemplary models of how to run an X, for many values of X, they're becoming increasingly rare as large entities engage in a race to the bottom. We now accept as "routine" problems (including massive, systemic, persistent problems) that would have never been tolerated by the community years ago, and in part we accept this because lots of folks don't know that they shouldn't. Today's example: http://www.spamhaus.org/sbl/listings/amazon.com At least they're not in the Top 10 worst spam-sourcing networks like they were just a few weeks ago, but how can anyone at Amazon sleep at night while this situation exists? Do they not grasp how unprofessional and unethical it is to allow this situation to persist? The same can be said of many other operational issues, and I don't mean the normal level of oops-that-was-wrong mistakes that we're all prone to; we'll never get rid of all of those. I mean the things that are way wrong and stay wrong because folks are doing their best to put their fingers in their ears and avoid hearing about them. (I'm looking at you, Google.) So yes, BCOP efforts are laudable and good and every other positive thing; but unless we (for a large value of "we") start imposing consequences for bad/wrong/stupid behavior, they will be ignored. Their existence won't even be noted. Their relevance won't be grasped. Bill Cole nailed it when he wrote: Current Peeve: The mindset that the Internet is some sort of school for novice sysadmins and that everyone *not* doing stupid dangerous things should act like patient teachers with the ones who are. ---rsk From streiner at cluebyfour.org Fri Oct 2 16:19:52 2015 From: streiner at cluebyfour.org (Justin M. Streiner) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 12:19:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Wrong use of 100.64.0.0/10 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 2 Oct 2015, Marco Paesani wrote: > I know that we must filter this type of route, but AS9498 (upstream) MUST > accept only correct networks. > Or not ? They should filter out routes that are not supposed to be globally routable, but many providers don't do this, unfortunately. jms > 2015-10-02 16:52 GMT+02:00 Justin M. Streiner : > >> On Fri, 2 Oct 2015, Marco Paesani wrote: >> >> Hi, >>> probably this route is wrong, see RFC 6598, as you can see: >>> >>> show route 100.64.0.0/10 >>> >>> inet.0: 563509 destinations, 1528595 routes (561239 active, 0 holddown, >>> 3898 hidden) >>> + = Active Route, - = Last Active, * = Both >>> >>> 100.100.1.0/24 *[BGP/170] 2d 14:46:05, MED 100, localpref 100 >>> AS path: 5580 9498 9730 I, validation-state: >>> unverified >>> > to 78.152.54.166 via ge-2/0/0.0 >>> >> >> My guess is someone leaking an internal route. It's not uncommon to see >> people using random IPv4 space for internal purposes. Ranges such as >> 100.100.x.0/24 or 20.20.x.0/24 are often mis-used in this way. >> >> It also looks like at least one of their upsteams is not filtering out any >> advertisements from 100.64/10. >> >> jms >> > > > > -- > > Marco Paesani > MPAE Srl > > Skype: mpaesani > Mobile: +39 348 6019349 > Success depends on the right choice ! > Email: marco at paesani.it > From tom at ninjabadger.net Fri Oct 2 16:33:50 2015 From: tom at ninjabadger.net (Tom Hill) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 17:33:50 +0100 Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: <80BBB162-5EB8-49F9-AF94-98D8B4C25DCB@mtin.net> References: <80BBB162-5EB8-49F9-AF94-98D8B4C25DCB@mtin.net> Message-ID: <560EB1EE.9080900@ninjabadger.net> On 02/10/15 15:32, Justin Wilson - MTIN wrote: > I was in a discussion the other day and several Tier2 providers were > talking about the idea of adjusting their BGP filters to accept > prefixes smaller than a /24. A few were saying they thought about > going down to as small as a /27. This was mainly due to more > networks coming online and not having even a /24 of IPv4 space. The > first argument is against this is the potential bloat the global > routing table could have. Many folks have worked hard for years to > summarize and such. others were saying they would do a /26 or bigger. > > However, what do we do about the new networks which want to do BGP > but only can get small allocations from someone (either a RIR or one > of their upstreams)? Any RIR - or LIR - that considers allocating space in sizes smaller than a /24 (for the purpose of announcing to the DFZ) would do well to read this report from RIPE Labs: https://labs.ripe.net/Members/emileaben/has-the-routability-of-longer-than-24-prefixes-changed tl;dr: it's still a bad idea to allocate smaller than a /24. On top of this, I've recently seen some figures that put a 'regular' BGP table mix, at over half of the prefixes received (from numerous upstreams) as being /24s. I really don't want to see everyone already de-aggregating their /18s to /24s, to then go and de-aggregate down to /27s instead. Whilst getting routers with *big RIBS* for little monies, is easy (i.e. Linux box + Quagga). Getting routers that have all the features SPs need, with the throughput requirements too, /and/ have plenty of *FIB* space - that's expensive. Super expensive. -- Tom From bill at herrin.us Fri Oct 2 16:34:27 2015 From: bill at herrin.us (William Herrin) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 12:34:27 -0400 Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: <8DFD80FA-955E-454B-929E-7500140F9DA7@gmail.com> References: <80BBB162-5EB8-49F9-AF94-98D8B4C25DCB@mtin.net> <8DFD80FA-955E-454B-929E-7500140F9DA7@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 11:55 AM, Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote: > Besides which more than one provider filters by a minimum prefix length > per /8 - wasn't Swisscom or someone similar doing that? So multi > homing with even a /24 is somewhat patchy in terms of effectiveness Hi Suresh, That hasn't been true for something like a decade. Anybody who filters anything shorter than /24 without also taking a default route (or the equivalent) is not fully connected to the Internet. Regards, Bill Herrin -- William Herrin ................ herrin at dirtside.com bill at herrin.us Owner, Dirtside Systems ......... Web: From cryptographrix at gmail.com Fri Oct 2 16:35:03 2015 From: cryptographrix at gmail.com (Cryptographrix) Date: Fri, 02 Oct 2015 16:35:03 +0000 Subject: How to force rapid ipv6 adoption In-Reply-To: References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560D9DD0.2030904@Janoszka.pl> <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE@delong.com> <20151001222813.B9469391102B@rock.dv.isc.org> <20151001232613.GD123100@rootmail.cc.le.ac.uk> <20151002000125.9CD573911EF5@rock.dv.isc.org> Message-ID: Unfortunately, the files at the NANOG links you posted are not available, but I think I get the premise of them from their summaries and what you're trying to say - thank you for linking. The discussion about CGN maintenance versus IPv6 adoption is important at the NANOG level because of exactly what (I think) you're trying to say, and the only contribution I have to that is that "we need more IPv6-capable NetOps and vendors" - I suspect we all know this. It makes me curious about the churn rate between ISPs, but that's a different topic and everything you've said is spot on. What seems really important/would be progressive at the moment is that vendors release IPv6-capable "plug and play" gear. Is there any vendor that's currently working on a home router that provides *only* IPv6 internally, with NAT64 IPv6->IPv4? If we wanted to really get this started, that (and a bunch of articles about "use this router to get IPv6 in your house") sounds like it could be really productive. Additionally, is it possible for ISPs to offer IPv6 transit-exclusive plans for people that would like to get just that? Maybe with the ability to have all ports open from the get-go as an incentive? On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 12:02 PM George, Wes wrote: > > On 10/2/15, 10:48 AM, "NANOG on behalf of Cryptographrix" > wrote: > > >For ISPs that already exist, what benefit do they get from > >providing/allowing IPv6 transit to their customers? > > If they'd like to continue growing at something above churn rate, they > need additional IP addresses to give their new customers. > Buying those addresses, undertaking projects to free up addresses from > other internal uses, or using CGN to share existing ones all have > nontrivial costs. The fewer things they need to make work on legacy IPv4, > the lower those costs can be (less CGN capacity since IPv6 traffic > bypasses the NAT, less support costs because less stuff breaks by going > through the NAT, etc).[1,2,3] But that's dependent on content and CPE > supporting it, so a number of large ISPs have chosen to go ahead and > deploy[4], and focus on pushing the progress on the other fronts so that > they can see that benefit of deploying. > > Wes George > > > [1] https://www.nanog.org/meetings/abstract?id=2025 > > [2] https://www.nanog.org/meetings/abstract?id=2075 > > [3] http://nanog.org/meetings/abstract?id=2130 > > [4] http://www.worldipv6launch.org/measurements/ > > > Anything below this line has been added by my company?s mail server, I > have no control over it. > ----------- > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > This E-mail and any of its attachments may contain Time Warner Cable > proprietary information, which is privileged, confidential, or subject to > copyright belonging to Time Warner Cable. This E-mail is intended solely > for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you > are not the intended recipient of this E-mail, you are hereby notified that > any dissemination, distribution, copying, or action taken in relation to > the contents of and attachments to this E-mail is strictly prohibited and > may be unlawful. If you have received this E-mail in error, please notify > the sender immediately and permanently delete the original and any copy of > this E-mail and any printout. > From niels=nanog at bakker.net Fri Oct 2 16:42:03 2015 From: niels=nanog at bakker.net (Niels Bakker) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 18:42:03 +0200 Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: <560EB1EE.9080900@ninjabadger.net> References: <80BBB162-5EB8-49F9-AF94-98D8B4C25DCB@mtin.net> <560EB1EE.9080900@ninjabadger.net> Message-ID: <20151002164203.GC3097@excession.tpb.net> * tom at ninjabadger.net (Tom Hill) [Fri 02 Oct 2015, 18:34 CEST]: >Any RIR - or LIR - that considers allocating space in sizes smaller >than a /24 (for the purpose of announcing to the DFZ) would do well >to read this report from RIPE Labs: > > https://labs.ripe.net/Members/emileaben/has-the-routability-of-longer-than-24-prefixes-changed > >tl;dr: it's still a bad idea to allocate smaller than a /24. RIPE has long allocated up to /29. Not everybody needs addresses for the Internet; some just need a guarantee of global uniqueness. -- Niels. From hugo at slabnet.com Fri Oct 2 16:43:40 2015 From: hugo at slabnet.com (Hugo Slabbert) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 09:43:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: How to force rapid ipv6 adoption In-Reply-To: References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560D9DD0.2030904@Janoszka.pl> <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE@delong.com> <20151001222813.B9469391102B@rock.dv.isc.org> <20151001232613.GD123100@rootmail.cc.le.ac.uk> <20151002035400.GE21567@bamboo.slabnet.com> Message-ID: <1cffd0.kqhkiG.15029700be0@slabnet.com> My apologies; missed the anchor for some reason and just got the top bits of the doc. -- Hugo hugo at slabnet.com: email, xmpp/jabber also on TextSecure & RedPhone ---- From: Damian Menscher -- Sent: 2015-10-02 - 08:45 ---- > On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 8:54 PM, Hugo Slabbert wrote: > >> On Thu 2015-Oct-01 18:28:52 -0700, Damian Menscher via NANOG < >> nanog at nanog.org> wrote: >> >>> On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 4:26 PM, Matthew Newton >>> wrote: >>> >>> On Thu, Oct 01, 2015 at 10:42:57PM +0000, Todd Underwood wrote: >>>> > it's just a new addressing protocol that happens to not work with the >>>> rest >>>> > of the internet. it's unfortunate that we made that mistake, but i >>>> guess >>>> > we're stuck with that now (i wish i could say something about lessons >>>> > learned but i don't think any one of us has learned a lesson yet). >>>> >>>> Would be really interesting to know how you would propose >>>> squeezing 128 bits of address data into a 32 bit field so that we >>>> could all continue to use IPv4 with more addresses than it's has >>>> available to save having to move to this new incompatible format. >>>> >>> >>> I solved that problem a few years ago (well, kinda -- only for backend >>> logging, not for routing): >>> >>> http://docs.guava-libraries.googlecode.com/git/javadoc/com/google/common/net/InetAddresses.html#getCoercedIPv4Address(java.net.InetAddress) >>> >> >> Squeezing 32 bits into 128 bits is easy. Let me know how you do with >> squeezing 128 bits into 32 bits... >> > > I did just fine, thanks. (You may want to read the link again.... ;) > > Damian -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 870 bytes Desc: PGP/MIME digital signature URL: From jason at thebaughers.com Fri Oct 2 16:47:31 2015 From: jason at thebaughers.com (Jason Baugher) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 11:47:31 -0500 Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: References: <80BBB162-5EB8-49F9-AF94-98D8B4C25DCB@mtin.net> <8DFD80FA-955E-454B-929E-7500140F9DA7@gmail.com> Message-ID: Are you suggesting that the Tier 1 and 2's that I connect to are not filtering out anything shorter than /24? My expectation is that they are dropping shorter than /24, just like I am. Correct me if I'm wrong, but every *NOG BGP best practices document I've read has advocated dropping all prefixes shorter than /24 at ingress and egress. On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 11:34 AM, William Herrin wrote: > On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 11:55 AM, Suresh Ramasubramanian > wrote: > > Besides which more than one provider filters by a minimum prefix length > > per /8 - wasn't Swisscom or someone similar doing that? So multi > > homing with even a /24 is somewhat patchy in terms of effectiveness > > Hi Suresh, > > That hasn't been true for something like a decade. Anybody who filters > anything shorter than /24 without also taking a default route (or the > equivalent) is not fully connected to the Internet. > > Regards, > Bill Herrin > > > > -- > William Herrin ................ herrin at dirtside.com bill at herrin.us > Owner, Dirtside Systems ......... Web: > From bill at herrin.us Fri Oct 2 17:06:22 2015 From: bill at herrin.us (William Herrin) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 13:06:22 -0400 Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: References: <80BBB162-5EB8-49F9-AF94-98D8B4C25DCB@mtin.net> <8DFD80FA-955E-454B-929E-7500140F9DA7@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Oct 2, 2015 12:47 PM, "Jason Baugher" wrote: > > Are you suggesting that the Tier 1 and 2's that I connect to are not filtering out anything shorter than /24? My expectation is that they are dropping shorter than /24, just like I am. You mean longer. A /16 is shorter than /24. A /28 is longer. More 1 bits in a row. -Bill From ops.lists at gmail.com Fri Oct 2 16:57:53 2015 From: ops.lists at gmail.com (Suresh Ramasubramanian) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 22:27:53 +0530 Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: References: <80BBB162-5EB8-49F9-AF94-98D8B4C25DCB@mtin.net> <8DFD80FA-955E-454B-929E-7500140F9DA7@gmail.com> Message-ID: <7A9F84CE-0109-4A39-A89D-D65B7E707ED9@gmail.com> There would be a default route sure - but the filter simply means that if your packets from say a src IP in a level 3 /24 (where the minimum alloc size was what, /20) wouldn't go through if you sent them though say a cogent interface --srs > On 02-Oct-2015, at 10:04 PM, William Herrin wrote: > > On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 11:55 AM, Suresh Ramasubramanian > wrote: >> Besides which more than one provider filters by a minimum prefix length >> per /8 - wasn't Swisscom or someone similar doing that? So multi >> homing with even a /24 is somewhat patchy in terms of effectiveness > > Hi Suresh, > > That hasn't been true for something like a decade. Anybody who filters > anything shorter than /24 without also taking a default route (or the > equivalent) is not fully connected to the Internet. > > Regards, > Bill Herrin > > > > -- > William Herrin ................ herrin at dirtside.com bill at herrin.us > Owner, Dirtside Systems ......... Web: From stillwaxin at gmail.com Fri Oct 2 17:08:16 2015 From: stillwaxin at gmail.com (Michael Still) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 13:08:16 -0400 Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: References: <80BBB162-5EB8-49F9-AF94-98D8B4C25DCB@mtin.net> <8DFD80FA-955E-454B-929E-7500140F9DA7@gmail.com> Message-ID: There are lots of transits that will take le 32 on their customers inbound but filter le 24 on egress announcements. On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 12:47 PM, Jason Baugher wrote: > Are you suggesting that the Tier 1 and 2's that I connect to are not > filtering out anything shorter than /24? My expectation is that they are > dropping shorter than /24, just like I am. > > Correct me if I'm wrong, but every *NOG BGP best practices document I've > read has advocated dropping all prefixes shorter than /24 at ingress and > egress. > > On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 11:34 AM, William Herrin wrote: > > > On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 11:55 AM, Suresh Ramasubramanian > > wrote: > > > Besides which more than one provider filters by a minimum prefix length > > > per /8 - wasn't Swisscom or someone similar doing that? So multi > > > homing with even a /24 is somewhat patchy in terms of effectiveness > > > > Hi Suresh, > > > > That hasn't been true for something like a decade. Anybody who filters > > anything shorter than /24 without also taking a default route (or the > > equivalent) is not fully connected to the Internet. > > > > Regards, > > Bill Herrin > > > > > > > > -- > > William Herrin ................ herrin at dirtside.com bill at herrin.us > > Owner, Dirtside Systems ......... Web: > > > -- [stillwaxin at gmail.com ~]$ cat .signature cat: .signature: No such file or directory [stillwaxin at gmail.com ~]$ From jason at thebaughers.com Fri Oct 2 17:21:22 2015 From: jason at thebaughers.com (Jason Baugher) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 12:21:22 -0500 Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: References: <80BBB162-5EB8-49F9-AF94-98D8B4C25DCB@mtin.net> <8DFD80FA-955E-454B-929E-7500140F9DA7@gmail.com> Message-ID: My incorrect verbiage aside, what did you think about the question I asked? On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 12:06 PM, William Herrin wrote: > > On Oct 2, 2015 12:47 PM, "Jason Baugher" wrote: > > > > Are you suggesting that the Tier 1 and 2's that I connect to are not > filtering out anything shorter than /24? My expectation is that they are > dropping shorter than /24, just like I am. > > You mean longer. A /16 is shorter than /24. A /28 is longer. More 1 bits > in a row. > > -Bill > From bicknell at ufp.org Fri Oct 2 17:28:41 2015 From: bicknell at ufp.org (Leo Bicknell) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 10:28:41 -0700 Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: References: <80BBB162-5EB8-49F9-AF94-98D8B4C25DCB@mtin.net> <8DFD80FA-955E-454B-929E-7500140F9DA7@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20151002172841.GA81235@ussenterprise.ufp.org> In a message written on Fri, Oct 02, 2015 at 11:47:31AM -0500, Jason Baugher wrote: > Are you suggesting that the Tier 1 and 2's that I connect to are not > filtering out anything shorter than /24? My expectation is that they are > dropping shorter than /24, just like I am. Not exactly, but it's not what the other poster is implying either. Many providers let a customer multi-home to the provider. That is they provide two circuits from two different POPs to the customer. Allocate the customer a /27-/29 from the provider's supernet. The customer announces these small blocks back to the provider to get high availability. The provider does not announce externally, because it is part of the supernet. In Cisco speak: ip prefix-list my-supernets-small-subnets permit 10.0.0.0/8 ge 24 ip prefix-list my-supernets-small-subnets permit 172.16.0.0/12 ge 24 ! ...some route-map customer-in stuff... ! route-map customer-in permit 100 match ip prefix-list my-supernets-small-subnets set community 1234:1234 1234:5678 no-export ! ...some route-map customer-in stuff... ! Yes, many tier 1's will allow longer than /24 _from their customers_ and _out of their supernets_, and will not reannounce them. -- Leo Bicknell - bicknell at ufp.org PGP keys at http://www.ufp.org/~bicknell/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 811 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jason at thebaughers.com Fri Oct 2 17:46:00 2015 From: jason at thebaughers.com (Jason Baugher) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 12:46:00 -0500 Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: References: <80BBB162-5EB8-49F9-AF94-98D8B4C25DCB@mtin.net> <8DFD80FA-955E-454B-929E-7500140F9DA7@gmail.com> Message-ID: Bill, I see where I went wrong now that I went back and re-read your comment. I was conflating "longer" and "shorter". Thanks for your patience on this trying Friday. On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 12:06 PM, William Herrin wrote: > > On Oct 2, 2015 12:47 PM, "Jason Baugher" wrote: > > > > Are you suggesting that the Tier 1 and 2's that I connect to are not > filtering out anything shorter than /24? My expectation is that they are > dropping shorter than /24, just like I am. > > You mean longer. A /16 is shorter than /24. A /28 is longer. More 1 bits > in a row. > > -Bill > From bill at herrin.us Fri Oct 2 17:56:07 2015 From: bill at herrin.us (William Herrin) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 13:56:07 -0400 Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: References: <80BBB162-5EB8-49F9-AF94-98D8B4C25DCB@mtin.net> <8DFD80FA-955E-454B-929E-7500140F9DA7@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 1:46 PM, Jason Baugher wrote: > Bill, I see where I went wrong now that I went back and re-read your > comment. I was conflating "longer" and "shorter". Thanks for your patience > on this trying Friday. Hi Jason, No sweat. Bit of an interesting history behind the terminology. We all used to say "larger" or "smaller" when talking about netmasks but that got confusing. Does larger mean more IP addresses (numerically smaller netmask) or does larger mean a numerically larger netmask (fewer IP addresses)? Some clever fellow (does anybody know who?) figured out that longer and shorter don't present that contextual confusion. There can be a longer netmask (more 1 bits in a row) but a "longer quantity of IP addresses" doesn't make sense. Regards, Bill Herrin -- William Herrin ................ herrin at dirtside.com bill at herrin.us Owner, Dirtside Systems ......... Web: From owen at delong.com Fri Oct 2 18:07:35 2015 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 11:07:35 -0700 Subject: How to force rapid ipv6 adoption In-Reply-To: References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560D9DD0.2030904@Janoszka.pl> <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE@delong.com> <20151001222813.B9469391102B@rock.dv.isc.org> <20151001232613.GD123100@rootmail.cc.le.ac.uk> <55A3A845-751A-4F21-BC6E-8549DD7BEFCB@delong.com> <9FB08507-F739-40CA-AA98-6D35B61F7C95@delong.com> Message-ID: <9591EA37-1A36-42AF-B5DC-E9FA737D6CE2@delong.com> > On Oct 1, 2015, at 18:37 , Todd Underwood wrote: > > Either there are multiple translation systems that exist that were invented late or there are not. Either Owen has never heard of any of them or he is trolling. > > There are multiple translation systems and I?ve heard of most, if not all of them. None of them does what you propose ? Smooth seamless communication between an IPv4-only host and an IPv6-only host. So, please, Todd, explicate exactly how you would achieve that stated objective? What could you do differently on the IPv6-only host side that would allow smooth seamless connectivity to/from the IPv4 host while still providing a larger address space? > In any case I'm giving up on that conversation. And this whole one. It goes nowhere. > > And this is why v6 is where it is: true believers. Instead of a simple, practical matter of engineering a transition we got 15 years of advocacy. > If it?s so simple, why do you continue to refuse to explain the process? Owen From nanog at reth.se Fri Oct 2 18:08:58 2015 From: nanog at reth.se (Robin Johansson) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 20:08:58 +0200 Subject: How to force rapid ipv6 adoption In-Reply-To: <639A3CAD-88A3-4CAB-BD36-2C0AC0D34B1B@silverlakeinternet.com> References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560D9DD0.2030904@Janoszka.pl> <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE@delong.com> <20151001222813.B9469391102B@rock.dv.isc.org> <20151001232613.GD123100@rootmail.cc.le.ac.uk> <20151002000125.9CD573911EF5@rock.dv.isc.org> <639A3CAD-88A3-4CAB-BD36-2C0AC0D34B1B@silverlakeinternet.com> Message-ID: <20151002200858.6a4154ab@rjohanssonlap.vbg.se.prnw.net> Hi, Stop counting /64 subnets the same way you count ipv4 addresses. The proper concept to be able to have plug-and-play customer-grade network equipment would be to use prefix delegation. Thus counting levels of network devices instead. Consider the scenario in the attached sketch. It's a home with a router cpe that get's a block from isp via PD, could be /56 or /48. Customer have a wireless router connected, that requests a block from cpe. later the customer buys another wireless router to extend the network, and connects it to the old wireless router where it requests a block. This is a case that happens today already with multiple levels of NAT, not something that might eventually happen in the future. A reasonable assumption is that each sublevel device gets a PD block 4 bits longer then the last level. This allows for up to 15 directly connected routers. If the ISP hands out /56, then the first wireless router gets a /60 assigned, allowing for 16 attached /64 networks. The second wireless router can't get an block (out of bits), and will not work, plug-and-play breaks. This is likely to cause support calls as it worked with ipv4 (using NAT4444). If a /48 is assigned to each customer, then the first wireless router gets a /52, second router a /56 and there is room to connect one more level of devices. All works out of the box, everyone is happy, no support calls. On Fri, 2 Oct 2015 08:56:54 -0600 Brett A Mansfield wrote: > The problem with this is some of us smaller guys don't have the > ability to get IPv6 addresses from our upstream providers that don't > support it. And even if we did do dual stack, then we're paying for > both IPv4 and IPv6 addresses. The cost is just too high. ARIN should > give anyone with a current IPv4 address block a free equivalently > sized IPv6 block (256 IPv4 = 256 /56s or one /48 IPv6). If they did > that, there would be a lot more IPv6 adoption in dual stack. > > I don't understand why anyone would give an end user a /48. That is > over 65,000 individual devices. A /56 is 256 devices which is the > standard /24 IPv4. What home user has that many devices??? A /56 to > the home should be standard. Based on giving each customer a /56, I > could run my entire small ISP off a single /48. I know there are a > lot of IP addresses in the IPv6 realm, but why waste them? At the > rate were going, everything will have an IP address soon. Maybe one > day each item of your clothing will need their own IP address to tell > you if it's time to wash or if it needs repair. Stranger things have > happened. > > Thank you, > Brett A Mansfield > > > On Oct 2, 2015, at 8:27 AM, Steve Mikulasik > > wrote: > > > > I think more focus needs to be for carriers to deliver dual stack > > to their customers door step, whether they demand/use it or not. > > Small ISPs are probably in the best position to do this and will > > help push the big boys along with time. If we follow the network > > effect (reason why IPv4 lives and IPv6 is slowly growing), IPv6 > > needs more nodes, all other efforts are meaningless if they do not > > result in more users having IPv6 delivered to their door. > > > > I think people get too lost in the weeds when they start focusing > > on device support, home router support, user knowledge, etc. Just > > get it working to the people and we can figure out the rest later. > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces at nanog.org] On Behalf Of Mark > > Andrews Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2015 6:01 PM > > To: Matthew Newton > > Cc: nanog at nanog.org > > Subject: Re: How to force rapid ipv6 adoption > > > > > > In message <20151001232613.GD123100 at rootmail.cc.le.ac.uk>, Matthew > > Newton writes: > > > > Additionally it is now a OLD addressing protocol. We are about to > > see young adults that have never lived in a world without IPv6. It > > may not have been universally available when they were born but it > > was available. There are definitely school leavers that have never > > lived in a world where IPv6 did not exist. My daughter will be one > > of them next year when she finishes year 12. IPv6 is 7 months > > older than she is. > > > > Some of us have been running IPv6 in production for over a decade > > now and developing products that support IPv6 even longer. > > > > We have had 17 years to build up a universal IPv6 network. It > > should have been done by now. > > > > Mark > > > >> -- > >> Matthew Newton, Ph.D. > >> > >> Systems Specialist, Infrastructure Services, I.T. Services, > >> University of Leicester, Leicester LE1 7RH, United Kingdom > >> > >> For IT help contact helpdesk extn. 2253, > > -- > > Mark Andrews, ISC > > 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia > > PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: marka at isc.org > > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 173 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From bill at herrin.us Fri Oct 2 18:09:16 2015 From: bill at herrin.us (William Herrin) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 14:09:16 -0400 Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: <1639177133.2050.1443801117995.JavaMail.mhammett@ThunderFuck> References: <3E65E40D-FCF2-4B16-88A4-D78D04CC79AD@matthew.at> <1639177133.2050.1443801117995.JavaMail.mhammett@ThunderFuck> Message-ID: On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 11:50 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: > How many routers out there have this limitation? A $100 router > I bought ten years ago could manage many full tables. If > someone's network can't match that today, should I really have > any pity for them? Hi Mike, The technology doesn't work the way you think it does. Or more precisely, it only works the way you think it does on small (cheap) end-user routers. Those routers do everything in software on a general-purpose CPU using radix tries for the forwarding table (FIB). They don't have to (and can't) handle both high data rates and large routing tables at the same time. For a better understanding how the big iron works, check out https://www.pagiamtzis.com/cam/camintro/ . You'll occasionally see folks here talk about TCAM. This stands for Ternary Content Addressable Memory. It's a special circuit, different from DRAM and SRAM, used by most (but not all) big iron routers. The TCAM permits an O(1) route lookup instead of an O(log n) lookup. The architectural differences which balloon from there move the router cost from your $100 router into the hundreds of thousands of dollars. Your BGP advertisement doesn't just have to be carried on your $100 router. It also has to be carried on the half-million-dollar routers. That makes it expensive. Though out of date, this paper should help you better understand the systemic cost of a BGP route advertisement: http://bill.herrin.us/network/bgpcost.html Regards, Bill Herrin -- William Herrin ................ herrin at dirtside.com bill at herrin.us Owner, Dirtside Systems ......... Web: From owen at delong.com Fri Oct 2 18:10:30 2015 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 11:10:30 -0700 Subject: How to force rapid ipv6 adoption In-Reply-To: <2BB18527-2F9C-4FEE-95DD-3F89919A8049@xyonet.com> References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560D844E.9010308@xyonet.com> <2BB18527-2F9C-4FEE-95DD-3F89919A8049@xyonet.com> Message-ID: <9EFDBE5F-FB4D-46B1-A0A1-A4212440C792@delong.com> Hardware upgrades aren?t difficulty inherent in the protocol. Sure, everyone has to upgrade their hardware sometimes. Whether it?s to get IPv6 capable hardware or to address some other need, periodic hardware upgrades are a simple fact of life. However, if TW put up IPv6 tomorrow as dual-stack, your firewall would not stop working, you just wouldn?t be able to use IPv6 until you upgraded. Owen > On Oct 1, 2015, at 19:52 , Curtis Maurand wrote: > > If Time Warner (my ISP) put up IPv6 tomorrow, my firewall would no longer work. I could put up a pfsnse or vyatta box pretty quickly, but my off the shelf Cisco/Linksys home router has no ipv6 support hence the need to replace the hardware. There's no firmware update for it supporting ipv6 either. There would be millions of people in the same boat. > > Cheers, > Curtis > > On October 1, 2015 5:44:46 PM ADT, Owen DeLong wrote: > > On Oct 1, 2015, at 12:06 , Curtis Maurand wrote: > > > > On 10/1/2015 2:29 PM, Owen DeLong wrote: > On Oct 1, 2015, at 00:39 , Baldur Norddahl wrote: > > On 1 October 2015 at 03:26, Mark Andrews wrote: > > Windows XP does IPv6 fine so long as there is a IPv4 recursive > server available. It's just a simple command to install IPv6. > > netsh interface > ipv6 install > > If the customer knew how to do that he wouldn't still be using Windows XP. > > > Actually I don't expect Gmail and Facebook to be IPv4 only forever. > > Gmail and Facebook are already dual stack enabled. But I do not see > Facebook turning off IPv4 for a very long time. Therefore a customer that > only uses the Internet for a few basic things will be able to get along > with being IPv4-only for a very long time. > > Yes and no? > > I think you are right about facebook. > > However, I think eventually the residential ISPs are going to start charging extra > for IPv4 service. Some residences may pay for it initially, but if they think there?s a > way to move away from it and the ISPs start fingerpointing to the specific laggards, > you?ll see a groundswell of consumers pushing to find alternatives. > > Owen > > ipv6 is going to force a lot of consumers to replace hardware. Worse, it's not easy to set up and get right as ipv4 is. > > --Curtis > > You?re going to have to elaborate on that one?. I think IPv6 is actually quite a bit easier than IPv4, so please explicate > in what ways it is harder to set up and get right? > > For the average household, it?s plug the IPv6-capable router in and let it go. > > For more advanced environments, it might take nearly as much effort as IPv4 and the unfamiliarity might add a couple > of additional challenges the first time, but once you get past that, IPv6 has a lot of features that actually make it > easier than IPv4. > > Not having to deal with NAT being just one of the big ones. > > Owen > > > -- > Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. From cscora at apnic.net Fri Oct 2 18:11:33 2015 From: cscora at apnic.net (Routing Analysis Role Account) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2015 04:11:33 +1000 (AEST) Subject: Weekly Routing Table Report Message-ID: <201510021811.t92IBXpf015778@thyme.rand.apnic.net> This is an automated weekly mailing describing the state of the Internet Routing Table as seen from APNIC's router in Japan. The posting is sent to APOPS, NANOG, AfNOG, AusNOG, SANOG, PacNOG, CaribNOG and the RIPE Routing Working Group. Daily listings are sent to bgp-stats at lists.apnic.net For historical data, please see http://thyme.rand.apnic.net. If you have any comments please contact Philip Smith . Routing Table Report 04:00 +10GMT Sat 03 Oct, 2015 Report Website: http://thyme.rand.apnic.net Detailed Analysis: http://thyme.rand.apnic.net/current/ Analysis Summary ---------------- BGP routing table entries examined: 564808 Prefixes after maximum aggregation (per Origin AS): 210720 Deaggregation factor: 2.68 Unique aggregates announced (without unneeded subnets): 274629 Total ASes present in the Internet Routing Table: 51616 Prefixes per ASN: 10.94 Origin-only ASes present in the Internet Routing Table: 36653 Origin ASes announcing only one prefix: 16084 Transit ASes present in the Internet Routing Table: 6419 Transit-only ASes present in the Internet Routing Table: 172 Average AS path length visible in the Internet Routing Table: 4.5 Max AS path length visible: 46 Max AS path prepend of ASN ( 55644) 41 Prefixes from unregistered ASNs in the Routing Table: 1060 Unregistered ASNs in the Routing Table: 404 Number of 32-bit ASNs allocated by the RIRs: 11198 Number of 32-bit ASNs visible in the Routing Table: 8544 Prefixes from 32-bit ASNs in the Routing Table: 32281 Number of bogon 32-bit ASNs visible in the Routing Table: 15 Special use prefixes present in the Routing Table: 1 Prefixes being announced from unallocated address space: 419 Number of addresses announced to Internet: 2811706304 Equivalent to 167 /8s, 151 /16s and 59 /24s Percentage of available address space announced: 75.9 Percentage of allocated address space announced: 75.9 Percentage of available address space allocated: 100.0 Percentage of address space in use by end-sites: 97.6 Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations: 186802 APNIC Region Analysis Summary ----------------------------- Prefixes being announced by APNIC Region ASes: 143326 Total APNIC prefixes after maximum aggregation: 39870 APNIC Deaggregation factor: 3.59 Prefixes being announced from the APNIC address blocks: 150997 Unique aggregates announced from the APNIC address blocks: 59805 APNIC Region origin ASes present in the Internet Routing Table: 5100 APNIC Prefixes per ASN: 29.61 APNIC Region origin ASes announcing only one prefix: 1200 APNIC Region transit ASes present in the Internet Routing Table: 897 Average APNIC Region AS path length visible: 4.5 Max APNIC Region AS path length visible: 45 Number of APNIC region 32-bit ASNs visible in the Routing Table: 1633 Number of APNIC addresses announced to Internet: 753578752 Equivalent to 44 /8s, 234 /16s and 179 /24s Percentage of available APNIC address space announced: 88.1 APNIC AS Blocks 4608-4864, 7467-7722, 9216-10239, 17408-18431 (pre-ERX allocations) 23552-24575, 37888-38911, 45056-46079, 55296-56319, 58368-59391, 63488-64098, 131072-135580 APNIC Address Blocks 1/8, 14/8, 27/8, 36/8, 39/8, 42/8, 43/8, 49/8, 58/8, 59/8, 60/8, 61/8, 101/8, 103/8, 106/8, 110/8, 111/8, 112/8, 113/8, 114/8, 115/8, 116/8, 117/8, 118/8, 119/8, 120/8, 121/8, 122/8, 123/8, 124/8, 125/8, 126/8, 133/8, 150/8, 153/8, 163/8, 171/8, 175/8, 180/8, 182/8, 183/8, 202/8, 203/8, 210/8, 211/8, 218/8, 219/8, 220/8, 221/8, 222/8, 223/8, ARIN Region Analysis Summary ---------------------------- Prefixes being announced by ARIN Region ASes: 179951 Total ARIN prefixes after maximum aggregation: 88237 ARIN Deaggregation factor: 2.04 Prefixes being announced from the ARIN address blocks: 183020 Unique aggregates announced from the ARIN address blocks: 86528 ARIN Region origin ASes present in the Internet Routing Table: 16573 ARIN Prefixes per ASN: 11.04 ARIN Region origin ASes announcing only one prefix: 6042 ARIN Region transit ASes present in the Internet Routing Table: 1748 Average ARIN Region AS path length visible: 3.9 Max ARIN Region AS path length visible: 27 Number of ARIN region 32-bit ASNs visible in the Routing Table: 725 Number of ARIN addresses announced to Internet: 1118647488 Equivalent to 66 /8s, 173 /16s and 52 /24s Percentage of available ARIN address space announced: 59.2 ARIN AS Blocks 1-1876, 1902-2042, 2044-2046, 2048-2106 (pre-ERX allocations) 2138-2584, 2615-2772, 2823-2829, 2880-3153 3354-4607, 4865-5119, 5632-6655, 6912-7466 7723-8191, 10240-12287, 13312-15359, 16384-17407 18432-20479, 21504-23551, 25600-26591, 26624-27647, 29696-30719, 31744-33791 35840-36863, 39936-40959, 46080-47103 53248-55295, 62464-63487, 64198-64296, 393216-395164 ARIN Address Blocks 3/8, 4/8, 6/8, 7/8, 8/8, 9/8, 11/8, 12/8, 13/8, 15/8, 16/8, 17/8, 18/8, 19/8, 20/8, 21/8, 22/8, 23/8, 24/8, 26/8, 28/8, 29/8, 30/8, 32/8, 33/8, 34/8, 35/8, 38/8, 40/8, 44/8, 45/8, 47/8, 48/8, 50/8, 52/8, 53/8, 54/8, 55/8, 56/8, 57/8, 63/8, 64/8, 65/8, 66/8, 67/8, 68/8, 69/8, 70/8, 71/8, 72/8, 73/8, 74/8, 75/8, 76/8, 96/8, 97/8, 98/8, 99/8, 100/8, 104/8, 107/8, 108/8, 128/8, 129/8, 130/8, 131/8, 132/8, 134/8, 135/8, 136/8, 137/8, 138/8, 139/8, 140/8, 142/8, 143/8, 144/8, 146/8, 147/8, 148/8, 149/8, 152/8, 155/8, 156/8, 157/8, 158/8, 159/8, 160/8, 161/8, 162/8, 164/8, 165/8, 166/8, 167/8, 168/8, 169/8, 170/8, 172/8, 173/8, 174/8, 184/8, 192/8, 198/8, 199/8, 204/8, 205/8, 206/8, 207/8, 208/8, 209/8, 214/8, 215/8, 216/8, RIPE Region Analysis Summary ---------------------------- Prefixes being announced by RIPE Region ASes: 136089 Total RIPE prefixes after maximum aggregation: 67822 RIPE Deaggregation factor: 2.01 Prefixes being announced from the RIPE address blocks: 143174 Unique aggregates announced from the RIPE address blocks: 88840 RIPE Region origin ASes present in the Internet Routing Table: 17993 RIPE Prefixes per ASN: 7.96 RIPE Region origin ASes announcing only one prefix: 8038 RIPE Region transit ASes present in the Internet Routing Table: 2987 Average RIPE Region AS path length visible: 4.9 Max RIPE Region AS path length visible: 32 Number of RIPE region 32-bit ASNs visible in the Routing Table: 4057 Number of RIPE addresses announced to Internet: 699578624 Equivalent to 41 /8s, 178 /16s and 185 /24s Percentage of available RIPE address space announced: 101.7 RIPE AS Blocks 1877-1901, 2043, 2047, 2107-2136, 2585-2614 (pre-ERX allocations) 2773-2822, 2830-2879, 3154-3353, 5377-5631 6656-6911, 8192-9215, 12288-13311, 15360-16383 20480-21503, 24576-25599, 28672-29695 30720-31743, 33792-35839, 38912-39935 40960-45055, 47104-52223, 56320-58367 59392-61439, 61952-62463, 196608-204287 RIPE Address Blocks 2/8, 5/8, 25/8, 31/8, 37/8, 46/8, 51/8, 62/8, 77/8, 78/8, 79/8, 80/8, 81/8, 82/8, 83/8, 84/8, 85/8, 86/8, 87/8, 88/8, 89/8, 90/8, 91/8, 92/8, 93/8, 94/8, 95/8, 109/8, 141/8, 145/8, 151/8, 176/8, 178/8, 185/8, 188/8, 193/8, 194/8, 195/8, 212/8, 213/8, 217/8, LACNIC Region Analysis Summary ------------------------------ Prefixes being announced by LACNIC Region ASes: 60645 Total LACNIC prefixes after maximum aggregation: 11659 LACNIC Deaggregation factor: 5.20 Prefixes being announced from the LACNIC address blocks: 72799 Unique aggregates announced from the LACNIC address blocks: 33697 LACNIC Region origin ASes present in the Internet Routing Table: 2469 LACNIC Prefixes per ASN: 29.49 LACNIC Region origin ASes announcing only one prefix: 611 LACNIC Region transit ASes present in the Internet Routing Table: 535 Average LACNIC Region AS path length visible: 4.9 Max LACNIC Region AS path length visible: 28 Number of LACNIC region 32-bit ASNs visible in the Routing Table: 1977 Number of LACNIC addresses announced to Internet: 169465600 Equivalent to 10 /8s, 25 /16s and 215 /24s Percentage of available LACNIC address space announced: 101.0 LACNIC AS Blocks 26592-26623, 27648-28671, 52224-53247, 61440-61951, 64099-64197, 262144-265628 + ERX transfers LACNIC Address Blocks 177/8, 179/8, 181/8, 186/8, 187/8, 189/8, 190/8, 191/8, 200/8, 201/8, AfriNIC Region Analysis Summary ------------------------------- Prefixes being announced by AfriNIC Region ASes: 12404 Total AfriNIC prefixes after maximum aggregation: 3090 AfriNIC Deaggregation factor: 4.01 Prefixes being announced from the AfriNIC address blocks: 14399 Unique aggregates announced from the AfriNIC address blocks: 5400 AfriNIC Region origin ASes present in the Internet Routing Table: 737 AfriNIC Prefixes per ASN: 19.54 AfriNIC Region origin ASes announcing only one prefix: 193 AfriNIC Region transit ASes present in the Internet Routing Table: 171 Average AfriNIC Region AS path length visible: 4.6 Max AfriNIC Region AS path length visible: 27 Number of AfriNIC region 32-bit ASNs visible in the Routing Table: 152 Number of AfriNIC addresses announced to Internet: 69958400 Equivalent to 4 /8s, 43 /16s and 123 /24s Percentage of available AfriNIC address space announced: 69.5 AfriNIC AS Blocks 36864-37887, 327680-328703 & ERX transfers AfriNIC Address Blocks 41/8, 102/8, 105/8, 154/8, 196/8, 197/8, APNIC Region per AS prefix count summary ---------------------------------------- ASN No of nets /20 equiv MaxAgg Description 4538 5590 4192 76 China Education and Research 4766 3013 11134 984 Korea Telecom 7545 2812 339 138 TPG Telecom Limited 17974 2710 908 90 PT Telekomunikasi Indonesia 4755 2048 428 230 TATA Communications formerly 9829 1911 1383 227 National Internet Backbone 9808 1620 8639 18 Guangdong Mobile Communicatio 4812 1574 2099 113 China Telecom (Group) 4808 1523 2258 481 CNCGROUP IP network China169 9583 1502 120 562 Sify Limited Complete listing at http://thyme.rand.apnic.net/current/data-ASnet-APNIC ARIN Region per AS prefix count summary --------------------------------------- ASN No of nets /20 equiv MaxAgg Description 22773 3190 2966 144 Cox Communications Inc. 6389 2686 3688 44 BellSouth.net Inc. 3356 2518 10709 496 Level 3 Communications, Inc. 18566 2175 393 264 MegaPath Corporation 20115 1889 1885 395 Charter Communications 6983 1739 866 241 EarthLink, Inc. 30036 1635 331 351 Mediacom Communications Corp 4323 1585 1005 406 tw telecom holdings, inc. 701 1398 11401 674 MCI Communications Services, 22561 1281 365 215 CenturyTel Internet Holdings, Complete listing at http://thyme.rand.apnic.net/current/data-ASnet-ARIN RIPE Region per AS prefix count summary --------------------------------------- ASN No of nets /20 equiv MaxAgg Description 39891 2473 129 7 SaudiNet, Saudi Telecom Compa 20940 2148 847 1557 Akamai International B.V. 34984 2041 306 378 TELLCOM ILETISIM HIZMETLERI A 6849 1209 355 21 JSC "Ukrtelecom" 8402 1101 544 15 OJSC "Vimpelcom" 13188 1072 97 76 TOV "Bank-Inform" 31148 1038 46 41 Freenet Ltd. 12479 1016 965 80 France Telecom Espana SA 8551 982 376 52 Bezeq International-Ltd 6830 900 2694 465 Liberty Global Operations B.V Complete listing at http://thyme.rand.apnic.net/current/data-ASnet-RIPE LACNIC Region per AS prefix count summary ----------------------------------------- ASN No of nets /20 equiv MaxAgg Description 10620 3394 542 128 Telmex Colombia S.A. 28573 2109 2167 120 NET Servi?os de Comunica??o S 8151 1798 3303 490 Uninet S.A. de C.V. 7303 1571 938 238 Telecom Argentina S.A. 6503 1399 437 55 Axtel, S.A.B. de C.V. 6147 1060 374 30 Telefonica del Peru S.A.A. 26615 1020 2325 35 Tim Celular S.A. 7738 997 1882 41 Telemar Norte Leste S.A. 11830 995 364 24 Instituto Costarricense de El 3816 955 437 164 COLOMBIA TELECOMUNICACIONES S Complete listing at http://thyme.rand.apnic.net/current/data-ASnet-LACNIC AfriNIC Region per AS prefix count summary ------------------------------------------ ASN No of nets /20 equiv MaxAgg Description 8452 992 1470 14 TE-AS 24863 868 409 38 Link Egypt (Link.NET) 36903 521 262 102 Office National des Postes et 36992 439 1229 32 ETISALAT MISR 24835 323 146 12 Vodafone Data 37492 315 191 72 Orange Tunisie 29571 246 21 12 Cote d'Ivoire Telecom 3741 223 853 184 Internet Solutions 36947 198 807 13 Telecom Algeria 15706 172 32 7 Sudatel (Sudan Telecom Co. Lt Complete listing at http://thyme.rand.apnic.net/current/data-ASnet-AFRINIC Global Per AS prefix count summary ---------------------------------- ASN No of nets /20 equiv MaxAgg Description 4538 5590 4192 76 China Education and Research 10620 3394 542 128 Telmex Colombia S.A. 22773 3190 2966 144 Cox Communications Inc. 4766 3013 11134 984 Korea Telecom 7545 2812 339 138 TPG Telecom Limited 17974 2710 908 90 PT Telekomunikasi Indonesia 6389 2686 3688 44 BellSouth.net Inc. 3356 2518 10709 496 Level 3 Communications, Inc. 39891 2473 129 7 SaudiNet, Saudi Telecom Compa 18566 2175 393 264 MegaPath Corporation Complete listing at http://thyme.rand.apnic.net/current/data-ASnet Global Per AS Maximum Aggr summary ---------------------------------- ASN No of nets Net Savings Description 10620 3394 3266 Telmex Colombia S.A. 22773 3190 3046 Cox Communications Inc. 7545 2812 2674 TPG Telecom Limited 6389 2686 2642 BellSouth.net Inc. 17974 2710 2620 PT Telekomunikasi Indonesia 39891 2473 2466 SaudiNet, Saudi Telecom Compa 4766 3013 2029 Korea Telecom 3356 2518 2022 Level 3 Communications, Inc. 28573 2109 1989 NET Servi?os de Comunica??o S 18566 2175 1911 MegaPath Corporation Complete listing at http://thyme.rand.apnic.net/current/data-CIDRnet List of Unregistered Origin ASNs (Global) ----------------------------------------- Bad AS Designation Network Transit AS Description 30662 UNALLOCATED 8.2.129.0/24 3356 Level 3 Communicatio 47092 UNALLOCATED 8.8.204.0/24 16410 The Reynolds and Rey 53506 UNALLOCATED 8.17.102.0/23 2828 XO Communications 46467 UNALLOCATED 8.19.192.0/24 46887 Lightower Fiber Netw 18985 UNALLOCATED 8.21.68.0/22 3356 Level 3 Communicatio 46473 UNALLOCATED 8.27.122.0/24 12180 Internap Network Ser 46473 UNALLOCATED 8.27.124.0/24 12180 Internap Network Ser 27205 UNALLOCATED 8.38.16.0/21 6461 Abovenet Communicati 15347 UNALLOCATED 8.224.147.0/24 12064 Cox Communications I 33628 UNALLOCATED 12.0.239.0/24 1239 Sprint Complete listing at http://thyme.rand.apnic.net/current/data-badAS Prefixes from private and non-routed address space (Global) ----------------------------------------------------------- Prefix Origin AS Description 100.100.1.0/24 9730 Bharti Telesonic Ltd Complete listing at http://thyme.rand.apnic.net/current/data-dsua Advertised Unallocated Addresses -------------------------------- Network Origin AS Description 23.226.112.0/20 62788 >>UNKNOWN<< 23.249.144.0/20 40430 colo4jax, LLC 23.249.144.0/21 40430 colo4jax, LLC 23.249.152.0/21 40430 colo4jax, LLC 27.50.8.0/24 55548 >>UNKNOWN<< 27.50.9.0/24 55548 >>UNKNOWN<< 27.50.10.0/24 55548 >>UNKNOWN<< 27.50.11.0/24 55548 >>UNKNOWN<< 27.100.7.0/24 56096 >>UNKNOWN<< 31.217.248.0/21 44902 COVAGE NETWORKS SASU Complete listing at http://thyme.rand.apnic.net/current/data-add-IANA Number of prefixes announced per prefix length (Global) ------------------------------------------------------- /1:0 /2:0 /3:0 /4:0 /5:0 /6:0 /7:0 /8:18 /9:13 /10:36 /11:95 /12:262 /13:505 /14:1006 /15:1747 /16:12907 /17:7404 /18:12608 /19:26219 /20:37339 /21:39581 /22:62162 /23:54208 /24:305941 /25:1007 /26:1065 /27:626 /28:15 /29:14 /30:9 /31:0 /32:21 Advertised prefixes smaller than registry allocations ----------------------------------------------------- ASN No of nets Total ann. Description 39891 2432 2473 SaudiNet, Saudi Telecom Compa 22773 2398 3190 Cox Communications Inc. 18566 2081 2175 MegaPath Corporation 6389 1607 2686 BellSouth.net Inc. 30036 1454 1635 Mediacom Communications Corp 6983 1386 1739 EarthLink, Inc. 34984 1361 2041 TELLCOM ILETISIM HIZMETLERI A 10620 1260 3394 Telmex Colombia S.A. 11492 1127 1209 CABLE ONE, INC. 6849 992 1209 JSC "Ukrtelecom" Complete listing at http://thyme.rand.apnic.net/current/data-sXXas-nos Number of /24s announced per /8 block (Global) ---------------------------------------------- 1:1589 2:692 4:97 5:1896 6:25 8:1403 12:1808 13:17 14:1434 15:16 16:2 17:50 18:22 20:51 23:1264 24:1738 27:2065 31:1628 32:52 33:2 34:2 35:4 36:161 37:2037 38:1075 39:15 40:72 41:2832 42:340 43:1550 44:32 45:1306 46:2347 47:57 49:1004 50:804 52:23 54:94 55:5 56:6 57:43 58:1417 59:776 60:457 61:1782 62:1428 63:1903 64:4383 65:2236 66:3998 67:2073 68:1076 69:3269 70:1037 71:454 72:1982 74:2551 75:364 76:395 77:1372 78:1227 79:808 80:1354 81:1360 82:888 83:670 84:777 85:1399 86:448 87:1029 88:535 89:1930 90:151 91:6000 92:847 93:2282 94:2128 95:2162 96:461 97:349 98:957 99:56 100:75 101:846 103:8403 104:2013 105:78 106:350 107:1055 108:629 109:2145 110:1218 111:1471 112:836 113:1123 114:868 115:1375 116:1513 117:1110 118:1929 119:1492 120:472 121:1149 122:2182 123:1853 124:1545 125:1672 128:703 129:342 130:432 131:1250 132:539 133:162 134:430 135:106 136:349 137:296 138:1365 139:174 140:248 141:438 142:654 143:557 144:571 145:127 146:764 147:607 148:1259 149:430 150:597 151:783 152:567 153:264 154:505 155:892 156:421 157:424 158:347 159:1050 160:429 161:686 162:2132 163:472 164:691 165:859 166:301 167:878 168:1243 169:192 170:1497 171:251 172:283 173:1533 174:715 175:711 176:1459 177:4014 178:2194 179:1018 180:1944 181:1573 182:1815 183:636 184:748 185:4375 186:2876 187:1837 188:2104 189:1669 190:7584 191:1175 192:8593 193:5663 194:4279 195:3670 196:1964 197:1111 198:5516 199:5507 200:6641 201:3218 202:9718 203:9162 204:4551 205:2703 206:3042 207:2979 208:4005 209:3898 210:3724 211:2044 212:2568 213:2248 214:851 215:72 216:5737 217:1818 218:804 219:533 220:1565 221:822 222:724 223:831 End of report From owen at delong.com Fri Oct 2 18:31:02 2015 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 11:31:02 -0700 Subject: How to wish you hadn't forced ipv6 adoption (was "How to force rapid ipv6 adoption") In-Reply-To: <560E00D4.7090400@invaluement.com> References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560D9DD0.2030904@Janoszka.pl> <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE@delong.com> <20151001222813.B9469391102B@rock.dv.isc.org> <20151001232613.GD123100@rootmail.cc.le.ac.uk> <20151002000125.9CD573911EF5@rock.dv.isc.org> <560DF4BA.5000500@invaluement.com> <20151002034402.1201F39225D0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560E00D4.7090400@invaluement.com> Message-ID: <01305611-DF95-40E6-A3B0-CE0164656717@delong.com> > On Oct 1, 2015, at 20:58 , Rob McEwen wrote: > > On 10/1/2015 11:44 PM, Mark Andrews wrote: >> IPv6 really isn't much different to IPv4. You use sites /48's >> rather than addresses /32's (which are effectively sites). ISP's >> still need to justify their address space allocations to RIR's so >> their isn't infinite numbers of sites that a spammer can get. > > A /48 can be subdivided into 65K subnets. That is 65 *THOUSAND*... not the 256 IPs that one gets with an IPv4 /24 block. So if a somewhat legit hoster assigns various /64s to DIFFERENT customers of theirs... that is a lot of collateral damage that would be caused by listing at the /48 level, should just one customer be a bad-apple spammer, or just one legit customer have a compromised system one day. > > Conversely, if a more blackhat ESP did this, but it was unclear that this was a blackhat sender until much later.. then LOTS of spam would get a "free pass" as individual /64s were blacklisted AFTER-THE-FACT, with the spammy ESP still having LOTS of /64s to spare.. remember, they started with 65 THOUSAND /64 blocks for that one /48 allocation (Sure, it would eventually become clear that the whole /48 should be blacklisted). It seems to me that treating this as a binary all-or-nothing approach isn?t particularly useful. What about a system where each /48 and each /32 maintained a ?content score?. Treat /64s as you currently treat /32s (or even /24s) in IPv4. For every hour that elapsed without sending spam, the score would decrement by one. For each unblocked spam transmitted from within the block, the score would increment by one. (IOW, new spam from an already blocked /64 won?t increment the counter). If the score for a /48 reaches 16, block the /48 and put the /48 into the block timer mode. If the score for a /32 reaches 64, block the /32 and put the /32 into the block timer mode. Block timer mode: In block timer mode, look for 24 consecutive hours with an allowable outbound spam send rate, then unblock. Allowable outbound spam rate could be anything >0 and would probably require some tuning. For a /32, I?d say up to 256 messages per day or maybe even 1024 is probably within reason. For a /48, probably more like 16/day. > other gray-hat situations between these two extremes can be even more frustrating because you then have the same "free passes" that the blackhat ESP gets... but you can't list the whole /48 without too much collateral damage. In the proposal above, to achieve a score of 16, you have to have 16 different /64s from within your /48 sending bad stuff. Sure, you get a little bit of a free pass until the spammer cycles through 16 blocks of addresses, but not much because each of those blocks gets shut down fairly quickly. If a site has 16 independent /64s compromised or spamming, then the collateral damage really isn?t that heavy and for legitimate sites it should serve as reasonable motivation to clean things up. For the spammers, they?re going to need a new /48 pretty quickly and that?s going to be hard to explain to their service provider. Especially since that new /48 won?t last long, either. For the /32, yes, we?re talking about lots of collateral damage. Maybe 64 is too low of a threshold, maybe it should be 256 or even higher, but this can be tuned. The point is shut down the individual nets quickly at the /64 level to minimize collateral damage, but when ?enough? /64s within a block are shown to be offensive, consider the entire block offensive and move on. > SUMMARY: So even if you moved into blocking at the /64 level, the spammers have STILL gained an order of magnitudes advantage over the IPv4 world.... any way you slice it. And blocking at the /48 level WOULD cause too much collateral damage if don't indiscriminately. I?m not convinced of this. A /48 should be a single end-site. As such, any ISP that suffers significant collateral damage from having /48s blocked isn?t allocating addresses according to best operating practices. They can easily fix this. Every RIR allows end-site assignments at /48 with no questions asked. > And this is assuming that individual IPs are NEVER assigned individually (or in smaller-than-/64-allocations) . (maybe that is a safe assumption? I don't know? regardless, even if that were a safe assumption, the spammers STILL have gained a massive advantage) It?s not a completely safe assumption, but it?s safe enough. Owen From owen at delong.com Fri Oct 2 18:35:24 2015 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 11:35:24 -0700 Subject: How to wish you hadn't forced ipv6 adoption (was "How to force rapid ipv6 adoption") In-Reply-To: <560E0C44.5060002@invaluement.com> References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560D9DD0.2030904@Janoszka.pl> <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE@delong.com> <20151001222813.B9469391102B@rock.dv.isc.org> <20151001232613.GD123100@rootmail.cc.le.ac.uk> <20151002000125.9CD573911EF5@rock.dv.isc.org> <560DF4BA.5000500@invaluement.com> <20151002034402.1201F39225D0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560E00D4.7090400@invaluement.com> <20151002041858.984713922C86@rock.dv.isc.org> <560E0C44.5060002@invaluement.com> Message-ID: <3A415E75-7394-4DB7-846E-424A3808200B@delong.com> > On Oct 1, 2015, at 21:47 , Rob McEwen wrote: > > On 10/2/2015 12:18 AM, Mark Andrews wrote: >> A hoster can get /48's for each customer. Each customer is technically >> a seperate site. It's this stupid desire to over conserve IPv6 >> addresses that causes this not IPv6. > > In theory, yes. In practice, I'm skeptical. I think many will sub-delegate /64s Then as another poster suggested, they deserve whatever pain they suffer from this. Mark is correct? It is the ISP?s poor decision in these cases that is the problem. Not the SPAM block and not IPv6. > > Plus, nobody has yet addressed the fact that new /48s will be just so EASY to obtain since they are going to be plentiful... therefore... the LACK of scarcity will make hosters and ESP... NOT be very motivated to keep their IP space clean... as is the case now with IPv4. That?s not as true as you want to believe it to be. While /48s are not scarce globally, there is a significant cost to going back to the RIR for a larger allocation. You have to show active utilization of your existing space in order to get more. As such, ISPs are going to be motivated not to treat blocks as disposable entities. > Also, it seems so bizarre that in order to TRY to solve this, we have to make sure that MASSIVE numbers of individual IPv6 IP addresses.. that equal numbers that my calculate can't reach (too many digits)... would all be allocated to one single combined usage scenario. Then allocating only /48s multiples that number by 65K. Mind boggling You?ll get over that eventually. Once you get some experience with the conveniences and other advantages it brings, it?s actually pretty easy to wrap your head around. Owen From nanog at ics-il.net Fri Oct 2 18:37:54 2015 From: nanog at ics-il.net (Mike Hammett) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 13:37:54 -0500 (CDT) Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8965468.2594.1443811120487.JavaMail.mhammett@ThunderFuck> Chances are the revenue passing scales to some degree as well. Small business with small bandwidth needs buys small and has small revenue. Big business with big bandwidth needs buys big and has big revenue to support big router. I can think of no reason why ten years goes by and you haven't had a need to throw out the old network for new. If your business hasn't scaled with the times, then you need to get rid of your Cat 6500 and get something more power, space, heat, etc. efficient. I saw someone replace a stack of Mikrotik CCRs with a pair of old Cisco routers. I don't know what they were at the moment, but they had GBICs, so they weren't exactly new. Each router had two 2500w power supplies. They'll be worse in every way (other than *possibly* BGP convergence). The old setup consumed at most 300 watts. The new setup requires $500/month in power... and is worse. Stop using old shit. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Herrin" To: "Mike Hammett" Cc: "NANOG" Sent: Friday, October 2, 2015 1:09:16 PM Subject: Re: /27 the new /24 On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 11:50 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: > How many routers out there have this limitation? A $100 router > I bought ten years ago could manage many full tables. If > someone's network can't match that today, should I really have > any pity for them? Hi Mike, The technology doesn't work the way you think it does. Or more precisely, it only works the way you think it does on small (cheap) end-user routers. Those routers do everything in software on a general-purpose CPU using radix tries for the forwarding table (FIB). They don't have to (and can't) handle both high data rates and large routing tables at the same time. For a better understanding how the big iron works, check out https://www.pagiamtzis.com/cam/camintro/ . You'll occasionally see folks here talk about TCAM. This stands for Ternary Content Addressable Memory. It's a special circuit, different from DRAM and SRAM, used by most (but not all) big iron routers. The TCAM permits an O(1) route lookup instead of an O(log n) lookup. The architectural differences which balloon from there move the router cost from your $100 router into the hundreds of thousands of dollars. Your BGP advertisement doesn't just have to be carried on your $100 router. It also has to be carried on the half-million-dollar routers. That makes it expensive. Though out of date, this paper should help you better understand the systemic cost of a BGP route advertisement: http://bill.herrin.us/network/bgpcost.html Regards, Bill Herrin -- William Herrin ................ herrin at dirtside.com bill at herrin.us Owner, Dirtside Systems ......... Web: From owen at delong.com Fri Oct 2 18:39:01 2015 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 11:39:01 -0700 Subject: Question re session hijacking in dual stack environments w/MacOS In-Reply-To: <20151002054647.GA57805@geeks.org> References: <560A3C8F.4060306@seacom.mu> <20151002054647.GA57805@geeks.org> Message-ID: > On Oct 1, 2015, at 22:46 , Doug McIntyre wrote: > > On Tue, Sep 29, 2015 at 09:23:59AM +0200, Mark Tinka wrote: >> On 26/Sep/15 16:34, David Hubbard wrote: >>> Has anyone run into this? Our users on other platforms don't seem to >>> have this issue; linux and MS desktops seem to just use v6 if it's >>> available and v4 if not. >> >> I have been tracking down an issue for months where SSH'ing to some >> devices (which picks IPv6 by default) from my Mac while in the office >> drops the connection, forcing me to reconnect. It's random; sometimes it >> happens a lot, sometimes, rarely, other times not at all. > > I suspect this is OSX implementing IPv6 Privacy Extensions. Where OSX > generates a new random IPv6 address, applies it to the interface, and then > drops the old IPv6 addresses as they stale out. Sessions in use or not. > > sudo sysctl -w net.inet6.ip6.use_tempaddr=0 > > sudo sh -c 'echo net.inet6.ip6.use_tempaddr=0 >> /etc/sysctl.conf' I doubt it given the variable frequency he describes. If it were OSX timing out addresses, he?d see a session drop every day or two rather than frequently sometimes. Owen From mel at beckman.org Fri Oct 2 19:22:29 2015 From: mel at beckman.org (Mel Beckman) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 19:22:29 +0000 Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: <8965468.2594.1443811120487.JavaMail.mhammett@ThunderFuck> References: , <8965468.2594.1443811120487.JavaMail.mhammett@ThunderFuck> Message-ID: <26A786C1-0C58-4B19-9F68-4CFDADBC59A3@beckman.org> Often I find that used Cisco gear is more reliable and just as affordable than newer gear with that tasty, flakey crust. I've had a terrible time with CCRs falling over with 1GB traffic while Cisco L3 3750s don't even breathe hard at 10Gbps. I see no reason to use anything like 2500w even with Cisco gear. A dual Cisco 3750 stack consumes maybe 500W. Cisco firmware, for all its faults, seems to be much better tested than Mikrotik's. I once asked Mikrotik's support engineers how they performed regression testing, and they said "because we are a small, agile, disruptive innovator we don't follow old-school testing regimens. We're more interested in shipping affordable product." That's also their excuse for poor documentation. >From what I can see, "small, agile, disruptive innovator" is an excuse newer networking companies often give for "sloppy, poorly tested, ill-conceived" product development. -mel beckman > On Oct 2, 2015, at 11:44 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: > > Chances are the revenue passing scales to some degree as well. Small business with small bandwidth needs buys small and has small revenue. Big business with big bandwidth needs buys big and has big revenue to support big router. > > I can think of no reason why ten years goes by and you haven't had a need to throw out the old network for new. If your business hasn't scaled with the times, then you need to get rid of your Cat 6500 and get something more power, space, heat, etc. efficient. > > > I saw someone replace a stack of Mikrotik CCRs with a pair of old Cisco routers. I don't know what they were at the moment, but they had GBICs, so they weren't exactly new. Each router had two 2500w power supplies. They'll be worse in every way (other than *possibly* BGP convergence). The old setup consumed at most 300 watts. The new setup requires $500/month in power... and is worse. > > Stop using old shit. > > > > > ----- > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions > http://www.ics-il.com > > > > Midwest Internet Exchange > http://www.midwest-ix.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "William Herrin" > To: "Mike Hammett" > Cc: "NANOG" > Sent: Friday, October 2, 2015 1:09:16 PM > Subject: Re: /27 the new /24 > >> On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 11:50 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: >> How many routers out there have this limitation? A $100 router >> I bought ten years ago could manage many full tables. If >> someone's network can't match that today, should I really have >> any pity for them? > > Hi Mike, > > The technology doesn't work the way you think it does. Or more > precisely, it only works the way you think it does on small (cheap) > end-user routers. Those routers do everything in software on a > general-purpose CPU using radix tries for the forwarding table (FIB). > They don't have to (and can't) handle both high data rates and large > routing tables at the same time. > > For a better understanding how the big iron works, check out > https://www.pagiamtzis.com/cam/camintro/ . You'll occasionally see > folks here talk about TCAM. This stands for Ternary Content > Addressable Memory. It's a special circuit, different from DRAM and > SRAM, used by most (but not all) big iron routers. The TCAM permits an > O(1) route lookup instead of an O(log n) lookup. The architectural > differences which balloon from there move the router cost from your > $100 router into the hundreds of thousands of dollars. > > Your BGP advertisement doesn't just have to be carried on your $100 > router. It also has to be carried on the half-million-dollar routers. > That makes it expensive. > > Though out of date, this paper should help you better understand the > systemic cost of a BGP route advertisement: > http://bill.herrin.us/network/bgpcost.html > > Regards, > Bill Herrin > > > > > -- > William Herrin ................ herrin at dirtside.com bill at herrin.us > Owner, Dirtside Systems ......... Web: > From jj at anexia.at Fri Oct 2 19:25:10 2015 From: jj at anexia.at (=?utf-8?B?SsO8cmdlbiBKYXJpdHNjaA==?=) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 19:25:10 +0000 Subject: AW: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: <8965468.2594.1443811120487.JavaMail.mhammett@ThunderFuck> References: <8965468.2594.1443811120487.JavaMail.mhammett@ThunderFuck> Message-ID: <5280b516a2fc4179a92583c656455616@anx-i-dag02.anx.local> > Stop using old shit. Sorry, but the truth is: you have no idea about how earning revenue works and you obviously also have no idea about carrier grade networks. J?rgen Jaritsch Head of Network & Infrastructure ANEXIA Internetdienstleistungs GmbH Telefon: +43-5-0556-300 Telefax: +43-5-0556-500 E-Mail: JJaritsch at anexia-it.com Web: http://www.anexia-it.com Anschrift Hauptsitz Klagenfurt: Feldkirchnerstra?e 140, 9020 Klagenfurt Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Alexander Windbichler Firmenbuch: FN 289918a | Gerichtsstand: Klagenfurt | UID-Nummer: AT U63216601 -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces at nanog.org] Im Auftrag von Mike Hammett Gesendet: Freitag, 02. Oktober 2015 20:38 An: NANOG Betreff: Re: /27 the new /24 Chances are the revenue passing scales to some degree as well. Small business with small bandwidth needs buys small and has small revenue. Big business with big bandwidth needs buys big and has big revenue to support big router. I can think of no reason why ten years goes by and you haven't had a need to throw out the old network for new. If your business hasn't scaled with the times, then you need to get rid of your Cat 6500 and get something more power, space, heat, etc. efficient. I saw someone replace a stack of Mikrotik CCRs with a pair of old Cisco routers. I don't know what they were at the moment, but they had GBICs, so they weren't exactly new. Each router had two 2500w power supplies. They'll be worse in every way (other than *possibly* BGP convergence). The old setup consumed at most 300 watts. The new setup requires $500/month in power... and is worse. Stop using old shit. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Herrin" To: "Mike Hammett" Cc: "NANOG" Sent: Friday, October 2, 2015 1:09:16 PM Subject: Re: /27 the new /24 On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 11:50 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: > How many routers out there have this limitation? A $100 router > I bought ten years ago could manage many full tables. If > someone's network can't match that today, should I really have > any pity for them? Hi Mike, The technology doesn't work the way you think it does. Or more precisely, it only works the way you think it does on small (cheap) end-user routers. Those routers do everything in software on a general-purpose CPU using radix tries for the forwarding table (FIB). They don't have to (and can't) handle both high data rates and large routing tables at the same time. For a better understanding how the big iron works, check out https://www.pagiamtzis.com/cam/camintro/ . You'll occasionally see folks here talk about TCAM. This stands for Ternary Content Addressable Memory. It's a special circuit, different from DRAM and SRAM, used by most (but not all) big iron routers. The TCAM permits an O(1) route lookup instead of an O(log n) lookup. The architectural differences which balloon from there move the router cost from your $100 router into the hundreds of thousands of dollars. Your BGP advertisement doesn't just have to be carried on your $100 router. It also has to be carried on the half-million-dollar routers. That makes it expensive. Though out of date, this paper should help you better understand the systemic cost of a BGP route advertisement: http://bill.herrin.us/network/bgpcost.html Regards, Bill Herrin -- William Herrin ................ herrin at dirtside.com bill at herrin.us Owner, Dirtside Systems ......... Web: From josh at imaginenetworksllc.com Fri Oct 2 19:27:08 2015 From: josh at imaginenetworksllc.com (Josh Luthman) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 15:27:08 -0400 Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: <26A786C1-0C58-4B19-9F68-4CFDADBC59A3@beckman.org> References: <8965468.2594.1443811120487.JavaMail.mhammett@ThunderFuck> <26A786C1-0C58-4B19-9F68-4CFDADBC59A3@beckman.org> Message-ID: Can I suggest you not use a $1000 software driven device to do the job of a 500 watt device on a 10 Gbps network? Mikrotik has its faults, yes, but it certainly has a place as well. That just happens to not be where the $4,000 Cisco is. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 3:22 PM, Mel Beckman wrote: > Often I find that used Cisco gear is more reliable and just as affordable > than newer gear with that tasty, flakey crust. I've had a terrible time > with CCRs falling over with 1GB traffic while Cisco L3 3750s don't even > breathe hard at 10Gbps. I see no reason to use anything like 2500w even > with Cisco gear. A dual Cisco 3750 stack consumes maybe 500W. Cisco > firmware, for all its faults, seems to be much better tested than > Mikrotik's. > > I once asked Mikrotik's support engineers how they performed regression > testing, and they said "because we are a small, agile, disruptive innovator > we don't follow old-school testing regimens. We're more interested in > shipping affordable product." That's also their excuse for poor > documentation. > > From what I can see, "small, agile, disruptive innovator" is an excuse > newer networking companies often give for "sloppy, poorly tested, > ill-conceived" product development. > > > > -mel beckman > > > On Oct 2, 2015, at 11:44 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: > > > > Chances are the revenue passing scales to some degree as well. Small > business with small bandwidth needs buys small and has small revenue. Big > business with big bandwidth needs buys big and has big revenue to support > big router. > > > > I can think of no reason why ten years goes by and you haven't had a > need to throw out the old network for new. If your business hasn't scaled > with the times, then you need to get rid of your Cat 6500 and get something > more power, space, heat, etc. efficient. > > > > > > I saw someone replace a stack of Mikrotik CCRs with a pair of old Cisco > routers. I don't know what they were at the moment, but they had GBICs, so > they weren't exactly new. Each router had two 2500w power supplies. They'll > be worse in every way (other than *possibly* BGP convergence). The old > setup consumed at most 300 watts. The new setup requires $500/month in > power... and is worse. > > > > Stop using old shit. > > > > > > > > > > ----- > > Mike Hammett > > Intelligent Computing Solutions > > http://www.ics-il.com > > > > > > > > Midwest Internet Exchange > > http://www.midwest-ix.com > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "William Herrin" > > To: "Mike Hammett" > > Cc: "NANOG" > > Sent: Friday, October 2, 2015 1:09:16 PM > > Subject: Re: /27 the new /24 > > > >> On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 11:50 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: > >> How many routers out there have this limitation? A $100 router > >> I bought ten years ago could manage many full tables. If > >> someone's network can't match that today, should I really have > >> any pity for them? > > > > Hi Mike, > > > > The technology doesn't work the way you think it does. Or more > > precisely, it only works the way you think it does on small (cheap) > > end-user routers. Those routers do everything in software on a > > general-purpose CPU using radix tries for the forwarding table (FIB). > > They don't have to (and can't) handle both high data rates and large > > routing tables at the same time. > > > > For a better understanding how the big iron works, check out > > https://www.pagiamtzis.com/cam/camintro/ . You'll occasionally see > > folks here talk about TCAM. This stands for Ternary Content > > Addressable Memory. It's a special circuit, different from DRAM and > > SRAM, used by most (but not all) big iron routers. The TCAM permits an > > O(1) route lookup instead of an O(log n) lookup. The architectural > > differences which balloon from there move the router cost from your > > $100 router into the hundreds of thousands of dollars. > > > > Your BGP advertisement doesn't just have to be carried on your $100 > > router. It also has to be carried on the half-million-dollar routers. > > That makes it expensive. > > > > Though out of date, this paper should help you better understand the > > systemic cost of a BGP route advertisement: > > http://bill.herrin.us/network/bgpcost.html > > > > Regards, > > Bill Herrin > > > > > > > > > > -- > > William Herrin ................ herrin at dirtside.com bill at herrin.us > > Owner, Dirtside Systems ......... Web: > > > From josh at imaginenetworksllc.com Fri Oct 2 19:29:09 2015 From: josh at imaginenetworksllc.com (Josh Luthman) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 15:29:09 -0400 Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: <5280b516a2fc4179a92583c656455616@anx-i-dag02.anx.local> References: <8965468.2594.1443811120487.JavaMail.mhammett@ThunderFuck> <5280b516a2fc4179a92583c656455616@anx-i-dag02.anx.local> Message-ID: Unfounded claim and a personal attack... Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 3:25 PM, J?rgen Jaritsch wrote: > > Stop using old shit. > > Sorry, but the truth is: you have no idea about how earning revenue works > and you obviously also have no idea about carrier grade networks. > > > > > J?rgen Jaritsch > Head of Network & Infrastructure > > ANEXIA Internetdienstleistungs GmbH > > Telefon: +43-5-0556-300 > Telefax: +43-5-0556-500 > > E-Mail: JJaritsch at anexia-it.com > Web: http://www.anexia-it.com > > Anschrift Hauptsitz Klagenfurt: Feldkirchnerstra?e 140, 9020 Klagenfurt > Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Alexander Windbichler > Firmenbuch: FN 289918a | Gerichtsstand: Klagenfurt | UID-Nummer: AT > U63216601 > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces at nanog.org] Im Auftrag von Mike Hammett > Gesendet: Freitag, 02. Oktober 2015 20:38 > An: NANOG > Betreff: Re: /27 the new /24 > > Chances are the revenue passing scales to some degree as well. Small > business with small bandwidth needs buys small and has small revenue. Big > business with big bandwidth needs buys big and has big revenue to support > big router. > > I can think of no reason why ten years goes by and you haven't had a need > to throw out the old network for new. If your business hasn't scaled with > the times, then you need to get rid of your Cat 6500 and get something more > power, space, heat, etc. efficient. > > > I saw someone replace a stack of Mikrotik CCRs with a pair of old Cisco > routers. I don't know what they were at the moment, but they had GBICs, so > they weren't exactly new. Each router had two 2500w power supplies. They'll > be worse in every way (other than *possibly* BGP convergence). The old > setup consumed at most 300 watts. The new setup requires $500/month in > power... and is worse. > > Stop using old shit. > > > > > ----- > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions > http://www.ics-il.com > > > > Midwest Internet Exchange > http://www.midwest-ix.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "William Herrin" > To: "Mike Hammett" > Cc: "NANOG" > Sent: Friday, October 2, 2015 1:09:16 PM > Subject: Re: /27 the new /24 > > On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 11:50 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: > > How many routers out there have this limitation? A $100 router > > I bought ten years ago could manage many full tables. If > > someone's network can't match that today, should I really have > > any pity for them? > > Hi Mike, > > The technology doesn't work the way you think it does. Or more > precisely, it only works the way you think it does on small (cheap) > end-user routers. Those routers do everything in software on a > general-purpose CPU using radix tries for the forwarding table (FIB). > They don't have to (and can't) handle both high data rates and large > routing tables at the same time. > > For a better understanding how the big iron works, check out > https://www.pagiamtzis.com/cam/camintro/ . You'll occasionally see > folks here talk about TCAM. This stands for Ternary Content > Addressable Memory. It's a special circuit, different from DRAM and > SRAM, used by most (but not all) big iron routers. The TCAM permits an > O(1) route lookup instead of an O(log n) lookup. The architectural > differences which balloon from there move the router cost from your > $100 router into the hundreds of thousands of dollars. > > Your BGP advertisement doesn't just have to be carried on your $100 > router. It also has to be carried on the half-million-dollar routers. > That makes it expensive. > > Though out of date, this paper should help you better understand the > systemic cost of a BGP route advertisement: > http://bill.herrin.us/network/bgpcost.html > > Regards, > Bill Herrin > > > > > -- > William Herrin ................ herrin at dirtside.com bill at herrin.us > Owner, Dirtside Systems ......... Web: > > From nanog at ics-il.net Fri Oct 2 19:31:59 2015 From: nanog at ics-il.net (Mike Hammett) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 14:31:59 -0500 (CDT) Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: <26A786C1-0C58-4B19-9F68-4CFDADBC59A3@beckman.org> Message-ID: <92832779.2808.1443814361026.JavaMail.mhammett@ThunderFuck> >From a Slack chat I'm in with a few other Mikrotik guys (one of whom seems to have a direct line to get feature requests done) : "Something has changed at Mikrotik. It's like they want to be great again." ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mel Beckman" To: "Mike Hammett" Cc: "NANOG" Sent: Friday, October 2, 2015 2:22:29 PM Subject: Re: /27 the new /24 Often I find that used Cisco gear is more reliable and just as affordable than newer gear with that tasty, flakey crust. I've had a terrible time with CCRs falling over with 1GB traffic while Cisco L3 3750s don't even breathe hard at 10Gbps. I see no reason to use anything like 2500w even with Cisco gear. A dual Cisco 3750 stack consumes maybe 500W. Cisco firmware, for all its faults, seems to be much better tested than Mikrotik's. I once asked Mikrotik's support engineers how they performed regression testing, and they said "because we are a small, agile, disruptive innovator we don't follow old-school testing regimens. We're more interested in shipping affordable product." That's also their excuse for poor documentation. >From what I can see, "small, agile, disruptive innovator" is an excuse newer networking companies often give for "sloppy, poorly tested, ill-conceived" product development. -mel beckman > On Oct 2, 2015, at 11:44 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: > > Chances are the revenue passing scales to some degree as well. Small business with small bandwidth needs buys small and has small revenue. Big business with big bandwidth needs buys big and has big revenue to support big router. > > I can think of no reason why ten years goes by and you haven't had a need to throw out the old network for new. If your business hasn't scaled with the times, then you need to get rid of your Cat 6500 and get something more power, space, heat, etc. efficient. > > > I saw someone replace a stack of Mikrotik CCRs with a pair of old Cisco routers. I don't know what they were at the moment, but they had GBICs, so they weren't exactly new. Each router had two 2500w power supplies. They'll be worse in every way (other than *possibly* BGP convergence). The old setup consumed at most 300 watts. The new setup requires $500/month in power... and is worse. > > Stop using old shit. > > > > > ----- > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions > http://www.ics-il.com > > > > Midwest Internet Exchange > http://www.midwest-ix.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "William Herrin" > To: "Mike Hammett" > Cc: "NANOG" > Sent: Friday, October 2, 2015 1:09:16 PM > Subject: Re: /27 the new /24 > >> On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 11:50 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: >> How many routers out there have this limitation? A $100 router >> I bought ten years ago could manage many full tables. If >> someone's network can't match that today, should I really have >> any pity for them? > > Hi Mike, > > The technology doesn't work the way you think it does. Or more > precisely, it only works the way you think it does on small (cheap) > end-user routers. Those routers do everything in software on a > general-purpose CPU using radix tries for the forwarding table (FIB). > They don't have to (and can't) handle both high data rates and large > routing tables at the same time. > > For a better understanding how the big iron works, check out > https://www.pagiamtzis.com/cam/camintro/ . You'll occasionally see > folks here talk about TCAM. This stands for Ternary Content > Addressable Memory. It's a special circuit, different from DRAM and > SRAM, used by most (but not all) big iron routers. The TCAM permits an > O(1) route lookup instead of an O(log n) lookup. The architectural > differences which balloon from there move the router cost from your > $100 router into the hundreds of thousands of dollars. > > Your BGP advertisement doesn't just have to be carried on your $100 > router. It also has to be carried on the half-million-dollar routers. > That makes it expensive. > > Though out of date, this paper should help you better understand the > systemic cost of a BGP route advertisement: > http://bill.herrin.us/network/bgpcost.html > > Regards, > Bill Herrin > > > > > -- > William Herrin ................ herrin at dirtside.com bill at herrin.us > Owner, Dirtside Systems ......... Web: > From nanog at ics-il.net Fri Oct 2 19:33:24 2015 From: nanog at ics-il.net (Mike Hammett) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 14:33:24 -0500 (CDT) Subject: AW: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: <5280b516a2fc4179a92583c656455616@anx-i-dag02.anx.local> Message-ID: <1516233395.2818.1443814446880.JavaMail.mhammett@ThunderFuck> Hrm. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "J?rgen Jaritsch" To: "Mike Hammett" , "NANOG" Sent: Friday, October 2, 2015 2:25:10 PM Subject: AW: /27 the new /24 > Stop using old shit. Sorry, but the truth is: you have no idea about how earning revenue works and you obviously also have no idea about carrier grade networks. J?rgen Jaritsch Head of Network & Infrastructure ANEXIA Internetdienstleistungs GmbH Telefon: +43-5-0556-300 Telefax: +43-5-0556-500 E-Mail: JJaritsch at anexia-it.com Web: http://www.anexia-it.com Anschrift Hauptsitz Klagenfurt: Feldkirchnerstra?e 140, 9020 Klagenfurt Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Alexander Windbichler Firmenbuch: FN 289918a | Gerichtsstand: Klagenfurt | UID-Nummer: AT U63216601 -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces at nanog.org] Im Auftrag von Mike Hammett Gesendet: Freitag, 02. Oktober 2015 20:38 An: NANOG Betreff: Re: /27 the new /24 Chances are the revenue passing scales to some degree as well. Small business with small bandwidth needs buys small and has small revenue. Big business with big bandwidth needs buys big and has big revenue to support big router. I can think of no reason why ten years goes by and you haven't had a need to throw out the old network for new. If your business hasn't scaled with the times, then you need to get rid of your Cat 6500 and get something more power, space, heat, etc. efficient. I saw someone replace a stack of Mikrotik CCRs with a pair of old Cisco routers. I don't know what they were at the moment, but they had GBICs, so they weren't exactly new. Each router had two 2500w power supplies. They'll be worse in every way (other than *possibly* BGP convergence). The old setup consumed at most 300 watts. The new setup requires $500/month in power... and is worse. Stop using old shit. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Herrin" To: "Mike Hammett" Cc: "NANOG" Sent: Friday, October 2, 2015 1:09:16 PM Subject: Re: /27 the new /24 On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 11:50 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: > How many routers out there have this limitation? A $100 router > I bought ten years ago could manage many full tables. If > someone's network can't match that today, should I really have > any pity for them? Hi Mike, The technology doesn't work the way you think it does. Or more precisely, it only works the way you think it does on small (cheap) end-user routers. Those routers do everything in software on a general-purpose CPU using radix tries for the forwarding table (FIB). They don't have to (and can't) handle both high data rates and large routing tables at the same time. For a better understanding how the big iron works, check out https://www.pagiamtzis.com/cam/camintro/ . You'll occasionally see folks here talk about TCAM. This stands for Ternary Content Addressable Memory. It's a special circuit, different from DRAM and SRAM, used by most (but not all) big iron routers. The TCAM permits an O(1) route lookup instead of an O(log n) lookup. The architectural differences which balloon from there move the router cost from your $100 router into the hundreds of thousands of dollars. Your BGP advertisement doesn't just have to be carried on your $100 router. It also has to be carried on the half-million-dollar routers. That makes it expensive. Though out of date, this paper should help you better understand the systemic cost of a BGP route advertisement: http://bill.herrin.us/network/bgpcost.html Regards, Bill Herrin -- William Herrin ................ herrin at dirtside.com bill at herrin.us Owner, Dirtside Systems ......... Web: From streiner at cluebyfour.org Fri Oct 2 20:05:49 2015 From: streiner at cluebyfour.org (Justin M. Streiner) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 16:05:49 -0400 (EDT) Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: <20151002164203.GC3097@excession.tpb.net> References: <80BBB162-5EB8-49F9-AF94-98D8B4C25DCB@mtin.net> <560EB1EE.9080900@ninjabadger.net> <20151002164203.GC3097@excession.tpb.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 2 Oct 2015, Niels Bakker wrote: > * tom at ninjabadger.net (Tom Hill) [Fri 02 Oct 2015, 18:34 CEST]: >> Any RIR - or LIR - that considers allocating space in sizes smaller than a >> /24 (for the purpose of announcing to the DFZ) would do well to read this >> report from RIPE Labs: >> >> https://labs.ripe.net/Members/emileaben/has-the-routability-of-longer-than-24-prefixes-changed >> >> tl;dr: it's still a bad idea to allocate smaller than a /24. > > RIPE has long allocated up to /29. Not everybody needs addresses for the > Internet; some just need a guarantee of global uniqueness. Right, but the OP's question seems to be pointed much more toward global reachability, not just global uniqueness. jms From wesley.george at twcable.com Fri Oct 2 20:33:19 2015 From: wesley.george at twcable.com (George, Wes) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 20:33:19 +0000 Subject: How to force rapid ipv6 adoption In-Reply-To: References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560D9DD0.2030904@Janoszka.pl> <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE@delong.com> <20151001222813.B9469391102B@rock.dv.isc.org> <20151001232613.GD123100@rootmail.cc.le.ac.uk> <20151002000125.9CD573911EF5@rock.dv.isc.org> Message-ID: From: Cryptographrix > Date: Friday, October 2, 2015 at 12:35 PM To: "George, Wes" > Cc: "nanog at nanog.org" > Subject: Re: How to force rapid ipv6 adoption Unfortunately, the files at the NANOG links you posted are not available, but I think I get the premise of them from their summaries and what you're trying to say - thank you for linking. WG] hmm, hopefully someone reading from NANOG will unbork the URLs. If nothing else, they post the presentation videos to their youtube channel, so you can find it there by going directly. It makes me curious about the churn rate between ISPs, but that's a different topic and everything you've said is spot on.\ WG] in this context I was talking about churn within the ISP rather than between them, and it probably would have been more accurate to talk in terms of net customer growth ? how many customers do you lose vs how many new ones you add? What seems really important/would be progressive at the moment is that vendors release IPv6-capable "plug and play" gear. WG] and that's a mixed bag. Many routers, all computers, smartphones, tablets, etc are plug and play for IPv6, but the IoT widgetry, video streaming devices, etc have a ways to go yet. Lots of folks like me pulling every lever we can find to make sure our vendors and partners in CPE and content land understand that IPv6 is a requirement, but it's little by little and progress is slow. Is there any vendor that's currently working on a home router that provides *only* IPv6 internally, with NAT64 IPv6->IPv4? WG] well, TMobile has a considerable amount of IPv6-only Android devices on their mobile network using 464xlat as the shim. On the home router side, there are devices that are capable of terminating an IPv6 in IPv4 tunnel to allow people to hop over their ISP that isn't supporting IPv6 and dual stack their home. Lots of us use this method + a tunnel provider like HE to have IPv6 at home, but that's becoming less important as Comcast and TWC and other broadband providers enable IPv6 for real across their networks. There are also devices that can do DSLite so that it's IPv6-only out of the house (encapsulate IPv4 in IPv6 to a remote NAT), but still supports dual-stack in the house. The number of devices in the average house that don't support IPv6 makes IPv6-only in the house problematic and a much longer-term goal. If we wanted to really get this started, that (and a bunch of articles about "use this router to get IPv6 in your house") sounds like it could be really productive. WG] Generally my philosophy has been that customers just want their internet service to work, not know anything about which IP stack they're using, and thus IPv6 isn't a value-added feature that you can sell to the average folks buying a cheap plastic router off of Amazon. Now that we're seeing evidence that IPv6 is faster, there's a potential marketing angle for gamers (better network performance!!!) but we're still building the case for that, and tunnels tend to negate those sorts of benefits (you need native IPv6) so that's probably premature. Additionally, is it possible for ISPs to offer IPv6 transit-exclusive plans for people that would like to get just that? WG] I think that day is coming, but not yet. There has to be a critical mass of common/important IPv6-enabled content and devices, and the problem is that most of the folks who know enough about networking to know that they only need IPv6 probably still need IPv4 (see also previous comment). But if someone only uses their internet connection for webmail (G or Y!) and Facebook and maybe a little Youtube with a small subset of devices, it's workable today, and it keeps getting more workable, either with or without an IPv4 shim like 464Xlat or NAT64/DNS64. It's really a question of when you get far enough along to be confident that it's reliable enough for average customers (for some value of "average") without making the phone ring. Thanks, Wes Anything below this line has been added by my company?s mail server, I have no control over it. ----------- ________________________________ This E-mail and any of its attachments may contain Time Warner Cable proprietary information, which is privileged, confidential, or subject to copyright belonging to Time Warner Cable. This E-mail is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient of this E-mail, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying, or action taken in relation to the contents of and attachments to this E-mail is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this E-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and permanently delete the original and any copy of this E-mail and any printout. From toddunder at gmail.com Fri Oct 2 20:45:10 2015 From: toddunder at gmail.com (Todd Underwood) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 16:45:10 -0400 Subject: How to force rapid ipv6 adoption In-Reply-To: <9591EA37-1A36-42AF-B5DC-E9FA737D6CE2@delong.com> References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560D9DD0.2030904@Janoszka.pl> <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE@delong.com> <20151001222813.B9469391102B@rock.dv.isc.org> <20151001232613.GD123100@rootmail.cc.le.ac.uk> <55A3A845-751A-4F21-BC6E-8549DD7BEFCB@delong.com> <9FB08507-F739-40CA-AA98-6D35B61F7C95@delong.com> <9591EA37-1A36-42AF-B5DC-E9FA737D6CE2@delong.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 2:07 PM, Owen DeLong wrote: > > None of them does what you propose ? Smooth seamless communication between > an IPv4-only host and an IPv6-only host. i view this point/question as an assertion by owen as follows: "it was never possible to design a smooth transition and that's why we gave up on it." furthermore, it's a also the following assertion: "it was never possible to expand our address space while allowing for an actual migration." if you believe that, then you end up in advocacy land. if you don't believe that but you see lots of people who gave up on the design process early, then you understand why we're here. v6 was designed without a migration plan and it wasn't believed to be important, or possibly wasn't believed to be possible. but there was never any pressure to use v6 because v4 worked well and we had plenty of addresses. we still have plenty of addresses and although they're no longer ~free from quasi-governmental organizations they're way cheaper than the cost to implement v6. so we're still going to use v4 ~forever. > > So, please, Todd, explicate exactly how you would achieve that stated > objective? What could you do differently on the IPv6-only host side that > would allow smooth seamless connectivity to/from the IPv4 host while still > providing a larger address space? it sounds like you're interested in having the engineering conversation that should have been had ~15 years ago. me, too 15 years ago. sigh. i know owen is now just trolling because he's threatened by the idea that there might be something wrong with ipv6, but the reality is that none of this was necessary. ipv6 might have been done differently with a different header format and different choices around migration. routing could have been done differently to try to preserve end-to-end but still splitting locators and identifiers (which i know that dave meyer thinks might not be possible but i'm still more sanguine about). we could have explicitly made smooth migration an engineering requirement just as much as "more addresses" were. we didn't. that's fine. so we got a disconnected network that some things can talk to and others can't. and we put the full burden all the way to every edge. and now we have conversations about how to upgrade home cpe everywhere. it's tedious and boring and dumb but it's the direct result of every decision we made and how we prioritized things. so, for clarity, this "how do you magically enable smooth migration now that we didn't prioritize it in the protocol design" question is a bogus red herring. the answer is: "you prioritize it in the protocol design". i assume smart people can see that. owen: i understand you like v6 and that it's important to you. that doesn't mean it's perfect and it doesn't mean we couldn't have done better. stop being so hostile and so threatened and try to listen a bit. or don't. whatever works for you. cheers! t > > In any case I'm giving up on that conversation. And this whole one. It goes > nowhere. > > And this is why v6 is where it is: true believers. Instead of a simple, > practical matter of engineering a transition we got 15 years of advocacy. > > If it?s so simple, why do you continue to refuse to explain the process? > > Owen > > From hugo at slabnet.com Fri Oct 2 20:51:42 2015 From: hugo at slabnet.com (Hugo Slabbert) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 13:51:42 -0700 Subject: How to force rapid ipv6 adoption In-Reply-To: <1cffd0.kqhkiG.15029700be0@slabnet.com> References: <560D9DD0.2030904@Janoszka.pl> <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE@delong.com> <20151001222813.B9469391102B@rock.dv.isc.org> <20151001232613.GD123100@rootmail.cc.le.ac.uk> <20151002035400.GE21567@bamboo.slabnet.com> <1cffd0.kqhkiG.15029700be0@slabnet.com> Message-ID: <20151002205142.GF21567@bamboo.slabnet.com> On Fri 2015-Oct-02 09:43:40 -0700, Hugo Slabbert wrote: >My apologies; missed the anchor for some reason and just got the top bits of the doc. >-- >Hugo >hugo at slabnet.com: email, xmpp/jabber >also on TextSecure & RedPhone > >---- From: Damian Menscher -- Sent: 2015-10-02 - 08:45 ---- > >> On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 8:54 PM, Hugo Slabbert wrote: >> >>> On Thu 2015-Oct-01 18:28:52 -0700, Damian Menscher via NANOG < >>> nanog at nanog.org> wrote: >>> >>>> On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 4:26 PM, Matthew Newton >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> On Thu, Oct 01, 2015 at 10:42:57PM +0000, Todd Underwood wrote: >>>>> > it's just a new addressing protocol that happens to not work with the >>>>> rest >>>>> > of the internet. it's unfortunate that we made that mistake, but i >>>>> guess >>>>> > we're stuck with that now (i wish i could say something about lessons >>>>> > learned but i don't think any one of us has learned a lesson yet). >>>>> >>>>> Would be really interesting to know how you would propose >>>>> squeezing 128 bits of address data into a 32 bit field so that we >>>>> could all continue to use IPv4 with more addresses than it's has >>>>> available to save having to move to this new incompatible format. >>>>> >>>> >>>> I solved that problem a few years ago (well, kinda -- only for backend >>>> logging, not for routing): >>>> >>>> http://docs.guava-libraries.googlecode.com/git/javadoc/com/google/common/net/InetAddresses.html#getCoercedIPv4Address(java.net.InetAddress) >>>> >>> >>> Squeezing 32 bits into 128 bits is easy. Let me know how you do with >>> squeezing 128 bits into 32 bits... >>> >> >> I did just fine, thanks. (You may want to read the link again.... ;) Out of curiosity, the method you describe is lossy, though, no? It is basically just intended to ensure that we don't break the database or application when we write an IPv6 address into it because it can only handle an IPv4 value. I appreciate the hack & know you have a disclaimer on there of "only for logging, not routing," but "squeezing 128 bits of address data into a 32 bit field" is a bit of a stretch to describe a process that takes 128 bits, discards 64 of them, and then hashes the remaining 64 bits into 29 bits, no? >> >> Damian > -- Hugo -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From fred at cisco.com Fri Oct 2 21:03:44 2015 From: fred at cisco.com (Fred Baker (fred)) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 21:03:44 +0000 Subject: How to force rapid ipv6 adoption In-Reply-To: References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560D9DD0.2030904@Janoszka.pl> <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE@delong.com> <20151001222813.B9469391102B@rock.dv.isc.org> Message-ID: <9C65752A-9721-483F-8655-6EF036C2D2A4@cisco.com> > On Oct 1, 2015, at 3:42 PM, Todd Underwood wrote: > > it's just a new addressing protocol that happens to not work with the rest > of the internet. it's unfortunate that we made that mistake I understand the comment, but I see some issues with it. The problem isn't that IPv6 isn't backward-compatible, or that the changes to the Socket Library aren't backward compatible (the socket interface being the reason we have to upgrade applications, and btw getaddrinfo *is* backward-compatible), it's that the old stuff (IPv4, gethostbyname) aren't forward compatible. If we had deployed a new protocol that allowed us to use IPv4 addresses as well as the new format (which, BTW, we did), it would still be a new protocol that had to be deployed and enabled. There's no way to change the IPv4 address to be larger, or to get gethostbyname to return a non-IPv4 address. Had there been an easy way to expand an IPv4 address to a larger number of bytes, we wouldn't have needed to replace IPv4. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 833 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: From bill at herrin.us Fri Oct 2 21:18:15 2015 From: bill at herrin.us (William Herrin) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 17:18:15 -0400 Subject: How to force rapid ipv6 adoption In-Reply-To: <9C65752A-9721-483F-8655-6EF036C2D2A4@cisco.com> References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560D9DD0.2030904@Janoszka.pl> <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE@delong.com> <20151001222813.B9469391102B@rock.dv.isc.org> <9C65752A-9721-483F-8655-6EF036C2D2A4@cisco.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 5:03 PM, Fred Baker (fred) wrote: > There's no way to change the IPv4 address to be larger http://bill.herrin.us/network/ipxl.html There's always a way. Regards, Bill Herrin -- William Herrin ................ herrin at dirtside.com bill at herrin.us Owner, Dirtside Systems ......... Web: From voytek at trustdarkness.com Fri Oct 2 18:01:32 2015 From: voytek at trustdarkness.com (voytek) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 13:01:32 -0500 Subject: Question re session hijacking in dual stack environments w/MacOS In-Reply-To: <20151002115843.GA58940@geeks.org> References: <560A3C8F.4060306@seacom.mu> <20151002054647.GA57805@geeks.org> <132752.1443772000@turing-police.cc.vt.edu> <20151002115843.GA58940@geeks.org> Message-ID: <20151002130132.10902166@praxis> On Fri, 2 Oct 2015 06:58:43 -0500 Doug McIntyre wrote: > On Fri, Oct 02, 2015 at 03:46:40AM -0400, Valdis.Kletnieks at vt.edu > wrote: > > On Fri, 02 Oct 2015 00:46:47 -0500, Doug McIntyre said: > > > > > I suspect this is OSX implementing IPv6 Privacy Extensions. Where > > > OSX generates a new random IPv6 address, applies it to the > > > interface, and then drops the old IPv6 addresses as they stale > > > out. Sessions in use or not. > > > > Isn't the OS supposed to wait for the last user of the old address > > to close their socket before dropping it? > > In my experience, no, it doesn't. Ie. the main reason I disable it is > because my ssh sessions hung after some period of time, so ssh had > sockets open, but yet the IPv6 addresses kept rotating out. > Disabling it definately made the ssh sessions stable on OSX. > > Apple codes to the masses. Average web browser user or mail client > won't care, that is all they test against. Not people that leave ssh > sessions open for days to weeks at a time. > Since no one else has mentioned it yet, mosh is another solution to this for ssh: https://mosh.mit.edu/ > > > > > > > > > From parkerj17 at gmail.com Fri Oct 2 20:12:07 2015 From: parkerj17 at gmail.com (Justin Parker) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 16:12:07 -0400 Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: References: <80BBB162-5EB8-49F9-AF94-98D8B4C25DCB@mtin.net> <560EB1EE.9080900@ninjabadger.net> <20151002164203.GC3097@excession.tpb.net> Message-ID: You guys really don't need to argue on list. There are a lot of people subscribed here and I don't feel as if anything constructive is being accomplished. On Oct 2, 2015 4:07 PM, "Justin M. Streiner" wrote: > On Fri, 2 Oct 2015, Niels Bakker wrote: > > * tom at ninjabadger.net (Tom Hill) [Fri 02 Oct 2015, 18:34 CEST]: >> >>> Any RIR - or LIR - that considers allocating space in sizes smaller than >>> a /24 (for the purpose of announcing to the DFZ) would do well to read this >>> report from RIPE Labs: >>> >>> >>> https://labs.ripe.net/Members/emileaben/has-the-routability-of-longer-than-24-prefixes-changed >>> >>> tl;dr: it's still a bad idea to allocate smaller than a /24. >>> >> >> RIPE has long allocated up to /29. Not everybody needs addresses for the >> Internet; some just need a guarantee of global uniqueness. >> > > Right, but the OP's question seems to be pointed much more toward global > reachability, not just global uniqueness. > > jms > From toddunder at gmail.com Fri Oct 2 21:20:19 2015 From: toddunder at gmail.com (Todd Underwood) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 17:20:19 -0400 Subject: How to force rapid ipv6 adoption In-Reply-To: References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560D9DD0.2030904@Janoszka.pl> <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE@delong.com> <20151001222813.B9469391102B@rock.dv.isc.org> <9C65752A-9721-483F-8655-6EF036C2D2A4@cisco.com> Message-ID: that's crazy. why would you want a simple way to boostrap more addresses from what we have now? you'll never make yourself into an internationally known ipvNEXT advocate with engineering like that. more advocacy. less engineering! t On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 5:18 PM, William Herrin wrote: > On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 5:03 PM, Fred Baker (fred) wrote: >> There's no way to change the IPv4 address to be larger > > http://bill.herrin.us/network/ipxl.html > > There's always a way. > > Regards, > Bill Herrin > > > > -- > William Herrin ................ herrin at dirtside.com bill at herrin.us > Owner, Dirtside Systems ......... Web: From fred at cisco.com Fri Oct 2 21:44:33 2015 From: fred at cisco.com (Fred Baker (fred)) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 21:44:33 +0000 Subject: How to force rapid ipv6 adoption In-Reply-To: References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560D9DD0.2030904@Janoszka.pl> <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE@delong.com> <20151001222813.B9469391102B@rock.dv.isc.org> <9C65752A-9721-483F-8655-6EF036C2D2A4@cisco.com> Message-ID: <0C4DE404-41D9-43C6-8F26-494EFD662F7C@cisco.com> > On Oct 2, 2015, at 2:18 PM, William Herrin wrote: > > On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 5:03 PM, Fred Baker (fred) wrote: >> There's no way to change the IPv4 address to be larger > > http://bill.herrin.us/network/ipxl.html > > There's always a way. > > Regards, > Bill Herrin We could discuss IPv8 and IPv16... The question I would ask about your model is how one determines whether one is looking at a 32 or 64 bit destination address. Does one, for example, have to parse the options field before making that determination? How does that work in a router that drops an IPv4 header that is not 20 bytes in length? There were a number of options kicked around that, in one way or another, reused packet fields (what is we assume that fragmentation doesn't ever happen?) or inserted options. Right, wrong, or indifferent, it wasn't that it wasn't considered, it was that it wasn't chosen. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 833 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: From cidr-report at potaroo.net Fri Oct 2 22:00:00 2015 From: cidr-report at potaroo.net (cidr-report at potaroo.net) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 22:00:00 GMT Subject: The Cidr Report Message-ID: <201510022200.t92M00BP080763@wattle.apnic.net> This report has been generated at Fri Oct 2 21:14:51 2015 AEST. The report analyses the BGP Routing Table of AS2.0 router and generates a report on aggregation potential within the table. Check http://www.cidr-report.org/2.0 for a current version of this report. Recent Table History Date Prefixes CIDR Agg 25-09-15 572863 311292 26-09-15 573021 311795 27-09-15 573336 311530 28-09-15 573253 311624 29-09-15 573352 311897 30-09-15 573520 312308 01-10-15 574116 312199 02-10-15 574326 312011 AS Summary 51892 Number of ASes in routing system 20564 Number of ASes announcing only one prefix 5608 Largest number of prefixes announced by an AS AS4538 : ERX-CERNET-BKB China Education and Research Network Center,CN 121035520 Largest address span announced by an AS (/32s) AS4134 : CHINANET-BACKBONE No.31,Jin-rong Street,CN Aggregation Summary The algorithm used in this report proposes aggregation only when there is a precise match using the AS path, so as to preserve traffic transit policies. Aggregation is also proposed across non-advertised address space ('holes'). --- 02Oct15 --- ASnum NetsNow NetsAggr NetGain % Gain Description Table 573946 312008 261938 45.6% All ASes AS22773 3193 174 3019 94.6% ASN-CXA-ALL-CCI-22773-RDC - Cox Communications Inc.,US AS4538 5608 2809 2799 49.9% ERX-CERNET-BKB China Education and Research Network Center,CN AS17974 2710 90 2620 96.7% TELKOMNET-AS2-AP PT Telekomunikasi Indonesia,ID AS39891 2474 21 2453 99.2% ALJAWWALSTC-AS Saudi Telecom Company JSC,SA AS7545 2958 646 2312 78.2% TPG-INTERNET-AP TPG Telecom Limited,AU AS6389 2686 478 2208 82.2% BELLSOUTH-NET-BLK - BellSouth.net Inc.,US AS9394 2100 206 1894 90.2% CTTNET China TieTong Telecommunications Corporation,CN AS28573 2109 301 1808 85.7% NET Servi?os de Comunica??o S.A.,BR AS3356 2520 764 1756 69.7% LEVEL3 - Level 3 Communications, Inc.,US AS4766 3013 1277 1736 57.6% KIXS-AS-KR Korea Telecom,KR AS9808 1618 92 1526 94.3% CMNET-GD Guangdong Mobile Communication Co.Ltd.,CN AS6983 1738 244 1494 86.0% ITCDELTA - Earthlink, Inc.,US AS4755 2049 567 1482 72.3% TATACOMM-AS TATA Communications formerly VSNL is Leading ISP,IN AS20115 1889 408 1481 78.4% CHARTER-NET-HKY-NC - Charter Communications,US AS10620 3394 1998 1396 41.1% Telmex Colombia S.A.,CO AS9498 1391 118 1273 91.5% BBIL-AP BHARTI Airtel Ltd.,IN AS4323 1590 407 1183 74.4% TWTC - tw telecom holdings, inc.,US AS38285 1170 18 1152 98.5% M2TELECOMMUNICATIONS-AU M2 Telecommunications Group Ltd,AU AS18566 2176 1027 1149 52.8% MEGAPATH5-US - MegaPath Corporation,US AS7552 1441 341 1100 76.3% VIETEL-AS-AP Viettel Corporation,VN AS22561 1279 219 1060 82.9% CENTURYLINK-LEGACY-LIGHTCORE - CenturyTel Internet Holdings, Inc.,US AS8402 1079 21 1058 98.1% CORBINA-AS OJSC "Vimpelcom",RU AS4812 1575 526 1049 66.6% CHINANET-SH-AP China Telecom (Group),CN AS7303 1572 524 1048 66.7% Telecom Argentina S.A.,AR AS4808 1540 521 1019 66.2% CHINA169-BJ CNCGROUP IP network China169 Beijing Province Network,CN AS38197 1460 467 993 68.0% SUNHK-DATA-AS-AP Sun Network (Hong Kong) Limited,HK AS4788 1354 406 948 70.0% TMNET-AS-AP TM Net, Internet Service Provider,MY AS8151 1798 858 940 52.3% Uninet S.A. de C.V.,MX AS6849 1206 269 937 77.7% UKRTELNET JSC UKRTELECOM,UA AS7738 997 79 918 92.1% Telemar Norte Leste S.A.,BR Total 61687 15876 45811 74.3% Top 30 total Possible Bogus Routes 23.226.112.0/20 AS62788 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 23.249.144.0/20 AS40430 COLO4JAX-AS - colo4jax, LLC,US 23.249.144.0/21 AS40430 COLO4JAX-AS - colo4jax, LLC,US 23.249.152.0/21 AS40430 COLO4JAX-AS - colo4jax, LLC,US 27.50.8.0/24 AS55548 27.50.9.0/24 AS55548 27.50.10.0/24 AS55548 27.50.11.0/24 AS55548 27.100.7.0/24 AS56096 31.217.248.0/21 AS44902 COV-ASN COVAGE NETWORKS SASU,FR 41.73.1.0/24 AS37004 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 41.73.2.0/24 AS37004 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 41.73.3.0/24 AS37004 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 41.73.4.0/24 AS37004 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 41.73.5.0/24 AS37004 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 41.73.6.0/24 AS37004 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 41.73.7.0/24 AS37004 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 41.73.8.0/24 AS37004 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 41.73.9.0/24 AS37004 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 41.73.10.0/24 AS37004 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 41.73.11.0/24 AS37004 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 41.73.12.0/24 AS37004 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 41.73.13.0/24 AS37004 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 41.73.14.0/24 AS37004 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 41.73.15.0/24 AS37004 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 41.73.16.0/24 AS37004 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 41.73.17.0/24 AS37004 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 41.73.18.0/24 AS37004 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 41.73.20.0/24 AS37004 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 41.73.21.0/24 AS37004 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 41.78.180.0/23 AS37265 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 41.189.96.0/20 AS37000 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 41.189.126.0/24 AS16422 NEWSKIES-NETWORKS - New Skies Satellites, Inc.,US 41.189.127.0/24 AS37000 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 41.189.128.0/24 AS37000 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 41.191.108.0/24 AS37004 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 41.191.109.0/24 AS37004 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 41.191.110.0/24 AS37004 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 41.191.111.0/24 AS37004 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 41.223.208.0/22 AS37000 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 64.28.145.0/24 AS4323 TWTC - tw telecom holdings, inc.,US 64.28.146.0/24 AS4323 TWTC - tw telecom holdings, inc.,US 64.234.239.0/24 AS55480 ISERVICES-HK I-Services Network Solution Ltd,HK 65.75.216.0/23 AS10494 AAI - Accurate Automation, Inc.,US 65.75.217.0/24 AS10494 AAI - Accurate Automation, Inc.,US 66.11.224.0/21 AS29873 BIZLAND-SD - The Endurance International Group, Inc.,US 66.11.234.0/24 AS29873 BIZLAND-SD - The Endurance International Group, Inc.,US 66.11.236.0/22 AS29873 BIZLAND-SD - The Endurance International Group, Inc.,US 66.59.192.0/19 AS17184 ATL-CBEYOND - CBEYOND COMMUNICATIONS, LLC,US 66.78.66.0/23 AS10835 VISIONARY - Visionary Communications, Inc.,US 66.78.68.0/22 AS10835 VISIONARY - Visionary Communications, Inc.,US 66.78.76.0/23 AS10835 VISIONARY - Visionary Communications, Inc.,US 66.78.80.0/21 AS10835 VISIONARY - Visionary Communications, Inc.,US 66.78.91.0/24 AS10835 VISIONARY - Visionary Communications, Inc.,US 66.180.64.0/21 AS32558 ZEUTER - Zeuter Development Corporation,CA 66.187.240.0/20 AS14552 ACS-SOUTHEASTDATACENTER - Affiliated Computer Services, Inc.,US 66.187.240.0/24 AS22753 REDHAT-0 - Red Hat, Inc.,US 66.205.224.0/19 AS16526 BIRCH-TELECOM - Birch Telecom, Inc.,US 66.228.160.0/20 AS7233 YAHOO-US - Yahoo,US 66.228.176.0/21 AS17110 YAHOO-US2 - Yahoo,US 66.251.128.0/24 AS33227 BLUEBRIDGE-NETWORKS - Blue Bridge Networks,US 66.251.133.0/24 AS33227 BLUEBRIDGE-NETWORKS - Blue Bridge Networks,US 66.251.134.0/24 AS33227 BLUEBRIDGE-NETWORKS - Blue Bridge Networks,US 66.251.136.0/21 AS33227 BLUEBRIDGE-NETWORKS - Blue Bridge Networks,US 66.251.140.0/24 AS33227 BLUEBRIDGE-NETWORKS - Blue Bridge Networks,US 66.251.141.0/24 AS33227 BLUEBRIDGE-NETWORKS - Blue Bridge Networks,US 66.251.142.0/24 AS33227 BLUEBRIDGE-NETWORKS - Blue Bridge Networks,US 68.234.0.0/19 AS40430 COLO4JAX-AS - colo4jax, LLC,US 68.234.0.0/20 AS40430 COLO4JAX-AS - colo4jax, LLC,US 68.234.5.0/24 AS40430 COLO4JAX-AS - colo4jax, LLC,US 68.234.7.0/24 AS40430 COLO4JAX-AS - colo4jax, LLC,US 68.234.16.0/20 AS40430 COLO4JAX-AS - colo4jax, LLC,US 68.234.16.0/24 AS40430 COLO4JAX-AS - colo4jax, LLC,US 68.234.17.0/24 AS40430 COLO4JAX-AS - colo4jax, LLC,US 68.234.18.0/24 AS40430 COLO4JAX-AS - colo4jax, LLC,US 68.234.19.0/24 AS40430 COLO4JAX-AS - colo4jax, LLC,US 68.234.20.0/24 AS40430 COLO4JAX-AS - colo4jax, LLC,US 68.234.21.0/24 AS40430 COLO4JAX-AS - colo4jax, LLC,US 68.234.22.0/24 AS40430 COLO4JAX-AS - colo4jax, LLC,US 68.234.23.0/24 AS40430 COLO4JAX-AS - colo4jax, LLC,US 68.234.24.0/22 AS40430 COLO4JAX-AS - colo4jax, LLC,US 68.234.26.0/24 AS40430 COLO4JAX-AS - colo4jax, LLC,US 68.234.28.0/24 AS40430 COLO4JAX-AS - colo4jax, LLC,US 68.234.29.0/24 AS40430 COLO4JAX-AS - colo4jax, LLC,US 69.24.96.0/20 AS26804 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 72.19.0.0/19 AS16526 BIRCH-TELECOM - Birch Telecom, Inc.,US 74.113.200.0/23 AS46939 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 74.114.52.0/22 AS40818 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 74.114.52.0/23 AS40818 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 74.114.52.0/24 AS40818 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 74.114.53.0/24 AS40818 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 74.114.54.0/23 AS40818 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 74.114.54.0/24 AS40818 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 74.114.55.0/24 AS40818 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 74.114.184.0/22 AS19888 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 74.123.136.0/21 AS53358 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 77.243.91.0/24 AS42597 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 80.78.133.0/24 AS16422 NEWSKIES-NETWORKS - New Skies Satellites, Inc.,US 80.78.134.0/23 AS16422 NEWSKIES-NETWORKS - New Skies Satellites, Inc.,US 80.78.134.0/24 AS16422 NEWSKIES-NETWORKS - New Skies Satellites, Inc.,US 80.78.135.0/24 AS16422 NEWSKIES-NETWORKS - New Skies Satellites, Inc.,US 91.103.8.0/24 AS42551 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 91.103.9.0/24 AS42551 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 91.103.10.0/24 AS42551 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 91.103.11.0/24 AS42551 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 91.193.60.0/22 AS3356 LEVEL3 - Level 3 Communications, Inc.,US 91.195.66.0/23 AS3356 LEVEL3 - Level 3 Communications, Inc.,US 91.197.36.0/22 AS43359 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 91.212.161.0/24 AS3356 LEVEL3 - Level 3 Communications, Inc.,US 91.213.220.0/24 AS19662 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 91.217.120.0/23 AS51563 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 98.143.160.0/24 AS17184 ATL-CBEYOND - CBEYOND COMMUNICATIONS, LLC,US 98.143.161.0/24 AS17184 ATL-CBEYOND - CBEYOND COMMUNICATIONS, LLC,US 98.143.162.0/24 AS17184 ATL-CBEYOND - CBEYOND COMMUNICATIONS, LLC,US 98.143.163.0/24 AS17184 ATL-CBEYOND - CBEYOND COMMUNICATIONS, LLC,US 98.143.164.0/24 AS17184 ATL-CBEYOND - CBEYOND COMMUNICATIONS, LLC,US 98.143.165.0/24 AS17184 ATL-CBEYOND - CBEYOND COMMUNICATIONS, LLC,US 98.143.166.0/24 AS17184 ATL-CBEYOND - CBEYOND COMMUNICATIONS, LLC,US 98.143.167.0/24 AS17184 ATL-CBEYOND - CBEYOND COMMUNICATIONS, LLC,US 98.143.168.0/22 AS17184 ATL-CBEYOND - CBEYOND COMMUNICATIONS, LLC,US 98.143.172.0/22 AS26566 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 98.143.172.0/24 AS17184 ATL-CBEYOND - CBEYOND COMMUNICATIONS, LLC,US 98.143.173.0/24 AS17184 ATL-CBEYOND - CBEYOND COMMUNICATIONS, LLC,US 98.143.174.0/24 AS17184 ATL-CBEYOND - CBEYOND COMMUNICATIONS, LLC,US 98.143.175.0/24 AS17184 ATL-CBEYOND - CBEYOND COMMUNICATIONS, LLC,US 100.100.1.0/24 AS9730 BHARTITELESONIC-AS-IN-AP Bharti Telesonic Ltd,IN 103.11.16.0/22 AS23818 JETINTERNET JETINTERNET Corporation,JP 103.12.48.0/22 AS17676 JPNIC-JP-ASN-BLOCK Japan Network Information Center,JP 103.12.241.0/24 AS7718 TRANSACT-SDN-AS TransACT Capital Communications Pty Limited,AU 103.12.247.0/24 AS13233 103.13.204.0/22 AS17676 JPNIC-JP-ASN-BLOCK Japan Network Information Center,JP 103.15.92.0/22 AS23818 JETINTERNET JETINTERNET Corporation,JP 103.18.44.0/24 AS18351 MEDIAAKSES-AS PT Media Akses Global Indo, Internet Provider Jakarta,ID 103.18.45.0/24 AS18351 MEDIAAKSES-AS PT Media Akses Global Indo, Internet Provider Jakarta,ID 103.18.47.0/24 AS18351 MEDIAAKSES-AS PT Media Akses Global Indo, Internet Provider Jakarta,ID 103.20.100.0/24 AS10201 DWL-AS-IN Dishnet Wireless Limited. Broadband Wireless,IN 103.20.101.0/24 AS10201 DWL-AS-IN Dishnet Wireless Limited. Broadband Wireless,IN 103.20.219.0/24 AS55795 VERBDC1-AS-AP Verb Data Centre Pty Ltd,AU 103.22.212.0/22 AS23818 JETINTERNET JETINTERNET Corporation,JP 103.23.148.0/23 AS13209 103.23.148.0/24 AS13209 103.25.144.0/22 AS23818 JETINTERNET JETINTERNET Corporation,JP 103.29.90.0/23 AS9503 FX-PRIMARY-AS FX Networks Limited,AU 103.29.236.0/24 AS13200 103.29.237.0/24 AS13200 103.198.0.0/16 AS7497 CSTNET-AS-AP Computer Network Information Center,CN 103.199.0.0/16 AS7497 CSTNET-AS-AP Computer Network Information Center,CN 103.225.116.0/22 AS23818 JETINTERNET JETINTERNET Corporation,JP 103.229.152.0/22 AS13145 CPROCOLTD-AS-AP C-PRO CO., LTD.,KH 103.232.164.0/22 AS13145 CPROCOLTD-AS-AP C-PRO CO., LTD.,KH 103.233.140.0/23 AS55330 GCN-DCN-AS AFGHANTELECOM GOVERNMENT COMMUNICATION NETWORK,AF 103.235.72.0/23 AS17676 JPNIC-JP-ASN-BLOCK Japan Network Information Center,JP 103.235.74.0/23 AS10015 JPNIC-NET-JP-AS-BLOCK Japan Network Information Center,JP 103.235.216.0/22 AS10021 JPNIC-NET-JP-AS-BLOCK Japan Network Information Center,JP 103.237.76.0/22 AS10021 JPNIC-NET-JP-AS-BLOCK Japan Network Information Center,JP 103.238.64.0/22 AS13272 SANYUNETCORP-JP 5-3 Miyuki-cho,JP 103.238.112.0/22 AS4766 KIXS-AS-KR Korea Telecom,KR 103.239.12.0/22 AS10021 JPNIC-NET-JP-AS-BLOCK Japan Network Information Center,JP 103.239.64.0/22 AS10021 JPNIC-NET-JP-AS-BLOCK Japan Network Information Center,JP 103.244.112.0/22 AS23818 JETINTERNET JETINTERNET Corporation,JP 103.248.88.0/22 AS23818 JETINTERNET JETINTERNET Corporation,JP 103.250.96.0/22 AS2514 JPNIC-2BYTE-ASBLOCK-AP Block of 32 AS numbers from AS2497 to AS2528,JP 103.253.164.0/23 AS13317 116.199.203.0/24 AS38521 PISHON-AS-ID Pishon Wireless Teknologi, PT,ID 116.199.205.0/24 AS38521 PISHON-AS-ID Pishon Wireless Teknologi, PT,ID 116.199.206.0/24 AS38521 PISHON-AS-ID Pishon Wireless Teknologi, PT,ID 116.199.207.0/24 AS38521 PISHON-AS-ID Pishon Wireless Teknologi, PT,ID 116.206.72.0/24 AS6461 ABOVENET - Abovenet Communications, Inc,US 116.206.85.0/24 AS6461 ABOVENET - Abovenet Communications, Inc,US 116.206.103.0/24 AS6461 ABOVENET - Abovenet Communications, Inc,US 117.120.56.0/21 AS4755 TATACOMM-AS TATA Communications formerly VSNL is Leading ISP,IN 142.147.62.0/24 AS3958 AIRCANADA - Air Canada,CA 154.168.28.0/23 AS29571 CITelecom-AS,CI 155.35.0.0/16 AS9418 CA-ASIAPAC-AS-AP Computer Associates Asia Pacific,AU 155.35.1.0/24 AS9418 CA-ASIAPAC-AS-AP Computer Associates Asia Pacific,AU 155.35.34.0/24 AS9418 CA-ASIAPAC-AS-AP Computer Associates Asia Pacific,AU 155.35.35.0/24 AS9418 CA-ASIAPAC-AS-AP Computer Associates Asia Pacific,AU 155.35.46.0/24 AS9418 CA-ASIAPAC-AS-AP Computer Associates Asia Pacific,AU 155.35.47.0/24 AS9418 CA-ASIAPAC-AS-AP Computer Associates Asia Pacific,AU 155.35.232.0/24 AS9418 CA-ASIAPAC-AS-AP Computer Associates Asia Pacific,AU 162.216.176.0/22 AS36114 VERSAWEB-ASN - Versaweb, LLC,US 162.221.64.0/21 AS40430 COLO4JAX-AS - colo4jax, LLC,US 162.221.64.0/22 AS40430 COLO4JAX-AS - colo4jax, LLC,US 162.221.68.0/22 AS40430 COLO4JAX-AS - colo4jax, LLC,US 162.222.128.0/21 AS36114 VERSAWEB-ASN - Versaweb, LLC,US 162.245.64.0/21 AS62788 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 162.248.224.0/21 AS62788 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 166.93.0.0/16 AS23537 CRITIGEN - Micro Source, Inc.,US 167.88.48.0/20 AS29927 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 172.102.0.0/22 AS4812 CHINANET-SH-AP China Telecom (Group),CN 173.45.192.0/20 AS62722 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 173.45.208.0/20 AS62722 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 173.249.191.0/24 AS45816 ISHK-AP I-Services Network Solution Limited,HK 180.222.120.0/21 AS23818 JETINTERNET JETINTERNET Corporation,JP 181.225.156.0/22 AS10834 Telefonica de Argentina,AR 185.17.98.0/23 AS19798 HILF-AS Hilf Telecom B.V.,NL 192.25.10.0/24 AS5714 HPES - Hewlett-Packard Company,US 192.25.11.0/24 AS5714 HPES - Hewlett-Packard Company,US 192.25.13.0/24 AS5714 HPES - Hewlett-Packard Company,US 192.25.14.0/24 AS5714 HPES - Hewlett-Packard Company,US 192.34.152.0/21 AS10835 VISIONARY - Visionary Communications, Inc.,US 192.67.160.0/24 AS55480 ISERVICES-HK I-Services Network Solution Ltd,HK 192.67.161.0/24 AS55480 ISERVICES-HK I-Services Network Solution Ltd,HK 192.75.239.0/24 AS23498 CDSI - COGECODATA,CA 192.84.24.0/24 AS4323 TWTC - tw telecom holdings, inc.,US 192.101.46.0/23 AS17139 NETRANGE - Corporate Colocation Inc.,US 192.101.70.0/24 AS701 UUNET - MCI Communications Services, Inc. d/b/a Verizon Business,US 192.101.71.0/24 AS701 UUNET - MCI Communications Services, Inc. d/b/a Verizon Business,US 192.101.72.0/24 AS702 UUNET - MCI Communications Services, Inc. d/b/a Verizon Business,US 192.124.252.0/22 AS680 DFN Verein zur Foerderung eines Deutschen Forschungsnetzes e.V.,DE 192.149.81.0/24 AS14454 PERIMETER-ESECURITY - Perimeter eSecurity,US 192.154.32.0/19 AS81 NCREN - MCNC,US 192.154.64.0/19 AS81 NCREN - MCNC,US 192.166.32.0/20 AS702 UUNET - MCI Communications Services, Inc. d/b/a Verizon Business,US 192.188.208.0/20 AS721 DNIC-ASBLK-00721-00726 - DoD Network Information Center,US 192.206.140.0/24 AS54926 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 192.206.141.0/24 AS54926 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 192.206.142.0/24 AS54926 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 192.206.143.0/24 AS54926 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 192.245.195.0/24 AS7381 SUNGARDRS - SunGard Availability Services LP,US 193.9.59.0/24 AS1257 TELE2,SE 193.16.106.0/24 AS31539 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 193.16.145.0/24 AS31392 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 193.22.86.0/24 AS24751 MULTIFI-AS Jakobstadsnejdens Telefon Ab,FI 193.22.224.0/20 AS6824 HERMES-NETWORK Hermes Telecom International Ltd,GB 193.26.213.0/24 AS31641 BYTEL-AS Bytel Ltd,GB 193.28.14.0/24 AS34309 LINK11 Link11 GmbH,DE 193.28.54.0/24 AS19732 ZAMANHOST-AS Rusnak Vasil Viktorvich,UA 193.32.23.0/24 AS2856 BT-UK-AS BT Public Internet Service,GB 193.33.6.0/23 AS3356 LEVEL3 - Level 3 Communications, Inc.,US 193.33.252.0/23 AS3356 LEVEL3 - Level 3 Communications, Inc.,US 193.46.200.0/24 AS34243 WEBAGE Web Age Ltd,GB 193.56.203.0/24 AS51110 IDOMTECHNOLOGIES-AS IDOM TECHNOLOGIES,FR 193.111.229.0/24 AS3356 LEVEL3 - Level 3 Communications, Inc.,US 193.149.2.0/23 AS15919 INTERHOST Servicios de Hosting en Internet S.A.,ES 193.151.160.0/19 AS39906 COPROSYS CoProSys a.s.,CZ 193.164.152.0/24 AS3356 LEVEL3 - Level 3 Communications, Inc.,US 193.178.196.0/22 AS15657 SPEEDBONE-AS Speedbone Internet & Connectivity GmbH,DE 193.188.252.0/24 AS38968 TAGORG Abu-Ghazaleh Intellectual Property,JO 193.200.96.0/23 AS2828 XO-AS15 - XO Communications,US 193.200.130.0/24 AS21104 AM-NETSYS-AS Netsys JV LLC,AM 193.200.244.0/24 AS3356 LEVEL3 - Level 3 Communications, Inc.,US 193.201.244.0/24 AS702 UUNET - MCI Communications Services, Inc. d/b/a Verizon Business,US 193.201.245.0/24 AS702 UUNET - MCI Communications Services, Inc. d/b/a Verizon Business,US 193.201.246.0/24 AS702 UUNET - MCI Communications Services, Inc. d/b/a Verizon Business,US 193.202.8.0/21 AS6824 HERMES-NETWORK Hermes Telecom International Ltd,GB 193.223.103.0/24 AS8437 UTA-AS Tele2 Telecommunication GmbH,AT 193.227.109.0/24 AS3356 LEVEL3 - Level 3 Communications, Inc.,US 193.227.236.0/23 AS3356 LEVEL3 - Level 3 Communications, Inc.,US 194.6.252.0/24 AS21202 DCSNET-AS Bredband2 AB,SE 194.9.8.0/23 AS2863 SPRITELINK Centor AB,SE 194.9.8.0/24 AS2863 SPRITELINK Centor AB,SE 194.9.9.0/24 AS2863 SPRITELINK Centor AB,SE 194.11.16.0/24 AS44050 PIN-AS Petersburg Internet Network ltd.,RU 194.11.20.0/23 AS44050 PIN-AS Petersburg Internet Network ltd.,RU 194.11.20.0/24 AS44050 PIN-AS Petersburg Internet Network ltd.,RU 194.39.78.0/23 AS702 UUNET - MCI Communications Services, Inc. d/b/a Verizon Business,US 194.49.17.0/24 AS13135 CREW-AS Wieske's Crew GmbH,DE 194.50.8.0/24 AS3356 LEVEL3 - Level 3 Communications, Inc.,US 194.60.88.0/21 AS5089 NTL Virgin Media Limited,GB 194.63.152.0/22 AS3356 LEVEL3 - Level 3 Communications, Inc.,US 194.76.224.0/24 AS34701 WITZENMANN-AS Witzenmann GmbH, Pforzheim,DE 194.76.225.0/24 AS34701 WITZENMANN-AS Witzenmann GmbH, Pforzheim,DE 194.88.6.0/24 AS35093 RO-HTPASSPORT High Tech Passport Ltd SUA California San Jose SUCURSALA BUCURESTI ROMANIA,RO 194.88.226.0/23 AS3356 LEVEL3 - Level 3 Communications, Inc.,US 194.99.67.0/24 AS9083 CARPENET carpeNet Information Technologies GmbH,DE 194.126.152.0/23 AS3356 LEVEL3 - Level 3 Communications, Inc.,US 194.126.233.0/24 AS31235 SKIWEBCENTER-AS SKIWEBCENTER SARL,FR 194.180.25.0/24 AS21358 ATOS-ORIGIN-DE-AS Atos Information Technology GmbH,DE 194.187.24.0/22 AS8856 UKRNET UkrNet Ltd.,UA 195.8.48.0/23 AS3356 LEVEL3 - Level 3 Communications, Inc.,US 195.8.48.0/24 AS3356 LEVEL3 - Level 3 Communications, Inc.,US 195.42.232.0/22 AS15657 SPEEDBONE-AS Speedbone Internet & Connectivity GmbH,DE 195.85.194.0/24 AS3356 LEVEL3 - Level 3 Communications, Inc.,US 195.85.201.0/24 AS3356 LEVEL3 - Level 3 Communications, Inc.,US 195.110.0.0/23 AS3356 LEVEL3 - Level 3 Communications, Inc.,US 195.128.240.0/23 AS21202 DCSNET-AS Bredband2 AB,SE 195.149.119.0/24 AS3356 LEVEL3 - Level 3 Communications, Inc.,US 195.189.174.0/23 AS3356 LEVEL3 - Level 3 Communications, Inc.,US 195.211.168.0/22 AS19738 TISA-SOFT-AS OOO "Tisa-Soft",RU 195.216.234.0/24 AS31309 NMV-AS New Media Ventures BVBA,BE 195.234.156.0/24 AS25028 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 195.242.182.0/24 AS3356 LEVEL3 - Level 3 Communications, Inc.,US 195.244.18.0/23 AS3356 LEVEL3 - Level 3 Communications, Inc.,US 196.3.180.0/24 AS37004 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 196.3.181.0/24 AS37004 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 196.3.182.0/24 AS37004 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 196.3.183.0/24 AS37004 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 196.22.11.0/24 AS16422 NEWSKIES-NETWORKS - New Skies Satellites, Inc.,US 198.8.72.0/21 AS40430 COLO4JAX-AS - colo4jax, LLC,US 198.8.72.0/22 AS40430 COLO4JAX-AS - colo4jax, LLC,US 198.8.76.0/24 AS40430 COLO4JAX-AS - colo4jax, LLC,US 198.8.77.0/24 AS40430 COLO4JAX-AS - colo4jax, LLC,US 198.8.78.0/24 AS40430 COLO4JAX-AS - colo4jax, LLC,US 198.8.79.0/24 AS40430 COLO4JAX-AS - colo4jax, LLC,US 198.22.195.0/24 AS54583 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 198.23.26.0/24 AS33052 VZUNET - Verizon Data Services LLC,US 198.73.226.0/23 AS62839 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 198.74.11.0/24 AS14573 KEYSPANENERGY-NE1 - Keyspan Energy,US 198.74.13.0/24 AS14573 KEYSPANENERGY-NE1 - Keyspan Energy,US 198.74.38.0/24 AS16966 SBCIDC-LSAN03 - AT&T Internet Services,US 198.74.39.0/24 AS16966 SBCIDC-LSAN03 - AT&T Internet Services,US 198.74.40.0/24 AS16966 SBCIDC-LSAN03 - AT&T Internet Services,US 198.91.44.0/22 AS40430 COLO4JAX-AS - colo4jax, LLC,US 198.91.44.0/24 AS40430 COLO4JAX-AS - colo4jax, LLC,US 198.91.45.0/24 AS40430 COLO4JAX-AS - colo4jax, LLC,US 198.91.46.0/24 AS40430 COLO4JAX-AS - colo4jax, LLC,US 198.91.47.0/24 AS40430 COLO4JAX-AS - colo4jax, LLC,US 198.97.72.0/21 AS721 DNIC-ASBLK-00721-00726 - DoD Network Information Center,US 198.97.96.0/19 AS721 DNIC-ASBLK-00721-00726 - DoD Network Information Center,US 198.97.240.0/20 AS721 DNIC-ASBLK-00721-00726 - DoD Network Information Center,US 198.163.214.0/24 AS21804 ACCESS-SK - Access Communications Co-operative Limited,CA 198.168.0.0/16 AS701 UUNET - MCI Communications Services, Inc. d/b/a Verizon Business,US 199.66.15.0/24 AS30169 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 199.85.9.0/24 AS852 ASN852 - TELUS Communications Inc.,CA 199.88.52.0/22 AS17018 QTS-SACRAMENTO-1 - Quality Investment Properties Sacramento, LLC,US 199.102.240.0/24 AS18508 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 199.103.89.0/24 AS19523 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 199.116.200.0/21 AS22830 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 199.121.0.0/16 AS721 DNIC-ASBLK-00721-00726 - DoD Network Information Center,US 199.123.16.0/20 AS721 DNIC-ASBLK-00721-00726 - DoD Network Information Center,US 199.182.207.0/24 AS23136 ONX - OnX Enterprise Solutions Inc.,CA 199.233.87.0/24 AS33058 PEGASYSTEMS - Pegasystems Inc.,US 200.58.248.0/21 AS27849 200.81.48.0/24 AS11664 Techtel LMDS Comunicaciones Interactivas S.A.,AR 200.81.49.0/24 AS11664 Techtel LMDS Comunicaciones Interactivas S.A.,AR 201.131.5.0/24 AS28389 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 201.131.88.0/24 AS8151 Uninet S.A. de C.V.,MX 202.3.75.0/24 AS18172 202.3.76.0/24 AS18172 202.8.106.0/24 AS9530 SHINSEGAE-AS SHINSEGAE I&C Co., Ltd.,KR 202.45.10.0/23 AS24327 202.45.10.0/24 AS24327 202.45.11.0/24 AS24327 202.53.138.0/24 AS4058 CITICTEL-CPC-AS4058 CITIC Telecom International CPC Limited,HK 202.94.1.0/24 AS4808 CHINA169-BJ CNCGROUP IP network China169 Beijing Province Network,CN 202.122.134.0/24 AS38615 202.158.251.0/24 AS9255 CONNECTPLUS-AS Singapore Telecom,SG 202.179.134.0/24 AS23966 LDN-AS-PK LINKdotNET Telecom Limited,PK 203.6.208.0/24 AS23937 203.6.209.0/24 AS23937 203.6.210.0/24 AS23937 203.6.211.0/24 AS23937 203.6.213.0/24 AS23937 203.6.215.0/24 AS23937 203.142.219.0/24 AS45149 203.175.11.0/24 AS9229 SPEEDCAST-AP SPEEDCAST Limited,HK 204.10.88.0/21 AS3356 LEVEL3 - Level 3 Communications, Inc.,US 204.15.208.0/22 AS13706 COMPLETEWEBNET - CompleteWeb.Net LLC,US 204.16.96.0/24 AS19972 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 204.16.97.0/24 AS19972 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 204.16.98.0/24 AS19972 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 204.16.99.0/24 AS19972 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 204.69.139.0/24 AS40250 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 204.69.144.0/24 AS27283 RJF-INTERNET - Raymond James Financial, Inc.,US 204.86.196.0/23 AS14372 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 204.86.198.0/23 AS33058 PEGASYSTEMS - Pegasystems Inc.,US 204.87.251.0/24 AS22217 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 204.106.16.0/24 AS4323 TWTC - tw telecom holdings, inc.,US 204.187.11.0/24 AS51113 ELEKTA-AS Elekta,GB 204.235.245.0/24 AS22613 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 205.137.240.0/20 AS11686 ENA - Education Networks of America,US 205.159.44.0/24 AS40157 ADESA-CORP-AS - ADESA Corp,US 205.166.231.0/24 AS7029 WINDSTREAM - Windstream Communications Inc,US 205.211.160.0/24 AS30045 UHN-ASN - University Health Network,CA 206.197.184.0/24 AS23304 DATOTEL-STL-AS - Datotel LLC, a NetLabs LLC Company,US 207.2.120.0/21 AS6221 USCYBERSITES - US Cybersites, Inc,US 207.174.131.0/24 AS26116 INDRA - Indra's Net Inc,US 207.174.132.0/23 AS26116 INDRA - Indra's Net Inc,US 207.174.152.0/23 AS26116 INDRA - Indra's Net Inc,US 207.174.154.0/24 AS26116 INDRA - Indra's Net Inc,US 207.174.155.0/24 AS26116 INDRA - Indra's Net Inc,US 207.174.200.0/24 AS22658 EARTHNET - Earthnet, Inc.,US 207.231.96.0/19 AS11194 NUNETPA - NuNet Inc.,US 207.254.128.0/21 AS30689 FLOW-NET - FLOW,JM 207.254.136.0/21 AS30689 FLOW-NET - FLOW,JM 208.66.64.0/24 AS16936 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 208.66.65.0/24 AS16936 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 208.66.66.0/24 AS16936 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 208.66.67.0/24 AS16936 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 208.67.132.0/22 AS701 UUNET - MCI Communications Services, Inc. d/b/a Verizon Business,US 208.73.40.0/22 AS19901 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 208.73.41.0/24 AS19901 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 208.74.12.0/23 AS209 CENTURYLINK-US-LEGACY-QWEST - Qwest Communications Company, LLC,US 208.75.152.0/21 AS32146 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 208.76.20.0/24 AS31812 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 208.76.21.0/24 AS31812 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 208.77.164.0/24 AS22659 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 208.77.166.0/24 AS4323 TWTC - tw telecom holdings, inc.,US 208.83.53.0/24 AS40569 YGOMI-AS - Ygomi LLC,US 208.84.232.0/24 AS33131 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 208.84.233.0/24 AS33131 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 208.84.234.0/24 AS33131 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 208.84.237.0/24 AS33131 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 208.84.238.0/24 AS33131 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 208.93.216.0/22 AS209 CENTURYLINK-US-LEGACY-QWEST - Qwest Communications Company, LLC,US 208.94.216.0/23 AS13629 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 208.94.219.0/24 AS13629 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 208.94.221.0/24 AS13629 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 208.94.223.0/24 AS13629 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 209.135.171.0/24 AS701 UUNET - MCI Communications Services, Inc. d/b/a Verizon Business,US 209.135.175.0/24 AS701 UUNET - MCI Communications Services, Inc. d/b/a Verizon Business,US 209.177.64.0/20 AS6461 ABOVENET - Abovenet Communications, Inc,US 209.193.112.0/20 AS209 CENTURYLINK-US-LEGACY-QWEST - Qwest Communications Company, LLC,US 209.234.112.0/23 AS32252 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 209.234.114.0/23 AS32252 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 209.234.116.0/24 AS32252 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 209.234.117.0/24 AS32252 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 209.234.118.0/24 AS32252 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 209.234.119.0/24 AS32252 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 209.234.120.0/24 AS32252 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 209.234.121.0/24 AS32252 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 209.234.122.0/24 AS32252 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 213.255.128.0/20 AS24863 LINKdotNET-AS,EG 213.255.144.0/20 AS24863 LINKdotNET-AS,EG 216.73.81.0/24 AS6432 DOUBLECLICK - Double Click, Inc.,US 216.73.82.0/24 AS6432 DOUBLECLICK - Double Click, Inc.,US 216.73.85.0/24 AS6432 DOUBLECLICK - Double Click, Inc.,US 216.73.88.0/24 AS6432 DOUBLECLICK - Double Click, Inc.,US 216.73.89.0/24 AS6432 DOUBLECLICK - Double Click, Inc.,US 216.73.94.0/24 AS6432 DOUBLECLICK - Double Click, Inc.,US 216.73.95.0/24 AS6432 DOUBLECLICK - Double Click, Inc.,US 216.146.0.0/19 AS11915 US-TELEPACIFIC - TelePacific Communications,US 216.152.24.0/22 AS22773 ASN-CXA-ALL-CCI-22773-RDC - Cox Communications Inc.,US 216.170.96.0/24 AS4565 MEGAPATH2-US - MegaPath Networks Inc.,US 216.170.101.0/24 AS4565 MEGAPATH2-US - MegaPath Networks Inc.,US 216.170.104.0/24 AS4565 MEGAPATH2-US - MegaPath Networks Inc.,US 216.170.105.0/24 AS4565 MEGAPATH2-US - MegaPath Networks Inc.,US 216.234.132.0/24 AS14545 ADR-DRIVING-RECORDS - AMERICAN DRIVING RECORDS, INC.,US 216.238.192.0/24 AS17184 ATL-CBEYOND - CBEYOND COMMUNICATIONS, LLC,US 216.238.193.0/24 AS17184 ATL-CBEYOND - CBEYOND COMMUNICATIONS, LLC,US 216.238.194.0/24 AS26566 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 216.238.196.0/22 AS17184 ATL-CBEYOND - CBEYOND COMMUNICATIONS, LLC,US 216.251.50.0/24 AS38191 INFOSYS-AS Infosys Technologies Ltd,IN 216.251.53.0/24 AS38191 INFOSYS-AS Infosys Technologies Ltd,IN 216.251.62.0/24 AS38191 INFOSYS-AS Infosys Technologies Ltd,IN 217.147.6.0/24 AS8936 ASKUBAN CJSC Orbita,RU 217.147.7.0/24 AS8936 ASKUBAN CJSC Orbita,RU 217.147.10.0/24 AS8936 ASKUBAN CJSC Orbita,RU Please see http://www.cidr-report.org for the full report ------------------------------------ Copies of this report are mailed to: nanog at nanog.org eof-list at ripe.net apops at apops.net routing-wg at ripe.net afnog at afnog.org From cidr-report at potaroo.net Fri Oct 2 22:00:01 2015 From: cidr-report at potaroo.net (cidr-report at potaroo.net) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 22:00:01 GMT Subject: BGP Update Report Message-ID: <201510022200.t92M01sO080774@wattle.apnic.net> BGP Update Report Interval: 24-Sep-15 -to- 01-Oct-15 (7 days) Observation Point: BGP Peering with AS131072 TOP 20 Unstable Origin AS Rank ASN Upds % Upds/Pfx AS-Name 1 - AS9829 156822 3.7% 115.6 -- BSNL-NIB National Internet Backbone,IN 2 - AS21669 114121 2.7% 12680.1 -- NJ-STATEWIDE-LIBRARY-NETWORK - New Jersey State Library,US 3 - AS22059 107173 2.5% 53586.5 -- -Reserved AS-,ZZ 4 - AS6917 65668 1.6% 4690.6 -- MULTEXSYS - Multex Systems, Inc.,US 5 - AS3709 61744 1.5% 2286.8 -- NET-CITY-SA - City of San Antonio,US 6 - AS3255 45047 1.1% 221.9 -- UARNET-AS State Enterprise Scientific and Telecommunication Centre "Ukrainian Academic and Research Network" of the Institute for Condensed Matter Physics of the National Academy of Science of Ukraine (UARNet),UA 7 - AS28024 38170 0.9% 24.3 -- Nuevatel PCS de Bolivia S.A.,BO 8 - AS8001 36676 0.9% 225.0 -- NET-ACCESS-CORP - Net Access Corporation,US 9 - AS48159 33454 0.8% 95.0 -- TIC-AS Telecommunication Infrastructure Company,IR 10 - AS30295 32802 0.8% 10934.0 -- 2ICSYSTEMSINC - 2iC Systems Inc.,CA 11 - AS14522 32330 0.8% 55.9 -- Satnet,EC 12 - AS44244 28942 0.7% 275.6 -- IRANCELL-AS Iran Cell Service and Communication Company,IR 13 - AS131090 28808 0.7% 104.4 -- CAT-IDC-4BYTENET-AS-AP CAT TELECOM Public Company Ltd,CAT ,TH 14 - AS38447 27363 0.7% 27363.0 -- CBL-AS-AP CBL Group Content Service Provider AS for AP,AU 15 - AS8402 26888 0.6% 79.6 -- CORBINA-AS OJSC "Vimpelcom",RU 16 - AS56636 26675 0.6% 26675.0 -- ASVEDARU VEDA Ltd.,RU 17 - AS45025 25292 0.6% 6323.0 -- EDN-AS Online Technologies LTD,UA 18 - AS197495 24137 0.6% 24137.0 -- LARSENDATA Larsen Data ApS,DK 19 - AS62823 21800 0.5% 96.5 -- CHOICEPR-1 - Puerto Rico Cable Acquisition Company Inc.,PR 20 - AS9198 20143 0.5% 23.4 -- KAZTELECOM-AS JSC Kazakhtelecom,KZ TOP 20 Unstable Origin AS (Updates per announced prefix) Rank ASN Upds % Upds/Pfx AS-Name 1 - AS22059 107173 2.5% 53586.5 -- -Reserved AS-,ZZ 2 - AS38447 27363 0.7% 27363.0 -- CBL-AS-AP CBL Group Content Service Provider AS for AP,AU 3 - AS56636 26675 0.6% 26675.0 -- ASVEDARU VEDA Ltd.,RU 4 - AS197495 24137 0.6% 24137.0 -- LARSENDATA Larsen Data ApS,DK 5 - AS200671 18547 0.4% 18547.0 -- SKOK-JAWORZNO SKOK Jaworzno,PL 6 - AS21669 114121 2.7% 12680.1 -- NJ-STATEWIDE-LIBRARY-NETWORK - New Jersey State Library,US 7 - AS30295 32802 0.8% 10934.0 -- 2ICSYSTEMSINC - 2iC Systems Inc.,CA 8 - AS133722 18081 0.4% 9040.5 -- MCARBON-AS mCarbon Tech Innovation Private Limited,IN 9 - AS37590 8622 0.2% 8622.0 -- BCA-ASN,AO 10 - AS40493 7775 0.2% 7775.0 -- FACILITYSOURCEINC - FacilitySource,US 11 - AS3708 7202 0.2% 7202.0 -- -Reserved AS-,ZZ 12 - AS45025 25292 0.6% 6323.0 -- EDN-AS Online Technologies LTD,UA 13 - AS6917 65668 1.6% 4690.6 -- MULTEXSYS - Multex Systems, Inc.,US 14 - AS199941 3223 0.1% 3223.0 -- EASYCONN-AS EasyConn SRL,IT 15 - AS3709 61744 1.5% 2286.8 -- NET-CITY-SA - City of San Antonio,US 16 - AS198873 1958 0.1% 1958.0 -- SOGLASIE OOO "SK "Soglasie",RU 17 - AS13737 13329 0.3% 1666.1 -- RIVERFRONT - Riverfront Communications LLC,US 18 - AS35093 4141 0.1% 1380.3 -- RO-HTPASSPORT High Tech Passport Ltd SUA California San Jose SUCURSALA BUCURESTI ROMANIA,RO 19 - AS132986 5506 0.1% 1376.5 -- DDCPL-AS Digital Dreams Consulting Pvt Ltd,IN 20 - AS60728 2749 0.1% 1374.5 -- FINK Andreas Fink,CH TOP 20 Unstable Prefixes Rank Prefix Upds % Origin AS -- AS Name 1 - 209.212.8.0/24 114103 2.6% AS21669 -- NJ-STATEWIDE-LIBRARY-NETWORK - New Jersey State Library,US 2 - 64.34.125.0/24 53646 1.2% AS22059 -- -Reserved AS-,ZZ 3 - 76.191.107.0/24 53527 1.2% AS22059 -- -Reserved AS-,ZZ 4 - 192.135.223.0/24 36239 0.8% AS8001 -- NET-ACCESS-CORP - Net Access Corporation,US 5 - 61.7.155.0/24 27970 0.6% AS131090 -- CAT-IDC-4BYTENET-AS-AP CAT TELECOM Public Company Ltd,CAT ,TH 6 - 203.84.132.0/24 27363 0.6% AS38447 -- CBL-AS-AP CBL Group Content Service Provider AS for AP,AU 7 - 195.128.159.0/24 26675 0.6% AS56636 -- ASVEDARU VEDA Ltd.,RU 8 - 151.0.32.0/21 24804 0.6% AS45025 -- EDN-AS Online Technologies LTD,UA 9 - 185.10.10.0/24 24137 0.6% AS197495 -- LARSENDATA Larsen Data ApS,DK 10 - 155.133.79.0/24 18547 0.4% AS200671 -- SKOK-JAWORZNO SKOK Jaworzno,PL 11 - 216.150.230.0/24 13227 0.3% AS13737 -- RIVERFRONT - Riverfront Communications LLC,US 12 - 199.60.236.0/24 11780 0.3% AS30295 -- 2ICSYSTEMSINC - 2iC Systems Inc.,CA 13 - 199.60.234.0/23 11030 0.2% AS30295 -- 2ICSYSTEMSINC - 2iC Systems Inc.,CA 14 - 162.104.200.0/24 10420 0.2% AS22561 -- CENTURYLINK-LEGACY-LIGHTCORE - CenturyTel Internet Holdings, Inc.,US 15 - 202.41.70.0/24 10064 0.2% AS2697 -- ERX-ERNET-AS Education and Research Network,IN 16 - 199.60.233.0/24 9992 0.2% AS30295 -- 2ICSYSTEMSINC - 2iC Systems Inc.,CA 17 - 66.19.194.0/24 9779 0.2% AS6316 -- AS-PAETEC-NET - PaeTec Communications, Inc.,US 18 - 103.49.244.0/24 9077 0.2% AS133722 -- MCARBON-AS mCarbon Tech Innovation Private Limited,IN 19 - 103.49.245.0/24 9004 0.2% AS133722 -- MCARBON-AS mCarbon Tech Innovation Private Limited,IN 20 - 196.6.255.0/24 8622 0.2% AS37590 -- BCA-ASN,AO Details at http://bgpupdates.potaroo.net ------------------------------------ Copies of this report are mailed to: nanog at nanog.org eof-list at ripe.net apops at apops.net routing-wg at ripe.net afnog at afnog.org From baldur.norddahl at gmail.com Fri Oct 2 22:11:43 2015 From: baldur.norddahl at gmail.com (Baldur Norddahl) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2015 00:11:43 +0200 Subject: How to force rapid ipv6 adoption In-Reply-To: References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560D9DD0.2030904@Janoszka.pl> <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE@delong.com> <20151001222813.B9469391102B@rock.dv.isc.org> <20151001232613.GD123100@rootmail.cc.le.ac.uk> <55A3A845-751A-4F21-BC6E-8549DD7BEFCB@delong.com> <9FB08507-F739-40CA-AA98-6D35B61F7C95@delong.com> <9591EA37-1A36-42AF-B5DC-E9FA737D6CE2@delong.com> Message-ID: Why are some people here asserting that IPv6 failed when it looks like it is actually taking off pretty good right now? https://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics.html Jan 2013 about 1% Jan 2014 about 2.5% Jan 2015 about 5% It is already past 9% so we will be at least at 10% by Jan 2016. Looks like a good exponential growth to me. The numbers for USA are even better at 21%. Traffic volume is also taking off: https://www.akamai.com/us/en/solutions/intelligent-platform/visualizing-akamai/ipv6-traffic-volume.jsp I will bet you good money that in a not too distant future we will see that IPv6 moves more bytes than IPv4. The IPv6 protocol is 17 years so it failed argument is meaningless. Maybe we needed IPv4 exhaustion before IPv6 could take off. No matter the reason, it is happening now. Regards, Baldur From danny at danysek.cz Fri Oct 2 22:29:46 2015 From: danny at danysek.cz (Daniel Suchy) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2015 00:29:46 +0200 Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: <3E65E40D-FCF2-4B16-88A4-D78D04CC79AD@matthew.at> References: <1636636404.1965.1443799986676.JavaMail.mhammett@ThunderFuck> <3E65E40D-FCF2-4B16-88A4-D78D04CC79AD@matthew.at> Message-ID: <560F055A.7070603@danysek.cz> It's not only about TCAM (and it's price), but also about convergence times... On 2.10.2015 17:48, Matthew Kaufman wrote: > Cheaper than buying everyone TCAM > > Matthew Kaufman -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 4233 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: From jj at anexia.at Fri Oct 2 23:11:47 2015 From: jj at anexia.at (=?utf-8?B?SsO8cmdlbiBKYXJpdHNjaA==?=) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 23:11:47 +0000 Subject: AW: AW: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: <1516233395.2818.1443814446880.JavaMail.mhammett@ThunderFuck> References: <5280b516a2fc4179a92583c656455616@anx-i-dag02.anx.local> <1516233395.2818.1443814446880.JavaMail.mhammett@ThunderFuck> Message-ID: <133ff0fed3394045add071349c00fcef@anx-i-dag02.anx.local> Hi Mike, sorry, this was probably sent to quick ... let me please explain my POV of your statement: I want to concentrate my detailed answer only to the backbone situation which is often handled by the 6500/7600 - I guess all of us know that the 6500/7600 has a ton of additional features ... 6-7 years in the past carriers (and/or big ISPs) had only n*1G backbone capacities built with platforms that only had n*100M interfaces another 3-5 years before. Their only invest in these 3-5 years was to add the Gig line cards, install some software updates and add new fibre optics (GBICs). Chassis, cabling, management interfaces etc could be remain in the cabinet - they only had to replace ONE line card (let's say for a few thousand bucks) and with this invest they were able to scale up their capacities. Of course: at some point they also had to replace the SUPs, PSUs, FANs, etc. But the invest in the surrounding stuff is nothing compared with completely new machines. So what all these companies did was buying a machine with an basic configuration and since 10(!) years they are able to expand this machines with (more or less) small and cheap upgrades. In backbone situations the 6500/7600 are definitely at the end of the resources the platform can provide. Most of the carriers (and of course also the bigger ISPs) had a real chance to evaluate a new model/vendor to ran future networks (with possibly also a very good scale-up path and scaling- and upgrade-options). Most of the before mentioned are already in an migration process (let's take a look at Seabone ... they are migration from Cisco to a mix of Juniper and Huawei). Summary: there are strict limitations within the Cisco 6500/7600 platform and these limitations forces the big players to move this boxes out (or move them into other parts of their network). The limitation with 1Mio routes is not a secret and the admins of these boxes decide what they want to use (e.g. 768k routes for IPv4 unicast and 256k routes for MPLS+VRF, etc). If the global routing table reaches the 768k mark (I guess this will happen in the next 12-18months) most of the boxes will crash again (as it happened in Aug 2014). Regarding the words "I have a small router which handles multiple full tables ...": push and pull a few full tables at the same time and you'll see what's happening: the CCRs are SLOW. And why? Because the software is not as good as it could be: the BGP daemon uses only one core of a 36(?) core CPU. Same problem in the past with the EoIP daemon (not sure if they fixed it on the CCRs - they fixed it on x86). Routerboards are nice and cool and to be honest: I'm a big fan of this stuff (also Ubiquiti). But with this boxes you're not able to ran a stable enterprise class carrier network with >99,5% uptime. And that?s thei MAIN reason why "the old shit" is still online :). Hopefully my words explained my hard "you know nothing" blabla ? Best regards J?rgen Jaritsch Head of Network & Infrastructure ANEXIA Internetdienstleistungs GmbH Telefon: +43-5-0556-300 Telefax: +43-5-0556-500 E-Mail: JJaritsch at anexia-it.com Web: http://www.anexia-it.com Anschrift Hauptsitz Klagenfurt: Feldkirchnerstra?e 140, 9020 Klagenfurt Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Alexander Windbichler Firmenbuch: FN 289918a | Gerichtsstand: Klagenfurt | UID-Nummer: AT U63216601 -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces at nanog.org] Im Auftrag von Mike Hammett Gesendet: Freitag, 02. Oktober 2015 21:33 Cc: NANOG Betreff: Re: AW: /27 the new /24 Hrm. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "J?rgen Jaritsch" To: "Mike Hammett" , "NANOG" Sent: Friday, October 2, 2015 2:25:10 PM Subject: AW: /27 the new /24 > Stop using old shit. Sorry, but the truth is: you have no idea about how earning revenue works and you obviously also have no idea about carrier grade networks. J?rgen Jaritsch Head of Network & Infrastructure ANEXIA Internetdienstleistungs GmbH Telefon: +43-5-0556-300 Telefax: +43-5-0556-500 E-Mail: JJaritsch at anexia-it.com Web: http://www.anexia-it.com Anschrift Hauptsitz Klagenfurt: Feldkirchnerstra?e 140, 9020 Klagenfurt Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Alexander Windbichler Firmenbuch: FN 289918a | Gerichtsstand: Klagenfurt | UID-Nummer: AT U63216601 -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces at nanog.org] Im Auftrag von Mike Hammett Gesendet: Freitag, 02. Oktober 2015 20:38 An: NANOG Betreff: Re: /27 the new /24 Chances are the revenue passing scales to some degree as well. Small business with small bandwidth needs buys small and has small revenue. Big business with big bandwidth needs buys big and has big revenue to support big router. I can think of no reason why ten years goes by and you haven't had a need to throw out the old network for new. If your business hasn't scaled with the times, then you need to get rid of your Cat 6500 and get something more power, space, heat, etc. efficient. I saw someone replace a stack of Mikrotik CCRs with a pair of old Cisco routers. I don't know what they were at the moment, but they had GBICs, so they weren't exactly new. Each router had two 2500w power supplies. They'll be worse in every way (other than *possibly* BGP convergence). The old setup consumed at most 300 watts. The new setup requires $500/month in power... and is worse. Stop using old shit. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Herrin" To: "Mike Hammett" Cc: "NANOG" Sent: Friday, October 2, 2015 1:09:16 PM Subject: Re: /27 the new /24 On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 11:50 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: > How many routers out there have this limitation? A $100 router > I bought ten years ago could manage many full tables. If > someone's network can't match that today, should I really have > any pity for them? Hi Mike, The technology doesn't work the way you think it does. Or more precisely, it only works the way you think it does on small (cheap) end-user routers. Those routers do everything in software on a general-purpose CPU using radix tries for the forwarding table (FIB). They don't have to (and can't) handle both high data rates and large routing tables at the same time. For a better understanding how the big iron works, check out https://www.pagiamtzis.com/cam/camintro/ . You'll occasionally see folks here talk about TCAM. This stands for Ternary Content Addressable Memory. It's a special circuit, different from DRAM and SRAM, used by most (but not all) big iron routers. The TCAM permits an O(1) route lookup instead of an O(log n) lookup. The architectural differences which balloon from there move the router cost from your $100 router into the hundreds of thousands of dollars. Your BGP advertisement doesn't just have to be carried on your $100 router. It also has to be carried on the half-million-dollar routers. That makes it expensive. Though out of date, this paper should help you better understand the systemic cost of a BGP route advertisement: http://bill.herrin.us/network/bgpcost.html Regards, Bill Herrin -- William Herrin ................ herrin at dirtside.com bill at herrin.us Owner, Dirtside Systems ......... Web: From mel at beckman.org Sat Oct 3 00:00:39 2015 From: mel at beckman.org (Mel Beckman) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2015 00:00:39 +0000 Subject: AW: AW: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: <133ff0fed3394045add071349c00fcef@anx-i-dag02.anx.local> References: <5280b516a2fc4179a92583c656455616@anx-i-dag02.anx.local> <1516233395.2818.1443814446880.JavaMail.mhammett@ThunderFuck>, <133ff0fed3394045add071349c00fcef@anx-i-dag02.anx.local> Message-ID: <59C009EC-5D1B-4AB1-B323-3E69446AED1C@beckman.org> Well said, J?rgen! -mel via cell > On Oct 2, 2015, at 4:13 PM, J?rgen Jaritsch wrote: > > Hi Mike, > > sorry, this was probably sent to quick ... let me please explain my POV of your statement: > > I want to concentrate my detailed answer only to the backbone situation which is often handled by the 6500/7600 - I guess all of us know that the 6500/7600 has a ton of additional features ... > > > 6-7 years in the past carriers (and/or big ISPs) had only n*1G backbone capacities built with platforms that only had n*100M interfaces another 3-5 years before. Their only invest in these 3-5 years was to add the Gig line cards, install some software updates and add new fibre optics (GBICs). Chassis, cabling, management interfaces etc could be remain in the cabinet - they only had to replace ONE line card (let's say for a few thousand bucks) and with this invest they were able to scale up their capacities. Of course: at some point they also had to replace the SUPs, PSUs, FANs, etc. But the invest in the surrounding stuff is nothing compared with completely new machines. > > So what all these companies did was buying a machine with an basic configuration and since 10(!) years they are able to expand this machines with (more or less) small and cheap upgrades. > > In backbone situations the 6500/7600 are definitely at the end of the resources the platform can provide. Most of the carriers (and of course also the bigger ISPs) had a real chance to evaluate a new model/vendor to ran future networks (with possibly also a very good scale-up path and scaling- and upgrade-options). Most of the before mentioned are already in an migration process (let's take a look at Seabone ... they are migration from Cisco to a mix of Juniper and Huawei). > > Summary: there are strict limitations within the Cisco 6500/7600 platform and these limitations forces the big players to move this boxes out (or move them into other parts of their network). The limitation with 1Mio routes is not a secret and the admins of these boxes decide what they want to use (e.g. 768k routes for IPv4 unicast and 256k routes for MPLS+VRF, etc). If the global routing table reaches the 768k mark (I guess this will happen in the next 12-18months) most of the boxes will crash again (as it happened in Aug 2014). > > > Regarding the words "I have a small router which handles multiple full tables ...": push and pull a few full tables at the same time and you'll see what's happening: the CCRs are SLOW. And why? Because the software is not as good as it could be: the BGP daemon uses only one core of a 36(?) core CPU. Same problem in the past with the EoIP daemon (not sure if they fixed it on the CCRs - they fixed it on x86). > > Routerboards are nice and cool and to be honest: I'm a big fan of this stuff (also Ubiquiti). But with this boxes you're not able to ran a stable enterprise class carrier network with >99,5% uptime. And that?s thei MAIN reason why "the old shit" is still online :). > > Hopefully my words explained my hard "you know nothing" blabla ? > > Best regards > > > J?rgen Jaritsch > Head of Network & Infrastructure > > ANEXIA Internetdienstleistungs GmbH > > Telefon: +43-5-0556-300 > Telefax: +43-5-0556-500 > > E-Mail: JJaritsch at anexia-it.com > Web: http://www.anexia-it.com > > Anschrift Hauptsitz Klagenfurt: Feldkirchnerstra?e 140, 9020 Klagenfurt > Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Alexander Windbichler > Firmenbuch: FN 289918a | Gerichtsstand: Klagenfurt | UID-Nummer: AT U63216601 > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces at nanog.org] Im Auftrag von Mike Hammett > Gesendet: Freitag, 02. Oktober 2015 21:33 > Cc: NANOG > Betreff: Re: AW: /27 the new /24 > > Hrm. > > > > > ----- > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions > http://www.ics-il.com > > > > Midwest Internet Exchange > http://www.midwest-ix.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "J?rgen Jaritsch" > To: "Mike Hammett" , "NANOG" > Sent: Friday, October 2, 2015 2:25:10 PM > Subject: AW: /27 the new /24 > >> Stop using old shit. > > Sorry, but the truth is: you have no idea about how earning revenue works and you obviously also have no idea about carrier grade networks. > > > > > J?rgen Jaritsch > Head of Network & Infrastructure > > ANEXIA Internetdienstleistungs GmbH > > Telefon: +43-5-0556-300 > Telefax: +43-5-0556-500 > > E-Mail: JJaritsch at anexia-it.com > Web: http://www.anexia-it.com > > Anschrift Hauptsitz Klagenfurt: Feldkirchnerstra?e 140, 9020 Klagenfurt > Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Alexander Windbichler > Firmenbuch: FN 289918a | Gerichtsstand: Klagenfurt | UID-Nummer: AT U63216601 > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces at nanog.org] Im Auftrag von Mike Hammett > Gesendet: Freitag, 02. Oktober 2015 20:38 > An: NANOG > Betreff: Re: /27 the new /24 > > Chances are the revenue passing scales to some degree as well. Small business with small bandwidth needs buys small and has small revenue. Big business with big bandwidth needs buys big and has big revenue to support big router. > > I can think of no reason why ten years goes by and you haven't had a need to throw out the old network for new. If your business hasn't scaled with the times, then you need to get rid of your Cat 6500 and get something more power, space, heat, etc. efficient. > > > I saw someone replace a stack of Mikrotik CCRs with a pair of old Cisco routers. I don't know what they were at the moment, but they had GBICs, so they weren't exactly new. Each router had two 2500w power supplies. They'll be worse in every way (other than *possibly* BGP convergence). The old setup consumed at most 300 watts. The new setup requires $500/month in power... and is worse. > > Stop using old shit. > > > > > ----- > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions > http://www.ics-il.com > > > > Midwest Internet Exchange > http://www.midwest-ix.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "William Herrin" > To: "Mike Hammett" > Cc: "NANOG" > Sent: Friday, October 2, 2015 1:09:16 PM > Subject: Re: /27 the new /24 > >> On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 11:50 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: >> How many routers out there have this limitation? A $100 router >> I bought ten years ago could manage many full tables. If >> someone's network can't match that today, should I really have >> any pity for them? > > Hi Mike, > > The technology doesn't work the way you think it does. Or more > precisely, it only works the way you think it does on small (cheap) > end-user routers. Those routers do everything in software on a > general-purpose CPU using radix tries for the forwarding table (FIB). > They don't have to (and can't) handle both high data rates and large > routing tables at the same time. > > For a better understanding how the big iron works, check out > https://www.pagiamtzis.com/cam/camintro/ . You'll occasionally see > folks here talk about TCAM. This stands for Ternary Content > Addressable Memory. It's a special circuit, different from DRAM and > SRAM, used by most (but not all) big iron routers. The TCAM permits an > O(1) route lookup instead of an O(log n) lookup. The architectural > differences which balloon from there move the router cost from your > $100 router into the hundreds of thousands of dollars. > > Your BGP advertisement doesn't just have to be carried on your $100 > router. It also has to be carried on the half-million-dollar routers. > That makes it expensive. > > Though out of date, this paper should help you better understand the > systemic cost of a BGP route advertisement: > http://bill.herrin.us/network/bgpcost.html > > Regards, > Bill Herrin > > > > > -- > William Herrin ................ herrin at dirtside.com bill at herrin.us > Owner, Dirtside Systems ......... Web: > > From marka at isc.org Sat Oct 3 00:19:14 2015 From: marka at isc.org (Mark Andrews) Date: Sat, 03 Oct 2015 10:19:14 +1000 Subject: How to force rapid ipv6 adoption In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 02 Oct 2015 07:52:16 -0700." <560E9A20.7090703@satchell.net> References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560D9DD0.2030904@Janoszka.pl> <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE@delong.com> <20151001222813.B9469391102B@rock.dv.isc.org> <20151001232613.GD123100@rootmail.cc.le.ac.uk> <20151002000125.9CD573911EF5@rock.dv.isc.org> <560E9A20.7090703@satchell.net> Message-ID: <20151003001914.4CE0E392816C@rock.dv.isc.org> In message <560E9A20.7090703 at satchell.net>, Stephen Satchell writes: > On 10/02/2015 07:27 AM, Steve Mikulasik wrote: > > I think people get too lost in the weeds when they start focusing on > > device support, home router support, user knowledge, etc. Just get it > > working to the people and we can figure out the rest later. > > > > The reality is that if customers can get it wrong, they WILL get it > wrong. So sluffing off customer support isn't an option -- it WILL bite > you in the ass, and the ISP who takes your advice can find themselves in > hot water, perhaps even legal hot water. > > Unless you are willing to let ISPs give out your phone number... :) And turning on IPv6 really isn't any harder than turning on IPv4. It is plug and play with modern CPE devices. Lots of homes don't even know they are running IPv6 in parallel with IPv4. It is usually a non-event. The hard part is convincing the guys and gals on this list to turn it on and to provide a reasonable sized prefix via prefix delegation. You really should be providing a /48 and non of the /56 BS. That way you all can do site based reputation using a /48 which the bigger sites will have. One size fits all has big benefits. Mark -- Mark Andrews, ISC 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: marka at isc.org From nanog at ics-il.net Sat Oct 3 00:52:17 2015 From: nanog at ics-il.net (Mike Hammett) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 19:52:17 -0500 (CDT) Subject: AW: AW: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: <133ff0fed3394045add071349c00fcef@anx-i-dag02.anx.local> Message-ID: <747651278.3187.1443833619804.JavaMail.mhammett@ThunderFuck> I don't expect carriers to be running UBNT\Mikrotik, but the boxes that have been there for 10 years have more than paid for themselves (unless they're a shitty business). It's time to rip and replace with whatever is appropriate for that site. No, I obviously don't think I'm going to change anyone's opinion on the matter (at least not anyone that matters in one of these networks). What I was saying is that my little business with meager means (and revenues) can afford a box to do it. They can too. I don't doubt their situation sucks... but either you fix it or you don't. Time and the rest of the Internet won't wait for them. If their business hasn't boomed, maybe it's time to replace that old 6500 with a 4500x or a QFX-5100 or an x670 or whatever. Your decreased power bill alone will pay it off. If it has boomed, then ten years of revenues should get you whatever the bigger Ciscos are or an MX or whatever the bigger Extremes are. Don't whine about my choices in gear I mentioned. I was just throwing things out there. Old big, new small if no money or old big new big if money. BTW: ROS 7 won't have multi-threaded BGP, but will be optimized to handle full table imports in a significantly reduced time. Oh, and I'm not sure that you couldn't do at least three nines with MT\UBNT. Well, no experience with the EdgeRouters yet. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "J?rgen Jaritsch" To: "Mike Hammett" Cc: "NANOG" Sent: Friday, October 2, 2015 6:11:47 PM Subject: AW: AW: /27 the new /24 Hi Mike, sorry, this was probably sent to quick ... let me please explain my POV of your statement: I want to concentrate my detailed answer only to the backbone situation which is often handled by the 6500/7600 - I guess all of us know that the 6500/7600 has a ton of additional features ... 6-7 years in the past carriers (and/or big ISPs) had only n*1G backbone capacities built with platforms that only had n*100M interfaces another 3-5 years before. Their only invest in these 3-5 years was to add the Gig line cards, install some software updates and add new fibre optics (GBICs). Chassis, cabling, management interfaces etc could be remain in the cabinet - they only had to replace ONE line card (let's say for a few thousand bucks) and with this invest they were able to scale up their capacities. Of course: at some point they also had to replace the SUPs, PSUs, FANs, etc. But the invest in the surrounding stuff is nothing compared with completely new machines. So what all these companies did was buying a machine with an basic configuration and since 10(!) years they are able to expand this machines with (more or less) small and cheap upgrades. In backbone situations the 6500/7600 are definitely at the end of the resources the platform can provide. Most of the carriers (and of course also the bigger ISPs) had a real chance to evaluate a new model/vendor to ran future networks (with possibly also a very good scale-up path and scaling- and upgrade-options). Most of the before mentioned are already in an migration process (let's take a look at Seabone ... they are migration from Cisco to a mix of Juniper and Huawei). Summary: there are strict limitations within the Cisco 6500/7600 platform and these limitations forces the big players to move this boxes out (or move them into other parts of their network). The limitation with 1Mio routes is not a secret and the admins of these boxes decide what they want to use (e.g. 768k routes for IPv4 unicast and 256k routes for MPLS+VRF, etc). If the global routing table reaches the 768k mark (I guess this will happen in the next 12-18months) most of the boxes will crash again (as it happened in Aug 2014). Regarding the words "I have a small router which handles multiple full tables ...": push and pull a few full tables at the same time and you'll see what's happening: the CCRs are SLOW. And why? Because the software is not as good as it could be: the BGP daemon uses only one core of a 36(?) core CPU. Same problem in the past with the EoIP daemon (not sure if they fixed it on the CCRs - they fixed it on x86). Routerboards are nice and cool and to be honest: I'm a big fan of this stuff (also Ubiquiti). But with this boxes you're not able to ran a stable enterprise class carrier network with >99,5% uptime. And that?s thei MAIN reason why "the old shit" is still online :). Hopefully my words explained my hard "you know nothing" blabla ? Best regards J?rgen Jaritsch Head of Network & Infrastructure ANEXIA Internetdienstleistungs GmbH Telefon: +43-5-0556-300 Telefax: +43-5-0556-500 E-Mail: JJaritsch at anexia-it.com Web: http://www.anexia-it.com Anschrift Hauptsitz Klagenfurt: Feldkirchnerstra?e 140, 9020 Klagenfurt Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Alexander Windbichler Firmenbuch: FN 289918a | Gerichtsstand: Klagenfurt | UID-Nummer: AT U63216601 -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces at nanog.org] Im Auftrag von Mike Hammett Gesendet: Freitag, 02. Oktober 2015 21:33 Cc: NANOG Betreff: Re: AW: /27 the new /24 Hrm. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "J?rgen Jaritsch" To: "Mike Hammett" , "NANOG" Sent: Friday, October 2, 2015 2:25:10 PM Subject: AW: /27 the new /24 > Stop using old shit. Sorry, but the truth is: you have no idea about how earning revenue works and you obviously also have no idea about carrier grade networks. J?rgen Jaritsch Head of Network & Infrastructure ANEXIA Internetdienstleistungs GmbH Telefon: +43-5-0556-300 Telefax: +43-5-0556-500 E-Mail: JJaritsch at anexia-it.com Web: http://www.anexia-it.com Anschrift Hauptsitz Klagenfurt: Feldkirchnerstra?e 140, 9020 Klagenfurt Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Alexander Windbichler Firmenbuch: FN 289918a | Gerichtsstand: Klagenfurt | UID-Nummer: AT U63216601 -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces at nanog.org] Im Auftrag von Mike Hammett Gesendet: Freitag, 02. Oktober 2015 20:38 An: NANOG Betreff: Re: /27 the new /24 Chances are the revenue passing scales to some degree as well. Small business with small bandwidth needs buys small and has small revenue. Big business with big bandwidth needs buys big and has big revenue to support big router. I can think of no reason why ten years goes by and you haven't had a need to throw out the old network for new. If your business hasn't scaled with the times, then you need to get rid of your Cat 6500 and get something more power, space, heat, etc. efficient. I saw someone replace a stack of Mikrotik CCRs with a pair of old Cisco routers. I don't know what they were at the moment, but they had GBICs, so they weren't exactly new. Each router had two 2500w power supplies. They'll be worse in every way (other than *possibly* BGP convergence). The old setup consumed at most 300 watts. The new setup requires $500/month in power... and is worse. Stop using old shit. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Herrin" To: "Mike Hammett" Cc: "NANOG" Sent: Friday, October 2, 2015 1:09:16 PM Subject: Re: /27 the new /24 On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 11:50 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: > How many routers out there have this limitation? A $100 router > I bought ten years ago could manage many full tables. If > someone's network can't match that today, should I really have > any pity for them? Hi Mike, The technology doesn't work the way you think it does. Or more precisely, it only works the way you think it does on small (cheap) end-user routers. Those routers do everything in software on a general-purpose CPU using radix tries for the forwarding table (FIB). They don't have to (and can't) handle both high data rates and large routing tables at the same time. For a better understanding how the big iron works, check out https://www.pagiamtzis.com/cam/camintro/ . You'll occasionally see folks here talk about TCAM. This stands for Ternary Content Addressable Memory. It's a special circuit, different from DRAM and SRAM, used by most (but not all) big iron routers. The TCAM permits an O(1) route lookup instead of an O(log n) lookup. The architectural differences which balloon from there move the router cost from your $100 router into the hundreds of thousands of dollars. Your BGP advertisement doesn't just have to be carried on your $100 router. It also has to be carried on the half-million-dollar routers. That makes it expensive. Though out of date, this paper should help you better understand the systemic cost of a BGP route advertisement: http://bill.herrin.us/network/bgpcost.html Regards, Bill Herrin -- William Herrin ................ herrin at dirtside.com bill at herrin.us Owner, Dirtside Systems ......... Web: From dmitry at interhost.net Sat Oct 3 00:44:53 2015 From: dmitry at interhost.net (Dmitry Sherman) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2015 00:44:53 +0000 Subject: wanted: tool for traffic generation / characteristics / monitoring In-Reply-To: References: <560D3803.7020603@kit.edu> <20151001201119.GA27584@Mail.DDoS-Mitigator.net>, Message-ID: <44BD631D-4EA6-442F-9A69-5256B1C201F5@interhost.net> Also check Shunra Best regards, Dmitry Sherman Interhost Networks www.interhost.co.il Dmitry at interhost.net Mob: 054-3181182 Sent from Steve's creature On 2 ????? 2015, at 17:28, Antonio Ojea Garcia > wrote: I guess you are looking for something like this http://traffic.comics.unina.it/software/ITG/ D-ITG (Distributed Internet Traffic Generator) is a platform capable to produce traffic at packet level accurately replicating appropriate stochastic processes for both IDT (*Inter Departure Time*) and PS (*Packet Size*) random variables (*exponential, uniform, cauchy, normal, pareto, ...*). 2015-10-01 22:11 GMT+02:00 alvin nanog >: hi matthias On 10/01/15 at 03:41pm, Matthias Flittner wrote: Dear colleagues, Currently we are looking for a magic tool with which it is possible to generate specific (realistic) traffic patterns between client and server to analyze (monitor) traffic characteristics (jitter, delay, inter arrival times, etc.). generating traffic and monitoring traffic is usually not done by the same apps .... there's hundreds of monitoring apps and hundreds of traffic generators delay is done very nicely by dummynet in FreeBSD or (untested by me ) with NS3 in linux i don't understand simulating jitter, but, one can always use "delay + random number" It would be good if that wanted tool is not only able to generate different traffic patterns if you want to play with the headers ... that'd imply playing with nmap/hping3/socat and dozens of other equivalent apps if you're just trying to flood the wire ... nc/socat/iperf etc but also is able to collect different traffic metrics over time. So that it is possible to create catchy plots. :) "what metrics" you want to collect and how to you want to see it would dictate which apps you'd be using - tcp queue/buffers - dropped packets - delays - retries - udp vs tcp vs icmp vs ... - stuff ... xmit/recv buffers in the hardware, default buffers in the OS and buffers in the software apps must all be tuned to the same gigE or 10gigE speeds otherwise, whacky stuff will happen for "catchy plots", you'd want gnuplot so you can (infinitely) zoom in into the section you want to see dot-by-dot for big picture ... netstat, ntop, (not much info) mrtg, etc, etc big list of apps Packet-Craft.net/Apps Any hints or links would be greatly appreciated. if you're a proficient python'er, you'd probably like scapy which can do everything you'd need to customize any packet magic pixie dust alvin # # Packet-Craft.net/Apps # This mail was received via PineApp Mail-SeCure System. From cb.list6 at gmail.com Sat Oct 3 01:25:42 2015 From: cb.list6 at gmail.com (Ca By) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 18:25:42 -0700 Subject: How to force rapid ipv6 adoption In-Reply-To: References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560D9DD0.2030904@Janoszka.pl> <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE@delong.com> <20151001222813.B9469391102B@rock.dv.isc.org> <20151001232613.GD123100@rootmail.cc.le.ac.uk> <55A3A845-751A-4F21-BC6E-8549DD7BEFCB@delong.com> <9FB08507-F739-40CA-AA98-6D35B61F7C95@delong.com> <9591EA37-1A36-42AF-B5DC-E9FA737D6CE2@delong.com> Message-ID: On Friday, October 2, 2015, Baldur Norddahl wrote: > Why are some people here asserting that IPv6 failed when it looks like it > is actually taking off pretty good right now? > > https://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics.html > > Jan 2013 about 1% > Jan 2014 about 2.5% > Jan 2015 about 5% > It is already past 9% so we will be at least at 10% by Jan 2016. > > Looks like a good exponential growth to me. > > The numbers for USA are even better at 21%. > > Traffic volume is also taking off: > > https://www.akamai.com/us/en/solutions/intelligent-platform/visualizing-akamai/ipv6-traffic-volume.jsp > > I will bet you good money that in a not too distant future we will see that > IPv6 moves more bytes than IPv4. > > For some of us, IPv6 is already more bytes than IPv4. Youtube and netflix and fb will push the bytes if the users request it. CB > The IPv6 protocol is 17 years so it failed argument is meaningless. Maybe > we needed IPv4 exhaustion before IPv6 could take off. No matter the reason, > it is happening now. > > Regards, > > Baldur > From randy at psg.com Sat Oct 3 02:43:32 2015 From: randy at psg.com (Randy Bush) Date: Fri, 02 Oct 2015 21:43:32 -0500 Subject: Quick Update on the North American BCOP Efforts In-Reply-To: <42456252.16999.1443626280346.JavaMail.mhammett@ThunderFuck> References: <42456252.16999.1443626280346.JavaMail.mhammett@ThunderFuck> Message-ID: > If NANOG isn't developing and publishing BCOPs, what's the point of > NANOG other than a mailing list? what more point do you need? it has been a very successful and useful mailing list for a few decades. ripe has been the ops document repo since before this mailing list existed. it works well. half-assed jealousy will get us nowhere. randy From randy at psg.com Sat Oct 3 02:47:42 2015 From: randy at psg.com (Randy Bush) Date: Fri, 02 Oct 2015 21:47:42 -0500 Subject: AW: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: <1516233395.2818.1443814446880.JavaMail.mhammett@ThunderFuck> References: <5280b516a2fc4179a92583c656455616@anx-i-dag02.anx.local> <1516233395.2818.1443814446880.JavaMail.mhammett@ThunderFuck> Message-ID: > From: "J?rgen Jaritsch" > To: "Mike Hammett" , "NANOG" >> Stop using old shit. > Sorry, but the truth is: you have no idea about how earning revenue > works and you obviously also have no idea about carrier grade > networks. bingo! From randy at psg.com Sat Oct 3 02:51:26 2015 From: randy at psg.com (Randy Bush) Date: Fri, 02 Oct 2015 21:51:26 -0500 Subject: How to force rapid ipv6 adoption In-Reply-To: References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560D9DD0.2030904@Janoszka.pl> <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE@delong.com> <20151001222813.B9469391102B@rock.dv.isc.org> <20151001232613.GD123100@rootmail.cc.le.ac.uk> <55A3A845-751A-4F21-BC6E-8549DD7BEFCB@delong.com> <9FB08507-F739-40CA-AA98-6D35B61F7C95@delong.com> <9591EA37-1A36-42AF-B5DC-E9FA737D6CE2@delong.com> Message-ID: >> None of them does what you propose ? Smooth seamless communication between >> an IPv4-only host and an IPv6-only host. > > i view this point/question as an assertion by owen as follows: > > "it was never possible to design a smooth transition and that's why we > gave up on it." > > furthermore, it's a also the following assertion: > > "it was never possible to expand our address space while allowing for > an actual migration." > > if you believe that, then you end up in advocacy land. if you don't > believe that but you see lots of people who gave up on the design > process early, then you understand why we're here. indeed. a tragedy. randy From nanog at ics-il.net Sat Oct 3 02:53:13 2015 From: nanog at ics-il.net (Mike Hammett) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 21:53:13 -0500 (CDT) Subject: AW: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: <5280b516a2fc4179a92583c656455616@anx-i-dag02.anx.local> Message-ID: <387312208.3306.1443840866070.JavaMail.mhammett@ThunderFuck> A better truth may be that I have no idea about bureaucracies... which I'll happily admit to. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "J?rgen Jaritsch" To: "Mike Hammett" , "NANOG" Sent: Friday, October 2, 2015 2:25:10 PM Subject: AW: /27 the new /24 > Stop using old shit. Sorry, but the truth is: you have no idea about how earning revenue works and you obviously also have no idea about carrier grade networks. J?rgen Jaritsch Head of Network & Infrastructure ANEXIA Internetdienstleistungs GmbH Telefon: +43-5-0556-300 Telefax: +43-5-0556-500 E-Mail: JJaritsch at anexia-it.com Web: http://www.anexia-it.com Anschrift Hauptsitz Klagenfurt: Feldkirchnerstra?e 140, 9020 Klagenfurt Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Alexander Windbichler Firmenbuch: FN 289918a | Gerichtsstand: Klagenfurt | UID-Nummer: AT U63216601 -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces at nanog.org] Im Auftrag von Mike Hammett Gesendet: Freitag, 02. Oktober 2015 20:38 An: NANOG Betreff: Re: /27 the new /24 Chances are the revenue passing scales to some degree as well. Small business with small bandwidth needs buys small and has small revenue. Big business with big bandwidth needs buys big and has big revenue to support big router. I can think of no reason why ten years goes by and you haven't had a need to throw out the old network for new. If your business hasn't scaled with the times, then you need to get rid of your Cat 6500 and get something more power, space, heat, etc. efficient. I saw someone replace a stack of Mikrotik CCRs with a pair of old Cisco routers. I don't know what they were at the moment, but they had GBICs, so they weren't exactly new. Each router had two 2500w power supplies. They'll be worse in every way (other than *possibly* BGP convergence). The old setup consumed at most 300 watts. The new setup requires $500/month in power... and is worse. Stop using old shit. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Herrin" To: "Mike Hammett" Cc: "NANOG" Sent: Friday, October 2, 2015 1:09:16 PM Subject: Re: /27 the new /24 On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 11:50 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: > How many routers out there have this limitation? A $100 router > I bought ten years ago could manage many full tables. If > someone's network can't match that today, should I really have > any pity for them? Hi Mike, The technology doesn't work the way you think it does. Or more precisely, it only works the way you think it does on small (cheap) end-user routers. Those routers do everything in software on a general-purpose CPU using radix tries for the forwarding table (FIB). They don't have to (and can't) handle both high data rates and large routing tables at the same time. For a better understanding how the big iron works, check out https://www.pagiamtzis.com/cam/camintro/ . You'll occasionally see folks here talk about TCAM. This stands for Ternary Content Addressable Memory. It's a special circuit, different from DRAM and SRAM, used by most (but not all) big iron routers. The TCAM permits an O(1) route lookup instead of an O(log n) lookup. The architectural differences which balloon from there move the router cost from your $100 router into the hundreds of thousands of dollars. Your BGP advertisement doesn't just have to be carried on your $100 router. It also has to be carried on the half-million-dollar routers. That makes it expensive. Though out of date, this paper should help you better understand the systemic cost of a BGP route advertisement: http://bill.herrin.us/network/bgpcost.html Regards, Bill Herrin -- William Herrin ................ herrin at dirtside.com bill at herrin.us Owner, Dirtside Systems ......... Web: From joesox at gmail.com Sat Oct 3 03:04:50 2015 From: joesox at gmail.com (JoeSox) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 20:04:50 -0700 Subject: Bandwidth estimation question Message-ID: I am trying to figure out if our hosting plan has enough bandwidth (currently at 15Mbps, our average webpage is 300kb). One of our members may win a peace prize for scientific work so there may be a media blitz. Does anyone know how much traffic a 'media blitz' (for lack of a better word) generates? I can bump it to 50Mbps but I am not even sure if that is enough. -- Thank You, Joe From tsands at rackspace.com Sat Oct 3 03:45:36 2015 From: tsands at rackspace.com (Tom Sands) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2015 03:45:36 +0000 Subject: Bandwidth estimation question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: There is no telling how big a flash crowd might be. I've see them jump in the Gbps range and not Mbps. Sent from my iPhone > On Oct 2, 2015, at 10:06 PM, JoeSox wrote: > > I am trying to figure out if our hosting plan has enough bandwidth > (currently at 15Mbps, our average webpage is 300kb). > One of our members may win a peace prize for scientific work so there may > be a media blitz. > Does anyone know how much traffic a 'media blitz' (for lack of a better > word) generates? > I can bump it to 50Mbps but I am not even sure if that is enough. > > -- > Thank You, Joe From ian.clark at dreamhost.com Sat Oct 3 05:06:03 2015 From: ian.clark at dreamhost.com (Ian Clark) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 22:06:03 -0700 Subject: Bandwidth estimation question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: One of our customers went from near zero traffic to requiring a 2Gbps bond over the course of a few days, so just another +1 that it can be in the Gbps range when one of your customers explodes, especially if it's a media rich site without CDN. On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 8:45 PM, Tom Sands wrote: > > There is no telling how big a flash crowd might be. I've see them jump in the Gbps range and not Mbps. > > > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Oct 2, 2015, at 10:06 PM, JoeSox wrote: >> >> I am trying to figure out if our hosting plan has enough bandwidth >> (currently at 15Mbps, our average webpage is 300kb). >> One of our members may win a peace prize for scientific work so there may >> be a media blitz. >> Does anyone know how much traffic a 'media blitz' (for lack of a better >> word) generates? >> I can bump it to 50Mbps but I am not even sure if that is enough. >> >> -- >> Thank You, Joe -- Ian Clark Network Engineer DreamHost m: 818.795.2216 From maxtul at netassist.ua Sat Oct 3 07:08:25 2015 From: maxtul at netassist.ua (Max Tulyev) Date: Sat, 03 Oct 2015 10:08:25 +0300 Subject: AW: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: <451448fb728a45818f81792a3268e41d@anx-i-dag02.anx.local> References: <80BBB162-5EB8-49F9-AF94-98D8B4C25DCB@mtin.net> <451448fb728a45818f81792a3268e41d@anx-i-dag02.anx.local> Message-ID: <560F7EE9.4070206@netassist.ua> Which routers? DIR-300 with OpenWRT/Quagga? :) I think all above-the-trash level routers supports >1M routes, isn't it? On 02.10.15 17:45, J?rgen Jaritsch wrote: > Hi, > > this would at least help to get rid of many old routing engines around the world :) ... or people would keep their "learn nothing smaller than /24" filters in place. Also an option - but not for companies who act as an IP transit provider. > > > best regards > > J?rgen Jaritsch > Head of Network & Infrastructure > > ANEXIA Internetdienstleistungs GmbH > > Telefon: +43-5-0556-300 > Telefax: +43-5-0556-500 > > E-Mail: JJaritsch at anexia-it.com > Web: http://www.anexia-it.com > > Anschrift Hauptsitz Klagenfurt: Feldkirchnerstra?e 140, 9020 Klagenfurt > Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Alexander Windbichler > Firmenbuch: FN 289918a | Gerichtsstand: Klagenfurt | UID-Nummer: AT U63216601 > > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces at nanog.org] Im Auftrag von Justin Wilson - MTIN > Gesendet: Freitag, 02. Oktober 2015 16:32 > An: NANOG > Betreff: /27 the new /24 > > I was in a discussion the other day and several Tier2 providers were talking about the idea of adjusting their BGP filters to accept prefixes smaller than a /24. A few were saying they thought about going down to as small as a /27. This was mainly due to more networks coming online and not having even a /24 of IPv4 space. The first argument is against this is the potential bloat the global routing table could have. Many folks have worked hard for years to summarize and such. others were saying they would do a /26 or bigger. > > However, what do we do about the new networks which want to do BGP but only can get small allocations from someone (either a RIR or one of their upstreams)? > > Just throwing that out there. Seems like an interesting discussion. > > > Justin Wilson > j2sw at mtin.net > > --- > http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO > xISP Solutions- Consulting ? Data Centers - Bandwidth > > http://www.midwest-ix.com COO/Chairman > Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric > From wwaites at tardis.ed.ac.uk Sat Oct 3 08:23:49 2015 From: wwaites at tardis.ed.ac.uk (William Waites) Date: Sat, 03 Oct 2015 09:23:49 +0100 (BST) Subject: Mikrotik in the DFZ (Was Re: AW: AW: /27 the new /24) In-Reply-To: <133ff0fed3394045add071349c00fcef@anx-i-dag02.anx.local> References: <5280b516a2fc4179a92583c656455616@anx-i-dag02.anx.local> <1516233395.2818.1443814446880.JavaMail.mhammett@ThunderFuck> <133ff0fed3394045add071349c00fcef@anx-i-dag02.anx.local> Message-ID: <20151003.092349.2236946013734960508.wwaites@tardis.ed.ac.uk> On Fri, 2 Oct 2015 23:11:47 +0000, J?rgen Jaritsch said: > Regarding the words "I have a small router which handles > multiple full tables ...": push and pull a few full tables at > the same time and you'll see what's happening: the CCRs are > SLOW. And why? Because the software is not as good as it could > be: the BGP daemon uses only one core of a 36(?) core CPU. To expand on this, the problem is worse than being single-threaded. I had one of these in the lab and fed it 2x full tables. Sure it wasn't the fastest at accepting them but then I noticed that even in steady state one of the CPUs was pegged. What was happening -- and this was confirmed by Mikrotik -- was that it was recalculating the *entire* FIB for each update. The general background noise of announce / withdraw messages means it is doing this all the time. Any churn and it would have a very hard time. There are other serious bugs such as not doing recursive next hop lookup for IPv6 (it does for IPv4). This makes them unuseable as BGP routers even for partial tables with most non-trivial iBGP topologies. All of which may be fixed one day in version 7 of their operating system, which will inevitably have many bugs as any software project .0 release will, so we'll have to wait for 7.x for it to be reasonably safe to use. That said, we use a lot of Mikrotik kit for our rural networks. They're weird and quirky but you can't beat them on price, port density and power consumption. With 16 ports and 36 cores surely they should be capable of pushing several Gbps of traffic with a few full tables. I wish it were possible today to run different software on their larger boxes. If some like-minded small providers wanted to get together with us to fund a FreeBSD port to the CCR routers that would be great. Please contact me off-list if you are interested in this, I'll coordinate. As it is we don't let them anywhere near the DFZ, that's done with PCs running FreeBSD and BIRD which can easily do the job but is still an order of magnitude more expensive (and an order of magnitude less expensive than what you need if you want 10s of Gbps). -w -- William Waites | School of Informatics http://tardis.ed.ac.uk/~wwaites/ | University of Edinburgh https://hubs.net.uk/ | HUBS AS60241 The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in Scotland, with registration number SC005336. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jj at anexia.at Sat Oct 3 08:33:24 2015 From: jj at anexia.at (=?Windows-1252?Q?J=FCrgen_Jaritsch?=) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2015 08:33:24 +0000 Subject: AW: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: <560F7EE9.4070206@netassist.ua> References: <80BBB162-5EB8-49F9-AF94-98D8B4C25DCB@mtin.net> <451448fb728a45818f81792a3268e41d@anx-i-dag02.anx.local>, <560F7EE9.4070206@netassist.ua> Message-ID: As mentioned before: even the new SUP2T from Cisco is limited to 1Mio routes ... There are MANY other vendors with the same limitations: Juniper, Brocade, etc And the solt equipment is not the 99USD trash from the super market at the corner ... J?rgen Jaritsch Head of Network & Infrastructure ANEXIA Internetdienstleistungs GmbH Telefon: +43-5-0556-300 Telefax: +43-5-0556-500 E-Mail: jj at anexia.at Web: http://www.anexia.at Anschrift Hauptsitz Klagenfurt: Feldkirchnerstra?e 140, 9020 Klagenfurt Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Alexander Windbichler Firmenbuch: FN 289918a | Gerichtsstand: Klagenfurt | UID-Nummer: AT U63216601 -----Original Message----- From: Max Tulyev [maxtul at netassist.ua] Received: Samstag, 03 Okt. 2015, 9:11 To: nanog at nanog.org [nanog at nanog.org] Subject: Re: AW: /27 the new /24 Which routers? DIR-300 with OpenWRT/Quagga? :) I think all above-the-trash level routers supports >1M routes, isn't it? On 02.10.15 17:45, J?rgen Jaritsch wrote: > Hi, > > this would at least help to get rid of many old routing engines around the world :) ... or people would keep their "learn nothing smaller than /24" filters in place. Also an option - but not for companies who act as an IP transit provider. > > > best regards > > J?rgen Jaritsch > Head of Network & Infrastructure > > ANEXIA Internetdienstleistungs GmbH > > Telefon: +43-5-0556-300 > Telefax: +43-5-0556-500 > > E-Mail: JJaritsch at anexia-it.com > Web: http://www.anexia-it.com > > Anschrift Hauptsitz Klagenfurt: Feldkirchnerstra?e 140, 9020 Klagenfurt > Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Alexander Windbichler > Firmenbuch: FN 289918a | Gerichtsstand: Klagenfurt | UID-Nummer: AT U63216601 > > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces at nanog.org] Im Auftrag von Justin Wilson - MTIN > Gesendet: Freitag, 02. Oktober 2015 16:32 > An: NANOG > Betreff: /27 the new /24 > > I was in a discussion the other day and several Tier2 providers were talking about the idea of adjusting their BGP filters to accept prefixes smaller than a /24. A few were saying they thought about going down to as small as a /27. This was mainly due to more networks coming online and not having even a /24 of IPv4 space. The first argument is against this is the potential bloat the global routing table could have. Many folks have worked hard for years to summarize and such. others were saying they would do a /26 or bigger. > > However, what do we do about the new networks which want to do BGP but only can get small allocations from someone (either a RIR or one of their upstreams)? > > Just throwing that out there. Seems like an interesting discussion. > > > Justin Wilson > j2sw at mtin.net > > --- > http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO > xISP Solutions- Consulting ? Data Centers - Bandwidth > > http://www.midwest-ix.com COO/Chairman > Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric > From youssef at 720.fr Sat Oct 3 09:03:27 2015 From: youssef at 720.fr (Youssef Bengelloun-Zahr) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2015 11:03:27 +0200 Subject: AW: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: References: <80BBB162-5EB8-49F9-AF94-98D8B4C25DCB@mtin.net> <451448fb728a45818f81792a3268e41d@anx-i-dag02.anx.local> <560F7EE9.4070206@netassist.ua> Message-ID: Hi, FYI, newer linecard models from BROCADE can hold 2 million routes. Probably others can do that now too. Disclaimer : I'm not working for them or defending them, just setting an information straight. My 2 cents. > Le 3 oct. 2015 ? 10:33, J?rgen Jaritsch a ?crit : > > As mentioned before: even the new SUP2T from Cisco is limited to 1Mio routes ... > > There are MANY other vendors with the same limitations: Juniper, Brocade, etc > > And the solt equipment is not the 99USD trash from the super market at the corner ... > > > J?rgen Jaritsch > Head of Network & Infrastructure > > ANEXIA Internetdienstleistungs GmbH > > Telefon: +43-5-0556-300 > Telefax: +43-5-0556-500 > > E-Mail: jj at anexia.at > Web: http://www.anexia.at > > Anschrift Hauptsitz Klagenfurt: Feldkirchnerstra?e 140, 9020 Klagenfurt > Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Alexander Windbichler > Firmenbuch: FN 289918a | Gerichtsstand: Klagenfurt | UID-Nummer: AT U63216601 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Max Tulyev [maxtul at netassist.ua] > Received: Samstag, 03 Okt. 2015, 9:11 > To: nanog at nanog.org [nanog at nanog.org] > Subject: Re: AW: /27 the new /24 > > Which routers? DIR-300 with OpenWRT/Quagga? :) > > I think all above-the-trash level routers supports >1M routes, isn't it? > >> On 02.10.15 17:45, J?rgen Jaritsch wrote: >> Hi, >> >> this would at least help to get rid of many old routing engines around the world :) ... or people would keep their "learn nothing smaller than /24" filters in place. Also an option - but not for companies who act as an IP transit provider. >> >> >> best regards >> >> J?rgen Jaritsch >> Head of Network & Infrastructure >> >> ANEXIA Internetdienstleistungs GmbH >> >> Telefon: +43-5-0556-300 >> Telefax: +43-5-0556-500 >> >> E-Mail: JJaritsch at anexia-it.com >> Web: http://www.anexia-it.com >> >> Anschrift Hauptsitz Klagenfurt: Feldkirchnerstra?e 140, 9020 Klagenfurt >> Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Alexander Windbichler >> Firmenbuch: FN 289918a | Gerichtsstand: Klagenfurt | UID-Nummer: AT U63216601 >> >> >> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- >> Von: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces at nanog.org] Im Auftrag von Justin Wilson - MTIN >> Gesendet: Freitag, 02. Oktober 2015 16:32 >> An: NANOG >> Betreff: /27 the new /24 >> >> I was in a discussion the other day and several Tier2 providers were talking about the idea of adjusting their BGP filters to accept prefixes smaller than a /24. A few were saying they thought about going down to as small as a /27. This was mainly due to more networks coming online and not having even a /24 of IPv4 space. The first argument is against this is the potential bloat the global routing table could have. Many folks have worked hard for years to summarize and such. others were saying they would do a /26 or bigger. >> >> However, what do we do about the new networks which want to do BGP but only can get small allocations from someone (either a RIR or one of their upstreams)? >> >> Just throwing that out there. Seems like an interesting discussion. >> >> >> Justin Wilson >> j2sw at mtin.net >> >> --- >> http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO >> xISP Solutions- Consulting ? Data Centers - Bandwidth >> >> http://www.midwest-ix.com COO/Chairman >> Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric > From jj at anexia.at Sat Oct 3 09:04:47 2015 From: jj at anexia.at (=?utf-8?B?SsO8cmdlbiBKYXJpdHNjaA==?=) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2015 09:04:47 +0000 Subject: AW: AW: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: References: <80BBB162-5EB8-49F9-AF94-98D8B4C25DCB@mtin.net> <451448fb728a45818f81792a3268e41d@anx-i-dag02.anx.local> <560F7EE9.4070206@netassist.ua> Message-ID: <04c9f5583e7945dd92d6948c4b2d2769@anx-i-dag02.anx.local> Hi, yeah, of course there are newer models ... I mentioned the older ones (from the past 3-5 years). There are also Cisco routers available that are able to handle more than 1 Mio routes - of course also from Juniper. J?rgen Jaritsch Head of Network & Infrastructure ANEXIA Internetdienstleistungs GmbH Telefon: +43-5-0556-300 Telefax: +43-5-0556-500 E-Mail: JJaritsch at anexia-it.com Web: http://www.anexia-it.com Anschrift Hauptsitz Klagenfurt: Feldkirchnerstra?e 140, 9020 Klagenfurt Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Alexander Windbichler Firmenbuch: FN 289918a | Gerichtsstand: Klagenfurt | UID-Nummer: AT U63216601 -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: Youssef Bengelloun-Zahr [mailto:youssef at 720.fr] Gesendet: Samstag, 03. Oktober 2015 11:03 An: J?rgen Jaritsch Cc: nanog at nanog.org; maxtul at netassist.ua Betreff: Re: AW: /27 the new /24 Hi, FYI, newer linecard models from BROCADE can hold 2 million routes. Probably others can do that now too. Disclaimer : I'm not working for them or defending them, just setting an information straight. My 2 cents. > Le 3 oct. 2015 ? 10:33, J?rgen Jaritsch a ?crit : > > As mentioned before: even the new SUP2T from Cisco is limited to 1Mio routes ... > > There are MANY other vendors with the same limitations: Juniper, Brocade, etc > > And the solt equipment is not the 99USD trash from the super market at the corner ... > > > J?rgen Jaritsch > Head of Network & Infrastructure > > ANEXIA Internetdienstleistungs GmbH > > Telefon: +43-5-0556-300 > Telefax: +43-5-0556-500 > > E-Mail: jj at anexia.at > Web: http://www.anexia.at > > Anschrift Hauptsitz Klagenfurt: Feldkirchnerstra?e 140, 9020 Klagenfurt > Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Alexander Windbichler > Firmenbuch: FN 289918a | Gerichtsstand: Klagenfurt | UID-Nummer: AT U63216601 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Max Tulyev [maxtul at netassist.ua] > Received: Samstag, 03 Okt. 2015, 9:11 > To: nanog at nanog.org [nanog at nanog.org] > Subject: Re: AW: /27 the new /24 > > Which routers? DIR-300 with OpenWRT/Quagga? :) > > I think all above-the-trash level routers supports >1M routes, isn't it? > >> On 02.10.15 17:45, J?rgen Jaritsch wrote: >> Hi, >> >> this would at least help to get rid of many old routing engines around the world :) ... or people would keep their "learn nothing smaller than /24" filters in place. Also an option - but not for companies who act as an IP transit provider. >> >> >> best regards >> >> J?rgen Jaritsch >> Head of Network & Infrastructure >> >> ANEXIA Internetdienstleistungs GmbH >> >> Telefon: +43-5-0556-300 >> Telefax: +43-5-0556-500 >> >> E-Mail: JJaritsch at anexia-it.com >> Web: http://www.anexia-it.com >> >> Anschrift Hauptsitz Klagenfurt: Feldkirchnerstra?e 140, 9020 Klagenfurt >> Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Alexander Windbichler >> Firmenbuch: FN 289918a | Gerichtsstand: Klagenfurt | UID-Nummer: AT U63216601 >> >> >> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- >> Von: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces at nanog.org] Im Auftrag von Justin Wilson - MTIN >> Gesendet: Freitag, 02. Oktober 2015 16:32 >> An: NANOG >> Betreff: /27 the new /24 >> >> I was in a discussion the other day and several Tier2 providers were talking about the idea of adjusting their BGP filters to accept prefixes smaller than a /24. A few were saying they thought about going down to as small as a /27. This was mainly due to more networks coming online and not having even a /24 of IPv4 space. The first argument is against this is the potential bloat the global routing table could have. Many folks have worked hard for years to summarize and such. others were saying they would do a /26 or bigger. >> >> However, what do we do about the new networks which want to do BGP but only can get small allocations from someone (either a RIR or one of their upstreams)? >> >> Just throwing that out there. Seems like an interesting discussion. >> >> >> Justin Wilson >> j2sw at mtin.net >> >> --- >> http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO >> xISP Solutions- Consulting ? Data Centers - Bandwidth >> >> http://www.midwest-ix.com COO/Chairman >> Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric > From jj at anexia.at Sat Oct 3 09:32:11 2015 From: jj at anexia.at (=?utf-8?B?SsO8cmdlbiBKYXJpdHNjaA==?=) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2015 09:32:11 +0000 Subject: AW: AW: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: <387312208.3306.1443840866070.JavaMail.mhammett@ThunderFuck> References: <5280b516a2fc4179a92583c656455616@anx-i-dag02.anx.local> <387312208.3306.1443840866070.JavaMail.mhammett@ThunderFuck> Message-ID: <8f110d9fb0e1473487ae3b42837314f3@anx-i-dag02.anx.local> Hi Mike, it's not a bureaucracy problem ... if you're a big player and you have to decide about a 2-3 Mio invest to upgrade only a few of your POPs (and let's say you have hundreds of POPs) it will be hard to find the "right" decision. Some questions these decision makers have to think about: #) What are the future plans for this POP? #) How upgradeable / expandable is the new equipment? #) Does our engineers know everything they need to run & debug & fix this new equipment? #) TOC incl support contract over the complete lifetime? #) Product life cycle? (Is it outdated in two years??) #) Will we keep spare parts onsite or nearby? #) How long needs the vendor to deliver everything I need? #) Is it compatible with all the already installed equipment? #) Migration plan to move existing customers to the new equipment? There are a ton of additional questions ... but I guess I pointed out some of the most important. Big players can't only calculate the price of the equipment - most of the time all the surrounding stuff (installation, new cabinets, migrations, training of engineers, etc) is producing 0,5x to 1x of the equipment costs. To get some easy numbers: take the discounted price (no one pays list prices ...) of an equipment and take this price x2 => that will be a realistic number to get the box onsite, up and running. It's not all the time something simple like a router with 20 patch cords :(. Best regards J?rgen Jaritsch Head of Network & Infrastructure ANEXIA Internetdienstleistungs GmbH Telefon: +43-5-0556-300 Telefax: +43-5-0556-500 E-Mail: JJaritsch at anexia-it.com Web: http://www.anexia-it.com Anschrift Hauptsitz Klagenfurt: Feldkirchnerstra?e 140, 9020 Klagenfurt Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Alexander Windbichler Firmenbuch: FN 289918a | Gerichtsstand: Klagenfurt | UID-Nummer: AT U63216601 -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces at nanog.org] Im Auftrag von Mike Hammett Gesendet: Samstag, 03. Oktober 2015 04:53 Cc: NANOG Betreff: Re: AW: /27 the new /24 A better truth may be that I have no idea about bureaucracies... which I'll happily admit to. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "J?rgen Jaritsch" To: "Mike Hammett" , "NANOG" Sent: Friday, October 2, 2015 2:25:10 PM Subject: AW: /27 the new /24 > Stop using old shit. Sorry, but the truth is: you have no idea about how earning revenue works and you obviously also have no idea about carrier grade networks. J?rgen Jaritsch Head of Network & Infrastructure ANEXIA Internetdienstleistungs GmbH Telefon: +43-5-0556-300 Telefax: +43-5-0556-500 E-Mail: JJaritsch at anexia-it.com Web: http://www.anexia-it.com Anschrift Hauptsitz Klagenfurt: Feldkirchnerstra?e 140, 9020 Klagenfurt Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Alexander Windbichler Firmenbuch: FN 289918a | Gerichtsstand: Klagenfurt | UID-Nummer: AT U63216601 -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces at nanog.org] Im Auftrag von Mike Hammett Gesendet: Freitag, 02. Oktober 2015 20:38 An: NANOG Betreff: Re: /27 the new /24 Chances are the revenue passing scales to some degree as well. Small business with small bandwidth needs buys small and has small revenue. Big business with big bandwidth needs buys big and has big revenue to support big router. I can think of no reason why ten years goes by and you haven't had a need to throw out the old network for new. If your business hasn't scaled with the times, then you need to get rid of your Cat 6500 and get something more power, space, heat, etc. efficient. I saw someone replace a stack of Mikrotik CCRs with a pair of old Cisco routers. I don't know what they were at the moment, but they had GBICs, so they weren't exactly new. Each router had two 2500w power supplies. They'll be worse in every way (other than *possibly* BGP convergence). The old setup consumed at most 300 watts. The new setup requires $500/month in power... and is worse. Stop using old shit. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Herrin" To: "Mike Hammett" Cc: "NANOG" Sent: Friday, October 2, 2015 1:09:16 PM Subject: Re: /27 the new /24 On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 11:50 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: > How many routers out there have this limitation? A $100 router > I bought ten years ago could manage many full tables. If > someone's network can't match that today, should I really have > any pity for them? Hi Mike, The technology doesn't work the way you think it does. Or more precisely, it only works the way you think it does on small (cheap) end-user routers. Those routers do everything in software on a general-purpose CPU using radix tries for the forwarding table (FIB). They don't have to (and can't) handle both high data rates and large routing tables at the same time. For a better understanding how the big iron works, check out https://www.pagiamtzis.com/cam/camintro/ . You'll occasionally see folks here talk about TCAM. This stands for Ternary Content Addressable Memory. It's a special circuit, different from DRAM and SRAM, used by most (but not all) big iron routers. The TCAM permits an O(1) route lookup instead of an O(log n) lookup. The architectural differences which balloon from there move the router cost from your $100 router into the hundreds of thousands of dollars. Your BGP advertisement doesn't just have to be carried on your $100 router. It also has to be carried on the half-million-dollar routers. That makes it expensive. Though out of date, this paper should help you better understand the systemic cost of a BGP route advertisement: http://bill.herrin.us/network/bgpcost.html Regards, Bill Herrin -- William Herrin ................ herrin at dirtside.com bill at herrin.us Owner, Dirtside Systems ......... Web: From baldur.norddahl at gmail.com Sat Oct 3 10:42:01 2015 From: baldur.norddahl at gmail.com (Baldur Norddahl) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2015 12:42:01 +0200 Subject: AW: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: References: <80BBB162-5EB8-49F9-AF94-98D8B4C25DCB@mtin.net> <451448fb728a45818f81792a3268e41d@anx-i-dag02.anx.local> <560F7EE9.4070206@netassist.ua> Message-ID: 2 million routes will not be enough if we go full /27. This is not a scalable solution. Something else is needed to provide multihoming for small networks (LISP?). Regards, Baldur On 3 October 2015 at 11:03, Youssef Bengelloun-Zahr wrote: > Hi, > > FYI, newer linecard models from BROCADE can hold 2 million routes. > Probably others can do that now too. > > Disclaimer : I'm not working for them or defending them, just setting an > information straight. > > My 2 cents. > > > > > Le 3 oct. 2015 ? 10:33, J?rgen Jaritsch a ?crit : > > > > As mentioned before: even the new SUP2T from Cisco is limited to 1Mio > routes ... > > > > There are MANY other vendors with the same limitations: Juniper, > Brocade, etc > > > > And the solt equipment is not the 99USD trash from the super market at > the corner ... > > > > > > J?rgen Jaritsch > > Head of Network & Infrastructure > > > > ANEXIA Internetdienstleistungs GmbH > > > > Telefon: +43-5-0556-300 > > Telefax: +43-5-0556-500 > > > > E-Mail: jj at anexia.at > > Web: http://www.anexia.at > > > > Anschrift Hauptsitz Klagenfurt: Feldkirchnerstra?e 140, 9020 Klagenfurt > > Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Alexander Windbichler > > Firmenbuch: FN 289918a | Gerichtsstand: Klagenfurt | UID-Nummer: AT > U63216601 > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Max Tulyev [maxtul at netassist.ua] > > Received: Samstag, 03 Okt. 2015, 9:11 > > To: nanog at nanog.org [nanog at nanog.org] > > Subject: Re: AW: /27 the new /24 > > > > Which routers? DIR-300 with OpenWRT/Quagga? :) > > > > I think all above-the-trash level routers supports >1M routes, isn't it? > > > >> On 02.10.15 17:45, J?rgen Jaritsch wrote: > >> Hi, > >> > >> this would at least help to get rid of many old routing engines around > the world :) ... or people would keep their "learn nothing smaller than > /24" filters in place. Also an option - but not for companies who act as an > IP transit provider. > >> > >> > >> best regards > >> > >> J?rgen Jaritsch > >> Head of Network & Infrastructure > >> > >> ANEXIA Internetdienstleistungs GmbH > >> > >> Telefon: +43-5-0556-300 > >> Telefax: +43-5-0556-500 > >> > >> E-Mail: JJaritsch at anexia-it.com > >> Web: http://www.anexia-it.com > >> > >> Anschrift Hauptsitz Klagenfurt: Feldkirchnerstra?e 140, 9020 Klagenfurt > >> Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Alexander Windbichler > >> Firmenbuch: FN 289918a | Gerichtsstand: Klagenfurt | UID-Nummer: AT > U63216601 > >> > >> > >> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > >> Von: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces at nanog.org] Im Auftrag von Justin > Wilson - MTIN > >> Gesendet: Freitag, 02. Oktober 2015 16:32 > >> An: NANOG > >> Betreff: /27 the new /24 > >> > >> I was in a discussion the other day and several Tier2 providers were > talking about the idea of adjusting their BGP filters to accept prefixes > smaller than a /24. A few were saying they thought about going down to as > small as a /27. This was mainly due to more networks coming online and not > having even a /24 of IPv4 space. The first argument is against this is the > potential bloat the global routing table could have. Many folks have > worked hard for years to summarize and such. others were saying they would > do a /26 or bigger. > >> > >> However, what do we do about the new networks which want to do BGP but > only can get small allocations from someone (either a RIR or one of their > upstreams)? > >> > >> Just throwing that out there. Seems like an interesting discussion. > >> > >> > >> Justin Wilson > >> j2sw at mtin.net > >> > >> --- > >> http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO > >> xISP Solutions- Consulting ? Data Centers - Bandwidth > >> > >> http://www.midwest-ix.com COO/Chairman > >> Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric > > > From wwaites at tardis.ed.ac.uk Sat Oct 3 10:57:07 2015 From: wwaites at tardis.ed.ac.uk (William Waites) Date: Sat, 03 Oct 2015 11:57:07 +0100 (BST) Subject: AW: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20151003.115707.448347413282905946.wwaites@tardis.ed.ac.uk> On Sat, 3 Oct 2015 12:42:01 +0200, Baldur Norddahl said: > 2 million routes will not be enough if we go full /27. This is > not a scalable solution. Something else is needed to provide > multihoming for small networks (LISP?). It's not too far off though. One way of looking at it is, for each extra bit we allow, we potentially double the table size. So with 500k routes and a /24 limit now, we might expect 4 million with /27. Not exactly because it depends strongly on the distribution of prefix lengths, but probably not a bad guess. Also there are optimisations that I wonder if the vendors are doing to preserve TCAM such as aggregating adjacent networks with the same next hop into the supernet. That would mitigate the impact of wanton deaggregation at least and the algorithm doesn't look too hard. Do the big iron vendors do this? -w -- William Waites | School of Informatics http://tardis.ed.ac.uk/~wwaites/ | University of Edinburgh https://hubs.net.uk/ | HUBS AS60241 The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in Scotland, with registration number SC005336. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jj at anexia.at Sat Oct 3 11:06:59 2015 From: jj at anexia.at (=?utf-8?B?SsO8cmdlbiBKYXJpdHNjaA==?=) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2015 11:06:59 +0000 Subject: AW: AW: AW: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: <747651278.3187.1443833619804.JavaMail.mhammett@ThunderFuck> References: <133ff0fed3394045add071349c00fcef@anx-i-dag02.anx.local> <747651278.3187.1443833619804.JavaMail.mhammett@ThunderFuck> Message-ID: Hi Mike, > but the boxes that have been there for 10 years have more than paid for themselves (unless they're a shitty business). No question about that! But why should they throw them away if they can still print $$$ with these boxes? They have to change nothing till the global routing table reaches at least 768k ... so let's say this will happen in 12-18 months. They have enough time to prepare, migrate, etc ... and while all the side stories are happening they are still able to print $$$ with the "old shit". > What I was saying is that my little business with meager means (and revenues) can afford a box to do it. This is definitely a question about sizing. Replacing a box with ~200 connected customers (only at this box!) is way more complex and this is nothing unrealistic. > If their business hasn't boomed, maybe it's time to replace that old 6500 with a 4500x or a QFX-5100 or an x670 or whatever. 4500x => no MPLS features QFX-5100 => very nice box (I'm a big fan) but complicate (and expensive!) licensing. Extreme x670 => nice box too - we also use this. But it's simply too small and the BGP configuration on these boxes is horrible. It's also not possible to provide Ethernet over MPLS with LACP BPDU forwarding ... too less features. Nice for aggregation and POP interconnect. All three models are new and shiny but they can't replace a 6500/7600. Too less port density and too less features (people are still using SDH. You need SDH in an 6500/7600? Simply install the required line card ...). If you really plan to replace a 6509 or even a 6513 you have to go with something like Juniper MX480/960 (I'm in love ... :D) or Cisco Nexus 7k/9k. One thing that will more and more happen: physical separation. There will be boxes with 10G/40G/100G only and boxes with 100M/1G only. Why? It's easier for vendors to remove old compatibility requirements (like electrical interfaces). So what we did in the past 3 years (replacing old boxes with new boxes with 1G/10G interfaces) was useless - we'll get our "old shit" back in place and bring them up and running. Of course: the "old shit" will be reduced to do aggregation layer or to something like "multihop instance" to transport the customers access port to the "real big and powerful router". Solving this with Layer2 extensions (like VLANs) is not practicable because you'll ran into other problems (like STP instances, etc). Probably it makes sense to solve it with Layer2VPN (Ethernet over MPLS, etc) to transport the physical interface to a virtual interface. Lots of things to think about :(. > Your decreased power bill alone will pay it off. If it has boomed, then ten years of revenues should get you whatever the bigger Ciscos are or an MX or whatever the bigger Extremes are. Power is no argument. You get power starting at 0,10 Eur /kWh. Another 0,10 Eur / kWh for cooling and we talk about 0,20 Eur / kWh => Cisco 6513 (configured with 11 line cards + 2x SUP) with 2x 6kW PSU uses 3,8kW. 3,8kW * 24 hours * 30 days = 2.736 kWh per month. 2.736 * 0,20 Eur = 547,2 Eur per month for power consumption + cooling. If you have a good sales engineer you earn the revenue for this "side cost" with 1 customer :). Realistic calculation is: 10 customers are required to earn the money for the footprint. > Don't whine about my choices in gear I mentioned. I was just throwing things out there. Old big, new small if no money or old big new big if money. Think the other way around: companies are earning Mio (or even Bil??) with the old equipment and everything is up and running. Only sometimes there is a small hick up because (of course!) also the "old shit" gets stuck from time to time and crashes. They did everything the right way (especially Level3 ...) from the commercial POV. > BTW: ROS 7 won't have multi-threaded BGP, but will be optimized to handle full table imports in a significantly reduced time. Oh, and I'm not sure that you couldn't do at least three nines with MT\UBNT. Well, no experience with the EdgeRouters yet. Never tried the earlier versions - my last tests happened in the end of 2014. I think we're talking a little bit about different sizes: you're talking about the CCRs and EdgeRouters (which are nice of course - no question about that!) and I'm talking about customer access devices (not CEP!) at carrier grade networks. Boxes I'm talking about have at least a few hundred ports. I think it's very important what UBNT and MT does: they bring fresh wind at the customer/semi-pro market and they show up that you (as a vendor) could get in touch with customers and optimize your equipment with customers feedback. best regards J?rgen Jaritsch Head of Network & Infrastructure ANEXIA Internetdienstleistungs GmbH Telefon: +43-5-0556-300 Telefax: +43-5-0556-500 E-Mail: JJaritsch at anexia-it.com Web: http://www.anexia-it.com Anschrift Hauptsitz Klagenfurt: Feldkirchnerstra?e 140, 9020 Klagenfurt Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Alexander Windbichler Firmenbuch: FN 289918a | Gerichtsstand: Klagenfurt | UID-Nummer: AT U63216601 -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces at nanog.org] Im Auftrag von Mike Hammett Gesendet: Samstag, 03. Oktober 2015 02:52 Cc: NANOG Betreff: Re: AW: AW: /27 the new /24 I don't expect carriers to be running UBNT\Mikrotik, but the boxes that have been there for 10 years have more than paid for themselves (unless they're a shitty business). It's time to rip and replace with whatever is appropriate for that site. No, I obviously don't think I'm going to change anyone's opinion on the matter (at least not anyone that matters in one of these networks). What I was saying is that my little business with meager means (and revenues) can afford a box to do it. They can too. I don't doubt their situation sucks... but either you fix it or you don't. Time and the rest of the Internet won't wait for them. If their business hasn't boomed, maybe it's time to replace that old 6500 with a 4500x or a QFX-5100 or an x670 or whatever. Your decreased power bill alone will pay it off. If it has boomed, then ten years of revenues should get you whatever the bigger Ciscos are or an MX or whatever the bigger Extremes are. Don't whine about my choices in gear I mentioned. I was just throwing things out there. Old big, new small if no money or old big new big if money. BTW: ROS 7 won't have multi-threaded BGP, but will be optimized to handle full table imports in a significantly reduced time. Oh, and I'm not sure that you couldn't do at least three nines with MT\UBNT. Well, no experience with the EdgeRouters yet. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "J?rgen Jaritsch" To: "Mike Hammett" Cc: "NANOG" Sent: Friday, October 2, 2015 6:11:47 PM Subject: AW: AW: /27 the new /24 Hi Mike, sorry, this was probably sent to quick ... let me please explain my POV of your statement: I want to concentrate my detailed answer only to the backbone situation which is often handled by the 6500/7600 - I guess all of us know that the 6500/7600 has a ton of additional features ... 6-7 years in the past carriers (and/or big ISPs) had only n*1G backbone capacities built with platforms that only had n*100M interfaces another 3-5 years before. Their only invest in these 3-5 years was to add the Gig line cards, install some software updates and add new fibre optics (GBICs). Chassis, cabling, management interfaces etc could be remain in the cabinet - they only had to replace ONE line card (let's say for a few thousand bucks) and with this invest they were able to scale up their capacities. Of course: at some point they also had to replace the SUPs, PSUs, FANs, etc. But the invest in the surrounding stuff is nothing compared with completely new machines. So what all these companies did was buying a machine with an basic configuration and since 10(!) years they are able to expand this machines with (more or less) small and cheap upgrades. In backbone situations the 6500/7600 are definitely at the end of the resources the platform can provide. Most of the carriers (and of course also the bigger ISPs) had a real chance to evaluate a new model/vendor to ran future networks (with possibly also a very good scale-up path and scaling- and upgrade-options). Most of the before mentioned are already in an migration process (let's take a look at Seabone ... they are migration from Cisco to a mix of Juniper and Huawei). Summary: there are strict limitations within the Cisco 6500/7600 platform and these limitations forces the big players to move this boxes out (or move them into other parts of their network). The limitation with 1Mio routes is not a secret and the admins of these boxes decide what they want to use (e.g. 768k routes for IPv4 unicast and 256k routes for MPLS+VRF, etc). If the global routing table reaches the 768k mark (I guess this will happen in the next 12-18months) most of the boxes will crash again (as it happened in Aug 2014). Regarding the words "I have a small router which handles multiple full tables ...": push and pull a few full tables at the same time and you'll see what's happening: the CCRs are SLOW. And why? Because the software is not as good as it could be: the BGP daemon uses only one core of a 36(?) core CPU. Same problem in the past with the EoIP daemon (not sure if they fixed it on the CCRs - they fixed it on x86). Routerboards are nice and cool and to be honest: I'm a big fan of this stuff (also Ubiquiti). But with this boxes you're not able to ran a stable enterprise class carrier network with >99,5% uptime. And that?s thei MAIN reason why "the old shit" is still online :). Hopefully my words explained my hard "you know nothing" blabla ? Best regards J?rgen Jaritsch Head of Network & Infrastructure ANEXIA Internetdienstleistungs GmbH Telefon: +43-5-0556-300 Telefax: +43-5-0556-500 E-Mail: JJaritsch at anexia-it.com Web: http://www.anexia-it.com Anschrift Hauptsitz Klagenfurt: Feldkirchnerstra?e 140, 9020 Klagenfurt Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Alexander Windbichler Firmenbuch: FN 289918a | Gerichtsstand: Klagenfurt | UID-Nummer: AT U63216601 -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces at nanog.org] Im Auftrag von Mike Hammett Gesendet: Freitag, 02. Oktober 2015 21:33 Cc: NANOG Betreff: Re: AW: /27 the new /24 Hrm. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "J?rgen Jaritsch" To: "Mike Hammett" , "NANOG" Sent: Friday, October 2, 2015 2:25:10 PM Subject: AW: /27 the new /24 > Stop using old shit. Sorry, but the truth is: you have no idea about how earning revenue works and you obviously also have no idea about carrier grade networks. J?rgen Jaritsch Head of Network & Infrastructure ANEXIA Internetdienstleistungs GmbH Telefon: +43-5-0556-300 Telefax: +43-5-0556-500 E-Mail: JJaritsch at anexia-it.com Web: http://www.anexia-it.com Anschrift Hauptsitz Klagenfurt: Feldkirchnerstra?e 140, 9020 Klagenfurt Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Alexander Windbichler Firmenbuch: FN 289918a | Gerichtsstand: Klagenfurt | UID-Nummer: AT U63216601 -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces at nanog.org] Im Auftrag von Mike Hammett Gesendet: Freitag, 02. Oktober 2015 20:38 An: NANOG Betreff: Re: /27 the new /24 Chances are the revenue passing scales to some degree as well. Small business with small bandwidth needs buys small and has small revenue. Big business with big bandwidth needs buys big and has big revenue to support big router. I can think of no reason why ten years goes by and you haven't had a need to throw out the old network for new. If your business hasn't scaled with the times, then you need to get rid of your Cat 6500 and get something more power, space, heat, etc. efficient. I saw someone replace a stack of Mikrotik CCRs with a pair of old Cisco routers. I don't know what they were at the moment, but they had GBICs, so they weren't exactly new. Each router had two 2500w power supplies. They'll be worse in every way (other than *possibly* BGP convergence). The old setup consumed at most 300 watts. The new setup requires $500/month in power... and is worse. Stop using old shit. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Herrin" To: "Mike Hammett" Cc: "NANOG" Sent: Friday, October 2, 2015 1:09:16 PM Subject: Re: /27 the new /24 On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 11:50 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: > How many routers out there have this limitation? A $100 router > I bought ten years ago could manage many full tables. If > someone's network can't match that today, should I really have > any pity for them? Hi Mike, The technology doesn't work the way you think it does. Or more precisely, it only works the way you think it does on small (cheap) end-user routers. Those routers do everything in software on a general-purpose CPU using radix tries for the forwarding table (FIB). They don't have to (and can't) handle both high data rates and large routing tables at the same time. For a better understanding how the big iron works, check out https://www.pagiamtzis.com/cam/camintro/ . You'll occasionally see folks here talk about TCAM. This stands for Ternary Content Addressable Memory. It's a special circuit, different from DRAM and SRAM, used by most (but not all) big iron routers. The TCAM permits an O(1) route lookup instead of an O(log n) lookup. The architectural differences which balloon from there move the router cost from your $100 router into the hundreds of thousands of dollars. Your BGP advertisement doesn't just have to be carried on your $100 router. It also has to be carried on the half-million-dollar routers. That makes it expensive. Though out of date, this paper should help you better understand the systemic cost of a BGP route advertisement: http://bill.herrin.us/network/bgpcost.html Regards, Bill Herrin -- William Herrin ................ herrin at dirtside.com bill at herrin.us Owner, Dirtside Systems ......... Web: From nanog at ics-il.net Sat Oct 3 13:10:36 2015 From: nanog at ics-il.net (Mike Hammett) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2015 08:10:36 -0500 (CDT) Subject: AW: AW: AW: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1706169196.3513.1443877918905.JavaMail.mhammett@ThunderFuck> I don't think we are talking different things, though I think we are talking in circles and thus the thread probably needs to die. People keep thinking I want Level 3 to replace a loaded 6500 with a CCR and that's simply not what I'm saying at all. The point of rattling off the newer\smaller hardware was to say that if the site doesn't require 40G\100G, doesn't have the revenue to support an MX480, etc. you should put in a smaller\cheaper box. Cost is a non-issue at that point because the smaller gear that's all you need will have far less operational cost. Someone thought a particular POP was going to be a big hit... and wasn't. On the flip side, if there are 200 ports of customers chances are you need the big interfaces that aren't on the old boxes. You have the bigger revenue. Heck, the new big boxes probably still use less power than the old big boxes anyway. What I learned from this thread: Once you mention MT\UBNT routers, people assume you're using a MT\UBNT hammer everywhere. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "J?rgen Jaritsch" To: "Mike Hammett" Cc: "NANOG" Sent: Saturday, October 3, 2015 6:06:59 AM Subject: AW: AW: AW: /27 the new /24 Hi Mike, > but the boxes that have been there for 10 years have more than paid for themselves (unless they're a shitty business). No question about that! But why should they throw them away if they can still print $$$ with these boxes? They have to change nothing till the global routing table reaches at least 768k ... so let's say this will happen in 12-18 months. They have enough time to prepare, migrate, etc ... and while all the side stories are happening they are still able to print $$$ with the "old shit". > What I was saying is that my little business with meager means (and revenues) can afford a box to do it. This is definitely a question about sizing. Replacing a box with ~200 connected customers (only at this box!) is way more complex and this is nothing unrealistic. > If their business hasn't boomed, maybe it's time to replace that old 6500 with a 4500x or a QFX-5100 or an x670 or whatever. 4500x => no MPLS features QFX-5100 => very nice box (I'm a big fan) but complicate (and expensive!) licensing. Extreme x670 => nice box too - we also use this. But it's simply too small and the BGP configuration on these boxes is horrible. It's also not possible to provide Ethernet over MPLS with LACP BPDU forwarding ... too less features. Nice for aggregation and POP interconnect. All three models are new and shiny but they can't replace a 6500/7600. Too less port density and too less features (people are still using SDH. You need SDH in an 6500/7600? Simply install the required line card ...). If you really plan to replace a 6509 or even a 6513 you have to go with something like Juniper MX480/960 (I'm in love ... :D) or Cisco Nexus 7k/9k. One thing that will more and more happen: physical separation. There will be boxes with 10G/40G/100G only and boxes with 100M/1G only. Why? It's easier for vendors to remove old compatibility requirements (like electrical interfaces). So what we did in the past 3 years (replacing old boxes with new boxes with 1G/10G interfaces) was useless - we'll get our "old shit" back in place and bring them up and running. Of course: the "old shit" will be reduced to do aggregation layer or to something like "multihop instance" to transport the customers access port to the "real big and powerful router". Solving this with Layer2 extensions (like VLANs) is not practicable because you'll ran into other problems (like STP instances, etc). Probably it makes sense to solve it with Layer2VPN (Ethernet over MPLS, etc) to transport the physical interface to a virtual interface. Lots of things to think about :(. > Your decreased power bill alone will pay it off. If it has boomed, then ten years of revenues should get you whatever the bigger Ciscos are or an MX or whatever the bigger Extremes are. Power is no argument. You get power starting at 0,10 Eur /kWh. Another 0,10 Eur / kWh for cooling and we talk about 0,20 Eur / kWh => Cisco 6513 (configured with 11 line cards + 2x SUP) with 2x 6kW PSU uses 3,8kW. 3,8kW * 24 hours * 30 days = 2.736 kWh per month. 2.736 * 0,20 Eur = 547,2 Eur per month for power consumption + cooling. If you have a good sales engineer you earn the revenue for this "side cost" with 1 customer :). Realistic calculation is: 10 customers are required to earn the money for the footprint. > Don't whine about my choices in gear I mentioned. I was just throwing things out there. Old big, new small if no money or old big new big if money. Think the other way around: companies are earning Mio (or even Bil??) with the old equipment and everything is up and running. Only sometimes there is a small hick up because (of course!) also the "old shit" gets stuck from time to time and crashes. They did everything the right way (especially Level3 ...) from the commercial POV. > BTW: ROS 7 won't have multi-threaded BGP, but will be optimized to handle full table imports in a significantly reduced time. Oh, and I'm not sure that you couldn't do at least three nines with MT\UBNT. Well, no experience with the EdgeRouters yet. Never tried the earlier versions - my last tests happened in the end of 2014. I think we're talking a little bit about different sizes: you're talking about the CCRs and EdgeRouters (which are nice of course - no question about that!) and I'm talking about customer access devices (not CEP!) at carrier grade networks. Boxes I'm talking about have at least a few hundred ports. I think it's very important what UBNT and MT does: they bring fresh wind at the customer/semi-pro market and they show up that you (as a vendor) could get in touch with customers and optimize your equipment with customers feedback. best regards J?rgen Jaritsch Head of Network & Infrastructure ANEXIA Internetdienstleistungs GmbH Telefon: +43-5-0556-300 Telefax: +43-5-0556-500 E-Mail: JJaritsch at anexia-it.com Web: http://www.anexia-it.com Anschrift Hauptsitz Klagenfurt: Feldkirchnerstra?e 140, 9020 Klagenfurt Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Alexander Windbichler Firmenbuch: FN 289918a | Gerichtsstand: Klagenfurt | UID-Nummer: AT U63216601 -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces at nanog.org] Im Auftrag von Mike Hammett Gesendet: Samstag, 03. Oktober 2015 02:52 Cc: NANOG Betreff: Re: AW: AW: /27 the new /24 I don't expect carriers to be running UBNT\Mikrotik, but the boxes that have been there for 10 years have more than paid for themselves (unless they're a shitty business). It's time to rip and replace with whatever is appropriate for that site. No, I obviously don't think I'm going to change anyone's opinion on the matter (at least not anyone that matters in one of these networks). What I was saying is that my little business with meager means (and revenues) can afford a box to do it. They can too. I don't doubt their situation sucks... but either you fix it or you don't. Time and the rest of the Internet won't wait for them. If their business hasn't boomed, maybe it's time to replace that old 6500 with a 4500x or a QFX-5100 or an x670 or whatever. Your decreased power bill alone will pay it off. If it has boomed, then ten years of revenues should get you whatever the bigger Ciscos are or an MX or whatever the bigger Extremes are. Don't whine about my choices in gear I mentioned. I was just throwing things out there. Old big, new small if no money or old big new big if money. BTW: ROS 7 won't have multi-threaded BGP, but will be optimized to handle full table imports in a significantly reduced time. Oh, and I'm not sure that you couldn't do at least three nines with MT\UBNT. Well, no experience with the EdgeRouters yet. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "J?rgen Jaritsch" To: "Mike Hammett" Cc: "NANOG" Sent: Friday, October 2, 2015 6:11:47 PM Subject: AW: AW: /27 the new /24 Hi Mike, sorry, this was probably sent to quick ... let me please explain my POV of your statement: I want to concentrate my detailed answer only to the backbone situation which is often handled by the 6500/7600 - I guess all of us know that the 6500/7600 has a ton of additional features ... 6-7 years in the past carriers (and/or big ISPs) had only n*1G backbone capacities built with platforms that only had n*100M interfaces another 3-5 years before. Their only invest in these 3-5 years was to add the Gig line cards, install some software updates and add new fibre optics (GBICs). Chassis, cabling, management interfaces etc could be remain in the cabinet - they only had to replace ONE line card (let's say for a few thousand bucks) and with this invest they were able to scale up their capacities. Of course: at some point they also had to replace the SUPs, PSUs, FANs, etc. But the invest in the surrounding stuff is nothing compared with completely new machines. So what all these companies did was buying a machine with an basic configuration and since 10(!) years they are able to expand this machines with (more or less) small and cheap upgrades. In backbone situations the 6500/7600 are definitely at the end of the resources the platform can provide. Most of the carriers (and of course also the bigger ISPs) had a real chance to evaluate a new model/vendor to ran future networks (with possibly also a very good scale-up path and scaling- and upgrade-options). Most of the before mentioned are already in an migration process (let's take a look at Seabone ... they are migration from Cisco to a mix of Juniper and Huawei). Summary: there are strict limitations within the Cisco 6500/7600 platform and these limitations forces the big players to move this boxes out (or move them into other parts of their network). The limitation with 1Mio routes is not a secret and the admins of these boxes decide what they want to use (e.g. 768k routes for IPv4 unicast and 256k routes for MPLS+VRF, etc). If the global routing table reaches the 768k mark (I guess this will happen in the next 12-18months) most of the boxes will crash again (as it happened in Aug 2014). Regarding the words "I have a small router which handles multiple full tables ...": push and pull a few full tables at the same time and you'll see what's happening: the CCRs are SLOW. And why? Because the software is not as good as it could be: the BGP daemon uses only one core of a 36(?) core CPU. Same problem in the past with the EoIP daemon (not sure if they fixed it on the CCRs - they fixed it on x86). Routerboards are nice and cool and to be honest: I'm a big fan of this stuff (also Ubiquiti). But with this boxes you're not able to ran a stable enterprise class carrier network with >99,5% uptime. And that?s thei MAIN reason why "the old shit" is still online :). Hopefully my words explained my hard "you know nothing" blabla ? Best regards J?rgen Jaritsch Head of Network & Infrastructure ANEXIA Internetdienstleistungs GmbH Telefon: +43-5-0556-300 Telefax: +43-5-0556-500 E-Mail: JJaritsch at anexia-it.com Web: http://www.anexia-it.com Anschrift Hauptsitz Klagenfurt: Feldkirchnerstra?e 140, 9020 Klagenfurt Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Alexander Windbichler Firmenbuch: FN 289918a | Gerichtsstand: Klagenfurt | UID-Nummer: AT U63216601 -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces at nanog.org] Im Auftrag von Mike Hammett Gesendet: Freitag, 02. Oktober 2015 21:33 Cc: NANOG Betreff: Re: AW: /27 the new /24 Hrm. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "J?rgen Jaritsch" To: "Mike Hammett" , "NANOG" Sent: Friday, October 2, 2015 2:25:10 PM Subject: AW: /27 the new /24 > Stop using old shit. Sorry, but the truth is: you have no idea about how earning revenue works and you obviously also have no idea about carrier grade networks. J?rgen Jaritsch Head of Network & Infrastructure ANEXIA Internetdienstleistungs GmbH Telefon: +43-5-0556-300 Telefax: +43-5-0556-500 E-Mail: JJaritsch at anexia-it.com Web: http://www.anexia-it.com Anschrift Hauptsitz Klagenfurt: Feldkirchnerstra?e 140, 9020 Klagenfurt Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Alexander Windbichler Firmenbuch: FN 289918a | Gerichtsstand: Klagenfurt | UID-Nummer: AT U63216601 -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces at nanog.org] Im Auftrag von Mike Hammett Gesendet: Freitag, 02. Oktober 2015 20:38 An: NANOG Betreff: Re: /27 the new /24 Chances are the revenue passing scales to some degree as well. Small business with small bandwidth needs buys small and has small revenue. Big business with big bandwidth needs buys big and has big revenue to support big router. I can think of no reason why ten years goes by and you haven't had a need to throw out the old network for new. If your business hasn't scaled with the times, then you need to get rid of your Cat 6500 and get something more power, space, heat, etc. efficient. I saw someone replace a stack of Mikrotik CCRs with a pair of old Cisco routers. I don't know what they were at the moment, but they had GBICs, so they weren't exactly new. Each router had two 2500w power supplies. They'll be worse in every way (other than *possibly* BGP convergence). The old setup consumed at most 300 watts. The new setup requires $500/month in power... and is worse. Stop using old shit. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Herrin" To: "Mike Hammett" Cc: "NANOG" Sent: Friday, October 2, 2015 1:09:16 PM Subject: Re: /27 the new /24 On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 11:50 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: > How many routers out there have this limitation? A $100 router > I bought ten years ago could manage many full tables. If > someone's network can't match that today, should I really have > any pity for them? Hi Mike, The technology doesn't work the way you think it does. Or more precisely, it only works the way you think it does on small (cheap) end-user routers. Those routers do everything in software on a general-purpose CPU using radix tries for the forwarding table (FIB). They don't have to (and can't) handle both high data rates and large routing tables at the same time. For a better understanding how the big iron works, check out https://www.pagiamtzis.com/cam/camintro/ . You'll occasionally see folks here talk about TCAM. This stands for Ternary Content Addressable Memory. It's a special circuit, different from DRAM and SRAM, used by most (but not all) big iron routers. The TCAM permits an O(1) route lookup instead of an O(log n) lookup. The architectural differences which balloon from there move the router cost from your $100 router into the hundreds of thousands of dollars. Your BGP advertisement doesn't just have to be carried on your $100 router. It also has to be carried on the half-million-dollar routers. That makes it expensive. Though out of date, this paper should help you better understand the systemic cost of a BGP route advertisement: http://bill.herrin.us/network/bgpcost.html Regards, Bill Herrin -- William Herrin ................ herrin at dirtside.com bill at herrin.us Owner, Dirtside Systems ......... Web: From baldur.norddahl at gmail.com Sat Oct 3 13:18:12 2015 From: baldur.norddahl at gmail.com (Baldur Norddahl) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2015 15:18:12 +0200 Subject: AW: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: <20151003.115707.448347413282905946.wwaites@tardis.ed.ac.uk> References: <20151003.115707.448347413282905946.wwaites@tardis.ed.ac.uk> Message-ID: Except we might very well reach 1+ million routes soon without accepting longer prefixes than /24. Also route updates is a concern - do I really need to be informed every time someone on the other end of the world resets a link? On 3 October 2015 at 12:57, William Waites wrote: > On Sat, 3 Oct 2015 12:42:01 +0200, Baldur Norddahl < > baldur.norddahl at gmail.com> said: > > > 2 million routes will not be enough if we go full /27. This is > > not a scalable solution. Something else is needed to provide > > multihoming for small networks (LISP?). > > It's not too far off though. One way of looking at it is, for each > extra bit we allow, we potentially double the table size. So with 500k > routes and a /24 limit now, we might expect 4 million with /27. Not > exactly because it depends strongly on the distribution of prefix > lengths, but probably not a bad guess. > > Also there are optimisations that I wonder if the vendors are doing to > preserve TCAM such as aggregating adjacent networks with the same next > hop into the supernet. That would mitigate the impact of wanton > deaggregation at least and the algorithm doesn't look too hard. Do the > big iron vendors do this? > > -w > > -- > William Waites | School of Informatics > http://tardis.ed.ac.uk/~wwaites/ | University of Edinburgh > https://hubs.net.uk/ | HUBS AS60241 > > The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in > Scotland, with registration number SC005336. > From nanog at ics-il.net Sat Oct 3 13:29:44 2015 From: nanog at ics-il.net (Mike Hammett) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2015 08:29:44 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Mikrotik in the DFZ (Was Re: AW: AW: /27 the new /24) In-Reply-To: <20151003.092349.2236946013734960508.wwaites@tardis.ed.ac.uk> Message-ID: <995688284.3567.1443879066362.JavaMail.mhammett@ThunderFuck> Sure MT has issues, but so does everyone. As someone that has used them for 10+ years, the past six months has seen a bit of a re-awakening over there. You can see this in the time to completion of many feature requests, bug fixes, new features, etc. I'm not sure they're going to do everything everyone is after, but they certainly have shown a huge increase in willingness to go the right direction. Of course it's easy for someone running big iron to scoff at the lack of feature X or feature Y. To that I say, what are the capabilities of your $200 router? Your $2k router? I haven't priced out new low-end gear from the big iron vendors, but I can't imagine at what price point you need to be at to have a multi-gig capable VPLS router. For Mikrotik you're in the $200 - $1k range, depending on what you mean by "multi-gig". One thing I miss as I start to use more non-Mikrotik hardware... Torch. I wish everything had Torch. Put Packet Sniffer in the list of things I'd like to see everywhere. I don't want port mirror as who's to say I have something to mirror to everywhere that can also capture? Put a few basic filters and drop the PCAP right on the damn box. Now obviously with something running BSD you could code up whatever you'd like or have an array of open-source packages to work with , but that wouldn't have the nice feature integration of a router OS. I have no problem running Mikrotik in the DFZ. Mine pull down full tables in 30 - 35 seconds, can handle somewhere in the 30 - 60 gb range when firewall rules are applied and so on. They'd cost under $1,500 new, but I got mine put together for a fraction of that. They're so cheap you can run two. Run two and now you have the advantage of being able to do maintenance without downtime. It's a little kludgey, but can get get the job done at a price point the others can't. Maybe with newer CCRs and ROS7 I could drop the need for the x86 boxes. We'll see. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Waites" To: jj at anexia.at Cc: nanog at ics-il.net, nanog at nanog.org Sent: Saturday, October 3, 2015 3:23:49 AM Subject: Mikrotik in the DFZ (Was Re: AW: AW: /27 the new /24) On Fri, 2 Oct 2015 23:11:47 +0000, J?rgen Jaritsch said: > Regarding the words "I have a small router which handles > multiple full tables ...": push and pull a few full tables at > the same time and you'll see what's happening: the CCRs are > SLOW. And why? Because the software is not as good as it could > be: the BGP daemon uses only one core of a 36(?) core CPU. To expand on this, the problem is worse than being single-threaded. I had one of these in the lab and fed it 2x full tables. Sure it wasn't the fastest at accepting them but then I noticed that even in steady state one of the CPUs was pegged. What was happening -- and this was confirmed by Mikrotik -- was that it was recalculating the *entire* FIB for each update. The general background noise of announce / withdraw messages means it is doing this all the time. Any churn and it would have a very hard time. There are other serious bugs such as not doing recursive next hop lookup for IPv6 (it does for IPv4). This makes them unuseable as BGP routers even for partial tables with most non-trivial iBGP topologies. All of which may be fixed one day in version 7 of their operating system, which will inevitably have many bugs as any software project .0 release will, so we'll have to wait for 7.x for it to be reasonably safe to use. That said, we use a lot of Mikrotik kit for our rural networks. They're weird and quirky but you can't beat them on price, port density and power consumption. With 16 ports and 36 cores surely they should be capable of pushing several Gbps of traffic with a few full tables. I wish it were possible today to run different software on their larger boxes. If some like-minded small providers wanted to get together with us to fund a FreeBSD port to the CCR routers that would be great. Please contact me off-list if you are interested in this, I'll coordinate. As it is we don't let them anywhere near the DFZ, that's done with PCs running FreeBSD and BIRD which can easily do the job but is still an order of magnitude more expensive (and an order of magnitude less expensive than what you need if you want 10s of Gbps). -w -- William Waites | School of Informatics http://tardis.ed.ac.uk/~wwaites/ | University of Edinburgh https://hubs.net.uk/ | HUBS AS60241 The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in Scotland, with registration number SC005336. From tmorizot at gmail.com Sat Oct 3 14:35:30 2015 From: tmorizot at gmail.com (Scott Morizot) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2015 09:35:30 -0500 Subject: How to wish you hadn't forced ipv6 adoption (was "How to force rapid ipv6 adoption") In-Reply-To: <3A415E75-7394-4DB7-846E-424A3808200B@delong.com> References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560D9DD0.2030904@Janoszka.pl> <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE@delong.com> <20151001222813.B9469391102B@rock.dv.isc.org> <20151001232613.GD123100@rootmail.cc.le.ac.uk> <20151002000125.9CD573911EF5@rock.dv.isc.org> <560DF4BA.5000500@invaluement.com> <20151002034402.1201F39225D0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560E00D4.7090400@invaluement.com> <20151002041858.984713922C86@rock.dv.isc.org> <560E0C44.5060002@invaluement.com> <3A415E75-7394-4DB7-846E-424A3808200B@delong.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 1:35 PM, Owen DeLong wrote: > > > On Oct 1, 2015, at 21:47 , Rob McEwen wrote: > > Also, it seems so bizarre that in order to TRY to solve this, we have to > make sure that MASSIVE numbers of individual IPv6 IP addresses.. that equal > numbers that my calculate can't reach (too many digits)... would all be > allocated to one single combined usage scenario. Then allocating only /48s > multiples that number by 65K. Mind boggling > > You?ll get over that eventually. Once you get some experience with the > conveniences and other advantages it brings, it?s actually pretty easy to > wrap your head around. > > I agree with Owen (and the others who have chimed in) on that one. As long as you're thinking and talking about individual addresses you're stuck in an IPv4 mindset. One of the points in having 64 bits reserved for the host portion of the address is that you never need to think or worry about individual addresses. IPv6 eliminates the address scarcity issue. There's no reason to ever think about how many individual addresses are available on any network. The answer is always more than enough. Instead you think about networks and network size. Also, good luck trying to shove the IPv6 genie back into the bottle. I doubt you're going to have much success. I know my large organization has seen the percentage of email traffic on our edge MTAs using IPv6 steadily grow since we dual-stacked them back in 2012. It's been a while since I checked with the organization responsible for them, but I believe it's somewhere north of 10% of all email traffic now. (I know our heavily used website has reached roughly 20% IPv6 traffic now.) So it's best to just keep working on ways to manage spam in an IPv6 world since that's the present reality. Scott From networkhood at gmail.com Sat Oct 3 04:15:44 2015 From: networkhood at gmail.com (Notmatt Pleaseignore) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2015 00:15:44 -0400 Subject: Bandwidth estimation question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Would cloudflare caching (free tier?) help in this case? Maybe easier than upgrades for short time traffic bump. On 2 Oct 2015 23:47, "Tom Sands" wrote: > > There is no telling how big a flash crowd might be. I've see them jump in > the Gbps range and not Mbps. > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Oct 2, 2015, at 10:06 PM, JoeSox wrote: > > > > I am trying to figure out if our hosting plan has enough bandwidth > > (currently at 15Mbps, our average webpage is 300kb). > > One of our members may win a peace prize for scientific work so there may > > be a media blitz. > > Does anyone know how much traffic a 'media blitz' (for lack of a better > > word) generates? > > I can bump it to 50Mbps but I am not even sure if that is enough. > > > > -- > > Thank You, Joe > From dylan at ambauen.com Sat Oct 3 06:24:40 2015 From: dylan at ambauen.com (Dylan Ambauen) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 23:24:40 -0700 Subject: Bandwidth estimation question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Treatment of this scenario by beefing up hardware or hosting plans, or temporarily increasing your metered limit is insufficient. Use a CDN for all static content, all the time. If your site averages low volume, it'll be very cheap. If you get a million page views in the first minute, you'll be glad to pay. Regardless of who is hosting, the host machine is most likely to hit OS/stack equivalents of either Apache Max Clients limits, or Mysql max_connections. It comes down to requests per second, and the memory or compute resources necessary to respond to each of those requests at internet scale. If not arbitrary daemon config limits, then probably the host hardware is crippled well before the link could become saturated, or you'd even surpass a metered rate. For instance https://aws.amazon.com/cloudfront/pricing/ quotes 8.5 cents/GB for the first 10TB/mo. At 300KB/page view, that's $25 per 1 million page views, and reasonable confidence that the necessary compute resources will be instantly available when the wave hits. The are many CDN services available. Your origin wont even feel it, just use reasonable expiry times. Your hosting company may be able to set up a CDN for you, or set it up yourself: - let your hosted site respond to a new alias like origin.mysite.com - set up the CDN distribution - point your domain's www CNAME to your new distribution Enjoy a worldwide caching reverse proxy with limitless resources, priced per page view. Maybe someone can recommend a IPv6 capable CDN service. --- Dylan Ambauen On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 9:11 PM, JoeSox wrote: > > Dylan, > Thanks. I am not currently hosting my own servers and I need the bandwidth by Monday, I was just notified of this potential event this afternoon. > > -- > Joe > sent from Droid Ultra > > Hi Joe, > > I have had great success with using a CDN for this purpose. Amazon Cloud Front or any other. A Content Distribution Network will cache your site all over the globe, reducing the load on your own server. I have seen high profile social media personalities draw millions of clicks within minutes of tweeting out something or another, and we can serve it all from a micro AWS instance without any increased load on the origin server. > > Today I use CDNS for all static content. > > --- > > Dylan Ambauen > > On Oct 2, 2015 8:06 PM, "JoeSox" wrote: >> >> I am trying to figure out if our hosting plan has enough bandwidth >> (currently at 15Mbps, our average webpage is 300kb). >> One of our members may win a peace prize for scientific work so there may >> be a media blitz. >> Does anyone know how much traffic a 'media blitz' (for lack of a better >> word) generates? >> I can bump it to 50Mbps but I am not even sure if that is enough. >> >> -- >> Thank You, Joe From randy at psg.com Sat Oct 3 16:34:27 2015 From: randy at psg.com (Randy Bush) Date: Sat, 03 Oct 2015 12:34:27 -0400 Subject: AW: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: <20151003.115707.448347413282905946.wwaites@tardis.ed.ac.uk> References: <20151003.115707.448347413282905946.wwaites@tardis.ed.ac.uk> Message-ID: > It's not too far off though. One way of looking at it is, for each > extra bit we allow, we potentially double the table size. that is math. in reality table size is proportional to multihoming + traffic engineering randy From randy at psg.com Sat Oct 3 16:36:33 2015 From: randy at psg.com (Randy Bush) Date: Sat, 03 Oct 2015 12:36:33 -0400 Subject: How to wish you hadn't forced ipv6 adoption (was "How to force rapid ipv6 adoption") In-Reply-To: References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560D9DD0.2030904@Janoszka.pl> <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE@delong.com> <20151001222813.B9469391102B@rock.dv.isc.org> <20151001232613.GD123100@rootmail.cc.le.ac.uk> <20151002000125.9CD573911EF5@rock.dv.isc.org> <560DF4BA.5000500@invaluement.com> <20151002034402.1201F39225D0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560E00D4.7090400@invaluement.com> <20151002041858.984713922C86@rock.dv.isc.org> <560E0C44.5060002@invaluement.com> <3A415E75-7394-4DB7-846E-424A3808200B@delong.com> Message-ID: > Also, good luck trying to shove the IPv6 genie back into the bottle. the problem is not getting it into the bottle. the problem is getting it out, at scale. when you actually measure, cgn and other forms of nat are now massive. it is horrifying. randy From mloftis at wgops.com Sat Oct 3 16:43:31 2015 From: mloftis at wgops.com (Michael Loftis) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2015 09:43:31 -0700 Subject: Bandwidth estimation question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Friday, October 2, 2015, Dylan Ambauen wrote: > ... > Enjoy a worldwide caching reverse proxy with limitless resources, priced > per page view. Maybe someone can recommend a IPv6 capable CDN service. > > Cloudflare. Also does IPv6 on the client facing side while doing IPv4 to you. -- "Genius might be described as a supreme capacity for getting its possessors into trouble of all kinds." -- Samuel Butler From rob at invaluement.com Sat Oct 3 18:28:13 2015 From: rob at invaluement.com (Rob McEwen) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2015 14:28:13 -0400 Subject: How to wish you hadn't forced ipv6 adoption (was "How to force rapid ipv6 adoption") In-Reply-To: References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560D9DD0.2030904@Janoszka.pl> <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE@delong.com> <20151001222813.B9469391102B@rock.dv.isc.org> <20151001232613.GD123100@rootmail.cc.le.ac.uk> <20151002000125.9CD573911EF5@rock.dv.isc.org> <560DF4BA.5000500@invaluement.com> <20151002034402.1201F39225D0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560E00D4.7090400@invaluement.com> <20151002041858.984713922C86@rock.dv.isc.org> <560E0C44.5060002@invaluement.com> <3A415E75-7394-4DB7-846E-424A3808200B@delong.com> Message-ID: <56101E3D.7000303@invaluement.com> On 10/3/2015 10:35 AM, Scott Morizot wrote: > One of the points in having 64 bits reserved for the host portion of > the address is that you never need to think or worry about individual > addresses. IPv6 eliminates the address scarcity issue. There's no > reason to ever think about how many individual addresses are available > on any network. The answer is always more than enough. Instead you > think about networks and network size. One thing that I thought was going to be a huge help with sending-IP blacklists in the IPv6 world... was perhaps shifting to tighter standards and greater reliance for Forward Confirmed rDNS (FCrDNS). For example, already in the IPv4 world, not having a PTR record means that lots of your mail won't get delivered. And not having a PTR record puts a "hair trigger" on your IP as far as getting blacklisted. Furthermore, having a dynamic-formatted PTR record is also a red flag. In contrast, a properly formatted PTR record, that ends in your primary domain name, does two HUGE things: It conveys both IDENTITY and REPUTATION upon that IP. Then FCrDNS follows that up by proving that the PTR record is authentic. Sadly, some very legit sources of e-mail that frustrate customers when blocked.. don't follow these rules... even a few senders with *no* PTR records. Fortunately, those are rare, and are generally handled with whitelistings, etc.--once confirmed to be sending important/desired mail. I was hoping that IPv6 could, if anything, tighten up these standards... ideally, these standards WOULD/SHOULD tighten up... but it looks like IPv6 is going to destroy these standards instead. Why? Because if an anti-spam blacklist is operating according to so many people's suggestions on this thread... and treating a /48 as if it were one IP. (or even a /56 or /64)... and should "not worry about individual addresses"... doesn't it remain true that in the IPv6 world... that PTR records are assigned on an individual IP basis? Or am I wrong and there is some kind of more generic PTR record lookup for a whole /64, or /48? If they are assigned individually, then this this is yet another reason that spam filtering for IP6 is thrown back into the dark ages (among others I've mentioned--that have NOT been fully answered). For example, if a spammer who has acquired a /48 is sending from literally millions, perhaps billions, of DIFFERENT IPs on that /48, then (a) the individual PTR records lookups would be prohibitively expensive (no scaling) and DNS caches of those would fill up RAM and hard drives, and (b) those actual PTR lookups could map back 1-to-1 to the spammers distribution list and give the spammer valuable intel about spamtraps, helping them "listwash", etc. (they would merely need to figure out the sources of the anti-spam blacklist's PTR lookups... this isn't an issue in the IPv4 world because they can't map that lookup to an individual e-mail address) Losing that tool (PTR and FCrDNS) for tracking/identifying senders... is a HUGE loss for spam filters and for anti-spam blacklists.. not just in the ability to identify spammers, but also in their ability to minimize false positives due to being able to more accurately identifying legit senders. (especially legit sender's newly acquired IP ranges that they deploy for mail sending) And on a simpler level, if there are multiple DIFFERENT PTR records for different IPs on that same /48 or /56 or /64 (different as in, ending with a different domain)... which one should be used for identifying the validity of the whole block? Sure, IP whois info is another helpful source... but I find LOTS of situations the IP4 world where IP whois doesn't drill down very far, and MASSIVE numbers of very diverse and separate networks are under one massive umbrella, where treating them all the same would cause massive FPs or massive FNs. is IPv6 any (or much!) better? Or can that too-large-umbrella happen with IPv6, too? > Also, good luck trying to shove the IPv6 genie back into the bottle. I > doubt you're going to have much success. I know my large organization > has seen the percentage of email traffic on our edge MTAs using IPv6 > steadily grow since we dual-stacked them back in 2012. It's been a > while since I checked with the organization responsible for them, but > I believe it's somewhere north of 10% of all email traffic now. You sound like you think I'm looking for a problem. But I'm actually looking for solutions, and I think you're underestimating the problems. I wonder if you read my posts. I'm all in favor of rapid adoption of IPv6 for SMTP-Authenticated traffic from the client to server. And I'm in favor of all non-mail rapid adoption of IPv6. The ONLY area where I think IPv6 shouldn't be too fast is MTA-to-MTA communication, and where we shouldn't eliminate IPv4 too fast for this reason alone. when you say, "north of 10%"... I wonder, what is that percentage if you don't include client-to-server SMTP-Authenticated traffic? Also, since such a low percentage of mail servers currently accept IPv6 traffic, all my worst fears about spam filtering in the IPv6 world are not going to be on display since the vast majority of spammers don't send via IPv6. This a ticking time bomb if IPv6 mail server traffic is pushed too fast. Just because it works now doesn't mean it will be workable later. I DO have some solutions in mind, but at this point in the discussion... it seems like a waste of time to even mention them when so many don't take these problems seriously. I think many are underestimating how much scarcity of IPs is helping ESPs and hosters try hard to keep their IPs clean. I'm on the front lines in fighting the most sneakiest spam and in dealing with grayhat ESPs who try to not send spam, but don't try that hard and WOULD be more worried about making more sales that month--EXCEPT that but don't want to see their *scarce* IPv4 IPs soiled. When others who are not on the front lines blow these concerns off, I'm reminded of the phrase, "let them eat cake". -- Rob McEwen +1 478-475-9032 From frnkblk at iname.com Sat Oct 3 18:34:55 2015 From: frnkblk at iname.com (Frank Bulk) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2015 13:34:55 -0500 Subject: How to wish you hadn't forced ipv6 adoption (was "How to force rapid ipv6 adoption") In-Reply-To: References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560D9DD0.2030904@Janoszka.pl> <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE@delong.com> <20151001222813.B9469391102B@rock.dv.isc.org> <20151001232613.GD123100@rootmail.cc.le.ac.uk> <20151002000125.9CD573911EF5@rock.dv.isc.org> <560DF4BA.5000500@invaluement.com> <20151002034402.1201F39225D0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560E00D4.7090400@invaluement.com> <20151002041858.984713922C86@rock.dv.isc.org> <560E0C44.5060002@invaluement.com> <3A415E75-7394-4DB7-846E-424A3808200B@delong.com> Message-ID: <000901d0fe0a$3337d710$99a78530$@iname.com> So let me ask a question -- there's several folks looking at overall IPv6 usage, but what about on a per-protocol level, and compared to IPv4? Frank -----Original Message----- From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces at nanog.org] On Behalf Of Randy Bush Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2015 11:37 AM To: Scott Morizot Cc: North American Network Operators' Group Subject: Re: How to wish you hadn't forced ipv6 adoption (was "How to force rapid ipv6 adoption") > Also, good luck trying to shove the IPv6 genie back into the bottle. the problem is not getting it into the bottle. the problem is getting it out, at scale. when you actually measure, cgn and other forms of nat are now massive. it is horrifying. randy From owen at delong.com Sat Oct 3 18:56:58 2015 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2015 11:56:58 -0700 Subject: How to wish you hadn't forced ipv6 adoption (was "How to force rapid ipv6 adoption") In-Reply-To: <335329195.1393.1443784549610.JavaMail.mhammett@ThunderFuck> References: <335329195.1393.1443784549610.JavaMail.mhammett@ThunderFuck> Message-ID: <91AF4F92-4371-4C6B-9F64-042DF7718DD4@delong.com> How do you figure that? Owen > On Oct 2, 2015, at 04:14 , Mike Hammett wrote: > > Not all providers are large enough to justify a /32. > > > > > ----- > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions > http://www.ics-il.com > > > > Midwest Internet Exchange > http://www.midwest-ix.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Philip Dorr" > To: "Rob McEwen" > Cc: "nanog group" > Sent: Thursday, October 1, 2015 11:14:35 PM > Subject: Re: How to wish you hadn't forced ipv6 adoption (was "How to force rapid ipv6 adoption") > > On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 10:58 PM, Rob McEwen wrote: >> On 10/1/2015 11:44 PM, Mark Andrews wrote: >>> >>> IPv6 really isn't much different to IPv4. You use sites /48's >>> rather than addresses /32's (which are effectively sites). ISP's >>> still need to justify their address space allocations to RIR's so >>> their isn't infinite numbers of sites that a spammer can get. >> >> >> A /48 can be subdivided into 65K subnets. That is 65 *THOUSAND*... not the >> 256 IPs that one gets with an IPv4 /24 block. So if a somewhat legit hoster >> assigns various /64s to DIFFERENT customers of theirs... that is a lot of >> collateral damage that would be caused by listing at the /48 level, should >> just one customer be a bad-apple spammer, or just one legit customer have a >> compromised system one day. > > As a provider (ISP or Hosting), you should hand the customers at a > minimum a /56, if not a /48. The provider should have at a minimum a > /32. If the provider is only giving their customers a /64, then they > deserve all the pain they receive. From nanog at ics-il.net Sat Oct 3 19:00:40 2015 From: nanog at ics-il.net (Mike Hammett) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2015 14:00:40 -0500 (CDT) Subject: How to wish you hadn't forced ipv6 adoption (was "How to force rapid ipv6 adoption") In-Reply-To: <91AF4F92-4371-4C6B-9F64-042DF7718DD4@delong.com> Message-ID: <1620300865.4142.1443898898788.JavaMail.mhammett@ThunderFuck> I followed up later, but so that it doesn't look like I'm ignoring you, if I were to take a /32 at my ISP, my ARIN fee would quadruple. I can't justify that. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Owen DeLong" To: "Mike Hammett" Cc: "nanog group" Sent: Saturday, October 3, 2015 1:56:58 PM Subject: Re: How to wish you hadn't forced ipv6 adoption (was "How to force rapid ipv6 adoption") How do you figure that? Owen > On Oct 2, 2015, at 04:14 , Mike Hammett wrote: > > Not all providers are large enough to justify a /32. > > > > > ----- > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions > http://www.ics-il.com > > > > Midwest Internet Exchange > http://www.midwest-ix.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Philip Dorr" > To: "Rob McEwen" > Cc: "nanog group" > Sent: Thursday, October 1, 2015 11:14:35 PM > Subject: Re: How to wish you hadn't forced ipv6 adoption (was "How to force rapid ipv6 adoption") > > On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 10:58 PM, Rob McEwen wrote: >> On 10/1/2015 11:44 PM, Mark Andrews wrote: >>> >>> IPv6 really isn't much different to IPv4. You use sites /48's >>> rather than addresses /32's (which are effectively sites). ISP's >>> still need to justify their address space allocations to RIR's so >>> their isn't infinite numbers of sites that a spammer can get. >> >> >> A /48 can be subdivided into 65K subnets. That is 65 *THOUSAND*... not the >> 256 IPs that one gets with an IPv4 /24 block. So if a somewhat legit hoster >> assigns various /64s to DIFFERENT customers of theirs... that is a lot of >> collateral damage that would be caused by listing at the /48 level, should >> just one customer be a bad-apple spammer, or just one legit customer have a >> compromised system one day. > > As a provider (ISP or Hosting), you should hand the customers at a > minimum a /56, if not a /48. The provider should have at a minimum a > /32. If the provider is only giving their customers a /64, then they > deserve all the pain they receive. From owen at delong.com Sat Oct 3 19:03:58 2015 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2015 12:03:58 -0700 Subject: How to wish you hadn't forced ipv6 adoption (was "How to force rapid ipv6 adoption") In-Reply-To: <560E8A59.2080205@satchell.net> References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560D9DD0.2030904@Janoszka.pl> <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE@delong.com> <20151001222813.B9469391102B@rock.dv.isc.org> <20151001232613.GD123100@rootmail.cc.le.ac.uk> <20151002000125.9CD573911EF5@rock.dv.isc.org> <560DF4BA.5000500@invaluement.com> <20151002034402.1201F39225D0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560E00D4.7090400@invaluement.com> <20151002041858.984713922C86@rock.dv.isc.org> <560E0C44.5060002@invaluement.com> <20151002051010.911C43923631@rock.dv.isc.org> <560E1F7C.6030808@invaluement.com> <132587.1443771871@turing-police.cc.vt.e! du> <560E8A59.2080205@satchell.net> Message-ID: <19244541-871E-4E9A-B9F0-8D4D1DD7B5E8@delong.com> > On Oct 2, 2015, at 06:44 , Stephen Satchell wrote: > > On 10/02/2015 12:44 AM, Valdis.Kletnieks at vt.edu wrote: >> On Fri, 02 Oct 2015 02:09:00 -0400, Rob McEwen said: >> >>> Likewise, sub-allocations can come into play, where a hoster is >>> delegated a /48, but then subdivides it for various customers. >> >> So they apply for a /32 and give each customer a /48. >> >> A hoster getting *just* a /48 is about as silly as a hoster >> getting a /32 of IPv4 and NAT'ing their customers. >> > > I agree, for a web hosting operation, getting an allocation smaller than a /32 doesn't make sense. > > But...now I ask this question: WHY a /48 per customer? I used to be a web host guy, and the rule was one IPv4 address per co-location customer or dedicated-server customer -- maybe two -- and shared-IP HTTP for those customers hosted on "house" servers with multiple sites on them. We had a couple of shared-hosting server with 64 IPv4 addresses each to support SSL sites with customer-provided SSL certificates.. > > OLD STYLE > > If a customer wanted more than one IPv4 address, he had to justify it so we could copy the justification to our ARIN paperwork. A /24 was right out, because the *only* people requesting that much IPv4 space were spammers. > > The largest legit co-location IPv4 customer allocation, because he had enough servers in his cage and sufficient justification to warrant it, was a /26 . Which I SWIPped. Which I treated as a completely separate subnet. Which was on its own VLAN. Which used separate 10base-T Ethernet interfaces on my edge routers to provide hard flow control and traffic monitoring. > > THAT WAS THEN, THIS IS NOW > > I can see, in shared hosting, where each customer gets one IPv6 address to support HTTPS "properly". Each physical server typically hosts 300-400 web sites comfortably, so assigning a /112 to each of those servers appears to make sense. This is particularly true now that there is a push for "https everywhere". > > Web hosting isn't going to be a downstream link for IoT, so the need for "massive" amounts of IPv6 addressing space is simply not there. > So there are a number of reasons. First, unless you want to be chasing ND Cache Overflow problems, you put each customer on a small link (/127) to your router and then route at least a /64 to their router if they just have one subnet. If they have more than one, then you certainly want to route them a larger prefix (/48). With virtualization and network virtualization, containers, and the like these days, treating each customer as a separate end-site is just good practice. You?re not going to have any problem explaining that to the RIRs. Owen From owen at delong.com Sat Oct 3 19:04:48 2015 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2015 12:04:48 -0700 Subject: How to wish you hadn't forced ipv6 adoption (was "How to force rapid ipv6 adoption") In-Reply-To: <855765269.1724.1443793613961.JavaMail.mhammett@ThunderFuck> References: <855765269.1724.1443793613961.JavaMail.mhammett@ThunderFuck> Message-ID: <01CDE19D-EF61-42EC-9A00-2CCFDB30887E@delong.com> Yes? This is a problem the ARIN board needs to fix post haste, but that?s not justification, that?s cost. Owen > On Oct 2, 2015, at 06:45 , Mike Hammett wrote: > > I may be able to justify it to ARIN, but I can't make a quadrupling of ARIN's fees justifiable to me. > > > > > ----- > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions > http://www.ics-il.com > > > > Midwest Internet Exchange > http://www.midwest-ix.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Mel Beckman" > To: "Mike Hammett" > Cc: "nanog group" > Sent: Friday, October 2, 2015 8:35:41 AM > Subject: Re: How to wish you hadn't forced ipv6 adoption (was "How to force rapid ipv6 adoption") > > > Every provider gets a /32, according to ARIN. > > > IPv6 - INITIAL ALLOCATIONS > Type of Resource Request Criteria to Receive Resource > ISP Initial Allocation > /32 minimum allocation > (/36 upon request) > NRPM 6.5.1 > > * Have a previously justified IPv4 ISP allocation from ARIN or one of its predecessor registries, or > * Qualify for an IPv4 ISP allocation under current policy, or > * Intend to immediately multi-home, or > * Provide a reasonable technical justification, including a plan showing projected assignments for one, two, and five year periods, with a minimum of 50 assignments within five years > > > IPv6 Multiple Discrete Networks > /32 minimum allocation > (/36 upon request) > NRPM 6.11 > > * be a single entity and not a consortium of smaller independent entities > > -mel via cell > > On Oct 2, 2015, at 4:15 AM, Mike Hammett < nanog at ics-il.net > wrote: > > > > > Not all providers are large enough to justify a /32. > > > > > ----- > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions > http://www.ics-il.com > > > > Midwest Internet Exchange > http://www.midwest-ix.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Philip Dorr" < tagno25 at gmail.com > > To: "Rob McEwen" < rob at invaluement.com > > Cc: "nanog group" < nanog at nanog.org > > Sent: Thursday, October 1, 2015 11:14:35 PM > Subject: Re: How to wish you hadn't forced ipv6 adoption (was "How to force rapid ipv6 adoption") > > On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 10:58 PM, Rob McEwen < rob at invaluement.com > wrote: > >
> On 10/1/2015 11:44 PM, Mark Andrews wrote: > > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> IPv6 really isn't much different to IPv4. You use sites /48's > >
> >
> >
> >
> rather than addresses /32's (which are effectively sites). ISP's > >
> >
> >
> >
> still need to justify their address space allocations to RIR's so > >
> >
> >
> >
> their isn't infinite numbers of sites that a spammer can get. > >
> >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> A /48 can be subdivided into 65K subnets. That is 65 *THOUSAND*... not the > >
> >
> 256 IPs that one gets with an IPv4 /24 block. So if a somewhat legit hoster > >
> >
> assigns various /64s to DIFFERENT customers of theirs... that is a lot of > >
> >
> collateral damage that would be caused by listing at the /48 level, should > >
> >
> just one customer be a bad-apple spammer, or just one legit customer have a > >
> >
> compromised system one day. > >
> > As a provider (ISP or Hosting), you should hand the customers at a > minimum a /56, if not a /48. The provider should have at a minimum a > /32. If the provider is only giving their customers a /64, then they > deserve all the pain they receive. > > >
From johnl at iecc.com Sat Oct 3 19:07:36 2015 From: johnl at iecc.com (John Levine) Date: 3 Oct 2015 19:07:36 -0000 Subject: How to wish you hadn't forced ipv6 adoption (was "How to force rapid ipv6 adoption") In-Reply-To: <56101E3D.7000303@invaluement.com> Message-ID: <20151003190736.14575.qmail@ary.lan> >One thing that I thought was going to be a huge help with sending-IP >blacklists in the IPv6 world... was perhaps shifting to tighter >standards and greater reliance for Forward Confirmed rDNS (FCrDNS). A lot of IPv6 mail systems want you to use SPF and DKIM signatures on IPv6 mail, or they won't accept it. This is a frequent topic at MAAWG meetings. IPv6 rDNS is a can of worms. You can't do generic rDNS other than with a stunt server that generates results on the fly. The general agreement seems to be that servers (which include mail clients) should have static IPs and valid rDNS, but the pain of doing rDNS at all has made the rDNS flaky. And anyway, a DKIM signature or even an SPF record is a lot more informative than a PTR record. >For example, if a spammer who has acquired a /48 is sending from >literally millions, perhaps billions, of DIFFERENT IPs on that /48, ... Even with a /64 a spammer could easily use a different IP for every message he ever sent, which as you note would make both legitimate bounce handling and spammer list washing easier. That's why no DNSBL I know is interested in granularities less than /64. There are some hosting providers that due to poor choices made a few years back (and perhaps poorly designed equipment from vendors) have been giving customers each a /128 inside a shared /64, but the advice I've been seeing is that if you want your customers to be able to send mail, don't do that. R's, John From nanog at ics-il.net Sat Oct 3 19:08:46 2015 From: nanog at ics-il.net (Mike Hammett) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2015 14:08:46 -0500 (CDT) Subject: How to wish you hadn't forced ipv6 adoption (was "How to force rapid ipv6 adoption") In-Reply-To: <01CDE19D-EF61-42EC-9A00-2CCFDB30887E@delong.com> Message-ID: <384489626.4172.1443899381146.JavaMail.mhammett@ThunderFuck> Well, outside of RIR speak, I can't justify quadrupling my cost for what the community considers to be the minimum ISP allocation. Maybe that's a better phrasing? *shrugs* {insert rent is too damn high meme}? This 8 bit network division stuff does make it difficult for ARIN to adequately assess fees, I'm sure. Most anyone could get by with the /32 bucket, which also happens to be the minimum I should be using. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Owen DeLong" To: "Mike Hammett" Cc: "nanog group" Sent: Saturday, October 3, 2015 2:04:48 PM Subject: Re: How to wish you hadn't forced ipv6 adoption (was "How to force rapid ipv6 adoption") Yes? This is a problem the ARIN board needs to fix post haste, but that?s not justification, that?s cost. Owen > On Oct 2, 2015, at 06:45 , Mike Hammett wrote: > > I may be able to justify it to ARIN, but I can't make a quadrupling of ARIN's fees justifiable to me. > > > > > ----- > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions > http://www.ics-il.com > > > > Midwest Internet Exchange > http://www.midwest-ix.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Mel Beckman" > To: "Mike Hammett" > Cc: "nanog group" > Sent: Friday, October 2, 2015 8:35:41 AM > Subject: Re: How to wish you hadn't forced ipv6 adoption (was "How to force rapid ipv6 adoption") > > > Every provider gets a /32, according to ARIN. > > > IPv6 - INITIAL ALLOCATIONS > Type of Resource Request Criteria to Receive Resource > ISP Initial Allocation > /32 minimum allocation > (/36 upon request) > NRPM 6.5.1 > > * Have a previously justified IPv4 ISP allocation from ARIN or one of its predecessor registries, or > * Qualify for an IPv4 ISP allocation under current policy, or > * Intend to immediately multi-home, or > * Provide a reasonable technical justification, including a plan showing projected assignments for one, two, and five year periods, with a minimum of 50 assignments within five years > > > IPv6 Multiple Discrete Networks > /32 minimum allocation > (/36 upon request) > NRPM 6.11 > > * be a single entity and not a consortium of smaller independent entities > > -mel via cell > > On Oct 2, 2015, at 4:15 AM, Mike Hammett < nanog at ics-il.net > wrote: > > > > > Not all providers are large enough to justify a /32. > > > > > ----- > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions > http://www.ics-il.com > > > > Midwest Internet Exchange > http://www.midwest-ix.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Philip Dorr" < tagno25 at gmail.com > > To: "Rob McEwen" < rob at invaluement.com > > Cc: "nanog group" < nanog at nanog.org > > Sent: Thursday, October 1, 2015 11:14:35 PM > Subject: Re: How to wish you hadn't forced ipv6 adoption (was "How to force rapid ipv6 adoption") > > On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 10:58 PM, Rob McEwen < rob at invaluement.com > wrote: > > > On 10/1/2015 11:44 PM, Mark Andrews wrote: > > > >
> >
> > > > >
> >
> >
> IPv6 really isn't much different to IPv4. You use sites /48's > >
> >
> >
> >
> rather than addresses /32's (which are effectively sites). ISP's > >
> >
> >
> >
> still need to justify their address space allocations to RIR's so > >
> >
> >
> >
> their isn't infinite numbers of sites that a spammer can get. > >
> >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> A /48 can be subdivided into 65K subnets. That is 65 *THOUSAND*... not the > >
> >
> 256 IPs that one gets with an IPv4 /24 block. So if a somewhat legit hoster > >
> >
> assigns various /64s to DIFFERENT customers of theirs... that is a lot of > >
> >
> collateral damage that would be caused by listing at the /48 level, should > >
> >
> just one customer be a bad-apple spammer, or just one legit customer have a > >
> >
> compromised system one day. > >
> > As a provider (ISP or Hosting), you should hand the customers at a > minimum a /56, if not a /48. The provider should have at a minimum a > /32. If the provider is only giving their customers a /64, then they > deserve all the pain they receive. > > >
From owen at delong.com Sat Oct 3 19:22:21 2015 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2015 12:22:21 -0700 Subject: How to force rapid ipv6 adoption In-Reply-To: References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560D9DD0.2030904@Janoszka.pl> <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE@delong.com> <20151001222813.B9469391102B@rock.dv.isc.org> <20151001232613.GD123100@rootmail.cc.le.ac.uk> <20151002000125.9CD573911EF5@rock.dv.isc.org> Message-ID: <5E0F32BF-74D1-4DD2-B142-234561BD7D28@delong.com> The majority of the large eyeball providers in the US are already doing this to most, if not all, of their customers. Comcast I believe has 100% IPv6 availability to residential and I think they are most of the way on Business too. I?m not sure of the percentage, but I know Time Warner Cable is well underway with their IPv6 deployment. Even AT&T is making progress on their DSL and u-Verse services. Verizon FIOS is a laggard, which is interesting given that VZW was the first and still has the best Cellular IPv6 deployment in the US (IPv6 ONLY insisting on manufacturers implementing 464XLAT is inferior in every way to dual stack, so T-Mo loses and to the best of my knowledge, SPRINT still can?t spell IPv6 to save their life) I don?t think any of the MVNOs have any IPv6 capability yet. So the problem you are suggesting we focus on is mostly a solved problem. Content Providers are progressing, modulo some serious laggards, notably Amazon and a few others. The reality, however, is that in terms of deprecating IPv4, there does need to be a focus on consumer electronics, device support, home router support and it?s quite overdue. Fortunately, we?re finally starting to see some movement in that area. Owen > On Oct 2, 2015, at 07:27 , Steve Mikulasik wrote: > > I think more focus needs to be for carriers to deliver dual stack to their customers door step, whether they demand/use it or not. Small ISPs are probably in the best position to do this and will help push the big boys along with time. If we follow the network effect (reason why IPv4 lives and IPv6 is slowly growing), IPv6 needs more nodes, all other efforts are meaningless if they do not result in more users having IPv6 delivered to their door. > > I think people get too lost in the weeds when they start focusing on device support, home router support, user knowledge, etc. Just get it working to the people and we can figure out the rest later. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces at nanog.org] On Behalf Of Mark Andrews > Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2015 6:01 PM > To: Matthew Newton > Cc: nanog at nanog.org > Subject: Re: How to force rapid ipv6 adoption > > > In message <20151001232613.GD123100 at rootmail.cc.le.ac.uk>, Matthew Newton writes: > > Additionally it is now a OLD addressing protocol. We are about to see young adults that have never lived in a world without IPv6. It may not have been universally available when they were born but it was available. There are definitely school leavers that have never lived in a world where IPv6 did not exist. My daughter will be one of them next year when she finishes year 12. IPv6 is 7 months older than she is. > > Some of us have been running IPv6 in production for over a decade now and developing products that support IPv6 even longer. > > We have had 17 years to build up a universal IPv6 network. It should have been done by now. > > Mark > >> -- >> Matthew Newton, Ph.D. >> >> Systems Specialist, Infrastructure Services, I.T. Services, University >> of Leicester, Leicester LE1 7RH, United Kingdom >> >> For IT help contact helpdesk extn. 2253, > -- > Mark Andrews, ISC > 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia > PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: marka at isc.org > From owen at delong.com Sat Oct 3 19:26:18 2015 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2015 12:26:18 -0700 Subject: How to force rapid ipv6 adoption In-Reply-To: References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560D9DD0.2030904@Janoszka.pl> <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE@delong.com> <20151001222813.B9469391102B@rock.dv.isc.org> <20151001232613.GD123100@rootmail.cc.le.ac.uk> <20151002000125.9CD573911EF5@rock.dv.isc.org> Message-ID: <3BF4D659-5BE3-4923-82FE-63C0A186C220@delong.com> > On Oct 2, 2015, at 07:48 , Cryptographrix wrote: > > For ISPs that already exist, what benefit do they get from > providing/allowing IPv6 transit to their customers? > > Keep in mind that the net is now basically another broadcast medium. It really isn?t. If it were, you wouldn?t have sites like Facebook, Youtube, etc. hosting so much UGC. The net is a two-way medium and it?s getting more and more bidirectional, not less so. Sure, there?s still lots of passively consumed content, but there?s more and more interactivity as well. The benefit to providing/allowing IPv6 transit to their customers is the ability to remain in business. There is a time coming when there will be IPv6-only features and/or content on the internet due to the shortage of IPv4 addresses. We?re already seeing higher performance and better throughput on IPv6 due to not having to deal with NAT (and possibly other causes) where it is implemented (See data from Facebook & VZW for example). In most cases, the costs of deploying IPv6 in an existing network are not that high, so providing a better user experience to your customers is usually a net win. Owen > > > > > On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 10:33 AM Steve Mikulasik > wrote: > >> I think more focus needs to be for carriers to deliver dual stack to their >> customers door step, whether they demand/use it or not. Small ISPs are >> probably in the best position to do this and will help push the big boys >> along with time. If we follow the network effect (reason why IPv4 lives and >> IPv6 is slowly growing), IPv6 needs more nodes, all other efforts are >> meaningless if they do not result in more users having IPv6 delivered to >> their door. >> >> I think people get too lost in the weeds when they start focusing on >> device support, home router support, user knowledge, etc. Just get it >> working to the people and we can figure out the rest later. >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces at nanog.org] On Behalf Of Mark Andrews >> Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2015 6:01 PM >> To: Matthew Newton >> Cc: nanog at nanog.org >> Subject: Re: How to force rapid ipv6 adoption >> >> >> In message <20151001232613.GD123100 at rootmail.cc.le.ac.uk>, Matthew Newton >> writes: >> >> Additionally it is now a OLD addressing protocol. We are about to see >> young adults that have never lived in a world without IPv6. It may not >> have been universally available when they were born but it was available. >> There are definitely school leavers that have never lived in a world where >> IPv6 did not exist. My daughter will be one of them next year when she >> finishes year 12. IPv6 is 7 months older than she is. >> >> Some of us have been running IPv6 in production for over a decade now and >> developing products that support IPv6 even longer. >> >> We have had 17 years to build up a universal IPv6 network. It should have >> been done by now. >> >> Mark >> >>> -- >>> Matthew Newton, Ph.D. >>> >>> Systems Specialist, Infrastructure Services, I.T. Services, University >>> of Leicester, Leicester LE1 7RH, United Kingdom >>> >>> For IT help contact helpdesk extn. 2253, >> -- >> Mark Andrews, ISC >> 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia >> PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: marka at isc.org >> >> From owen at delong.com Sat Oct 3 19:40:56 2015 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2015 12:40:56 -0700 Subject: How to force rapid ipv6 adoption In-Reply-To: <639A3CAD-88A3-4CAB-BD36-2C0AC0D34B1B@silverlakeinternet.com> References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560D9DD0.2030904@Janoszka.pl> <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE@delong.com> <20151001222813.B9469391102B@rock.dv.isc.org> <20151001232613.GD123100@rootmail.cc.le.ac.uk> <20151002000125.9CD573911EF5@rock.dv.isc.org> <639A3CAD-88A3-4CAB-BD36-2C0AC0D34B1B@silverlakeinternet.com> Message-ID: <2D8D55F1-6673-4DAA-A3CC-2A55AD21801F@delong.com> > On Oct 2, 2015, at 07:56 , Brett A Mansfield wrote: > > The problem with this is some of us smaller guys don't have the ability to get IPv6 addresses from our upstream providers that don't support it. And even if we did do dual stack, then we're paying for both IPv4 and IPv6 addresses. The cost is just too high. ARIN should give anyone with a current IPv4 address block a free equivalently sized IPv6 block (256 IPv4 = 256 /56s or one /48 IPv6). If they did that, there would be a lot more IPv6 adoption in dual stack. False? ARIN will charge you the fee for the largest category you fall into, v4 or v6, but not both. So, if you are in the ISP category and have a /22 or less, you?re currently not really able to deploy IPv6 for free, but it will only cost you $500/year more than what you are already paying to ARIN. If you have a /20 or less, then you can get IPv6 from ARIN without increasing your fees (/36) simply by requesting it. However, you should seriously consider requesting a /32 and biting the bullet on the $2000/year fee. There is work in progress on getting ARIN fees brought more in line between IPv4 and IPv6 and you may want to consider participating in that process and submitting your thoughts to the board for consideration. There will be a discussion of this at the upcoming ARIN meeting in Montreal. Please attend either in person or remotely and voice your thoughts. If you have more than a /20, then you can easily get a /32 IPv6 just for the asking with no fee impact whatsoever. > I don't understand why anyone would give an end user a /48. That is over 65,000 individual devices. A /56 is 256 devices which is the standard /24 IPv4. What home user has that many devices??? A /56 to the home should be standard. Based on giving each customer a /56, I could run my entire small ISP off a single /48. I know there are a lot of IP addresses in the IPv6 realm, but why waste them? At the rate were going, everything will have an IP address soon. Maybe one day each item of your clothing will need their own IP address to tell you if it's time to wash or if it needs repair. Stranger things have happened. Clearly you have not taken the time to understand the fundamentals of IPv6. First, a /48 is 65,536 subnets, not 65,000+ devices. Each of those subnets can support more than 18 quintillion devices (18,446,744,073,709,551,616 to be exact), assuming that the customer uses /64 subnets. A /56 is 256 subnets, and /24s are not really standard for end users in IPv4, especially residential users, so I?m not sure what you?re talking about there. You?re thinking like IPv4. In IPv4, we had to count individual devices and think about hosts. In IPv6, we want to get completely away from that. We also want to pave the way for auto-conf/zero-conf even with complex topologies that may evolve. So a /48 isn?t about being able to support 295,147,905,179,352,825,856 devices in every home, it?s about being able to have 16 bits of subnet mask to use in delegating addresses in a dynamic plug-and-play hierarchical topology that can evolve on demand without user configuration or intervention. If you cut that down to 8 bits, you seriously reduce the ability for these designs to ever get off the ground. So? IPv6 Lesson 1: Stop counting hosts and start thinking about counting subnets? Then realize that if you give 65,536 subnets to every end-site, you don?t even have to count subnets and move on. There?s no legitimate reason not to give an end-site a /48. There is no benefit whatsoever to preserving the scarcity mentality of IPv4. Please move forward. Thanks, Owen > > Thank you, > Brett A Mansfield > >> On Oct 2, 2015, at 8:27 AM, Steve Mikulasik wrote: >> >> I think more focus needs to be for carriers to deliver dual stack to their customers door step, whether they demand/use it or not. Small ISPs are probably in the best position to do this and will help push the big boys along with time. If we follow the network effect (reason why IPv4 lives and IPv6 is slowly growing), IPv6 needs more nodes, all other efforts are meaningless if they do not result in more users having IPv6 delivered to their door. >> >> I think people get too lost in the weeds when they start focusing on device support, home router support, user knowledge, etc. Just get it working to the people and we can figure out the rest later. >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces at nanog.org] On Behalf Of Mark Andrews >> Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2015 6:01 PM >> To: Matthew Newton >> Cc: nanog at nanog.org >> Subject: Re: How to force rapid ipv6 adoption >> >> >> In message <20151001232613.GD123100 at rootmail.cc.le.ac.uk>, Matthew Newton writes: >> >> Additionally it is now a OLD addressing protocol. We are about to see young adults that have never lived in a world without IPv6. It may not have been universally available when they were born but it was available. There are definitely school leavers that have never lived in a world where IPv6 did not exist. My daughter will be one of them next year when she finishes year 12. IPv6 is 7 months older than she is. >> >> Some of us have been running IPv6 in production for over a decade now and developing products that support IPv6 even longer. >> >> We have had 17 years to build up a universal IPv6 network. It should have been done by now. >> >> Mark >> >>> -- >>> Matthew Newton, Ph.D. >>> >>> Systems Specialist, Infrastructure Services, I.T. Services, University >>> of Leicester, Leicester LE1 7RH, United Kingdom >>> >>> For IT help contact helpdesk extn. 2253, >> -- >> Mark Andrews, ISC >> 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia >> PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: marka at isc.org >> > From owen at delong.com Sat Oct 3 19:44:23 2015 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2015 12:44:23 -0700 Subject: How to wish you hadn't forced ipv6 adoption (was "How to force rapid ipv6 adoption") In-Reply-To: References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560D9DD0.2030904@Janoszka.pl> <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE@delong.com> <20151001222813.B9469391102B@rock.dv.isc.org> <20151001232613.GD123100@rootmail.cc.le.ac.uk> <20151002000125.9CD573911EF5@rock.dv.isc.org> <560DF4BA.5000500@invaluement.com> <20151002034402.1201F39225D0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560E00D4.7090400@invaluement.com> <20151002041858.984713922C86@rock.dv.isc.org> <560E0C44.5060002@invaluement.com> <20151002051010.911C43923631@rock.dv.isc.org> <560E1F7C.6030808@invaluement.com> Message-ID: > On Oct 2, 2015, at 08:05 , Justin M. Streiner wrote: > > On Fri, 2 Oct 2015, Rob McEwen wrote: > >> it then seems like dividing lines can get really blurred here and this statement might betray your premise. A site needing more than 1 address... subtly implies different usage case scenarios... for different parts or different addresses on that block... which could slip back into... "you blocked my whole /48... but the spam was only coming from this tiny corner of the block over here (whether that be a one IP, a /64, or a /56)... and now other parts of the block that were sending out legit mail, are suffering". >> >> Likewise, sub-allocations can come into play, where a hoster is delegated a /48, but then subdivides it for various customers. > > That touches on the tough part of doing things like ingress/egress filtering > and spam blacklisting for IPv6. Net every network assigns IPv6 space to > end-users the same way, and even fewer still provide good data on how they > assign to end-users (SWIP, rwhois, etc). Networks that are blocking traffic are left to make a decision that straddles the line between providing the necessary level of protection for their services and minimizing the potential of collateral damage by blocking legitimate traffic from other users. Or you can take the approach that there are guidelines published out there that encourage /48 per end-site, /64 per subnet, and figure that anyone who chooses to do otherwise has brought about their own problems. > Blocking a single IPv6 address is generally not effective because it's trivial for a host to switch to a different address in the same /64, and hosts that have privacy extensions enabled will do so with no further action needed by the owner. This turns into an endless game of whack-a-mole. The same thing can happen with blocking /64s. Which is why I advocate playing a very short game of whack-a-mole with the first few /64s inside a given block and then detecting a ?pattern of abuse? that leads to blocking on a larger level (/48, /32, shorter?). > > It's often not clear if provider XYZ is assigning /56, /48, or something else to end-users, especially if the provider doesn't provide any publicly accessible information to that end. Who cares? If they are shortchanging their customers in this way, they have created their own pain. It?s not your fault. Owen From owen at delong.com Sat Oct 3 20:08:25 2015 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2015 13:08:25 -0700 Subject: How to force rapid ipv6 adoption In-Reply-To: References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560D9DD0.2030904@Janoszka.pl> <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE@delong.com> <20151001222813.B9469391102B@rock.dv.isc.org> <20151001232613.GD123100@rootmail.cc.le.ac.uk> <55A3A845-751A-4F21-BC6E-8549DD7BEFCB@delong.com> <9FB08507-F739-40CA-AA98-6D35B61F7C95@delong.com> <9591EA37-1A36-42AF-B5DC-E9FA737D6CE2@delong.com> Message-ID: > On Oct 2, 2015, at 13:45 , Todd Underwood wrote: > > On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 2:07 PM, Owen DeLong wrote: >> >> None of them does what you propose ? Smooth seamless communication between >> an IPv4-only host and an IPv6-only host. > > i view this point/question as an assertion by owen as follows: > > "it was never possible to design a smooth transition and that's why we > gave up on it." > > furthermore, it's a also the following assertion: > > "it was never possible to expand our address space while allowing for > an actual migration." > > if you believe that, then you end up in advocacy land. if you don't > believe that but you see lots of people who gave up on the design > process early, then you understand why we're here. > > v6 was designed without a migration plan and it wasn't believed to be > important, or possibly wasn't believed to be possible. but there was > never any pressure to use v6 because v4 worked well and we had plenty > of addresses. we still have plenty of addresses and although they're > no longer ~free from quasi-governmental organizations they're way > cheaper than the cost to implement v6. so we're still going to use v4 > ~forever. OK, so if you think those are assertions rather than fact, it should be pretty easy for you to disprove them by presenting an example of a workable solution. > >> >> So, please, Todd, explicate exactly how you would achieve that stated >> objective? What could you do differently on the IPv6-only host side that >> would allow smooth seamless connectivity to/from the IPv4 host while still >> providing a larger address space? > > it sounds like you're interested in having the engineering > conversation that should have been had ~15 years ago. me, too 15 > years ago. sigh. I?m willing to have it now if you?re up for it. So far, all I see is handwaving claiming that it wasn?t had 15 years ago or that the fact that the conversation 15 years ago resulted in a decision that it simply wasn?t possible was somehow incomplete rather than a recognition of the facts at hand. I?ve given quite a bit of thought to it actually and I admit I haven?t been able to come up with anything better than what we have in terms of migration strategies. > i know owen is now just trolling because he's threatened by the idea > that there might be something wrong with ipv6, but the reality is that > none of this was necessary. ipv6 might have been done differently > with a different header format and different choices around migration. > routing could have been done differently to try to preserve end-to-end > but still splitting locators and identifiers (which i know that dave > meyer thinks might not be possible but i'm still more sanguine about). > we could have explicitly made smooth migration an engineering > requirement just as much as "more addresses" were. First, this is absurd. I?m trying to engage you in a productive discussion, despite your best efforts to avoid one. I?m the first person to admit that there are a number of things wrong with IPv6, but there are also a lot of things wrong with IPv4 and any other human invention throughout history. However, none of what you propose above solves the problem at hand? How does an unmodified IPv4 host accept a packet from a host with only a 128-bit address and reply to it from it?s 32-bit address using a packet format (IPv4) that only supports 32-bit addresses? I agree that it would have been ideal (for other reasons, actually) if the IPv6 packet had a 32-bit field for ?Destination ASN? in it so that we could have populated that field at the first DFZ router and then let the packet get routed through the IDR area using just the ASN tag. Unfortunately, that didn?t happen. (Of course now we have lots of networks that, for reasons passing understanding, have deployed ASNs in an incompatible way where they have multiple separate collections of prefixes with distinct routing protocols using a single ASN). Again, if you have a solution? An actual solution, present your proposed packet header. Tell us how it would work. Tell us how the IPv4-only host with no software modifications would be able to accept connections from and respond to a host which has no unique 32-bit identifier available to it. > we didn't. that's fine. so we got a disconnected network that some > things can talk to and others can't. and we put the full burden all > the way to every edge. and now we have conversations about how to > upgrade home cpe everywhere. it's tedious and boring and dumb but > it's the direct result of every decision we made and how we > prioritized things. Yet you still haven?t presented an actual workable alternative. Lots of people smarter than me have also pondered this question and failed to come up with a workable alternative. It?s not that nobody wanted what you describe? It?s that we couldn?t find a way to implement it. If you have a solution, please present it. If you don?t, then please stop insulting everyone as if you somehow know better just because you can. > so, for clarity, this "how do you magically enable smooth migration > now that we didn't prioritize it in the protocol design" question is a > bogus red herring. the answer is: "you prioritize it in the protocol > design". i assume smart people can see that. It was originally prioritized in the protocol design until people much smarter than I am with much more experience and a great deal of math decided that it was mathematically impossible to do so. Again, if you have a real answer to the question, please provide it. Perhaps we can design something like what you propose and make it work. Perhaps not, but at least we?ll know where we failed. If you don?t have a real answer, then please recognize that many people did try to come up with one and couldn?t. That there?s actual math that says it?s not actually possible (I?m the first to admit the math could be wrong, but it?s not my math and I?m not that skilled in the math involved to say one way or another.). If you?re so much better than everyone else who looked at this problem that you found a solution where nobody else did, then, again, I implore you to share it with the rest of us. Otherwise, how about recognizing that a large number of people did the best they could with what they had at the time and we now have a protocol that works well enough, provides a sufficiently large address space for many more years of internet growth, and will eventually be the internet protocol. Once upon a time, IPv4 was this incompatible protocol that could only be spoken by some of the hosts on the NCP internet, you know. > owen: i understand you like v6 and that it's important to you. that > doesn't mean it's perfect and it doesn't mean we couldn't have done > better. stop being so hostile and so threatened and try to listen a > bit. or don't. whatever works for you. Actually, I like the internet and being able to continue to deploy it to far reaches of society is what is important to me. I recognize that IPv4 isn?t going to cut it and nobody, including you, has shown me a viable alternative other than IPv6. So? I?m not being hostile. I?m not threatened at all, and I?ve been listening. The problem is that you are talking a lot without saying anything. Todd: I understand you probably don?t have a real solution and that you don?t want to publicly admit that because it might be embarrassing after all your handwaving. It?s OK, I don?t blame you for that. However, I have listened to everything you said, including a number of erroneous assumptions about my position and where I am coming from which I find mostly amusing, but mildly harmful. I certainly understand how that perspective has corrupted your thinking about my words and I hope now that I have offered you a more accurate perspective, you will take the opportunity to review what I have said in a more accurate light. If you have a real solution, please share. If you don?t, that?s OK, but stop insisting that everyone else share your belief in magic and recognize that we need something with more than 32-bits of identifier space and we need it yesterday. We?re already way behind, so if you have a superior solution, let?s get it out there and see if we can get it moving. If not, how about you give the rest of us a hand implementing the solution we do have, ugly as it may be, instead of just snarking from the sidelines about how it?s never going to work? Owen > > cheers! > > t > >> >> In any case I'm giving up on that conversation. And this whole one. It goes >> nowhere. >> >> And this is why v6 is where it is: true believers. Instead of a simple, >> practical matter of engineering a transition we got 15 years of advocacy. >> >> If it?s so simple, why do you continue to refuse to explain the process? >> >> Owen >> >> From owen at delong.com Sat Oct 3 20:11:12 2015 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2015 13:11:12 -0700 Subject: How to force rapid ipv6 adoption In-Reply-To: References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560D9DD0.2030904@Janoszka.pl> <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE@delong.com> <20151001222813.B9469391102B@rock.dv.isc.org> <9C65752A-9721-483F-8655-6EF036C2D2A4@cisco.com> Message-ID: <28E058E7-1953-4B1D-A8EF-8E5D89D48F18@delong.com> This still would have required updating every application, host, router, everything. Just as much work as deploying IPv6 without many of the benefits. No thanks, Owen > On Oct 2, 2015, at 14:18 , William Herrin wrote: > > On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 5:03 PM, Fred Baker (fred) wrote: >> There's no way to change the IPv4 address to be larger > > http://bill.herrin.us/network/ipxl.html > > There's always a way. > > Regards, > Bill Herrin > > > > -- > William Herrin ................ herrin at dirtside.com bill at herrin.us > Owner, Dirtside Systems ......... Web: From cb.list6 at gmail.com Sat Oct 3 20:33:54 2015 From: cb.list6 at gmail.com (Ca By) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2015 13:33:54 -0700 Subject: How to force rapid ipv6 adoption In-Reply-To: <5E0F32BF-74D1-4DD2-B142-234561BD7D28@delong.com> References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560D9DD0.2030904@Janoszka.pl> <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE@delong.com> <20151001222813.B9469391102B@rock.dv.isc.org> <20151001232613.GD123100@rootmail.cc.le.ac.uk> <20151002000125.9CD573911EF5@rock.dv.isc.org> <5E0F32BF-74D1-4DD2-B142-234561BD7D28@delong.com> Message-ID: On Saturday, October 3, 2015, Owen DeLong wrote: > The majority of the large eyeball providers in the US are already doing > this to most, if not all, of their customers. > > Comcast I believe has 100% IPv6 availability to residential and I think > they are most of the way on Business too. > > I?m not sure of the percentage, but I know Time Warner Cable is well > underway with their IPv6 deployment. > > Even AT&T is making progress on their DSL and u-Verse services. > > Verizon FIOS is a laggard, which is interesting given that VZW was the > first and still has the best Cellular IPv6 deployment in the US > > (IPv6 ONLY insisting on manufacturers implementing 464XLAT is inferior in > every way to dual stack, so T-Mo loses and to the best of my knowledge, > SPRINT still can?t spell IPv6 to save their life) > > I believe the Samsung Galaxy 6 launched with ipv6 by default on all 4 national networks in the USA I don?t think any of the MVNOs have any IPv6 capability yet. > > So the problem you are suggesting we focus on is mostly a solved problem. > Content Providers are progressing, modulo some serious laggards, notably > Amazon and a few others. > > The reality, however, is that in terms of deprecating IPv4, there does > need to be a focus on consumer electronics, device support, home router > support and it?s quite overdue. Fortunately, we?re finally starting to see > some movement in that area. > > Owen > > > On Oct 2, 2015, at 07:27 , Steve Mikulasik > wrote: > > > > I think more focus needs to be for carriers to deliver dual stack to > their customers door step, whether they demand/use it or not. Small ISPs > are probably in the best position to do this and will help push the big > boys along with time. If we follow the network effect (reason why IPv4 > lives and IPv6 is slowly growing), IPv6 needs more nodes, all other efforts > are meaningless if they do not result in more users having IPv6 delivered > to their door. > > > > I think people get too lost in the weeds when they start focusing on > device support, home router support, user knowledge, etc. Just get it > working to the people and we can figure out the rest later. > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces at nanog.org ] On Behalf > Of Mark Andrews > > Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2015 6:01 PM > > To: Matthew Newton > > > Cc: nanog at nanog.org > > Subject: Re: How to force rapid ipv6 adoption > > > > > > In message <20151001232613.GD123100 at rootmail.cc.le.ac.uk >, > Matthew Newton writes: > > > > Additionally it is now a OLD addressing protocol. We are about to see > young adults that have never lived in a world without IPv6. It may not > have been universally available when they were born but it was available. > There are definitely school leavers that have never lived in a world where > IPv6 did not exist. My daughter will be one of them next year when she > finishes year 12. IPv6 is 7 months older than she is. > > > > Some of us have been running IPv6 in production for over a decade now > and developing products that support IPv6 even longer. > > > > We have had 17 years to build up a universal IPv6 network. It should > have been done by now. > > > > Mark > > > >> -- > >> Matthew Newton, Ph.D. > > >> > >> Systems Specialist, Infrastructure Services, I.T. Services, University > >> of Leicester, Leicester LE1 7RH, United Kingdom > >> > >> For IT help contact helpdesk extn. 2253, > > > -- > > Mark Andrews, ISC > > 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia > > PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: marka at isc.org > > > > > From bill at herrin.us Sat Oct 3 21:01:40 2015 From: bill at herrin.us (William Herrin) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2015 17:01:40 -0400 Subject: How to wish you hadn't forced ipv6 adoption (was "How to force rapid ipv6 adoption") In-Reply-To: References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560D9DD0.2030904@Janoszka.pl> <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE@delong.com> <20151001222813.B9469391102B@rock.dv.isc.org> <20151001232613.GD123100@rootmail.cc.le.ac.uk> <20151002000125.9CD573911EF5@rock.dv.isc.org> <560DF4BA.5000500@invaluement.com> <20151002034402.1201F39225D0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560E00D4.7090400@invaluement.com> <20151002041858.984713922C86@rock.dv.isc.org> <560E0C44.5060002@invaluement.com> <3A415E75-7394-4DB7-846E-424A3808200B@delong.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Oct 3, 2015 at 10:35 AM, Scott Morizot wrote: > One of the points in having 64 bits reserved for the host > portion of the address is that you never need to think or worry about > individual addresses Well, that turned out to be a farce. Instead of worrying about running out of addresses on the lan, you have to worry about other people tracking your mobile users through their static 64 bit tail (SLAAC) or having trouble internally tracking your users (privacy extensions). Give me the straightforward problem over the subtle one any time. Regards, Bill Herrin -- William Herrin ................ herrin at dirtside.com bill at herrin.us Owner, Dirtside Systems ......... Web: From Steve.Mikulasik at civeo.com Sat Oct 3 21:37:23 2015 From: Steve.Mikulasik at civeo.com (Steve Mikulasik) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2015 21:37:23 +0000 Subject: Telus ADSL IPv6 Roll Out Message-ID: Looks like Telus is rolling out IPv6 to their ADSL customers. My ISP modem/router is getting a /64 at home. I have a really big smile right now [?] From kauer at biplane.com.au Sat Oct 3 22:09:54 2015 From: kauer at biplane.com.au (Karl Auer) Date: Sun, 04 Oct 2015 09:09:54 +1100 Subject: Telus ADSL IPv6 Roll Out In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1443910194.17484.4.camel@karl> On Sat, 2015-10-03 at 21:37 +0000, Steve Mikulasik wrote: > Looks like Telus is rolling out IPv6 to their ADSL customers. My ISP > modem/router is getting a /64 at home. I have a really big smile right > now [?] If that /64 is on the outside interface, well done - what are you getting on the inside for your own use? If the /64 is on the inside (and not part of a larger supernet, say a /48) then there is little cause for celebration, as you will be limited to one (1) IPv6 subnet in the home. "Better than nothing" is about you could say about that... Regards, K. -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Karl Auer (kauer at biplane.com.au) http://www.biplane.com.au/kauer http://twitter.com/kauer389 GPG fingerprint: 3C41 82BE A9E7 99A1 B931 5AE7 7638 0147 2C3C 2AC4 Old fingerprint: EC67 61E2 C2F6 EB55 884B E129 072B 0AF0 72AA 9882 From surfer at mauigateway.com Sat Oct 3 22:15:20 2015 From: surfer at mauigateway.com (Scott Weeks) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2015 15:15:20 -0700 Subject: How to force rapid ipv6 adoption Message-ID: <20151003151520.F82D76E0@m0087795.ppops.net> --- marka at isc.org wrote: From: Mark Andrews :: Lots of homes don't even know they are running :: IPv6 in parallel with IPv4. It is usually a :: non-event. ---------------------------------------------- That's for sure. I have been focusing a lot on work lately instead of my home network and one day I just happened to notice one of my ISPs (TW) turned on IPv6 in Hawaii. Embarrassingly, I don't even know when they turned it on. It just worked. :: The hard part is convincing the guys and gals on :: this list to turn it on In defense of many folks on the list it is many times a VERY hard task convincing non-technical or minimally technically oriented managers to let us have the time and permission to roll it out. It's one thing that's got me really grumpy about where I work. They just don't (and don't want to) understand. scott From lorell at hathcock.org Sat Oct 3 22:27:01 2015 From: lorell at hathcock.org (Lorell Hathcock) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2015 17:27:01 -0500 Subject: Inexpensive probes for automated bandwidth testing purposes Message-ID: <37DBA43E-EE76-4323-962C-30BB988D0C2E@hathcock.org> Greetings, NANOG. Happy Saturday to all. I am running a DOCSIS network that has a noisy cable plant. I want to be able to substantiate and quantify users' bandwidth issues. I would like a set of inexpensive probes that I could place at selected customer's homes/businesses that would on a scheduled basis perform bandwidth tests. Likely I would need to place a server in the head end or across the internet that would allow me to isolate and test certain network segments. I've looked into these in the past and was presented with some wonderfully expensive units that would duplicate my network problems into company financial problems as well. Any ideas? I know there are other ways to measure noise in the cable plant and I am working on those as well. I will soon be running other, non-DOCSIS networks and need to have the same capabilities to test available bandwidth on those networks. Thanks! Lorell Hathcock Sent from my iPad From josh at imaginenetworksllc.com Sat Oct 3 22:39:04 2015 From: josh at imaginenetworksllc.com (Josh Luthman) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2015 18:39:04 -0400 Subject: Inexpensive probes for automated bandwidth testing purposes In-Reply-To: <37DBA43E-EE76-4323-962C-30BB988D0C2E@hathcock.org> References: <37DBA43E-EE76-4323-962C-30BB988D0C2E@hathcock.org> Message-ID: Measure IP bandwidth? Could use a Mikrotik depending on the throughout expectations. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Oct 3, 2015 6:27 PM, "Lorell Hathcock" wrote: > Greetings, NANOG. Happy Saturday to all. > > I am running a DOCSIS network that has a noisy cable plant. I want to be > able to substantiate and quantify users' bandwidth issues. I would like a > set of inexpensive probes that I could place at selected customer's > homes/businesses that would on a scheduled basis perform bandwidth tests. > > Likely I would need to place a server in the head end or across the > internet that would allow me to isolate and test certain network segments. > > I've looked into these in the past and was presented with some wonderfully > expensive units that would duplicate my network problems into company > financial problems as well. > > Any ideas? I know there are other ways to measure noise in the cable > plant and I am working on those as well. I will soon be running other, > non-DOCSIS networks and need to have the same capabilities to test > available bandwidth on those networks. > > Thanks! > > Lorell Hathcock > > Sent from my iPad From jared at puck.nether.net Sat Oct 3 22:43:58 2015 From: jared at puck.nether.net (Jared Mauch) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2015 18:43:58 -0400 Subject: Inexpensive probes for automated bandwidth testing purposes In-Reply-To: <37DBA43E-EE76-4323-962C-30BB988D0C2E@hathcock.org> References: <37DBA43E-EE76-4323-962C-30BB988D0C2E@hathcock.org> Message-ID: If you are going to roll your own something like a raspberry PI would work. You can also build your own measurements with a platform like ripe atlas. It all depends if you want to run iperf3 tests or simple smokeping type of stuff to correlate errors. Jared Mauch > On Oct 3, 2015, at 6:27 PM, Lorell Hathcock wrote: > > Greetings, NANOG. Happy Saturday to all. > > I am running a DOCSIS network that has a noisy cable plant. I want to be able to substantiate and quantify users' bandwidth issues. I would like a set of inexpensive probes that I could place at selected customer's homes/businesses that would on a scheduled basis perform bandwidth tests. > > Likely I would need to place a server in the head end or across the internet that would allow me to isolate and test certain network segments. > > I've looked into these in the past and was presented with some wonderfully expensive units that would duplicate my network problems into company financial problems as well. > > Any ideas? I know there are other ways to measure noise in the cable plant and I am working on those as well. I will soon be running other, non-DOCSIS networks and need to have the same capabilities to test available bandwidth on those networks. > > Thanks! > > Lorell Hathcock > > Sent from my iPad From jerome at fleury.net Sat Oct 3 22:51:47 2015 From: jerome at fleury.net (=?UTF-8?B?SsOpcsO0bWUgRmxldXJ5?=) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2015 15:51:47 -0700 Subject: How to force rapid ipv6 adoption In-Reply-To: <5E0F32BF-74D1-4DD2-B142-234561BD7D28@delong.com> References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560D9DD0.2030904@Janoszka.pl> <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE@delong.com> <20151001222813.B9469391102B@rock.dv.isc.org> <20151001232613.GD123100@rootmail.cc.le.ac.uk> <20151002000125.9CD573911EF5@rock.dv.isc.org> <5E0F32BF-74D1-4DD2-B142-234561BD7D28@delong.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Oct 3, 2015 at 12:22 PM, Owen DeLong wrote: > So the problem you are suggesting we focus on is mostly a solved problem. > Content Providers are progressing, modulo some serious laggards, notably > Amazon and a few others. > > newly released IOS9 and OSX El Capitan add some serious latency for v4 only content, see: https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/v6ops/current/msg22455.html I'm expecting all content providers to jump on the IPv6 train now that they're behind. From johnl at iecc.com Sun Oct 4 00:56:53 2015 From: johnl at iecc.com (John Levine) Date: 4 Oct 2015 00:56:53 -0000 Subject: Inexpensive probes for automated bandwidth testing purposes In-Reply-To: <37DBA43E-EE76-4323-962C-30BB988D0C2E@hathcock.org> Message-ID: <20151004005653.15395.qmail@ary.lan> In article <37DBA43E-EE76-4323-962C-30BB988D0C2E at hathcock.org> you write: >Greetings, NANOG. Happy Saturday to all. > >I am running a DOCSIS network that has a noisy cable plant. I want to be able to substantiate and quantify users' bandwidth issues. I would >like a set of inexpensive probes that I could place at selected customer's homes/businesses that would on a scheduled basis perform bandwidth >tests. The RIPE Atlas project uses TP-Link TL-MR3020 minirouters reprogramed to be network probes collecting data not unlike what you're interested in. They are $28 apiece at Amazon so I'd expect them to be under $20 in any quantity. RIPE gives away the source code here: https://atlas.ripe.net/get-involved/source-code/ R's, John From Valdis.Kletnieks at vt.edu Sun Oct 4 01:04:58 2015 From: Valdis.Kletnieks at vt.edu (Valdis.Kletnieks at vt.edu) Date: Sat, 03 Oct 2015 21:04:58 -0400 Subject: Bandwidth estimation question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42255.1443920698@turing-police.cc.vt.edu> On Fri, 02 Oct 2015 20:04:50 -0700, JoeSox said: > Does anyone know how much traffic a 'media blitz' (for lack of a better > word) generates? We had a tragic incident on campus in 2007. Our dual 1G's died right away, and we hurried to deploy an in-progress 10G link install that day, and *that* barely kept up with the hits even when we stripped the webpage down to about 20K of static text. Unfortunately for humanity and fortunately for your bandwidth budget, a peace price is unlikely to generate as much traffic as tragedy. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 848 bytes Desc: not available URL: From baldur.norddahl at gmail.com Sun Oct 4 01:52:05 2015 From: baldur.norddahl at gmail.com (Baldur Norddahl) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2015 03:52:05 +0200 Subject: Android and DHCPv6 again Message-ID: Hi I noticed that my Nexus 9 tablet did not have any IPv6 although everything else in my house is IPv6 enabled. Then I noticed that my Samsung S6 was also without IPv6. Hmm. A little work with tcpdump and I got this: 03:27:15.978826 IP6 (hlim 255, next-header ICMPv6 (58) payload length: 120) fe80::222:7ff:fe49:ffad > ip6-allnodes: [icmp6 sum ok] ICMP6, router advertisement, length 120 hop limit 0, Flags [*managed*, other stateful], pref medium, router lifetime 1800s, reachable time 0s, retrans time 0s source link-address option (1), length 8 (1): 00:22:07:49:ff:ad mtu option (5), length 8 (1): 1500 prefix info option (3), length 32 (4): 2a00:7660:5c6::/64, Flags [onlink, *auto*], valid time 7040s, pref. time 1800s unknown option (24), length 16 (2): 0x0000: 3000 0000 1b80 2a00 7660 05c6 0000 So my CPE is actually doing DHCPv6 and some nice people at Google decided that it will be better for me to be without IPv6 in that case :-(. But it also has the auto flag, so Android should be able to do SLAAC yes? My Macbook Pro currently has the following set of addresses: en0: flags=8863 mtu 1500 ether 3c:15:c2:ba:76:d4 inet6 fe80::3e15:c2ff:feba:76d4%en0 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x4 inet 192.168.1.214 netmask 0xffffff00 broadcast 192.168.1.255 inet6 2a00:7660:5c6::3e15:c2ff:feba:76d4 prefixlen 64 autoconf inet6 2a00:7660:5c6::b5a5:5839:ca0f:267e prefixlen 64 autoconf temporary inet6 2a00:7660:5c6::899 prefixlen 64 dynamic nd6 options=1 media: autoselect status: active To me it seems that the Macbook has one SLAAC address, one privacy extension address and one DHCPv6 managed address. In fact the CPE manufacturer is a little clever here. They gave me an easy address that I can use to access my computer ("899") while still allowing SLAAC and privacy extensions. If I want to open ports in my firewall I could do that to the "899" address. But why is my Android devices without IPv6 in this setup? Regards, Baldur From charlesg at unixrealm.com Sun Oct 4 02:05:20 2015 From: charlesg at unixrealm.com (charlesg at unixrealm.com) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2015 19:05:20 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000047763694$55946362$8f07582f$@unixrealm.com> Hello! New message, please read charlesg at unixrealm.com From charlesg at unixrealm.com Sun Oct 4 02:05:04 2015 From: charlesg at unixrealm.com (Charles Gagnon) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2015 19:05:04 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000a7ea108b$3a2be4e9$454aba85$@unixrealm.com> Hello! New message, please read Charles Gagnon From joelja at bogus.com Sun Oct 4 02:25:28 2015 From: joelja at bogus.com (joel jaeggli) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2015 19:25:28 -0700 Subject: Bandwidth estimation question In-Reply-To: <42255.1443920698@turing-police.cc.vt.edu> References: <42255.1443920698@turing-police.cc.vt.edu> Message-ID: <56108E18.5030301@bogus.com> On 10/3/15 6:04 PM, Valdis.Kletnieks at vt.edu wrote: > On Fri, 02 Oct 2015 20:04:50 -0700, JoeSox said: > >> Does anyone know how much traffic a 'media blitz' (for lack of a better >> word) generates? Disclaimer I work for a CDN of but I'm a former consumer of such services as well. if you have recourse to a CDN it can be farily straight forward to shift the serving of resources to or away from it in reponse to demand. if you have an existing setup with a CDN, control of your DNS, reasonably short TTLs, and decent seperation of resource names from the physical machines on which they reside this can be done without anticipation, rather quickly. It's cheap and easy enough to experiment with a least some of these services that you can experiment with them for little or sometimes no cost prior to employing them. joel > We had a tragic incident on campus in 2007. Our dual 1G's died right > away, and we hurried to deploy an in-progress 10G link install that day, and > *that* barely kept up with the hits even when we stripped the webpage down > to about 20K of static text. > > Unfortunately for humanity and fortunately for your bandwidth budget, > a peace price is unlikely to generate as much traffic as tragedy. > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 229 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From owen at delong.com Sun Oct 4 03:00:19 2015 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2015 20:00:19 -0700 Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: References: <20151003.115707.448347413282905946.wwaites@tardis.ed.ac.uk> Message-ID: <7E645C67-2F5C-4CA0-9C0E-1BA41AF24ABC@delong.com> The race is on? One or more of these things will be the death of IPv4: 1. Not enough addresses 2. Routing Table Bloat due to one or more of: A. Traffic Engineering B. Stupid configuration C. Address Fragmentation through transfers and microallocations of ?Transition space? D. Stupid network designs (where the physical deployment forces something like B rather than just software stupidity) 3. Some highly desirable feature or application which simply can?t be implemented effectively on IPv4. As such, I say go ahead and route whatever. ARIN provides a nice constrained prefix for these transitional allocations so you can at least limit the bloat from that factor, but even at the /24 level, we?re faced with upwards of 16 million routes that we are nowhere near ready to handle. In case you haven?t been paying attention for the last 25 years, there are a number of ways in which IPv4 DOES NOT SCALE. We?ve been keeping it alive on life support for a VERY LONG time. As with all patients on life support, the longer it continues, the more it becomes a losing battle and the harder (and more resource intensive and more expensive) it becomes to keep the patient alive. Fortunately, in this case, we have a nice new body that we can transplant the internet into that has many fruitful years ahead of it. So? Do whatever you have to to survive in the meantime, but focus on getting your stuff onto the IPv6 internet so that we can all let IPv4 go gently into that good night and have it?s well deserved final rest. Owen > On Oct 3, 2015, at 06:18 , Baldur Norddahl wrote: > > Except we might very well reach 1+ million routes soon without accepting > longer prefixes than /24. Also route updates is a concern - do I really > need to be informed every time someone on the other end of the world resets > a link? > > On 3 October 2015 at 12:57, William Waites wrote: > >> On Sat, 3 Oct 2015 12:42:01 +0200, Baldur Norddahl < >> baldur.norddahl at gmail.com> said: >> >>> 2 million routes will not be enough if we go full /27. This is >>> not a scalable solution. Something else is needed to provide >>> multihoming for small networks (LISP?). >> >> It's not too far off though. One way of looking at it is, for each >> extra bit we allow, we potentially double the table size. So with 500k >> routes and a /24 limit now, we might expect 4 million with /27. Not >> exactly because it depends strongly on the distribution of prefix >> lengths, but probably not a bad guess. >> >> Also there are optimisations that I wonder if the vendors are doing to >> preserve TCAM such as aggregating adjacent networks with the same next >> hop into the supernet. That would mitigate the impact of wanton >> deaggregation at least and the algorithm doesn't look too hard. Do the >> big iron vendors do this? >> >> -w >> >> -- >> William Waites | School of Informatics >> http://tardis.ed.ac.uk/~wwaites/ | University of Edinburgh >> https://hubs.net.uk/ | HUBS AS60241 >> >> The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in >> Scotland, with registration number SC005336. >> From nsptca at gmail.com Sun Oct 4 03:12:17 2015 From: nsptca at gmail.com (Lee Clark) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2015 21:12:17 -0600 Subject: Telus ADSL IPv6 Roll Out Message-ID: > Looks like Telus is rolling out IPv6 to their ADSL customers. >If the /64 is on the inside (and not part of a larger supernet, say a /48) then there is little cause for celebration, as you will be limited to one (1) IPv6 subnet in the home. /56 PD. /64 assigned to the CPE LAN interface(s). IA_NA is not implemented (yet). Regards, Lee From owen at delong.com Sun Oct 4 03:19:01 2015 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2015 20:19:01 -0700 Subject: How to wish you hadn't forced ipv6 adoption (was "How to force rapid ipv6 adoption") In-Reply-To: References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560D9DD0.2030904@Janoszka.pl> <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE@delong.com> <20151001222813.B9469391102B@rock.dv.isc.org> <20151001232613.GD123100@rootmail.cc.le.ac.uk> <20151002000125.9CD573911EF5@rock.dv.isc.org> <560DF4BA.5000500@invaluement.com> <20151002034402.1201F39225D0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560E00D4.7090400@invaluement.com> <20151002041858.984713922C86@rock.dv.isc.org> <560E0C44.5060002@invaluement.com> <3A415E75-7394-4DB7-846E-424A3808200B@delong.com> Message-ID: > On Oct 3, 2015, at 14:01 , William Herrin wrote: > > On Sat, Oct 3, 2015 at 10:35 AM, Scott Morizot wrote: >> One of the points in having 64 bits reserved for the host >> portion of the address is that you never need to think or worry about >> individual addresses > > Well, that turned out to be a farce. Instead of worrying about running > out of addresses on the lan, you have to worry about other people > tracking your mobile users through their static 64 bit tail (SLAAC) or > having trouble internally tracking your users (privacy extensions). > Give me the straightforward problem over the subtle one any time. Both of these are solved through network-hashed persistent IPv6 privacy addresses. Owen From matthias at leisi.net Sun Oct 4 13:40:28 2015 From: matthias at leisi.net (Matthias Leisi) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2015 15:40:28 +0200 Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: <7E645C67-2F5C-4CA0-9C0E-1BA41AF24ABC@delong.com> References: <20151003.115707.448347413282905946.wwaites@tardis.ed.ac.uk> <7E645C67-2F5C-4CA0-9C0E-1BA41AF24ABC@delong.com> Message-ID: > One or more of these things will be the death of IPv4: IPv4 will not die, it will be superseded by something better :) What I have found to be the greatest obstacle to IPv6 adoption is the state of IPv6 support in various types of CPEs / network equipment. The support is mostly OK in higher-end gear. But have you checked the support in home- or small-office devices? In the handful of devices I recently had to deal with, IPv6 is always at best a ?second class citizen?. First, there is some GUI for setup around IPv4. Then, if you are lucky, there are some poorly and inconsistently labelled ?Advanced? settings that may or may not enable IPv6. Or may enable some semi-consistent state that has been in an obscure lab setup once upon a time. The built-in VPN which only supports IPv4 (that one specifically on an Asus router). A printer that behaves differently at different times under IPv4 than under IPv6. A NAS that works with IPv6 - *most* of the time. While I can personally work around most of these issues, it simply does not scale to even a small office environment with some semi-technical people. That?s basic stuff that just needs to work, regardless of whether it runs on IPv4 or IPv6. > Fortunately, in this case, we have a nice new body that we can transplant the internet into that has many fruitful years ahead > of it. So? Do whatever you have to to survive in the meantime, but focus on getting your stuff onto the IPv6 internet so that > we can all let IPv4 go gently into that good night and have it?s well deserved final rest. Fully agree. But the current state of IPv6 outside "professional? networks/devices is sincerely limited by a lot of poor CPE and consumer device implementations. ? Matthias -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 4109 bytes Desc: not available URL: From askoorb+nanog at gmail.com Sun Oct 4 13:44:43 2015 From: askoorb+nanog at gmail.com (Alex Brooks) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2015 14:44:43 +0100 Subject: Inexpensive probes for automated bandwidth testing purposes In-Reply-To: <20151004005653.15395.qmail@ary.lan> References: <37DBA43E-EE76-4323-962C-30BB988D0C2E@hathcock.org> <20151004005653.15395.qmail@ary.lan> Message-ID: Hi, On Sun, Oct 4, 2015 at 1:56 AM, John Levine wrote: > In article <37DBA43E-EE76-4323-962C-30BB988D0C2E at hathcock.org> you write: >>Greetings, NANOG. Happy Saturday to all. >> >>I am running a DOCSIS network that has a noisy cable plant. I want to be able to substantiate and quantify users' bandwidth issues. I would >>like a set of inexpensive probes that I could place at selected customer's homes/businesses that would on a scheduled basis perform bandwidth >>tests. > > The RIPE Atlas project uses TP-Link TL-MR3020 minirouters reprogramed > to be network probes collecting data not unlike what you're interested > in. They are $28 apiece at Amazon so I'd expect them to be under $20 > in any quantity. > > RIPE gives away the source code here: > > https://atlas.ripe.net/get-involved/source-code/ As well as the RIPE atlas (which is an excellent project), there is also the SamKnows whitebox; the device used by the FCC (Measuring Broadband America), CRTC, Ofcom and the EU Commission for their consumer broadband monitoring projects. They are also more than happy to work directly with ISPs if you want to buy a few boxes off them, and are currently working with some of the larger providers to embed their monitoring technology within consumer CPEs. Have a look at https://www.samknows.com/infrastructure. Alex From A.L.M.Buxey at lboro.ac.uk Sun Oct 4 14:02:32 2015 From: A.L.M.Buxey at lboro.ac.uk (Alan Buxey) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2015 15:02:32 +0100 Subject: Inexpensive probes for automated bandwidth testing purposes In-Reply-To: <37DBA43E-EE76-4323-962C-30BB988D0C2E@hathcock.org> References: <37DBA43E-EE76-4323-962C-30BB988D0C2E@hathcock.org> Message-ID: <0D5D05FB-654E-42EF-B266-0B2F8D7A8705@lboro.ac.uk> One of the small microPC solutions. Depending on what you want to test (eg bandwidth) you may find platforms like raspberrypi too limited. Intel NUC or LIVA platforms? https://www.perfsonar.net/deploy/hardware-selection/low-cost-hardware/ alan From mel at beckman.org Sun Oct 4 14:27:27 2015 From: mel at beckman.org (Mel Beckman) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2015 14:27:27 +0000 Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: References: <20151003.115707.448347413282905946.wwaites@tardis.ed.ac.uk> <7E645C67-2F5C-4CA0-9C0E-1BA41AF24ABC@delong.com>, Message-ID: Keep in mind that IPv6 has IPSec VPN built into the protocol. It doesn't need to be in the router. Unlike IPv4, where the IPSec VPN protocol is an add-on, optional service, with IPv6 it's built into every device, because IPsec is a mandatory component for IPv6, and therefore, the IPsec security model is required to be supported for all IPv6 implementations. Thus it is a true end-to-end secure transport between two nodes -- even when those nodes are behind a firewall. You can still created IPv6 VPNs from site-to-site (called "tunnel mode"), but the idea with IPv6 is that since you can directly encrypt every TCP session, eventually the need for tunnels will diminish, if not go away completely. Interestingly, IPsec came out of funding from Clinton administration for securely hosting the whitehouse.gov email server. Trusted Information Systems software engineer Wei Xu started researching IP security methods in July 1994, and ultimately developed the first rendition of IPSec. He ported it to several server OSes of the time. -mel beckman > On Oct 4, 2015, at 6:41 AM, Matthias Leisi wrote: > > The built-in VPN which only supports IPv4 (that one specifically on an Asus router). From sthaug at nethelp.no Sun Oct 4 14:41:20 2015 From: sthaug at nethelp.no (sthaug at nethelp.no) Date: Sun, 04 Oct 2015 16:41:20 +0200 (CEST) Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: References: <7E645C67-2F5C-4CA0-9C0E-1BA41AF24ABC@delong.com> Message-ID: <20151004.164120.41639562.sthaug@nethelp.no> > Keep in mind that IPv6 has IPSec VPN built into the protocol. It doesn't need to be in the router. > > Unlike IPv4, where the IPSec VPN protocol is an add-on, optional service, with IPv6 it's built into every device, because IPsec is a mandatory component for IPv6, and therefore, the IPsec security model is required to be supported for all IPv6 implementations. If you really believe all IPv6 devices support IPsec, I can only conclude that your IPv6 experience is limited... Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, sthaug at nethelp.no From list at satchell.net Sun Oct 4 14:49:00 2015 From: list at satchell.net (Stephen Satchell) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2015 07:49:00 -0700 Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: References: <20151003.115707.448347413282905946.wwaites@tardis.ed.ac.uk> <7E645C67-2F5C-4CA0-9C0E-1BA41AF24ABC@delong.com> Message-ID: <56113C5C.8050702@satchell.net> On 10/04/2015 06:40 AM, Matthias Leisi wrote: > Fully agree. But the current state of IPv6 outside "professional? > networks/devices is sincerely limited by a lot of poor CPE and > consumer device implementations. I have to ask: where is the book _IPv6 for Dummies_ or equivalent? Specifically, is http://www.xnetworks.es/contents/Infoblox/IPv6forDummies.pdf any good? (I just downloaded it to inspect.) My bookshelf is full of books describing IPv4. Saying "IPv6 just works" ignores the issues of configuring intelligent firewalls to block the ne-er-do-wells using the new IP-level protocol. In Robert L. Ziegler's book _Linux Firewalls_ Second Edition (2002, ISBN 0-7357-1099-6), the *only* mention of IPv6 is in the discussion of NAT, and that discussion is limited to "NAT is a stopgap until IPv6 achieves wide implementation. A preview of the Third Edition fails to mention ip6tables at all, the same lack that the Second Edition has. I use CentOS, the community version of Red Hat Enterprise. I looked around for useful books on building IPv6 firewalls with the same granularity as the above-mentioned book for IPv4, and haven't found anything useful as yet. In particular, I'm looking for material that lays out how to build a mostly-closed firewall and DMZ in IPv6. The lack of IPv6 support goes further: I didn't find anything useful in Red Hat (CentOS) firewall tools that provides IPv6 support...but that's probably because I don't know what I'm looking for. (Also, that GUI software is intended for use on individual servers/computers, not in a edge-firewall with forwarding and DMZ responsibilities.) Building a secure firewall takes more than just knowing how to issue ip6table commands; one also needs to know exactly what goes into those commands. NANOG concentrates on network operators who need to provide a good Internet experience to all their downstream customers, which is why I see the bias toward openness...as it should be. Those of us who run edge networks have different problems to solve. I'm not asking NANOG to go past its charter, but I am asking the IPv6 fanatics on this mailing list to recognize that, even though the net itself may be running IPv6, the support and education infrastructure is still behind the curve. Reading RFCs is good, reading man pages is good, but there is no guidance about how to implement end-network policies in the wild yet...at least not that I've been able to find. "ipv6.disable" will be changed to zero when I know how to set the firewall to implement the policies I need to keep other edge networks from disrupting mine. From mel at beckman.org Sun Oct 4 14:52:27 2015 From: mel at beckman.org (Mel Beckman) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2015 14:52:27 +0000 Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: <20151004.164120.41639562.sthaug@nethelp.no> References: <7E645C67-2F5C-4CA0-9C0E-1BA41AF24ABC@delong.com> , <20151004.164120.41639562.sthaug@nethelp.no> Message-ID: <18661688-294A-4662-8380-DF6C2C490E6F@beckman.org> If it doesn't support IPSec, it's not really IPv6. Just as if it failed to support any other mandatory IPv6 specification, such as RA. There's really no excuse for not supporting IPSec, as it's a widely available open source component that costs nothing to incorporate into an IPv6 stack. Your observation simply means that users must be informed when buying IPv6 devices, just as they must with any product. You can buy either genuine IPv6 or half-baked IPv6 products. When I speak of IPv6, I speak only of the genuine article. -mel beckman On Oct 4, 2015, at 7:41 AM, "sthaug at nethelp.no" wrote: >> Keep in mind that IPv6 has IPSec VPN built into the protocol. It doesn't need to be in the router. >> >> Unlike IPv4, where the IPSec VPN protocol is an add-on, optional service, with IPv6 it's built into every device, because IPsec is a mandatory component for IPv6, and therefore, the IPsec security model is required to be supported for all IPv6 implementations. > > If you really believe all IPv6 devices support IPsec, I can only > conclude that your IPv6 experience is limited... > > Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, sthaug at nethelp.no From mel at beckman.org Sun Oct 4 14:54:42 2015 From: mel at beckman.org (Mel Beckman) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2015 14:54:42 +0000 Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: <56113C5C.8050702@satchell.net> References: <20151003.115707.448347413282905946.wwaites@tardis.ed.ac.uk> <7E645C67-2F5C-4CA0-9C0E-1BA41AF24ABC@delong.com> , <56113C5C.8050702@satchell.net> Message-ID: <69B29A97-B11B-44FA-8D0A-7DF2008C1977@beckman.org> I recommend any of a number of online courses for a quick understanding of IPv6. But nothing beats making your own IPv6 lab and getting hands-on experience. Here's a course I built walking you through that process: http://windowsitpro.com/build-your-own-ipv6-lab-and-become-ipv6-guru-demand -mel beckman > On Oct 4, 2015, at 7:49 AM, Stephen Satchell wrote: > >> On 10/04/2015 06:40 AM, Matthias Leisi wrote: >> Fully agree. But the current state of IPv6 outside "professional? >> networks/devices is sincerely limited by a lot of poor CPE and >> consumer device implementations. > > I have to ask: where is the book _IPv6 for Dummies_ or equivalent? > > Specifically, is http://www.xnetworks.es/contents/Infoblox/IPv6forDummies.pdf any good? (I just downloaded it to inspect.) > > My bookshelf is full of books describing IPv4. Saying "IPv6 just works" ignores the issues of configuring intelligent firewalls to block the ne-er-do-wells using the new IP-level protocol. > > In Robert L. Ziegler's book _Linux Firewalls_ Second Edition (2002, ISBN 0-7357-1099-6), the *only* mention of IPv6 is in the discussion of NAT, and that discussion is limited to "NAT is a stopgap until IPv6 achieves wide implementation. A preview of the Third Edition fails to mention ip6tables at all, the same lack that the Second Edition has. > > I use CentOS, the community version of Red Hat Enterprise. I looked around for useful books on building IPv6 firewalls with the same granularity as the above-mentioned book for IPv4, and haven't found anything useful as yet. In particular, I'm looking for material that lays out how to build a mostly-closed firewall and DMZ in IPv6. The lack of IPv6 support goes further: I didn't find anything useful in Red Hat (CentOS) firewall tools that provides IPv6 support...but that's probably because I don't know what I'm looking for. (Also, that GUI software is intended for use on individual servers/computers, not in a edge-firewall with forwarding and DMZ responsibilities.) > > Building a secure firewall takes more than just knowing how to issue ip6table commands; one also needs to know exactly what goes into those commands. NANOG concentrates on network operators who need to provide a good Internet experience to all their downstream customers, which is why I see the bias toward openness...as it should be. Those of us who run edge networks have different problems to solve. > > I'm not asking NANOG to go past its charter, but I am asking the IPv6 fanatics on this mailing list to recognize that, even though the net itself may be running IPv6, the support and education infrastructure is still behind the curve. Reading RFCs is good, reading man pages is good, but there is no guidance about how to implement end-network policies in the wild yet...at least not that I've been able to find. > > "ipv6.disable" will be changed to zero when I know how to set the firewall to implement the policies I need to keep other edge networks from disrupting mine. > From randy at psg.com Sun Oct 4 15:03:23 2015 From: randy at psg.com (Randy Bush) Date: Sun, 04 Oct 2015 11:03:23 -0400 Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: References: <20151003.115707.448347413282905946.wwaites@tardis.ed.ac.uk> <7E645C67-2F5C-4CA0-9C0E-1BA41AF24ABC@delong.com> Message-ID: > Keep in mind that IPv6 has IPSec VPN built into the protocol. yet another ipv6 fantasy. it may be in the powerpoint but it is not in the implementations. From randy at psg.com Sun Oct 4 15:04:58 2015 From: randy at psg.com (Randy Bush) Date: Sun, 04 Oct 2015 11:04:58 -0400 Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: <18661688-294A-4662-8380-DF6C2C490E6F@beckman.org> References: <7E645C67-2F5C-4CA0-9C0E-1BA41AF24ABC@delong.com> Message-ID: > If it doesn't support IPSec, it's not really IPv6. by that criterion, ipv6 deployment is effectively zero From jlewis at lewis.org Sun Oct 4 15:33:34 2015 From: jlewis at lewis.org (Jon Lewis) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2015 11:33:34 -0400 (EDT) Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: <18661688-294A-4662-8380-DF6C2C490E6F@beckman.org> References: <7E645C67-2F5C-4CA0-9C0E-1BA41AF24ABC@delong.com> , <20151004.164120.41639562.sthaug@nethelp.no> <18661688-294A-4662-8380-DF6C2C490E6F@beckman.org> Message-ID: On Sun, 4 Oct 2015, Mel Beckman wrote: > If it doesn't support IPSec, it's not really IPv6. Just as if it failed > to support any other mandatory IPv6 specification, such as RA. Go tell cisco that. IIRC, the first network I dual-stacked, I was kind of surprised when I found I could not use authentication in OSPFv3, because OSPFv3 assumes IPv6 will supply the IPSec to do auth...but these routers didn't support IPSec. They still managed to route IPv6 and support IPv6 customers...so it really was IPv6...just not the full suite of everything you'd expect from IPv6. > Your observation simply means that users must be informed when buying > IPv6 devices, just as they must with any product. You can buy either > genuine IPv6 or half-baked IPv6 products. When I speak of IPv6, I speak > only of the genuine article. Does anyone buy "IPv6 devices"? The biggest hurdle I've seen with IPv6 adoption (i.e. going dual-stack, with the idea that we'll gradually transition most things / most traffic from v4 to v6) is the number of end-user network providers that don't offer v6 at all. My home cable internet provider still doesn't offer IPv6. When I asked one of their support people about it recently, I was told not to worry, they have plenty of v4 addresses left, but it was implied that they do plan to start offering v6 sometime soon. They should have started rolling out IPv6 to any customers that wanted it years ago, so that by today, it would be standard for all their installations to be dual-stack. But here we are, nearly 2016, and they don't have a single IPv6 customer (AFAIK) yet. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Jon Lewis, MCP :) | I route | therefore you are _________ http://www.lewis.org/~jlewis/pgp for PGP public key_________ From mel at beckman.org Sun Oct 4 15:53:40 2015 From: mel at beckman.org (Mel Beckman) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2015 15:53:40 +0000 Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: References: <7E645C67-2F5C-4CA0-9C0E-1BA41AF24ABC@delong.com> , Message-ID: <6E25E030-F683-4362-95FB-D5EBBBE2B3A7@beckman.org> Randy, Your claim is a red herring. IPSec has nothing to do with IPv6 deployment. Deployment doesn't require global IPSec, which need only reside in endpoint nodes. It's not needed at all in the routjg and distribution infrastructure, which is where deployment happens The vast majority of IPv6 nodes -- which is where the IPSec requirement exists -- have IPSec built in: Linux, Mac OSX, and Windows. Devices that sometimes act as nodes, such as firewalls terminating IPSec tunnels, also obviously need IPSec. Devices that are simply IPv6 pass-through, such as consumer-grade routers, don't. Users can buy whatever level of functionality they need at the edges. If you don't need IPSec tunnel support in your firewall, you can buy one without it. Deployment cares nothing about IPSec. -mel beckman On Oct 4, 2015, at 8:05 AM, Randy Bush > wrote: If it doesn't support IPSec, it's not really IPv6. by that criterion, ipv6 deployment is effectively zero From mel at beckman.org Sun Oct 4 15:55:01 2015 From: mel at beckman.org (Mel Beckman) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2015 15:55:01 +0000 Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: References: <7E645C67-2F5C-4CA0-9C0E-1BA41AF24ABC@delong.com> , <20151004.164120.41639562.sthaug@nethelp.no> <18661688-294A-4662-8380-DF6C2C490E6F@beckman.org>, Message-ID: What Cisco routers, and what vintage IOS, are you finding have no IPSec support? I've not run into that problem. -mel beckman > On Oct 4, 2015, at 8:33 AM, Jon Lewis wrote: > >> On Sun, 4 Oct 2015, Mel Beckman wrote: >> >> If it doesn't support IPSec, it's not really IPv6. Just as if it failed to support any other mandatory IPv6 specification, such as RA. > > Go tell cisco that. IIRC, the first network I dual-stacked, I was kind of surprised when I found I could not use authentication in OSPFv3, because OSPFv3 assumes IPv6 will supply the IPSec to do auth...but these routers didn't support IPSec. They still managed to route IPv6 and support IPv6 customers...so it really was IPv6...just not the full suite of everything you'd expect from IPv6. > >> Your observation simply means that users must be informed when buying IPv6 devices, just as they must with any product. You can buy either genuine IPv6 or half-baked IPv6 products. When I speak of IPv6, I speak only of the genuine article. > > Does anyone buy "IPv6 devices"? > > The biggest hurdle I've seen with IPv6 adoption (i.e. going dual-stack, with the idea that we'll gradually transition most things / most traffic from v4 to v6) is the number of end-user network providers that don't offer v6 at all. My home cable internet provider still doesn't offer IPv6. When I asked one of their support people about it recently, I was told not to worry, they have plenty of v4 addresses left, but it was implied that they do plan to start offering v6 sometime soon. They should have started rolling out IPv6 to any customers that wanted it years ago, so that by today, it would be standard for all their installations to be dual-stack. But here we are, nearly 2016, and they don't have a single IPv6 customer (AFAIK) yet. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Jon Lewis, MCP :) | I route > | therefore you are > _________ http://www.lewis.org/~jlewis/pgp for PGP public key_________ From sander at steffann.nl Sun Oct 4 15:58:26 2015 From: sander at steffann.nl (Sander Steffann) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2015 17:58:26 +0200 Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: <18661688-294A-4662-8380-DF6C2C490E6F@beckman.org> References: <7E645C67-2F5C-4CA0-9C0E-1BA41AF24ABC@delong.com> <20151004.164120.41639562.sthaug@nethelp.no> <18661688-294A-4662-8380-DF6C2C490E6F@beckman.org> Message-ID: <0A996CED-4AF7-4193-8AA2-701AFB4C26A7@steffann.nl> Hi, > Op 4 okt. 2015, om 16:52 heeft Mel Beckman het volgende geschreven: > > If it doesn't support IPSec, it's not really IPv6. Just as if it failed to support any other mandatory IPv6 specification, such as RA. I think you're still looking at an old version of the IPv6 Node Requirements. Check https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6434#section-11, specifically this bit: """ Previously, IPv6 mandated implementation of IPsec and recommended the key management approach of IKE. This document updates that recommendation by making support of the IPsec Architecture a SHOULD for all IPv6 nodes. """ This was published in December 2011. Cheers, Sander From randy at psg.com Sun Oct 4 16:11:15 2015 From: randy at psg.com (Randy Bush) Date: Sun, 04 Oct 2015 12:11:15 -0400 Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: References: <7E645C67-2F5C-4CA0-9C0E-1BA41AF24ABC@delong.com> Message-ID: i give < plonk > From springer at inlandnet.com Sun Oct 4 16:41:24 2015 From: springer at inlandnet.com (John Springer) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2015 09:41:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Agenda In-Reply-To: References: <7E645C67-2F5C-4CA0-9C0E-1BA41AF24ABC@delong.com> Message-ID: The times for tonight's event differ from the guidebook to the online version @ nanog nanog 6-8PM guidebook 7-11PM Which is correct? From betty at nanog.org Sun Oct 4 16:43:46 2015 From: betty at nanog.org (Betty Burke ) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2015 12:43:46 -0400 Subject: Agenda In-Reply-To: References: <7E645C67-2F5C-4CA0-9C0E-1BA41AF24ABC@delong.com> Message-ID: Thanks John for letting us know we will get fixed asap ... the time is Sunday, October 4 Sponsored by: Resolve Systems Time: 6:00pm - 8:00pm Where: Moxie's, 1207 Robert-Bourassa Boulevard, Montreal - See more at: https://www.nanog.org/node/1624#sthash.YBeEXhC3.dpuf Betty J. Burke NANOG Executive Director 2864 Carpenter Rd., Ste 100 Ann Arbor, MI 48108 +1 866-902-1336 On Sun, Oct 4, 2015 at 12:41 PM, John Springer wrote: > The times for tonight's event differ from the guidebook to the online > version @ nanog > > nanog 6-8PM > guidebook 7-11PM > > Which is correct? > From xxnog at ledeuns.net Sun Oct 4 17:39:26 2015 From: xxnog at ledeuns.net (Denis Fondras) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2015 19:39:26 +0200 Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: <56113C5C.8050702@satchell.net> References: <20151003.115707.448347413282905946.wwaites@tardis.ed.ac.uk> <7E645C67-2F5C-4CA0-9C0E-1BA41AF24ABC@delong.com> <56113C5C.8050702@satchell.net> Message-ID: <20151004173926.GF17209@enforcer.ledeuns.net> > Building a secure firewall takes more than just knowing how to issue > ip6table commands; one also needs to know exactly what goes into those > commands. NANOG concentrates on network operators who need to provide a > good Internet experience to all their downstream customers, which is why I > see the bias toward openness...as it should be. Those of us who run edge > networks have different problems to solve. > NIST has very good publication on this subject : http://csrc.nist.gov/publications/nistpubs/800-119/sp800-119.pdf (Table 3-7 is a must read for any IPv6 newbie) Denis From nick at foobar.org Sun Oct 4 17:49:20 2015 From: nick at foobar.org (Nick Hilliard) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2015 18:49:20 +0100 Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: References: <20151003.115707.448347413282905946.wwaites@tardis.ed.ac.uk> <7E645C67-2F5C-4CA0-9C0E-1BA41AF24ABC@delong.com> Message-ID: <561166A0.6000305@foobar.org> On 04/10/2015 16:03, Randy Bush wrote: > yet another ipv6 fantasy. it may be in the powerpoint but it is not in > the implementations. the ipsec tickbox was removed from ipv6 in rfc6434 (2011). Nick From bzs at world.std.com Sun Oct 4 17:52:39 2015 From: bzs at world.std.com (Barry Shein) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2015 13:52:39 -0400 Subject: How to wish you hadn't forced ipv6 adoption (was "How to force rapid ipv6 adoption") In-Reply-To: <56101E3D.7000303@invaluement.com> References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560D9DD0.2030904@Janoszka.pl> <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE@delong.com> <20151001222813.B9469391102B@rock.dv.isc.org> <20151001232613.GD123100@rootmail.cc.le.ac.uk> <20151002000125.9CD573911EF5@rock.dv.isc.org> <560DF4BA.5000500@invaluement.com> <20151002034402.1201F39225D0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560E00D4.7090400@invaluement.com> <20151002041858.984713922C86@rock.dv.isc.org> <560E0C44.5060002@invaluement.com> <3A415E75-7394-4DB7-846E-424A3808200B@delong.com> <56101E3D.7000303@invaluement.com> Message-ID: <22033.26471.488959.284668@world.std.com> >From the time we began to take the idea of an address runout seriously in the early 90s to the actual address runout which would be just about now new priorities arose such as spam which I'll say really got going in the late 90s. There were others such as the potential routing table explosion which no doubt got passing notice from the start but I think it's safe to say has been looming more and more as a potential big problem in recent years. And security & privacy which perhaps something like an IPv6 couldn't much solve, most of that is higher in the stack, but then again maybe not. Didn't OSI have some sort of L2 credentials passing? That's all difficult to debate if for no other reason than one says "security" and several different definitions and priorities pop into people's heads ranging from low-level issues such as ddos and spoofing and simple sniff and MITM avoidance to what it might mean to a bank security officer or credit card undewriter or an individual at risk. And spam and phishing and all that. Oh and toss intellectual property rights management on the fire because it casts such a lovely glow. This has been a moving target and a canvas on which to paint each now and evolving challenge of a technology which has grown into ubiquity. Around 1992 when IPv6 was just picking up steam the net engineering community was pretty happy if an email got delivered in well under a minute and an FTP went smoothly. Words like congestion and route flapping could take up entire career paths. I think we need to stop replaying history like what if there weren't a Russian winter and just press forward. -- -Barry Shein The World | bzs at TheWorld.com | http://www.TheWorld.com Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 800-THE-WRLD | Dial-Up: US, PR, Canada Software Tool & Die | Public Access Internet | SINCE 1989 *oo* From mel at beckman.org Sun Oct 4 18:15:04 2015 From: mel at beckman.org (Mel Beckman) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2015 18:15:04 +0000 Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: <0A996CED-4AF7-4193-8AA2-701AFB4C26A7@steffann.nl> References: <7E645C67-2F5C-4CA0-9C0E-1BA41AF24ABC@delong.com> <20151004.164120.41639562.sthaug@nethelp.no> <18661688-294A-4662-8380-DF6C2C490E6F@beckman.org> <0A996CED-4AF7-4193-8AA2-701AFB4C26A7@steffann.nl> Message-ID: <7D65285B-EA76-4A8F-8437-8B0F0212C211@beckman.org> Stefann, You're right. I remember hearing rumblings of vendors requesting this change, mostly because embedded processors of the time had difficulty performing well with IPv6. I see that in 2011 rfc6434 lowered IPSec from "must" to "should". Nevertheless, plenty of products produced before 2011 included IPSec and the vast majority of IPv6-capable nodes on the Internet have it today. Performance is no longer an issue. -mel beckman > On Oct 4, 2015, at 8:58 AM, Sander Steffann wrote: > > Hi, > >> Op 4 okt. 2015, om 16:52 heeft Mel Beckman het volgende geschreven: >> >> If it doesn't support IPSec, it's not really IPv6. Just as if it failed to support any other mandatory IPv6 specification, such as RA. > > I think you're still looking at an old version of the IPv6 Node Requirements. Check https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6434#section-11, specifically this bit: > > """ > Previously, IPv6 mandated implementation of IPsec and recommended the key management approach of IKE. This document updates that recommendation by making support of the IPsec Architecture a SHOULD for all IPv6 nodes. > """ > > This was published in December 2011. > > Cheers, > Sander > From jra at baylink.com Sun Oct 4 18:30:00 2015 From: jra at baylink.com (Jay Ashworth) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2015 14:30:00 -0400 (EDT) Subject: HTTP/2.0 to ship in weeks Message-ID: <8902536.674.1443983400683.JavaMail.root@benjamin.baylink.com> We all knew about this, right? http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/02/http2-finished-coming-to-browsers-within-weeks/ One - few - many - all? What's that? Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth Baylink jra at baylink.com Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100 Ashworth & Associates http://www.bcp38.info 2000 Land Rover DII St Petersburg FL USA BCP38: Ask For It By Name! +1 727 647 1274 From jra at baylink.com Sun Oct 4 18:37:41 2015 From: jra at baylink.com (Jay Ashworth) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2015 14:37:41 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Disregard: HTTP/2.0 to ship in weeks In-Reply-To: <8902536.674.1443983400683.JavaMail.root@benjamin.baylink.com> Message-ID: <19455751.676.1443983861441.JavaMail.root@benjamin.baylink.com> Damnit. Apologies everyone; no clue why Ars was pushing that *now*, 6 months after its dateline. ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jay Ashworth" > To: "NANOG" > Sent: Sunday, October 4, 2015 2:30:00 PM > Subject: HTTP/2.0 to ship in weeks > We all knew about this, right? > > http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/02/http2-finished-coming-to-browsers-within-weeks/ > > One - few - many - all? What's that? > > Cheers, > -- jra > > -- > Jay R. Ashworth Baylink jra at baylink.com > Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100 > Ashworth & Associates http://www.bcp38.info 2000 Land Rover DII > St Petersburg FL USA BCP38: Ask For It By Name! +1 727 647 1274 -- Jay R. Ashworth Baylink jra at baylink.com Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100 Ashworth & Associates http://www.bcp38.info 2000 Land Rover DII St Petersburg FL USA BCP38: Ask For It By Name! +1 727 647 1274 From jra at baylink.com Sun Oct 4 18:42:05 2015 From: jra at baylink.com (Jay Ashworth) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2015 14:42:05 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [outages] Akamai Cert Issues today In-Reply-To: <96e90bcc6ee5c8d24455f58163e039ee@coolhandluke.org> Message-ID: <33190431.678.1443984125928.JavaMail.root@benjamin.baylink.com> ----- Original Message ----- > From: "coolhandluke via Outages" > > -We're wondering what happened yesterday to break all these > > disparate > > websites > note that this is *by design*, as sean pointed out. > > the "fix" is simple: don't use https on www.irs.gov. any ssl pages > served by the irs as served on different hostnames. > > as to why your users just started it, nfi. my best guess is that they > weren't using https previously. Well, "more people may be using HTTPS-Anywhere" may have something to do with it. Or, it might be that some new browser release just enabled HTTP/2.0, which in many implementations *requires* SSL and might also trip this, as noted in a posting on the topic which I just inadvertantly posted to this same mailing list 5 minutes ago. :-) Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth Baylink jra at baylink.com Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100 Ashworth & Associates http://www.bcp38.info 2000 Land Rover DII St Petersburg FL USA BCP38: Ask For It By Name! +1 727 647 1274 From jlewis at lewis.org Sun Oct 4 18:48:09 2015 From: jlewis at lewis.org (Jon Lewis) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2015 14:48:09 -0400 (EDT) Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: References: <7E645C67-2F5C-4CA0-9C0E-1BA41AF24ABC@delong.com> , <20151004.164120.41639562.sthaug@nethelp.no> <18661688-294A-4662-8380-DF6C2C490E6F@beckman.org>, Message-ID: sup720-3bxl, but this was a number of years ago. I don't recall the exact version. It was probably 12.2SXI-something. On Sun, 4 Oct 2015, Mel Beckman wrote: > What Cisco routers, and what vintage IOS, are you finding have no IPSec support? I've not run into that problem. > > -mel beckman > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Jon Lewis, MCP :) | I route | therefore you are _________ http://www.lewis.org/~jlewis/pgp for PGP public key_________ From mel at beckman.org Sun Oct 4 20:11:41 2015 From: mel at beckman.org (Mel Beckman) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2015 20:11:41 +0000 Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: References: <7E645C67-2F5C-4CA0-9C0E-1BA41AF24ABC@delong.com> , <20151004.164120.41639562.sthaug@nethelp.no> <18661688-294A-4662-8380-DF6C2C490E6F@beckman.org>, , Message-ID: A lot has changed since 12.2 :) I believe all shipping gear supports IPSec in IPv6. -mel beckman > On Oct 4, 2015, at 11:48 AM, Jon Lewis wrote: > > sup720-3bxl, but this was a number of years ago. I don't recall the exact version. It was probably 12.2SXI-something. > >> On Sun, 4 Oct 2015, Mel Beckman wrote: >> >> What Cisco routers, and what vintage IOS, are you finding have no IPSec support? I've not run into that problem. >> >> -mel beckman >> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Jon Lewis, MCP :) | I route > | therefore you are > _________ http://www.lewis.org/~jlewis/pgp for PGP public key_________ From pavel.odintsov at gmail.com Sun Oct 4 21:03:36 2015 From: pavel.odintsov at gmail.com (Pavel Odintsov) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2015 00:03:36 +0300 Subject: Looking for upstream provider with BGP Flow Spec support / RFC 5575 Message-ID: Hello, dear Nanog Community! I'm looking for upstreams with BGP Flow Spec / RFC 5575 support in US (West and East coast are welcome). We have implemented support for BGP Flow Spec traffic filtering in our own open source DDoS detection toolkit and using it on our own MX routers. Works really well. But we are experiencing so much attacks on channel overflow and want to lock part of traffic on upstream's side. Thanks! -- Sincerely yours, Pavel Odintsov From bross at pobox.com Sun Oct 4 21:28:14 2015 From: bross at pobox.com (Brandon Ross) Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2015 17:28:14 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Inexpensive probes for automated bandwidth testing purposes In-Reply-To: <37DBA43E-EE76-4323-962C-30BB988D0C2E@hathcock.org> References: <37DBA43E-EE76-4323-962C-30BB988D0C2E@hathcock.org> Message-ID: On Sat, 3 Oct 2015, Lorell Hathcock wrote: > I am running a DOCSIS network that has a noisy cable plant. I want to > be able to substantiate and quantify users' bandwidth issues. I would > like a set of inexpensive probes that I could place at selected > customer's homes/businesses that would on a scheduled basis perform > bandwidth tests. Check out Netbeez: https://netbeez.net/ Let me know if you'd like an introduction to them. -- Brandon Ross Yahoo & AIM: BrandonNRoss +1-404-635-6667 ICQ: 2269442 Skype: brandonross Schedule a meeting: http://www.doodle.com/bross From coolhandluke at coolhandluke.org Sun Oct 4 21:28:36 2015 From: coolhandluke at coolhandluke.org (coolhandluke) Date: Sun, 04 Oct 2015 17:28:36 -0400 Subject: [outages] Akamai Cert Issues today In-Reply-To: <33190431.678.1443984125928.JavaMail.root@benjamin.baylink.com> References: <33190431.678.1443984125928.JavaMail.root@benjamin.baylink.com> Message-ID: <3a51bd3f45a15b824bac4357d63e8e01@coolhandluke.org> On 2015-10-04 14:42, Jay Ashworth wrote: >> as to why your users just started it, nfi. my best guess is that they >> weren't using https previously. > > Well, "more people may be using HTTPS-Anywhere" may have something to > do with it. fwiw, https-anywhere doesn't just try to connect via https to every site you visit. there are rules that control where it will use https over plain http. irs.gov and www.irs.gov are explicitly disabled, however, so it's not this. cf. https://goo.gl/zTlzAu, lines 135-136. > Or, it might be that some new browser release just enabled HTTP/2.0, > which > in many implementations *requires* SSL and might also trip this, as > noted > in a posting on the topic which I just inadvertantly posted to this > same > mailing list 5 minutes ago. :-) that's possible, i don't know enough about http/2.0 to comment. -- coolhandluke From wolfgang.rupprecht at gmail.com Mon Oct 5 01:44:19 2015 From: wolfgang.rupprecht at gmail.com (Wolfgang S. Rupprecht) Date: Sun, 04 Oct 2015 18:44:19 -0700 Subject: How to force rapid ipv6 adoption References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560D9DD0.2030904@Janoszka.pl> <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE@delong.com> <20151001222813.B9469391102B@rock.dv.isc.org> <20151001232613.GD123100@rootmail.cc.le.ac.uk> <20151002000125.9CD573911EF5@rock.dv.isc.org> <5E0F32BF-74D1-4DD2-B142-234561BD7D28@delong.com> Message-ID: <87y4finl70.fsf@arbol.wsrcc.com> > (IPv6 ONLY insisting on manufacturers implementing 464XLAT is inferior > in every way to dual stack, There is one way it is superior; it rewards web and other content sites that implement IPv6. Unlike dual stack, it applies pressure where it is needed, on the IPv4-only sites. Grottiness can be a good thing. -wolfgang From james at towardex.com Mon Oct 5 04:45:27 2015 From: james at towardex.com (James Jun) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2015 00:45:27 -0400 Subject: AW: AW: AW: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: <1706169196.3513.1443877918905.JavaMail.mhammett@ThunderFuck> References: <1706169196.3513.1443877918905.JavaMail.mhammett@ThunderFuck> Message-ID: <20151005044527.GA66963@mis10.towardex.com> On Sat, Oct 03, 2015 at 08:10:36AM -0500, Mike Hammett wrote: > > People keep thinking I want Level 3 to replace a loaded 6500 with a CCR and that's simply not what I'm saying at all. The point of rattling off the newer\smaller hardware was to say that if the site doesn't require 40G\100G, doesn't have the revenue to support an MX480, etc. you should put in a smaller\cheaper box. > Cost is a non-issue at that point because the smaller gear that's all you need will have far less operational cost. Someone thought a particular POP was going to be a big hit... and wasn't. In an SP environment, there is an escalating operating cost and network complexity to having small full-featured routers (ie. MX80, ASR9001, CER2k, etc) at every data center, POP or anywhere you need to terminate customers. The reality is that small routers (even if you were to use ghetto routers) have poor economics in port density. It's feasible for a startup ISP to spam MX80 or equivalent anytime they need more ports, but there comes a point where plopping a big chassis is the way to go. At my place, we started with MX80s to cheap out on router ports anytime we had to light a data center. That only got us far and we ended up having to migrate to ASR 9010s and start phasing out small routers. The increasing complexity of having dozens of small routers and managing LSP mesh to remainder of the network is ugly. Moreover, full-table BGP routers are also the places where you exercise edge policy with complex routing policies. Even with automation, managing dozens of those in a region that could have been served by only 2 routers is annoying. It's easier to haul IP customers to fewer, but more reliable large-chassis platforms and use packet-optical network to get to the customer premise. Between the above and the lack of control-plane redundancy on most small routers, there are operational complexities & economic realities to keep in mind; it's not strictly about whether a site requires 40G/100G. > On the flip side, if there are 200 ports of customers chances are you need the big interfaces that aren't on the old boxes. You have the bigger revenue. Heck, the new big boxes probably still use less power than the old big boxes anyway. The idea has its merits, however in practice, it isn't feasible. People don't put in line cards into their router with expectation that they need to be replaced 2 years down the road because FIB TCAM ran out. Even if you have the revenue to justify new line cards, constant migration of customer interfaces means disruptive maintenance for that customer. We'd prefer IP network to be as reliable as dial-tone, if possible. The global routing table is approaching 600k today. Lot of line cards in installed base today only handle ~1.0/1.3 to ~1.8 million IPv4. When you start replacing those line cards (and mind you, a 24x10GE line card has a list price running into $300k range), the next logical level is 4 million IPv4. With all the deaggs with /24s, just how long of time are we going to have with /27 explosion before 4 million FIB runs out of space? I can see /25 being contemplated, but the cost of moving to /27 just isn't worth it at the moment. > > What I learned from this thread: Once you mention MT\UBNT routers, people assume you're using a MT\UBNT hammer everywhere. I'm not aware of any carrier-grade network that operates on these things. Best, james From rdobbins at arbor.net Tue Oct 6 13:05:17 2015 From: rdobbins at arbor.net (Roland Dobbins) Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2015 09:05:17 -0400 Subject: Updated NANOG 65 DD4BC presentation file. Message-ID: <86A94825-3538-4C08-867C-9D8CCEB6058F@arbor.net> I'd inadvertently failed to upload the final revision of the DD4BC presentation file from NANOG 65 - please find the updated .pdf file here, apologies for my confusion: ----------------------------------- Roland Dobbins From chris at nifry.com Tue Oct 6 13:25:27 2015 From: chris at nifry.com (Chris Russell) Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2015 14:25:27 +0100 Subject: Request for contact from KPN Message-ID: Hi Apologies for using the list - is anyone from KPN around and can drop me a line off-list ? Ta Chris From Steve.Mikulasik at civeo.com Tue Oct 6 15:00:05 2015 From: Steve.Mikulasik at civeo.com (Steve Mikulasik) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2015 15:00:05 +0000 Subject: Telus ADSL IPv6 Roll Out In-Reply-To: <1443910194.17484.4.camel@karl> References: <1443910194.17484.4.camel@karl> Message-ID: I looked around a bit more and I am assigned a /56. It was confusing in their router, digging through a few more pages showed the /56. Performance is significantly worse through IPv6 on Telus right now, google takes twice as long (14ms IPv4, 30ms IPv6) and facebook is significantly worse (40ms IPv4, 190ms IPv6). Hopefully this improves as part of the roll out. -----Original Message----- From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces at nanog.org] On Behalf Of Karl Auer Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2015 4:10 PM To: nanog at nanog.org Subject: Re: Telus ADSL IPv6 Roll Out On Sat, 2015-10-03 at 21:37 +0000, Steve Mikulasik wrote: > Looks like Telus is rolling out IPv6 to their ADSL customers. My ISP > modem/router is getting a /64 at home. I have a really big smile right > now [?] If that /64 is on the outside interface, well done - what are you getting on the inside for your own use? If the /64 is on the inside (and not part of a larger supernet, say a /48) then there is little cause for celebration, as you will be limited to one (1) IPv6 subnet in the home. "Better than nothing" is about you could say about that... Regards, K. -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Karl Auer (kauer at biplane.com.au) http://www.biplane.com.au/kauer http://twitter.com/kauer389 GPG fingerprint: 3C41 82BE A9E7 99A1 B931 5AE7 7638 0147 2C3C 2AC4 Old fingerprint: EC67 61E2 C2F6 EB55 884B E129 072B 0AF0 72AA 9882 From morrowc.lists at gmail.com Tue Oct 6 16:23:08 2015 From: morrowc.lists at gmail.com (Christopher Morrow) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2015 12:23:08 -0400 Subject: This came up in the security meeting today in Monteal - New tacacs Work! Message-ID: As mentioned, there's a draft to collect and 'fix' problems that we (google netops folks) see with tacacs+ today: If folk can give this a quick read, send comments to the authors (see draft for emails of authors) OR the ops area wg list: that would be good... even better if you find your favorite vendor critters and ask them their plans in this area. Someone asked, in the meeting, about: "What about key auth?" that sounds like a great thing to take up with Thorsten and Andrej :) -chris From mansaxel at besserwisser.org Tue Oct 6 18:16:55 2015 From: mansaxel at besserwisser.org (=?utf-8?B?TcOlbnM=?= Nilsson) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2015 20:16:55 +0200 Subject: How to wish you hadn't forced ipv6 adoption (was "How to force rapid ipv6 adoption") In-Reply-To: <560DF4BA.5000500@invaluement.com> References: <560D9DD0.2030904@Janoszka.pl> <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE@delong.com> <20151001222813.B9469391102B@rock.dv.isc.org> <20151001232613.GD123100@rootmail.cc.le.ac.uk> <20151002000125.9CD573911EF5@rock.dv.isc.org> <560DF4BA.5000500@invaluement.com> Message-ID: <20151006181655.GC20816@besserwisser.org> Subject: How to wish you hadn't forced ipv6 adoption (was "How to force rapid ipv6 adoption") Date: Thu, Oct 01, 2015 at 11:06:34PM -0400 Quoting Rob McEwen (rob at invaluement.com): > > I welcome IPv6 adoption in the near future in all but one area: the sending > IPs of valid mail servers. Those need to stay IPv4 for as long as reasonably > possible. > Using the link-level address to distinguish between good and bad email content was always daunting at best. Thanks for pointing out that this flawed behaviour must cease. -- M?ns Nilsson primary/secondary/besserwisser/machina MN-1334-RIPE +46 705 989668 Why is it that when you DIE, you can't take your HOME ENTERTAINMENT CENTER with you?? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 181 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From ggm at algebras.org Tue Oct 6 18:36:02 2015 From: ggm at algebras.org (George Michaelson) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2015 15:36:02 -0300 Subject: How to wish you hadn't forced ipv6 adoption (was "How to force rapid ipv6 adoption") In-Reply-To: <20151006181655.GC20816@besserwisser.org> References: <560D9DD0.2030904@Janoszka.pl> <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE@delong.com> <20151001222813.B9469391102B@rock.dv.isc.org> <20151001232613.GD123100@rootmail.cc.le.ac.uk> <20151002000125.9CD573911EF5@rock.dv.isc.org> <560DF4BA.5000500@invaluement.com> <20151006181655.GC20816@besserwisser.org> Message-ID: X.400 required a session key. IIRC you had to know the other side of the mail exchange and do (weak, but of the time what we did) shared secret swaps to bootstrap the protocol. Of course, a cheat-sheet of 'your idea will not work because [ ]' kills it, but I do recall with some fondness that in those days, basic hygiene demanded you know who you sent mail to, and on whose behalf. For at least some people. -G On Tue, Oct 6, 2015 at 3:16 PM, M?ns Nilsson wrote: > Subject: How to wish you hadn't forced ipv6 adoption (was "How to force > rapid ipv6 adoption") Date: Thu, Oct 01, 2015 at 11:06:34PM -0400 Quoting > Rob McEwen (rob at invaluement.com): > > > > I welcome IPv6 adoption in the near future in all but one area: the > sending > > IPs of valid mail servers. Those need to stay IPv4 for as long as > reasonably > > possible. > > > > Using the link-level address to distinguish between good and bad email > content was always daunting at best. Thanks for pointing out that this > flawed behaviour must cease. > > -- > M?ns Nilsson primary/secondary/besserwisser/machina > MN-1334-RIPE +46 705 989668 > Why is it that when you DIE, you can't take your HOME ENTERTAINMENT > CENTER with you?? > From Colin_Weir at cable.comcast.com Tue Oct 6 19:20:40 2015 From: Colin_Weir at cable.comcast.com (Weir, Colin) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2015 19:20:40 +0000 Subject: RIPE atlas probes Message-ID: <1444159239654.58622@cable.comcast.com> ?Hello attendees, I have a few RIPE Atlas probes with me at the conference for distribution. If you're interested in participating in RIPE measurements, please get in touch with me off-list and I'll be happy to give you one. We have a special interest in the following ASNs, which currently lack any RIPE probes. CANADA 7122 MTS-ASN - MTS Allstream Inc. 803 SASKTEL - Saskatchewan Telecommunications 22995 BARR-XPLR-ASN - Xplornet Communications Inc. 54614 CIKTELECOM-CABLE - CIK Telecom INC 36522 BELLMOBILITY-1 - BELL MOBILITY INC. 11290 RAPIDUS - COGECO Cable Canada Inc. 23184 PERSONA - PERSONA COMMUNICATIONS INC. 7992 COGECOWAVE - Cogeco Cable 11260 EASTLINK-HSI - EastLink 11814 DISTRIBUTEL-AS11814 - DISTRIBUTEL COMMUNICATIONS LTD. 6407 PRIMUS-AS6407 - Primus Telecommunications Canada Inc. 35911 BNQ-1 - Telebec 855 CANET-ASN-4 - Bell Aliant Regional Communications, Inc. 15290 ALLST-15290 - Allstream Corp. USA 15169 GOOGLE - Google Inc. 16509 AMAZON-02 - Amazon.com, Inc. 21928 T-MOBILE-AS21928 - T-Mobile USA, Inc. 32934 FACEBOOK - Facebook, Inc. 22394 CELLCO - Cellco Partnership DBA Verizon Wireless 20057 ATT-MOBILITY-LLC-AS20057 - ATT Mobility LLC 3549 LVLT-3549 - Level 3 Communications, Inc. -- Colin Weir Engineer, Quality of Experience, Comcast Cable Desk: 215-286-5406 Cell: 215-279-1733 From joelja at bogus.com Tue Oct 6 20:15:25 2015 From: joelja at bogus.com (joel jaeggli) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2015 13:15:25 -0700 Subject: RIPE atlas probes In-Reply-To: <1444159239654.58622@cable.comcast.com> References: <1444159239654.58622@cable.comcast.com> Message-ID: <56142BDD.7040202@bogus.com> On 10/6/15 12:20 PM, Weir, Colin wrote: > 3549 > > LVLT-3549 - Level 3 Communications, Inc. 3549 and 3356 probes should have largely the same vantage point since the former remains as a thin veneer on the latter. > > > > -- > Colin Weir > Engineer, Quality of Experience, Comcast Cable > Desk: 215-286-5406 > Cell: 215-279-1733 > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 229 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From A.L.M.Buxey at lboro.ac.uk Tue Oct 6 21:11:30 2015 From: A.L.M.Buxey at lboro.ac.uk (Alan Buxey) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2015 22:11:30 +0100 Subject: RIPE atlas probes In-Reply-To: <56142BDD.7040202@bogus.com> References: <1444159239654.58622@cable.comcast.com> <56142BDD.7040202@bogus.com> Message-ID: 'should have largely the same vantage point ...' That's *exactly* one of the functions of these probes. It's very interesting what they can find out. Never assume (you know the rest of that...) alan From bruce.horth at gmail.com Wed Oct 7 01:09:09 2015 From: bruce.horth at gmail.com (Bruce Horth) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2015 21:09:09 -0400 Subject: Android and DHCPv6 again In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Your device may be getting an address, but without a recursive DNS server it may be useless. If you're going to do SLAAC you'll also need to supply your client with a recursive DNS server. Android prefers RFC 6106. As you mentioned, Google has decided not to support DHCPv6 in Android. Unfortunately some router manufacturers are only now getting around to implementing RFC 6106. BH On Sat, Oct 3, 2015 at 9:52 PM, Baldur Norddahl wrote: > Hi > > I noticed that my Nexus 9 tablet did not have any IPv6 although everything > else in my house is IPv6 enabled. Then I noticed that my Samsung S6 was > also without IPv6. Hmm. > > A little work with tcpdump and I got this: > > 03:27:15.978826 IP6 (hlim 255, next-header ICMPv6 (58) payload length: 120) > fe80::222:7ff:fe49:ffad > ip6-allnodes: [icmp6 sum ok] ICMP6, router > advertisement, length 120 > hop limit 0, Flags [*managed*, other stateful], pref medium, router > lifetime 1800s, reachable time 0s, retrans time 0s > source link-address option (1), length 8 (1): 00:22:07:49:ff:ad > mtu option (5), length 8 (1): 1500 > prefix info option (3), length 32 (4): 2a00:7660:5c6::/64, Flags [onlink, > *auto*], valid time 7040s, pref. time 1800s > unknown option (24), length 16 (2): > 0x0000: 3000 0000 1b80 2a00 7660 05c6 0000 > > So my CPE is actually doing DHCPv6 and some nice people at Google decided > that it will be better for me to be without IPv6 in that case :-(. > > But it also has the auto flag, so Android should be able to do SLAAC yes? > > My Macbook Pro currently has the following set of addresses: > > en0: flags=8863 mtu 1500 > ether 3c:15:c2:ba:76:d4 > inet6 fe80::3e15:c2ff:feba:76d4%en0 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x4 > inet 192.168.1.214 netmask 0xffffff00 broadcast 192.168.1.255 > inet6 2a00:7660:5c6::3e15:c2ff:feba:76d4 prefixlen 64 autoconf > inet6 2a00:7660:5c6::b5a5:5839:ca0f:267e prefixlen 64 autoconf temporary > inet6 2a00:7660:5c6::899 prefixlen 64 dynamic > nd6 options=1 > media: autoselect > status: active > > To me it seems that the Macbook has one SLAAC address, one privacy > extension address and one DHCPv6 managed address. > > In fact the CPE manufacturer is a little clever here. They gave me an easy > address that I can use to access my computer ("899") while still allowing > SLAAC and privacy extensions. If I want to open ports in my firewall I > could do that to the "899" address. > > But why is my Android devices without IPv6 in this setup? > > Regards, > > Baldur > From alejandroacostaalamo at gmail.com Wed Oct 7 01:29:14 2015 From: alejandroacostaalamo at gmail.com (Alejandro Acosta) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2015 20:59:14 -0430 Subject: Android and DHCPv6 again In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5614756A.8010101@gmail.com> Hello, This is a question a should test myself but anyhow I would like to hear your comments. What happen (on the client side/Android maybe) if I advertise the DNS information in the RA and I also enable the O bit? Thanks, Alejandro, El 10/6/2015 a las 8:39 PM, Bruce Horth escribi?: > Your device may be getting an address, but without a recursive DNS server > it may be useless. > > If you're going to do SLAAC you'll also need to supply your client with a > recursive DNS server. Android prefers RFC 6106. As you mentioned, Google > has decided not to support DHCPv6 in Android. Unfortunately some router > manufacturers are only now getting around to implementing RFC 6106. > > > > > BH > > On Sat, Oct 3, 2015 at 9:52 PM, Baldur Norddahl > wrote: > >> Hi >> >> I noticed that my Nexus 9 tablet did not have any IPv6 although everything >> else in my house is IPv6 enabled. Then I noticed that my Samsung S6 was >> also without IPv6. Hmm. >> >> A little work with tcpdump and I got this: >> >> 03:27:15.978826 IP6 (hlim 255, next-header ICMPv6 (58) payload length: 120) >> fe80::222:7ff:fe49:ffad > ip6-allnodes: [icmp6 sum ok] ICMP6, router >> advertisement, length 120 >> hop limit 0, Flags [*managed*, other stateful], pref medium, router >> lifetime 1800s, reachable time 0s, retrans time 0s >> source link-address option (1), length 8 (1): 00:22:07:49:ff:ad >> mtu option (5), length 8 (1): 1500 >> prefix info option (3), length 32 (4): 2a00:7660:5c6::/64, Flags [onlink, >> *auto*], valid time 7040s, pref. time 1800s >> unknown option (24), length 16 (2): >> 0x0000: 3000 0000 1b80 2a00 7660 05c6 0000 >> >> So my CPE is actually doing DHCPv6 and some nice people at Google decided >> that it will be better for me to be without IPv6 in that case :-(. >> >> But it also has the auto flag, so Android should be able to do SLAAC yes? >> >> My Macbook Pro currently has the following set of addresses: >> >> en0: flags=8863 mtu 1500 >> ether 3c:15:c2:ba:76:d4 >> inet6 fe80::3e15:c2ff:feba:76d4%en0 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x4 >> inet 192.168.1.214 netmask 0xffffff00 broadcast 192.168.1.255 >> inet6 2a00:7660:5c6::3e15:c2ff:feba:76d4 prefixlen 64 autoconf >> inet6 2a00:7660:5c6::b5a5:5839:ca0f:267e prefixlen 64 autoconf temporary >> inet6 2a00:7660:5c6::899 prefixlen 64 dynamic >> nd6 options=1 >> media: autoselect >> status: active >> >> To me it seems that the Macbook has one SLAAC address, one privacy >> extension address and one DHCPv6 managed address. >> >> In fact the CPE manufacturer is a little clever here. They gave me an easy >> address that I can use to access my computer ("899") while still allowing >> SLAAC and privacy extensions. If I want to open ports in my firewall I >> could do that to the "899" address. >> >> But why is my Android devices without IPv6 in this setup? >> >> Regards, >> >> Baldur >> From bruce.horth at gmail.com Wed Oct 7 02:33:59 2015 From: bruce.horth at gmail.com (Bruce Horth) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2015 22:33:59 -0400 Subject: Android and DHCPv6 again In-Reply-To: <5614756A.8010101@gmail.com> References: <5614756A.8010101@gmail.com> Message-ID: The Android client should ignore the O-flag and just use the information in the RA. Windows clients will ignore the DNS option in the RA and do a DHCP request for the Other information. My understanding is you can enabled the O-flag for stateless DHCPv6 and set the RA DNS option at the same time. This configuration should work on networks that have a mix of Windows and Android clients (seeing as Windows clients do not natively support RFC6106). BH On Tue, Oct 6, 2015 at 9:29 PM, Alejandro Acosta < alejandroacostaalamo at gmail.com> wrote: > Hello, > This is a question a should test myself but anyhow I would like to > hear your comments. > What happen (on the client side/Android maybe) if I advertise the DNS > information in the RA and I also enable the O bit? > > Thanks, > > Alejandro, > > El 10/6/2015 a las 8:39 PM, Bruce Horth escribi?: > > Your device may be getting an address, but without a recursive DNS server > > it may be useless. > > > > If you're going to do SLAAC you'll also need to supply your client with a > > recursive DNS server. Android prefers RFC 6106. As you mentioned, Google > > has decided not to support DHCPv6 in Android. Unfortunately some router > > manufacturers are only now getting around to implementing RFC 6106. > > > > > > > > > > BH > > > > On Sat, Oct 3, 2015 at 9:52 PM, Baldur Norddahl < > baldur.norddahl at gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > >> Hi > >> > >> I noticed that my Nexus 9 tablet did not have any IPv6 although > everything > >> else in my house is IPv6 enabled. Then I noticed that my Samsung S6 was > >> also without IPv6. Hmm. > >> > >> A little work with tcpdump and I got this: > >> > >> 03:27:15.978826 IP6 (hlim 255, next-header ICMPv6 (58) payload length: > 120) > >> fe80::222:7ff:fe49:ffad > ip6-allnodes: [icmp6 sum ok] ICMP6, router > >> advertisement, length 120 > >> hop limit 0, Flags [*managed*, other stateful], pref medium, router > >> lifetime 1800s, reachable time 0s, retrans time 0s > >> source link-address option (1), length 8 (1): 00:22:07:49:ff:ad > >> mtu option (5), length 8 (1): 1500 > >> prefix info option (3), length 32 (4): 2a00:7660:5c6::/64, Flags > [onlink, > >> *auto*], valid time 7040s, pref. time 1800s > >> unknown option (24), length 16 (2): > >> 0x0000: 3000 0000 1b80 2a00 7660 05c6 0000 > >> > >> So my CPE is actually doing DHCPv6 and some nice people at Google > decided > >> that it will be better for me to be without IPv6 in that case :-(. > >> > >> But it also has the auto flag, so Android should be able to do SLAAC > yes? > >> > >> My Macbook Pro currently has the following set of addresses: > >> > >> en0: flags=8863 mtu 1500 > >> ether 3c:15:c2:ba:76:d4 > >> inet6 fe80::3e15:c2ff:feba:76d4%en0 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x4 > >> inet 192.168.1.214 netmask 0xffffff00 broadcast 192.168.1.255 > >> inet6 2a00:7660:5c6::3e15:c2ff:feba:76d4 prefixlen 64 autoconf > >> inet6 2a00:7660:5c6::b5a5:5839:ca0f:267e prefixlen 64 autoconf temporary > >> inet6 2a00:7660:5c6::899 prefixlen 64 dynamic > >> nd6 options=1 > >> media: autoselect > >> status: active > >> > >> To me it seems that the Macbook has one SLAAC address, one privacy > >> extension address and one DHCPv6 managed address. > >> > >> In fact the CPE manufacturer is a little clever here. They gave me an > easy > >> address that I can use to access my computer ("899") while still > allowing > >> SLAAC and privacy extensions. If I want to open ports in my firewall I > >> could do that to the "899" address. > >> > >> But why is my Android devices without IPv6 in this setup? > >> > >> Regards, > >> > >> Baldur > >> > > From erey at ernw.de Wed Oct 7 05:20:47 2015 From: erey at ernw.de (Enno Rey) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2015 07:20:47 +0200 Subject: Android and DHCPv6 again In-Reply-To: <5614756A.8010101@gmail.com> References: <5614756A.8010101@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20151007052047.GA12275@ernw.de> Hi, On Tue, Oct 06, 2015 at 08:59:14PM -0430, Alejandro Acosta wrote: > Hello, > This is a question a should test myself but anyhow I would like to > hear your comments. > What happen (on the client side/Android maybe) if I advertise the DNS > information in the RA and I also enable the O bit? depends on the OS the client is running, see https://www.ernw.de/download/ERNW_Whitepaper_IPv6_RAs_RDNSS_DHCPv6_Conflicting_Parameters.pdf & https://www.ernw.de/download/ERNW_RIPE70_IPv6_Behavior_Conflicting_Environments_v0_92_short.pdf best Enno > > Thanks, > > Alejandro, > > El 10/6/2015 a las 8:39 PM, Bruce Horth escribi??: > > Your device may be getting an address, but without a recursive DNS server > > it may be useless. > > > > If you're going to do SLAAC you'll also need to supply your client with a > > recursive DNS server. Android prefers RFC 6106. As you mentioned, Google > > has decided not to support DHCPv6 in Android. Unfortunately some router > > manufacturers are only now getting around to implementing RFC 6106. > > > > > > > > > > BH > > > > On Sat, Oct 3, 2015 at 9:52 PM, Baldur Norddahl > > wrote: > > > >> Hi > >> > >> I noticed that my Nexus 9 tablet did not have any IPv6 although everything > >> else in my house is IPv6 enabled. Then I noticed that my Samsung S6 was > >> also without IPv6. Hmm. > >> > >> A little work with tcpdump and I got this: > >> > >> 03:27:15.978826 IP6 (hlim 255, next-header ICMPv6 (58) payload length: 120) > >> fe80::222:7ff:fe49:ffad > ip6-allnodes: [icmp6 sum ok] ICMP6, router > >> advertisement, length 120 > >> hop limit 0, Flags [*managed*, other stateful], pref medium, router > >> lifetime 1800s, reachable time 0s, retrans time 0s > >> source link-address option (1), length 8 (1): 00:22:07:49:ff:ad > >> mtu option (5), length 8 (1): 1500 > >> prefix info option (3), length 32 (4): 2a00:7660:5c6::/64, Flags [onlink, > >> *auto*], valid time 7040s, pref. time 1800s > >> unknown option (24), length 16 (2): > >> 0x0000: 3000 0000 1b80 2a00 7660 05c6 0000 > >> > >> So my CPE is actually doing DHCPv6 and some nice people at Google decided > >> that it will be better for me to be without IPv6 in that case :-(. > >> > >> But it also has the auto flag, so Android should be able to do SLAAC yes? > >> > >> My Macbook Pro currently has the following set of addresses: > >> > >> en0: flags=8863 mtu 1500 > >> ether 3c:15:c2:ba:76:d4 > >> inet6 fe80::3e15:c2ff:feba:76d4%en0 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x4 > >> inet 192.168.1.214 netmask 0xffffff00 broadcast 192.168.1.255 > >> inet6 2a00:7660:5c6::3e15:c2ff:feba:76d4 prefixlen 64 autoconf > >> inet6 2a00:7660:5c6::b5a5:5839:ca0f:267e prefixlen 64 autoconf temporary > >> inet6 2a00:7660:5c6::899 prefixlen 64 dynamic > >> nd6 options=1 > >> media: autoselect > >> status: active > >> > >> To me it seems that the Macbook has one SLAAC address, one privacy > >> extension address and one DHCPv6 managed address. > >> > >> In fact the CPE manufacturer is a little clever here. They gave me an easy > >> address that I can use to access my computer ("899") while still allowing > >> SLAAC and privacy extensions. If I want to open ports in my firewall I > >> could do that to the "899" address. > >> > >> But why is my Android devices without IPv6 in this setup? > >> > >> Regards, > >> > >> Baldur > >> > -- Enno Rey ERNW GmbH - Carl-Bosch-Str. 4 - 69115 Heidelberg - www.ernw.de Tel. +49 6221 480390 - Fax 6221 419008 - Cell +49 173 6745902 Handelsregister Mannheim: HRB 337135 Geschaeftsfuehrer: Enno Rey ======================================================= Blog: www.insinuator.net || Conference: www.troopers.de Twitter: @Enno_Insinuator ======================================================= From baldur.norddahl at gmail.com Wed Oct 7 06:20:45 2015 From: baldur.norddahl at gmail.com (Baldur Norddahl) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2015 08:20:45 +0200 Subject: Android and DHCPv6 again In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Den 07/10/2015 03.09 skrev "Bruce Horth" : > > Your device may be getting an address, but without a recursive DNS server it may be useless. It is dual stack. You will get DNS info via DHCPv4. Regards Baldur From owen at delong.com Wed Oct 7 11:54:47 2015 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2015 04:54:47 -0700 Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: <56113C5C.8050702@satchell.net> References: <20151003.115707.448347413282905946.wwaites@tardis.ed.ac.uk> <7E645C67-2F5C-4CA0-9C0E-1BA41AF24ABC@delong.com> <56113C5C.8050702@satchell.net> Message-ID: <7556F5B2-A9CF-4654-893E-007312C2B4EC@delong.com> > On Oct 4, 2015, at 7:49 AM, Stephen Satchell wrote: > > On 10/04/2015 06:40 AM, Matthias Leisi wrote: >> Fully agree. But the current state of IPv6 outside "professional? >> networks/devices is sincerely limited by a lot of poor CPE and >> consumer device implementations. > > I have to ask: where is the book _IPv6 for Dummies_ or equivalent? > > Specifically, is http://www.xnetworks.es/contents/Infoblox/IPv6forDummies.pdf any good? (I just downloaded it to inspect.) > > My bookshelf is full of books describing IPv4. Saying "IPv6 just works" ignores the issues of configuring intelligent firewalls to block the ne-er-do-wells using the new IP-level protocol. You will need most of the same blockages in IPv6 that you needed in IPv4, actually. There are some important differences for ICMP (don?t break PMTU-D or ND), but otherwise, really not much difference between your IPv4 security policy and your IPv6 security policy. In fact, on my linux box, I generate my IPv4 iptables file using little more than a global search and replace on the IPv6 iptables configuration which replaces the IPv6 prefixes/addresses with the corresponding IPv4 prefixes/addresses. (My IPv6 addresses for things that take incoming connections have an algorithmic map to IPv4 addresses for things that have them.) > I use CentOS, the community version of Red Hat Enterprise. I looked around for useful books on building IPv6 firewalls with the same granularity as the above-mentioned book for IPv4, and haven't found anything useful as yet. In particular, I'm looking for material that lays out how to build a mostly-closed firewall and DMZ in IPv6. The lack of IPv6 support goes further: I didn't find anything useful in Red Hat (CentOS) firewall tools that provides IPv6 support...but that's probably because I don't know what I'm looking for. (Also, that GUI software is intended for use on individual servers/computers, not in a edge-firewall with forwarding and DMZ responsibilities.) Where you have an iptables file, you add an ip6tables file and change the prefixes and addresses. Otherwise, it?s really pretty much the same. There is limited IPv6 support in many of the GUIs still, unfortunately, but the command line tools are all there and for the most part work pretty much identically for v4 and v6, the difference often being as little as ping vs ping6 or vs. -6 . > Building a secure firewall takes more than just knowing how to issue ip6table commands; one also needs to know exactly what goes into those commands. NANOG concentrates on network operators who need to provide a good Internet experience to all their downstream customers, which is why I see the bias toward openness...as it should be. Those of us who run edge networks have different problems to solve. If you know what goes into the iptables commands, then there?s very little difference for the ip6tables commands. Primarily it involves changing the IPv4 addresses and/or prefixes into IPv6 addresses and/or prefixes. The rest of the commands are very much literally the same? An example from my actual configurations: iptables: -A RH-Firewall-1-INPUT -m state --state ESTABLISHED,RELATED -j ACCEPT -A RH-Firewall-1-INPUT -m state --state NEW -m tcp -p tcp --dport 22 -j ACCEPT -A RH-Firewall-1-INPUT -s 192.159.10.0/24 -m state --state NEW -m tcp -p tcp --dport 53 -j ACCEPT -A RH-Firewall-1-INPUT -m state --state NEW -m udp -p udp --dport 53 -m limit --limit 30/minute --limit-burst 90 -j ACCEPT -A RH-Firewall-1-INPUT -m state --state NEW -m tcp -p tcp --dport 53 -m limit --limit 30/minute --limit-burst 90 -j ACCEPT -A RH-Firewall-1-INPUT -m state --state NEW -m tcp -p tcp --dport 5900 -j ACCEPT ip6tables: -A RH-Firewall-1-INPUT -m state --state ESTABLISHED,RELATED -j ACCEPT -A RH-Firewall-1-INPUT -m state --state NEW -m tcp -p tcp --dport 22 -j ACCEPT -A RH-Firewall-1-INPUT -s 2001:470:1f00:3142::/64 -m state --state NEW -m udp -p udp --dport 53 -j ACCEPT -A RH-Firewall-1-INPUT -m state --state NEW -m udp -p udp --dport 53 -m limit --limit 30/minute --limit-burst 90 -j ACCEPT -A RH-Firewall-1-INPUT -m state --state NEW -m tcp -p tcp --dport 53 -m limit --limit 30/minute --limit-burst 90 -j ACCEPT -A RH-Firewall-1-INPUT -m state --state NEW -m tcp -p tcp --dport 5900 -j ACCEPT This is not my entire configuration (which is somewhat complex and in need of some cruft removal due to organic growth over time), but these 6 lines do provide a reasonably representative sample of things and include rate-limiting DNS queries from outsiders. > I'm not asking NANOG to go past its charter, but I am asking the IPv6 fanatics on this mailing list to recognize that, even though the net itself may be running IPv6, the support and education infrastructure is still behind the curve. Reading RFCs is good, reading man pages is good, but there is no guidance about how to implement end-network policies in the wild yet...at least not that I've been able to find. There is actually quite a bit of information out there. Sylvia Hagen?s IPv6 book covers a lot of this (O?Reilly publishes it). There are also several other good IPv6 books. > "ipv6.disable" will be changed to zero when I know how to set the firewall to implement the policies I need to keep other edge networks from disrupting mine. You do. You just don?t realize that you do. See above. Owen From owen at delong.com Wed Oct 7 11:56:45 2015 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2015 04:56:45 -0700 Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: <18661688-294A-4662-8380-DF6C2C490E6F@beckman.org> References: <7E645C67-2F5C-4CA0-9C0E-1BA41AF24ABC@delong.com> <20151004.164120.41639562.sthaug@nethelp.no> <18661688-294A-4662-8380-DF6C2C490E6F@beckman.org> Message-ID: <7EB5C4BD-E1C1-4720-9E94-C834DBE83E75@delong.com> > On Oct 4, 2015, at 7:52 AM, Mel Beckman wrote: > > If it doesn't support IPSec, it's not really IPv6. Just as if it failed to support any other mandatory IPv6 specification, such as RA. Not true. IPSec is recommended, not mandatory. This change was made in favor of resource constrained nodes (think micro controllers with very small memories). > There's really no excuse for not supporting IPSec, as it's a widely available open source component that costs nothing to incorporate into an IPv6 stack. Simply not true. There are nodes which have no need for it and are resource constrained. > Your observation simply means that users must be informed when buying IPv6 devices, just as they must with any product. You can buy either genuine IPv6 or half-baked IPv6 products. When I speak of IPv6, I speak only of the genuine article. This is true. If you need the device to support IPv6, you should definitely make sure that it does, but that is ordinary reality with any feature of any product rather than anything specific to IPv6. Owen From owen at delong.com Wed Oct 7 12:01:47 2015 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2015 05:01:47 -0700 Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: References: <7E645C67-2F5C-4CA0-9C0E-1BA41AF24ABC@delong.com> <20151004.164120.41639562.sthaug@nethelp.no> <18661688-294A-4662-8380-DF6C2C490E6F@beckman.org> Message-ID: > On Oct 4, 2015, at 8:33 AM, Jon Lewis wrote: > > On Sun, 4 Oct 2015, Mel Beckman wrote: > >> If it doesn't support IPSec, it's not really IPv6. Just as if it failed to support any other mandatory IPv6 specification, such as RA. > > Go tell cisco that. IIRC, the first network I dual-stacked, I was kind of surprised when I found I could not use authentication in OSPFv3, because OSPFv3 assumes IPv6 will supply the IPSec to do auth...but these routers didn't support IPSec. They still managed to route IPv6 and support IPv6 customers...so it really was IPv6...just not the full suite of everything you'd expect from IPv6. A router with OSPFv3 and no IPSec for securing the OSPFv3 sessions really is an incomplete implementation. This is one case where IPSec really should be considered mandatory rather than recommended. > >> Your observation simply means that users must be informed when buying IPv6 devices, just as they must with any product. You can buy either genuine IPv6 or half-baked IPv6 products. When I speak of IPv6, I speak only of the genuine article. > > Does anyone buy "IPv6 devices?? Yes? For some definitions of that term. > The biggest hurdle I've seen with IPv6 adoption (i.e. going dual-stack, with the idea that we'll gradually transition most things / most traffic from v4 to v6) is the number of end-user network providers that don't offer v6 at all. My home cable internet provider still doesn't offer IPv6. > When I asked one of their support people about it recently, I was told not to worry, they have plenty of v4 addresses left, but it was implied that they do plan to start offering v6 sometime soon. They should have started rolling out IPv6 to any customers that wanted it years ago, so that by today, it would be standard for all their installations to be dual-stack. But here we are, nearly 2016, and they don't have a single IPv6 customer (AFAIK) yet. Yeah, lots of providers still don?t get it like that. The problem is we?ve also done a poor job training people who call them up asking for IPv6. Many accept ?We have plenty of IPv4 addresses? as an answer. Instead, the followup question is needed? ?That?s great, but how does that help me reach a web site that doesn?t have and can?t get an IPv4 address?? Owen From alejandroacostaalamo at gmail.com Wed Oct 7 12:12:21 2015 From: alejandroacostaalamo at gmail.com (Alejandro Acosta) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2015 07:42:21 -0430 Subject: Android and DHCPv6 again In-Reply-To: <20151007052047.GA12275@ernw.de> References: <5614756A.8010101@gmail.com> <20151007052047.GA12275@ernw.de> Message-ID: <56150C25.6050208@gmail.com> El 10/7/2015 a las 12:50 AM, Enno Rey escribi?: > Hi, > > On Tue, Oct 06, 2015 at 08:59:14PM -0430, Alejandro Acosta wrote: >> Hello, >> This is a question a should test myself but anyhow I would like to >> hear your comments. >> What happen (on the client side/Android maybe) if I advertise the DNS >> information in the RA and I also enable the O bit? > depends on the OS the client is running, see > https://www.ernw.de/download/ERNW_Whitepaper_IPv6_RAs_RDNSS_DHCPv6_Conflicting_Parameters.pdf & > https://www.ernw.de/download/ERNW_RIPE70_IPv6_Behavior_Conflicting_Environments_v0_92_short.pdf Thanks a lot. Great documents, nice job, congrats. Alejandro, From owen at delong.com Wed Oct 7 12:13:37 2015 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2015 05:13:37 -0700 Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: <7D65285B-EA76-4A8F-8437-8B0F0212C211@beckman.org> References: <7E645C67-2F5C-4CA0-9C0E-1BA41AF24ABC@delong.com> <20151004.164120.41639562.sthaug@nethelp.no> <18661688-294A-4662-8380-DF6C2C490E6F@beckman.org> <0A996CED-4AF7-4193-8AA2-701AFB4C26A7@steffann.nl> <7D65285B-EA76-4A8F-8437-8B0F0212C211@beckman.org> Message-ID: Memory footprint is still an issue in lots of things like ESP8266 (which doesn?t yet support IPv6, but hopefully will soon). Not everything is a cell phone or larger. There are lots of cool new things coming out in the SoC world where you?ve got a micro controller, GPIOs, CAN, SPI, WiFi, and more all in a single chip or module. Another example (also currently IPv4 only, but hopefully that will get fixed) is particle.io. These are $10-$20 (and sometimes even less) complete systems with very small memories and very low power consumption which are great for deploying things like remote sensors and the like. Owen > On Oct 4, 2015, at 11:15 AM, Mel Beckman wrote: > > Stefann, > > You're right. I remember hearing rumblings of vendors requesting this change, mostly because embedded processors of the time had difficulty performing well with IPv6. I see that in 2011 rfc6434 lowered IPSec from "must" to "should". Nevertheless, plenty of products produced before 2011 included IPSec and the vast majority of IPv6-capable nodes on the Internet have it today. Performance is no longer an issue. > > -mel beckman > >> On Oct 4, 2015, at 8:58 AM, Sander Steffann wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >>> Op 4 okt. 2015, om 16:52 heeft Mel Beckman het volgende geschreven: >>> >>> If it doesn't support IPSec, it's not really IPv6. Just as if it failed to support any other mandatory IPv6 specification, such as RA. >> >> I think you're still looking at an old version of the IPv6 Node Requirements. Check https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6434#section-11, specifically this bit: >> >> """ >> Previously, IPv6 mandated implementation of IPsec and recommended the key management approach of IKE. This document updates that recommendation by making support of the IPsec Architecture a SHOULD for all IPv6 nodes. >> """ >> >> This was published in December 2011. >> >> Cheers, >> Sander >> From owen at delong.com Wed Oct 7 12:27:50 2015 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2015 05:27:50 -0700 Subject: Inexpensive probes for automated bandwidth testing purposes In-Reply-To: References: <37DBA43E-EE76-4323-962C-30BB988D0C2E@hathcock.org> Message-ID: They introduced themselves via SPAM recently? They?ve been plonked as a result. Owen > On Oct 4, 2015, at 2:28 PM, Brandon Ross wrote: > > On Sat, 3 Oct 2015, Lorell Hathcock wrote: > >> I am running a DOCSIS network that has a noisy cable plant. I want to be able to substantiate and quantify users' bandwidth issues. I would like a set of inexpensive probes that I could place at selected customer's homes/businesses that would on a scheduled basis perform bandwidth tests. > > Check out Netbeez: > > https://netbeez.net/ > > Let me know if you'd like an introduction to them. > > -- > Brandon Ross Yahoo & AIM: BrandonNRoss > +1-404-635-6667 ICQ: 2269442 > Skype: brandonross > Schedule a meeting: http://www.doodle.com/bross From list at satchell.net Wed Oct 7 13:13:26 2015 From: list at satchell.net (Stephen Satchell) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2015 06:13:26 -0700 Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: <7556F5B2-A9CF-4654-893E-007312C2B4EC@delong.com> References: <20151003.115707.448347413282905946.wwaites@tardis.ed.ac.uk> <7E645C67-2F5C-4CA0-9C0E-1BA41AF24ABC@delong.com> <56113C5C.8050702@satchell.net> <7556F5B2-A9CF-4654-893E-007312C2B4EC@delong.com> Message-ID: <56151A76.9010305@satchell.net> This is excellent feedback, thank you. On 10/07/2015 04:54 AM, Owen DeLong wrote: > >> On Oct 4, 2015, at 7:49 AM, Stephen Satchell wrote: >> >> My bookshelf is full of books describing IPv4. Saying "IPv6 just >> works" ignores the issues of configuring intelligent firewalls to block >> the ne-er-do-wells using the new IP-level protocol. > > You will need most of the same blockages in IPv6 that you needed in IPv4, actually. > > There are some important differences for ICMP (don?t break PMTU-D or > ND), but otherwise, really not much difference between your IPv4 > security policy and your IPv6 security policy. > > In fact, on my linux box, I generate my IPv4 iptables file using > little more than a global search and replace on the IPv6 iptables > configuration which replaces the IPv6 prefixes/addresses with the > corresponding IPv4 prefixes/addresses. (My IPv6 addresses for things > that take incoming connections have an algorithmic map to IPv4 addresses > for things that have them.) On my box, I have a librry of shell functions that do the generation, driven by parameter tables. If I'm reading you correctly, I can just augment the parameter tables and those functions to generate the appropriate corresponding ip6table commands in parallel with the iptable commands. Question: should I still rate-limit ICMP packets in IPv6? Also, someone on this list pointed me to NIST SP800-119, "Guidelines for the Secure Deployment of IPv6", the contents of which which I will incorporate. > There is limited IPv6 support in many of the GUIs still, > unfortunately, but the command line tools are all there and for the > most part work pretty much identically for v4 and v6, the difference > often being as little as ping vs ping6 or vs. > -6 . I've not been happy with the GUIs, because getting them to do what I want is a royal pain. For example, I'm forced to use port-based redirection in one edge firewall application -- I blew a whole weekend figuring out how to do that with the CentOS 7 firewalld corkscrew, for a customer who outgrew the RV-220 he used for the application. At least that didn't need IPv6! > Primarily it involves changing the IPv4 addresses and/or prefixes > into IPv6 addresses and/or prefixes. What about fragmented packets? And adjusting the parameters in ip6table filters to detect the DNS "ANY" requests used in the DDoS amplification attacks? >> I'm not asking NANOG to go past its charter, but I am asking the >> IPv6fanatics on this mailing list to recognize that, even though the net >> itself may be running IPv6, the support and education infrastructure is >> still behind the curve. Reading RFCs is good, reading man pages is good, >> but there is no guidance about how to implement end-network policies in >> the wild yet...at least not that I've been able to find. > > There is actually quite a bit of information out there. Sylvia > Hagen?sIPv6 book covers a lot of this (O?Reilly publishes it). Um, that would be "books". Which one do you recommend I start with? * IPv6 Essentials (3rd Edition), 2014, ASIN: B00RWSNEKG * Planning for IPv6 (1st Edition), 2011, ISBN-10: 1449305393 (I would assume the first, as the NIST document probably covers the contents of the second) > There are also several other good IPv6 books. Recommendations? >> "ipv6.disable" will be changed to zero when I know how to set the >> firewall to implement the policies I need to keep other edge networks >> from disrupting mine. > > You do. You just don?t realize that you do. See above. That's encouraging. Being able to leverage the knowledge from IPv4 to project the same policies into IPv6 makes it easier for me, as I'm already using programmatic methods of generating the firewalls. I expected that the implementation of existing applications-level policies would be parallel; it's the policies further down the stack that was my concern. Also, I have a lot of IP level blocks (like simpler Cisco access control lists) to shut out those people who like to bang on my SSH front door. I believe that people who are so rude as to try to break through dozens or hundreds of time a day will have other bad habits, and don't deserve to be allowed for anything. (I have similar blocks for rabid spammers not in the DNSBLs, but that's a different story.) I would expect to maintain a separate list of IPv6 subnets, based on experience. Which brings up another question: should I block IPv6 access to port 25 on my mail servers, and not announce a AAAA record for it? Postfix handles IPv6, but I've seen discussion that e-mail service is going to be IPv4 only for quite a while. Should I even enable IPv6 on my mail server at this time? Or is that a question I should post elsewhere? As an aside, my day job is converting to Python programming, so my first Python project may well be the conversion of my existing firewall generator into that language. From matthew at matthew.at Wed Oct 7 13:29:36 2015 From: matthew at matthew.at (Matthew Kaufman) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2015 06:29:36 -0700 Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: References: <7E645C67-2F5C-4CA0-9C0E-1BA41AF24ABC@delong.com> <20151004.164120.41639562.sthaug@nethelp.no> <18661688-294A-4662-8380-DF6C2C490E6F@beckman.org> Message-ID: > On Oct 7, 2015, at 5:01 AM, Owen DeLong wrote: > > > > Instead, the followup question is needed? ?That?s great, but how does that help me reach a web site that doesn?t have and can?t get an IPv4 address?? > > Owen > At the present time, a web site that doesn't have and can't get an IPv4 address isn't "on the Internet". That may change in the future, but right now this is the web site's fault, not your ISP's. Wishing that the IPv6 transition had gone differently does not change reality. Matthew Kaufman (Sent from my iPhone) From owen at delong.com Wed Oct 7 13:38:23 2015 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2015 06:38:23 -0700 Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: References: <7E645C67-2F5C-4CA0-9C0E-1BA41AF24ABC@delong.com> <20151004.164120.41639562.sthaug@nethelp.no> <18661688-294A-4662-8380-DF6C2C490E6F@beckman.org> Message-ID: <1CE1CD09-924F-4C01-ABA1-3D197720B05A@delong.com> > On Oct 7, 2015, at 6:29 AM, Matthew Kaufman wrote: > > > >> On Oct 7, 2015, at 5:01 AM, Owen DeLong wrote: >> >> >> >> Instead, the followup question is needed? ?That?s great, but how does that help me reach a web site that doesn?t have and can?t get an IPv4 address?? >> >> Owen >> > > At the present time, a web site that doesn't have and can't get an IPv4 address isn't "on the Internet". > > That may change in the future, but right now this is the web site's fault, not your ISP's. > > Wishing that the IPv6 transition had gone differently does not change reality. > > Matthew Kaufman > > (Sent from my iPhone) Swift boating aside, repeating the same assertion doesn?t make it true. Owen From marka at isc.org Wed Oct 7 14:00:11 2015 From: marka at isc.org (Mark Andrews) Date: Thu, 08 Oct 2015 01:00:11 +1100 Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 07 Oct 2015 06:29:36 -0700." References: <7E645C67-2F5C-4CA0-9C0E-1BA41AF24ABC@delong.com> <20151004.164120.41639562.sthaug@nethelp.no> <18661688-294A-4662-8380-DF6C2C490E6F@beckman.org> Message-ID: <20151007140011.18E063A0FA32@rock.dv.isc.org> In message , Matthew Kaufman w rites: > > > > On Oct 7, 2015, at 5:01 AM, Owen DeLong wrote: > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > Instead, the followup question is needed=E2=80=A6 =E2=80=9CThat=E2=80=99s g > = > reat, but how does that help me reach a web site that doesn=E2=80=99t have a= > nd can=E2=80=99t get an IPv4 address?=E2=80=9D > >=20 > > Owen > >=20 > > At the present time, a web site that doesn't have and can't get an IPv4 addr= > ess isn't "on the Internet". It's on the Internet. ISP's that fail to supply IPv6 at this point in time are committing fraud if they claim to supply Internet connection. > That may change in the future, but right now this is the web site's fault, n= > ot your ISP's. No, it isn't the site's fault. The internet ran out of IPv4 addresses years ago. Not everyone can get a public adddress. There are millions of customers without a public IPv4 address that can host a site because they are behind a CGN which is only needed because of the short sightedness of lots of ISPs failing to deliver IPv6 to their customers. > Wishing that the IPv6 transition had gone differently does not change > reality. I don't see anyone wishing it went differnetly. I see someone pointing out the reality that lots of ISP's are way too late to delivering IPv6. *Every* ISP should have been planning to deliver IPv6 by the time the first RIR ran out of IPv4 addresses. That would have been just-in-time engineering. It's not like they didn't have over a decade to plan to do it, It's not like there wern't reasonable accurate forcecasts for when that would happen. It was not hard to see what would happen if you didn't deliver IPv6 before the first RIR ran out. No instead most of then stuck their heads in the sand and said "we have enough IPv4 addresses" without looking at whom they need to connect with. Mark > Matthew Kaufman > > (Sent from my iPhone) -- Mark Andrews, ISC 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: marka at isc.org From jabley at hopcount.ca Wed Oct 7 14:06:33 2015 From: jabley at hopcount.ca (Joe Abley) Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2015 10:06:33 -0400 Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: References: <7E645C67-2F5C-4CA0-9C0E-1BA41AF24ABC@delong.com> <20151004.164120.41639562.sthaug@nethelp.no> <18661688-294A-4662-8380-DF6C2C490E6F@beckman.org> Message-ID: <5C539A2D-EBD1-4CE8-A138-D92ACDF81E3F@hopcount.ca> On 7 Oct 2015, at 9:29, Matthew Kaufman wrote: >> On Oct 7, 2015, at 5:01 AM, Owen DeLong wrote: >> >> Instead, the followup question is needed? ?That?s great, but >> how does that help me reach a web site that doesn?t have and >> can?t get an IPv4 address?? > > At the present time, a web site that doesn't have and can't get an > IPv4 address isn't "on the Internet". By the only definition of the Internet that matters, the function "is on the Internet" is very much in the eye of the beholder. Using this definition, v6-only services are most certainly "on the Internet" for people who have v6 connectivity. Similarly, various instances of the Pirate Bay that have v4 reachability are not "on the Internet" for end-users in draconian jurisdictions like the UK. Trying to make assertions about what "on the Internet" means in a general, global sense is an effort doomed to failure. I realise you're talking in pragmatic terms about services that have a general, dispersed, global end-user population, but not all services are like that. Joe [1] Internet, n: ?the largest equivalence class in the reflexive transitive symmetric closure of the relationship ?can be reached by an IP packet from?? (Seth Breidbart) From list at satchell.net Wed Oct 7 14:16:42 2015 From: list at satchell.net (Stephen Satchell) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2015 07:16:42 -0700 Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: References: <7E645C67-2F5C-4CA0-9C0E-1BA41AF24ABC@delong.com> <20151004.164120.41639562.sthaug@nethelp.no> <18661688-294A-4662-8380-DF6C2C490E6F@beckman.org> Message-ID: <5615294A.4030302@satchell.net> On 10/07/2015 06:29 AM, Matthew Kaufman wrote: >> On Oct 7, 2015, at 5:01 AM, Owen DeLong wrote: >>> >>> Instead, the followup question is needed? ?That?s great, but how >>> does that help me reach a web site that doesn?t have and can?t get an >>> IPv4 address?? >> > At the present time, a web site that doesn't have and can't get an IPv4 address isn't "on the Internet". Boy, this is drifting rather badly from the NANOG charter. That said, let be disabuse you of a notion: if someone wants to put up a web site, it's very, very easy to find a place that can provide an IPv4 IP address for the service. It won't be a *private* IPv4 address, but... Frankly, there are plenty of Web hosts that provide the service. Not good enough? Try using a cloud service to host your private WWW server. Still not good enough? Use a Web host and its IPv4 access to layer-7 proxy your IPv6-only web site. Finding a Web hosting company with IPv6 support is a little more effort. Start with this list: https://www.sixxs.net/wiki/IPv6_Enabled_Hosting When I was working for a Web hosting company, along with 60 or so shared-hosting servers, we had one monster CPanel server (offering dirt-cheap low-performance hosting) with more than 1,000 sites on it, served by a single IP address. From tim at pelican.org Wed Oct 7 14:18:11 2015 From: tim at pelican.org (tim at pelican.org) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2015 15:18:11 +0100 (BST) Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: <7556F5B2-A9CF-4654-893E-007312C2B4EC@delong.com> References: <20151003.115707.448347413282905946.wwaites@tardis.ed.ac.uk> <7E645C67-2F5C-4CA0-9C0E-1BA41AF24ABC@delong.com> <56113C5C.8050702@satchell.net> <7556F5B2-A9CF-4654-893E-007312C2B4EC@delong.com> Message-ID: <1444227491.99321374@apps.rackspace.com> On Wednesday, 7 October, 2015 12:54, "Owen DeLong" said: > There are some important differences for ICMP (don?t break PMTU-D or ND), > but otherwise, really not much difference between your IPv4 security policy and > your IPv6 security policy. The IPv4 world would have been nicer without quite so much of the "ICMP is eeeeeeeeevil!" nonsense, but agreed, it's somewhat more fundamental in IPv6. > In fact, on my linux box, I generate my IPv4 iptables file using little more than > a global search and replace on the IPv6 iptables configuration which replaces the > IPv6 prefixes/addresses with the corresponding IPv4 prefixes/addresses. (My IPv6 > addresses for things that take incoming connections have an algorithmic map to > IPv4 addresses for things that have them.) Similarly for at least some supplied tools on top of iptables. 'ufw' Just Works with both - 'ufw allow 25/tcp' will insert the appropriate rule into both iptables and ip6tables, for example. Regards, Tim. From matthew at matthew.at Wed Oct 7 14:37:07 2015 From: matthew at matthew.at (Matthew Kaufman) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2015 07:37:07 -0700 Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: <20151007140011.18E063A0FA32@rock.dv.isc.org> References: <7E645C67-2F5C-4CA0-9C0E-1BA41AF24ABC@delong.com> <20151004.164120.41639562.sthaug@nethelp.no> <18661688-294A-4662-8380-DF6C2C490E6F@beckman.org> <20151007140011.18E063A0FA32@rock.dv.isc.org> Message-ID: <520CE953-012C-4599-A85B-69517E0904DC@matthew.at> > On Oct 7, 2015, at 7:00 AM, Mark Andrews wrote: > > > In message , Matthew Kaufman w > rites: >> >> >>> On Oct 7, 2015, at 5:01 AM, Owen DeLong wrote: >>> =20 >>> =20 >>> =20 >>> Instead, the followup question is needed=E2=80=A6 =E2=80=9CThat=E2=80=99s g >> = >> reat, but how does that help me reach a web site that doesn=E2=80=99t have a= >> nd can=E2=80=99t get an IPv4 address?=E2=80=9D >>> =20 >>> Owen >>> =20 >> >> At the present time, a web site that doesn't have and can't get an IPv4 addr= >> ess isn't "on the Internet". > > It's on the Internet. ISP's that fail to supply IPv6 at this point > in time are committing fraud if they claim to supply Internet > connection. Good luck prosecuting them for that. Along with all the internal IT departments that are failing to deliver v6 to wifi and desktops. > >> That may change in the future, but right now this is the web site's fault, n= >> ot your ISP's. > > No, it isn't the site's fault. The internet ran out of IPv4 addresses > years ago. Not everyone can get a public adddress. Right. Now it is only people who can afford about $8 one time. (The going rate for IPv4 on the transfer market at modest block sizes) > There are > millions of customers without a public IPv4 address that can host > a site because they are behind a CGN which is only needed because > of the short sightedness of lots of ISPs failing to deliver IPv6 > to their customers. I think you meant cannot. Most consumer ISPs also prevent this as a matter of policy. Good luck getting those policies changed. > >> Wishing that the IPv6 transition had gone differently does not change >> reality. > > I don't see anyone wishing it went differnetly. I see someone > pointing out the reality that lots of ISP's are way too late to > delivering IPv6. Sure, they're too late. Which is why, until there's more progress, a website not reachable over IPv4 is fairly useless if the goal is to serve "most of the users on the Internet" > > *Every* ISP should have been planning to deliver IPv6 by the time > the first RIR ran out of IPv4 addresses. That would have been > just-in-time engineering. It's not like they didn't have over a > decade to plan to do it, It's not like there wern't reasonable > accurate forcecasts for when that would happen. Yeah, totally agree. Didn't happen. Still hasn't happened. Won't happen tomorrow. > > It was not hard to see what would happen if you didn't deliver IPv6 > before the first RIR ran out. > > No instead most of then stuck their heads in the sand and said "we > have enough IPv4 addresses" without looking at whom they need to > connect with. Last I checked, things are still working out just fine for all of them. Despite the obvious concerns about the future. Matthew Kaufman (Sent from my iPhone) From mark.tinka at seacom.mu Wed Oct 7 14:42:25 2015 From: mark.tinka at seacom.mu (Mark Tinka) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2015 16:42:25 +0200 Subject: Question re session hijacking in dual stack environments w/MacOS In-Reply-To: <20151002054647.GA57805@geeks.org> References: <560A3C8F.4060306@seacom.mu> <20151002054647.GA57805@geeks.org> Message-ID: <56152F51.5000909@seacom.mu> On 2/Oct/15 07:46, Doug McIntyre wrote: > I suspect this is OSX implementing IPv6 Privacy Extensions. Where OSX > generates a new random IPv6 address, applies it to the interface, and then > drops the old IPv6 addresses as they stale out. Sessions in use or not. > > sudo sysctl -w net.inet6.ip6.use_tempaddr=0 > > sudo sh -c 'echo net.inet6.ip6.use_tempaddr=0 >> /etc/sysctl.conf' Interesting. Thanks, Doug. I just upgraded to El Capitan, so I'll see if there are any changes in that when I'm back in the office, and then look at your suggestion if not. Thanks. Mark. From jcurran at arin.net Wed Oct 7 15:38:02 2015 From: jcurran at arin.net (John Curran) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2015 15:38:02 +0000 Subject: Fwd: [arin-announce] Combined Registration Services Agreement Released In-Reply-To: <56153AE5.5060602@arin.net> References: <56153AE5.5060602@arin.net> Message-ID: <168FF198-B13E-4C49-8F3F-2AA3CFC95DCC@arin.net> Folks - Apologies for the distraction, but the revised RSA/LRSA is out, and it addresses some of the concerns raised in this community. See attached announcement for details. /John Begin forwarded message: From: ARIN > Date: October 7, 2015 at 11:31:49 AM GMT-4 To: > Subject: [arin-announce] Combined Registration Services Agreement Released ARIN is pleased to announce the release of the new combined Registration Services Agreement ("RSA Version 12.0 / LRSA version 4.0"). This agreement is the successor to existing RSA and LRSA agreements. On 1 September 2015, ARIN concluded its consultation with the community with regards to this combined agreement. The revisions found in this new agreement were based on the feedback received from the community over the past few years. RSA Version 12.0 / LRSA Version 4.0 is an update to the previous RSA Version 11.0 and LRSA Version 3.0, which were already quite similar in terms. This single agreement will be used moving forward effective 6 October 2015 and includes notable and substantive revisions including but not limited to: * The agreements term's are only applicable to "Included Number Resources" (i.e. the Internet number resources pursuant to the agreement, not any other number resources that parties may hold under an existing LRSA or under no agreement) * Similarly clarifying that "Included Number Resources" are not property is only applicable to the "Included Number Resources" in the agreement * Provides uniform service terms and conditions (other than fees) for all customers receiving services from ARIN * Defines ARIN's services that are covered by the agreement, including resource certification * Provides a more balanced agreement with more limited rights to ARIN and more equivalent rights to holders * Clarifying the notification provisions to protect both parties * ARIN's Fee Schedule will not be applied retroactivity, and * Clarifying renewals to meet the needs of governmental entities. Existing holders of Internet number resources have the opportunity to upgrade to this new version of the registration services agreement. They can retain their current registration services agreement if they choose. To view RSA Version 12.0 / LRSA Version 4.0 please visit: https://www.arin.net/resources/agreements/rsa.pdf Note that the final RSA Version 12.0 / LRSA Version 4.0 incorporates changes and clarifications as a result of the community consultation on the earlier draft that closed on 1 September 2015. Differences between that earlier draft and the final RSA Version 12.0 / LRSA Version 4.0 are highlighted in a redlined document: https://www.arin.net/resources/agreements/changes_rsa12_draft.pdf Anyone needing further information about the RSA Version 12.0 / LRSA Version 4.0 can call the Financial Services Help Desk at +1-703-227-9886 or send an email to billing at arin.net. Nothing in this announcement alters or otherwise modifies any terms of RSAs previously signed. Regards, John Curran President & CEO American Registry for Internet Numbers, Ltd. (ARIN) _______________________________________________ ARIN-Announce You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN Announce Mailing List (ARIN-announce at arin.net). Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-announce Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. From johnl at iecc.com Wed Oct 7 18:59:10 2015 From: johnl at iecc.com (John Levine) Date: 7 Oct 2015 18:59:10 -0000 Subject: How to wish you hadn't forced ipv6 adoption (was "How to force rapid ipv6 adoption") In-Reply-To: <20151006181655.GC20816@besserwisser.org> Message-ID: <20151007185910.31413.qmail@ary.lan> >Using the link-level address to distinguish between good and bad email >content was always daunting at best. Thanks for pointing out that this >flawed behaviour must cease. I don't know anyone who does that. But I know a lot of people who use both IPv4 and IPv6 addresses to distinguish among "has sent legit mail", "is a spambot", and "no history". Those are handy when mixed into the usual multi-factor spam filtering. Outright blocking on conservative lists of spambots like the CBL (now XBL) works well, too. R's, John From israel.lugo at lugosys.com Wed Oct 7 19:58:08 2015 From: israel.lugo at lugosys.com (Israel G. Lugo) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2015 20:58:08 +0100 Subject: How to force rapid ipv6 adoption In-Reply-To: <2D8D55F1-6673-4DAA-A3CC-2A55AD21801F@delong.com> References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560D9DD0.2030904@Janoszka.pl> <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE@delong.com> <20151001222813.B9469391102B@rock.dv.isc.org> <20151001232613.GD123100@rootmail.cc.le.ac.uk> <20151002000125.9CD573911EF5@rock.dv.isc.org> <639A3CAD-88A3-4CAB-BD36-2C0AC0D34B1B@silverlakeinternet.com> <2D8D55F1-6673-4DAA-A3CC-2A55AD21801F@delong.com> Message-ID: <56157950.5040400@lugosys.com> On 10/03/2015 08:40 PM, Owen DeLong wrote: > So a /48 isn?t about being able to support 295,147,905,179,352,825,856 devices in every home, it?s about being able to have 16 bits of subnet mask to use in delegating addresses in a dynamic plug-and-play hierarchical topology that can evolve on demand without user configuration or intervention. Which is IMO scarcely enough to be as flexible as IPv6 is being touted. I've always considered 16 bits of subnetting way too small for an end site. Especially if you want to do things like dynamic plug-and-play hierarchical topology. Just following Robin Johansson's example in another email: On 10/02/2015 07:08 PM, Robin Johansson wrote: > If a /48 is assigned to each customer, then the first wireless router > gets a /52, second router a /56 and there is room to connect one more > level of devices. All works out of the box, everyone is happy, no > support calls. We only have up to 3 levels, and each level only supports 16 branches. May be fine for mom and dad now, but certainly not for other complex cases. And when you start factoring the whole "soup cans with IPv6" thing... I still think IPv6 should've been at least 192 bits long. Israel G. Lugo From rps at maine.edu Wed Oct 7 20:03:47 2015 From: rps at maine.edu (Ray Soucy) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2015 16:03:47 -0400 Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: <56151A76.9010305@satchell.net> References: <20151003.115707.448347413282905946.wwaites@tardis.ed.ac.uk> <7E645C67-2F5C-4CA0-9C0E-1BA41AF24ABC@delong.com> <56113C5C.8050702@satchell.net> <7556F5B2-A9CF-4654-893E-007312C2B4EC@delong.com> <56151A76.9010305@satchell.net> Message-ID: Here is a quick starting point for filtering IPv6 on a Linux host system if you don't feel comfortable opening up all ICMPv6 traffic: http://soucy.org/tmp/v6firewall/ip6tables.txt I haven't really re-visited it in a while, so if I'm forgetting something let me know. On Wed, Oct 7, 2015 at 9:13 AM, Stephen Satchell wrote: > This is excellent feedback, thank you. > > On 10/07/2015 04:54 AM, Owen DeLong wrote: > >> >> On Oct 4, 2015, at 7:49 AM, Stephen Satchell wrote: >>> >>> My bookshelf is full of books describing IPv4. Saying "IPv6 just >>> works" ignores the issues of configuring intelligent firewalls to block >>> the ne-er-do-wells using the new IP-level protocol. >>> >> >> You will need most of the same blockages in IPv6 that you needed in IPv4, >> actually. >> >> There are some important differences for ICMP (don?t break PMTU-D or >> ND), but otherwise, really not much difference between your IPv4 >> security policy and your IPv6 security policy. >> >> In fact, on my linux box, I generate my IPv4 iptables file using >> little more than a global search and replace on the IPv6 iptables >> configuration which replaces the IPv6 prefixes/addresses with the >> corresponding IPv4 prefixes/addresses. (My IPv6 addresses for things >> that take incoming connections have an algorithmic map to IPv4 addresses >> for things that have them.) >> > > On my box, I have a librry of shell functions that do the generation, > driven by parameter tables. If I'm reading you correctly, I can just > augment the parameter tables and those functions to generate the > appropriate corresponding ip6table commands in parallel with the iptable > commands. > > Question: should I still rate-limit ICMP packets in IPv6? Also, someone > on this list pointed me to NIST SP800-119, "Guidelines for the Secure > Deployment of IPv6", the contents of which which I will incorporate. > > There is limited IPv6 support in many of the GUIs still, >> unfortunately, but the command line tools are all there and for the >> most part work pretty much identically for v4 and v6, the difference >> often being as little as ping vs ping6 or vs. >> -6 . >> > > I've not been happy with the GUIs, because getting them to do what I want > is a royal pain. For example, I'm forced to use port-based redirection in > one edge firewall application -- I blew a whole weekend figuring out how to > do that with the CentOS 7 firewalld corkscrew, for a customer who outgrew > the RV-220 he used for the application. At least that didn't need IPv6! > > Primarily it involves changing the IPv4 addresses and/or prefixes >> into IPv6 addresses and/or prefixes. >> > > What about fragmented packets? And adjusting the parameters in ip6table > filters to detect the DNS "ANY" requests used in the DDoS amplification > attacks? > > I'm not asking NANOG to go past its charter, but I am asking the >>> IPv6fanatics on this mailing list to recognize that, even though the net >>> itself may be running IPv6, the support and education infrastructure is >>> still behind the curve. Reading RFCs is good, reading man pages is good, >>> but there is no guidance about how to implement end-network policies in >>> the wild yet...at least not that I've been able to find. >>> >> >> There is actually quite a bit of information out there. Sylvia >> Hagen?sIPv6 book covers a lot of this (O?Reilly publishes it). >> > > Um, that would be "books". Which one do you recommend I start with? > > * IPv6 Essentials (3rd Edition), 2014, ASIN: B00RWSNEKG > * Planning for IPv6 (1st Edition), 2011, ISBN-10: 1449305393 > > (I would assume the first, as the NIST document probably covers the > contents of the second) > > There are also several other good IPv6 books. >> > > Recommendations? > > "ipv6.disable" will be changed to zero when I know how to set the >>> firewall to implement the policies I need to keep other edge networks >>> from disrupting mine. >>> >> >> You do. You just don?t realize that you do. See above. >> > > That's encouraging. Being able to leverage the knowledge from IPv4 to > project the same policies into IPv6 makes it easier for me, as I'm already > using programmatic methods of generating the firewalls. I expected that > the implementation of existing applications-level policies would be > parallel; it's the policies further down the stack that was my concern. > > Also, I have a lot of IP level blocks (like simpler Cisco access control > lists) to shut out those people who like to bang on my SSH front door. I > believe that people who are so rude as to try to break through dozens or > hundreds of time a day will have other bad habits, and don't deserve to be > allowed for anything. (I have similar blocks for rabid spammers not in the > DNSBLs, but that's a different story.) I would expect to maintain a > separate list of IPv6 subnets, based on experience. > > Which brings up another question: should I block IPv6 access to port 25 > on my mail servers, and not announce a AAAA record for it? Postfix handles > IPv6, but I've seen discussion that e-mail service is going to be IPv4 only > for quite a while. Should I even enable IPv6 on my mail server at this > time? Or is that a question I should post elsewhere? > > As an aside, my day job is converting to Python programming, so my first > Python project may well be the conversion of my existing firewall generator > into that language. > > -- *Ray Patrick Soucy* Network Engineer I Networkmaine, University of Maine System US:IT 207-561-3526 From marka at isc.org Wed Oct 7 20:15:19 2015 From: marka at isc.org (Mark Andrews) Date: Thu, 08 Oct 2015 07:15:19 +1100 Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 07 Oct 2015 07:37:07 -0700." <520CE953-012C-4599-A85B-69517E0904DC@matthew.at> References: <7E645C67-2F5C-4CA0-9C0E-1BA41AF24ABC@delong.com> <20151004.164120.41639562.sthaug@nethelp.no> <18661688-294A-4662-8380-DF6C2C490E6F@beckman.org> <20151007140011.18E063A0FA32@rock.dv.isc.org> <520CE953-012C-4599-A85B-69517E0904DC@matthew.at> Message-ID: <20151007201519.7BCB23A104DA@rock.dv.isc.org> In message <520CE953-012C-4599-A85B-69517E0904DC at matthew.at>, Matthew Kaufman w rites: >> >> >> On Oct 7, 2015, at 7:00 AM, Mark Andrews wrote: >> >> >> In message , Matthew >> Kaufman w >> rites: >>> >>> >>>> On Oct 7, 2015, at 5:01 AM, Owen DeLong wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Instead, the followup question is needed??? >>>> ???That???s great, but how does that help me reach a web site that >>>> doesn???t have and can???t get an IPv4 address???? >>>> >>>> Owen >>>> >>> >>> At the present time, a web site that doesn't have and can't get an >>> IPv4 address isn't "on the Internet". >> >> It's on the Internet. ISP's that fail to supply IPv6 at this point >> in time are committing fraud if they claim to supply Internet >> connection. > >Good luck prosecuting them for that. I don't have to. I'm sure some AG will do so soon enough. >Along with all the internal IT departments that are failing to deliver v6 >to wifi and desktops. What does a companies decision about whether to use IPv6 internally have to do with the matter? It's not fraud to not use IPv6. It is fraud to claim that you supply "the Internet" and don't supply IPv6. >>> That may change in the future, but right now this is the web site's >>> fault, not your ISP's. >> >> No, it isn't the site's fault. The internet ran out of IPv4 addresses >> years ago. Not everyone can get a public adddress. >> >Right. Now it is only people who can afford about $8 one time. (The going >rate for IPv4 on the transfer market at modest block sizes) > >> There are >> millions of customers without a public IPv4 address that can host >> a site because they are behind a CGN which is only needed because >> of the short sightedness of lots of ISPs failing to deliver IPv6 >> to their customers. >> >I think you meant cannot. Yes, "cannot host a site". >Most consumer ISPs also prevent this as a matter of policy. Good luck >getting those policies changed. Actually most don't. Remember a "site" can be the remote controls for equipement at home. >>> Wishing that the IPv6 transition had gone differently does not change >>> reality. >> >> I don't see anyone wishing it went differnetly. I see someone >> pointing out the reality that lots of ISP's are way too late to >> delivering IPv6. >> >Sure, they're too late. Which is why, until there's more progress, a >website not reachable over IPv4 is fairly useless if the goal is to serve >"most of the users on the Internet" >> >> >> *Every* ISP should have been planning to deliver IPv6 by the time >> the first RIR ran out of IPv4 addresses. That would have been >> just-in-time engineering. It's not like they didn't have over a >> decade to plan to do it, It's not like there wern't reasonable >> accurate forcecasts for when that would happen. >> >Yeah, totally agree. Didn't happen. Still hasn't happened. Won't happen >tomorrow. Which still doesn't make it the fault of the site that can only get IPv6. >> It was not hard to see what would happen if you didn't deliver IPv6 >> before the first RIR ran out. >> >> No instead most of then stuck their heads in the sand and said "we >> have enough IPv4 addresses" without looking at whom they need to >> connect with. >> >Last I checked, things are still working out just fine for all of them. >Despite the obvious concerns about the future. Usually only because they abuse their oligopoly position. The FCC (US) / ACCC (AUS) etc. should be prosecuting ISP's that don't supply IPv6 at this point in time. >Matthew Kaufman >> >(Sent from my iPhone) > -- Mark Andrews, ISC 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: marka at isc.org From mel at beckman.org Wed Oct 7 20:23:57 2015 From: mel at beckman.org (Mel Beckman) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2015 20:23:57 +0000 Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: <7EB5C4BD-E1C1-4720-9E94-C834DBE83E75@delong.com> References: <7E645C67-2F5C-4CA0-9C0E-1BA41AF24ABC@delong.com> <20151004.164120.41639562.sthaug@nethelp.no> <18661688-294A-4662-8380-DF6C2C490E6F@beckman.org>, <7EB5C4BD-E1C1-4720-9E94-C834DBE83E75@delong.com> Message-ID: We know. I recommend you read the whole thread before reacting. -mel beckman > On Oct 7, 2015, at 4:56 AM, Owen DeLong wrote: > > >> On Oct 4, 2015, at 7:52 AM, Mel Beckman wrote: >> >> If it doesn't support IPSec, it's not really IPv6. Just as if it failed to support any other mandatory IPv6 specification, such as RA. > > Not true. IPSec is recommended, not mandatory. > > This change was made in favor of resource constrained nodes (think micro controllers with very small memories). > >> There's really no excuse for not supporting IPSec, as it's a widely available open source component that costs nothing to incorporate into an IPv6 stack. > > Simply not true. There are nodes which have no need for it and are resource constrained. > >> Your observation simply means that users must be informed when buying IPv6 devices, just as they must with any product. You can buy either genuine IPv6 or half-baked IPv6 products. When I speak of IPv6, I speak only of the genuine article. > > This is true. If you need the device to support IPv6, you should definitely make sure that it does, but that is ordinary reality with any feature of any product rather than anything specific to IPv6. > > Owen > From marka at isc.org Wed Oct 7 20:26:29 2015 From: marka at isc.org (Mark Andrews) Date: Thu, 08 Oct 2015 07:26:29 +1100 Subject: How to force rapid ipv6 adoption In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 07 Oct 2015 20:58:08 +0100." <56157950.5040400@lugosys.com> References: <20151001012652.5801438FB5F0@rock.dv.isc.org> <560D9DD0.2030904@Janoszka.pl> <4F2E19BA-D92A-4BEC-86E2-33B405C307BE@delong.com> <20151001222813.B9469391102B@rock.dv.isc.org> <20151001232613.GD123100@rootmail.cc.le.ac.uk> <20151002000125.9CD573911EF5@rock.dv.isc.org> <639A3CAD-88A3-4CAB-BD36-2C0AC0D34B1B@silverlakeinternet.com> <2D8D55F1-6673-4DAA-A3CC-2A55AD21801F@delong.com> <56157950.5040400@lugosys.com> Message-ID: <20151007202629.986D73A106C3@rock.dv.isc.org> In message <56157950.5040400 at lugosys.com>, "Israel G. Lugo" writes: > > On 10/03/2015 08:40 PM, Owen DeLong wrote: > > So a /48 isn???t about being able to support 295,147,905,179,352,825,856 devic > es in every home, it???s about being able to have 16 bits of subnet mask to use > in delegating addresses in a dynamic plug-and-play hierarchical topology that > can evolve on demand without user configuration or intervention. > > Which is IMO scarcely enough to be as flexible as IPv6 is being touted. > I've always considered 16 bits of subnetting way too small for an end > site. Especially if you want to do things like dynamic plug-and-play > hierarchical topology. Just following Robin Johansson's example in > another email: Which is why "homenet" routers don't do that. They just get the prefixes they need now and route them within the site. If they need a additional prefix they ask for it when they needed it. 65000 routes is not a lot of routes for even the smallest of routers to handle. Mark > On 10/02/2015 07:08 PM, Robin Johansson wrote: > > If a /48 is assigned to each customer, then the first wireless router > > gets a /52, second router a /56 and there is room to connect one more > > level of devices. All works out of the box, everyone is happy, no > > support calls. > > We only have up to 3 levels, and each level only supports 16 branches. > May be fine for mom and dad now, but certainly not for other complex > cases. And when you start factoring the whole "soup cans with IPv6" thing... > > I still think IPv6 should've been at least 192 bits long. > > Israel G. Lugo -- Mark Andrews, ISC 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: marka at isc.org From matthew at matthew.at Wed Oct 7 21:49:44 2015 From: matthew at matthew.at (Matthew Kaufman) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2015 17:49:44 -0400 Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: <20151007201519.7BCB23A104DA@rock.dv.isc.org> References: <7E645C67-2F5C-4CA0-9C0E-1BA41AF24ABC@delong.com> <20151004.164120.41639562.sthaug@nethelp.no> <18661688-294A-4662-8380-DF6C2C490E6F@beckman.org> <20151007140011.18E063A0FA32@rock.dv.isc.org> <520CE953-012C-4599-A85B-69517E0904DC@matthew.at> <20151007201519.7BCB23A104DA@rock.dv.isc.org> Message-ID: > On Oct 7, 2015, at 4:15 PM, Mark Andrews wrote: > > > I don't have to. I'm sure some AG will do so soon enough. There's always an optimist around. Good luck with that. Matthew Kaufman (Sent from my iPhone) From matthew at matthew.at Thu Oct 8 13:14:24 2015 From: matthew at matthew.at (Matthew Kaufman) Date: Thu, 08 Oct 2015 06:14:24 -0700 Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: <20151007140011.18E063A0FA32@rock.dv.isc.org> References: <7E645C67-2F5C-4CA0-9C0E-1BA41AF24ABC@delong.com> <20151004.164120.41639562.sthaug@nethelp.no> <18661688-294A-4662-8380-DF6C2C490E6F@beckman.org> <20151007140011.18E063A0FA32@rock.dv.isc.org> Message-ID: <56166C30.3070501@matthew.at> On 10/7/15 7:00 AM, Mark Andrews wrote: > I don't see anyone wishing it went differnetly. I see someone pointing > out the reality that lots of ISP's are way too late to delivering > IPv6. *Every* ISP should have been planning to deliver IPv6 by the > time the first RIR ran out of IPv4 addresses. Look, I'm as much a supporter of delivering IPv6 as anyone. I've had IPv6 enabled on my home network (and the small data center I run in my garage) for over a decade now. In 2004, I made sure that IPv6 was fully supported in the peer-to-peer stack I developed and that eventually became RFC 7016. And for the last 5 years I've been pushing for IPv6 support in the product I work on for my employer. But the reality is that there's a whole lot of small and medium-sized ISPs run by fine, upstanding individuals serving their communities -- even in and around the San Francisco Bay Area -- that have either no or very limited (tunnels only) support for IPv6. That's the reality of the transition. And threatening these folks with the attorney general isn't the way to get them to adopt IPv6, nor is shaming them. They will add IPv6 support when it is easy to do, when their staff has the time, and when the economics make sense. Meanwhile we have app developers trying to use cloud platforms that don't support IPv6 well (or at all), writing code while sitting in offices that don't have IPv6 service due either to their ISP or their internal IT department... and so there's another reason ISPs need to keep concentrating on IPv4 as their first priority. And so, in the current actual Internet, not some hypothetical one, if you want your website to be seen, you get it an IPv4 address. And with IPv4 going for $6-$8 each and it being possible to support hundreds or thousands of websites on a single IPv4 address, there's really no excuse. Will this be different in the future? I sure hope so. But we're not there yet. Matthew Kaufman From Valdis.Kletnieks at vt.edu Thu Oct 8 13:45:43 2015 From: Valdis.Kletnieks at vt.edu (Valdis.Kletnieks at vt.edu) Date: Thu, 08 Oct 2015 09:45:43 -0400 Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: References: <7E645C67-2F5C-4CA0-9C0E-1BA41AF24ABC@delong.com> <20151004.164120.41639562.sthaug@nethelp.no> <18661688-294A-4662-8380-DF6C2C490E6F@beckman.org> <20151007140011.18E063A0FA32@rock.dv.isc.org> <520CE953-012C-4599-A85B-69517E0904DC@matthew.at> <20151007201519.7BCB23A104DA@rock.dv.isc.org> Message-ID: <87751.1444311943@turing-police.cc.vt.edu> On Wed, 07 Oct 2015 17:49:44 -0400, Matthew Kaufman said: > > > > On Oct 7, 2015, at 4:15 PM, Mark Andrews wrote: > > > > > > I don't have to. I'm sure some AG will do so soon enough. > > There's always an optimist around. > > Good luck with that. And I happened to get a big thing of very good microwave popcorn the other night. What perfect timing.... -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 848 bytes Desc: not available URL: From marka at isc.org Thu Oct 8 14:23:27 2015 From: marka at isc.org (Mark Andrews) Date: Fri, 09 Oct 2015 01:23:27 +1100 Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 08 Oct 2015 06:14:24 -0700." <56166C30.3070501@matthew.at> References: <7E645C67-2F5C-4CA0-9C0E-1BA41AF24ABC@delong.com> <20151004.164120.41639562.sthaug@nethelp.no> <18661688-294A-4662-8380-DF6C2C490E6F@beckman.org> <20151007140011.18E063A0FA32@rock.dv.isc.org> <56166C30.3070501@matthew.at> Message-ID: <20151008142327.432123A1A013@rock.dv.isc.org> In message <56166C30.3070501 at matthew.at>, Matthew Kaufman writes: > > > On 10/7/15 7:00 AM, Mark Andrews wrote: > > I don't see anyone wishing it went differnetly. I see someone pointing > > out the reality that lots of ISP's are way too late to delivering > > IPv6. *Every* ISP should have been planning to deliver IPv6 by the > > time the first RIR ran out of IPv4 addresses. > > Look, I'm as much a supporter of delivering IPv6 as anyone. I've had > IPv6 enabled on my home network (and the small data center I run in my > garage) for over a decade now. In 2004, I made sure that IPv6 was fully > supported in the peer-to-peer stack I developed and that eventually > became RFC 7016. And for the last 5 years I've been pushing for IPv6 > support in the product I work on for my employer. And I've done tunnelled (home) and native (office in RWC) for over a decade. > But the reality is that there's a whole lot of small and medium-sized > ISPs run by fine, upstanding individuals serving their communities -- > even in and around the San Francisco Bay Area -- that have either no or > very limited (tunnels only) support for IPv6. That's the reality of the > transition. And threatening these folks with the attorney general isn't > the way to get them to adopt IPv6, nor is shaming them. They will add > IPv6 support when it is easy to do, when their staff has the time, and > when the economics make sense. I'm happy if they advertise "IPv4 Internet Only", just don't lie by claiming you deliever the Internet. To deliver the Internet you need to be delivering both IPv4 and IPv6. > Meanwhile we have app developers trying to use cloud platforms that > don't support IPv6 well (or at all), writing code while sitting in > offices that don't have IPv6 service due either to their ISP or their > internal IT department... and so there's another reason ISPs need to > keep concentrating on IPv4 as their first priority. Just because some of the ISP's customers are happy with IPv4 is not a reason to neglect the customers that need IPv6. You may not want to call the Sudan often but would you want your telco to be incapable of delivering calls to the Sudan? > And so, in the current actual Internet, not some hypothetical one, if > you want your website to be seen, you get it an IPv4 address. And with > IPv4 going for $6-$8 each and it being possible to support hundreds or > thousands of websites on a single IPv4 address, there's really no excuse. And there you go assuming that a hosted web site is what someone needs rather than the ability to get back to their machines that are behind a CGN for IPv4 but are reachable over IPv6. This is today's reality and ISP's are not meeting today's needs. It's not just about having enough IPv4 addresses. It's about providing the infrastructure to allow your customers to connect to everyone. > Will this be different in the future? I sure hope so. But we're not > there yet. > > Matthew Kaufman -- Mark Andrews, ISC 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: marka at isc.org From cdel at firsthand.net Thu Oct 8 14:27:27 2015 From: cdel at firsthand.net (Christian de Larrinaga) Date: Thu, 08 Oct 2015 15:27:27 +0100 Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: <56166C30.3070501@matthew.at> References: <7E645C67-2F5C-4CA0-9C0E-1BA41AF24ABC@delong.com> <20151004.164120.41639562.sthaug@nethelp.no> <18661688-294A-4662-8380-DF6C2C490E6F@beckman.org> <20151007140011.18E063A0FA32@rock.dv.isc.org> <56166C30.3070501@matthew.at> Message-ID: <56167D4F.5060708@firsthand.net> Around 2004 I noted that the fear was without v4 something in the network would break. (It was considered crazy then to consider v6 only). Now I'm seeing concern that something in the applications will break. The difference is that networks can't guarantee to push static IPv4 to those problems like they could. New networks can't establish let alone grow unless they are essentially v6 only with v4 translation. But I'm seeing concern that some of these newer IETF transition mechanisms are too complex or expensive - i.e., off-putting enough so a smaller ISP is forced to consider CGNAT. I'm not sure if this is just an isolated case or if there is something missing needed by smaller and growing ISPs . Christian Matthew Kaufman wrote: > > > On 10/7/15 7:00 AM, Mark Andrews wrote: >> I don't see anyone wishing it went differnetly. I see someone >> pointing out the reality that lots of ISP's are way too late to >> delivering IPv6. *Every* ISP should have been planning to deliver >> IPv6 by the time the first RIR ran out of IPv4 addresses. > > Look, I'm as much a supporter of delivering IPv6 as anyone. I've had > IPv6 enabled on my home network (and the small data center I run in my > garage) for over a decade now. In 2004, I made sure that IPv6 was > fully supported in the peer-to-peer stack I developed and that > eventually became RFC 7016. And for the last 5 years I've been pushing > for IPv6 support in the product I work on for my employer. > > But the reality is that there's a whole lot of small and medium-sized > ISPs run by fine, upstanding individuals serving their communities -- > even in and around the San Francisco Bay Area -- that have either no > or very limited (tunnels only) support for IPv6. That's the reality of > the transition. And threatening these folks with the attorney general > isn't the way to get them to adopt IPv6, nor is shaming them. They > will add IPv6 support when it is easy to do, when their staff has the > time, and when the economics make sense. > > Meanwhile we have app developers trying to use cloud platforms that > don't support IPv6 well (or at all), writing code while sitting in > offices that don't have IPv6 service due either to their ISP or their > internal IT department... and so there's another reason ISPs need to > keep concentrating on IPv4 as their first priority. > > And so, in the current actual Internet, not some hypothetical one, if > you want your website to be seen, you get it an IPv4 address. And with > IPv4 going for $6-$8 each and it being possible to support hundreds or > thousands of websites on a single IPv4 address, there's really no excuse. > > Will this be different in the future? I sure hope so. But we're not > there yet. > > Matthew Kaufman -- Christian de Larrinaga FBCS, CITP, ------------------------- @ FirstHand ------------------------- +44 7989 386778 cdel at firsthand.net ------------------------- From thegameiam at yahoo.com Thu Oct 8 14:38:58 2015 From: thegameiam at yahoo.com (David Barak) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 07:38:58 -0700 Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: <20151008142327.432123A1A013@rock.dv.isc.org> Message-ID: <1444315138.71110.YahooMailBasic@web142805.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> -------------------------------------------- On Thu, 10/8/15, Mark Andrews wrote: > This is today's reality and ISP's are not meeting > today's needs. > It's not just about > having enough IPv4 addresses. It's about > providing the infrastructure to allow your > customers to connect to > everyone. I think you should s/everyone/everyone they care about/ That roughly explains why there is no particular consumer outcry (which isn't about speed/bandwidth or mobile coverage, anyway). David Barak From nwarren at barryelectric.com Thu Oct 8 13:27:32 2015 From: nwarren at barryelectric.com (Nicholas Warren) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 13:27:32 +0000 Subject: BCOP Wiki Logo Missing Message-ID: http://nabcop.org/index.php For me the logo is a flower and it says "Set $wgLogo to the URL path to your own logo image." Am I the only one? - Thanks, Nich -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 4845 bytes Desc: not available URL: From martin at accelwireless.com Thu Oct 8 14:35:34 2015 From: martin at accelwireless.com (Martin Moreno) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 07:35:34 -0700 Subject: Need help with Time Warner announcing my new /24 on their network Message-ID: Hello we are an independent ISP single homed with bandwidth from Time Warner Cable fiber. I was wondering if a TW tech could reach out to me. We've received an allocation from ARIN that I've asked TW to announce on our behalf, we issued the LOA, and first line says that it is setup but we are not seeing the block in any looking glasses. Since we are not multi homed nor have our own AS TW did a static route from their gateway router /IP to our router but they are saying we need to do a next hop statement and to point the new /24 back to their gateway ip? We have gone over this a few times and I am not clear on this and how it would affect them announcing our /24 to Radb etc. I was under the impression that once the route was announced it would show up in Radb even without us doing anything on our end yet. Thanks -- Martin Moreno Owner Accel Wireless 949-616-4146 From mikea at mikea.ath.cx Thu Oct 8 14:59:45 2015 From: mikea at mikea.ath.cx (mikea) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 09:59:45 -0500 Subject: BCOP Wiki Logo Missing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20151008145945.GA81954@mikea.ath.cx> On Thu, Oct 08, 2015 at 01:27:32PM +0000, Nicholas Warren wrote: > http://nabcop.org/index.php > > For me the logo is a flower and it says "Set $wgLogo to the URL path to your > own logo image." > Am I the only one? Same here. I suspect that the page has not been fully customized. -- Mike Andrews, W5EGO mikea at mikea.ath.cx Tired old sysadmin From nwarren at barryelectric.com Thu Oct 8 15:26:18 2015 From: nwarren at barryelectric.com (Nicholas Warren) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 15:26:18 +0000 Subject: BCOP Wiki Logo Missing In-Reply-To: <20151008145945.GA81954@mikea.ath.cx> References: <20151008145945.GA81954@mikea.ath.cx> Message-ID: Doesn't the NANOG maintain that wiki? I remember the NANOG logo being on there at one time. Thank you, - Nich > -----Original Message----- > From: mikea [mailto:mikea at mikea.ath.cx] > Sent: Thursday, October 8, 2015 10:00 AM > To: Nicholas Warren > Cc: nanog at nanog.org > Subject: Re: BCOP Wiki Logo Missing > > On Thu, Oct 08, 2015 at 01:27:32PM +0000, Nicholas Warren wrote: > > http://nabcop.org/index.php > > > > For me the logo is a flower and it says "Set $wgLogo to the URL path > > to your own logo image." > > Am I the only one? > > Same here. I suspect that the page has not been fully customized. > > -- > Mike Andrews, W5EGO > mikea at mikea.ath.cx > Tired old sysadmin -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 4845 bytes Desc: not available URL: From hugo at slabnet.com Thu Oct 8 15:35:14 2015 From: hugo at slabnet.com (Hugo Slabbert) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 08:35:14 -0700 Subject: BCOP Wiki Logo Missing In-Reply-To: References: <20151008145945.GA81954@mikea.ath.cx> Message-ID: <20151008153514.GA15535@bamboo.slabnet.com> On Thu 2015-Oct-08 15:26:18 +0000, Nicholas Warren wrote: >Doesn't the NANOG maintain that wiki? I remember the NANOG logo being on >there at one time. You want some salt in that wound? http://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2015-September/079522.html > >Thank you, >- Nich -- Hugo hugo at slabnet.com: email, xmpp/jabber PGP fingerprint (B178313E): CF18 15FA 9FE4 0CD1 2319 1D77 9AB1 0FFD B178 313E (also on textsecure & redphone) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From bill at herrin.us Thu Oct 8 16:09:23 2015 From: bill at herrin.us (William Herrin) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 12:09:23 -0400 Subject: Need help with Time Warner announcing my new /24 on their network In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 10:35 AM, Martin Moreno wrote: > Since we are not multi homed nor have our own AS TW did a static route from > their gateway router /IP to our router but they are saying we need to do a > next hop statement and to point the new /24 back to their gateway ip? router bgp YOURAS# neighbor TWIP next-hop-self This tell your router to advertise your IP addresses with your router's address as the next hop. BGP does not do this automatically because in more complicated configurations it's often not the desired result. Regards, Bill Herrin -- William Herrin ................ herrin at dirtside.com bill at herrin.us Owner, Dirtside Systems ......... Web: From me at geordish.org Thu Oct 8 16:16:44 2015 From: me at geordish.org (Dave Bell) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 17:16:44 +0100 Subject: Need help with Time Warner announcing my new /24 on their network In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 10:35 AM, Martin Moreno wrote: >> Since we are not multi homed nor have our own AS TW did a static route from >> their gateway router /IP to our router On 8 October 2015 at 17:09, William Herrin wrote: > router bgp YOURAS# > neighbor TWIP next-hop-self > > This tell your router to advertise your IP addresses with your > router's address as the next hop. >From what he has written, he is not doing BGP with his upstream. In this case what is he supposed to be doing next hop self on? Sounds like TW have messed something up, and are not redistributing your prefix. Regards, Dave From bbartlomiej.mail at gmail.com Thu Oct 8 16:23:54 2015 From: bbartlomiej.mail at gmail.com (Bartek Krawczyk) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 18:23:54 +0200 Subject: Need help with Time Warner announcing my new /24 on their network In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Besides, swapping next hop is default in eBGP sessions. Next-hop-self is only needed for iBGP. On 8 October 2015 at 18:16, Dave Bell wrote: >> On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 10:35 AM, Martin Moreno wrote: >>> Since we are not multi homed nor have our own AS TW did a static route from >>> their gateway router /IP to our router > > On 8 October 2015 at 17:09, William Herrin wrote: >> router bgp YOURAS# >> neighbor TWIP next-hop-self >> >> This tell your router to advertise your IP addresses with your >> router's address as the next hop. > > From what he has written, he is not doing BGP with his upstream. In > this case what is he supposed to be doing next hop self on? > > Sounds like TW have messed something up, and are not redistributing your prefix. > > Regards, > Dave -- Bartek Krawczyk From mike-nanog at tiedyenetworks.com Thu Oct 8 16:29:39 2015 From: mike-nanog at tiedyenetworks.com (Mike) Date: Thu, 08 Oct 2015 09:29:39 -0700 Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: <56166C30.3070501@matthew.at> References: <7E645C67-2F5C-4CA0-9C0E-1BA41AF24ABC@delong.com> <20151004.164120.41639562.sthaug@nethelp.no> <18661688-294A-4662-8380-DF6C2C490E6F@beckman.org> <20151007140011.18E063A0FA32@rock.dv.isc.org> <56166C30.3070501@matthew.at> Message-ID: <561699F3.1070600@tiedyenetworks.com> On 10/08/2015 06:14 AM, Matthew Kaufman wrote: > > > On 10/7/15 7:00 AM, Mark Andrews wrote: >> I don't see anyone wishing it went differnetly. I see someone >> pointing out the reality that lots of ISP's are way too late to >> delivering IPv6. *Every* ISP should have been planning to deliver >> IPv6 by the time the first RIR ran out of IPv4 addresses. > > Look, I'm as much a supporter of delivering IPv6 as anyone. I've had > IPv6 enabled on my home network (and the small data center I run in my > garage) for over a decade now. In 2004, I made sure that IPv6 was > fully supported in the peer-to-peer stack I developed and that > eventually became RFC 7016. And for the last 5 years I've been pushing > for IPv6 support in the product I work on for my employer. > > But the reality is that there's a whole lot of small and medium-sized > ISPs run by fine, upstanding individuals serving their communities -- > even in and around the San Francisco Bay Area -- that have either no > or very limited (tunnels only) support for IPv6. That's the reality of > the transition. And threatening these folks with the attorney general > isn't the way to get them to adopt IPv6, nor is shaming them. They > will add IPv6 support when it is easy to do, when their staff has the > time, and when the economics make sense. > Plus one to that. We are such a provider, and IPv6 is on my list of things to implement, but the barriers are still plenty high. Firstly, I do have an Ipv6 assignmnt and bgp (v4) and an asn, but until I can get IPv6 transit, there is not much point in my putting a lot of effort into enabling IPv6 for my subscribers. Yes I have a HE tunnel and yes it's working, but it's not the same as running native v6 and with my own address space. Second, on the group of servers that have v6 thru the HE tunnel, I still run into problems all the time where some operations over v6 simply fail inexplictly, requireing me to turn off v6 on that host so whatever it is I'm doing can proceed over v4. Stuff like OS updates for example. Damm maddening. Can't imagine the screaming I'll hear if a home user ever ran into similar so I am quite gun shy about the prospect. Secondly, the the dodgy nature of the CPE connected to our network and the terminally buggy fw they all run is sure to be a never ending source of stupidity. Thirdly, some parts of my network are wireless, and multicast is a huge, huge problem on wireless (the 802.11 varities anyways). The forwarding rates for multicast are sickeningly low for many brand of gear - yes, it's at the bottom of the barrel no matter how good or hot your signal is - and I honestly expect v6 to experience enough disruption over wireless as to render it unusable for exactly this reason alone. The wired portion of my subscriber network is only slightly better, im pretty sure it can deal with v6 in the middle, but the question is still wether specfic CPE models can and which set of bugs I'll hit on my access concentrators passing our v6 over PPPoE. I just read about a cisco bug where enabling rp-filtering on v6 causes a router reload, which I would hit immediately since rp-filtering is a standard subscriber profile option here (trying to be a good netizen). How many other network destroying bugs await? The longer I wait on v6, the less work I will have to do dealing with bugs. So, as the original posted said, we'll do v6 when it's easy, when we have time, and when the economics make sense. Mike- From nwarren at barryelectric.com Thu Oct 8 17:38:49 2015 From: nwarren at barryelectric.com (Nicholas Warren) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 17:38:49 +0000 Subject: IPv6 Search Engine Message-ID: Not sure where to find this at... But is there a search engine out there that only returns sites which can be accessed via IPv6? Duel-stack or IPv6 only. Google results are all just dead links. - Thanks, Nich -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 4845 bytes Desc: not available URL: From nanog at ics-il.net Thu Oct 8 18:38:43 2015 From: nanog at ics-il.net (Mike Hammett) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 13:38:43 -0500 (CDT) Subject: NR Software\Xeex Communications Message-ID: <1173684070.10443.1444329568773.JavaMail.mhammett@ThunderFuck> Does anyone know what's going on over there? Any not-front door phone numbers, e-mail addresses, etc.? I haven't been getting responses from them for a while. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com From matthiasschroeder at forwardnetworks.com Thu Oct 8 18:12:16 2015 From: matthiasschroeder at forwardnetworks.com (Matthias Schroeder) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 11:12:16 -0700 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?What=E2=80=99s_the_best_way_to_get_in_contact_with_Net?= =?utf-8?Q?work_Operators_and_Engineers=3F_?= Message-ID: <448FAEA6-8CED-452B-8A4B-B2AE238DBEA4@forwardnetworks.com> Hi, I?m a UX designer in a startup and I'm doing a user research study about SDN products (It's basically interviews about the needs and pain-points of Network Operators and Engineers). I already created the application form ( http://svy.mk/1MgC8gt ) and every interviewee will get a $100 VISA gift card, but now the questions is: Do you have an idea how I can get participants for these interviews? I already tried searching and inviting potential candidates via Linkedin (takes way too long) and Twitter (almost impossible to find the right candidates). I appreciate all the help I can get. Thanks very much in advance! From nanog at ics-il.net Thu Oct 8 19:30:12 2015 From: nanog at ics-il.net (Mike Hammett) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 14:30:12 -0500 (CDT) Subject: NR Software\Xeex Communications In-Reply-To: <1173684070.10443.1444329568773.JavaMail.mhammett@ThunderFuck> Message-ID: <989780780.10520.1444332656713.JavaMail.mhammett@ThunderFuck> I know I'm going to be blowing the door wide open on this request, but I'd be interested in hearing from anyone else that was one of Equinix's first few customers. The deal I was getting on some services has been unrivaled, but the support I've received has been unrivaled in the not so pleasant way. It's time I just moved on. I need a vendor that responds at least within two weeks or 20 messages, whichever is more. (Twenty sounds like a lot, but when spread out over two weeks following other weeks of non-response, I don't think it's out of line.) ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Hammett" To: "nanog group" Sent: Thursday, October 8, 2015 1:38:43 PM Subject: NR Software\Xeex Communications Does anyone know what's going on over there? Any not-front door phone numbers, e-mail addresses, etc.? I haven't been getting responses from them for a while. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com From bob at FiberInternetCenter.com Thu Oct 8 20:09:49 2015 From: bob at FiberInternetCenter.com (Bob Evans) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 13:09:49 -0700 Subject: NR Software\Xeex Communications In-Reply-To: <989780780.10520.1444332656713.JavaMail.mhammett@ThunderFuck> References: <989780780.10520.1444332656713.JavaMail.mhammett@ThunderFuck> Message-ID: <9a5cc19f79eabcffefdcd99e76f887e0.squirrel@66.201.44.180> Equinix is truly one of the worst and over priced in Silicon Valley California. It's why Coresite does so well here. Coresite has less than 48 hour cross connect completion and remote hands the same day for non-emergencies. For rare emergencies you can rush remote hands and Coresite staff gets in your rack right away. We have been treated badly at PAIX PALO ALTO. In their paix palo alto facility they had a bathroom pipe break -we took photos- it rained "literally poured" on our rack. I had to tell the paix staff to run next door at Walgreens and buy all the paper towels they could until someone finds towels. Inches of water on the floor. Zero help or responsibility- giant waste of time. They are still in denial mode. Yet they paid the plumbers to repair the bathroom pipes that broke and had about 5 techs pushing inches of water around. We had to put in new gear and they never paid a dime - I think Equinix doesn't have insurance and doesn't care about your protection even if their facility fails. To our legal letter, their response was that our own insurance should pay. Our insurance didn't want to hear about it, because they cover customers and we had no customers gear involved. Thank You Bob Evans CTO > I know I'm going to be blowing the door wide open on this request, but I'd > be interested in hearing from anyone else that was one of Equinix's first > few customers. The deal I was getting on some services has been unrivaled, > but the support I've received has been unrivaled in the not so pleasant > way. It's time I just moved on. I need a vendor that responds at least > within two weeks or 20 messages, whichever is more. (Twenty sounds like a > lot, but when spread out over two weeks following other weeks of > non-response, I don't think it's out of line.) > > > > > ----- > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions > http://www.ics-il.com > > > > Midwest Internet Exchange > http://www.midwest-ix.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Mike Hammett" > To: "nanog group" > Sent: Thursday, October 8, 2015 1:38:43 PM > Subject: NR Software\Xeex Communications > > > Does anyone know what's going on over there? Any not-front door phone > numbers, e-mail addresses, etc.? I haven't been getting responses from > them for a while. > > > > > ----- > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions > http://www.ics-il.com > > > > Midwest Internet Exchange > http://www.midwest-ix.com > > > > > From charlesg at unixrealm.com Thu Oct 8 21:37:15 2015 From: charlesg at unixrealm.com (Scott Berkman) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 14:37:15 -0700 Subject: Fw: important message Message-ID: <000015aece11$3e052422$592bef07$@unixrealm.com> Hello! Important message, please read Scott Berkman From marka at isc.org Thu Oct 8 21:41:23 2015 From: marka at isc.org (Mark Andrews) Date: Fri, 09 Oct 2015 08:41:23 +1100 Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 08 Oct 2015 09:29:39 -0700." <561699F3.1070600@tiedyenetworks.com> References: <7E645C67-2F5C-4CA0-9C0E-1BA41AF24ABC@delong.com> <20151004.164120.41639562.sthaug@nethelp.no> <18661688-294A-4662-8380-DF6C2C490E6F@beckman.org> <20151007140011.18E063A0FA32@rock.dv.isc.org> <56166C30.3070501@matthew.at> <561699F3.1070600@tiedyenetworks.com> Message-ID: <20151008214123.95C343A1BC03@rock.dv.isc.org> In message <561699F3.1070600 at tiedyenetworks.com>, Mike writes: > On 10/08/2015 06:14 AM, Matthew Kaufman wrote: > > > > > > On 10/7/15 7:00 AM, Mark Andrews wrote: > >> I don't see anyone wishing it went differnetly. I see someone > >> pointing out the reality that lots of ISP's are way too late to > >> delivering IPv6. *Every* ISP should have been planning to deliver > >> IPv6 by the time the first RIR ran out of IPv4 addresses. > > > > Look, I'm as much a supporter of delivering IPv6 as anyone. I've had > > IPv6 enabled on my home network (and the small data center I run in my > > garage) for over a decade now. In 2004, I made sure that IPv6 was > > fully supported in the peer-to-peer stack I developed and that > > eventually became RFC 7016. And for the last 5 years I've been pushing > > for IPv6 support in the product I work on for my employer. > > > > But the reality is that there's a whole lot of small and medium-sized > > ISPs run by fine, upstanding individuals serving their communities -- > > even in and around the San Francisco Bay Area -- that have either no > > or very limited (tunnels only) support for IPv6. That's the reality of > > the transition. And threatening these folks with the attorney general > > isn't the way to get them to adopt IPv6, nor is shaming them. They > > will add IPv6 support when it is easy to do, when their staff has the > > time, and when the economics make sense. > > > > > Plus one to that. We are such a provider, and IPv6 is on my list of > things to implement, but the barriers are still plenty high. Firstly, I > do have an Ipv6 assignmnt and bgp (v4) and an asn, but until I can get > IPv6 transit, There are lots of transit providers that provide IPv6. It really is time to name and shame transit providers that don't provide IPv6. > there is not much point in my putting a lot of effort into > enabling IPv6 for my subscribers. Yes I have a HE tunnel and yes it's > working, but it's not the same as running native v6 and with my own > address space. Second, on the group of servers that have v6 thru the HE > tunnel, I still run into problems all the time where some operations > over v6 simply fail inexplictly, requireing me to turn off v6 on that > host so whatever it is I'm doing can proceed over v4. > Stuff like OS updates for example. Then complain to the OS vendor. It is most probably someone breaking PMTU discover by filtering PTB. Going native will hide these problems until the MTU between the DC and the rest of the net increases. You could also just lower the advertised MTU internally to match the tunnel MTU which would let you simulate better what a native experience would be. I can't remember the last time I saw a site stall due to reaching it over IPv6 it is that long ago. > Damm maddening. Can't imagine the screaming I'll > hear if a home user ever ran into similar so I am quite gun shy about > the prospect. Secondly, the the dodgy nature of the CPE connected to our > network and the terminally buggy fw they all run is sure to be a never > ending source of stupidity. CPE devices are buggy for IPv4 as well. Bugs in CPE devices are only found and fixed if the code paths are exercised. That said IPv6 worked fine for me with the shipped image (old version of OpenWRT) using 6to4 before I reflashed it to a modern version of OpenWRT as I wanted to use the HE tunnel rather than 6to4. I know that is only one CPE device. > Thirdly, some parts of my network are > wireless, and multicast is a huge, huge problem on wireless (the 802.11 > varities anyways). The forwarding rates for multicast are sickeningly > low for many brand of gear - yes, it's at the bottom of the barrel no > matter how good or hot your signal is - and I honestly expect v6 to > experience enough disruption over wireless as to render it unusable for > exactly this reason alone. You expect but haven't tested. > The wired portion of my subscriber network is only slightly better, im > pretty sure it can deal with v6 in the middle, but the question is still > wether specfic CPE models can and which set of bugs I'll hit on my > access concentrators passing our v6 over PPPoE. I just read about a > cisco bug where enabling rp-filtering on v6 causes a router reload, > which I would hit immediately since rp-filtering is a standard > subscriber profile option here (trying to be a good netizen). How many > other network destroying bugs await? The longer I wait on v6, the less > work I will have to do dealing with bugs. So, as the original posted > said, we'll do v6 when it's easy, when we have time, and when the > economics make sense. And is there a fix available yet? All code has bugs in it. They exist in both the IPv4 code paths and the IPv6 code paths. There are lots of places that are going IPv6 only internally and only having IPv4 at the fringe. You can't do that if routers are flakey when pushing IPv6 packets. This is basically just fear overriding rational decisions. > Mike- -- Mark Andrews, ISC 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: marka at isc.org From job at instituut.net Thu Oct 8 21:53:05 2015 From: job at instituut.net (Job Snijders) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 17:53:05 -0400 Subject: Fw: important message In-Reply-To: <000015aece11$3e052422$592bef07$@unixrealm.com> References: <000015aece11$3e052422$592bef07$@unixrealm.com> Message-ID: <20151008215305.GC14945@Vurt.local> On Thu, Oct 08, 2015 at 02:37:15PM -0700, Scott Berkman via NANOG wrote: > Hello! > > Important message, please read smells compromised, moderation flag has been enabled. don't click that link, sorry. Kind regards, Job (for the communications committee) From mike-nanog at tiedyenetworks.com Thu Oct 8 22:45:38 2015 From: mike-nanog at tiedyenetworks.com (Mike) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 15:45:38 -0700 Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: <20151008214123.95C343A1BC03@rock.dv.isc.org> References: <7E645C67-2F5C-4CA0-9C0E-1BA41AF24ABC@delong.com> <20151004.164120.41639562.sthaug@nethelp.no> <18661688-294A-4662-8380-DF6C2C490E6F@beckman.org> <20151007140011.18E063A0FA32@rock.dv.isc.org> <56166C30.3070501@matthew.at> <561699F3.1070600@tiedyenetworks.com> <20151008214123.95C343A1BC03@rock.dv.isc.org> Message-ID: <5616F212.8030706@tiedyenetworks.com> On 10/08/2015 02:41 PM, Mark Andrews wrote: > > > Plus one to that. We are such a provider, and IPv6 is on my list of > things to implement, but the barriers are still plenty high. Firstly, I > do have an Ipv6 assignmnt and bgp (v4) and an asn, but until I can get > IPv6 transit, > > There are lots of transit providers that provide IPv6. It really is > time to name and shame transit providers that don't provide IPv6. NO, THERE IS NOT. We operate in rural and underserved areas and WE DO NOT HAVE realistic choices. Can you see me from your ivory tower? >> there is not much point in my putting a lot of effort into >> enabling IPv6 for my subscribers. Yes I have a HE tunnel and yes it's >> working, but it's not the same as running native v6 and with my own >> address space. Second, on the group of servers that have v6 thru the HE >> tunnel, I still run into problems all the time where some operations >> over v6 simply fail inexplictly, requireing me to turn off v6 on that >> host so whatever it is I'm doing can proceed over v4. >> Stuff like OS updates for example. > Then complain to the OS vendor. It is most probably someone breaking > PMTU discover by filtering PTB. Going native will hide these > problems until the MTU between the DC and the rest of the net > increases. You could also just lower the advertised MTU internally > to match the tunnel MTU which would let you simulate better what a > native experience would be. Not my job. v4 works, v6 does not, end of story. > > I can't remember the last time I saw a site stall due to reaching it > over IPv6 it is that long ago. It happens every day for me, which only amplifies my perception that v6 IS NOT READY FOR PRIME TIME. >> Damm maddening. Can't imagine the screaming I'll >> hear if a home user ever ran into similar so I am quite gun shy about >> the prospect. Secondly, the the dodgy nature of the CPE connected to our >> network and the terminally buggy fw they all run is sure to be a never >> ending source of stupidity. > CPE devices are buggy for IPv4 as well. Bugs in CPE devices are > only found and fixed if the code paths are exercised. Not my job. v4 works, v6 does not. I am a provider not a developer. > That said IPv6 worked fine for me with the shipped image (old version > of OpenWRT) using 6to4 before I reflashed it to a modern version > of OpenWRT as I wanted to use the HE tunnel rather than 6to4. I > know that is only one CPE device. And will you be providing all of my end users with replacement CPE that meets all of the other requirements too? No? Because no such devices exist yet? OHHH yeah thats right, I'm a provider not a developer, so again, not a solution for my business. >> Thirdly, some parts of my network are >> wireless, and multicast is a huge, huge problem on wireless (the 802.11 >> varities anyways). The forwarding rates for multicast are sickeningly >> low for many brand of gear - yes, it's at the bottom of the barrel no >> matter how good or hot your signal is - and I honestly expect v6 to >> experience enough disruption over wireless as to render it unusable for >> exactly this reason alone. > You expect but haven't tested. Based on observation and experience, I think v6 will wipe out the 802.11 portion of my network and no, Im not going to 'test' it, recovery would be near impossible and in any event I don't experiment with paying customers. I won't move until the underlaying issues are resolved, and that means fixing multicast in wireless, which won't be done by me again because, you guessed it, I am a provider and not a developer. >> The wired portion of my subscriber network is only slightly better, im >> pretty sure it can deal with v6 in the middle, but the question is still >> wether specfic CPE models can and which set of bugs I'll hit on my >> access concentrators passing our v6 over PPPoE. I just read about a >> cisco bug where enabling rp-filtering on v6 causes a router reload, >> which I would hit immediately since rp-filtering is a standard >> subscriber profile option here (trying to be a good netizen). How many >> other network destroying bugs await? The longer I wait on v6, the less >> work I will have to do dealing with bugs. So, as the original posted >> said, we'll do v6 when it's easy, when we have time, and when the >> economics make sense. > And is there a fix available yet? All code has bugs in it. They > exist in both the IPv4 code paths and the IPv6 code paths. There > are lots of places that are going IPv6 only internally and only > having IPv4 at the fringe. You can't do that if routers are flakey > when pushing IPv6 packets. This is basically just fear overriding > rational decisions. I am a provider and not a developer, and I am likely only going to use what I know works and what is within my sphere of control and influence. The flakey crappy state of v6 today means I am not putting it out anywhere a customer would have any exposure to it. I don't play games with my customers that way. From james at towardex.com Thu Oct 8 23:25:50 2015 From: james at towardex.com (James Jun) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 19:25:50 -0400 Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: <5616F212.8030706@tiedyenetworks.com> References: <20151004.164120.41639562.sthaug@nethelp.no> <18661688-294A-4662-8380-DF6C2C490E6F@beckman.org> <20151007140011.18E063A0FA32@rock.dv.isc.org> <56166C30.3070501@matthew.at> <561699F3.1070600@tiedyenetworks.com> <20151008214123.95C343A1BC03@rock.dv.isc.org> <5616F212.8030706@tiedyenetworks.com> Message-ID: <20151008232550.GA22470@mis10.towardex.com> On Thu, Oct 08, 2015 at 03:45:38PM -0700, Mike wrote: > > NO, THERE IS NOT. We operate in rural and underserved areas and WE DO > NOT HAVE realistic choices. Can you see me from your ivory tower? Who is your upstream provider? I think you're confused on how the IP transit industry works. If you want choices in your transit providers, you should get a transport circuit (dark, wave or EPL) to a nearby carrier hotel/data center. Once you do that, you will suddenly find that virtually almost everyone in the competitive IP transit market will provide you with dual-stacked IPv4/IPv6 service. If you are buying DIA circuit from some $isp to your rural location that you call "head-end" and are expecting to receive a competitive service, and support for IPv6, well, then your expectations are either unreasonable, ignorant or both. Best, James From larrysheldon at cox.net Thu Oct 8 23:32:02 2015 From: larrysheldon at cox.net (Larry Sheldon) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 18:32:02 -0500 Subject: Fw: important message In-Reply-To: <20151008215305.GC14945@Vurt.local> References: <000015aece11$3e052422$592bef07$@unixrealm.com> <20151008215305.GC14945@Vurt.local> Message-ID: <5616FCF2.6070606@cox.net> On 10/8/2015 16:53, Job Snijders wrote: > On Thu, Oct 08, 2015 at 02:37:15PM -0700, Scott Berkman via NANOG wrote: >> Hello! >> >> Important message, please read > > smells compromised, moderation flag has been enabled. don't click that > link, sorry. Every indication that it as you think, or worse. It it being propagated (by|to) NANOG and Outages (that I know of). It has been going on for some time. As is my habit, I have tried to get help in shutting it down, but as you might expect, there is zero interest at the administration level in the problem. Eventually some low-clue person will get burned bad and depending on how big the splash is some interest may arise. -- sed quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (Juvenal) From jason at thebaughers.com Fri Oct 9 00:21:05 2015 From: jason at thebaughers.com (Jason Baugher) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 19:21:05 -0500 Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: <20151008232550.GA22470@mis10.towardex.com> References: <20151004.164120.41639562.sthaug@nethelp.no> <18661688-294A-4662-8380-DF6C2C490E6F@beckman.org> <20151007140011.18E063A0FA32@rock.dv.isc.org> <56166C30.3070501@matthew.at> <561699F3.1070600@tiedyenetworks.com> <20151008214123.95C343A1BC03@rock.dv.isc.org> <5616F212.8030706@tiedyenetworks.com> <20151008232550.GA22470@mis10.towardex.com> Message-ID: This thread, while originally interesting and helpful, seems to have degraded to a contest to see who can be the most arrogant, condescending and insulting. Congrats. On Oct 8, 2015 6:25 PM, "James Jun" wrote: > On Thu, Oct 08, 2015 at 03:45:38PM -0700, Mike wrote: > > > > NO, THERE IS NOT. We operate in rural and underserved areas and WE DO > > NOT HAVE realistic choices. Can you see me from your ivory tower? > > Who is your upstream provider? > > I think you're confused on how the IP transit industry works. > > If you want choices in your transit providers, you should get a transport > circuit (dark, wave or EPL) to a nearby carrier hotel/data center. Once > you do that, you will suddenly find that virtually almost everyone in the > competitive IP transit market will provide you with dual-stacked IPv4/IPv6 > service. > > If you are buying DIA circuit from some $isp to your rural location that > you call "head-end" and are expecting to receive a competitive service, > and support for IPv6, well, then your expectations are either unreasonable, > ignorant or both. > > Best, > James > From jfbeam at gmail.com Fri Oct 9 00:50:23 2015 From: jfbeam at gmail.com (Ricky Beam) Date: Thu, 08 Oct 2015 20:50:23 -0400 Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: <5616F212.8030706@tiedyenetworks.com> References: <7E645C67-2F5C-4CA0-9C0E-1BA41AF24ABC@delong.com> <20151004.164120.41639562.sthaug@nethelp.no> <18661688-294A-4662-8380-DF6C2C490E6F@beckman.org> <20151007140011.18E063A0FA32@rock.dv.isc.org> <56166C30.3070501@matthew.at> <561699F3.1070600@tiedyenetworks.com> <20151008214123.95C343A1BC03@rock.dv.isc.org> <5616F212.8030706@tiedyenetworks.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 08 Oct 2015 18:45:38 -0400, Mike wrote: > WE DO NOT HAVE realistic choices. Or, apparently, realistic expectations. You, do, indeed, deserve public shaming for your complete lack of willingness to support IPv6. Your customers have no "realistic choices" either. How many other ISPs do they have to choice from? If you cannot be bothered to support IPv6, how are they supposed to? ("use a tunnel broker" is the *WRONG* answer) You are an ISP. You don't get to say "NO!" to IPv6. It is what the global internet is moving towards. You _WILL_ support it, or you will be left behind, and your customers who have little or no other options will suffer for it. https://youtu.be/g1GF4Gnb-D0 >> I can't remember the last time I saw a site stall due to reaching it >> over IPv6 it is that long ago. > > It happens every day for me, which only amplifies my perception that v6 > IS NOT READY FOR PRIME TIME. This is just *your* flawed perception. Have you bothered to be an engineer and figure out _WHY_ it doesn't work? Or do you like keeping your head in the sand mumbling "it's not my job"? >>> Thirdly, some parts of my network are >>> wireless, and multicast ... > Based on observation and experience, I think v6 will wipe out the 802.11 If you are providing customer access via 802.11 technology, then yes, you do have a serious problem. But it's a problem you already have with v4 as well... or do you block _ALL_ broadcast traffic from your 802.11 network? Have you checked those networks, because I'm pretty sure there's multicast on them already. (windows and mac generate multicast by default) My experience shows multicast is a problem for 99% of WiFi gear. It's handled like all other broadcast and sent at "basic rate" to all stations, which is going to be slow as crap. However, IPv6 ND (and RAs) do not amount to a volume that will, under normal conditions, kill a WiFi network. I run IPv6 over my 802.11a/b/g/n networks; no one has even noticed! (even with Truly Ancient Hardware(tm)) --Ricky From symack at gmail.com Fri Oct 9 01:05:34 2015 From: symack at gmail.com (symack) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 21:05:34 -0400 Subject: Fw: important message In-Reply-To: <5616FCF2.6070606@cox.net> References: <000015aece11$3e052422$592bef07$@unixrealm.com> <20151008215305.GC14945@Vurt.local> <5616FCF2.6070606@cox.net> Message-ID: It's a php script. How bad can it be???? ;)? From tknchris at gmail.com Fri Oct 9 01:10:40 2015 From: tknchris at gmail.com (chris) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 21:10:40 -0400 Subject: Fw: important message In-Reply-To: References: <000015aece11$3e052422$592bef07$@unixrealm.com> <20151008215305.GC14945@Vurt.local> <5616FCF2.6070606@cox.net> Message-ID: About the same danger as virus.doc.exe :) On Oct 8, 2015 9:09 PM, "symack" wrote: > It's a php script. How bad can it be???? ;)? > From rob at invaluement.com Fri Oct 9 01:41:13 2015 From: rob at invaluement.com (Rob McEwen) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 21:41:13 -0400 Subject: Fw: important message In-Reply-To: References: <000015aece11$3e052422$592bef07$@unixrealm.com> <20151008215305.GC14945@Vurt.local> <5616FCF2.6070606@cox.net> Message-ID: <56171B39.5080103@invaluement.com> A lot of web sites have been infected by criminal spammers in the past couple of years. More recently, massive amounts of legitimate web sites run by non-spammers which used older versions of WordPress (in particular)... have had their web sites hacked into by criminal spammers. The WordPress exploit is epidemic. Since most of these sites are legitimate, they are difficult to blacklist because blacklisting them does cause some amount of collateral damage (though usually a very acceptable and targeted amount of collateral damage--given the circumstances). The problem here is that the SAME algorithms which help the better domain-based anti-spam blacklists to NOT have false positives--OFTEN--also prevent THESE sites from getting blacklisted--even when the infection is active. Those are arguably False Negatives, especially in the more extreme cases when much spam is spewing, with relatively little legit mail containing these domains! Plus, feeling sorry for the site owner's "collateral damage" is like thinking that it is unfair that someone with a highly contagious disease, who got it from irresponsible behavior (dirty needle, etc), wasn't allowed allowed to walk in a crowded public area. When a web site is hosting such malicious content, the web site owner SHOULD lose some privileges until such time that they've cleaned up their mess. Because of this situation, some changes were made to the invaluementURI domain blacklist (ivmURI) about 1 or 2 years ago... to enable it to better surgically target THESE types of exploited domains, yet with a reasonable balance that (hopefully) wouldn't trigger too many FPs. So far, that has been highly successful and I see evidence that other such lists (surbl, uribl, and SpamHaus's DBL list) have made some improvements in this area too. For example, ivmURI had THIS particular domain blacklisted for over a week now (with nobody else listing it!)... and I seem to recall two such messages slipping through just weeks ago ago where the domain in one was only on SpamHaus' DBL list, and the other was only listed on ivmURI. (or was that the SA list where I saw those 2 messages?) even as I type this, ivmURI seems to be the only blacklist which has "globalreagents DOT com" blacklisted, fwiw -- Rob McEwen From jlewis at lewis.org Fri Oct 9 01:58:35 2015 From: jlewis at lewis.org (Jon Lewis) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 21:58:35 -0400 (EDT) Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: <20151008214123.95C343A1BC03@rock.dv.isc.org> References: <7E645C67-2F5C-4CA0-9C0E-1BA41AF24ABC@delong.com> <20151004.164120.41639562.sthaug@nethelp.no> <18661688-294A-4662-8380-DF6C2C490E6F@beckman.org> <20151007140011.18E063A0FA32@rock.dv.isc.org> <56166C30.3070501@matthew.at> <561699F3.1070600@tiedyenetworks.com> <20151008214123.95C343A1BC03@rock.dv.isc.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 9 Oct 2015, Mark Andrews wrote: >> Plus one to that. We are such a provider, and IPv6 is on my list of >> things to implement, but the barriers are still plenty high. Firstly, I >> do have an Ipv6 assignmnt and bgp (v4) and an asn, but until I can get >> IPv6 transit, > > There are lots of transit providers that provide IPv6. It really is > time to name and shame transit providers that don't provide IPv6. Unless he's buying from Bob's Bait, Tackle, and Internet (who's reselling service off his Brighthouse cable modem connection), I find it hard to believe there are "transit providers" in the NANOG region who still cannot provide dual-stack addressing and BGP for DIA. >> there is not much point in my putting a lot of effort into >> enabling IPv6 for my subscribers. Yes I have a HE tunnel and yes it's With some OS's (Apple) preferring v6 if it's there, it would actually be a bad idea to enable IPv6 for your subscribers before you have stable/reliable v6 connectivity hooked up for the network. >> address space. Second, on the group of servers that have v6 thru the HE >> tunnel, I still run into problems all the time where some operations >> over v6 simply fail inexplictly, requireing me to turn off v6 on that >> host so whatever it is I'm doing can proceed over v4. v6 routing doesn't always get the same level of scrutiny as v4. i.e. Suboptimal v6 paths might get used for some time before someone with enough clue to notice speaks up. Presumably, that will change as v6 adoption gets more widespread. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Jon Lewis, MCP :) | I route | therefore you are _________ http://www.lewis.org/~jlewis/pgp for PGP public key_________ From list at satchell.net Fri Oct 9 02:11:03 2015 From: list at satchell.net (Stephen Satchell) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 19:11:03 -0700 Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: References: <7E645C67-2F5C-4CA0-9C0E-1BA41AF24ABC@delong.com> <20151004.164120.41639562.sthaug@nethelp.no> <18661688-294A-4662-8380-DF6C2C490E6F@beckman.org> <20151007140011.18E063A0FA32@rock.dv.isc.org> <56166C30.3070501@matthew.at> <561699F3.1070600@tiedyenetworks.com> <20151008214123.95C343A1BC03@rock.dv.isc.org> <5616F212.8030706@tiedyenetworks.com> Message-ID: <56172237.5030501@satchell.net> On 10/08/2015 05:50 PM, Ricky Beam wrote: > You are an ISP. You don't get to say "NO!" to IPv6. It is what the > global internet is moving towards. You _WILL_ support it, or you will be > left behind, and your customers who have little or no other options will > suffer for it. ISP == "Internet Service Provider". The key word here is "service". tiedyenetworks.com is a provider of services to customers, and I suspect those are retail customers. What he just told you is that the service he provides, in his experience, does not play well with IPv6 AS CURRENTLY IMPLEMENTED IN AVAILABLE EQUIPMENT. On the one hand, IPv6 is "the future" (I just invested a fair amount of cred to get the books recommended to me here on NANOG to get up to speed) but like early versions of just about every thing and every product, there are still a few potholes. tiedyenetworks.com, from my reading of this thread, has elected to limit his service offerings to his customers that he can reasonably support. That's good, solid business sense. Nothing is worse than providing a product that does not work as expected or advertised. VW, anyone? > (windows and mac generate multicast by default) And unless there is a damn good need for that multicast traffic, it gets blocked. From my edge network, I block multicasts and broadcasts both inbound and outbound. When I was network admin for the web hosting company I worked for, I also blocked a number of ports at my edge, ports that had no business being used in the general case. I had *one* customer that needed to come in using 3309; I punched a hole in the ACLs for that one customer, and damn carefully. > This is just *your* flawed perception. Have you bothered to be an > engineer and figure out _WHY_ it doesn't work? Maybe you missed his earlier declaration: "I'm a provider, not a developer." He expects the equipment to work. It doesn't. Did he ask his vendor? I don't know, but my personal experience with wireless-equipment vendors is not encouraging. Some people don't have the money, resources, or time to winkle out all the wrinkles, so they go with what works in their situation. Consider the rural market: damn few customers, so $150K engineers are out of the question. > I run IPv6 over my 802.11a/b/g/n networks; no one has even noticed! > (even with Truly Ancient Hardware(tm)) That's your experience. He has a different experience. I suspect your customer base is considerably more dense than tiedyenetwork.com's base. Did you say you are primarily a rural provider? Mike did. Your earlier traffic suggests your base of operations is more in a city or suburban environment. Apples and oranges, if true. From marka at isc.org Fri Oct 9 02:57:28 2015 From: marka at isc.org (Mark Andrews) Date: Fri, 09 Oct 2015 13:57:28 +1100 Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 08 Oct 2015 19:11:03 -0700." <56172237.5030501@satchell.net> References: <7E645C67-2F5C-4CA0-9C0E-1BA41AF24ABC@delong.com> <20151004.164120.41639562.sthaug@nethelp.no> <18661688-294A-4662-8380-DF6C2C490E6F@beckman.org> <20151007140011.18E063A0FA32@rock.dv.isc.org> <56166C30.3070501@matthew.at> <561699F3.1070600@tiedyenetworks.com> <20151008214123.95C343A1BC03@rock.dv.isc.org> <5616F212.8030706@tiedyenetworks.com> <56172237.5030501@satchell.net> Message-ID: <20151009025728.6A2EF3A202BB@rock.dv.isc.org> In message <56172237.5030501 at satchell.net>, Stephen Satchell writes: > On 10/08/2015 05:50 PM, Ricky Beam wrote: > > You are an ISP. You don't get to say "NO!" to IPv6. It is what the > > global internet is moving towards. You _WILL_ support it, or you will be > > left behind, and your customers who have little or no other options will > > suffer for it. > > ISP == "Internet Service Provider". The key word here is "service". > tiedyenetworks.com is a provider of services to customers, and I suspect > those are retail customers. What he just told you is that the service > he provides, in his experience, does not play well with IPv6 AS > CURRENTLY IMPLEMENTED IN AVAILABLE EQUIPMENT. On the one hand, IPv6 is > "the future" (I just invested a fair amount of cred to get the books > recommended to me here on NANOG to get up to speed) but like early > versions of just about every thing and every product, there are still a > few potholes. > > tiedyenetworks.com, from my reading of this thread, has elected to limit > his service offerings to his customers that he can reasonably support. > That's good, solid business sense. Nothing is worse than providing a > product that does not work as expected or advertised. VW, anyone? > > > (windows and mac generate multicast by default) > > And unless there is a damn good need for that multicast traffic, it gets > blocked. From my edge network, I block multicasts and broadcasts both > inbound and outbound. When I was network admin for the web hosting > company I worked for, I also blocked a number of ports at my edge, ports > that had no business being used in the general case. I had *one* > customer that needed to come in using 3309; I punched a hole in the ACLs > for that one customer, and damn carefully. > > > This is just *your* flawed perception. Have you bothered to be an > > engineer and figure out _WHY_ it doesn't work? > > Maybe you missed his earlier declaration: "I'm a provider, not a > developer." He expects the equipment to work. It doesn't. Did he ask > his vendor? I don't know, but my personal experience with > wireless-equipment vendors is not encouraging. Some people don't have > the money, resources, or time to winkle out all the wrinkles, so they go > with what works in their situation. Consider the rural market: damn > few customers, so $150K engineers are out of the question. I also saw that he was using a tunnel yet was unwilling to configure the local network to account for this when testing yet was willing to bag IPv6 due to the side effects of being behind a tunnel. IPv4 also works poorly when you introduce a tunnel and the people you connect to are idiots that block / don't handle PTB messages. Do like for like testing before bagging the protocol. 20% of the US eyeballs have working native IPv6 without lots of complaints. If you are have problems over a tunnel and they aren't you may want to re-evalute your opinion of IPv6 and look to getting native connections. IPv6 really does work as well as IPv4 give like for like connections. Mark > > I run IPv6 over my 802.11a/b/g/n networks; no one has even noticed! > > (even with Truly Ancient Hardware(tm)) > > That's your experience. He has a different experience. I suspect your > customer base is considerably more dense than tiedyenetwork.com's base. > Did you say you are primarily a rural provider? Mike did. Your > earlier traffic suggests your base of operations is more in a city or > suburban environment. Apples and oranges, if true. -- Mark Andrews, ISC 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: marka at isc.org From owen at delong.com Fri Oct 9 02:58:59 2015 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 19:58:59 -0700 Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: <5616F212.8030706@tiedyenetworks.com> References: <7E645C67-2F5C-4CA0-9C0E-1BA41AF24ABC@delong.com> <20151004.164120.41639562.sthaug@nethelp.no> <18661688-294A-4662-8380-DF6C2C490E6F@beckman.org> <20151007140011.18E063A0FA32@rock.dv.isc.org> <56166C30.3070501@matthew.at> <561699F3.1070600@tiedyenetworks.com> <20151008214123.95C343A1BC03@rock.dv.isc.org> <5616F212.8030706@tiedyenetworks.com> Message-ID: > On Oct 8, 2015, at 3:45 PM, Mike wrote: > > > > On 10/08/2015 02:41 PM, Mark Andrews wrote: >> >> >> Plus one to that. We are such a provider, and IPv6 is on my list of >> things to implement, but the barriers are still plenty high. Firstly, I >> do have an Ipv6 assignmnt and bgp (v4) and an asn, but until I can get >> IPv6 transit, >> >> There are lots of transit providers that provide IPv6. It really is >> time to name and shame transit providers that don't provide IPv6. > > NO, THERE IS NOT. We operate in rural and underserved areas and WE DO NOT HAVE realistic choices. Can you see me from your ivory tower? Um? There ARE LOTS of transit providers that provide IPv6. It may be true that none of them serve your locality or overlap locations where you have presence, but that does not mean that they do not exist. > >>> there is not much point in my putting a lot of effort into >>> enabling IPv6 for my subscribers. Yes I have a HE tunnel and yes it's >>> working, but it's not the same as running native v6 and with my own >>> address space. Second, on the group of servers that have v6 thru the HE >>> tunnel, I still run into problems all the time where some operations >>> over v6 simply fail inexplictly, requireing me to turn off v6 on that >>> host so whatever it is I'm doing can proceed over v4. >>> Stuff like OS updates for example. >> Then complain to the OS vendor. It is most probably someone breaking >> PMTU discover by filtering PTB. Going native will hide these >> problems until the MTU between the DC and the rest of the net >> increases. You could also just lower the advertised MTU internally >> to match the tunnel MTU which would let you simulate better what a >> native experience would be. > Not my job. v4 works, v6 does not, end of story. Hmmm? Let?s see if you can still say that in a few years. >> I can't remember the last time I saw a site stall due to reaching it over IPv6 it is that long ago. > > It happens every day for me, which only amplifies my perception that v6 IS NOT READY FOR PRIME TIME. Yet you refuse to troubleshoot your issues with it that are not shared by others and blame the protocol for whatever is probably wrong with your own network. Interesting tactic. Best of luck with that as your network gradually becomes an IPv4 island no longer connected to the majority of the internet. Owen From jhaustin at gmail.com Fri Oct 9 03:24:41 2015 From: jhaustin at gmail.com (Jeremy Austin) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 19:24:41 -0800 Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: <20151008232550.GA22470@mis10.towardex.com> References: <20151004.164120.41639562.sthaug@nethelp.no> <18661688-294A-4662-8380-DF6C2C490E6F@beckman.org> <20151007140011.18E063A0FA32@rock.dv.isc.org> <56166C30.3070501@matthew.at> <561699F3.1070600@tiedyenetworks.com> <20151008214123.95C343A1BC03@rock.dv.isc.org> <5616F212.8030706@tiedyenetworks.com> <20151008232550.GA22470@mis10.towardex.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 3:25 PM, James Jun wrote: > > If you want choices in your transit providers, you should get a transport > circuit (dark, wave or EPL) to a nearby carrier hotel/data center. Once > you do that, you will suddenly find that virtually almost everyone in the > competitive IP transit market will provide you with dual-stacked IPv4/IPv6 > service. > The future is here, but it isn't evenly distributed yet. I'm in North America, but there are no IXPs in my *state*, let alone in my *continent* -- from an undersea fiber perspective. There is no truly competitive IP transit market within Alaska that I am aware of. Would love to be proved wrong. Heck, GCI and ACS (the two providers with such fiber) only directly peered a handful of years ago. > If you are buying DIA circuit from some $isp to your rural location that > you call "head-end" and are expecting to receive a competitive service, > and support for IPv6, well, then your expectations are either unreasonable, > ignorant or both. > Interestingly both statewide providers *do* provide both IPv4 and IPv6 peering. The trick is to find a spot where there's true price competition. The 3 largest statewide ISPs have fiber that meets a mere three city blocks from one of my POPs, but there's no allowable IX. I'm looking at you, AT&T. -- Jeremy Austin Whitestone Power & Communications, Alaska From srihari at cse.sc.edu Fri Oct 9 05:41:30 2015 From: srihari at cse.sc.edu (Srihari Nelakuditi) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 01:41:30 -0400 Subject: Call for Participation in IEEE ICNP 2015 Message-ID: <5617538A.1000406@cse.sc.edu> Call for Participation in IEEE ICNP 2015 *** Group Rate Cutoff Date for Hotel: Oct 20 *** http://icnp15.cs.ucr.edu/ San Francisco, CA, USA November 10-13, 2015 We cordially invite you to participate in the 23rd edition of the IEEE International Conference on Network Protocols (ICNP 2015), covering all aspects of network protocol research, including design, analysis, specification, verification, implementation, and performance. ICNP'15 will start off with a keynote lecture on "How Virtualization is Changing Networking" by Bruce Davie, CTO, Networking at VMWARE. The program consists of 3 days of single track sessions of 38 full paper presentations as well as a PhD Forum. Associated with ICNP'15 are two workshops, COntrol, Operation, and appLication in SDN Protocols (CoolSDN) and GENI Network Innovators Community Event (NICE). GENI NICE is a premier event for researchers and educators to demonstrate, present research results and discuss works in progress related to the NSF GENI testbed. Note that the registration for GENI NICE is free. Further details on the conference are available at http://icnp15.cs.ucr.edu/ We are looking forward to seeing you in San Francisco, USA. The ICNP'15 Organization Committee From xxnog at ledeuns.net Fri Oct 9 06:52:47 2015 From: xxnog at ledeuns.net (Denis Fondras) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 08:52:47 +0200 Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: References: <20151004.164120.41639562.sthaug@nethelp.no> <18661688-294A-4662-8380-DF6C2C490E6F@beckman.org> <20151007140011.18E063A0FA32@rock.dv.isc.org> <56166C30.3070501@matthew.at> <561699F3.1070600@tiedyenetworks.com> <20151008214123.95C343A1BC03@rock.dv.isc.org> Message-ID: <20151009065246.GA1503@belenos> > >>Plus one to that. We are such a provider, and IPv6 is on my list of > >>things to implement, but the barriers are still plenty high. Firstly, I > >>do have an Ipv6 assignmnt and bgp (v4) and an asn, but until I can get > >>IPv6 transit, > > > >There are lots of transit providers that provide IPv6. It really is > >time to name and shame transit providers that don't provide IPv6. > > Unless he's buying from Bob's Bait, Tackle, and Internet (who's reselling > service off his Brighthouse cable modem connection), I find it hard to > believe there are "transit providers" in the NANOG region who still cannot > provide dual-stack addressing and BGP for DIA. > Speaking of HE, they can provide IPv6 transit (for some definition of transit) to anyone with an ASN for almost free. From dave.taht at gmail.com Fri Oct 9 11:03:26 2015 From: dave.taht at gmail.com (Dave Taht) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 04:03:26 -0700 Subject: Last call for signatures to the FCC on the wifi lockdown issue Message-ID: The CeroWrt project's letter to the FCC on how to better manage the software on wifi and home routers vs some proposed regulations is now in last call for signatures. The final draft of the FCC submittal is here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/15QhugvMlIOjH7iCxFdqJFhhwT6_nmYT2j8xAscCImX0/edit?usp=sharing The principal signers (Dave Taht and Vint Cerf), are joined by many network researchers, open source developers, and dozens of developers of aftermarket firmware projects like OpenWrt. Prominent signers currently include: Jonathan Corbet, David P. Reed, Dan Geer, Jim Gettys, Phil Karn, Felix Fietkau, Corinna "Elektra" Aichele, Randell Jesup, Eric S. Raymond, Andreas Petlund, Sascha Meinrath, Joe Touch, Dave Farber, Nick Feamster, Paul Vixie, Bob Frankston, Eric Schultz, Brahm Cohen, Jeff Osborn, Harald Alvestrand, and James Woodyatt. If you would like to join our call for substituting sane software engineering practices over misguided regulations, the window for adding your signature to the letter closes at 11:59AM ET, today, Friday, 2015-10-08. Sign via webform here: http://goo.gl/forms/WCF7kPcFl9 We are at approximately 170 signatures as I write. For more details on the controversy we are attempting to address, or to submit your own filing to the FCC see: https://libreplanet.org/wiki/Save_WiFi https://www.dearfcc.org/ Sincerely, -- Dave T?ht CeroWrt Project Architect Tel: +46547001161 From nanog at ics-il.net Fri Oct 9 11:09:18 2015 From: nanog at ics-il.net (Mike Hammett) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 06:09:18 -0500 (CDT) Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1310424022.11044.1444388990518.JavaMail.mhammett@ThunderFuck> Agreed. Often times people forget that budgets aren't unlimited and not everyone is in One Wilshire, 350 Cermak or 60 Hudson. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jason Baugher" To: "James Jun" Cc: "NANOG" Sent: Thursday, October 8, 2015 7:21:05 PM Subject: Re: /27 the new /24 This thread, while originally interesting and helpful, seems to have degraded to a contest to see who can be the most arrogant, condescending and insulting. Congrats. On Oct 8, 2015 6:25 PM, "James Jun" wrote: > On Thu, Oct 08, 2015 at 03:45:38PM -0700, Mike wrote: > > > > NO, THERE IS NOT. We operate in rural and underserved areas and WE DO > > NOT HAVE realistic choices. Can you see me from your ivory tower? > > Who is your upstream provider? > > I think you're confused on how the IP transit industry works. > > If you want choices in your transit providers, you should get a transport > circuit (dark, wave or EPL) to a nearby carrier hotel/data center. Once > you do that, you will suddenly find that virtually almost everyone in the > competitive IP transit market will provide you with dual-stacked IPv4/IPv6 > service. > > If you are buying DIA circuit from some $isp to your rural location that > you call "head-end" and are expecting to receive a competitive service, > and support for IPv6, well, then your expectations are either unreasonable, > ignorant or both. > > Best, > James > From jerome at ceriz.fr Fri Oct 9 12:10:31 2015 From: jerome at ceriz.fr (=?UTF-8?Q?J=c3=a9r=c3=b4me_Nicolle?=) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 14:10:31 +0200 Subject: AW: AW: AW: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: <20151005044527.GA66963@mis10.towardex.com> References: <1706169196.3513.1443877918905.JavaMail.mhammett@ThunderFuck> <20151005044527.GA66963@mis10.towardex.com> Message-ID: <5617AEB7.8090901@ceriz.fr> Hello James, Le 05/10/2015 06:45, James Jun a ?crit : > I'm not aware of any carrier-grade network that operates on these things. With the availability of a 80Gbps model and upcoming updates to the routing process (in RouterOS 7), chances are these boxes will drag much more attention in the next 2-3 years. Still, it looks like their products are widely used in developping countries where cheap hardware and flexible / low power requirements (you'd run a CCR1009 off a car battery for a solid 2 weeks - no regulator needed) makes them the only viable choice. I know of at least a dozen ISP running these as well, here in western Europe. It solved many space and power issues in dense carrier hotels, and is a cheap and efficient way out of a 6500/7600 (in sub 20Gbps scenarios) based network. I wouldn't sell transit or provide criticial services with a mikrotik-based network just yet, mostly for the lack of enough personnal confidence and experience with them, but havin endured nights of debugging with poor quality code in recent major player's routers, I doubt they're as misfits as you suggest. Best regards, -- J?r?me Nicolle From Lee at asgard.org Fri Oct 9 12:22:55 2015 From: Lee at asgard.org (Lee Howard) Date: Fri, 09 Oct 2015 08:22:55 -0400 Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: <5616F212.8030706@tiedyenetworks.com> References: <7E645C67-2F5C-4CA0-9C0E-1BA41AF24ABC@delong.com> <20151004.164120.41639562.sthaug@nethelp.no> <18661688-294A-4662-8380-DF6C2C490E6F@beckman.org> <20151007140011.18E063A0FA32@rock.dv.isc.org> <56166C30.3070501@matthew.at> <561699F3.1070600@tiedyenetworks.com> <20151008214123.95C343A1BC03@rock.dv.isc.org> <5616F212.8030706@tiedyenetworks.com> Message-ID: On 10/8/15, 6:45 PM, "NANOG on behalf of Mike" wrote: > > >On 10/08/2015 02:41 PM, Mark Andrews wrote: >> >> >> Plus one to that. We are such a provider, and IPv6 is on my list of >> things to implement, but the barriers are still plenty high. Firstly, I >> do have an Ipv6 assignmnt and bgp (v4) and an asn, but until I can get >> IPv6 transit, >> >> There are lots of transit providers that provide IPv6. It really is >> time to name and shame transit providers that don't provide IPv6. > >NO, THERE IS NOT. We operate in rural and underserved areas and WE DO >NOT HAVE realistic choices. Can you see me from your ivory tower? I looked up tiedyenetworks.com, and I think he?s 100 miles from Sacramento. I hope some sales person from a transit provider is giving him a call right now, but it?s entirely possible that there are no big providers in his neighborhood. Sorry, Mike, wish I could help you there. However, you can still mock your upstreams here. Then we can offer them help to support IPv6. > >>> there is not much point in my putting a lot of effort into >>> enabling IPv6 for my subscribers. Yes I have a HE tunnel and yes it's >>> working, but it's not the same as running native v6 and with my own >>> address space. Second, on the group of servers that have v6 thru the HE >>> tunnel, I still run into problems all the time where some operations >>> over v6 simply fail inexplictly, requireing me to turn off v6 on that >>> host so whatever it is I'm doing can proceed over v4. >>> Stuff like OS updates for example. >> Then complain to the OS vendor. It is most probably someone breaking >> PMTU discover by filtering PTB. Going native will hide these >> problems until the MTU between the DC and the rest of the net >> increases. You could also just lower the advertised MTU internally >> to match the tunnel MTU which would let you simulate better what a >> native experience would be. >Not my job. v4 works, v6 does not, end of story. It sounds like you do have some concern about the transition, and you know there?s a bug, at least with OS downloads. Please do report those issues you know about. Usually, Happy Eyeballs masks problems in dual stack, whether that?s good or bad. If we can get your upstream(s) to support IPv6, then maybe we can leverage them to help troubleshoot MTU problems, so you don?t have to spend a lot of time on them. Or maybe they go away when you?re no longer tunnelling. > >> >> I can't remember the last time I saw a site stall due to reaching it >> over IPv6 it is that long ago. > >It happens every day for me, which only amplifies my perception that v6 >IS NOT READY FOR PRIME TIME. Would you at least keep a list of places you have these problems, even if you never follow up on it? Again, I?m wondering if tunnelling is the problem, and once you have native dual-stack, you could refer to the list and see if problems just dry up. > >>> Damm maddening. Can't imagine the screaming I'll >>> hear if a home user ever ran into similar so I am quite gun shy about >>> the prospect. Secondly, the the dodgy nature of the CPE connected to >>>our >>> network and the terminally buggy fw they all run is sure to be a never >>> ending source of stupidity. >> CPE devices are buggy for IPv4 as well. Bugs in CPE devices are >> only found and fixed if the code paths are exercised. > >Not my job. v4 works, v6 does not. I am a provider not a developer. I would guess it is your job in IPv4. I would also guess, based on gateways I?ve seen, than 10% of CPE has critical IPv4 bugs, and 25% of CPE has critical Ipv6 bugs. I agree with you that the difference is too high, and maybe waiting a year helps get those ratios aligned. CPE vendors: step it up! >> That said IPv6 worked fine for me with the shipped image (old version >> of OpenWRT) using 6to4 before I reflashed it to a modern version >> of OpenWRT as I wanted to use the HE tunnel rather than 6to4. I >> know that is only one CPE device. > And will you be providing all of my end users with replacement CPE >that meets all of the other requirements too? No? Because no such >devices exist yet? OHHH yeah thats right, I'm a provider not a >developer, so again, not a solution for my business. Ugh, 6to4 is a bad idea anyway. Deprecated, even. There are loads of gateways that support native dual-stack and several transition mechanisms (DS-lite, 6rd, and MAP pretty soon), but native dual-stack is the way to go if you possibly can. If you provide gateways as part of your service, you should at least make sure you?re providing devices that at least *claim* IPv6 support now (and the IPv6 CPE Ready logo is meaningful here), so that as old equipment ages out, you?re not stuck replacing newer boxes. Figure out how long until you think you really need all of your customers to have IPv6. Subtract your CPE replacement time. Start replacing CPE then. e.g., if users need IPv6 in 2018, and you replace all CPE on a 5 year schedule, you should begin providing IPv6-capable CPE in 2013. > >>> Thirdly, some parts of my network are >>> wireless, and multicast is a huge, huge problem on wireless (the 802.11 >>> varities anyways). The forwarding rates for multicast are sickeningly >>> low for many brand of gear - yes, it's at the bottom of the barrel no >>> matter how good or hot your signal is - and I honestly expect v6 to >>> experience enough disruption over wireless as to render it unusable for >>> exactly this reason alone. >> You expect but haven't tested. > >Based on observation and experience, I think v6 will wipe out the 802.11 >portion of my network and no, Im not going to 'test' it, recovery would >be near impossible and in any event I don't experiment with paying >customers. I won't move until the underlaying issues are resolved, and >that means fixing multicast in wireless, which won't be done by me again >because, you guessed it, I am a provider and not a developer. This might help: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-v6ops-reducing-ra-energy-consumption -02 Cisco has done some presentations on their use of IPv6 over WiFi at Cisco Live and other venues. For instance, http://www.rmv6tf.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/5-2013-04-17-RMv6TF-kreddy -02.pdf Might be able to mitigate with configuration. >>> The wired portion of my subscriber network is only slightly better, im >>> pretty sure it can deal with v6 in the middle, but the question is >>>still >>> wether specfic CPE models can and which set of bugs I'll hit on my >>> access concentrators passing our v6 over PPPoE. I just read about a >>> cisco bug where enabling rp-filtering on v6 causes a router reload, >>> which I would hit immediately since rp-filtering is a standard >>> subscriber profile option here (trying to be a good netizen). How many >>> other network destroying bugs await? The longer I wait on v6, the less >>> work I will have to do dealing with bugs. So, as the original posted >>> said, we'll do v6 when it's easy, when we have time, and when the >>> economics make sense. >> And is there a fix available yet? All code has bugs in it. They >> exist in both the IPv4 code paths and the IPv6 code paths. There >> are lots of places that are going IPv6 only internally and only >> having IPv4 at the fringe. You can't do that if routers are flakey >> when pushing IPv6 packets. This is basically just fear overriding >> rational decisions. > >I am a provider and not a developer, and I am likely only going to use >what I know works and what is within my sphere of control and influence. >The flakey crappy state of v6 today means I am not putting it out >anywhere a customer would have any exposure to it. I don't play games >with my customers that way. It makes sense to me that you would want to wait another year. An ISP of your size doesn?t have the support staff to troubleshoot new problems. I do hope you?ll keep an eye on deployments, and at least be thinking in terms of deploying next year (e.g., by buying gear that at least claims IPv6 support, thinking about what monitoring you need to keep an eye on it as you deploy), so that when you do start, you have an easier time of it. Lee From jerome at ceriz.fr Fri Oct 9 12:33:57 2015 From: jerome at ceriz.fr (=?UTF-8?Q?J=c3=a9r=c3=b4me_Nicolle?=) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 14:33:57 +0200 Subject: Mikrotik in the DFZ (Was Re: AW: AW: /27 the new /24) In-Reply-To: <20151003.092349.2236946013734960508.wwaites@tardis.ed.ac.uk> References: <5280b516a2fc4179a92583c656455616@anx-i-dag02.anx.local> <1516233395.2818.1443814446880.JavaMail.mhammett@ThunderFuck> <133ff0fed3394045add071349c00fcef@anx-i-dag02.anx.local> <20151003.092349.2236946013734960508.wwaites@tardis.ed.ac.uk> Message-ID: <5617B435.3010705@ceriz.fr> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hello William, Le 03/10/2015 10:23, William Waites a ?crit : > I wish it were possible today to run different software on their > larger boxes. If some like-minded small providers wanted to get > together with us to fund a FreeBSD port to the CCR routers that > would be great. Please contact me off-list if you are interested in > this, I'll coordinate. One of my contacts has worked on a similar path, and we encountered many issues that makes it quite difficult. Here is what I gathered, while I never had no access to the NDA-covered material. The Tilera architecture and its SDK is a great way to start such project but Mikrotik didn't just use an off-the-shelf chip as recommended, they also made slight changes to how the network interfaces operates, and didn't provide any documentation. It's not as easy as swapping a driver and rebuild a kernel, more like changing how the programmable logic in Tilera's interface blocks dispatch frames among the core's interconnexion grid. Also, the cores are not fully compliant with MIPS specifications, aren't combined as an SMP assembly at all (rather a NUMA grid with added glue logic) and you can't even load the first instruction at 0x0 without using Tilera's own proprietary init code to allocate ressources, initialize cores and setup the multiple "containers" (kind of hardware virtualization). So it's not quite about porting an OS than it has to do with tight coupling of proprietary control code, bare-metal and FPGA logic, and a specific data-plane implementation. Still, the attempts have gone as far as booting a cutom linux kernel spanned among a single CPU instance made of all 36 cores, but it has no access to the network interfaces on the mikrotik board. It does, however, work flawlessly on Tilera's developpment boards and appliances, though neither the Linux kernel's data plane or DPDK-derived code are yet able to take advantage of the specificities of Tilera's architecture. Nevertheless, if you want do get deeper and have enough motivation to get past the technical difficulties, I'd gladly try to help into bringing an alternative OS to these box. Best regards, - -- J?r?me Nicolle -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2 Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iEYEARECAAYFAlYXtDUACgkQbt+nwQamihu3eACdFRkX/yXrEJHJHm9F7HD0ClV4 2ikAnjy6a7KRheMlKTfFRaccfuYQInfc =qRKm -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From nanog at ics-il.net Fri Oct 9 12:37:50 2015 From: nanog at ics-il.net (Mike Hammett) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 07:37:50 -0500 (CDT) Subject: AW: AW: AW: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: <5617AEB7.8090901@ceriz.fr> Message-ID: <1023728699.11120.1444394356817.JavaMail.mhammett@ThunderFuck> I know of literally hundreds of ISPs using them in the US and I'm sure that number is in the thousands. After hearing complaints from larger networks of their larger gear... it's the same shit everyone else deals with. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "J?r?me Nicolle" To: nanog at nanog.org Sent: Friday, October 9, 2015 7:10:31 AM Subject: Re: AW: AW: AW: /27 the new /24 Hello James, Le 05/10/2015 06:45, James Jun a ?crit : > I'm not aware of any carrier-grade network that operates on these things. With the availability of a 80Gbps model and upcoming updates to the routing process (in RouterOS 7), chances are these boxes will drag much more attention in the next 2-3 years. Still, it looks like their products are widely used in developping countries where cheap hardware and flexible / low power requirements (you'd run a CCR1009 off a car battery for a solid 2 weeks - no regulator needed) makes them the only viable choice. I know of at least a dozen ISP running these as well, here in western Europe. It solved many space and power issues in dense carrier hotels, and is a cheap and efficient way out of a 6500/7600 (in sub 20Gbps scenarios) based network. I wouldn't sell transit or provide criticial services with a mikrotik-based network just yet, mostly for the lack of enough personnal confidence and experience with them, but havin endured nights of debugging with poor quality code in recent major player's routers, I doubt they're as misfits as you suggest. Best regards, -- J?r?me Nicolle From list at satchell.net Fri Oct 9 13:16:18 2015 From: list at satchell.net (Stephen Satchell) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 06:16:18 -0700 Subject: The continuing IPv6 discussion (was: /27 the new /24) In-Reply-To: <1310424022.11044.1444388990518.JavaMail.mhammett@ThunderFuck> References: <1310424022.11044.1444388990518.JavaMail.mhammett@ThunderFuck> Message-ID: <5617BE22.8010406@satchell.net> I have been reviewing the proposed submission to the FCC ET Docket No. 15-170, regarding the requirement that vendors of wireless equipment "lock down" updates, and find this quote in that submission particularly apropos to the ongoing IPv6-on-wireless discussion: "Most Wi-Fi routers, even the newest ones, do not or only barely support IPv6, with poor implementations of IPv6 leading to problems with interoperability" Quoting this thread, they are, in their submission! Does it make the assertion that "existing CPE isn't ready for prime time" accurate? That's still open for debate. What is "settled science" is that, after 17 years, we are still learning just how to deal with IPv6's quirks and foibles, just as the community did with IPv4 in the last quarter of the previous century (and continuing into this one). After 17 years, the community at large has a huge hurdle educating the vendors, the providers, and the consumers to the point that everyone (not just a few geeks) has a satisfactory comfort level with the new protocol. The heat and flame in this thread shows the range of comfort levels. Most of the conflict exposed in this thread concerns the differences in views by providers of general transit, versus providers of "last mile" and enterprise connectivity. The positions taken by the two camps are equally valid FOR THEIR MARKETS. As one of the participants in the latter market category, I have learned a great deal about IPv6. Moreover, I have been given pointers by people in this forum to sources of additional information, particularly sources that are more up to date. Amazon will be delivering a big box around the 17th. As for my own network, I have discovered that my upstream, Charter Communications, has put together some support pages for their deployment of IPv6. Once I have the appropriate firewall in place to mirror my IPv4 firewall I can start getting dual-stack IPv4/IPv6 up and going. From mike-nanog at tiedyenetworks.com Fri Oct 9 14:22:48 2015 From: mike-nanog at tiedyenetworks.com (Mike) Date: Fri, 09 Oct 2015 07:22:48 -0700 Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: References: <7E645C67-2F5C-4CA0-9C0E-1BA41AF24ABC@delong.com> <20151004.164120.41639562.sthaug@nethelp.no> <18661688-294A-4662-8380-DF6C2C490E6F@beckman.org> <20151007140011.18E063A0FA32@rock.dv.isc.org> <56166C30.3070501@matthew.at> <561699F3.1070600@tiedyenetworks.com> <20151008214123.95C343A1BC03@rock.dv.isc.org> <5616F212.8030706@tiedyenetworks.com> Message-ID: <5617CDB8.6010201@tiedyenetworks.com> On 10/08/2015 07:58 PM, Owen DeLong wrote: > > I can't remember the last time I saw a site stall due to reaching it over IPv6 it is that long ago. >> It happens every day for me, which only amplifies my perception that v6 IS NOT READY FOR PRIME TIME. > Yet you refuse to troubleshoot your issues with it that are not shared by others and blame the protocol for whatever is probably wrong with your own network. Interesting tactic. Thats invalid. It matters not that you claim these isses are not 'shared by others' - they are experienced routinely by others, and it's growing worse as more 'services' are transitioned to 'v6' but then the attendant support such as monitoring and operational knowledge/experience hasn't caught up and those transitioned services fail on v6 silently for long periods of time. That is the majority of the v6 world today and it's useless to claim otherwise. Mike- From morrowc.lists at gmail.com Fri Oct 9 15:18:44 2015 From: morrowc.lists at gmail.com (Christopher Morrow) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 11:18:44 -0400 Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: <5617CDB8.6010201@tiedyenetworks.com> References: <7E645C67-2F5C-4CA0-9C0E-1BA41AF24ABC@delong.com> <20151004.164120.41639562.sthaug@nethelp.no> <18661688-294A-4662-8380-DF6C2C490E6F@beckman.org> <20151007140011.18E063A0FA32@rock.dv.isc.org> <56166C30.3070501@matthew.at> <561699F3.1070600@tiedyenetworks.com> <20151008214123.95C343A1BC03@rock.dv.isc.org> <5616F212.8030706@tiedyenetworks.com> <5617CDB8.6010201@tiedyenetworks.com> Message-ID: (I'm going to regret this but...) On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 10:22 AM, Mike wrote: > On 10/08/2015 07:58 PM, Owen DeLong wrote: >> >> >> I can't remember the last time I saw a site stall due to reaching it over >> IPv6 it is that long ago. >>> >>> It happens every day for me, which only amplifies my perception that v6 >>> IS NOT READY FOR PRIME TIME. >> >> Yet you refuse to troubleshoot your issues with it that are not shared by >> others and blame the protocol for whatever is probably wrong with your own >> network. Interesting tactic. > > > Thats invalid. It matters not that you claim these isses are not 'shared by > others' - they are experienced routinely by others, and it's growing worse > as more 'services' are transitioned to 'v6' but then the attendant support > such as monitoring and operational knowledge/experience hasn't caught up and > those transitioned services fail on v6 silently for long periods of time. > That is the majority of the v6 world today and it's useless to claim > otherwise. The sense I get from the the thread bits I read is generally: 1) some (one, few, etc) folks are upset with v6 in their network or their deployment or their experience 2) some (many?) folks are pushing to 'move to v6!' 3) anger I think we should remember that: 1) your network, your rules 2) if you don't want to add v6 that's totally your call 3) the v4 internet will start getting less used over time, and more v6 stuff will appear 4) eventually users on only v4 will get degraded/no service for things they want to do. putting your head in the sand (on either side) isn't helpful here, and trying to jam your favorite flavor of spam down the other person's throat is only going to make them hate hawaii. -chris (I'm sure there's a Dune quote to be used here somewhere as well...) From list at satchell.net Fri Oct 9 15:25:06 2015 From: list at satchell.net (Stephen Satchell) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 08:25:06 -0700 Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: References: <7E645C67-2F5C-4CA0-9C0E-1BA41AF24ABC@delong.com> <20151004.164120.41639562.sthaug@nethelp.no> <18661688-294A-4662-8380-DF6C2C490E6F@beckman.org> <20151007140011.18E063A0FA32@rock.dv.isc.org> <56166C30.3070501@matthew.at> <561699F3.1070600@tiedyenetworks.com> <20151008214123.95C343A1BC03@rock.dv.isc.org> <5616F212.8030706@tiedyenetworks.com> <5617CDB8.6010201@tiedyenetworks.com> Message-ID: <5617DC52.8040305@satchell.net> On 10/09/2015 08:18 AM, Christopher Morrow wrote: > (I'm going to regret this but...) No good deed ever goes unpunished. > (I'm sure there's a Dune quote to be used here somewhere as well...) Indeed: "A beginning is the time for taking the most delicate care that the balances are correct." -- _Dune_ (1965) Frank Herbert From cscora at apnic.net Fri Oct 9 18:11:58 2015 From: cscora at apnic.net (Routing Analysis Role Account) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2015 04:11:58 +1000 (AEST) Subject: Weekly Routing Table Report Message-ID: <201510091811.t99IBw0u004655@thyme.rand.apnic.net> This is an automated weekly mailing describing the state of the Internet Routing Table as seen from APNIC's router in Japan. The posting is sent to APOPS, NANOG, AfNOG, AusNOG, SANOG, PacNOG, CaribNOG and the RIPE Routing Working Group. Daily listings are sent to bgp-stats at lists.apnic.net For historical data, please see http://thyme.rand.apnic.net. If you have any comments please contact Philip Smith . Routing Table Report 04:00 +10GMT Sat 10 Oct, 2015 Report Website: http://thyme.rand.apnic.net Detailed Analysis: http://thyme.rand.apnic.net/current/ Analysis Summary ---------------- BGP routing table entries examined: 565680 Prefixes after maximum aggregation (per Origin AS): 210869 Deaggregation factor: 2.68 Unique aggregates announced (without unneeded subnets): 275233 Total ASes present in the Internet Routing Table: 51691 Prefixes per ASN: 10.94 Origin-only ASes present in the Internet Routing Table: 36654 Origin ASes announcing only one prefix: 16087 Transit ASes present in the Internet Routing Table: 6413 Transit-only ASes present in the Internet Routing Table: 172 Average AS path length visible in the Internet Routing Table: 4.5 Max AS path length visible: 46 Max AS path prepend of ASN ( 55644) 41 Prefixes from unregistered ASNs in the Routing Table: 1057 Unregistered ASNs in the Routing Table: 408 Number of 32-bit ASNs allocated by the RIRs: 11280 Number of 32-bit ASNs visible in the Routing Table: 8624 Prefixes from 32-bit ASNs in the Routing Table: 32795 Number of bogon 32-bit ASNs visible in the Routing Table: 12 Special use prefixes present in the Routing Table: 1 Prefixes being announced from unallocated address space: 449 Number of addresses announced to Internet: 2812565952 Equivalent to 167 /8s, 164 /16s and 89 /24s Percentage of available address space announced: 76.0 Percentage of allocated address space announced: 76.0 Percentage of available address space allocated: 100.0 Percentage of address space in use by end-sites: 97.6 Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations: 186993 APNIC Region Analysis Summary ----------------------------- Prefixes being announced by APNIC Region ASes: 143717 Total APNIC prefixes after maximum aggregation: 39745 APNIC Deaggregation factor: 3.62 Prefixes being announced from the APNIC address blocks: 151507 Unique aggregates announced from the APNIC address blocks: 60319 APNIC Region origin ASes present in the Internet Routing Table: 5091 APNIC Prefixes per ASN: 29.76 APNIC Region origin ASes announcing only one prefix: 1198 APNIC Region transit ASes present in the Internet Routing Table: 891 Average APNIC Region AS path length visible: 4.4 Max APNIC Region AS path length visible: 45 Number of APNIC region 32-bit ASNs visible in the Routing Table: 1647 Number of APNIC addresses announced to Internet: 753971968 Equivalent to 44 /8s, 240 /16s and 179 /24s Percentage of available APNIC address space announced: 88.1 APNIC AS Blocks 4608-4864, 7467-7722, 9216-10239, 17408-18431 (pre-ERX allocations) 23552-24575, 37888-38911, 45056-46079, 55296-56319, 58368-59391, 63488-64098, 131072-135580 APNIC Address Blocks 1/8, 14/8, 27/8, 36/8, 39/8, 42/8, 43/8, 49/8, 58/8, 59/8, 60/8, 61/8, 101/8, 103/8, 106/8, 110/8, 111/8, 112/8, 113/8, 114/8, 115/8, 116/8, 117/8, 118/8, 119/8, 120/8, 121/8, 122/8, 123/8, 124/8, 125/8, 126/8, 133/8, 150/8, 153/8, 163/8, 171/8, 175/8, 180/8, 182/8, 183/8, 202/8, 203/8, 210/8, 211/8, 218/8, 219/8, 220/8, 221/8, 222/8, 223/8, ARIN Region Analysis Summary ---------------------------- Prefixes being announced by ARIN Region ASes: 179957 Total ARIN prefixes after maximum aggregation: 88284 ARIN Deaggregation factor: 2.04 Prefixes being announced from the ARIN address blocks: 183082 Unique aggregates announced from the ARIN address blocks: 86438 ARIN Region origin ASes present in the Internet Routing Table: 16566 ARIN Prefixes per ASN: 11.05 ARIN Region origin ASes announcing only one prefix: 6032 ARIN Region transit ASes present in the Internet Routing Table: 1751 Average ARIN Region AS path length visible: 3.8 Max ARIN Region AS path length visible: 27 Number of ARIN region 32-bit ASNs visible in the Routing Table: 734 Number of ARIN addresses announced to Internet: 1118857920 Equivalent to 66 /8s, 176 /16s and 106 /24s Percentage of available ARIN address space announced: 59.2 ARIN AS Blocks 1-1876, 1902-2042, 2044-2046, 2048-2106 (pre-ERX allocations) 2138-2584, 2615-2772, 2823-2829, 2880-3153 3354-4607, 4865-5119, 5632-6655, 6912-7466 7723-8191, 10240-12287, 13312-15359, 16384-17407 18432-20479, 21504-23551, 25600-26591, 26624-27647, 29696-30719, 31744-33791 35840-36863, 39936-40959, 46080-47103 53248-55295, 62464-63487, 64198-64296, 393216-395164 ARIN Address Blocks 3/8, 4/8, 6/8, 7/8, 8/8, 9/8, 11/8, 12/8, 13/8, 15/8, 16/8, 17/8, 18/8, 19/8, 20/8, 21/8, 22/8, 23/8, 24/8, 26/8, 28/8, 29/8, 30/8, 32/8, 33/8, 34/8, 35/8, 38/8, 40/8, 44/8, 45/8, 47/8, 48/8, 50/8, 52/8, 53/8, 54/8, 55/8, 56/8, 57/8, 63/8, 64/8, 65/8, 66/8, 67/8, 68/8, 69/8, 70/8, 71/8, 72/8, 73/8, 74/8, 75/8, 76/8, 96/8, 97/8, 98/8, 99/8, 100/8, 104/8, 107/8, 108/8, 128/8, 129/8, 130/8, 131/8, 132/8, 134/8, 135/8, 136/8, 137/8, 138/8, 139/8, 140/8, 142/8, 143/8, 144/8, 146/8, 147/8, 148/8, 149/8, 152/8, 155/8, 156/8, 157/8, 158/8, 159/8, 160/8, 161/8, 162/8, 164/8, 165/8, 166/8, 167/8, 168/8, 169/8, 170/8, 172/8, 173/8, 174/8, 184/8, 192/8, 198/8, 199/8, 204/8, 205/8, 206/8, 207/8, 208/8, 209/8, 214/8, 215/8, 216/8, RIPE Region Analysis Summary ---------------------------- Prefixes being announced by RIPE Region ASes: 136435 Total RIPE prefixes after maximum aggregation: 67997 RIPE Deaggregation factor: 2.01 Prefixes being announced from the RIPE address blocks: 143652 Unique aggregates announced from the RIPE address blocks: 89149 RIPE Region origin ASes present in the Internet Routing Table: 18004 RIPE Prefixes per ASN: 7.98 RIPE Region origin ASes announcing only one prefix: 8040 RIPE Region transit ASes present in the Internet Routing Table: 2993 Average RIPE Region AS path length visible: 4.9 Max RIPE Region AS path length visible: 32 Number of RIPE region 32-bit ASNs visible in the Routing Table: 4086 Number of RIPE addresses announced to Internet: 699825920 Equivalent to 41 /8s, 182 /16s and 127 /24s Percentage of available RIPE address space announced: 101.7 RIPE AS Blocks 1877-1901, 2043, 2047, 2107-2136, 2585-2614 (pre-ERX allocations) 2773-2822, 2830-2879, 3154-3353, 5377-5631 6656-6911, 8192-9215, 12288-13311, 15360-16383 20480-21503, 24576-25599, 28672-29695 30720-31743, 33792-35839, 38912-39935 40960-45055, 47104-52223, 56320-58367 59392-61439, 61952-62463, 196608-204287 RIPE Address Blocks 2/8, 5/8, 25/8, 31/8, 37/8, 46/8, 51/8, 62/8, 77/8, 78/8, 79/8, 80/8, 81/8, 82/8, 83/8, 84/8, 85/8, 86/8, 87/8, 88/8, 89/8, 90/8, 91/8, 92/8, 93/8, 94/8, 95/8, 109/8, 141/8, 145/8, 151/8, 176/8, 178/8, 185/8, 188/8, 193/8, 194/8, 195/8, 212/8, 213/8, 217/8, LACNIC Region Analysis Summary ------------------------------ Prefixes being announced by LACNIC Region ASes: 60747 Total LACNIC prefixes after maximum aggregation: 11702 LACNIC Deaggregation factor: 5.19 Prefixes being announced from the LACNIC address blocks: 73044 Unique aggregates announced from the LACNIC address blocks: 33545 LACNIC Region origin ASes present in the Internet Routing Table: 2471 LACNIC Prefixes per ASN: 29.56 LACNIC Region origin ASes announcing only one prefix: 621 LACNIC Region transit ASes present in the Internet Routing Table: 535 Average LACNIC Region AS path length visible: 4.9 Max LACNIC Region AS path length visible: 28 Number of LACNIC region 32-bit ASNs visible in the Routing Table: 1998 Number of LACNIC addresses announced to Internet: 169659136 Equivalent to 10 /8s, 28 /16s and 203 /24s Percentage of available LACNIC address space announced: 101.1 LACNIC AS Blocks 26592-26623, 27648-28671, 52224-53247, 61440-61951, 64099-64197, 262144-265628 + ERX transfers LACNIC Address Blocks 177/8, 179/8, 181/8, 186/8, 187/8, 189/8, 190/8, 191/8, 200/8, 201/8, AfriNIC Region Analysis Summary ------------------------------- Prefixes being announced by AfriNIC Region ASes: 11914 Total AfriNIC prefixes after maximum aggregation: 3099 AfriNIC Deaggregation factor: 3.84 Prefixes being announced from the AfriNIC address blocks: 13946 Unique aggregates announced from the AfriNIC address blocks: 5426 AfriNIC Region origin ASes present in the Internet Routing Table: 735 AfriNIC Prefixes per ASN: 18.97 AfriNIC Region origin ASes announcing only one prefix: 196 AfriNIC Region transit ASes present in the Internet Routing Table: 171 Average AfriNIC Region AS path length visible: 4.6 Max AfriNIC Region AS path length visible: 27 Number of AfriNIC region 32-bit ASNs visible in the Routing Table: 159 Number of AfriNIC addresses announced to Internet: 69716224 Equivalent to 4 /8s, 39 /16s and 201 /24s Percentage of available AfriNIC address space announced: 69.3 AfriNIC AS Blocks 36864-37887, 327680-328703 & ERX transfers AfriNIC Address Blocks 41/8, 102/8, 105/8, 154/8, 196/8, 197/8, APNIC Region per AS prefix count summary ---------------------------------------- ASN No of nets /20 equiv MaxAgg Description 4538 5593 4192 76 China Education and Research 4766 3010 11134 984 Korea Telecom 7545 2870 340 141 TPG Telecom Limited 17974 2699 908 90 PT Telekomunikasi Indonesia 4755 2057 430 229 TATA Communications formerly 9829 1930 1388 237 National Internet Backbone 9808 1642 8639 18 Guangdong Mobile Communicatio 4812 1574 2099 113 China Telecom (Group) 4808 1523 2258 481 CNCGROUP IP network China169 9583 1496 119 561 Sify Limited Complete listing at http://thyme.rand.apnic.net/current/data-ASnet-APNIC ARIN Region per AS prefix count summary --------------------------------------- ASN No of nets /20 equiv MaxAgg Description 22773 3194 2966 145 Cox Communications Inc. 6389 2685 3688 44 BellSouth.net Inc. 3356 2529 10709 501 Level 3 Communications, Inc. 18566 2204 393 264 MegaPath Corporation 20115 1891 1892 397 Charter Communications 6983 1740 866 241 EarthLink, Inc. 30036 1629 330 385 Mediacom Communications Corp 4323 1584 1005 405 tw telecom holdings, inc. 701 1399 11401 675 MCI Communications Services, 22561 1278 364 218 CenturyTel Internet Holdings, Complete listing at http://thyme.rand.apnic.net/current/data-ASnet-ARIN RIPE Region per AS prefix count summary --------------------------------------- ASN No of nets /20 equiv MaxAgg Description 39891 2473 129 7 SaudiNet, Saudi Telecom Compa 20940 2144 840 1548 Akamai International B.V. 34984 2026 304 395 TELLCOM ILETISIM HIZMETLERI A 6849 1209 355 21 JSC "Ukrtelecom" 8402 1176 544 15 OJSC "Vimpelcom" 13188 1070 97 76 TOV "Bank-Inform" 31148 1039 46 40 Freenet Ltd. 12479 1018 966 84 France Telecom Espana SA 8551 981 376 52 Bezeq International-Ltd 6830 900 2694 465 Liberty Global Operations B.V Complete listing at http://thyme.rand.apnic.net/current/data-ASnet-RIPE LACNIC Region per AS prefix count summary ----------------------------------------- ASN No of nets /20 equiv MaxAgg Description 10620 3387 540 172 Telmex Colombia S.A. 28573 1978 2164 121 NET Servi?os de Comunica??o S 8151 1802 3307 492 Uninet S.A. de C.V. 7303 1572 940 239 Telecom Argentina S.A. 6503 1401 437 55 Axtel, S.A.B. de C.V. 6147 1058 374 30 Telefonica del Peru S.A.A. 26615 1030 2325 35 Tim Celular S.A. 7738 997 1882 41 Telemar Norte Leste S.A. 11830 994 364 24 Instituto Costarricense de El 3816 955 437 164 COLOMBIA TELECOMUNICACIONES S Complete listing at http://thyme.rand.apnic.net/current/data-ASnet-LACNIC AfriNIC Region per AS prefix count summary ------------------------------------------ ASN No of nets /20 equiv MaxAgg Description 8452 976 1468 10 TE-AS 24863 599 262 82 Link Egypt (Link.NET) 36903 522 263 99 Office National des Postes et 36992 414 1229 32 ETISALAT MISR 37492 315 191 72 Orange Tunisie 29571 246 21 12 Cote d'Ivoire Telecom 3741 220 853 183 Internet Solutions 24835 209 144 8 Vodafone Data 36947 196 807 13 Telecom Algeria 15706 171 32 6 Sudatel (Sudan Telecom Co. Lt Complete listing at http://thyme.rand.apnic.net/current/data-ASnet-AFRINIC Global Per AS prefix count summary ---------------------------------- ASN No of nets /20 equiv MaxAgg Description 4538 5593 4192 76 China Education and Research 10620 3387 540 172 Telmex Colombia S.A. 22773 3194 2966 145 Cox Communications Inc. 4766 3010 11134 984 Korea Telecom 7545 2870 340 141 TPG Telecom Limited 17974 2699 908 90 PT Telekomunikasi Indonesia 6389 2685 3688 44 BellSouth.net Inc. 3356 2529 10709 501 Level 3 Communications, Inc. 39891 2473 129 7 SaudiNet, Saudi Telecom Compa 18566 2204 393 264 MegaPath Corporation Complete listing at http://thyme.rand.apnic.net/current/data-ASnet Global Per AS Maximum Aggr summary ---------------------------------- ASN No of nets Net Savings Description 10620 3387 3215 Telmex Colombia S.A. 22773 3194 3049 Cox Communications Inc. 7545 2870 2729 TPG Telecom Limited 6389 2685 2641 BellSouth.net Inc. 17974 2699 2609 PT Telekomunikasi Indonesia 39891 2473 2466 SaudiNet, Saudi Telecom Compa 3356 2529 2028 Level 3 Communications, Inc. 4766 3010 2026 Korea Telecom 18566 2204 1940 MegaPath Corporation 28573 1978 1857 NET Servi?os de Comunica??o S Complete listing at http://thyme.rand.apnic.net/current/data-CIDRnet List of Unregistered Origin ASNs (Global) ----------------------------------------- Bad AS Designation Network Transit AS Description 30662 UNALLOCATED 8.2.129.0/24 3356 Level 3 Communicatio 47092 UNALLOCATED 8.8.204.0/24 16410 The Reynolds and Rey 53506 UNALLOCATED 8.17.102.0/23 2828 XO Communications 46467 UNALLOCATED 8.19.192.0/24 46887 Lightower Fiber Netw 18985 UNALLOCATED 8.21.68.0/22 3356 Level 3 Communicatio 46473 UNALLOCATED 8.27.122.0/24 12180 Internap Network Ser 46473 UNALLOCATED 8.27.124.0/24 12180 Internap Network Ser 33646 UNALLOCATED 8.37.4.0/24 3356 Level 3 Communicatio 27205 UNALLOCATED 8.38.16.0/21 6461 Abovenet Communicati 15347 UNALLOCATED 8.224.147.0/24 12064 Cox Communications I Complete listing at http://thyme.rand.apnic.net/current/data-badAS Prefixes from private and non-routed address space (Global) ----------------------------------------------------------- Prefix Origin AS Description 100.100.1.0/24 9730 Bharti Telesonic Ltd Complete listing at http://thyme.rand.apnic.net/current/data-dsua Advertised Unallocated Addresses -------------------------------- Network Origin AS Description 23.226.112.0/20 62788 >>UNKNOWN<< 23.249.144.0/20 40430 colo4jax, LLC 23.249.144.0/21 40430 colo4jax, LLC 23.249.152.0/21 40430 colo4jax, LLC 27.50.8.0/24 55548 >>UNKNOWN<< 27.50.9.0/24 55548 >>UNKNOWN<< 27.50.10.0/24 55548 >>UNKNOWN<< 27.50.11.0/24 55548 >>UNKNOWN<< 27.100.7.0/24 56096 >>UNKNOWN<< 31.170.96.0/23 23456 32bit Transition AS Complete listing at http://thyme.rand.apnic.net/current/data-add-IANA Number of prefixes announced per prefix length (Global) ------------------------------------------------------- /1:0 /2:0 /3:0 /4:0 /5:0 /6:0 /7:0 /8:18 /9:13 /10:36 /11:95 /12:262 /13:503 /14:1005 /15:1746 /16:12913 /17:7395 /18:12587 /19:26181 /20:37385 /21:39604 /22:61983 /23:54339 /24:307300 /25:821 /26:944 /27:491 /28:15 /29:14 /30:9 /31:0 /32:21 Advertised prefixes smaller than registry allocations ----------------------------------------------------- ASN No of nets Total ann. Description 39891 2432 2473 SaudiNet, Saudi Telecom Compa 22773 2402 3194 Cox Communications Inc. 18566 2110 2204 MegaPath Corporation 6389 1607 2685 BellSouth.net Inc. 30036 1448 1629 Mediacom Communications Corp 6983 1387 1740 EarthLink, Inc. 34984 1347 2026 TELLCOM ILETISIM HIZMETLERI A 10620 1262 3387 Telmex Colombia S.A. 11492 1114 1196 CABLE ONE, INC. 6849 992 1209 JSC "Ukrtelecom" Complete listing at http://thyme.rand.apnic.net/current/data-sXXas-nos Number of /24s announced per /8 block (Global) ---------------------------------------------- 1:1593 2:692 4:97 5:1900 6:25 8:1411 12:1809 13:17 14:1472 15:16 16:2 17:48 18:22 20:51 23:1255 24:1735 27:2091 31:1628 32:52 33:2 34:4 35:4 36:163 37:2242 38:1076 39:15 40:72 41:2808 42:343 43:1571 44:32 45:1357 46:2358 47:55 49:1006 50:805 52:23 54:94 55:6 56:6 57:43 58:1425 59:782 60:505 61:1789 62:1386 63:1911 64:4400 65:2213 66:4027 67:2071 68:1075 69:3275 70:1035 71:456 72:1985 74:2550 75:364 76:401 77:1392 78:1237 79:799 80:1349 81:1362 82:889 83:673 84:772 85:1411 86:453 87:1028 88:526 89:1918 90:151 91:6011 92:832 93:2299 94:2172 95:2210 96:460 97:350 98:955 99:56 100:75 101:852 103:8492 104:2036 105:76 106:352 107:1059 108:629 109:2132 110:1221 111:1459 112:839 113:1121 114:870 115:1426 116:1514 117:1113 118:1951 119:1495 120:478 121:1149 122:2253 123:1863 124:1564 125:1736 128:703 129:367 130:431 131:1255 132:544 133:160 134:430 135:115 136:349 137:293 138:1389 139:174 140:246 141:438 142:654 143:565 144:561 145:127 146:777 147:595 148:1275 149:429 150:602 151:649 152:568 153:266 154:484 155:887 156:424 157:424 158:349 159:1058 160:410 161:685 162:2149 163:467 164:693 165:861 166:306 167:886 168:1240 169:196 170:1501 171:258 172:303 173:1537 174:716 175:713 176:1462 177:4009 178:2204 179:1027 180:1949 181:1600 182:1817 183:641 184:748 185:4442 186:2950 187:1863 188:2081 189:1673 190:7560 191:1189 192:8616 193:5661 194:4270 195:3677 196:1944 197:1130 198:5515 199:5517 200:6668 201:3250 202:9815 203:9201 204:4547 205:2707 206:3044 207:2996 208:3999 209:3909 210:3778 211:2042 212:2558 213:2261 214:835 215:72 216:5742 217:1810 218:804 219:537 220:1580 221:825 222:724 223:831 End of report From surfer at mauigateway.com Fri Oct 9 19:48:47 2015 From: surfer at mauigateway.com (Scott Weeks) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 12:48:47 -0700 Subject: /27 the new /24 Message-ID: <20151009124847.F82EBEB5@m0087794.ppops.net> --- morrowc.lists at gmail.com wrote: From: Christopher Morrow ... and trying to jam your favorite flavor of spam down the other person's throat is only going to make them hate hawaii. ------------------------------------------------------ FYI... :-) http://www.thehawaiiplan.com/why-do-hawaiians-love-spam "One tidbit of information that seems to get around is that people in Hawaii really like SPAM. And it?s true: about 6 million cans of SPAM are eaten each year in Hawaii. That?s around 5 cans per person in Hawaii." scott From baldur.norddahl at gmail.com Fri Oct 9 20:00:19 2015 From: baldur.norddahl at gmail.com (Baldur Norddahl) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 22:00:19 +0200 Subject: IP-Echelon Compliance Message-ID: Hi I am sure all of you know of these guys. But what do you do when they keep spamming your abuse address with reports for illegal downloads from IP-addresses that are in no way related to our business? I tried contacting them. And was told repeatedly that I had to update whois information if I want the reports to be sent to another address. How I do that for IP-ranges that are not mine is a good question. Besides the whois information for said IP-ranges already have valid abuse information and it is not our email address. Do I just block them for spamming? Regards, Baldur From owen at delong.com Fri Oct 9 20:04:02 2015 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 16:04:02 -0400 Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: References: <20151004.164120.41639562.sthaug@nethelp.no> <18661688-294A-4662-8380-DF6C2C490E6F@beckman.org> <20151007140011.18E063A0FA32@rock.dv.isc.org> <56166C30.3070501@matthew.at> <561699F3.1070600@tiedyenetworks.com> <20151008214123.95C343A1BC03@rock.dv.isc.org> <5616F212.8030706@tiedyenetworks.com> <20151008232550.GA22470@mis10.towardex.com> Message-ID: > On Oct 8, 2015, at 11:24 PM, Jeremy Austin wrote: > > On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 3:25 PM, James Jun wrote: > >> >> If you want choices in your transit providers, you should get a transport >> circuit (dark, wave or EPL) to a nearby carrier hotel/data center. Once >> you do that, you will suddenly find that virtually almost everyone in the >> competitive IP transit market will provide you with dual-stacked IPv4/IPv6 >> service. >> > > The future is here, but it isn't evenly distributed yet. I'm in North > America, but there are no IXPs in my *state*, let alone in my *continent* > -- from an undersea fiber perspective. There is no truly competitive IP > transit market within Alaska that I am aware of. Would love to be proved > wrong. Heck, GCI and ACS (the two providers with such fiber) only directly > peered a handful of years ago. Alaska is in the same continent as Canda and the Contiguous US. VANIX (Vancouver), CIX (Calgary), Manitoba-IX (Winnipeg), WPGIX (WInnipeg), TORIX (Toronto), and an exchange in Montreal (I forget the name) exist as well as a few others in Canada (I think there?s even one out in the maritimes). There are tons of exchanges all over the contiguous US. I?m surprised that there isn?t yet an exchange point in Juneau or Anchorage, but that does, indeed, appear to be the case. Perhaps you should work with some other ISPs in your state to form one. According to this: http://www.alaskaunited.com There is subsea fiber to several points in AK from Seattle and beyond. And on a continental basis, quite a bit of undersea fiber in other landing stations around the coastal areas of the contiguous 48. >> If you are buying DIA circuit from some $isp to your rural location that >> you call "head-end" and are expecting to receive a competitive service, >> and support for IPv6, well, then your expectations are either unreasonable, >> ignorant or both. >> > > Interestingly both statewide providers *do* provide both IPv4 and IPv6 > peering. The trick is to find a spot where there's true price competition. > The 3 largest statewide ISPs have fiber that meets a mere three city blocks > from one of my POPs, but there's no allowable IX. I'm looking at you, AT&T. I?m not sure what you mean by ?allowable IX?, to the best of my knowledge, anyone can build an IX anywhere. Owen From owen at delong.com Fri Oct 9 20:07:49 2015 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 16:07:49 -0400 Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: <5617CDB8.6010201@tiedyenetworks.com> References: <7E645C67-2F5C-4CA0-9C0E-1BA41AF24ABC@delong.com> <20151004.164120.41639562.sthaug@nethelp.no> <18661688-294A-4662-8380-DF6C2C490E6F@beckman.org> <20151007140011.18E063A0FA32@rock.dv.isc.org> <56166C30.3070501@matthew.at> <561699F3.1070600@tiedyenetworks.com> <20151008214123.95C343A1BC03@rock.dv.isc.org> <5616F212.8030706@tiedyenetworks.com> <5617CDB8.6010201@tiedyenetworks.com> Message-ID: <9CCC5372-E0B2-4B21-B9D3-2FE26B551689@delong.com> > On Oct 9, 2015, at 10:22 AM, Mike wrote: > > On 10/08/2015 07:58 PM, Owen DeLong wrote: >> >> I can't remember the last time I saw a site stall due to reaching it over IPv6 it is that long ago. >>> It happens every day for me, which only amplifies my perception that v6 IS NOT READY FOR PRIME TIME. >> Yet you refuse to troubleshoot your issues with it that are not shared by others and blame the protocol for whatever is probably wrong with your own network. Interesting tactic. > > Thats invalid. It matters not that you claim these isses are not 'shared by others' - they are experienced routinely by others, and it's growing worse as more 'services' are transitioned to 'v6' but then the attendant support such as monitoring and operational knowledge/experience hasn't caught up and those transitioned services fail on v6 silently for long periods of time. That is the majority of the v6 world today and it's useless to claim otherwise. Permit me to rephrase?. ?not experienced by those with functioning networks? That is? It is not an inherent problem in the protocol, but rather a local misconfiguration in those networks experiencing these problems. There is sufficient evidence to back this up as the symptoms describe well known problems with well known solutions. The choice of particular network operators to complain about IPv6 being broken rather than research and apply those well known solutions is, in fact, a problem with those operators and not a problem with IPv6. Owen From morrowc.lists at gmail.com Fri Oct 9 20:19:21 2015 From: morrowc.lists at gmail.com (Christopher Morrow) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 16:19:21 -0400 Subject: IP-Echelon Compliance In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 4:00 PM, Baldur Norddahl wrote: > Hi > > I am sure all of you know of these guys. But what do you do when they keep > spamming your abuse address with reports for illegal downloads from > IP-addresses that are in no way related to our business? > fairly certian that nothing ip-echelon sends is ever valid... or there's enough 'clearly you are joking' mail from them that anyone who ends up in court for 'ip echelon violations' could simply subpeona their isp for 'other complaints from ip echelon' and show the judge: "Clearly these folk are on the good crack, case closed due to reasonable doubt." > I tried contacting them. And was told repeatedly that I had to update whois > information if I want the reports to be sent to another address. How I do > that for IP-ranges that are not mine is a good question. Besides the whois > information for said IP-ranges already have valid abuse information and it > is not our email address. > > Do I just block them for spamming? > > Regards, > > Baldur From jhaustin at gmail.com Fri Oct 9 20:51:12 2015 From: jhaustin at gmail.com (Jeremy Austin) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 12:51:12 -0800 Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: References: <20151004.164120.41639562.sthaug@nethelp.no> <18661688-294A-4662-8380-DF6C2C490E6F@beckman.org> <20151007140011.18E063A0FA32@rock.dv.isc.org> <56166C30.3070501@matthew.at> <561699F3.1070600@tiedyenetworks.com> <20151008214123.95C343A1BC03@rock.dv.isc.org> <5616F212.8030706@tiedyenetworks.com> <20151008232550.GA22470@mis10.towardex.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 12:04 PM, Owen DeLong wrote: > > > The future is here, but it isn't evenly distributed yet. I'm in North > America, but there are no IXPs in my *state*, let alone in my *continent* > -- from an undersea fiber perspective. There is no truly competitive IP > transit market within Alaska that I am aware of. Would love to be proved > wrong. Heck, GCI and ACS (the two providers with such fiber) only directly > peered a handful of years ago. > > > Alaska is in the same continent as Canda and the Contiguous US. > Geographically yes, but not IP-topologically. It may strictly speaking be an exaggeration to speak of continental latencies, but we do feel a bit cut off up here. From me to Ohio is just about twice as far as from me to CA. The distance from the eastern US to Portugal is only about twice as long as the Anchorage to Seattle route. > VANIX (Vancouver), CIX (Calgary), Manitoba-IX (Winnipeg), WPGIX > (WInnipeg), TORIX (Toronto), > and an exchange in Montreal (I forget the name) exist as well as a few > others in Canada (I think > there?s even one out in the maritimes). > If there were ever an Alaska-to-Canada pipeline or gas line built, no doubt there could be fiber. To my knowledge no non-Arctic Alaska to Yukon route exists or is in public planning. I think AT&T may have some microwave. The Yukon has less overall population than the city of Fairbanks, AK, and it would be difficult to justify a fiber build, say, from Tok to Whitehorse, without other reasons. I'm not looking at great circle routes at the moment, but an overland route would probably be *longer* from Anchorage to Vancouver than the current undersea routes. > There are tons of exchanges all over the contiguous US. > Exactly. Now imagine an area ? Alaska not including Anchorage ? twice the size of Texas, with the population of Pittsburgh, in tiny clumps far apart. It is *possible* that the lack of IX in Alaska is due solely to geography and not, say, to an inadequately competitive ISP environment. I?m surprised that there isn?t yet an exchange point in Juneau or > Anchorage, but that > does, indeed, appear to be the case. Perhaps you should work with some > other ISPs > in your state to form one. > Juneau, I'm not so surprised; how many other cities that small and isolated have IXes? I'm curious. It's an interesting prospect, at least for some value of $location. Anyone interested, hit me up. According to this: > http://www.alaskaunited.com > > There is subsea fiber to several points in AK from Seattle and beyond. > Said undersea fiber is owned by GCI and ACS. There are some pending routes west and north, I believe. > > And on a continental basis, quite a bit of undersea fiber in other landing > stations > around the coastal areas of the contiguous 48. > > If you are buying DIA circuit from some $isp to your rural location that > you call "head-end" and are expecting to receive a competitive service, > and support for IPv6, well, then your expectations are either unreasonable, > ignorant or both. > > Interestingly both statewide providers *do* provide both IPv4 and IPv6 > peering. The trick is to find a spot where there's true price competition. > The 3 largest statewide ISPs have fiber that meets a mere three city blocks > from one of my POPs, but there's no allowable IX. I'm looking at you, AT&T. > > > I?m not sure what you mean by ?allowable IX?, to the best of my knowledge, > anyone > can build an IX anywhere. > I should have been more clear. No allowable IX *at the nearest fiber meetup to me*. It would be illuminating to see what minimum peak hour per-capita bw is necessary to make rural IX pay, and for what value of $rural. "Alaska suffers from? an abject lack of density." ?Joe Freddoso, Mighty River/USAC From theodore at ciscodude.net Fri Oct 9 20:52:54 2015 From: theodore at ciscodude.net (Theodore Baschak) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 15:52:54 -0500 Subject: IP-Echelon Compliance In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <928FC57E-C341-4A18-95A9-41F088FE87B9@ciscodude.net> > On Oct 9, 2015, at 3:19 PM, Christopher Morrow wrote: > > fairly certian that nothing ip-echelon sends is ever valid... > or there's enough 'clearly you are joking' mail from them that anyone > who ends up in court for 'ip echelon violations' could simply subpeona > their isp for 'other complaints from ip echelon' and show the judge: > "Clearly these folk are on the good crack, case closed due to > reasonable doubt." Are these the jokers that send out PGP signed antipiracy notices, but don't have that key available anywhere on the internet (keyserver, webpage, etc) to validate the authenticity of their signed messages? From nanog at ics-il.net Fri Oct 9 21:32:30 2015 From: nanog at ics-il.net (Mike Hammett) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 16:32:30 -0500 (CDT) Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <560000334.11931.1444426395320.JavaMail.mhammett@ThunderFuck> As I "know" Jeremy from elsewhere, I reached out to him this morning about this. I would like to speak with any other Alaskers? Alaskites? people from Alaska. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeremy Austin" To: "Owen DeLong" Cc: nanog at nanog.org, "James Jun" Sent: Friday, October 9, 2015 3:51:12 PM Subject: Re: /27 the new /24 On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 12:04 PM, Owen DeLong wrote: > > > The future is here, but it isn't evenly distributed yet. I'm in North > America, but there are no IXPs in my *state*, let alone in my *continent* > -- from an undersea fiber perspective. There is no truly competitive IP > transit market within Alaska that I am aware of. Would love to be proved > wrong. Heck, GCI and ACS (the two providers with such fiber) only directly > peered a handful of years ago. > > > Alaska is in the same continent as Canda and the Contiguous US. > Geographically yes, but not IP-topologically. It may strictly speaking be an exaggeration to speak of continental latencies, but we do feel a bit cut off up here. From me to Ohio is just about twice as far as from me to CA. The distance from the eastern US to Portugal is only about twice as long as the Anchorage to Seattle route. > VANIX (Vancouver), CIX (Calgary), Manitoba-IX (Winnipeg), WPGIX > (WInnipeg), TORIX (Toronto), > and an exchange in Montreal (I forget the name) exist as well as a few > others in Canada (I think > there?s even one out in the maritimes). > If there were ever an Alaska-to-Canada pipeline or gas line built, no doubt there could be fiber. To my knowledge no non-Arctic Alaska to Yukon route exists or is in public planning. I think AT&T may have some microwave. The Yukon has less overall population than the city of Fairbanks, AK, and it would be difficult to justify a fiber build, say, from Tok to Whitehorse, without other reasons. I'm not looking at great circle routes at the moment, but an overland route would probably be *longer* from Anchorage to Vancouver than the current undersea routes. > There are tons of exchanges all over the contiguous US. > Exactly. Now imagine an area ? Alaska not including Anchorage ? twice the size of Texas, with the population of Pittsburgh, in tiny clumps far apart. It is *possible* that the lack of IX in Alaska is due solely to geography and not, say, to an inadequately competitive ISP environment. I?m surprised that there isn?t yet an exchange point in Juneau or > Anchorage, but that > does, indeed, appear to be the case. Perhaps you should work with some > other ISPs > in your state to form one. > Juneau, I'm not so surprised; how many other cities that small and isolated have IXes? I'm curious. It's an interesting prospect, at least for some value of $location. Anyone interested, hit me up. According to this: > http://www.alaskaunited.com > > There is subsea fiber to several points in AK from Seattle and beyond. > Said undersea fiber is owned by GCI and ACS. There are some pending routes west and north, I believe. > > And on a continental basis, quite a bit of undersea fiber in other landing > stations > around the coastal areas of the contiguous 48. > > If you are buying DIA circuit from some $isp to your rural location that > you call "head-end" and are expecting to receive a competitive service, > and support for IPv6, well, then your expectations are either unreasonable, > ignorant or both. > > Interestingly both statewide providers *do* provide both IPv4 and IPv6 > peering. The trick is to find a spot where there's true price competition. > The 3 largest statewide ISPs have fiber that meets a mere three city blocks > from one of my POPs, but there's no allowable IX. I'm looking at you, AT&T. > > > I?m not sure what you mean by ?allowable IX?, to the best of my knowledge, > anyone > can build an IX anywhere. > I should have been more clear. No allowable IX *at the nearest fiber meetup to me*. It would be illuminating to see what minimum peak hour per-capita bw is necessary to make rural IX pay, and for what value of $rural. "Alaska suffers from? an abject lack of density." ?Joe Freddoso, Mighty River/USAC From sean at donelan.com Fri Oct 9 21:35:58 2015 From: sean at donelan.com (Sean Donelan) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 17:35:58 -0400 (EDT) Subject: IP-Echelon Compliance In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 9 Oct 2015, Christopher Morrow wrote: > fairly certian that nothing ip-echelon sends is ever valid... > or there's enough 'clearly you are joking' mail from them that anyone > who ends up in court for 'ip echelon violations' could simply subpeona > their isp for 'other complaints from ip echelon' and show the judge: > "Clearly these folk are on the good crack, case closed due to > reasonable doubt." procmailrc is your friend. however far your lawyer lets you go. From rsk at gsp.org Fri Oct 9 21:40:11 2015 From: rsk at gsp.org (Rich Kulawiec) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 17:40:11 -0400 Subject: IP-Echelon Compliance In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20151009214011.GA23885@gsp.org> On Fri, Oct 09, 2015 at 10:00:19PM +0200, Baldur Norddahl wrote: > Do I just block them for spamming? Yes, since that's what they're doing. Consider: they're sending email. It's unsolicited (you did not ask for it by confirmed/closed-loop subscription). And it's bulk: these are not individual messages, they're auto-generated and primarily consist of identical boilerplate. Thus, unsolicited bulk email, thus spam (since that's the canonical definition). ---rsk From cidr-report at potaroo.net Fri Oct 9 22:00:00 2015 From: cidr-report at potaroo.net (cidr-report at potaroo.net) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 22:00:00 GMT Subject: The Cidr Report Message-ID: <201510092200.t99M00Mh029335@wattle.apnic.net> This report has been generated at Fri Oct 9 21:14:52 2015 AEST. The report analyses the BGP Routing Table of AS2.0 router and generates a report on aggregation potential within the table. Check http://www.cidr-report.org/2.0 for a current version of this report. Recent Table History Date Prefixes CIDR Agg 02-10-15 574326 311986 03-10-15 574303 312123 04-10-15 574361 312069 05-10-15 574339 311728 06-10-15 573887 312003 07-10-15 574393 312333 08-10-15 574867 312486 09-10-15 574602 312689 AS Summary 51976 Number of ASes in routing system 20601 Number of ASes announcing only one prefix 5610 Largest number of prefixes announced by an AS AS4538 : ERX-CERNET-BKB China Education and Research Network Center,CN 121035520 Largest address span announced by an AS (/32s) AS4134 : CHINANET-BACKBONE No.31,Jin-rong Street,CN Aggregation Summary The algorithm used in this report proposes aggregation only when there is a precise match using the AS path, so as to preserve traffic transit policies. Aggregation is also proposed across non-advertised address space ('holes'). --- 09Oct15 --- ASnum NetsNow NetsAggr NetGain % Gain Description Table 574583 312675 261908 45.6% All ASes AS22773 3197 176 3021 94.5% ASN-CXA-ALL-CCI-22773-RDC - Cox Communications Inc.,US AS4538 5610 2810 2800 49.9% ERX-CERNET-BKB China Education and Research Network Center,CN AS17974 2699 91 2608 96.6% TELKOMNET-AS2-AP PT Telekomunikasi Indonesia,ID AS39891 2474 21 2453 99.2% ALJAWWALSTC-AS Saudi Telecom Company JSC,SA AS7545 2995 557 2438 81.4% TPG-INTERNET-AP TPG Telecom Limited,AU AS6389 2685 490 2195 81.8% BELLSOUTH-NET-BLK - BellSouth.net Inc.,US AS9394 2100 206 1894 90.2% CTTNET China TieTong Telecommunications Corporation,CN AS3356 2535 778 1757 69.3% LEVEL3 - Level 3 Communications, Inc.,US AS4766 3010 1276 1734 57.6% KIXS-AS-KR Korea Telecom,KR AS28573 1982 301 1681 84.8% NET Servi?os de Comunica??o S.A.,BR AS9808 1644 102 1542 93.8% CMNET-GD Guangdong Mobile Communication Co.Ltd.,CN AS6983 1738 244 1494 86.0% ITCDELTA - Earthlink, Inc.,US AS4755 2057 569 1488 72.3% TATACOMM-AS TATA Communications formerly VSNL is Leading ISP,IN AS20115 1891 410 1481 78.3% CHARTER-NET-HKY-NC - Charter Communications,US AS10620 3387 1983 1404 41.5% Telmex Colombia S.A.,CO AS9498 1396 130 1266 90.7% BBIL-AP BHARTI Airtel Ltd.,IN AS7552 1437 210 1227 85.4% VIETEL-AS-AP Viettel Corporation,VN AS4323 1588 406 1182 74.4% TWTC - tw telecom holdings, inc.,US AS18566 2205 1025 1180 53.5% MEGAPATH5-US - MegaPath Corporation,US AS38285 1170 18 1152 98.5% M2TELECOMMUNICATIONS-AU M2 Telecommunications Group Ltd,AU AS8402 1163 22 1141 98.1% CORBINA-AS OJSC "Vimpelcom",RU AS22561 1274 219 1055 82.8% CENTURYLINK-LEGACY-LIGHTCORE - CenturyTel Internet Holdings, Inc.,US AS4812 1575 526 1049 66.6% CHINANET-SH-AP China Telecom (Group),CN AS7303 1572 524 1048 66.7% Telecom Argentina S.A.,AR AS4808 1539 520 1019 66.2% CHINA169-BJ CNCGROUP IP network China169 Beijing Province Network,CN AS38197 1459 443 1016 69.6% SUNHK-DATA-AS-AP Sun Network (Hong Kong) Limited,HK AS4788 1355 406 949 70.0% TMNET-AS-AP TM Net, Internet Service Provider,MY AS8151 1802 862 940 52.2% Uninet S.A. de C.V.,MX AS6849 1206 269 937 77.7% UKRTELNET JSC UKRTELECOM,UA AS7738 997 79 918 92.1% Telemar Norte Leste S.A.,BR Total 61742 15673 46069 74.6% Top 30 total Possible Bogus Routes 23.226.112.0/20 AS62788 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 23.249.144.0/20 AS40430 COLO4JAX-AS - colo4jax, LLC,US 23.249.144.0/21 AS40430 COLO4JAX-AS - colo4jax, LLC,US 23.249.152.0/21 AS40430 COLO4JAX-AS - colo4jax, LLC,US 27.50.8.0/24 AS55548 27.50.9.0/24 AS55548 27.50.10.0/24 AS55548 27.50.11.0/24 AS55548 27.100.7.0/24 AS56096 31.170.96.0/23 AS19798 YOUZEE-MAIN Manaslu Media Entertainment SL,ES 31.217.248.0/21 AS44902 COV-ASN COVAGE NETWORKS SASU,FR 41.73.1.0/24 AS37004 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 41.73.2.0/24 AS37004 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 41.73.3.0/24 AS37004 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 41.73.4.0/24 AS37004 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 41.73.5.0/24 AS37004 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 41.73.6.0/24 AS37004 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 41.73.7.0/24 AS37004 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 41.73.8.0/24 AS37004 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 41.73.9.0/24 AS37004 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 41.73.10.0/24 AS37004 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 41.73.11.0/24 AS37004 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 41.73.12.0/24 AS37004 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 41.73.13.0/24 AS37004 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 41.73.14.0/24 AS37004 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 41.73.15.0/24 AS37004 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 41.73.16.0/24 AS37004 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 41.73.17.0/24 AS37004 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 41.73.18.0/24 AS37004 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 41.73.20.0/24 AS37004 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 41.73.21.0/24 AS37004 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 41.78.180.0/23 AS37265 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 41.189.96.0/20 AS37000 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 41.189.126.0/24 AS16422 NEWSKIES-NETWORKS - New Skies Satellites, Inc.,US 41.189.127.0/24 AS37000 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 41.189.128.0/24 AS37000 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 41.191.108.0/24 AS37004 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 41.191.109.0/24 AS37004 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 41.191.110.0/24 AS37004 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 41.191.111.0/24 AS37004 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 41.223.208.0/22 AS37000 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 43.243.132.0/22 AS20413 LOGISTIK-SERV-AS LLC "TRANSPORTATION COMPANY "LOGISTICS SERVICE",RU 43.245.120.0/22 AS20413 LOGISTIK-SERV-AS LLC "TRANSPORTATION COMPANY "LOGISTICS SERVICE",RU 43.245.220.0/22 AS20413 LOGISTIK-SERV-AS LLC "TRANSPORTATION COMPANY "LOGISTICS SERVICE",RU 43.250.76.0/22 AS20413 LOGISTIK-SERV-AS LLC "TRANSPORTATION COMPANY "LOGISTICS SERVICE",RU 64.28.145.0/24 AS4323 TWTC - tw telecom holdings, inc.,US 64.28.146.0/24 AS4323 TWTC - tw telecom holdings, inc.,US 64.234.239.0/24 AS55480 ISERVICES-HK I-Services Network Solution Ltd,HK 65.75.216.0/23 AS10494 AAI - Accurate Automation, Inc.,US 65.75.217.0/24 AS10494 AAI - Accurate Automation, Inc.,US 66.11.224.0/21 AS29873 BIZLAND-SD - The Endurance International Group, Inc.,US 66.11.234.0/24 AS29873 BIZLAND-SD - The Endurance International Group, Inc.,US 66.11.236.0/22 AS29873 BIZLAND-SD - The Endurance International Group, Inc.,US 66.59.192.0/19 AS17184 ATL-CBEYOND - CBEYOND COMMUNICATIONS, LLC,US 66.78.66.0/23 AS10835 VISIONARY - Visionary Communications, Inc.,US 66.78.68.0/22 AS10835 VISIONARY - Visionary Communications, Inc.,US 66.78.76.0/23 AS10835 VISIONARY - Visionary Communications, Inc.,US 66.78.80.0/21 AS10835 VISIONARY - Visionary Communications, Inc.,US 66.78.91.0/24 AS10835 VISIONARY - Visionary Communications, Inc.,US 66.180.64.0/21 AS32558 ZEUTER - Zeuter Development Corporation,CA 66.187.240.0/20 AS14552 ACS-SOUTHEASTDATACENTER - Affiliated Computer Services, Inc.,US 66.187.240.0/24 AS22753 REDHAT-0 - Red Hat, Inc.,US 66.205.224.0/19 AS16526 BIRCH-TELECOM - Birch Telecom, Inc.,US 66.228.160.0/20 AS7233 YAHOO-US - Yahoo,US 66.228.176.0/21 AS17110 YAHOO-US2 - Yahoo,US 66.251.128.0/24 AS33227 BLUEBRIDGE-NETWORKS - Blue Bridge Networks,US 66.251.133.0/24 AS33227 BLUEBRIDGE-NETWORKS - Blue Bridge Networks,US 66.251.134.0/24 AS33227 BLUEBRIDGE-NETWORKS - Blue Bridge Networks,US 66.251.136.0/21 AS33227 BLUEBRIDGE-NETWORKS - Blue Bridge Networks,US 66.251.140.0/24 AS33227 BLUEBRIDGE-NETWORKS - Blue Bridge Networks,US 66.251.141.0/24 AS33227 BLUEBRIDGE-NETWORKS - Blue Bridge Networks,US 66.251.142.0/24 AS33227 BLUEBRIDGE-NETWORKS - Blue Bridge Networks,US 68.234.0.0/19 AS40430 COLO4JAX-AS - colo4jax, LLC,US 68.234.0.0/20 AS40430 COLO4JAX-AS - colo4jax, LLC,US 68.234.5.0/24 AS40430 COLO4JAX-AS - colo4jax, LLC,US 68.234.7.0/24 AS40430 COLO4JAX-AS - colo4jax, LLC,US 68.234.16.0/20 AS40430 COLO4JAX-AS - colo4jax, LLC,US 68.234.16.0/24 AS40430 COLO4JAX-AS - colo4jax, LLC,US 68.234.17.0/24 AS40430 COLO4JAX-AS - colo4jax, LLC,US 68.234.18.0/24 AS40430 COLO4JAX-AS - colo4jax, LLC,US 68.234.19.0/24 AS40430 COLO4JAX-AS - colo4jax, LLC,US 68.234.20.0/24 AS40430 COLO4JAX-AS - colo4jax, LLC,US 68.234.21.0/24 AS40430 COLO4JAX-AS - colo4jax, LLC,US 68.234.22.0/24 AS40430 COLO4JAX-AS - colo4jax, LLC,US 68.234.23.0/24 AS40430 COLO4JAX-AS - colo4jax, LLC,US 68.234.24.0/22 AS40430 COLO4JAX-AS - colo4jax, LLC,US 68.234.26.0/24 AS40430 COLO4JAX-AS - colo4jax, LLC,US 68.234.28.0/24 AS40430 COLO4JAX-AS - colo4jax, LLC,US 68.234.29.0/24 AS40430 COLO4JAX-AS - colo4jax, LLC,US 69.24.96.0/20 AS26804 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 72.19.0.0/19 AS16526 BIRCH-TELECOM - Birch Telecom, Inc.,US 74.113.200.0/23 AS46939 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 74.114.52.0/22 AS40818 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 74.114.52.0/23 AS40818 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 74.114.52.0/24 AS40818 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 74.114.53.0/24 AS40818 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 74.114.54.0/23 AS40818 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 74.114.54.0/24 AS40818 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 74.114.55.0/24 AS40818 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 74.114.184.0/22 AS19888 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 74.123.136.0/21 AS53358 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 77.243.91.0/24 AS42597 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 80.78.133.0/24 AS16422 NEWSKIES-NETWORKS - New Skies Satellites, Inc.,US 80.78.134.0/23 AS16422 NEWSKIES-NETWORKS - New Skies Satellites, Inc.,US 80.78.134.0/24 AS16422 NEWSKIES-NETWORKS - New Skies Satellites, Inc.,US 80.78.135.0/24 AS16422 NEWSKIES-NETWORKS - New Skies Satellites, Inc.,US 91.103.8.0/24 AS42551 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 91.103.9.0/24 AS42551 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 91.103.10.0/24 AS42551 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 91.103.11.0/24 AS42551 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 91.193.60.0/22 AS3356 LEVEL3 - Level 3 Communications, Inc.,US 91.195.66.0/23 AS3356 LEVEL3 - Level 3 Communications, Inc.,US 91.197.36.0/22 AS43359 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 91.212.161.0/24 AS3356 LEVEL3 - Level 3 Communications, Inc.,US 91.213.220.0/24 AS19662 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 91.217.120.0/23 AS51563 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 98.143.160.0/24 AS17184 ATL-CBEYOND - CBEYOND COMMUNICATIONS, LLC,US 98.143.161.0/24 AS17184 ATL-CBEYOND - CBEYOND COMMUNICATIONS, LLC,US 98.143.162.0/24 AS17184 ATL-CBEYOND - CBEYOND COMMUNICATIONS, LLC,US 98.143.163.0/24 AS17184 ATL-CBEYOND - CBEYOND COMMUNICATIONS, LLC,US 98.143.164.0/24 AS17184 ATL-CBEYOND - CBEYOND COMMUNICATIONS, LLC,US 98.143.165.0/24 AS17184 ATL-CBEYOND - CBEYOND COMMUNICATIONS, LLC,US 98.143.166.0/24 AS17184 ATL-CBEYOND - CBEYOND COMMUNICATIONS, LLC,US 98.143.167.0/24 AS17184 ATL-CBEYOND - CBEYOND COMMUNICATIONS, LLC,US 98.143.168.0/22 AS17184 ATL-CBEYOND - CBEYOND COMMUNICATIONS, LLC,US 98.143.172.0/22 AS26566 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 98.143.172.0/24 AS17184 ATL-CBEYOND - CBEYOND COMMUNICATIONS, LLC,US 98.143.173.0/24 AS17184 ATL-CBEYOND - CBEYOND COMMUNICATIONS, LLC,US 98.143.174.0/24 AS17184 ATL-CBEYOND - CBEYOND COMMUNICATIONS, LLC,US 98.143.175.0/24 AS17184 ATL-CBEYOND - CBEYOND COMMUNICATIONS, LLC,US 100.100.1.0/24 AS9730 BHARTITELESONIC-AS-IN-AP Bharti Telesonic Ltd,IN 103.4.135.0/24 AS55548 103.9.132.0/22 AS20413 LOGISTIK-SERV-AS LLC "TRANSPORTATION COMPANY "LOGISTICS SERVICE",RU 103.9.156.0/22 AS20413 LOGISTIK-SERV-AS LLC "TRANSPORTATION COMPANY "LOGISTICS SERVICE",RU 103.10.44.0/22 AS20413 LOGISTIK-SERV-AS LLC "TRANSPORTATION COMPANY "LOGISTICS SERVICE",RU 103.10.172.0/22 AS20413 LOGISTIK-SERV-AS LLC "TRANSPORTATION COMPANY "LOGISTICS SERVICE",RU 103.10.236.0/22 AS20413 LOGISTIK-SERV-AS LLC "TRANSPORTATION COMPANY "LOGISTICS SERVICE",RU 103.11.16.0/22 AS23818 JETINTERNET JETINTERNET Corporation,JP 103.12.48.0/22 AS17676 GIGAINFRA Softbank BB Corp.,JP 103.12.241.0/24 AS7718 TRANSACT-SDN-AS TransACT Capital Communications Pty Limited,AU 103.12.247.0/24 AS13233 103.13.204.0/22 AS17676 GIGAINFRA Softbank BB Corp.,JP 103.15.92.0/22 AS23818 JETINTERNET JETINTERNET Corporation,JP 103.15.252.0/22 AS20413 LOGISTIK-SERV-AS LLC "TRANSPORTATION COMPANY "LOGISTICS SERVICE",RU 103.18.44.0/24 AS18351 MEDIAAKSES-AS PT Media Akses Global Indo, Internet Provider Jakarta,ID 103.18.45.0/24 AS18351 MEDIAAKSES-AS PT Media Akses Global Indo, Internet Provider Jakarta,ID 103.18.47.0/24 AS18351 MEDIAAKSES-AS PT Media Akses Global Indo, Internet Provider Jakarta,ID 103.20.100.0/24 AS10201 DWL-AS-IN Dishnet Wireless Limited. Broadband Wireless,IN 103.20.101.0/24 AS10201 DWL-AS-IN Dishnet Wireless Limited. Broadband Wireless,IN 103.20.219.0/24 AS55795 VERBDC1-AS-AP Verb Data Centre Pty Ltd,AU 103.22.212.0/22 AS23818 JETINTERNET JETINTERNET Corporation,JP 103.23.148.0/23 AS13209 103.23.148.0/24 AS13209 103.25.144.0/22 AS23818 JETINTERNET JETINTERNET Corporation,JP 103.29.90.0/23 AS9503 FX-PRIMARY-AS FX Networks Limited,AU 103.29.236.0/24 AS13200 103.29.237.0/24 AS13200 103.30.116.0/22 AS20413 LOGISTIK-SERV-AS LLC "TRANSPORTATION COMPANY "LOGISTICS SERVICE",RU 103.198.0.0/16 AS7497 CSTNET-AS-AP Computer Network Information Center,CN 103.199.0.0/16 AS7497 CSTNET-AS-AP Computer Network Information Center,CN 103.225.116.0/22 AS23818 JETINTERNET JETINTERNET Corporation,JP 103.229.152.0/22 AS13145 CPROCOLTD-AS-AP C-PRO CO., LTD.,KH 103.232.164.0/22 AS13145 CPROCOLTD-AS-AP C-PRO CO., LTD.,KH 103.233.140.0/23 AS55330 GCN-DCN-AS AFGHANTELECOM GOVERNMENT COMMUNICATION NETWORK,AF 103.235.72.0/23 AS17676 GIGAINFRA Softbank BB Corp.,JP 103.235.74.0/23 AS10015 CWJ-NET Cyber Wave Japan Co., Ltd.,JP 103.235.216.0/22 AS10021 KVH KVH Co.,Ltd,JP 103.237.76.0/22 AS10021 KVH KVH Co.,Ltd,JP 103.238.64.0/22 AS13272 SANYUNETCORP-JP 5-3 Miyuki-cho,JP 103.238.112.0/22 AS4766 KIXS-AS-KR Korea Telecom,KR 103.239.12.0/22 AS10021 KVH KVH Co.,Ltd,JP 103.239.64.0/22 AS10021 KVH KVH Co.,Ltd,JP 103.244.112.0/22 AS23818 JETINTERNET JETINTERNET Corporation,JP 103.248.88.0/22 AS23818 JETINTERNET JETINTERNET Corporation,JP 103.250.96.0/22 AS2514 INFOSPHERE NTT PC Communications, Inc.,JP 103.252.196.0/22 AS20413 LOGISTIK-SERV-AS LLC "TRANSPORTATION COMPANY "LOGISTICS SERVICE",RU 103.253.128.0/22 AS20413 LOGISTIK-SERV-AS LLC "TRANSPORTATION COMPANY "LOGISTICS SERVICE",RU 103.253.164.0/23 AS13317 116.199.203.0/24 AS38521 PISHON-AS-ID Pishon Wireless Teknologi, PT,ID 116.199.205.0/24 AS38521 PISHON-AS-ID Pishon Wireless Teknologi, PT,ID 116.199.206.0/24 AS38521 PISHON-AS-ID Pishon Wireless Teknologi, PT,ID 116.199.207.0/24 AS38521 PISHON-AS-ID Pishon Wireless Teknologi, PT,ID 116.206.72.0/24 AS6461 ABOVENET - Abovenet Communications, Inc,US 116.206.85.0/24 AS6461 ABOVENET - Abovenet Communications, Inc,US 116.206.103.0/24 AS6461 ABOVENET - Abovenet Communications, Inc,US 117.120.56.0/21 AS4755 TATACOMM-AS TATA Communications formerly VSNL is Leading ISP,IN 123.49.0.0/18 AS17494 123.49.5.0/24 AS17494 123.49.6.0/24 AS17494 123.49.8.0/24 AS17494 123.49.14.0/24 AS17494 123.49.16.0/20 AS17494 123.49.29.0/24 AS17494 123.49.30.0/24 AS17494 123.49.31.0/24 AS17494 142.147.62.0/24 AS3958 AIRCANADA - Air Canada,CA 154.168.28.0/23 AS29571 CITelecom-AS,CI 155.35.0.0/16 AS9418 CA-ASIAPAC-AS-AP Computer Associates Asia Pacific,AU 155.35.1.0/24 AS9418 CA-ASIAPAC-AS-AP Computer Associates Asia Pacific,AU 155.35.34.0/24 AS9418 CA-ASIAPAC-AS-AP Computer Associates Asia Pacific,AU 155.35.35.0/24 AS9418 CA-ASIAPAC-AS-AP Computer Associates Asia Pacific,AU 155.35.46.0/24 AS9418 CA-ASIAPAC-AS-AP Computer Associates Asia Pacific,AU 155.35.47.0/24 AS9418 CA-ASIAPAC-AS-AP Computer Associates Asia Pacific,AU 155.35.232.0/24 AS9418 CA-ASIAPAC-AS-AP Computer Associates Asia Pacific,AU 160.19.156.0/22 AS20413 LOGISTIK-SERV-AS LLC "TRANSPORTATION COMPANY "LOGISTICS SERVICE",RU 160.19.164.0/22 AS20413 LOGISTIK-SERV-AS LLC "TRANSPORTATION COMPANY "LOGISTICS SERVICE",RU 160.19.176.0/22 AS20413 LOGISTIK-SERV-AS LLC "TRANSPORTATION COMPANY "LOGISTICS SERVICE",RU 160.19.184.0/22 AS20413 LOGISTIK-SERV-AS LLC "TRANSPORTATION COMPANY "LOGISTICS SERVICE",RU 160.19.204.0/22 AS20413 LOGISTIK-SERV-AS LLC "TRANSPORTATION COMPANY "LOGISTICS SERVICE",RU 160.19.228.0/22 AS20413 LOGISTIK-SERV-AS LLC "TRANSPORTATION COMPANY "LOGISTICS SERVICE",RU 160.20.16.0/22 AS20413 LOGISTIK-SERV-AS LLC "TRANSPORTATION COMPANY "LOGISTICS SERVICE",RU 160.20.36.0/22 AS20413 LOGISTIK-SERV-AS LLC "TRANSPORTATION COMPANY "LOGISTICS SERVICE",RU 160.20.76.0/22 AS20413 LOGISTIK-SERV-AS LLC "TRANSPORTATION COMPANY "LOGISTICS SERVICE",RU 160.20.104.0/22 AS20413 LOGISTIK-SERV-AS LLC "TRANSPORTATION COMPANY "LOGISTICS SERVICE",RU 160.20.116.0/22 AS20413 LOGISTIK-SERV-AS LLC "TRANSPORTATION COMPANY "LOGISTICS SERVICE",RU 162.216.176.0/22 AS36114 VERSAWEB-ASN - Versaweb, LLC,US 162.221.64.0/21 AS40430 COLO4JAX-AS - colo4jax, LLC,US 162.221.64.0/22 AS40430 COLO4JAX-AS - colo4jax, LLC,US 162.221.68.0/22 AS40430 COLO4JAX-AS - colo4jax, LLC,US 162.222.128.0/21 AS36114 VERSAWEB-ASN - Versaweb, LLC,US 162.245.64.0/21 AS62788 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 162.248.224.0/21 AS62788 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 166.93.0.0/16 AS23537 CRITIGEN - Micro Source, Inc.,US 167.88.48.0/20 AS29927 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 172.102.0.0/22 AS4812 CHINANET-SH-AP China Telecom (Group),CN 173.45.192.0/20 AS62722 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 173.45.208.0/20 AS62722 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 173.249.191.0/24 AS45816 ISHK-AP I-Services Network Solution Limited,HK 175.45.180.0/22 AS20413 LOGISTIK-SERV-AS LLC "TRANSPORTATION COMPANY "LOGISTICS SERVICE",RU 175.158.100.0/22 AS20413 LOGISTIK-SERV-AS LLC "TRANSPORTATION COMPANY "LOGISTICS SERVICE",RU 179.51.248.0/22 AS20413 LOGISTIK-SERV-AS LLC "TRANSPORTATION COMPANY "LOGISTICS SERVICE",RU 180.211.128.0/17 AS17494 180.211.128.0/19 AS45588 180.211.160.0/19 AS45588 180.211.192.0/21 AS45588 180.211.208.0/24 AS45532 180.211.210.0/24 AS56031 180.211.213.0/24 AS63932 BCC-BD Bangladesh Computer Council,BD 180.211.214.0/23 AS56032 180.211.214.0/24 AS56032 180.211.215.0/24 AS56032 180.211.237.0/24 AS45588 180.211.238.0/24 AS45588 180.211.239.0/24 AS45588 180.211.240.0/24 AS45588 180.211.241.0/24 AS45588 180.211.242.0/24 AS45588 180.211.243.0/24 AS45588 180.211.244.0/24 AS45588 180.211.245.0/24 AS45588 180.211.246.0/24 AS45588 180.211.247.0/24 AS45588 180.211.248.0/21 AS45588 180.211.248.0/24 AS45588 180.222.120.0/21 AS23818 JETINTERNET JETINTERNET Corporation,JP 181.225.156.0/22 AS10834 Telefonica de Argentina,AR 182.50.68.0/22 AS20413 LOGISTIK-SERV-AS LLC "TRANSPORTATION COMPANY "LOGISTICS SERVICE",RU 183.78.176.0/22 AS20413 LOGISTIK-SERV-AS LLC "TRANSPORTATION COMPANY "LOGISTICS SERVICE",RU 185.17.98.0/23 AS19798 HILF-AS Hilf Telecom B.V.,NL 186.2.248.0/22 AS20413 LOGISTIK-SERV-AS LLC "TRANSPORTATION COMPANY "LOGISTICS SERVICE",RU 186.65.104.0/22 AS20413 LOGISTIK-SERV-AS LLC "TRANSPORTATION COMPANY "LOGISTICS SERVICE",RU 186.232.104.0/22 AS20413 LOGISTIK-SERV-AS LLC "TRANSPORTATION COMPANY "LOGISTICS SERVICE",RU 192.25.10.0/24 AS5714 HPES - Hewlett-Packard Company,US 192.25.11.0/24 AS5714 HPES - Hewlett-Packard Company,US 192.25.13.0/24 AS5714 HPES - Hewlett-Packard Company,US 192.25.14.0/24 AS5714 HPES - Hewlett-Packard Company,US 192.34.152.0/21 AS10835 VISIONARY - Visionary Communications, Inc.,US 192.52.144.0/22 AS20413 LOGISTIK-SERV-AS LLC "TRANSPORTATION COMPANY "LOGISTICS SERVICE",RU 192.67.160.0/24 AS55480 ISERVICES-HK I-Services Network Solution Ltd,HK 192.67.161.0/24 AS55480 ISERVICES-HK I-Services Network Solution Ltd,HK 192.75.239.0/24 AS23498 CDSI - COGECODATA,CA 192.84.24.0/24 AS4323 TWTC - tw telecom holdings, inc.,US 192.101.46.0/23 AS17139 NETRANGE - Corporate Colocation Inc.,US 192.101.70.0/24 AS701 UUNET - MCI Communications Services, Inc. d/b/a Verizon Business,US 192.101.71.0/24 AS701 UUNET - MCI Communications Services, Inc. d/b/a Verizon Business,US 192.101.72.0/24 AS702 UUNET - MCI Communications Services, Inc. d/b/a Verizon Business,US 192.124.252.0/22 AS680 DFN Verein zur Foerderung eines Deutschen Forschungsnetzes e.V.,DE 192.149.81.0/24 AS14454 PERIMETER-ESECURITY - Perimeter eSecurity,US 192.154.32.0/19 AS81 NCREN - MCNC,US 192.154.64.0/19 AS81 NCREN - MCNC,US 192.166.32.0/20 AS702 UUNET - MCI Communications Services, Inc. d/b/a Verizon Business,US 192.188.208.0/20 AS721 DNIC-ASBLK-00721-00726 - DoD Network Information Center,US 192.206.140.0/24 AS54926 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 192.206.141.0/24 AS54926 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 192.206.142.0/24 AS54926 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 192.206.143.0/24 AS54926 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 192.245.195.0/24 AS7381 SUNGARDRS - SunGard Availability Services LP,US 193.9.59.0/24 AS1257 TELE2,SE 193.16.106.0/24 AS31539 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 193.16.145.0/24 AS31392 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 193.22.86.0/24 AS24751 MULTIFI-AS Jakobstadsnejdens Telefon Ab,FI 193.22.224.0/20 AS6824 HERMES-NETWORK Hermes Telecom International Ltd,GB 193.26.213.0/24 AS31641 BYTEL-AS Bytel Ltd,GB 193.28.14.0/24 AS34309 LINK11 Link11 GmbH,DE 193.32.23.0/24 AS2856 BT-UK-AS BT Public Internet Service,GB 193.33.6.0/23 AS3356 LEVEL3 - Level 3 Communications, Inc.,US 193.33.252.0/23 AS3356 LEVEL3 - Level 3 Communications, Inc.,US 193.46.200.0/24 AS34243 WEBAGE Web Age Ltd,GB 193.56.203.0/24 AS51110 IDOMTECHNOLOGIES-AS IDOM TECHNOLOGIES,FR 193.111.229.0/24 AS3356 LEVEL3 - Level 3 Communications, Inc.,US 193.149.2.0/23 AS15919 INTERHOST Servicios de Hosting en Internet S.A.,ES 193.151.160.0/19 AS39906 COPROSYS CoProSys a.s.,CZ 193.164.152.0/24 AS3356 LEVEL3 - Level 3 Communications, Inc.,US 193.178.196.0/22 AS15657 SPEEDBONE-AS Speedbone Internet & Connectivity GmbH,DE 193.188.252.0/24 AS38968 TAGORG Abu-Ghazaleh Intellectual Property,JO 193.200.96.0/23 AS2828 XO-AS15 - XO Communications,US 193.200.130.0/24 AS21104 AM-NETSYS-AS Netsys JV LLC,AM 193.200.244.0/24 AS3356 LEVEL3 - Level 3 Communications, Inc.,US 193.201.244.0/24 AS702 UUNET - MCI Communications Services, Inc. d/b/a Verizon Business,US 193.201.245.0/24 AS702 UUNET - MCI Communications Services, Inc. d/b/a Verizon Business,US 193.201.246.0/24 AS702 UUNET - MCI Communications Services, Inc. d/b/a Verizon Business,US 193.202.8.0/21 AS6824 HERMES-NETWORK Hermes Telecom International Ltd,GB 193.223.103.0/24 AS8437 UTA-AS Tele2 Telecommunication GmbH,AT 193.227.109.0/24 AS3356 LEVEL3 - Level 3 Communications, Inc.,US 193.227.236.0/23 AS3356 LEVEL3 - Level 3 Communications, Inc.,US 194.6.252.0/24 AS21202 DCSNET-AS Bredband2 AB,SE 194.9.8.0/23 AS2863 SPRITELINK Centor AB,SE 194.9.8.0/24 AS2863 SPRITELINK Centor AB,SE 194.9.9.0/24 AS2863 SPRITELINK Centor AB,SE 194.39.78.0/23 AS702 UUNET - MCI Communications Services, Inc. d/b/a Verizon Business,US 194.49.17.0/24 AS13135 CREW-AS Wieske's Crew GmbH,DE 194.50.8.0/24 AS3356 LEVEL3 - Level 3 Communications, Inc.,US 194.60.88.0/21 AS5089 NTL Virgin Media Limited,GB 194.63.152.0/22 AS3356 LEVEL3 - Level 3 Communications, Inc.,US 194.76.224.0/24 AS34701 WITZENMANN-AS Witzenmann GmbH, Pforzheim,DE 194.76.225.0/24 AS34701 WITZENMANN-AS Witzenmann GmbH, Pforzheim,DE 194.88.6.0/24 AS35093 RO-HTPASSPORT High Tech Passport Ltd SUA California San Jose SUCURSALA BUCURESTI ROMANIA,RO 194.88.226.0/23 AS3356 LEVEL3 - Level 3 Communications, Inc.,US 194.99.67.0/24 AS9083 CARPENET carpeNet Information Technologies GmbH,DE 194.126.152.0/23 AS3356 LEVEL3 - Level 3 Communications, Inc.,US 194.126.233.0/24 AS31235 SKIWEBCENTER-AS SKIWEBCENTER SARL,FR 194.180.25.0/24 AS21358 ATOS-ORIGIN-DE-AS Atos Information Technology GmbH,DE 194.187.24.0/22 AS8856 UKRNET UkrNet Ltd.,UA 195.8.48.0/23 AS3356 LEVEL3 - Level 3 Communications, Inc.,US 195.8.48.0/24 AS3356 LEVEL3 - Level 3 Communications, Inc.,US 195.42.232.0/22 AS15657 SPEEDBONE-AS Speedbone Internet & Connectivity GmbH,DE 195.85.194.0/24 AS3356 LEVEL3 - Level 3 Communications, Inc.,US 195.85.201.0/24 AS3356 LEVEL3 - Level 3 Communications, Inc.,US 195.110.0.0/23 AS3356 LEVEL3 - Level 3 Communications, Inc.,US 195.128.240.0/23 AS21202 DCSNET-AS Bredband2 AB,SE 195.149.119.0/24 AS3356 LEVEL3 - Level 3 Communications, Inc.,US 195.189.174.0/23 AS3356 LEVEL3 - Level 3 Communications, Inc.,US 195.211.168.0/22 AS19738 TISA-SOFT-AS OOO "Tisa-Soft",RU 195.216.234.0/24 AS31309 NMV-AS New Media Ventures BVBA,BE 195.234.156.0/24 AS25028 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 195.242.182.0/24 AS3356 LEVEL3 - Level 3 Communications, Inc.,US 195.244.18.0/23 AS3356 LEVEL3 - Level 3 Communications, Inc.,US 196.3.180.0/24 AS37004 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 196.3.181.0/24 AS37004 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 196.3.182.0/24 AS37004 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 196.3.183.0/24 AS37004 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 196.22.11.0/24 AS16422 NEWSKIES-NETWORKS - New Skies Satellites, Inc.,US 198.8.72.0/21 AS40430 COLO4JAX-AS - colo4jax, LLC,US 198.8.72.0/22 AS40430 COLO4JAX-AS - colo4jax, LLC,US 198.8.76.0/24 AS40430 COLO4JAX-AS - colo4jax, LLC,US 198.8.77.0/24 AS40430 COLO4JAX-AS - colo4jax, LLC,US 198.8.78.0/24 AS40430 COLO4JAX-AS - colo4jax, LLC,US 198.8.79.0/24 AS40430 COLO4JAX-AS - colo4jax, LLC,US 198.22.195.0/24 AS54583 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 198.23.26.0/24 AS33052 VZUNET - Verizon Data Services LLC,US 198.51.4.0/22 AS20413 LOGISTIK-SERV-AS LLC "TRANSPORTATION COMPANY "LOGISTICS SERVICE",RU 198.73.226.0/23 AS62839 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 198.74.11.0/24 AS14573 KEYSPANENERGY-NE1 - Keyspan Energy,US 198.74.13.0/24 AS14573 KEYSPANENERGY-NE1 - Keyspan Energy,US 198.74.38.0/24 AS16966 SBCIDC-LSAN03 - AT&T Internet Services,US 198.74.39.0/24 AS16966 SBCIDC-LSAN03 - AT&T Internet Services,US 198.74.40.0/24 AS16966 SBCIDC-LSAN03 - AT&T Internet Services,US 198.91.44.0/22 AS40430 COLO4JAX-AS - colo4jax, LLC,US 198.91.44.0/24 AS40430 COLO4JAX-AS - colo4jax, LLC,US 198.91.45.0/24 AS40430 COLO4JAX-AS - colo4jax, LLC,US 198.91.46.0/24 AS40430 COLO4JAX-AS - colo4jax, LLC,US 198.91.47.0/24 AS40430 COLO4JAX-AS - colo4jax, LLC,US 198.97.72.0/21 AS721 DNIC-ASBLK-00721-00726 - DoD Network Information Center,US 198.97.96.0/19 AS721 DNIC-ASBLK-00721-00726 - DoD Network Information Center,US 198.97.240.0/20 AS721 DNIC-ASBLK-00721-00726 - DoD Network Information Center,US 198.163.214.0/24 AS21804 ACCESS-SK - Access Communications Co-operative Limited,CA 198.168.0.0/16 AS701 UUNET - MCI Communications Services, Inc. d/b/a Verizon Business,US 199.85.9.0/24 AS852 ASN852 - TELUS Communications Inc.,CA 199.88.52.0/22 AS17018 QTS-SACRAMENTO-1 - Quality Investment Properties Sacramento, LLC,US 199.102.240.0/24 AS18508 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 199.103.89.0/24 AS19523 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 199.116.200.0/21 AS22830 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 199.121.0.0/16 AS721 DNIC-ASBLK-00721-00726 - DoD Network Information Center,US 199.123.16.0/20 AS721 DNIC-ASBLK-00721-00726 - DoD Network Information Center,US 199.182.207.0/24 AS23136 ONX - OnX Enterprise Solutions Inc.,CA 199.233.87.0/24 AS33058 PEGASYSTEMS - Pegasystems Inc.,US 200.58.248.0/21 AS27849 200.81.48.0/24 AS11664 Techtel LMDS Comunicaciones Interactivas S.A.,AR 200.81.49.0/24 AS11664 Techtel LMDS Comunicaciones Interactivas S.A.,AR 201.131.5.0/24 AS28389 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 201.131.88.0/24 AS8151 Uninet S.A. de C.V.,MX 202.3.75.0/24 AS18172 202.3.76.0/24 AS18172 202.8.106.0/24 AS9530 SHINSEGAE-AS SHINSEGAE I&C Co., Ltd.,KR 202.44.48.0/22 AS20413 LOGISTIK-SERV-AS LLC "TRANSPORTATION COMPANY "LOGISTICS SERVICE",RU 202.45.10.0/23 AS24327 202.45.10.0/24 AS24327 202.45.11.0/24 AS24327 202.53.138.0/24 AS4058 CITICTEL-CPC-AS4058 CITIC Telecom International CPC Limited,HK 202.94.1.0/24 AS4808 CHINA169-BJ CNCGROUP IP network China169 Beijing Province Network,CN 202.122.134.0/24 AS38615 202.158.251.0/24 AS9255 CONNECTPLUS-AS Singapore Telecom,SG 202.179.134.0/24 AS23966 LDN-AS-PK LINKdotNET Telecom Limited,PK 203.6.208.0/24 AS23937 203.6.209.0/24 AS23937 203.6.210.0/24 AS23937 203.6.211.0/24 AS23937 203.6.213.0/24 AS23937 203.6.215.0/24 AS23937 203.112.192.0/19 AS17494 203.112.194.0/24 AS17494 203.112.200.0/24 AS17494 203.112.220.0/24 AS56031 203.112.221.0/24 AS56031 203.114.68.0/22 AS20413 LOGISTIK-SERV-AS LLC "TRANSPORTATION COMPANY "LOGISTICS SERVICE",RU 203.142.219.0/24 AS45149 203.175.11.0/24 AS9229 SPEEDCAST-AP SPEEDCAST Limited,HK 204.10.88.0/21 AS3356 LEVEL3 - Level 3 Communications, Inc.,US 204.15.208.0/22 AS13706 COMPLETEWEBNET - CompleteWeb.Net LLC,US 204.16.96.0/24 AS19972 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 204.16.97.0/24 AS19972 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 204.16.98.0/24 AS19972 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 204.16.99.0/24 AS19972 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 204.69.139.0/24 AS40250 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 204.69.144.0/24 AS27283 RJF-INTERNET - Raymond James Financial, Inc.,US 204.86.196.0/23 AS14372 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 204.86.198.0/23 AS33058 PEGASYSTEMS - Pegasystems Inc.,US 204.87.251.0/24 AS22217 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 204.106.16.0/24 AS4323 TWTC - tw telecom holdings, inc.,US 204.187.11.0/24 AS51113 ELEKTA-AS Elekta,GB 204.235.245.0/24 AS22613 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 205.137.240.0/20 AS11686 ENA - Education Networks of America,US 205.159.44.0/24 AS40157 ADESA-CORP-AS - ADESA Corp,US 205.166.231.0/24 AS7029 WINDSTREAM - Windstream Communications Inc,US 205.211.160.0/24 AS30045 UHN-ASN - University Health Network,CA 206.197.184.0/24 AS23304 DATOTEL-STL-AS - Datotel LLC, a NetLabs LLC Company,US 207.2.120.0/21 AS6221 USCYBERSITES - US Cybersites, Inc,US 207.174.131.0/24 AS26116 INDRA - Indra's Net Inc,US 207.174.132.0/23 AS26116 INDRA - Indra's Net Inc,US 207.174.152.0/23 AS26116 INDRA - Indra's Net Inc,US 207.174.154.0/24 AS26116 INDRA - Indra's Net Inc,US 207.174.155.0/24 AS26116 INDRA - Indra's Net Inc,US 207.174.200.0/24 AS22658 EARTHNET - Earthnet, Inc.,US 207.231.96.0/19 AS11194 NUNETPA - NuNet Inc.,US 207.254.128.0/21 AS30689 FLOW-NET - FLOW,JM 207.254.136.0/21 AS30689 FLOW-NET - FLOW,JM 208.66.64.0/24 AS16936 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 208.66.65.0/24 AS16936 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 208.66.66.0/24 AS16936 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 208.66.67.0/24 AS16936 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 208.67.132.0/22 AS701 UUNET - MCI Communications Services, Inc. d/b/a Verizon Business,US 208.73.40.0/22 AS19901 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 208.73.41.0/24 AS19901 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 208.74.12.0/23 AS209 CENTURYLINK-US-LEGACY-QWEST - Qwest Communications Company, LLC,US 208.75.152.0/21 AS32146 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 208.76.20.0/24 AS31812 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 208.76.21.0/24 AS31812 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 208.77.164.0/24 AS22659 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 208.77.166.0/24 AS4323 TWTC - tw telecom holdings, inc.,US 208.83.53.0/24 AS40569 YGOMI-AS - Ygomi LLC,US 208.84.232.0/24 AS33131 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 208.84.233.0/24 AS33131 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 208.84.234.0/24 AS33131 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 208.84.237.0/24 AS33131 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 208.84.238.0/24 AS33131 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 208.93.216.0/22 AS209 CENTURYLINK-US-LEGACY-QWEST - Qwest Communications Company, LLC,US 208.94.216.0/23 AS13629 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 208.94.219.0/24 AS13629 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 208.94.221.0/24 AS13629 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 208.94.223.0/24 AS13629 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 209.135.171.0/24 AS701 UUNET - MCI Communications Services, Inc. d/b/a Verizon Business,US 209.135.175.0/24 AS701 UUNET - MCI Communications Services, Inc. d/b/a Verizon Business,US 209.177.64.0/20 AS6461 ABOVENET - Abovenet Communications, Inc,US 209.193.112.0/20 AS209 CENTURYLINK-US-LEGACY-QWEST - Qwest Communications Company, LLC,US 209.234.112.0/23 AS32252 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 209.234.114.0/23 AS32252 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 209.234.116.0/24 AS32252 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 209.234.117.0/24 AS32252 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 209.234.118.0/24 AS32252 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 209.234.119.0/24 AS32252 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 209.234.120.0/24 AS32252 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 209.234.121.0/24 AS32252 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 209.234.122.0/24 AS32252 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 213.255.128.0/20 AS24863 LINKdotNET-AS,EG 213.255.144.0/20 AS24863 LINKdotNET-AS,EG 216.73.81.0/24 AS6432 DOUBLECLICK - Double Click, Inc.,US 216.73.82.0/24 AS6432 DOUBLECLICK - Double Click, Inc.,US 216.73.85.0/24 AS6432 DOUBLECLICK - Double Click, Inc.,US 216.73.88.0/24 AS6432 DOUBLECLICK - Double Click, Inc.,US 216.73.89.0/24 AS6432 DOUBLECLICK - Double Click, Inc.,US 216.73.94.0/24 AS6432 DOUBLECLICK - Double Click, Inc.,US 216.73.95.0/24 AS6432 DOUBLECLICK - Double Click, Inc.,US 216.146.0.0/19 AS11915 US-TELEPACIFIC - TelePacific Communications,US 216.152.24.0/22 AS22773 ASN-CXA-ALL-CCI-22773-RDC - Cox Communications Inc.,US 216.170.96.0/24 AS4565 MEGAPATH2-US - MegaPath Networks Inc.,US 216.170.101.0/24 AS4565 MEGAPATH2-US - MegaPath Networks Inc.,US 216.170.104.0/24 AS4565 MEGAPATH2-US - MegaPath Networks Inc.,US 216.170.105.0/24 AS4565 MEGAPATH2-US - MegaPath Networks Inc.,US 216.234.132.0/24 AS14545 ADR-DRIVING-RECORDS - AMERICAN DRIVING RECORDS, INC.,US 216.238.192.0/24 AS17184 ATL-CBEYOND - CBEYOND COMMUNICATIONS, LLC,US 216.238.193.0/24 AS17184 ATL-CBEYOND - CBEYOND COMMUNICATIONS, LLC,US 216.238.194.0/24 AS26566 -Reserved AS-,ZZ 216.238.196.0/22 AS17184 ATL-CBEYOND - CBEYOND COMMUNICATIONS, LLC,US 216.251.50.0/24 AS38191 INFOSYS-AS Infosys Technologies Ltd,IN 216.251.53.0/24 AS38191 INFOSYS-AS Infosys Technologies Ltd,IN 216.251.62.0/24 AS38191 INFOSYS-AS Infosys Technologies Ltd,IN 220.247.132.0/22 AS20413 LOGISTIK-SERV-AS LLC "TRANSPORTATION COMPANY "LOGISTICS SERVICE",RU 223.29.252.0/22 AS20413 LOGISTIK-SERV-AS LLC "TRANSPORTATION COMPANY "LOGISTICS SERVICE",RU Please see http://www.cidr-report.org for the full report ------------------------------------ Copies of this report are mailed to: nanog at nanog.org eof-list at ripe.net apops at apops.net routing-wg at ripe.net afnog at afnog.org From cidr-report at potaroo.net Fri Oct 9 22:00:01 2015 From: cidr-report at potaroo.net (cidr-report at potaroo.net) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 22:00:01 GMT Subject: BGP Update Report Message-ID: <201510092200.t99M01Me029352@wattle.apnic.net> BGP Update Report Interval: 01-Oct-15 -to- 08-Oct-15 (7 days) Observation Point: BGP Peering with AS131072 TOP 20 Unstable Origin AS Rank ASN Upds % Upds/Pfx AS-Name 1 - AS45025 598385 11.4% 31493.9 -- EDN-AS Online Technologies LTD,UA 2 - AS22561 243061 4.6% 1473.1 -- CENTURYLINK-LEGACY-LIGHTCORE - CenturyTel Internet Holdings, Inc.,US 3 - AS9829 191344 3.6% 144.6 -- BSNL-NIB National Internet Backbone,IN 4 - AS22059 141663 2.7% 47221.0 -- -Reserved AS-,ZZ 5 - AS21669 141179 2.7% 70589.5 -- NJ-STATEWIDE-LIBRARY-NETWORK - New Jersey State Library,US 6 - AS3709 68658 1.3% 2542.9 -- NET-CITY-SA - City of San Antonio,US 7 - AS8001 66845 1.3% 412.6 -- NET-ACCESS-CORP - Net Access Corporation,US 8 - AS12880 61034 1.2% 290.6 -- DCI-AS Information Technology Company (ITC),IR 9 - AS9752 53509 1.0% 6688.6 -- FKNET-IN Flipkart Internet Pvt Ltd,IN 10 - AS22047 51292 1.0% 10.5 -- VTR BANDA ANCHA S.A.,CL 11 - AS48159 47656 0.9% 134.2 -- TIC-AS Telecommunication Infrastructure Company,IR 12 - AS262401 45573 0.9% 893.6 -- GSTN DO BRASIL LTDA,BR 13 - AS17974 42011 0.8% 368.5 -- TELKOMNET-AS2-AP PT Telekomunikasi Indonesia,ID 14 - AS44244 41627 0.8% 396.4 -- IRANCELL-AS Iran Cell Service and Communication Company,IR 15 - AS59587 36313 0.7% 390.5 -- PJSCFARSTELECOMMUNICATIONCOMPANY PJSC "Fars Telecommunication Company",IR 16 - AS30295 31924 0.6% 10641.3 -- 2ICSYSTEMSINC - 2iC Systems Inc.,CA 17 - AS38447 27946 0.5% 27946.0 -- CBL-AS-AP CBL Group Content Service Provider AS for AP,AU 18 - AS56636 27759 0.5% 27759.0 -- ASVEDARU VEDA Ltd.,RU 19 - AS29256 27045 0.5% 281.7 -- INT-PDN-STE-AS Syrian Telecom,SY 20 - AS6147 19833 0.4% 37.3 -- Telefonica del Peru S.A.A.,PE TOP 20 Unstable Origin AS (Updates per announced prefix) Rank ASN Upds % Upds/Pfx AS-Name 1 - AS21669 141179 2.7% 70589.5 -- NJ-STATEWIDE-LIBRARY-NETWORK - New Jersey State Library,US 2 - AS22059 141663 2.7% 47221.0 -- -Reserved AS-,ZZ 3 - AS45025 598385 11.4% 31493.9 -- EDN-AS Online Technologies LTD,UA 4 - AS38447 27946 0.5% 27946.0 -- CBL-AS-AP CBL Group Content Service Provider AS for AP,AU 5 - AS56636 27759 0.5% 27759.0 -- ASVEDARU VEDA Ltd.,RU 6 - AS200671 18086 0.3% 18086.0 -- SKOK-JAWORZNO SKOK Jaworzno,PL 7 - AS30295 31924 0.6% 10641.3 -- 2ICSYSTEMSINC - 2iC Systems Inc.,CA 8 - AS37590 8228 0.2% 8228.0 -- BCA-ASN,AO 9 - AS40493 7884 0.1% 7884.0 -- FACILITYSOURCEINC - FacilitySource,US 10 - AS3708 7035 0.1% 7035.0 -- -Reserved AS-,ZZ 11 - AS9752 53509 1.0% 6688.6 -- FKNET-IN Flipkart Internet Pvt Ltd,IN 12 - AS13737 12616 0.2% 6308.0 -- RIVERFRONT - Riverfront Communications LLC,US 13 - AS3709 68658 1.3% 2542.9 -- NET-CITY-SA - City of San Antonio,US 14 - AS45349 6159 0.1% 2053.0 -- TFL-AS-AP Telecom Fiji Ltd,FJ 15 - AS38000 4074 0.1% 2037.0 -- CRISIL-AS [CRISIL Limited.Autonomous System],IN 16 - AS35093 3910 0.1% 1955.0 -- RO-HTPASSPORT High Tech Passport Ltd SUA California San Jose SUCURSALA BUCURESTI ROMANIA,RO 17 - AS29350 1882 0.0% 1882.0 -- IRPOST-QOM Iran Post Company,IR 18 - AS132378 1573 0.0% 1573.0 -- MERINO-IN 44KM Stone, Delhi-Rohtak Road,IN 19 - AS22561 243061 4.6% 1473.1 -- CENTURYLINK-LEGACY-LIGHTCORE - CenturyTel Internet Holdings, Inc.,US 20 - AS63996 2641 0.1% 1320.5 -- MNL-AS-AP Neamul Haque Khan t/a Mazeda Networks Limited,BD TOP 20 Unstable Prefixes Rank Prefix Upds % Origin AS -- AS Name 1 - 151.0.32.0/21 598160 11.0% AS45025 -- EDN-AS Online Technologies LTD,UA 2 - 162.104.200.0/24 235320 4.3% AS22561 -- CENTURYLINK-LEGACY-LIGHTCORE - CenturyTel Internet Holdings, Inc.,US 3 - 209.212.8.0/24 141177 2.6% AS21669 -- NJ-STATEWIDE-LIBRARY-NETWORK - New Jersey State Library,US 4 - 76.191.107.0/24 71052 1.3% AS22059 -- -Reserved AS-,ZZ 5 - 64.34.125.0/24 70610 1.3% AS22059 -- -Reserved AS-,ZZ 6 - 192.135.223.0/24 65021 1.2% AS8001 -- NET-ACCESS-CORP - Net Access Corporation,US 7 - 180.243.46.0/24 38752 0.7% AS17974 -- TELKOMNET-AS2-AP PT Telekomunikasi Indonesia,ID 8 - 203.84.132.0/24 27946 0.5% AS38447 -- CBL-AS-AP CBL Group Content Service Provider AS for AP,AU 9 - 195.128.159.0/24 27759 0.5% AS56636 -- ASVEDARU VEDA Ltd.,RU 10 - 177.36.132.0/24 22512 0.4% AS262401 -- GSTN DO BRASIL LTDA,BR 11 - 177.36.146.0/24 22083 0.4% AS262401 -- GSTN DO BRASIL LTDA,BR 12 - 155.133.79.0/24 18086 0.3% AS200671 -- SKOK-JAWORZNO SKOK Jaworzno,PL 13 - 105.96.0.0/22 15915 0.3% AS36947 -- ALGTEL-AS,DZ 14 - 163.53.78.0/24 13484 0.2% AS9752 -- FKNET-IN Flipkart Internet Pvt Ltd,IN 15 - 163.53.79.0/24 13404 0.2% AS9752 -- FKNET-IN Flipkart Internet Pvt Ltd,IN 16 - 163.53.78.0/23 13289 0.2% AS9752 -- FKNET-IN Flipkart Internet Pvt Ltd,IN 17 - 103.4.254.0/24 13208 0.2% AS9752 -- FKNET-IN Flipkart Internet Pvt Ltd,IN 18 - 216.150.230.0/24 12615 0.2% AS13737 -- RIVERFRONT - Riverfront Communications LLC,US 19 - 66.19.194.0/24 12569 0.2% AS6316 -- AS-PAETEC-NET - PaeTec Communications, Inc.,US 20 - 199.60.236.0/24 11407 0.2% AS30295 -- 2ICSYSTEMSINC - 2iC Systems Inc.,CA Details at http://bgpupdates.potaroo.net ------------------------------------ Copies of this report are mailed to: nanog at nanog.org eof-list at ripe.net apops at apops.net routing-wg at ripe.net afnog at afnog.org From Matthew.Black at csulb.edu Fri Oct 9 22:53:51 2015 From: Matthew.Black at csulb.edu (Matthew Black) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 22:53:51 +0000 Subject: IP-Echelon Compliance In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: If the IP addresses, hostnames, or domain names are not yours, why would you even bother responding? IANAL, I don't think it's your responsibility to direct them to the correct place. Consider an auto-responder directing them to the DMCA page of your corporate website. matthew black california state university, long beach -----Original Message----- From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces at nanog.org] On Behalf Of Baldur Norddahl Sent: Friday, October 09, 2015 1:00 PM To: nanog at nanog.org Subject: IP-Echelon Compliance Hi I am sure all of you know of these guys. But what do you do when they keep spamming your abuse address with reports for illegal downloads from IP-addresses that are in no way related to our business? I tried contacting them. And was told repeatedly that I had to update whois information if I want the reports to be sent to another address. How I do that for IP-ranges that are not mine is a good question. Besides the whois information for said IP-ranges already have valid abuse information and it is not our email address. Do I just block them for spamming? Regards, Baldur From fred at web2objects.com Sat Oct 10 00:07:20 2015 From: fred at web2objects.com (Fred Hollis) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2015 02:07:20 +0200 Subject: IP-Echelon Compliance In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <561856B8.7030100@web2objects.com> Oh, interesting you have the same? We receive thousands of these complains on daily basis that are not related to any of our IPs. Of course we contacted them... but never got a response. On 09.10.2015 at 22:00 Baldur Norddahl wrote: > Hi > > I am sure all of you know of these guys. But what do you do when they keep > spamming your abuse address with reports for illegal downloads from > IP-addresses that are in no way related to our business? > > I tried contacting them. And was told repeatedly that I had to update whois > information if I want the reports to be sent to another address. How I do > that for IP-ranges that are not mine is a good question. Besides the whois > information for said IP-ranges already have valid abuse information and it > is not our email address. > > Do I just block them for spamming? > > Regards, > > Baldur > From eric.kuhnke at gmail.com Sat Oct 10 01:49:49 2015 From: eric.kuhnke at gmail.com (Eric Kuhnke) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 18:49:49 -0700 Subject: IP-Echelon Compliance In-Reply-To: <20151009214011.GA23885@gsp.org> References: <20151009214011.GA23885@gsp.org> Message-ID: Nothing could possibly go wrong with turning loose a poorly coded software tool to make automated legal threats in the most litigious nation on earth. On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 2:40 PM, Rich Kulawiec wrote: > On Fri, Oct 09, 2015 at 10:00:19PM +0200, Baldur Norddahl wrote: > > Do I just block them for spamming? > > Yes, since that's what they're doing. > > Consider: they're sending email. It's unsolicited (you did not ask for > it by confirmed/closed-loop subscription). And it's bulk: these are not > individual messages, they're auto-generated and primarily consist of > identical boilerplate. Thus, unsolicited bulk email, thus spam (since > that's the canonical definition). > > ---rsk > From eric.kuhnke at gmail.com Sat Oct 10 01:56:50 2015 From: eric.kuhnke at gmail.com (Eric Kuhnke) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 18:56:50 -0700 Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: References: <20151004.164120.41639562.sthaug@nethelp.no> <18661688-294A-4662-8380-DF6C2C490E6F@beckman.org> <20151007140011.18E063A0FA32@rock.dv.isc.org> <56166C30.3070501@matthew.at> <561699F3.1070600@tiedyenetworks.com> <20151008214123.95C343A1BC03@rock.dv.isc.org> <5616F212.8030706@tiedyenetworks.com> <20151008232550.GA22470@mis10.towardex.com> Message-ID: As Jeremy has described in detail, the problem is at OSI layer 1. Not a lack of peering exchanges such as the VANIX. There is no dark fiber route from Alaska via the Yukon to Vancouver. I know where most of the Telus (ILEC) and Northwestel (Bell) fiber is in northern BC and none of interconnects with Alaska. Network topologically all locations in Alaska which are fiber fed via the existing submarine cable routes (not on geostationary C/Ku-band satellite) are a suburb of Seattle. Imagine an island with a population of about 600,000 people located somewhere in Puget Sound with various DWDM circuits that have their other ends in the Westin Building. Various IP transit, peering, transport and IX connections at that location. Other satellite fed singlehomed locations in Alaska can be logically just about anywhere thanks to the way bent-pipe relay via geostationary transponders work. There's at least a couple of dozen large teleports in the US 48 states with 7.3m and larger C-band dishes that support two way TDMA and SCPC services into Alaska. In such case the sites are indistinguishable from very low bandwidth singlehomed FDD microwave sites which happen to have at minimum 495ms latency. On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 1:04 PM, Owen DeLong wrote: > > > On Oct 8, 2015, at 11:24 PM, Jeremy Austin wrote: > > > > On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 3:25 PM, James Jun wrote: > > > >> > >> If you want choices in your transit providers, you should get a > transport > >> circuit (dark, wave or EPL) to a nearby carrier hotel/data center. Once > >> you do that, you will suddenly find that virtually almost everyone in > the > >> competitive IP transit market will provide you with dual-stacked > IPv4/IPv6 > >> service. > >> > > > > The future is here, but it isn't evenly distributed yet. I'm in North > > America, but there are no IXPs in my *state*, let alone in my *continent* > > -- from an undersea fiber perspective. There is no truly competitive IP > > transit market within Alaska that I am aware of. Would love to be proved > > wrong. Heck, GCI and ACS (the two providers with such fiber) only > directly > > peered a handful of years ago. > > Alaska is in the same continent as Canda and the Contiguous US. > > VANIX (Vancouver), CIX (Calgary), Manitoba-IX (Winnipeg), WPGIX > (WInnipeg), TORIX (Toronto), > and an exchange in Montreal (I forget the name) exist as well as a few > others in Canada (I think > there?s even one out in the maritimes). > > There are tons of exchanges all over the contiguous US. > > I?m surprised that there isn?t yet an exchange point in Juneau or > Anchorage, but that > does, indeed, appear to be the case. Perhaps you should work with some > other ISPs > in your state to form one. > > According to this: > http://www.alaskaunited.com > > There is subsea fiber to several points in AK from Seattle and beyond. > > And on a continental basis, quite a bit of undersea fiber in other landing > stations > around the coastal areas of the contiguous 48. > > >> If you are buying DIA circuit from some $isp to your rural location that > >> you call "head-end" and are expecting to receive a competitive service, > >> and support for IPv6, well, then your expectations are either > unreasonable, > >> ignorant or both. > >> > > > > Interestingly both statewide providers *do* provide both IPv4 and IPv6 > > peering. The trick is to find a spot where there's true price > competition. > > The 3 largest statewide ISPs have fiber that meets a mere three city > blocks > > from one of my POPs, but there's no allowable IX. I'm looking at you, > AT&T. > > I?m not sure what you mean by ?allowable IX?, to the best of my knowledge, > anyone > can build an IX anywhere. > > Owen > > > From toddunder at gmail.com Sat Oct 10 20:51:49 2015 From: toddunder at gmail.com (Todd Underwood) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2015 16:51:49 -0400 Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: References: <20151004.164120.41639562.sthaug@nethelp.no> <18661688-294A-4662-8380-DF6C2C490E6F@beckman.org> <20151007140011.18E063A0FA32@rock.dv.isc.org> <56166C30.3070501@matthew.at> <561699F3.1070600@tiedyenetworks.com> <20151008214123.95C343A1BC03@rock.dv.isc.org> <5616F212.8030706@tiedyenetworks.com> <20151008232550.GA22470@mis10.towardex.com> Message-ID: In general, most of NANOG recipients live in the populated metros and know very little about what it's like to try to provide internet access in the hinterlands. do not pay attention to there magical claims of 'just connect to some IX and everything will be fine'. you already know that that's not how the internet in the rural west works. it's fine. smile and nod and pretend that they are making sensible claims and move back to trying to figure out how to make things work on your own network. cheers, t On Oct 10, 2015 2:43 PM, "Eric Kuhnke" wrote: > As Jeremy has described in detail, the problem is at OSI layer 1. Not a > lack of peering exchanges such as the VANIX. There is no dark fiber route > from Alaska via the Yukon to Vancouver. > > I know where most of the Telus (ILEC) and Northwestel (Bell) fiber is in > northern BC and none of interconnects with Alaska. > > Network topologically all locations in Alaska which are fiber fed via the > existing submarine cable routes (not on geostationary C/Ku-band satellite) > are a suburb of Seattle. Imagine an island with a population of about > 600,000 people located somewhere in Puget Sound with various DWDM circuits > that have their other ends in the Westin Building. Various IP transit, > peering, transport and IX connections at that location. > > Other satellite fed singlehomed locations in Alaska can be logically just > about anywhere thanks to the way bent-pipe relay via geostationary > transponders work. There's at least a couple of dozen large teleports in > the US 48 states with 7.3m and larger C-band dishes that support two way > TDMA and SCPC services into Alaska. In such case the sites are > indistinguishable from very low bandwidth singlehomed FDD microwave sites > which happen to have at minimum 495ms latency. > > > > On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 1:04 PM, Owen DeLong wrote: > > > > > > On Oct 8, 2015, at 11:24 PM, Jeremy Austin wrote: > > > > > > On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 3:25 PM, James Jun wrote: > > > > > >> > > >> If you want choices in your transit providers, you should get a > > transport > > >> circuit (dark, wave or EPL) to a nearby carrier hotel/data center. > Once > > >> you do that, you will suddenly find that virtually almost everyone in > > the > > >> competitive IP transit market will provide you with dual-stacked > > IPv4/IPv6 > > >> service. > > >> > > > > > > The future is here, but it isn't evenly distributed yet. I'm in North > > > America, but there are no IXPs in my *state*, let alone in my > *continent* > > > -- from an undersea fiber perspective. There is no truly competitive IP > > > transit market within Alaska that I am aware of. Would love to be > proved > > > wrong. Heck, GCI and ACS (the two providers with such fiber) only > > directly > > > peered a handful of years ago. > > > > Alaska is in the same continent as Canda and the Contiguous US. > > > > VANIX (Vancouver), CIX (Calgary), Manitoba-IX (Winnipeg), WPGIX > > (WInnipeg), TORIX (Toronto), > > and an exchange in Montreal (I forget the name) exist as well as a few > > others in Canada (I think > > there?s even one out in the maritimes). > > > > There are tons of exchanges all over the contiguous US. > > > > I?m surprised that there isn?t yet an exchange point in Juneau or > > Anchorage, but that > > does, indeed, appear to be the case. Perhaps you should work with some > > other ISPs > > in your state to form one. > > > > According to this: > > http://www.alaskaunited.com > > > > There is subsea fiber to several points in AK from Seattle and beyond. > > > > And on a continental basis, quite a bit of undersea fiber in other > landing > > stations > > around the coastal areas of the contiguous 48. > > > > >> If you are buying DIA circuit from some $isp to your rural location > that > > >> you call "head-end" and are expecting to receive a competitive > service, > > >> and support for IPv6, well, then your expectations are either > > unreasonable, > > >> ignorant or both. > > >> > > > > > > Interestingly both statewide providers *do* provide both IPv4 and IPv6 > > > peering. The trick is to find a spot where there's true price > > competition. > > > The 3 largest statewide ISPs have fiber that meets a mere three city > > blocks > > > from one of my POPs, but there's no allowable IX. I'm looking at you, > > AT&T. > > > > I?m not sure what you mean by ?allowable IX?, to the best of my > knowledge, > > anyone > > can build an IX anywhere. > > > > Owen > > > > > > > From morrowc.lists at gmail.com Sun Oct 11 01:32:45 2015 From: morrowc.lists at gmail.com (Christopher Morrow) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2015 21:32:45 -0400 Subject: IP-Echelon Compliance In-Reply-To: References: <20151009214011.GA23885@gsp.org> Message-ID: On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 9:49 PM, Eric Kuhnke wrote: > Nothing could possibly go wrong with turning loose a poorly coded software > tool to make automated legal threats in the most litigious nation on earth. you'd think, but they've been doing this for nigh on 8 yrs at least at this point. From jhaustin at gmail.com Sun Oct 11 20:17:26 2015 From: jhaustin at gmail.com (Jeremy Austin) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2015 12:17:26 -0800 Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: References: <20151004.164120.41639562.sthaug@nethelp.no> <18661688-294A-4662-8380-DF6C2C490E6F@beckman.org> <20151007140011.18E063A0FA32@rock.dv.isc.org> <56166C30.3070501@matthew.at> <561699F3.1070600@tiedyenetworks.com> <20151008214123.95C343A1BC03@rock.dv.isc.org> <5616F212.8030706@tiedyenetworks.com> <20151008232550.GA22470@mis10.towardex.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 12:51 PM, Todd Underwood wrote: > > you already know that that's not how the internet in the rural west works. > it's fine. smile and nod and pretend that they are making sensible claims > and move back to trying to figure out how to make things work on your own > network. > Thank you, Todd. While I must take some exception to your use of the word 'hinterlands' [1] rather than 'frontier', you're right on the mark everywhere else. :) With all the talk around updating BCPs, perhaps we also need IUPs -- Interesting Uncommon Practices: the edge cases which contrast to, but do not invalidate, the middle. -J [1] Kleinfeld, "The Frontier Romance" http://www.newsminer.com/features/sundays/book_reviews/kleinfeld-s-book-explores-the-romance-of-the-frontier/article_57da7bda-e15c-11e2-9281-0019bb30f31a.html From htj at nordu.net Mon Oct 12 08:57:20 2015 From: htj at nordu.net (Henrik Thostrup Jensen) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 10:57:20 +0200 (CEST) Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: References: <20151004.164120.41639562.sthaug@nethelp.no> <18661688-294A-4662-8380-DF6C2C490E6F@beckman.org> <20151007140011.18E063A0FA32@rock.dv.isc.org> <56166C30.3070501@matthew.at> <561699F3.1070600@tiedyenetworks.com> <20151008214123.95C343A1BC03@rock.dv.isc.org> <5616F212.8030706@tiedyenetworks.com> <20151008232550.GA22470@mis10.towardex.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 9 Oct 2015, Jeremy Austin wrote: > Juneau, I'm not so surprised; how many other cities that small and isolated > have IXes? I'm curious. It's an interesting prospect, at least for some > value of $location. Several small cities in Sweden have IXes. Not sure than any of them are quite as small as Juneau, but some (Bor?s, Lule?, Sundsvall) are sub 100k people, and other cities (Ume?, Uppsala) are just over 100k inhabitants. Ume? and Lule? are releativly isolated - at least by European standards. Most of these are probably just a switch or two, and are probably there to provide better quality of service, and not because it makes for a good business. Best regards, Henrik Henrik Thostrup Jensen Software Developer, NORDUnet From joelja at bogus.com Mon Oct 12 14:33:42 2015 From: joelja at bogus.com (joel jaeggli) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 07:33:42 -0700 Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: References: <20151004.164120.41639562.sthaug@nethelp.no> <18661688-294A-4662-8380-DF6C2C490E6F@beckman.org> <20151007140011.18E063A0FA32@rock.dv.isc.org> <56166C30.3070501@matthew.at> <561699F3.1070600@tiedyenetworks.com> <20151008214123.95C343A1BC03@rock.dv.isc.org> <5616F212.8030706@tiedyenetworks.com> <20151008232550.GA22470@mis10.towardex.com> Message-ID: <561BC4C6.7060104@bogus.com> On 10/12/15 1:57 AM, Henrik Thostrup Jensen wrote: > On Fri, 9 Oct 2015, Jeremy Austin wrote: > >> Juneau, I'm not so surprised; how many other cities that small and >> isolated >> have IXes? I'm curious. It's an interesting prospect, at least for some >> value of $location. > > Several small cities in Sweden have IXes. Not sure than any of them are > quite as small as Juneau, but some (Bor?s, Lule?, Sundsvall) are sub > 100k people, and other cities (Ume?, Uppsala) are just over 100k > inhabitants. Ume? and Lule? are releativly isolated - at least by > European standards. > > Most of these are probably just a switch or two, and are probably there > to provide better quality of service, and not because it makes for a > good business. Sweden's IX infrastructure is not entirely unique but are certainly borne out of a particular set of circumstances and public private partnerships that don't generally exist elsewhere. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netnod > > Best regards, Henrik > > Henrik Thostrup Jensen > Software Developer, NORDUnet > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 229 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From toddunder at gmail.com Mon Oct 12 15:23:31 2015 From: toddunder at gmail.com (Todd Underwood) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 11:23:31 -0400 Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: <561BC4C6.7060104@bogus.com> References: <20151004.164120.41639562.sthaug@nethelp.no> <18661688-294A-4662-8380-DF6C2C490E6F@beckman.org> <20151007140011.18E063A0FA32@rock.dv.isc.org> <56166C30.3070501@matthew.at> <561699F3.1070600@tiedyenetworks.com> <20151008214123.95C343A1BC03@rock.dv.isc.org> <5616F212.8030706@tiedyenetworks.com> <20151008232550.GA22470@mis10.towardex.com> <561BC4C6.7060104@bogus.com> Message-ID: it's also not entirely obvious what the point of having local IXes that serve these kinds of collections of people. how much inter-ASN traffic is there generally for a city of 100k people, even if they all have 1Gb/s connections? are they all torrenting, accessing local business web pages that are hosted locally, streaming video from local streaming caches? if a local IX is a good place for a llnw, akamai, ggc, netflix cache node, i can see it, but that's about it. t On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 10:33 AM, joel jaeggli wrote: > On 10/12/15 1:57 AM, Henrik Thostrup Jensen wrote: >> On Fri, 9 Oct 2015, Jeremy Austin wrote: >> >>> Juneau, I'm not so surprised; how many other cities that small and >>> isolated >>> have IXes? I'm curious. It's an interesting prospect, at least for some >>> value of $location. >> >> Several small cities in Sweden have IXes. Not sure than any of them are >> quite as small as Juneau, but some (Bor?s, Lule?, Sundsvall) are sub >> 100k people, and other cities (Ume?, Uppsala) are just over 100k >> inhabitants. Ume? and Lule? are releativly isolated - at least by >> European standards. >> >> Most of these are probably just a switch or two, and are probably there >> to provide better quality of service, and not because it makes for a >> good business. > > Sweden's IX infrastructure is not entirely unique but are certainly > borne out of a particular set of circumstances and public private > partnerships that don't generally exist elsewhere. > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netnod > >> >> Best regards, Henrik >> >> Henrik Thostrup Jensen >> Software Developer, NORDUnet >> > > From jabley at hopcount.ca Mon Oct 12 15:44:22 2015 From: jabley at hopcount.ca (Joe Abley) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 11:44:22 -0400 Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: References: <20151004.164120.41639562.sthaug@nethelp.no> <18661688-294A-4662-8380-DF6C2C490E6F@beckman.org> <20151007140011.18E063A0FA32@rock.dv.isc.org> <56166C30.3070501@matthew.at> <561699F3.1070600@tiedyenetworks.com> <20151008214123.95C343A1BC03@rock.dv.isc.org> <5616F212.8030706@tiedyenetworks.com> <20151008232550.GA22470@mis10.towardex.com> <561BC4C6.7060104@bogus.com> Message-ID: On 12 Oct 2015, at 11:23, Todd Underwood wrote: > it's also not entirely obvious what the point of having local IXes > that serve these kinds of collections of people. I think that's true. But I don't think it's always the case this means there is no point. When Citylink (incubated by the City Council) started stringing fibre around central Wellington, New Zealand and building fast ethernet access into buildings in the mid-90s it wasn't obvious what benefit that would give anybody at a time when most of the country was hanging off a collection of E1 half-circuit leases to the west-coast US. But it led to a cottage industry in teleworking, off-site data storage, digital print shops and video conferencing in the city that would not have been possible otherwise. What Citylink built was part access network, part exchange, but to their credit they didn't spend too much time worrying about what to call what they were building: they just built it. Part of keeping the network stupid is giving people at the edge room to innovate. Sometimes when you build it, they come. Joe From colton.conor at gmail.com Mon Oct 12 15:47:42 2015 From: colton.conor at gmail.com (Colton Conor) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 10:47:42 -0500 Subject: GPON Optical Levels Message-ID: We are deploying our first GPON network, and are trying to get a sense of what is a good optical level per ONT. The equipment install guide says the following: Measure the levels of the 1550 dBm and 1490 dBm receive optical inputs using an optical power meter. The input range should be between -27.0 dBm to -8 dBm. Attached are the measurements I can see and graph from the ONT side. Trying to get a sense of what range we would graph as good (green) measured within the clear, what we could consider yellow as working but out of optimal range, and what we could consider poor (red) range. What about the Laser Bias Current, Optics Module Voltage, and Optics Module temperature? From royce at techsolvency.com Mon Oct 12 15:48:55 2015 From: royce at techsolvency.com (Royce Williams) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 07:48:55 -0800 Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: References: <20151004.164120.41639562.sthaug@nethelp.no> <18661688-294A-4662-8380-DF6C2C490E6F@beckman.org> <20151007140011.18E063A0FA32@rock.dv.isc.org> <56166C30.3070501@matthew.at> <561699F3.1070600@tiedyenetworks.com> <20151008214123.95C343A1BC03@rock.dv.isc.org> <5616F212.8030706@tiedyenetworks.com> <20151008232550.GA22470@mis10.towardex.com> <561BC4C6.7060104@bogus.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 7:23 AM, Todd Underwood wrote: > > it's also not entirely obvious what the point of having local IXes > that serve these kinds of collections of people. > > how much inter-ASN traffic is there generally for a city of 100k > people, even if they all have 1Gb/s connections? are they all > torrenting, accessing local business web pages that are hosted > locally, streaming video from local streaming caches? if a local IX > is a good place for a llnw, akamai, ggc, netflix cache node, i can see > it, but that's about it. They are microcosms of larger areas - think gamers, B2B, local support/RDP, etc. When there's ~25ms extra latency ANC<->SEA, every little bit helps. It also lets us function locally when there are major external outages. Finally, there's a psychological benefit. It drove me nuts to have my traffic shipped to Seattle to end up literally one block away. :) It's like when I tracked my Macbook from China -- stopping briefly in its palletized/containerized form in Anchorage on its way to Kentucky (UPS distribution), and then back to Anchorage ... days later. :) Royce From colton.conor at gmail.com Mon Oct 12 15:57:58 2015 From: colton.conor at gmail.com (Colton Conor) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 10:57:58 -0500 Subject: GPON Optical Levels In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Here is the link to the attachment as it looks like the list does not allow uploading attachment: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7sFULLCnLvFdllHQUl6dnJfZ00/view?usp=sharing On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 10:47 AM, Colton Conor wrote: > We are deploying our first GPON network, and are trying to get a sense of > what is a good optical level per ONT. The equipment install guide says the > following: > > Measure the levels of the 1550 dBm and 1490 dBm receive optical inputs > using > > an optical power meter. The input range should be between -27.0 dBm to -8 > > dBm. > > > Attached are the measurements I can see and graph from the ONT side. > Trying to get a sense of what range we would graph as good > (green) measured within the clear, what we could consider yellow as working > but out of optimal range, and what we could consider poor (red) range. > > > What about the Laser Bias Current, Optics Module Voltage, and Optics > Module temperature? > > From Daniel.Jameson at tdstelecom.com Mon Oct 12 16:25:38 2015 From: Daniel.Jameson at tdstelecom.com (Jameson, Daniel) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 16:25:38 +0000 Subject: GPON Optical Levels In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: A good general rule of thumb for optics is +-4. Try to stay 4 db off the bottom, and 4db off the top. The sweet-spot RSL is between 1/2 and 2/3 of the optical budget. For PON, typical OLT/ONT optics run Receive Max of -8, and Min of -27 with an optical de-assert at -31. The sweet-spot is between -17 and -20, with a min/max of -12 to -23. A typical PON system will have a TX power between +3 and +5, with a 32 way split, add 15dB of insertion loss. You should see -12 on the output of the first splitter (less the optical loss of the fiber between the OLT and the Splitter est .3/km) There should never be a need to attenuate a PON port unless you're working directly on the OLT (You should work through a splitter even directly in the CO/HE) -----Original Message----- From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces at nanog.org] On Behalf Of Colton Conor Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 10:58 AM To: NANOG Subject: Re: GPON Optical Levels Here is the link to the attachment as it looks like the list does not allow uploading attachment: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7sFULLCnLvFdllHQUl6dnJfZ00/view?usp=sharing On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 10:47 AM, Colton Conor wrote: > We are deploying our first GPON network, and are trying to get a sense > of what is a good optical level per ONT. The equipment install guide > says the > following: > > Measure the levels of the 1550 dBm and 1490 dBm receive optical inputs > using > > an optical power meter. The input range should be between -27.0 dBm to > -8 > > dBm. > > > Attached are the measurements I can see and graph from the ONT side. > Trying to get a sense of what range we would graph as good > (green) measured within the clear, what we could consider yellow as > working but out of optimal range, and what we could consider poor (red) range. > > > What about the Laser Bias Current, Optics Module Voltage, and Optics > Module temperature? > > From morrowc.lists at gmail.com Mon Oct 12 17:15:21 2015 From: morrowc.lists at gmail.com (Christopher Morrow) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 13:15:21 -0400 Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: References: <20151004.164120.41639562.sthaug@nethelp.no> <18661688-294A-4662-8380-DF6C2C490E6F@beckman.org> <20151007140011.18E063A0FA32@rock.dv.isc.org> <56166C30.3070501@matthew.at> <561699F3.1070600@tiedyenetworks.com> <20151008214123.95C343A1BC03@rock.dv.isc.org> <5616F212.8030706@tiedyenetworks.com> <20151008232550.GA22470@mis10.towardex.com> <561BC4C6.7060104@bogus.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 11:23 AM, Todd Underwood wrote: > it's also not entirely obvious what the point of having local IXes > that serve these kinds of collections of people. > one might consider that localized services or peer-to-peer traffic might not want to burden the long-haul links, for the cost of a 1g or 10g port on a local switch/router. this conversation is sort of like the ipv6 part earlier though... 'if people want to do this, cool! if they don't or can't for $REASONS also cool.' > how much inter-ASN traffic is there generally for a city of 100k > people, even if they all have 1Gb/s connections? are they all > torrenting, accessing local business web pages that are hosted > locally, streaming video from local streaming caches? if a local IX > is a good place for a llnw, akamai, ggc, netflix cache node, i can see > it, but that's about it. it's not clear that a flix cache would rate showing up at an IX in (for example) juneau... though it'd sure be interesting to know the share of traffic your 4 exemplars contribute to the overall longhaul traffic mix. > t > > On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 10:33 AM, joel jaeggli wrote: >> On 10/12/15 1:57 AM, Henrik Thostrup Jensen wrote: >>> On Fri, 9 Oct 2015, Jeremy Austin wrote: >>> >>>> Juneau, I'm not so surprised; how many other cities that small and >>>> isolated >>>> have IXes? I'm curious. It's an interesting prospect, at least for some >>>> value of $location. >>> >>> Several small cities in Sweden have IXes. Not sure than any of them are >>> quite as small as Juneau, but some (Bor?s, Lule?, Sundsvall) are sub >>> 100k people, and other cities (Ume?, Uppsala) are just over 100k >>> inhabitants. Ume? and Lule? are releativly isolated - at least by >>> European standards. >>> >>> Most of these are probably just a switch or two, and are probably there >>> to provide better quality of service, and not because it makes for a >>> good business. >> >> Sweden's IX infrastructure is not entirely unique but are certainly >> borne out of a particular set of circumstances and public private >> partnerships that don't generally exist elsewhere. >> >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netnod >> >>> >>> Best regards, Henrik >>> >>> Henrik Thostrup Jensen >>> Software Developer, NORDUnet >>> >> >> From toddunder at gmail.com Mon Oct 12 17:19:40 2015 From: toddunder at gmail.com (Todd Underwood) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 13:19:40 -0400 Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: References: <20151004.164120.41639562.sthaug@nethelp.no> <18661688-294A-4662-8380-DF6C2C490E6F@beckman.org> <20151007140011.18E063A0FA32@rock.dv.isc.org> <56166C30.3070501@matthew.at> <561699F3.1070600@tiedyenetworks.com> <20151008214123.95C343A1BC03@rock.dv.isc.org> <5616F212.8030706@tiedyenetworks.com> <20151008232550.GA22470@mis10.towardex.com> <561BC4C6.7060104@bogus.com> Message-ID: all, On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 1:15 PM, Christopher Morrow wrote: > On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 11:23 AM, Todd Underwood wrote: >> it's also not entirely obvious what the point of having local IXes >> that serve these kinds of collections of people. >> > > this conversation is sort of like the ipv6 part earlier though... 'if > people want to do this, cool! if they don't or can't for $REASONS also > cool.' oh, for sure. anyone who wants to should, of course. i'm just pointing out (in opposition to the drumbeat of "MOAR IXes EVERYWHERE!!!" message) that IXes are often not that useful and people should critically evaluate whether they need one and would benefit from the cost. so far, the "coolness", "psychological", "possible future industry" benefits are all cited. that's fine. but there's often zero business case for an IX outside of major fibre confluences. t From morrowc.lists at gmail.com Mon Oct 12 17:27:59 2015 From: morrowc.lists at gmail.com (Christopher Morrow) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 13:27:59 -0400 Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: References: <20151004.164120.41639562.sthaug@nethelp.no> <18661688-294A-4662-8380-DF6C2C490E6F@beckman.org> <20151007140011.18E063A0FA32@rock.dv.isc.org> <56166C30.3070501@matthew.at> <561699F3.1070600@tiedyenetworks.com> <20151008214123.95C343A1BC03@rock.dv.isc.org> <5616F212.8030706@tiedyenetworks.com> <20151008232550.GA22470@mis10.towardex.com> <561BC4C6.7060104@bogus.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 1:19 PM, Todd Underwood wrote: > all, > > On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 1:15 PM, Christopher Morrow > wrote: >> On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 11:23 AM, Todd Underwood wrote: >>> it's also not entirely obvious what the point of having local IXes >>> that serve these kinds of collections of people. >>> >> >> this conversation is sort of like the ipv6 part earlier though... 'if >> people want to do this, cool! if they don't or can't for $REASONS also >> cool.' > > oh, for sure. anyone who wants to should, of course. > > i'm just pointing out (in opposition to the drumbeat of "MOAR IXes > EVERYWHERE!!!" message) that IXes are often not that useful and people > should critically evaluate whether they need one and would benefit > from the cost. sure... folk in a position to do so might want to look at their netflow/etc data and decide to where they send/receive the most traffic, if it's their neighbor consider saying: "Howdy neighbor! how about we uncongest our longhaul and send these bits over a local ethernet? Oh! jane's also in the mix, let's get together on a hp switch and win!" > so far, the "coolness", "psychological", "possible future industry" > benefits are all cited. that's fine. but there's often zero business > case for an IX outside of major fibre confluences. 'major' perhaps depends on your perspective here, right? Sure, in Chicago where boatloads of east/west (and some North/South) fiber shares conduit it sure seems clearly a win to have an IX there... but I bet if you have 1g to SEA from ANK... losing 200mbps to crappy-gammer-uturn traffic would be nice to avoid too, eh? Or hell email even... anyway, sure more numbers and metrics and thought seems like a good plan, just like in the v6 discussion earlier. From mike-nanog at tiedyenetworks.com Mon Oct 12 17:49:52 2015 From: mike-nanog at tiedyenetworks.com (Mike) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 10:49:52 -0700 Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: References: <7E645C67-2F5C-4CA0-9C0E-1BA41AF24ABC@delong.com> <20151004.164120.41639562.sthaug@nethelp.no> <18661688-294A-4662-8380-DF6C2C490E6F@beckman.org> <20151007140011.18E063A0FA32@rock.dv.isc.org> <56166C30.3070501@matthew.at> <561699F3.1070600@tiedyenetworks.com> <20151008214123.95C343A1BC03@rock.dv.isc.org> <5616F212.8030706@tiedyenetworks.com> Message-ID: <561BF2C0.50908@tiedyenetworks.com> On 10/09/2015 05:22 AM, Lee Howard wrote: > NO, THERE IS NOT. We operate in rural and underserved areas and WE DO > NOT HAVE realistic choices. Can you see me from your ivory tower? > I looked up tiedyenetworks.com, and I think he?s 100 miles from Sacramento. > I hope some sales person from a transit provider is giving him a call right > now, but it?s entirely possible that there are no big providers in his > neighborhood. Sorry, Mike, wish I could help you there. Thats not even the half of it. My personal heroics in solving the connectivity problem here, is that we became a CLEC in order to take the bull on by the short and curlys and build facilities. But the problem is even bigger than just getting dark fiber strands and collocating in a few select telco offices; My entire county is woefully underserved. Connectivity here is expensive as all hell. So on top of the nearly $1mln now sunk in this part of the venture, I am STILL looking at several more $$mln to build out of this dank hole and connect up at those carrier hotels in the far off fantasy world where connectivity options abound. > It sounds like you do have some concern about the transition, and you > know there?s a bug, at least with OS downloads. Please do report those > issues you know about. Usually, Happy Eyeballs masks problems in dual > stack, whether that?s good or bad. If we can get your upstream(s) to > support IPv6, then maybe we can leverage them to help troubleshoot MTU > problems, so you don?t have to spend a lot of time on them. Or maybe > they go away when you?re no longer tunnelling. No, the problem is that v6 isn't ready for prime time. Period. >>> I can't remember the last time I saw a site stall due to reaching it >>> over IPv6 it is that long ago. >> It happens every day for me, which only amplifies my perception that v6 >> IS NOT READY FOR PRIME TIME. > Would you at least keep a list of places you have these problems, even if > you never follow up on it? Again, I?m wondering if tunnelling is the > problem, and once you have native dual-stack, you could refer to the list > and see if problems just dry up. No, the problem is that v6 isn't ready for prime time, period. Im not going to consider rolling it out to my customers until the point comes where it stops going down and stops malfunctioning and stops being 'a problem' that has to be dealt with by disabling the v6 stack on the afflicted host. Until then, it's going to continue to be treated as academic masturbation likely to be replaced with something competently designed based on technical merits alone. >>>> Damm maddening. Can't imagine the screaming I'll >>>> hear if a home user ever ran into similar so I am quite gun shy about >>>> the prospect. Secondly, the the dodgy nature of the CPE connected to >>>> our >>>> network and the terminally buggy fw they all run is sure to be a never >>>> ending source of stupidity. >>> CPE devices are buggy for IPv4 as well. Bugs in CPE devices are >>> only found and fixed if the code paths are exercised. >> Not my job. v4 works, v6 does not. I am a provider not a developer. > I would guess it is your job in IPv4. > I would also guess, based on gateways I?ve seen, than 10% of CPE > has critical IPv4 bugs, and 25% of CPE has critical Ipv6 bugs. I agree with > you that the difference is too high, and maybe waiting a year helps get > those ratios aligned. > > CPE vendors: step it up! I think the major pain points in CPE gear is really less than 'ipv4' bugs and more just bad design in general. They 'lock up' and stop forwarding, requiring end users to 'power cycle' the equipment in order to attain functionality again. And, they still stupidly have a 'reset' button, which users still think will help them when it's "locked up" but in fact simply "wipes out required settings", causing further problems for the poor hapless user. They are quite big on shiny flashing lights and starship or battle ship shaped plastic housings, but long term reliability is about as good as trusting v6 for anything, which is to say they are not trustworthy at all. > > > Figure out how long until you think you really need all of your customers > to have IPv6. Subtract your CPE replacement time. Start replacing CPE then. > e.g., if users need IPv6 in 2018, and you replace all CPE on a 5 year > schedule, you should begin providing IPv6-capable CPE in 2013. > Again, requires me to be a developer and not a provider. Working CPE do not exist yet. >>>> Thirdly, some parts of my network are >>>> wireless, and multicast is a huge, huge problem on wireless (the 802.11 >>>> varities anyways). The forwarding rates for multicast are sickeningly >>>> low for many brand of gear - yes, it's at the bottom of the barrel no >>>> matter how good or hot your signal is - and I honestly expect v6 to >>>> experience enough disruption over wireless as to render it unusable for >>>> exactly this reason alone. >>> You expect but haven't tested. >> Based on observation and experience, I think v6 will wipe out the 802.11 >> portion of my network and no, Im not going to 'test' it, recovery would >> be near impossible and in any event I don't experiment with paying >> customers. I won't move until the underlaying issues are resolved, and >> that means fixing multicast in wireless, which won't be done by me again >> because, you guessed it, I am a provider and not a developer. > This might help: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-v6ops-reducing-ra-energy-consumption > -02 > Cisco has done some presentations on their use of IPv6 over WiFi at Cisco > Live > and other venues. For instance, > http://www.rmv6tf.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/5-2013-04-17-RMv6TF-kreddy > -02.pdf > > Might be able to mitigate with configuration. > No, it's not going to help. v6 over current wireless doesn't work for the reasons that multicast is a gaping hole. I've previously counseled others on why OSPF over wireless doesn't work reliably and it comes also down to multicast (It CAN work, if you use NBMA however). And thats with just two speakers trying to use multicast. Imagine 30+ end user stations all using multicast, I know it's certain death. So again, we would have to treat the wireless subscriber portion differently than we treat the wired. I don't want to be a developer and I have no interest in fixing this situation; I want the developers of this gear to fix it and later, when I see the problems are all gone, then I will think about v6 for those users. > It makes sense to me that you would want to wait another year. An ISP > of your size doesn?t have the support staff to troubleshoot new > problems. I do hope you?ll keep an eye on deployments, and at least be > thinking in terms of deploying next year (e.g., by buying gear that at > least claims IPv6 support, thinking about what monitoring you need to > keep an eye on it as you deploy), so that when you do start, you have > an easier time of it. Lee Right, you understand exactly. I want to only deploy to my end users what I know works. Internally yes I am experamenting but there will not be v6 reacing my customers until these and other problems are solved by the manufacturers. Mike From baldur.norddahl at gmail.com Mon Oct 12 20:46:59 2015 From: baldur.norddahl at gmail.com (Baldur Norddahl) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 22:46:59 +0200 Subject: GPON Optical Levels In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 12 October 2015 at 18:25, Jameson, Daniel wrote: > There should never be a need to attenuate a PON port unless you're working > directly on the OLT (You should work through a splitter even directly in > the CO/HE) > Here is a small secret: If you attenuate the PON port so the signal level at the OLT is as low as possible, your network will be more robust against people connecting P2P fiber media converters to your network. This is because these devices typically have TX power that is significantly less than your ONUs. By attenuate the signal you can bring the rogue signal below the detection threshold of the OLT. In my experience one way to do this is to always use 1:128 splits. Even if you are only going to connect less than 32 ONUs, you will find that 1:128 can be more robust. In fact I discovered this little trick after we started using 1:128 splits (for flexibility, not because we actually connect that many clients). Because the fiber plant is shared with other service providers, we used to have OLT crashes due to people connecting a media converter they got from another service provider. I found that we had zero of these issues where we had 1:128 splits. Btw we use class C+ optics. This might work out differently if you have class B optics. Regards, Baldur From baldur.norddahl at gmail.com Mon Oct 12 21:25:17 2015 From: baldur.norddahl at gmail.com (Baldur Norddahl) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 23:25:17 +0200 Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: <561BF2C0.50908@tiedyenetworks.com> References: <7E645C67-2F5C-4CA0-9C0E-1BA41AF24ABC@delong.com> <20151004.164120.41639562.sthaug@nethelp.no> <18661688-294A-4662-8380-DF6C2C490E6F@beckman.org> <20151007140011.18E063A0FA32@rock.dv.isc.org> <56166C30.3070501@matthew.at> <561699F3.1070600@tiedyenetworks.com> <20151008214123.95C343A1BC03@rock.dv.isc.org> <5616F212.8030706@tiedyenetworks.com> <561BF2C0.50908@tiedyenetworks.com> Message-ID: On 12 October 2015 at 19:49, Mike wrote: > No, it's not going to help. v6 over current wireless doesn't work for the > reasons that multicast is a gaping hole. Why is IPv6 multicast any different than IPv4 broadcast (required for ARP and many other things)? If you run without MLD snooping IPv6 multicast is implemented as broadcast at the layer 2 level, so it should behave exactly the same. You also have the option of using something like 6RD so you avoid IPv6 in your backbone entirely. Or use MPLS for the same effect. Regards, Baldur From Lee at asgard.org Mon Oct 12 21:31:31 2015 From: Lee at asgard.org (Lee Howard) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 17:31:31 -0400 Subject: /27 the new /24 In-Reply-To: <561BF2C0.50908@tiedyenetworks.com> References: <7E645C67-2F5C-4CA0-9C0E-1BA41AF24ABC@delong.com> <20151004.164120.41639562.sthaug@nethelp.no> <18661688-294A-4662-8380-DF6C2C490E6F@beckman.org> <20151007140011.18E063A0FA32@rock.dv.isc.org> <56166C30.3070501@matthew.at> <561699F3.1070600@tiedyenetworks.com> <20151008214123.95C343A1BC03@rock.dv.isc.org> <5616F212.8030706@tiedyenetworks.com> <561BF2C0.50908@tiedyenetworks.com> Message-ID: On 10/12/15, 1:49 PM, "NANOG on behalf of Mike" wrote: > >Thats not even the half of it. > >My personal heroics in solving the connectivity problem here, is that we >became a CLEC in order to take the bull on by the short and curlys and >build facilities. But the problem is even bigger than just getting dark >fiber strands and collocating in a few select telco offices; My entire >county is woefully underserved. Connectivity here is expensive as all >hell. So on top of the nearly $1mln now sunk in this part of the >venture, I am STILL looking at several more $$mln to build out of this >dank hole and connect up at those carrier hotels in the far off fantasy >world where connectivity options abound. You have my sympathies. Which gets you nothing but consolation. > >> It sounds like you do have some concern about the transition, and you >> know there?s a bug, at least with OS downloads. Please do report those >> issues you know about. Usually, Happy Eyeballs masks problems in dual >> stack, whether that?s good or bad. If we can get your upstream(s) to >> support IPv6, then maybe we can leverage them to help troubleshoot MTU >> problems, so you don?t have to spend a lot of time on them. Or maybe >> they go away when you?re no longer tunnelling. > >No, the problem is that v6 isn't ready for prime time. Period. That statement is too broad. Lots of companies are using IPv6 in prime time. There may be some features with some bugs. I don?t know how we shake those out if people don?t try those features and report the bugs. > >>>> I can't remember the last time I saw a site stall due to reaching it >>>> over IPv6 it is that long ago. >>> It happens every day for me, which only amplifies my perception that v6 >>> IS NOT READY FOR PRIME TIME. >> Would you at least keep a list of places you have these problems, even >>if >> you never follow up on it? Again, I?m wondering if tunnelling is the >> problem, and once you have native dual-stack, you could refer to the >>list >> and see if problems just dry up. > >No, the problem is that v6 isn't ready for prime time, period. Im not >going to consider rolling it out to my customers until the point comes >where it stops going down and stops malfunctioning and stops being 'a >problem' that has to be dealt with by disabling the v6 stack on the >afflicted host. Until then, it's going to continue to be treated as >academic masturbation likely to be replaced with something competently >designed based on technical merits alone. IPv4 malfunctions, too. I haven?t seen anything to suggest that IPv6 is less robust than IPv4. One does have to climb the learning curve and develop support processes, but that?s true with anything, including IPv4. >>>>> Damm maddening. Can't imagine the screaming I'll >>>>> hear if a home user ever ran into similar so I am quite gun shy about >>>>> the prospect. Secondly, the the dodgy nature of the CPE connected to >>>>> our >>>>> network and the terminally buggy fw they all run is sure to be a >>>>>never >>>>> ending source of stupidity. >>>> CPE devices are buggy for IPv4 as well. Bugs in CPE devices are >>>> only found and fixed if the code paths are exercised. >>> Not my job. v4 works, v6 does not. I am a provider not a developer. >> I would guess it is your job in IPv4. >> I would also guess, based on gateways I?ve seen, than 10% of CPE >> has critical IPv4 bugs, and 25% of CPE has critical Ipv6 bugs. I agree >>with >> you that the difference is too high, and maybe waiting a year helps get >> those ratios aligned. >> >> CPE vendors: step it up! > >I think the major pain points in CPE gear is really less than 'ipv4' >bugs and more just bad design in general. They 'lock up' and stop >forwarding, requiring end users to 'power cycle' the equipment in order >to attain functionality again. And, they still stupidly have a 'reset' >button, which users still think will help them when it's "locked up" but >in fact simply "wipes out required settings", causing further problems >for the poor hapless user. They are quite big on shiny flashing lights >and starship or battle ship shaped plastic housings, but long term >reliability is about as good as trusting v6 for anything, which is to >say they are not trustworthy at all. So, CPE is buggy and sucks. I wish there was money to be made in delivering quality CPE code. >> >> Figure out how long until you think you really need all of your >>customers >> to have IPv6. Subtract your CPE replacement time. Start replacing CPE >>then. >> e.g., if users need IPv6 in 2018, and you replace all CPE on a 5 year >> schedule, you should begin providing IPv6-capable CPE in 2013. >> > >Again, requires me to be a developer and not a provider. Working CPE do >not exist yet. You said above that you thought that CPE reliability is as good as IPv6. There are quite a few models that work as well with IPv6 as IPv4. But not all. But I didn?t ask you to be a developer here, I suggested you be a planner. If you think you?ll want to provide your users with IPv6 within 5 years, you should be providing IPv6-capable equipment now, even if you don?t enable IPv6 yet. Otherwise, when you do start, you?ll have to make up the difference. And do report those bugs, or they?ll never get fixed! Lee From D.Lasher at f5.com Mon Oct 12 23:45:29 2015 From: D.Lasher at f5.com (Donn Lasher) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 23:45:29 +0000 Subject: IPv6 Irony. Message-ID: Having just returned from NANOG65/ARIN36, and hearing about how far IPv6 has come.. I find my experience with support today Ironic. Oh wait.. Hi, my name is Donn, and I?m speaking for? myself. Irony is a cable provider, one of the largest, and earliest adopters of IPv6, having ZERO IPv6 support available via phone, chat, or email. And being pointed, by all of those contact methods, to a single website. A static website. In 2015, when IPv4 is officially exhausted. :sigh: From cb.list6 at gmail.com Tue Oct 13 03:17:30 2015 From: cb.list6 at gmail.com (Ca By) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 20:17:30 -0700 Subject: IPv6 Irony. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Monday, October 12, 2015, Donn Lasher wrote: > > Having just returned from NANOG65/ARIN36, and hearing about how far IPv6 > has come.. I find my experience with support today > Ironic. > > Oh wait.. > > Hi, my name is Donn, and I?m speaking for? myself. > > Irony is a cable provider, one of the largest, and earliest adopters of > IPv6, having ZERO IPv6 support available via phone, chat, or email. And > being pointed, by all of those contact methods, to a single website. A > static website. In 2015, when IPv4 is officially exhausted. > > :sigh: > > > Tech support websites are long tail Pragmatists are focused on getting ipv6 to the masses by default in high traffic use cases. Sighing about edge cases in the long tail with ipv6 ... Not sure what you expect. CB From seth at ip-echelon.com Mon Oct 12 22:04:35 2015 From: seth at ip-echelon.com (Seth Arnold) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 15:04:35 -0700 Subject: IP-Echelon Compliance Message-ID: <008ED77F-18AF-4AA6-9C18-613ACAEA1155@ip-echelon.com> Hi All, Please feel free to get in touch with us to request changes. Expedited processing of your requests is offered through the Notice Recipient Management for ISPs section of our website located here: http://www.ip-echelon.com/isp-notice-management/ If you are in the U.S., please also ensure that your change is reflected in the records of the US Copyright Office: http://copyright.gov/onlinesp/list/a_agents.html Cheers, Seth -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 842 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: From bjorn at mork.no Tue Oct 13 09:03:45 2015 From: bjorn at mork.no (=?utf-8?Q?Bj=C3=B8rn_Mork?=) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 11:03:45 +0200 Subject: IP-Echelon Compliance In-Reply-To: <008ED77F-18AF-4AA6-9C18-613ACAEA1155@ip-echelon.com> (Seth Arnold's message of "Mon, 12 Oct 2015 15:04:35 -0700") References: <008ED77F-18AF-4AA6-9C18-613ACAEA1155@ip-echelon.com> Message-ID: <87r3kzw366.fsf@nemi.mork.no> Seth Arnold writes: > Please feel free to get in touch with us to request changes. > > Expedited processing of your requests is offered through the Notice Recipient Management for ISPs section of our website located here: > http://www.ip-echelon.com/isp-notice-management/ Are you serious? You receive spam and then you go to a link provided by the spammer, entering your contact information into a web form? I don't think so... Take it with their upstream abuse contact instead. Bj?rn From fred at web2objects.com Tue Oct 13 09:10:36 2015 From: fred at web2objects.com (Fred Hollis) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 11:10:36 +0200 Subject: IP-Echelon Compliance In-Reply-To: <008ED77F-18AF-4AA6-9C18-613ACAEA1155@ip-echelon.com> References: <008ED77F-18AF-4AA6-9C18-613ACAEA1155@ip-echelon.com> Message-ID: <561CCA8C.9000701@web2objects.com> At least, we tried contacting you many times, but you ignored all our requests. Still receiving thousands of e-mails not related to our IPs on daily basis. On 13.10.2015 at 00:04 Seth Arnold wrote: > Hi All, > > Please feel free to get in touch with us to request changes. > > Expedited processing of your requests is offered through the Notice Recipient Management for ISPs section of our website located here: > http://www.ip-echelon.com/isp-notice-management/ > > If you are in the U.S., please also ensure that your change is reflected in the records of the US Copyright Office: http://copyright.gov/onlinesp/list/a_agents.html > > > Cheers, > Seth > From maxtul at netassist.ua Tue Oct 13 09:56:51 2015 From: maxtul at netassist.ua (Max Tulyev) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 12:56:51 +0300 Subject: IPv6 Irony. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <561CD563.3070707@netassist.ua> On our network, we had to spent times more money in people than in hardware. Customer support, especially network troubleshootings and so on... So upgrade hardware and network admins are NOT sufficient for IPv6 adoption ;) On 13.10.15 06:17, Ca By wrote: > On Monday, October 12, 2015, Donn Lasher wrote: > >> >> Having just returned from NANOG65/ARIN36, and hearing about how far IPv6 >> has come.. I find my experience with support today >> Ironic. >> >> Oh wait.. >> >> Hi, my name is Donn, and I?m speaking for? myself. >> >> Irony is a cable provider, one of the largest, and earliest adopters of >> IPv6, having ZERO IPv6 support available via phone, chat, or email. And >> being pointed, by all of those contact methods, to a single website. A >> static website. In 2015, when IPv4 is officially exhausted. >> >> :sigh: >> >> >> > Tech support websites are long tail > > Pragmatists are focused on getting ipv6 to the masses by default in > high traffic use cases. > > Sighing about edge cases in the long tail with ipv6 ... Not sure what you > expect. > > outtages> > > CB > From list at satchell.net Tue Oct 13 10:22:10 2015 From: list at satchell.net (Stephen Satchell) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 03:22:10 -0700 Subject: IPv6 Irony. In-Reply-To: <561CD563.3070707@netassist.ua> References: <561CD563.3070707@netassist.ua> Message-ID: <561CDB52.80107@satchell.net> On 10/13/2015 02:56 AM, Max Tulyev wrote: > So upgrade hardware and network admins are NOT sufficient for IPv6 > adoption;) Was that a typo? Didn't you have to upgrade your network admins, too? From maxtul at netassist.ua Tue Oct 13 10:50:54 2015 From: maxtul at netassist.ua (Max Tulyev) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 13:50:54 +0300 Subject: IPv6 Irony. In-Reply-To: <561CDB52.80107@satchell.net> References: <561CD563.3070707@netassist.ua> <561CDB52.80107@satchell.net> Message-ID: <561CE20E.7080700@netassist.ua> Well, especially our copmany hire admins already familiar with IPv6. But yes, some of our friends company had to upgrade admins too. On 13.10.15 13:22, Stephen Satchell wrote: > On 10/13/2015 02:56 AM, Max Tulyev wrote: >> So upgrade hardware and network admins are NOT sufficient for IPv6 >> adoption;) > > Was that a typo? Didn't you have to upgrade your network admins, too? > > From contact at winterei.se Tue Oct 13 11:11:55 2015 From: contact at winterei.se (Paul S.) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 20:11:55 +0900 Subject: IPv6 Irony. In-Reply-To: <561CD563.3070707@netassist.ua> References: <561CD563.3070707@netassist.ua> Message-ID: <561CE6FB.3050704@winterei.se> Anyone in a network administrator position struggling with IPv6 (and not willing to fix that out of their own initiative) has no business running any network. You should hire better staff. On 10/13/2015 06:56 PM, Max Tulyev wrote: > On our network, we had to spent times more money in people than in hardware. > > Customer support, especially network troubleshootings and so on... > > So upgrade hardware and network admins are NOT sufficient for IPv6 > adoption ;) > > On 13.10.15 06:17, Ca By wrote: >> On Monday, October 12, 2015, Donn Lasher wrote: >> >>> Having just returned from NANOG65/ARIN36, and hearing about how far IPv6 >>> has come.. I find my experience with support today >>> Ironic. >>> >>> Oh wait.. >>> >>> Hi, my name is Donn, and I?m speaking for? myself. >>> >>> Irony is a cable provider, one of the largest, and earliest adopters of >>> IPv6, having ZERO IPv6 support available via phone, chat, or email. And >>> being pointed, by all of those contact methods, to a single website. A >>> static website. In 2015, when IPv4 is officially exhausted. >>> >>> :sigh: >>> >>> >>> >> Tech support websites are long tail >> >> Pragmatists are focused on getting ipv6 to the masses by default in >> high traffic use cases. >> >> Sighing about edge cases in the long tail with ipv6 ... Not sure what you >> expect. >> >> > outtages> >> >> CB >> From f at zz.de Tue Oct 13 13:06:53 2015 From: f at zz.de (Florian Lohoff) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 15:06:53 +0200 Subject: GPON Optical Levels In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20151013130653.GB30362@pax.zz.de> On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 10:46:59PM +0200, Baldur Norddahl wrote: > Here is a small secret: If you attenuate the PON port so the signal level > at the OLT is as low as possible, your network will be more robust against > people connecting P2P fiber media converters to your network. This is > because these devices typically have TX power that is significantly less > than your ONUs. By attenuate the signal you can bring the rogue signal > below the detection threshold of the OLT. > > In my experience one way to do this is to always use 1:128 splits. Even if > you are only going to connect less than 32 ONUs, you will find that 1:128 > can be more robust. In fact I discovered this little trick after we started > using 1:128 splits (for flexibility, not because we actually connect that > many clients). Because the fiber plant is shared with other service Wouldnt a 1:32 splitter + a 9dB attenuation be the same? From the price/performance the 1:128 splitter should be much more expensive. We have seen happening the same converting a former p2p footprint to GPON and somebody got a left over p2p device connected. But this was a single incident so far. Flo -- Florian Lohoff f at zz.de We need to self-defend - GnuPG/PGP enable your email today! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 828 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From nanog at ics-il.net Tue Oct 13 14:17:14 2015 From: nanog at ics-il.net (Mike Hammett) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 09:17:14 -0500 (CDT) Subject: IP-Echelon Compliance In-Reply-To: <87r3kzw366.fsf@nemi.mork.no> Message-ID: <1753065143.15451.1444745892327.JavaMail.mhammett@ThunderFuck> So even when they give an avenue to resolve the issue, people still complain... *sigh* ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bj?rn Mork" To: nanog at nanog.org Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2015 4:03:45 AM Subject: Re: IP-Echelon Compliance Seth Arnold writes: > Please feel free to get in touch with us to request changes. > > Expedited processing of your requests is offered through the Notice Recipient Management for ISPs section of our website located here: > http://www.ip-echelon.com/isp-notice-management/ Are you serious? You receive spam and then you go to a link provided by the spammer, entering your contact information into a web form? I don't think so... Take it with their upstream abuse contact instead. Bj?rn From seth at ip-echelon.com Tue Oct 13 14:52:41 2015 From: seth at ip-echelon.com (seth at ip-echelon.com) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 07:52:41 -0700 Subject: IP-Echelon Compliance In-Reply-To: <561CCA8C.9000701@web2objects.com> References: <008ED77F-18AF-4AA6-9C18-613ACAEA1155@ip-echelon.com> <561CCA8C.9000701@web2objects.com> Message-ID: Hi Fred, I can?t find your name, email address or the domain-name from your email in our mailboxes. If you send the request via this webform or via email to the address specified in the notice, we?ll absolutely jump on it and respond ASAP. I can?t monitor this thread further but please reach out via the channels described so we can help. Cheers, Seth > On Oct 13, 2015, at 2:10 AM, Fred Hollis wrote: > > At least, we tried contacting you many times, but you ignored all our requests. > > Still receiving thousands of e-mails not related to our IPs on daily basis. > >> On 13.10.2015 at 00:04 Seth Arnold wrote: >> Hi All, >> >> Please feel free to get in touch with us to request changes. >> >> Expedited processing of your requests is offered through the Notice Recipient Management for ISPs section of our website located here: >> http://www.ip-echelon.com/isp-notice-management/ >> >> If you are in the U.S., please also ensure that your change is reflected in the records of the US Copyright Office: http://copyright.gov/onlinesp/list/a_agents.html >> >> >> Cheers, >> Seth >> From baldur.norddahl at gmail.com Tue Oct 13 14:56:59 2015 From: baldur.norddahl at gmail.com (Baldur Norddahl) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 16:56:59 +0200 Subject: IP-Echelon Compliance In-Reply-To: <1753065143.15451.1444745892327.JavaMail.mhammett@ThunderFuck> References: <87r3kzw366.fsf@nemi.mork.no> <1753065143.15451.1444745892327.JavaMail.mhammett@ThunderFuck> Message-ID: On 13 October 2015 at 16:17, Mike Hammett wrote: > So even when they give an avenue to resolve the issue, people still > complain... *sigh* > IP-Echelon used a faulty automated script to harvest abuse addresses and then expect everyone else to use a manual process to fix their errors, including a captcha. Where do we send the bill for labour? The ranges that we receive complaints from are totally unrelated to us. Have never been owned by us or any entity related to us. Is not even registred in the same country. Are not numerically close to any of our IP ranges. The ranges usually have a valid abuse address in whois and it is not ours. It is a bit of mystery how they came up with our abuse address. My conclusion is that I have zero obligations to tell anyone that I received an abuse report that is not for anything my users did. Especially not after already contacting the sender and they continue to send wrong reports. So I can just discard it. And with it I can discard all the reports that _are_ for our own users, because why is it my responsibility to write a filter? If they send me accurate information, I may want to consider forwarding the stuff, but if they are lazy, why would I not also choose the lazy way out? Adding IP-Echelon to the spam filter is very easy. Finding our ranges is extremely easy. You will find a complete list here and many other places: https://stat.ripe.net/as60876#tabId=routing. Someone from IP-Echelon is reading this, so go remove any prefixes not on that list. If you do not, then you choose to be lazy and thereby choose to be filtered as spam. Regards, Baldur From rsk at gsp.org Tue Oct 13 14:57:43 2015 From: rsk at gsp.org (Rich Kulawiec) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 10:57:43 -0400 Subject: IP-Echelon Compliance In-Reply-To: <1753065143.15451.1444745892327.JavaMail.mhammett@ThunderFuck> References: <87r3kzw366.fsf@nemi.mork.no> <1753065143.15451.1444745892327.JavaMail.mhammett@ThunderFuck> Message-ID: <20151013145743.GA790@gsp.org> On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 09:17:14AM -0500, Mike Hammett wrote: > So even when they give an avenue to resolve the issue, people still complain... *sigh* "Handing over more information" to unrepentant, chronic, systemic spammers (who also happen to be engaged in massive abuse of the DMCA) is not in any sense a "resolution". ---rsk From bob at FiberInternetCenter.com Tue Oct 13 15:30:39 2015 From: bob at FiberInternetCenter.com (Bob Evans) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 08:30:39 -0700 Subject: IP-Echelon Compliance In-Reply-To: References: <008ED77F-18AF-4AA6-9C18-613ACAEA1155@ip-echelon.com> <561CCA8C.9000701@web2objects.com> Message-ID: WAIT WAIT - I know the solution to all of this. Let's pass a law that requires everyone to fill out a form to buy a device with a MAC address. Make them wait 10 days to verify the buyer has never committed a digital crime. While law enforcement puts it in a pile forms and pretends they can verify through the process of piling and ignoring it. 10 days later, If law enforcement doesn't call - the store can then call the buyer and tell them they can pick up their new potential crime committing internet device. Oh Gee, I see here that I have been living in California too long. Bob Evans CTO BTW, from this thread, I just learned that responding the way the spam email states doesn't make it possible communicate with company personnel - you must first fill out an application and register to communicate ? A kind or opt-in-proof. We get these emails.... 99% of the time its the same IP address subnets of wi-fi in hotels or schools. They are always 12 hours late and often older - days late - hotel guests customers have checked out or closed their hacked laptop after their lunch meeting. What's a busy hotel staff suppose to do track down a guest MAC addresses - hire better firewall companies to block specific port traffic because of its potential use? Thought that ol' bit-torrent stuff flips ports whenever it needs too ? > Hi Fred, > > I can???t find your name, email address or the domain-name from your email > in our mailboxes. > > If you send the request via this webform or via email to the address > specified in the notice, we???ll absolutely jump on it and respond ASAP. > > I can???t monitor this thread further but please reach out via the > channels described so we can help. > > Cheers, > Seth > >> On Oct 13, 2015, at 2:10 AM, Fred Hollis wrote: >> >> At least, we tried contacting you many times, but you ignored all our >> requests. >> >> Still receiving thousands of e-mails not related to our IPs on daily >> basis. >> >>> On 13.10.2015 at 00:04 Seth Arnold wrote: >>> Hi All, >>> >>> Please feel free to get in touch with us to request changes. >>> >>> Expedited processing of your requests is offered through the Notice >>> Recipient Management for ISPs section of our website located here: >>> http://www.ip-echelon.com/isp-notice-management/ >>> >>> >>> If you are in the U.S., please also ensure that your change is >>> reflected in the records of the US Copyright Office: >>> http://copyright.gov/onlinesp/list/a_agents.html >>> >>> >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Seth >>> > From sunyucong at gmail.com Tue Oct 13 15:53:54 2015 From: sunyucong at gmail.com (Yucong Sun) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 23:53:54 +0800 Subject: IPv6 Irony. In-Reply-To: <561CE6FB.3050704@winterei.se> References: <561CD563.3070707@netassist.ua> <561CE6FB.3050704@winterei.se> Message-ID: I don't understand the strategy here, how is that getting more traffic going-through IPv6 help its adoption by the mass? IMHO it only helps high-end, backbone type of network equipment producers sell more of their big box with advanced IPv6 license. It has absolutely no help with the long tail crowd, which really need more push and incentive to support ipv6. Cheers. From jhellenthal at dataix.net Tue Oct 13 16:13:58 2015 From: jhellenthal at dataix.net (Jason Hellenthal) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 11:13:58 -0500 Subject: IP-Echelon Compliance In-Reply-To: References: <008ED77F-18AF-4AA6-9C18-613ACAEA1155@ip-echelon.com> <561CCA8C.9000701@web2objects.com> Message-ID: <19C5A440-61A1-4574-81FB-8BDAE6779051@dataix.net> RoFLx1000 Srysly! Cluebat who are these people again and why does anyone need them ? #Sigh -- Jason Hellenthal JJH48-ARIN On Oct 13, 2015, at 09:52, seth at ip-echelon.com wrote: Hi Fred, I can?t find your name, email address or the domain-name from your email in our mailboxes. If you send the request via this webform or via email to the address specified in the notice, we?ll absolutely jump on it and respond ASAP. I can?t monitor this thread further but please reach out via the channels described so we can help. Cheers, Seth > On Oct 13, 2015, at 2:10 AM, Fred Hollis wrote: > > At least, we tried contacting you many times, but you ignored all our requests. > > Still receiving thousands of e-mails not related to our IPs on daily basis. > >> On 13.10.2015 at 00:04 Seth Arnold wrote: >> Hi All, >> >> Please feel free to get in touch with us to request changes. >> >> Expedited processing of your requests is offered through the Notice Recipient Management for ISPs section of our website located here: >> http://www.ip-echelon.com/isp-notice-management/ >> >> If you are in the U.S., please also ensure that your change is reflected in the records of the US Copyright Office: http://copyright.gov/onlinesp/list/a_agents.html >> >> >> Cheers, >> Seth >> From cb.list6 at gmail.com Tue Oct 13 16:18:46 2015 From: cb.list6 at gmail.com (Ca By) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 09:18:46 -0700 Subject: IPv6 Irony. In-Reply-To: References: <561CD563.3070707@netassist.ua> <561CE6FB.3050704@winterei.se> Message-ID: On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 8:53 AM, Yucong Sun wrote: > I don't understand the strategy here, how is that getting more traffic > going-through IPv6 help its adoption by the mass? IMHO it only helps > high-end, backbone type of network equipment producers sell more of > their big box with advanced IPv6 license. It has absolutely no help > with the long tail crowd, which really need more push and incentive to > support ipv6. > > Cheers. > Which "big box" has an "advanced IPv6 license"? CB From alter3d at alter3d.ca Tue Oct 13 17:27:28 2015 From: alter3d at alter3d.ca (Peter Kristolaitis) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 13:27:28 -0400 Subject: IP-Echelon Compliance In-Reply-To: References: <008ED77F-18AF-4AA6-9C18-613ACAEA1155@ip-echelon.com> <561CCA8C.9000701@web2objects.com> Message-ID: <561D3F00.9010600@alter3d.ca> On 10/13/2015 11:30 AM, Bob Evans wrote: > WAIT WAIT - I know the solution to all of this. Let's pass a law that > requires everyone to fill out a form to buy a device with a MAC address. > Make them wait 10 days to verify the buyer has never committed a digital > crime. While law enforcement puts it in a pile forms and pretends they can > verify through the process of piling and ignoring it. 10 days later, If > law enforcement doesn't call - the store can then call the buyer and tell > them they can pick up their new potential crime committing internet > device. Background checks are great and all, but really what we need to do is restrict the ability of criminals to access illegal information, and we also need to get high-powered crime devices off of our streets. To that end, we're currently working on drafting new legislation which we're calling the "Personal Access To Restricted Information Over Telecommunications Act" (PATRIOT Act) that will give the government the ability to remove illegal information from the internet, monitor global internet access so we can detect criminal activity, and also streamline the process for dealing with offenders. In talking with our intelligence and police services, we've found that there are several key areas that can be improved to be able to deal with threats faster and more efficiently. For example, "due process" is quite slow, requiring the gathering of something I believe is called "evidence", and we are currently examining ways to simply make it "process". This will give our law enforcement the tools that they desperately want. On the hardware level, we need to get rid of all devices with more than 1 USB port. No one other than a criminal needs more than 1 external hard drive. This will inconvenience a very small number of people who also use USB ports for devices such as keyboards, mice and printers, but we commissioned a study that said the impact should be minor. We recommend that those affected by this change look at alternatives such as "PS2". The government computing infrastructure has been using this standard for several years now with great success. Limiting USB ports on a device introduces another problem -- the "USB hub loophole", which we will address with future legislation. We will need to work with the ATF and Homeland Security to identify the best way to deal with this issue. We will probably need to bring in CIA and NSA as well, to monitor the production and sale of these devices both abroad and domestically. We are also in talks at the UN to introduce a new, multinational, multilateral civilian oversight committee to monitor and regulate the international trade of these dangerous items. However, we are having difficulties getting some member states to accept the inspection requirements, and talks are ongoing. Next, we're going to limit the general availability of network connections to no more than 32kbit/sec in either direction. Faster network connections will be available, but you will have to register with the government and pay for a tax stamp. This ensures that criminals can't misuse high-speed network connections, unless they can afford to pay $200. Finally, we are going to introduce a total digital-crime-device ban to help tackle the problem in high-crime areas. We are going to give states and municipalities the ability to make "digital-free zones" where the possession of digital crime devices is prohibited. This will result in the complete elimination of digital crimes committed in public areas such as schools and movie theaters, because it will be double-illegal to commit crimes there. From Matthew.Black at csulb.edu Tue Oct 13 18:12:59 2015 From: Matthew.Black at csulb.edu (Matthew Black) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 18:12:59 +0000 Subject: IP-Echelon Compliance In-Reply-To: <008ED77F-18AF-4AA6-9C18-613ACAEA1155@ip-echelon.com> References: <008ED77F-18AF-4AA6-9C18-613ACAEA1155@ip-echelon.com> Message-ID: As a recipient of their stuff, it would be nice if IP Echelon even followed the information registered with the US Copyright Office for such notices. We paid $80 to let everyone know where notices should be sent. matthew black First Amendment: speaking for myself and not my employer! -----Original Message----- From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces at nanog.org] On Behalf Of Seth Arnold Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 3:05 PM To: nanog at nanog.org Subject: RE: IP-Echelon Compliance Hi All, Please feel free to get in touch with us to request changes. Expedited processing of your requests is offered through the Notice Recipient Management for ISPs section of our website located here: http://www.ip-echelon.com/isp-notice-management/ If you are in the U.S., please also ensure that your change is reflected in the records of the US Copyright Office: http://copyright.gov/onlinesp/list/a_agents.html Cheers, Seth From christopher.morrow at gmail.com Tue Oct 13 18:35:46 2015 From: christopher.morrow at gmail.com (Christopher Morrow) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 14:35:46 -0400 Subject: IP-Echelon Compliance In-Reply-To: References: <008ED77F-18AF-4AA6-9C18-613ACAEA1155@ip-echelon.com> Message-ID: I'm still.amazed that my name servers are performing bit torrent... According to ip-echelon. On Oct 13, 2015 12:14 PM, "Matthew Black" wrote: > As a recipient of their stuff, it would be nice if IP Echelon even > followed the information registered with the US Copyright Office for such > notices. We paid $80 to let everyone know where notices should be sent. > > matthew black > First Amendment: speaking for myself and not my employer! > > > -----Original Message----- > From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces at nanog.org] On Behalf Of Seth Arnold > Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 3:05 PM > To: nanog at nanog.org > Subject: RE: IP-Echelon Compliance > > Hi All, > > Please feel free to get in touch with us to request changes. > > Expedited processing of your requests is offered through the Notice > Recipient Management for ISPs section of our website located here: > http://www.ip-echelon.com/isp-notice-management/ < > http://www.ip-echelon.com/isp-notice-management/> > > If you are in the U.S., please also ensure that your change is reflected > in the records of the US Copyright Office: > http://copyright.gov/onlinesp/list/a_agents.html < > http://copyright.gov/onlinesp/list/a_agents.html> > > > Cheers, > Seth > From robertg at garlic.com Tue Oct 13 19:25:27 2015 From: robertg at garlic.com (Robert Glover) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 12:25:27 -0700 Subject: Microsoft / Outlook.com contact??? Message-ID: <561D5AA7.6060104@garlic.com> Anyone from Microsoft / Outlook.com / Office365 around? We are having a problem with email from a certain IP being rejected with code FBLW15. We have gone through the normal channels but have received no communication/acknowledgement from Microsoft at all. Emails to any domain with *outlook.com MX records are rejected with the following: --- host klatencor-com0i.mail.eo.outlook.com[207.46.163.138] said: 550 5.7.1 Service unavailable; Client host [65.111..] blocked using FBLW15; To request removal from this list please forward this message to delist at messaging.microsoft.com (in reply to RCPT TO command) --- We have emailed delist at messaging.microsoft.com, with no response. The IP in question is not showing up on any blacklists that we have searched (mxtoolbox, multi-rbl-check, etc etc) Thanks -Robert From surfer at mauigateway.com Tue Oct 13 19:29:47 2015 From: surfer at mauigateway.com (Scott Weeks) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 12:29:47 -0700 Subject: IP-Echelon Compliance Message-ID: <20151013122947.5C97B504@m0087798.ppops.net> --- seth at ip-echelon.com wrote: If you send the request via this webform or via email to the address specified in the notice... ----------------------------------- Maybe I'm cynical, but... :-) That's one good way to assure your email spam list is of a higher quality. Turn your automated spam cannon directly at network engineers, rather than to a whois email address. Shortcuts and all that... scott From mjwise at kapu.net Tue Oct 13 20:10:00 2015 From: mjwise at kapu.net (Michael J Wise) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 13:10:00 -0700 Subject: Microsoft / Outlook.com contact??? In-Reply-To: <561D5AA7.6060104@garlic.com> References: <561D5AA7.6060104@garlic.com> Message-ID: <7ee9a65caced4196bfa2028c76f3b66c.squirrel@secure.kapu.net> > Anyone from Microsoft / Outlook.com / Office365 around? > We are having a problem with email from a certain IP being rejected with > code FBLW15. We have gone through the normal channels but have received > no communication/acknowledgement from Microsoft at all. When did you send the request in to delist at messaging.microsoft.com? > Emails to any > domain with *outlook.com MX records are rejected with the following: > > --- > host > klatencor-com0i.mail.eo.outlook.com[207.46.163.138] said: 550 5.7.1 > Service > unavailable; Client host [65.111..] blocked using > FBLW15; To request > removal from this list please forward this message to > delist at messaging.microsoft.com (in reply to RCPT TO command) > --- > > We have emailed delist at messaging.microsoft.com, with no response. > > The IP in question is not showing up on any blacklists that we have > searched (mxtoolbox, multi-rbl-check, etc etc) > > Thanks > -Robert > Aloha mai Nai`a. -- " So this is how Liberty dies ... http://kapu.net/~mjwise/ " To Thunderous Applause. From mark at viviotech.net Tue Oct 13 21:36:45 2015 From: mark at viviotech.net (Mark Keymer) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 14:36:45 -0700 Subject: Charter Communication internet issues in SE Washington State. Message-ID: <561D796D.6030607@viviotech.net> Hi All, I was just wondering if anyone on the list might have some info on the ongoing issues with Charter in SE Washington state? I have heard that the issues are in Yakima WA. Off-list or on-list replies welcomed. Sincerely, -- Mark Keymer From rstory at tislabs.com Wed Oct 14 00:44:23 2015 From: rstory at tislabs.com (Robert Story) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 20:44:23 -0400 Subject: Microsoft / Outlook.com contact??? In-Reply-To: <561D5AA7.6060104@garlic.com> References: <561D5AA7.6060104@garlic.com> Message-ID: <20151013204423.535d736c@ispx.vb.futz.org> On Tue, 13 Oct 2015 12:25:27 -0700 Robert wrote: RG> We are having a problem with email from a certain IP being rejected RG> with code FBLW15. We have gone through the normal channels but have RG> received no communication/acknowledgement from Microsoft at all. Emails RG> to any domain with *outlook.com MX records are rejected with the RG> following: RG> [....] RG> We have emailed delist at messaging.microsoft.com, with no response. This has happened to me twice this year. Both times I got an auto-response fairly quickly, and a followup message within a week, and was delisted. Never could get any info on why I was listed in the first place, though. Robert -- Senior Software Engineer @ Parsons -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From robertg at garlic.com Wed Oct 14 00:47:28 2015 From: robertg at garlic.com (Robert Glover) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 17:47:28 -0700 Subject: Microsoft / Outlook.com contact??? In-Reply-To: <20151013204423.535d736c@ispx.vb.futz.org> References: <561D5AA7.6060104@garlic.com> <20151013204423.535d736c@ispx.vb.futz.org> Message-ID: <561DA620.2020600@garlic.com> On 10/13/2015 5:44 PM, Robert Story wrote: > On Tue, 13 Oct 2015 12:25:27 -0700 Robert wrote: > RG> We are having a problem with email from a certain IP being rejected > RG> with code FBLW15. We have gone through the normal channels but have > RG> received no communication/acknowledgement from Microsoft at all. Emails > RG> to any domain with *outlook.com MX records are rejected with the > RG> following: > RG> [....] > RG> We have emailed delist at messaging.microsoft.com, with no response. > > This has happened to me twice this year. Both times I got an auto-response > fairly quickly, and a followup message within a week, and was delisted. > Never could get any info on why I was listed in the first place, though. > > > Robert > An MS engineer reached out earlier, gave me this: https://postmaster.live.com/snds/addnetwork.aspx Signing for and using that tool, I was able to pin-point the cause. You can also sign-up for their junk-mail feedback loop. Hope this helps you next time! -- Sincerely, Bobby Glover Director of IS & Engineering SVI Incorporated From eric.kuhnke at gmail.com Wed Oct 14 01:17:36 2015 From: eric.kuhnke at gmail.com (Eric Kuhnke) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 18:17:36 -0700 Subject: IP-Echelon Compliance In-Reply-To: References: <008ED77F-18AF-4AA6-9C18-613ACAEA1155@ip-echelon.com> <561CCA8C.9000701@web2objects.com> Message-ID: While you are at it you might want to stop sending DMCA notices to Canadian ISPs. The DMCA does not apply in Canada. If your clients wish to litigate against individual residential customers in Canada, you will first need to obtain a court order requiring handover of data, on a case-by-case basis. Just because the IP blocks in question are in ARIN space does not mean they are subject to the DMCA. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/technology/tech-news/court-tells-teksavvy-to-reveal-customers-who-illegally-download-movies/article17025513/ On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 7:52 AM, wrote: > Hi Fred, > > I can?t find your name, email address or the domain-name from your email > in our mailboxes. > > If you send the request via this webform or via email to the address > specified in the notice, we?ll absolutely jump on it and respond ASAP. > > I can?t monitor this thread further but please reach out via the channels > described so we can help. > > Cheers, > Seth > > > On Oct 13, 2015, at 2:10 AM, Fred Hollis wrote: > > > > At least, we tried contacting you many times, but you ignored all our > requests. > > > > Still receiving thousands of e-mails not related to our IPs on daily > basis. > > > >> On 13.10.2015 at 00:04 Seth Arnold wrote: > >> Hi All, > >> > >> Please feel free to get in touch with us to request changes. > >> > >> Expedited processing of your requests is offered through the Notice > Recipient Management for ISPs section of our website located here: > >> http://www.ip-echelon.com/isp-notice-management/ < > http://www.ip-echelon.com/isp-notice-management/> > >> > >> If you are in the U.S., please also ensure that your change is > reflected in the records of the US Copyright Office: > http://copyright.gov/onlinesp/list/a_agents.html < > http://copyright.gov/onlinesp/list/a_agents.html> > >> > >> > >> Cheers, > >> Seth > >> > From rstory at tislabs.com Wed Oct 14 01:26:45 2015 From: rstory at tislabs.com (Robert Story) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 21:26:45 -0400 Subject: Microsoft / Outlook.com contact??? In-Reply-To: <561DA620.2020600@garlic.com> References: <561D5AA7.6060104@garlic.com> <20151013204423.535d736c@ispx.vb.futz.org> <561DA620.2020600@garlic.com> Message-ID: <20151013212645.7986b943@ispx.vb.futz.org> On Tue, 13 Oct 2015 17:47:28 -0700 Robert wrote: RG> On 10/13/2015 5:44 PM, Robert Story wrote: RG> > On Tue, 13 Oct 2015 12:25:27 -0700 Robert wrote: RG> > RG> We are having a problem with email from a certain IP being RG> > RG> rejected with code FBLW15. We have gone through the normal RG> > RG> channels but have received no communication/acknowledgement from RG> > RG> Microsoft at all. Emails to any domain with *outlook.com MX RG> > RG> records are rejected with the following: RG> > RG> [....] RG> > RG> We have emailed delist at messaging.microsoft.com, with no response. RG> > RG> > This has happened to me twice this year. Both times I got an RG> > auto-response fairly quickly, and a followup message within a week, RG> > and was delisted. Never could get any info on why I was listed in the RG> > first place, though. RG> > RG> > RG> > Robert RG> > RG> An MS engineer reached out earlier, gave me this: RG> RG> https://postmaster.live.com/snds/addnetwork.aspx RG> RG> Signing for and using that tool, I was able to pin-point the cause. You RG> can also sign-up for their junk-mail feedback loop. RG> RG> Hope this helps you next time! Excellent, thanks! Robert -- Senior Software Engineer @ Parsons -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From tony at wicks.co.nz Wed Oct 14 02:08:23 2015 From: tony at wicks.co.nz (Tony Wicks) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 15:08:23 +1300 Subject: IP-Echelon Compliance In-Reply-To: References: <008ED77F-18AF-4AA6-9C18-613ACAEA1155@ip-echelon.com> <561CCA8C.9000701@web2objects.com> Message-ID: <021901d10625$35da9890$a18fc9b0$@wicks.co.nz> > While you are at it you might want to stop sending DMCA notices to Canadian > ISPs. The DMCA does not apply in Canada. If your clients wish to litigate against > individual residential customers in Canada, you will first need to obtain a court > order requiring handover of data, on a case-by-case basis. Well said, the 500 or so a day that get filtered into my deleted items folder are mildly annoying, and all our IP ranges are APNIC (not America!). DCMA does not extend outside of the USA, no matter how much spam you send. If you want someone to do something that applies to other countries spend some time bothering to find out what the relevant laws are in those countries. From mjwise at kapu.net Wed Oct 14 05:49:52 2015 From: mjwise at kapu.net (Michael J Wise) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 22:49:52 -0700 Subject: Microsoft / Outlook.com contact??? In-Reply-To: <20151013212645.7986b943@ispx.vb.futz.org> References: <561D5AA7.6060104@garlic.com> <20151013204423.535d736c@ispx.vb.futz.org> <561DA620.2020600@garlic.com> <20151013212645.7986b943@ispx.vb.futz.org> Message-ID: <6f2dcec3f317c53c7e107a84834dc39d.squirrel@secure.kapu.net> > On Tue, 13 Oct 2015 17:47:28 -0700 Robert wrote: > RG> On 10/13/2015 5:44 PM, Robert Story wrote: > RG> > On Tue, 13 Oct 2015 12:25:27 -0700 Robert wrote: > RG> > RG> We are having a problem with email from a certain IP being > RG> > RG> rejected with code FBLW15. We have gone through the normal > RG> > RG> channels but have received no communication/acknowledgement from > RG> > RG> Microsoft at all. Emails to any domain with *outlook.com MX > RG> > RG> records are rejected with the following: > RG> > RG> [....] > RG> > RG> We have emailed delist at messaging.microsoft.com, with no > response. > RG> > > RG> > This has happened to me twice this year. Both times I got an > RG> > auto-response fairly quickly, and a followup message within a week, > RG> > and was delisted. Never could get any info on why I was listed in > the > RG> > first place, though. > RG> > > RG> > > RG> > Robert > RG> > > RG> An MS engineer reached out earlier, gave me this: > RG> > RG> https://postmaster.live.com/snds/addnetwork.aspx > RG> > RG> Signing for and using that tool, I was able to pin-point the cause. > You > RG> can also sign-up for their junk-mail feedback loop. > RG> > RG> Hope this helps you next time! > > Excellent, thanks! Unfortunately, that's not going to work if the refusal reason was FBLW15 (or TBLW15). You're not dealing with an issue on the Outlook/Hotmail side of the house. If you had provided the last two octets, I might have been able to give some advice earlier, but alas, everyone seems loathe to actually say which IP is having issues. Aloha mai Nai`a. -- " So this is how Liberty dies ... http://kapu.net/~mjwise/ " To Thunderous Applause. From charlesg at unixrealm.com Wed Oct 14 06:18:39 2015 From: charlesg at unixrealm.com (Alberta Prieto) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 23:18:39 -0700 Subject: Fw: important message Message-ID: <00000b34f7b6$495fc0ec$01394cda$@unixrealm.com> Hello! Important message, please read Alberta Prieto From randy at psg.com Wed Oct 14 10:12:29 2015 From: randy at psg.com (Randy Bush) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 12:12:29 +0200 Subject: IP-Echelon Compliance In-Reply-To: <19C5A440-61A1-4574-81FB-8BDAE6779051@dataix.net> References: <008ED77F-18AF-4AA6-9C18-613ACAEA1155@ip-echelon.com> <561CCA8C.9000701@web2objects.com> <19C5A440-61A1-4574-81FB-8BDAE6779051@dataix.net> Message-ID: jeezus folk! http://www.procmail.org/ From rsk at gsp.org Wed Oct 14 10:37:57 2015 From: rsk at gsp.org (Rich Kulawiec) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 06:37:57 -0400 Subject: IP-Echelon Compliance In-Reply-To: References: <008ED77F-18AF-4AA6-9C18-613ACAEA1155@ip-echelon.com> <561CCA8C.9000701@web2objects.com> <19C5A440-61A1-4574-81FB-8BDAE6779051@dataix.net> Message-ID: <20151014103756.GA12883@gsp.org> On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 12:12:29PM +0200, Randy Bush wrote: > jeezus folk! > > http://www.procmail.org/ I wouldn't necessarily recommend that approach. There is no obligation for victims of spammers to continue providing Internet services to them, including SMTP services. A much better move would be to identify the network block emitting this abuse and block/drop all packets from it at the perimeter of the network or in the firewall(s). After all, spammers frequently engage in other forms of abuse, so it would probably be best to simply remove them from your view of the Internet. ---rsk From list at satchell.net Wed Oct 14 11:22:01 2015 From: list at satchell.net (Stephen Satchell) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 04:22:01 -0700 Subject: IP-Echelon Compliance In-Reply-To: <20151014103756.GA12883@gsp.org> References: <008ED77F-18AF-4AA6-9C18-613ACAEA1155@ip-echelon.com> <561CCA8C.9000701@web2objects.com> <19C5A440-61A1-4574-81FB-8BDAE6779051@dataix.net> <20151014103756.GA12883@gsp.org> Message-ID: <561E3AD9.2010101@satchell.net> On 10/14/2015 03:37 AM, Rich Kulawiec wrote: > On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 12:12:29PM +0200, Randy Bush wrote: >> jeezus folk! >> >> http://www.procmail.org/ > > I wouldn't necessarily recommend that approach. There is no obligation > for victims of spammers to continue providing Internet services to them, > including SMTP services. A much better move would be to identify the > network block emitting this abuse and block/drop all packets from it at > the perimeter of the network or in the firewall(s). After all, spammers > frequently engage in other forms of abuse, so it would probably be best > to simply remove them from your view of the Internet. > > ---rsk > +1 -- I've taken the approach in my edge network to block spammers and SSH abusers completely, on the theory that people will have multiple bad habits. I collect between 1000 and 2000 spam messages during each cycle, then add the worst offenders to my netblocks. I don't recommend this approach for services that have a number of different customers; for enterprise networks, though, judicious use of ACLs can relieve a lot of headaches and clogging traffic. Running multiple mail servers, one for incoming sales and one for general use, lets you tailor the blocks so that relatively few people have to deal with the sludge. From randy at psg.com Wed Oct 14 12:20:39 2015 From: randy at psg.com (Randy Bush) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 14:20:39 +0200 Subject: IP-Echelon Compliance In-Reply-To: <20151014103756.GA12883@gsp.org> References: <008ED77F-18AF-4AA6-9C18-613ACAEA1155@ip-echelon.com> <561CCA8C.9000701@web2objects.com> <19C5A440-61A1-4574-81FB-8BDAE6779051@dataix.net> <20151014103756.GA12883@gsp.org> Message-ID: >> http://www.procmail.org/ > I wouldn't necessarily recommend that approach. There is no > obligation for victims of spammers to continue providing Internet > services to them, including SMTP services. computers are cheap. my time is finite and i value it highly. what is the minimal action i can take to see that idiots do not take my time? randy From Valdis.Kletnieks at vt.edu Wed Oct 14 14:36:05 2015 From: Valdis.Kletnieks at vt.edu (Valdis.Kletnieks at vt.edu) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 10:36:05 -0400 Subject: IP-Echelon Compliance In-Reply-To: References: <008ED77F-18AF-4AA6-9C18-613ACAEA1155@ip-echelon.com> <561CCA8C.9000701@web2objects.com> <19C5A440-61A1-4574-81FB-8BDAE6779051@dataix.net> <20151014103756.GA12883@gsp.org> Message-ID: <8774.1444833365@turing-police.cc.vt.edu> On Wed, 14 Oct 2015 14:20:39 +0200, Randy Bush said: > >> http://www.procmail.org/ > > I wouldn't necessarily recommend that approach. There is no > > obligation for victims of spammers to continue providing Internet > > services to them, including SMTP services. > > computers are cheap. my time is finite and i value it highly. what is > the minimal action i can take to see that idiots do not take my time? I suppose it would be bad form to suggest hiring somebody from with a Louisville Slugger to perform percussive maintenance on the offending party? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 848 bytes Desc: not available URL: From morrowc.lists at gmail.com Wed Oct 14 16:49:56 2015 From: morrowc.lists at gmail.com (Christopher Morrow) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 12:49:56 -0400 Subject: IP-Echelon Compliance In-Reply-To: <8774.1444833365@turing-police.cc.vt.edu> References: <008ED77F-18AF-4AA6-9C18-613ACAEA1155@ip-echelon.com> <561CCA8C.9000701@web2objects.com> <19C5A440-61A1-4574-81FB-8BDAE6779051@dataix.net> <20151014103756.GA12883@gsp.org> <8774.1444833365@turing-police.cc.vt.edu> Message-ID: looks like ip-echelon's MX's are: 67.43.171.100 - 67.43.171.96/27 67.43.165.163 - 67.43.165.160/27 203.122.134.3 - 122-134-3.dsl.connexus.net.au. ? you could presumably just iptables away (or postfix reject) from those, and then there's this: ;; ANSWER SECTION: ip-echelon.com. 300 IN TXT "v=spf1 include:mailgun.org ~all" ip-echelon.com. 300 IN TXT "v=spf1 include:mail.zendesk.com ?all" ip-echelon.com. 300 IN TXT "v=spf1 ptr:ip-echelon.com ip4:67.43.171.96/27 ip4:67.43.165.160/27 ip4:203.122.134.0/28 include:_spf.google.com ~all" ip-echelon.com. 300 IN TXT "MS=ms85153493" joy. messy :( On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 10:36 AM, wrote: > On Wed, 14 Oct 2015 14:20:39 +0200, Randy Bush said: >> >> http://www.procmail.org/ >> > I wouldn't necessarily recommend that approach. There is no >> > obligation for victims of spammers to continue providing Internet >> > services to them, including SMTP services. >> >> computers are cheap. my time is finite and i value it highly. what is >> the minimal action i can take to see that idiots do not take my time? > > I suppose it would be bad form to suggest hiring somebody from crime cartel> with a Louisville Slugger to perform percussive maintenance on > the offending party? > From george.herbert at gmail.com Wed Oct 14 18:19:00 2015 From: george.herbert at gmail.com (George Herbert) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 11:19:00 -0700 Subject: IP-Echelon Compliance In-Reply-To: References: <008ED77F-18AF-4AA6-9C18-613ACAEA1155@ip-echelon.com> <561CCA8C.9000701@web2objects.com> <19C5A440-61A1-4574-81FB-8BDAE6779051@dataix.net> <20151014103756.GA12883@gsp.org> Message-ID: You guys aren't devious enough. These guys are in violation of CAN-SPAM. To the tune of exceeding the statutory maximum $1,000,000 per ISP last *month* for some of you, much less in the statute of limitations period. You could probably point to refusal to remove as justifying the triple damages claim. Everyone on this list just earned your companies $3 million. Call your attorneys. George William Herbert Sent from my iPhone On Oct 14, 2015, at 5:20 AM, Randy Bush wrote: >>> http://www.procmail.org/ >> I wouldn't necessarily recommend that approach. There is no >> obligation for victims of spammers to continue providing Internet >> services to them, including SMTP services. > > computers are cheap. my time is finite and i value it highly. what is > the minimal action i can take to see that idiots do not take my time? > > randy From nanog at ics-il.net Wed Oct 14 18:21:10 2015 From: nanog at ics-il.net (Mike Hammett) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 13:21:10 -0500 (CDT) Subject: IP-Echelon Compliance In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <554636802.17036.1444846915291.JavaMail.mhammett@ThunderFuck> Some people here just strive to be dicks... ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "George Herbert" To: "Randy Bush" Cc: "North American Network Operators' Group" , "Rich Kulawiec" Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2015 1:19:00 PM Subject: Re: IP-Echelon Compliance You guys aren't devious enough. These guys are in violation of CAN-SPAM. To the tune of exceeding the statutory maximum $1,000,000 per ISP last *month* for some of you, much less in the statute of limitations period. You could probably point to refusal to remove as justifying the triple damages claim. Everyone on this list just earned your companies $3 million. Call your attorneys. George William Herbert Sent from my iPhone On Oct 14, 2015, at 5:20 AM, Randy Bush wrote: >>> http://www.procmail.org/ >> I wouldn't necessarily recommend that approach. There is no >> obligation for victims of spammers to continue providing Internet >> services to them, including SMTP services. > > computers are cheap. my time is finite and i value it highly. what is > the minimal action i can take to see that idiots do not take my time? > > randy From matthias at leisi.net Wed Oct 14 20:04:00 2015 From: matthias at leisi.net (Matthias Leisi) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 22:04:00 +0200 Subject: IP-Echelon Compliance In-Reply-To: References: <008ED77F-18AF-4AA6-9C18-613ACAEA1155@ip-echelon.com> <561CCA8C.9000701@web2objects.com> <19C5A440-61A1-4574-81FB-8BDAE6779051@dataix.net> <20151014103756.GA12883@gsp.org> <8774.1444833365@turing-police.cc.vt.edu> Message-ID: <30C1F2E9-D140-47C9-96EE-C2F380DB435C@leisi.net> > > Am 14.10.2015 um 18:49 schrieb Christopher Morrow : > > looks like ip-echelon's MX's are: > 67.43.171.100 - 67.43.171.96/27 > 67.43.165.163 - 67.43.165.160/27 > 203.122.134.3 - 122-134-3.dsl.connexus.net.au. ? In or near these ranges, I see 67.43.171.121 (monthly magnitude 5.5) 67.43.165.164 (same monthly magnitude) These two IPs also have roughly equivalent magnitude histories over the past six months. (Magnitude: mag 10 = ?all email in the world as observed in this particular system?, magnitude 5.5 is already pretty big, but may be vastly different depending on the recipient) ? Matthias -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 4109 bytes Desc: not available URL: From trelane at trelane.net Wed Oct 14 20:43:49 2015 From: trelane at trelane.net (Andrew Kirch) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 16:43:49 -0400 Subject: IP-Echelon Compliance In-Reply-To: References: <008ED77F-18AF-4AA6-9C18-613ACAEA1155@ip-echelon.com> <561CCA8C.9000701@web2objects.com> <19C5A440-61A1-4574-81FB-8BDAE6779051@dataix.net> <20151014103756.GA12883@gsp.org> Message-ID: Minimal? Probably 22LR. I prefer 458SOCOM though. As Bob Evans notes, there may be some waiting periods, serial numbers, and background checks involved. :) On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 8:20 AM, Randy Bush wrote: > >> http://www.procmail.org/ > > I wouldn't necessarily recommend that approach. There is no > > obligation for victims of spammers to continue providing Internet > > services to them, including SMTP services. > > computers are cheap. my time is finite and i value it highly. what is > the minimal action i can take to see that idiots do not take my time? > > randy > From morrowc.lists at gmail.com Wed Oct 14 20:51:34 2015 From: morrowc.lists at gmail.com (Christopher Morrow) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 16:51:34 -0400 Subject: IP-Echelon Compliance In-Reply-To: References: <008ED77F-18AF-4AA6-9C18-613ACAEA1155@ip-echelon.com> <561CCA8C.9000701@web2objects.com> <19C5A440-61A1-4574-81FB-8BDAE6779051@dataix.net> <20151014103756.GA12883@gsp.org> Message-ID: pretty certain that the list ought not be pushing for bodily harm to individuals... it's fair to say: "trash all their mail" or "block their mailservers at the edge" but calling out hits .. not cool. On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 4:43 PM, Andrew Kirch wrote: > Minimal? Probably 22LR. I prefer 458SOCOM though. As Bob Evans notes, > there may be some waiting periods, serial numbers, and background checks > involved. :) > > On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 8:20 AM, Randy Bush wrote: > >> >> http://www.procmail.org/ >> > I wouldn't necessarily recommend that approach. There is no >> > obligation for victims of spammers to continue providing Internet >> > services to them, including SMTP services. >> >> computers are cheap. my time is finite and i value it highly. what is >> the minimal action i can take to see that idiots do not take my time? >> >> randy >> From rdrake at direcpath.com Wed Oct 14 21:08:56 2015 From: rdrake at direcpath.com (rdrake) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 17:08:56 -0400 Subject: Packetfront/Waystream gear Message-ID: <561EC468.1070101@direcpath.com> Does anyone have experience running Packetfront hardware in a production network? We've looked at a few and they seem to be pretty good but I want to know if they have downsides. We're looking at them for edge switches now and thinking about if they can be site routers or switches (either a q-in-q vlan handoff to a ring or a separate L3 with routing protocols depending on how the site is accessed) You can contact me offlist if you don't want to talk about it publicly. Thanks, Robert From robertg at garlic.com Wed Oct 14 23:58:25 2015 From: robertg at garlic.com (Robert Glover) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 16:58:25 -0700 Subject: Microsoft / Outlook.com contact??? In-Reply-To: <6f2dcec3f317c53c7e107a84834dc39d.squirrel@secure.kapu.net> References: <561D5AA7.6060104@garlic.com> <20151013204423.535d736c@ispx.vb.futz.org> <561DA620.2020600@garlic.com> <20151013212645.7986b943@ispx.vb.futz.org> <6f2dcec3f317c53c7e107a84834dc39d.squirrel@secure.kapu.net> Message-ID: <561EEC21.6050304@garlic.com> On 10/13/2015 10:49 PM, Michael J Wise wrote: > Unfortunately, that's not going to work if the refusal reason was FBLW15 > (or TBLW15). > > You're not dealing with an issue on the Outlook/Hotmail side of the house. > > If you had provided the last two octets, I might have been able to give > some advice earlier, but alas, everyone seems loathe to actually say which > IP is having issues. IP in question: 65.111.224.51 Not trying to hide anything, but seeing the posts with obfuscated IPs has rubbed off on me I suppose (for better or for worse. I appreciate if you can help us out here. -Bobby From jason at thebaughers.com Thu Oct 15 05:27:10 2015 From: jason at thebaughers.com (Jason Baugher) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 00:27:10 -0500 Subject: Spamhaus contact needed Message-ID: Sorry to clutter up this list with an email issue, but hopefully someone is here from Spamhaus that can contact me off-list. I have a customer whose IP keeps getting listed in the CBL, and even after doing packet captures of everything in and out of their network, I still can't find a reason for it. Thanks From me at anuragbhatia.com Thu Oct 15 07:35:30 2015 From: me at anuragbhatia.com (Anurag Bhatia) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 13:05:30 +0530 Subject: IPv6 and Android auto conf In-Reply-To: <20151001155634.GD21567@bamboo.slabnet.com> References: <20150928152039.GG1518@bamboo.slabnet.com> <20151001155634.GD21567@bamboo.slabnet.com> Message-ID: Hello all Thankyou for your responses. A quick update on this: It must have been an Android bug. I got Android updated to 6.0 (Marshmallow) on Nexus 5 few days back and right after update IPv6 issue has been completely resolved. Device stays with usual two IPv6 addresses all the time and works fine. Thanks. On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 9:26 PM, Hugo Slabbert wrote: > > On Mon 2015-Sep-28 21:15:02 +0530, Anurag Bhatia > wrote: > > Hi Hugo >> >> >> (My reply in line) >> >> On Mon, Sep 28, 2015 at 8:50 PM, Hugo Slabbert wrote: >> >> >>> On Mon 2015-Sep-28 17:33:46 +0530, Anurag Bhatia >>> wrote: >>> >>> Hello everyone >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I recently got IPv6 working at home LAN. My Android device (Google Nexus >>>> 5) >>>> is connected via wifi to LAN and LAN's core router is Map2N >>>> . I have a /64 on the LAN with >>>> "advertise" >>>> enabled to make ND to work and have autoconfig working on all devices. >>>> There are bunch of other layer 2 devices in LAN but all just acting as >>>> layer 2 transparently and core L3 remains on Map2N. >>>> >>>> >>>> All works well for most part but only trouble I am getting is on Nexus 5 >>>> where after around 24hrs IPv6 stops working. >>>> >>>> >>> How, specifically, does it "stop working" on the Nexus 5? >>> - temp addresses expired and does not generate new, valid, slaac >>> addresses? >>> - RA entry ages out and doesn't get refreshed? >>> - cannot reach v6 gateway (ND fails somehow)? >>> >> >> The last one - everything appears normal (with 4 IPv6 addresses on the >> device) but I cannot point any neighbor in same VLAN. Nor I can ping from >> them. >> >> > That sounds either like NDP is busted on the phone or the AP is eating the > Android device's ND traffic. > > When this happens, does the Android device show up in the ND cache of the > other devices on the network that you are trying to reach/ping? > > Does it show up in the ND cache of the segment's router? > > If the Android device isn't showing up in other hosts ND caches when you > try to ping them, can you do a pcap on one of those hosts when you try to > initiate pings from the Android device to confirm if NS packets are being > received? > > Have you tried doing captures on the Android device directly [1][2][3] to > see if it still receives RAs when this happens? > > The symptoms seem to possibly line up with Android issue #32662[4]. > Possible you're being hit by that? > > > >> The visible impact I see of it is slightly slow behavior of IPv6 enabled >> apps/websites which take a few seconds, timeout and fallback to IPv4. >> >> >> >> >> Thanks. >> >> >>> >>> Only unusual thing I notice at that time is that phone 4 IPv6 as opposed >>> >>>> to 2 (autoconf and temporary randomised address). Seems like some kind >>>> of >>>> issue in way NDP works either on Microtik or phone. The fix I am doing >>>> from >>>> few days is to restart wifi and phone interface gets fresh (two) IPv6 >>>> addresses and all works well >>>> again. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Anyone facing similar issue? (Note: No issues on OS X or iOS which are >>>> in >>>> same LAN) >>>> >>>> >>>> I can try DHCPv6 but I guess most of devices do not support it yet. (I >>>> see >>>> support for that in routerboard though). >>>> >>>> >>>> Unless something's changed, DHCPv6 IA_NA isn't an option for getting an >>> IPv6 address assigned to an Android device[1][2] >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks. >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> >>>> Anurag Bhatia >>>> anuragbhatia.com >>>> >>>> >>>> PGP Key Fingerprint: 3115 677D 2E94 B696 651B 870C C06D D524 245E 58E2 >>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> Hugo >>> >>> hugo at slabnet.com: email, xmpp/jabber >>> PGP fingerprint (B178313E): >>> CF18 15FA 9FE4 0CD1 2319 >>> 1D77 9AB1 0FFD B178 313E >>> >>> [1] https://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=32621 >>> [2] http://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2015-June/075915.html >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> Anurag Bhatia >> anuragbhatia.com >> >> >> PGP Key Fingerprint: 3115 677D 2E94 B696 651B 870C C06D D524 245E 58E2 >> > > -- > Hugo > > hugo at slabnet.com: email, xmpp/jabber > PGP fingerprint (B178313E): > CF18 15FA 9FE4 0CD1 2319 > 1D77 9AB1 0FFD B178 313E > > (also on textsecure & redphone) > > [1] https://sites.google.com/site/androidarts/packet-sniffer (needs root) > [2] https://www.kismetwireless.net/android-pcap/ (some limitations, but > shouldn't need root) > [3] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=lv.n3o.shark (needs > root) > [4] https://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=32662 > -- Anurag Bhatia anuragbhatia.com PGP Key Fingerprint: 3115 677D 2E94 B696 651B 870C C06D D524 245E 58E2 From chaim.rieger at gmail.com Thu Oct 15 09:01:39 2015 From: chaim.rieger at gmail.com (Chaim Rieger) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 02:01:39 -0700 Subject: IPv6 and Android auto conf In-Reply-To: <20150928152039.GG1518@bamboo.slabnet.com> References: <20150928152039.GG1518@bamboo.slabnet.com> Message-ID: On the nexus 5, if you are running android 6, you should enable older style dhcp. It can be found in the dev section. From rsk at gsp.org Thu Oct 15 09:43:52 2015 From: rsk at gsp.org (Rich Kulawiec) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 05:43:52 -0400 Subject: IP-Echelon Compliance In-Reply-To: References: <008ED77F-18AF-4AA6-9C18-613ACAEA1155@ip-echelon.com> <561CCA8C.9000701@web2objects.com> <19C5A440-61A1-4574-81FB-8BDAE6779051@dataix.net> <20151014103756.GA12883@gsp.org> Message-ID: <20151015094352.GA1283@gsp.org> On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 11:19:00AM -0700, George Herbert wrote: > These guys are in violation of CAN-SPAM. They're also in violation of the DMCA itself. 17 USC 512 includes this requirement for those filing DMCA notifications: (vi) A statement that the information in the notification is accurate, and under penalty of perjury, that the complaining party is authorized to act on behalf of the owner of an exclusive right that is allegedly infringed. (See https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/512 for full text.) It's obvious from the comments in this thread there are no attempts whatsoever to ensure that the information in these notifications is accurate, that they're sending these notifications to operations under the jurisdiction of US law, and that they're sending them to the relevant/correct operations. ---rsk From contact at winterei.se Thu Oct 15 11:25:16 2015 From: contact at winterei.se (Paul S.) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 20:25:16 +0900 Subject: Packetfront/Waystream gear In-Reply-To: <561EC468.1070101@direcpath.com> References: <561EC468.1070101@direcpath.com> Message-ID: <561F8D1C.8070103@winterei.se> Their products seem to be named 'MPC' or 'ASR,' reminds me of J and C respectively. Very unique way of naming things, I must say. On 10/15/2015 06:08 AM, rdrake wrote: > Does anyone have experience running Packetfront hardware in a > production network? We've looked at a few and they seem to be pretty > good but I want to know if they have downsides. > > We're looking at them for edge switches now and thinking about if they > can be site routers or switches (either a q-in-q vlan handoff to a > ring or a separate L3 with routing protocols depending on how the site > is accessed) > > You can contact me offlist if you don't want to talk about it publicly. > > Thanks, > Robert From randy at psg.com Thu Oct 15 11:42:58 2015 From: randy at psg.com (Randy Bush) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 13:42:58 +0200 Subject: geek whois Message-ID: anyone else having problems wiht geek whois today? randy From rps at maine.edu Thu Oct 15 12:22:21 2015 From: rps at maine.edu (Ray Soucy) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 08:22:21 -0400 Subject: Android and DHCPv6 again In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Android does not have a complete IPv6 implementation and should not be IPv6 enabled. Please do your part and complain to Google that Android does not support DHCPv6 for address assignment. On Sat, Oct 3, 2015 at 9:52 PM, Baldur Norddahl wrote: > Hi > > I noticed that my Nexus 9 tablet did not have any IPv6 although everything > else in my house is IPv6 enabled. Then I noticed that my Samsung S6 was > also without IPv6. Hmm. > > A little work with tcpdump and I got this: > > 03:27:15.978826 IP6 (hlim 255, next-header ICMPv6 (58) payload length: 120) > fe80::222:7ff:fe49:ffad > ip6-allnodes: [icmp6 sum ok] ICMP6, router > advertisement, length 120 > hop limit 0, Flags [*managed*, other stateful], pref medium, router > lifetime 1800s, reachable time 0s, retrans time 0s > source link-address option (1), length 8 (1): 00:22:07:49:ff:ad > mtu option (5), length 8 (1): 1500 > prefix info option (3), length 32 (4): 2a00:7660:5c6::/64, Flags [onlink, > *auto*], valid time 7040s, pref. time 1800s > unknown option (24), length 16 (2): > 0x0000: 3000 0000 1b80 2a00 7660 05c6 0000 > > So my CPE is actually doing DHCPv6 and some nice people at Google decided > that it will be better for me to be without IPv6 in that case :-(. > > But it also has the auto flag, so Android should be able to do SLAAC yes? > > My Macbook Pro currently has the following set of addresses: > > en0: flags=8863 mtu 1500 > ether 3c:15:c2:ba:76:d4 > inet6 fe80::3e15:c2ff:feba:76d4%en0 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x4 > inet 192.168.1.214 netmask 0xffffff00 broadcast 192.168.1.255 > inet6 2a00:7660:5c6::3e15:c2ff:feba:76d4 prefixlen 64 autoconf > inet6 2a00:7660:5c6::b5a5:5839:ca0f:267e prefixlen 64 autoconf temporary > inet6 2a00:7660:5c6::899 prefixlen 64 dynamic > nd6 options=1 > media: autoselect > status: active > > To me it seems that the Macbook has one SLAAC address, one privacy > extension address and one DHCPv6 managed address. > > In fact the CPE manufacturer is a little clever here. They gave me an easy > address that I can use to access my computer ("899") while still allowing > SLAAC and privacy extensions. If I want to open ports in my firewall I > could do that to the "899" address. > > But why is my Android devices without IPv6 in this setup? > > Regards, > > Baldur > -- *Ray Patrick Soucy* Network Engineer I Networkmaine, University of Maine System US:IT 207-561-3526 From arnaud at pnzone.net Thu Oct 15 13:05:40 2015 From: arnaud at pnzone.net (Arnaud de Prelle) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 15:05:40 +0200 Subject: Microsoft / Outlook.com contact??? In-Reply-To: <561EEC21.6050304@garlic.com> References: <561D5AA7.6060104@garlic.com> <20151013204423.535d736c@ispx.vb.futz.org> <561DA620.2020600@garlic.com> <20151013212645.7986b943@ispx.vb.futz.org> <6f2dcec3f317c53c7e107a84834dc39d.squirrel@secure.kapu.net> <561EEC21.6050304@garlic.com> Message-ID: <81a7288bfe53fc51ba63b757179c6806@icecube.pnzone.net> On 2015-10-15 01:58, Robert Glover wrote: > On 10/13/2015 10:49 PM, Michael J Wise wrote: >> Unfortunately, that's not going to work if the refusal reason was >> FBLW15 >> (or TBLW15). >> >> You're not dealing with an issue on the Outlook/Hotmail side of the >> house. >> >> If you had provided the last two octets, I might have been able to >> give >> some advice earlier, but alas, everyone seems loathe to actually say >> which >> IP is having issues. > > IP in question: 65.111.224.51 > > Not trying to hide anything, but seeing the posts with obfuscated IPs > has rubbed off on me I suppose (for better or for worse. > > I appreciate if you can help us out here. > > -Bobby Hi Robert, I just experienced the same problem. It took 10 days before I got delisted without explanation. My IP is clean, never blacklisted, SPF+DKIM+DMARC, present in DNSWL.org, etc. Note that I had no issues for sending emails to @outlook.com. I only had issues (#FBLW15) when sending emails to Office365/ExchangeOnline users (i.e. @dowcorning.com in this case). Best Regards, Arnaud. From oscar.vives at gmail.com Thu Oct 15 13:50:14 2015 From: oscar.vives at gmail.com (Tei) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 15:50:14 +0200 Subject: Microsoft blocking mail In-Reply-To: References: <14278.1442510549@turing-police.cc.vt.edu> Message-ID: On 18 September 2015 at 10:45, Marcin Cieslak wrote: > On Fri, 18 Sep 2015, Tei wrote: > >> On 18 September 2015 at 04:48, Keith Medcalf wrote: >> > >> > Being blocked is probably a good thing ... >> >> >> CGI forms that do the validation in the serverside are not up to >> modern expectations*. You want to do validation clientside. > > If you do client-side and no server-side, you have a huge security problem. > > ~Marcin By now is a industry standard. You have to do the validation serverside and clientside. This of course mean duplicated code. ( Excessively clever people have tried to solve the problem by using the same language/code in both the clientside and serverside. But this feels to me like a overreaction and you will be writing code unrelated to this in a new (?) language.... On top the... heurhg... creative pipelining.. to make the whole fa?ade works.) Collesterol High Clients + Collesterol High Servers. Unrelated: this is a funny article http://carlos.bueno.org/2014/11/cache.html -- -- ?in del ?ensaje. From baptiste at bitsofnetworks.org Wed Oct 14 17:07:14 2015 From: baptiste at bitsofnetworks.org (Baptiste Jonglez) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 19:07:14 +0200 Subject: Google's peering, GGC, and congestion management Message-ID: <20151014170714.GA16087@lud.polynome.dn42> Hi, In its peering documentation [https://peering.google.com/about/traffic_management.html], Google claims that it can drive peering links at 100% utilisation: > Congestion management > > Peering ports with Google can be run at 100% capacity in the short term, > with low (<1-2%) packet loss. Please note that an ICMP ping may display > packet loss due to ICMP rate limiting on our platforms. Please contact > us to arrange a peering upgrade. How do they achieve this? More generally, is there any published work on how Google serves content from its CDN, the Google Global Cache? I'm especially interested in two aspects: - for a given eyeball network, on which basis are the CDN nodes selected? - is Google able to spread traffic over distinct peering links for the same eyeball network, in case some of the peering links become congested? If so, how do they measure congestion? Thanks for your input, Baptiste -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: not available URL: From patrick at ianai.net Thu Oct 15 14:35:41 2015 From: patrick at ianai.net (Patrick W. Gilmore) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 10:35:41 -0400 Subject: Google's peering, GGC, and congestion management In-Reply-To: <20151014170714.GA16087@lud.polynome.dn42> References: <20151014170714.GA16087@lud.polynome.dn42> Message-ID: <40EAB231-AC6E-4C79-B408-99F3517C540F@ianai.net> On Oct 14, 2015, at 1:07 PM, Baptiste Jonglez wrote: > In its peering documentation [https://peering.google.com/about/traffic_management.html], > Google claims that it can drive peering links at 100% utilisation: > >> Congestion management >> >> Peering ports with Google can be run at 100% capacity in the short term, >> with low (<1-2%) packet loss. Please note that an ICMP ping may display >> packet loss due to ICMP rate limiting on our platforms. Please contact >> us to arrange a peering upgrade. > > How do they achieve this? The 100% number is silly. My guess? They?re at 98%. That is easily do-able because all the traffic is coming from them. Coordinate the HTTPd on each of the servers to serve traffic at X bytes per second, ensure you have enough buffer in the switches for micro-bursts, check the NICs for silliness such as jitter, and so on. It is non-trivial, but definitely solvable. Google is not the only company who can do this. Akamai has done it far longer. And Akamai has a much more difficult traffic mix, with -paying customers- to deal with. > More generally, is there any published work on how Google serves content > from its CDN, the Google Global Cache? I'm especially interested in two > aspects: > > - for a given eyeball network, on which basis are the CDN nodes selected? As for picking which GGC for each eyeball, that is called ?mapping?. It varies among the different CDNs. Netflix drives it mostly from the client. That has some -major- advantages over other CDNs. Google has in the past (haven?t checked in over a year) done it by giving each user a different URL, although I think they use DNS now. Akamai uses mostly DNS, although they have at least experimented with other ways. Etc., etc. > - is Google able to spread traffic over distinct peering links for the > same eyeball network, in case some of the peering links become > congested? If so, how do they measure congestion? Yes. Easily. User 1 asks for Stream 1, Google sends them them to Node 1. Google notices Link 1 is near full. User 2 asks for Stream 2, Google sends them to Node 2, which uses Link 2. This is possible for any set of Users, Streams, Nodes, and Links. It is even possible to send User 2 to Node 2 when User 2 wants Stream 1. Or sending User 1 to Node 2 for their second request despite the fact they just got a stream from Node 1. There are few, if any, restrictions on the combinations. Remember, they control the servers. All CDNs (that matter) can do this. They can re-direct users with different URLs, different DNS responses, 302s, etc., etc. It is not BGP. Everything is much easier when you are one of the end points. (Or both, like with Netflix.) When you are just an ISP shuffling packets you neither send nor receive, things are both simpler and harder. -- TTFN, patrick -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 872 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: From randy at psg.com Thu Oct 15 14:44:23 2015 From: randy at psg.com (Randy Bush) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 16:44:23 +0200 Subject: geek whois In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > anyone else having problems wiht geek whois today? not geek whois at all. geek faulty memory. alias whois='whois -h whois-servers.net' randy From me at geordish.org Thu Oct 15 14:52:23 2015 From: me at geordish.org (Dave Bell) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 15:52:23 +0100 Subject: Android and DHCPv6 again In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 15 October 2015 at 13:22, Ray Soucy wrote: > Android does not have a complete IPv6 implementation and should not be IPv6 > enabled. Please do your part and complain to Google that Android does not > support DHCPv6 for address assignment. I use android devices on my network with IPv6 connectivity, and no issues at all. It gets an address. Does DNS via IPv6, and can send packets over IPv6. I don't use or need DHCPv6. You may not be able to roll out IPv6 to them because you need DHCPv6. In this case I suggest you complain to Google. Other people may not be able to roll out IPv6 to them because they need DHCPv6. They should also complain to Google. Suggesting that nobody rolls out IPv6 on them because they don't support one feature they may not even need is absurd. DHCPv6 is not a prerequisite for IPv6. Regards, Dave From A.L.M.Buxey at lboro.ac.uk Thu Oct 15 14:57:35 2015 From: A.L.M.Buxey at lboro.ac.uk (A.L.M.Buxey at lboro.ac.uk) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 14:57:35 +0000 Subject: Android and DHCPv6 again In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20151015145735.GD24922@lboro.ac.uk> Hi, > Android does not have a complete IPv6 implementation and should not be IPv6 > enabled. Please do your part and complain to Google that Android does not > support DHCPv6 for address assignment. no different to other devices historically.... it can get IPv6 connectivity via SLAAC and then rely on DHCP (v4!) for getting IPv4 DNS servers to which it can send AAAA records. very much like OSX used to be..... alan From nwarren at barryelectric.com Thu Oct 15 15:20:52 2015 From: nwarren at barryelectric.com (Nicholas Warren) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 15:20:52 +0000 Subject: Android and DHCPv6 again In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Excuse my ignorance, but can DHCPv6 and SLAAC be run in parallel? Thank you, - Nich > -----Original Message----- > From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces at nanog.org] On Behalf Of Dave Bell > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2015 9:52 AM > To: Ray Soucy > Cc: nanog at nanog.org > Subject: Re: Android and DHCPv6 again > > On 15 October 2015 at 13:22, Ray Soucy wrote: > > Android does not have a complete IPv6 implementation and should not be > > IPv6 enabled. Please do your part and complain to Google that Android > > does not support DHCPv6 for address assignment. > I use android devices on my network with IPv6 connectivity, and no issues > at all. It gets an address. Does DNS via IPv6, and can send packets over > IPv6. I don't use or need DHCPv6. > > You may not be able to roll out IPv6 to them because you need DHCPv6. > In this case I suggest you complain to Google. Other people may not be > able to roll out IPv6 to them because they need DHCPv6. They should also > complain to Google. Suggesting that nobody rolls out IPv6 on them because > they don't support one feature they may not even need is absurd. DHCPv6 is > not a prerequisite for IPv6. > > Regards, > Dave -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 4845 bytes Desc: not available URL: From anders at abundo.se Thu Oct 15 15:22:52 2015 From: anders at abundo.se (=?UTF-8?Q?Anders_L=c3=b6winger?=) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 17:22:52 +0200 Subject: Packetfront/Waystream gear In-Reply-To: <561F8D1C.8070103@winterei.se> References: <561EC468.1070101@direcpath.com> <561F8D1C.8070103@winterei.se> Message-ID: <561FC4CC.7080908@abundo.se> > Their products seem to be named 'MPC' or 'ASR,' reminds me of J and C > respectively. PacketFront/Waystream actually owns the ASR trademark. We got quite surprised when Cisco released their ASR routers.... (Yes, I did work there from 2004-2011) /Anders From mhuff at ox.com Thu Oct 15 15:38:59 2015 From: mhuff at ox.com (Matthew Huff) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 15:38:59 +0000 Subject: Android and DHCPv6 again In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <372253aac982468f97dfa4c9ff91d6ea@pur-vm-exch13n1.ox.com> Yes, SLAAC by default provides the address and default gateway (RA) If SLAAC managed flag is set, then DHCPv6 is used get the address and other configs (DNS, etc..) If SLAAC other flag is set, then SLAAC provides the address, and uses DHCPv6 to get the other configs (DNS, etc..) With SLAAC and without DHCPv6 the device has no way of knowing the DNS server and other configs such as search domain, etc... RFC 6106 provides a new feature that allows devices to obtain DNS from RA, but not all devices and network equipment support it yet. For devices that don't support RFC 6106 or DHCPv6, then it has to use IPv4 (DHCPv4) to get the IPv4 DNS address. -----Original Message----- From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces at nanog.org] On Behalf Of Nicholas Warren Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2015 11:21 AM To: Dave Bell Cc: nanog at nanog.org Subject: RE: Android and DHCPv6 again Excuse my ignorance, but can DHCPv6 and SLAAC be run in parallel? Thank you, - Nich > -----Original Message----- > From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces at nanog.org] On Behalf Of Dave Bell > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2015 9:52 AM > To: Ray Soucy > Cc: nanog at nanog.org > Subject: Re: Android and DHCPv6 again > > On 15 October 2015 at 13:22, Ray Soucy wrote: > > Android does not have a complete IPv6 implementation and should not be > > IPv6 enabled. Please do your part and complain to Google that Android > > does not support DHCPv6 for address assignment. > I use android devices on my network with IPv6 connectivity, and no issues > at all. It gets an address. Does DNS via IPv6, and can send packets over > IPv6. I don't use or need DHCPv6. > > You may not be able to roll out IPv6 to them because you need DHCPv6. > In this case I suggest you complain to Google. Other people may not be > able to roll out IPv6 to them because they need DHCPv6. They should also > complain to Google. Suggesting that nobody rolls out IPv6 on them because > they don't support one feature they may not even need is absurd. DHCPv6 is > not a prerequisite for IPv6. > > Regards, > Dave From baldur.norddahl at gmail.com Thu Oct 15 15:46:01 2015 From: baldur.norddahl at gmail.com (Baldur Norddahl) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 17:46:01 +0200 Subject: Android and DHCPv6 again In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yes but Android refuses to do IPv6 if there is any DHCPv6 on the network. It is a bug. Regards Baldur Den 15. okt. 2015 17.22 skrev "Nicholas Warren" : > Excuse my ignorance, but can DHCPv6 and SLAAC be run in parallel? > > Thank you, > - Nich > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces at nanog.org] On Behalf Of Dave Bell > > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2015 9:52 AM > > To: Ray Soucy > > Cc: nanog at nanog.org > > Subject: Re: Android and DHCPv6 again > > > > On 15 October 2015 at 13:22, Ray Soucy wrote: > > > Android does not have a complete IPv6 implementation and should not be > > > IPv6 enabled. Please do your part and complain to Google that Android > > > does not support DHCPv6 for address assignment. > > I use android devices on my network with IPv6 connectivity, and no issues > > at all. It gets an address. Does DNS via IPv6, and can send packets over > > IPv6. I don't use or need DHCPv6. > > > > You may not be able to roll out IPv6 to them because you need DHCPv6. > > In this case I suggest you complain to Google. Other people may not be > > able to roll out IPv6 to them because they need DHCPv6. They should also > > complain to Google. Suggesting that nobody rolls out IPv6 on them because > > they don't support one feature they may not even need is absurd. DHCPv6 > is > > not a prerequisite for IPv6. > > > > Regards, > > Dave > From sander at steffann.nl Thu Oct 15 15:52:25 2015 From: sander at steffann.nl (Sander Steffann) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 17:52:25 +0200 Subject: Android and DHCPv6 again In-Reply-To: <372253aac982468f97dfa4c9ff91d6ea@pur-vm-exch13n1.ox.com> References: <372253aac982468f97dfa4c9ff91d6ea@pur-vm-exch13n1.ox.com> Message-ID: Hi, > SLAAC by default provides the address and default gateway (RA) > If SLAAC managed flag is set, then DHCPv6 is used get the address and other configs (DNS, etc..) > If SLAAC other flag is set, then SLAAC provides the address, and uses DHCPv6 to get the other configs (DNS, etc..) It's even more flexible than that :) The Managed flag indicates if there is a DHCPv6 server that can provide addresses and other config The Other Config flag indicates if there is a DHCPv6 server that can provide other config Besides those flags each prefix that is advertised in the RA has an Autonomous flag which tells the clients if they are allowed to do SLAAC. So you can do all kinds of nice setups. For example you can advertise both the Managed and the Autonomous flags so that devices can get a DHCPv6-managed address (maybe for running services or for remote management) and get SLAAC addresses (for example for privacy extensions so they cannot be identified by their address when connecting to the internet). Or you can advertise multiple prefixes and allow Autonomous configuration in one and provide addresses in the other with DHCPv6. I admit that you can also make things extremely complex for yourself, but it's certainly flexible! ;) Cheers, Sander From larrysheldon at cox.net Thu Oct 15 17:32:51 2015 From: larrysheldon at cox.net (Larry Sheldon) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 12:32:51 -0500 Subject: Spamhaus contact needed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <561FE343.60506@cox.net> On 10/15/2015 00:27, Jason Baugher wrote: > Sorry to clutter up this list with an email issue, but hopefully someone is > here from Spamhaus that can contact me off-list. I have a customer whose IP > keeps getting listed in the CBL, and even after doing packet captures of > everything in and out of their network, I still can't find a reason for it. I have been off the line for quite a while, but as I recollect there is no "Spamhaus contact" aside from the search engine they provide for their database. You look-up you IP, they tell you what the problem is, you fix it, and the block goes away. It always used to work. Every time. -- sed quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (Juvenal) From jason at thebaughers.com Thu Oct 15 17:41:56 2015 From: jason at thebaughers.com (Jason Baugher) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 12:41:56 -0500 Subject: Spamhaus contact needed In-Reply-To: <561FE343.60506@cox.net> References: <561FE343.60506@cox.net> Message-ID: When all it says is, "spam-sending trojan, malicious link, or some type of botnet", it's not a lot to go on. I've seen examples where their lookup tool provides more details, but in this case, the response is generic. In fact, usually when this happens to a customer, they're able to figure out the problem without a lot of fuss and keep it from happening again. Sometimes we have to help them, but it's always something fairly obvious. It's only in this one case that we're struggling to identify the cause. Thank you to those that pointed out their email address on the FAQ page. How I managed to read through there and miss it, I'll never know. On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 12:32 PM, Larry Sheldon wrote: > On 10/15/2015 00:27, Jason Baugher wrote: > >> Sorry to clutter up this list with an email issue, but hopefully someone >> is >> here from Spamhaus that can contact me off-list. I have a customer whose >> IP >> keeps getting listed in the CBL, and even after doing packet captures of >> everything in and out of their network, I still can't find a reason for >> it. >> > > I have been off the line for quite a while, but as I recollect there is no > "Spamhaus contact" aside from the search engine they provide for their > database. > > You look-up you IP, they tell you what the problem is, you fix it, and the > block goes away. > > It always used to work. Every time. > > > -- > sed quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (Juvenal) > From larrysheldon at cox.net Thu Oct 15 18:27:20 2015 From: larrysheldon at cox.net (Larry Sheldon) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 13:27:20 -0500 Subject: Spamhaus contact needed In-Reply-To: <561FE343.60506@cox.net> References: <561FE343.60506@cox.net> Message-ID: <561FF008.1030008@cox.net> On 10/15/2015 12:32, Larry Sheldon wrote: > On 10/15/2015 00:27, Jason Baugher wrote: >> Sorry to clutter up this list with an email issue, but hopefully >> someone is >> here from Spamhaus that can contact me off-list. I have a customer >> whose IP >> keeps getting listed in the CBL, and even after doing packet captures of >> everything in and out of their network, I still can't find a reason >> for it. > > I have been off the line for quite a while, but as I recollect there is > no "Spamhaus contact" aside from the search engine they provide for > their database. > > You look-up your IP, they tell you what the problem is, you fix it, and > the block goes away. > > It always used to work. Every time. WAIT A MINUTE! "CBL" is not "Spamhaus", is it?! http://www.abuseat.org/ -- sed quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (Juvenal) From larrysheldon at cox.net Thu Oct 15 18:29:25 2015 From: larrysheldon at cox.net (Larry Sheldon) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 13:29:25 -0500 Subject: Spamhaus contact needed In-Reply-To: <561FF008.1030008@cox.net> References: <561FE343.60506@cox.net> <561FF008.1030008@cox.net> Message-ID: <561FF085.2000302@cox.net> On 10/15/2015 13:27, Larry Sheldon wrote: > On 10/15/2015 12:32, Larry Sheldon wrote: >> On 10/15/2015 00:27, Jason Baugher wrote: >>> Sorry to clutter up this list with an email issue, but hopefully >>> someone is >>> here from Spamhaus that can contact me off-list. I have a customer >>> whose IP >>> keeps getting listed in the CBL, and even after doing packet captures of >>> everything in and out of their network, I still can't find a reason >>> for it. >> >> I have been off the line for quite a while, but as I recollect there is >> no "Spamhaus contact" aside from the search engine they provide for >> their database. >> >> You look-up your IP, they tell you what the problem is, you fix it, and >> the block goes away. >> >> It always used to work. Every time. > > WAIT A MINUTE! "CBL" is not "Spamhaus", is it?! > > http://www.abuseat.org/ MY BAD! Yes, it is "spamhaus". Sorry. -- sed quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (Juvenal) From lists at mtin.net Thu Oct 15 18:38:05 2015 From: lists at mtin.net (Justin Wilson - MTIN) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 14:38:05 -0400 Subject: Cogent BGP Woes Message-ID: <637E560A-C727-455D-9907-CE7A7C3CEDC4@mtin.net> Have the rest of you been having as hard a time I am having in turning up BgP sessions with Cogent? They have made it a sales order nowadays instead of support. I filled out the questionnaire on the support site over 3 weeks ago and was directed to sales. I am going on 3 weeks waiting on a session to be turned up. Just wondering if I am alone. Justin Wilson j2sw at mtin.net --- http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO xISP Solutions- Consulting ? Data Centers - Bandwidth http://www.midwest-ix.com COO/Chairman Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric From josh at imaginenetworksllc.com Thu Oct 15 18:43:02 2015 From: josh at imaginenetworksllc.com (Josh Luthman) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 14:43:02 -0400 Subject: Cogent BGP Woes In-Reply-To: <637E560A-C727-455D-9907-CE7A7C3CEDC4@mtin.net> References: <637E560A-C727-455D-9907-CE7A7C3CEDC4@mtin.net> Message-ID: TWC is this way. They ignore it. I had to find someone responsible and it took a day or two. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Oct 15, 2015 11:40 AM, "Justin Wilson - MTIN" wrote: > Have the rest of you been having as hard a time I am having in turning up > BgP sessions with Cogent? They have made it a sales order nowadays instead > of support. I filled out the questionnaire on the support site over 3 weeks > ago and was directed to sales. I am going on 3 weeks waiting on a session > to be turned up. > > Just wondering if I am alone. > > > Justin Wilson > j2sw at mtin.net > > --- > http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO > xISP Solutions- Consulting ? Data Centers - Bandwidth > > http://www.midwest-ix.com COO/Chairman > Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric > > From jj at anexia.at Thu Oct 15 18:44:52 2015 From: jj at anexia.at (=?utf-8?B?SsO8cmdlbiBKYXJpdHNjaA==?=) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 18:44:52 +0000 Subject: AW: Cogent BGP Woes In-Reply-To: <637E560A-C727-455D-9907-CE7A7C3CEDC4@mtin.net> References: <637E560A-C727-455D-9907-CE7A7C3CEDC4@mtin.net> Message-ID: <002d1f22708547e8a78b4ae23b8d686b@anx-i-dag02.anx.local> Hi Justin, no issues in the past 6 months ... neither in Kiev nor in Dublin ... most of the time solved within 2-3 days. best regards J?rgen Jaritsch Head of Network & Infrastructure ANEXIA Internetdienstleistungs GmbH Telefon: +43-5-0556-300 Telefax: +43-5-0556-500 E-Mail: JJaritsch at anexia-it.com Web: http://www.anexia-it.com Anschrift Hauptsitz Klagenfurt: Feldkirchnerstra?e 140, 9020 Klagenfurt Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Alexander Windbichler Firmenbuch: FN 289918a | Gerichtsstand: Klagenfurt | UID-Nummer: AT U63216601 -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces at nanog.org] Im Auftrag von Justin Wilson - MTIN Gesendet: Donnerstag, 15. Oktober 2015 20:38 An: NANOG Betreff: Cogent BGP Woes Have the rest of you been having as hard a time I am having in turning up BgP sessions with Cogent? They have made it a sales order nowadays instead of support. I filled out the questionnaire on the support site over 3 weeks ago and was directed to sales. I am going on 3 weeks waiting on a session to be turned up. Just wondering if I am alone. Justin Wilson j2sw at mtin.net --- http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO xISP Solutions- Consulting ? Data Centers - Bandwidth http://www.midwest-ix.com COO/Chairman Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric From hvgeekwtrvl at gmail.com Thu Oct 15 18:47:34 2015 From: hvgeekwtrvl at gmail.com (james machado) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 11:47:34 -0700 Subject: Cogent BGP Woes In-Reply-To: <637E560A-C727-455D-9907-CE7A7C3CEDC4@mtin.net> References: <637E560A-C727-455D-9907-CE7A7C3CEDC4@mtin.net> Message-ID: Justin, What are you trying to do? I had a similar situation as my rep got the wrong product for BGP. I actually cleaned it up by talking to support and I had to fill out a second BGP questionnaire but it was resolved and turned up in a couple of days. James On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 11:38 AM, Justin Wilson - MTIN wrote: > Have the rest of you been having as hard a time I am having in turning up BgP sessions with Cogent? They have made it a sales order nowadays instead of support. I filled out the questionnaire on the support site over 3 weeks ago and was directed to sales. I am going on 3 weeks waiting on a session to be turned up. > > Just wondering if I am alone. > > > Justin Wilson > j2sw at mtin.net > > --- > http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO > xISP Solutions- Consulting ? Data Centers - Bandwidth > > http://www.midwest-ix.com COO/Chairman > Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric > From damien at supremebytes.com Thu Oct 15 18:51:17 2015 From: damien at supremebytes.com (Damien Burke) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 18:51:17 +0000 Subject: Cogent BGP Woes In-Reply-To: <002d1f22708547e8a78b4ae23b8d686b@anx-i-dag02.anx.local> References: <637E560A-C727-455D-9907-CE7A7C3CEDC4@mtin.net> <002d1f22708547e8a78b4ae23b8d686b@anx-i-dag02.anx.local> Message-ID: <2FD50E6D13594B4C93B743BFCF9F52842FE730BC@EXCH01.sb.local> I have not had a problem. Reach out to your account manager and have them put a rush on it. I just did this last week and had no problem getting it setup. If you don?t know your account manager reach out to: Smith, Christopher (csmith at cogentco.com) -----Original Message----- From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces at nanog.org] On Behalf Of J?rgen Jaritsch Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2015 11:45 AM To: Justin Wilson - MTIN; NANOG Subject: AW: Cogent BGP Woes Hi Justin, no issues in the past 6 months ... neither in Kiev nor in Dublin ... most of the time solved within 2-3 days. best regards J?rgen Jaritsch Head of Network & Infrastructure ANEXIA Internetdienstleistungs GmbH Telefon: +43-5-0556-300 Telefax: +43-5-0556-500 E-Mail: JJaritsch at anexia-it.com Web: http://www.anexia-it.com Anschrift Hauptsitz Klagenfurt: Feldkirchnerstra?e 140, 9020 Klagenfurt Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Alexander Windbichler Firmenbuch: FN 289918a | Gerichtsstand: Klagenfurt | UID-Nummer: AT U63216601 -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces at nanog.org] Im Auftrag von Justin Wilson - MTIN Gesendet: Donnerstag, 15. Oktober 2015 20:38 An: NANOG Betreff: Cogent BGP Woes Have the rest of you been having as hard a time I am having in turning up BgP sessions with Cogent? They have made it a sales order nowadays instead of support. I filled out the questionnaire on the support site over 3 weeks ago and was directed to sales. I am going on 3 weeks waiting on a session to be turned up. Just wondering if I am alone. Justin Wilson j2sw at mtin.net --- http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO xISP Solutions- Consulting ? Data Centers - Bandwidth http://www.midwest-ix.com COO/Chairman Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric From owen at delong.com Thu Oct 15 19:21:53 2015 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 12:21:53 -0700 Subject: IPv6 Irony. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01A30FF6-ED07-40AD-960B-5BC54B457F43@delong.com> Getting IPv6 to the masses without giving them the ability to get their IPv6 problems resolved seems not like a long-tail issue so much as a really poor choice of deployment plans. Just my $0.02. Owen > On Oct 12, 2015, at 20:17 , Ca By wrote: > > On Monday, October 12, 2015, Donn Lasher wrote: > >> >> Having just returned from NANOG65/ARIN36, and hearing about how far IPv6 >> has come.. I find my experience with support today >> Ironic. >> >> Oh wait.. >> >> Hi, my name is Donn, and I?m speaking for? myself. >> >> Irony is a cable provider, one of the largest, and earliest adopters of >> IPv6, having ZERO IPv6 support available via phone, chat, or email. And >> being pointed, by all of those contact methods, to a single website. A >> static website. In 2015, when IPv4 is officially exhausted. >> >> :sigh: >> >> >> > Tech support websites are long tail > > Pragmatists are focused on getting ipv6 to the masses by default in > high traffic use cases. > > Sighing about edge cases in the long tail with ipv6 ... Not sure what you > expect. > > outtages> > > CB From baldur.norddahl at gmail.com Thu Oct 15 19:50:30 2015 From: baldur.norddahl at gmail.com (Baldur Norddahl) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 21:50:30 +0200 Subject: Google's peering, GGC, and congestion management In-Reply-To: <40EAB231-AC6E-4C79-B408-99F3517C540F@ianai.net> References: <20151014170714.GA16087@lud.polynome.dn42> <40EAB231-AC6E-4C79-B408-99F3517C540F@ianai.net> Message-ID: On 15 October 2015 at 16:35, Patrick W. Gilmore wrote: > The 100% number is silly. My guess? They?re at 98%. > > That is easily do-able because all the traffic is coming from them. > Coordinate the HTTPd on each of the servers to serve traffic at X bytes per > second, ensure you have enough buffer in the switches for micro-bursts, > check the NICs for silliness such as jitter, and so on. It is non-trivial, > but definitely solvable. > You would not need to control the servers to do this. All you need is the usual hash function of src+dst ip+port to map sessions into buckets and then dynamically compute how big a fraction of the buckets to route through a different path. A bit surprising that this is not a standard feature on routers. Regards, Baldur From patrick at ianai.net Thu Oct 15 20:00:33 2015 From: patrick at ianai.net (Patrick W. Gilmore) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 16:00:33 -0400 Subject: Google's peering, GGC, and congestion management In-Reply-To: References: <20151014170714.GA16087@lud.polynome.dn42> <40EAB231-AC6E-4C79-B408-99F3517C540F@ianai.net> Message-ID: On Oct 15, 2015, at 3:50 PM, Baldur Norddahl wrote: > On 15 October 2015 at 16:35, Patrick W. Gilmore wrote: >> The 100% number is silly. My guess? They?re at 98%. >> >> That is easily do-able because all the traffic is coming from them. >> Coordinate the HTTPd on each of the servers to serve traffic at X bytes per >> second, ensure you have enough buffer in the switches for micro-bursts, >> check the NICs for silliness such as jitter, and so on. It is non-trivial, >> but definitely solvable. >> > > You would not need to control the servers to do this. All you need is the > usual hash function of src+dst ip+port to map sessions into buckets and > then dynamically compute how big a fraction of the buckets to route through > a different path. > > A bit surprising that this is not a standard feature on routers. The reason routers do not do that is what you suggest would not work. First, you make the incorrect assumption that inbound will never exceed outbound. Almost all CDN nodes have far more capacity between the servers and the router than the router has to the rest of the world. And CDN nodes are probably the least complicated example in large networks. The only way to ensure A < B is to control A or B - and usually A. Second, the router has no idea how much traffic is coming in at any particular moment. Unless you are willing to move streams mid-flow, you can?t guarantee this will work even if sum(in) < sum(out). Your idea would put Flow N on Port X when the SYN (or SYN/ACK) hits. How do you know how many Mbps that flow will be? You do not, therefore you cannot do it right. And do not say you?ll wait for the first few packets and move then. Flows are not static. Third?. Actually, since 1 & 2 are each sufficient to show why it doesn?t work, not sure I need to go through the next N reasons. But there are plenty more. -- TTFN, patrick From jim at reptiles.org Thu Oct 15 20:45:43 2015 From: jim at reptiles.org (Jim Mercer) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 16:45:43 -0400 Subject: ultradns / neustar outage? Message-ID: <20151015204543.GK1857@reptiles.org> hi, we are hosting some domains at ultradns, and they all seem to be dead. anyone else seeing issues? --jim -- Jim Mercer Reptilian Research jim at reptiles.org +1 416 410-5633 Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride!" -- Hunter S. Thompson From digitallystoned at gmail.com Thu Oct 15 20:49:11 2015 From: digitallystoned at gmail.com (N M) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 15:49:11 -0500 Subject: ultradns / neustar outage? In-Reply-To: <20151015204543.GK1857@reptiles.org> References: <20151015204543.GK1857@reptiles.org> Message-ID: Neustar ultradns dashboard shows the service is unavailable On Oct 15, 2015 3:47 PM, "Jim Mercer" wrote: > hi, > > we are hosting some domains at ultradns, and they all seem to be dead. > > anyone else seeing issues? > > --jim > > -- > Jim Mercer Reptilian Research jim at reptiles.org +1 416 410-5633 > > Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of > arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather > to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, > totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride!" > -- Hunter S. Thompson > From baldur.norddahl at gmail.com Thu Oct 15 21:13:17 2015 From: baldur.norddahl at gmail.com (Baldur Norddahl) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 23:13:17 +0200 Subject: Google's peering, GGC, and congestion management In-Reply-To: References: <20151014170714.GA16087@lud.polynome.dn42> <40EAB231-AC6E-4C79-B408-99F3517C540F@ianai.net> Message-ID: On 15 October 2015 at 22:00, Patrick W. Gilmore wrote: > The reason routers do not do that is what you suggest would not work. > > Of course it will work and it is in fact exactly the same as your own suggestion, just implemented in the network. Besides it _is already_ a standard feature, it is called equal cost multipath routing. The only difference is dynamically changing the weights between the multipaths. > First, you make the incorrect assumption that inbound will never exceed > outbound. Almost all CDN nodes have far more capacity between the servers > and the router than the router has to the rest of the world. And CDN nodes > are probably the least complicated example in large networks. The only way > to ensure A < B is to control A or B - and usually A. > I make absolutely no assumptions about ingress (towards the ASN) as we have no control of that. There is no requirement that routing is symmetric and it is the responsibility of whoever controls the ingress to do something if the port is overloaded in that direction. In the case of a CDN however, the ingress will be very little. Netflix does not take much data in from their customers, it is all egress traffic towards the customers and the CDN is in control of that. The same goes for Google. Two non CDN peers could use the system, but if the traffic level is symmetric then they better both do it. > Second, the router has no idea how much traffic is coming in at any > particular moment. Unless you are willing to move streams mid-flow, you > can?t guarantee this will work even if sum(in) < sum(out). Your idea would > put Flow N on Port X when the SYN (or SYN/ACK) hits. How do you know how > many Mbps that flow will be? You do not, therefore you cannot do it right. > And do not say you?ll wait for the first few packets and move then. Flows > are not static. > Flows can move at any time in a BGP network. As we are talking about CDNs we can assume that we have many many small flows (compared to port size). We can be fairly sure that traffic will not make huge jumps from one second to the next - you will have a nice curve here. You know exactly how much traffic you had the last time period, both out through the contested port and through the alternative paths. Recalculating the weights is just a matter of assuming that the next time period will be the same or that the delta will be the same. It is a classic control loop problem. TCP is trying to do much the same btw. You can adjust how close to 100% you want the algorithm to hit. If it performs badly, give it a little bit more space. If the time period is one second, flows can move once a second at maximum and very few flows would be likely to move. You could get a few out of order packets on your flow, which is not such a big issue in a rare event. > Third?. Actually, since 1 & 2 are each sufficient to show why it doesn?t > work, not sure I need to go through the next N reasons. But there are > plenty more. > There are more reasons why this problem is hard to do on the servers :-). Regards, Baldur From patrick at ianai.net Thu Oct 15 21:46:31 2015 From: patrick at ianai.net (Patrick W. Gilmore) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 17:46:31 -0400 Subject: Google's peering, GGC, and congestion management In-Reply-To: References: <20151014170714.GA16087@lud.polynome.dn42> <40EAB231-AC6E-4C79-B408-99F3517C540F@ianai.net> Message-ID: On Oct 15, 2015, at 5:13 PM, Baldur Norddahl wrote: > On 15 October 2015 at 22:00, Patrick W. Gilmore wrote: > >> The reason routers do not do that is what you suggest would not work. >> >> > Of course it will work and it is in fact exactly the same as your own > suggestion, just implemented in the network. Besides it _is already_ a > standard feature, it is called equal cost multipath routing. The only > difference is dynamically changing the weights between the multipaths. You are confused. But I think I see the source of your confusion. Perhaps you are only considering a single port on a multi-port router with many paths to the same destination. Sure, if you want to say when Port X gets full (FSVO ?full?), move some flows to the second best path. Yes, that is physically possible. However, that is a tiny fraction of CDN Mapping. Plus you have a vast number of assumptions - not the least of which is that there _is_ another port to move traffic to. How many CDN nodes have you seen? You think most of them have a ton of ports to a slew of different networks? Or do they plonk a bunch of servers behind a single router (or switch!) connected to a single network (since most of them are _inside_ that network)? My original point is the CDN can control how much traffic is sent to each destination. Routers cannot do this. BTW: What you suggest breaks a lot of other things - which may or may not be a good trade off for avoiding congesting individual ports. But the idea to make identical IP path decisions inside a single router non-deterministic is .. let?s call it questionable. >> First, you make the incorrect assumption that inbound will never exceed >> outbound. Almost all CDN nodes have far more capacity between the servers >> and the router than the router has to the rest of the world. And CDN nodes >> are probably the least complicated example in large networks. The only way >> to ensure A < B is to control A or B - and usually A. >> > > I make absolutely no assumptions about ingress (towards the ASN) as we have > no control of that. There is no requirement that routing is symmetric and > it is the responsibility of whoever controls the ingress to do something if > the port is overloaded in that direction. In the case of a CDN however, the > ingress will be very little. Netflix does not take much data in from their > customers, it is all egress traffic towards the customers and the CDN is in > control of that. The same goes for Google. > > Two non CDN peers could use the system, but if the traffic level is > symmetric then they better both do it. You are still confused. I have 48 servers connected @ GigE to a router with 4 x 10G outbound. When all 48 get nailed, where in the hell does the extra 8 Gbps go? While if I own the CDN, I can easily ensure those 48 servers never push more than 40 Gbps. Or even 20 Gbps to any single destination. Or even 10 Mbps to any single destination. The CDN can ensure the router is -never- congested. The router itself cannot do that. >> Second, the router has no idea how much traffic is coming in at any >> particular moment. Unless you are willing to move streams mid-flow, you >> can?t guarantee this will work even if sum(in) < sum(out). Your idea would >> put Flow N on Port X when the SYN (or SYN/ACK) hits. How do you know how >> many Mbps that flow will be? You do not, therefore you cannot do it right. >> And do not say you?ll wait for the first few packets and move then. Flows >> are not static. >> > > Flows can move at any time in a BGP network. As we are talking about CDNs > we can assume that we have many many small flows (compared to port size). > We can be fairly sure that traffic will not make huge jumps from one second > to the next - you will have a nice curve here. You know exactly how much > traffic you had the last time period, both out through the contested port > and through the alternative paths. Recalculating the weights is just a > matter of assuming that the next time period will be the same or that the > delta will be the same. It is a classic control loop problem. TCP is trying > to do much the same btw. > > You can adjust how close to 100% you want the algorithm to hit. If it > performs badly, give it a little bit more space. > > If the time period is one second, flows can move once a second at maximum > and very few flows would be likely to move. You could get a few out of > order packets on your flow, which is not such a big issue in a rare event. This makes me lean towards my original idea that you have a total of one port on one router being considered. Perhaps that is what the OP meant. If so, sure, have at it. If they are interested in how CDN Mapping works, not even close. >> Third?. Actually, since 1 & 2 are each sufficient to show why it doesn?t >> work, not sure I need to go through the next N reasons. But there are >> plenty more. >> > > There are more reasons why this problem is hard to do on the servers :-). The problem is VERY hard on the servers. Or, more precisely, on the control plane (which is frequently not on the servers themselves). But the difference between ?it's hard? and ?it's un-possible? is kinda important. -- TTFN, patrick From curtis at generous.com Thu Oct 15 21:46:19 2015 From: curtis at generous.com (Curtis Generous) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 17:46:19 -0400 Subject: ultradns / neustar outage? In-Reply-To: References: <20151015204543.GK1857@reptiles.org> Message-ID: Our DNS is hosted by UltraDNS, and are unreachable. Anyone else impacted? On 10/15/15, 4:49 PM, "NANOG on behalf of N M" wrote: >*This message was transferred with a trial version of CommuniGate(r) Pro* >Neustar ultradns dashboard shows the service is unavailable >On Oct 15, 2015 3:47 PM, "Jim Mercer" wrote: > >> hi, >> >> we are hosting some domains at ultradns, and they all seem to be dead. >> >> anyone else seeing issues? >> >> --jim >> >> -- >> Jim Mercer Reptilian Research jim at reptiles.org +1 416 >>410-5633 >> >> Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of >> arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather >> to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, >> totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride!" >> -- Hunter S. Thompson >> From hugo at slabnet.com Thu Oct 15 21:56:02 2015 From: hugo at slabnet.com (Hugo Slabbert) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 14:56:02 -0700 Subject: ultradns / neustar outage? In-Reply-To: References: <20151015204543.GK1857@reptiles.org> Message-ID: <20151015215602.GC15250@bamboo.slabnet.com> On Thu 2015-Oct-15 17:46:19 -0400, Curtis Generous wrote: >Our DNS is hosted by UltraDNS, and are unreachable. >Anyone else impacted? Lots of people; primarily East Coast. This is being discussed on outages as well. https://twitter.com/search?q=ultradns From an UltraDNS customer on outages: >= >Important Notice Regarding UltraDNS Service > >The Neustar UltraDNS service is currently experiencing DDoS traffic in the >U.S. East Region. The Security Operations Team is currently working on >mitigating attack traffic and further updates will be provided as soon as >possible. > >Sincerely, >Neustar Support Department >= -- Hugo -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From lorenzo at colitti.com Fri Oct 16 01:55:35 2015 From: lorenzo at colitti.com (Lorenzo Colitti) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 10:55:35 +0900 Subject: Android and DHCPv6 again In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Oct 16, 2015 at 12:46 AM, Baldur Norddahl wrote: > Yes but Android refuses to do IPv6 if there is any DHCPv6 on the network. > It is a bug. > That would indeed be a bug, but I'm not aware of such a bug. As long as the network provides SLAAC as well as DHCPv6, IPv6 should work. If anyone can reproduce this on a Nexus device, please file a bug. Android 5.x does have a bug where if you send the device a default route via RA and don't provide addressing via SLAAC (i.e., if you do DHCPv6-only), and also have IPv6 on the cellular network, the device gets confused. That should be fixed in 6.0. From dave.taht at gmail.com Fri Oct 16 02:03:55 2015 From: dave.taht at gmail.com (Dave Taht) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 04:03:55 +0200 Subject: the fcc vs wifi lockdown issue Message-ID: I had hoped to have seen some discussion of what vint cerf, myself, linus torvalds, jim gettys, dave farber, and 260 others just cooked up as to solve the edge device, wifi, and iot security problems we face. Press release here: http://businesswire.com/news/home/20151014005564/en/Global-Internet-Experts-Reveal-Plan-Secure-Reliable Document as submitted to the fcc here: http://fqcodel.bufferbloat.net/~d/fcc_saner_software_practices.pdf Dave T?ht http://www.bufferbloat.net/projects/bloat/wiki/Daves_Media_Guidance From baldur.norddahl at gmail.com Fri Oct 16 02:24:21 2015 From: baldur.norddahl at gmail.com (Baldur Norddahl) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 04:24:21 +0200 Subject: sfp "computer"? Message-ID: Hi Does anyone make a SFP with a system on chip "computer" that you can run a small embedded linux on? I am sure it can be done because I have a "GPON stick" which is basically a ONU with a small embedded Linux all on a SFP module. Does get fairly hot however. My application is to run some small things that I feel is missing in my switches/routers. Plug in this imaginary "SFP computer" to enhance the switch with a small Linux. The SFP slot provides both networking and power to the device. Regards, Baldur From Daniel.Jameson at tdstelecom.com Fri Oct 16 02:47:50 2015 From: Daniel.Jameson at tdstelecom.com (Jameson, Daniel) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 02:47:50 +0000 Subject: sfp "computer"? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Mk802 might get you close. Sub $50 plus a couple adapters. ________________________________ From: NANOG on behalf of Baldur Norddahl Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2015 9:24:21 PM To: nanog at nanog.org Subject: sfp "computer"? Hi Does anyone make a SFP with a system on chip "computer" that you can run a small embedded linux on? I am sure it can be done because I have a "GPON stick" which is basically a ONU with a small embedded Linux all on a SFP module. Does get fairly hot however. My application is to run some small things that I feel is missing in my switches/routers. Plug in this imaginary "SFP computer" to enhance the switch with a small Linux. The SFP slot provides both networking and power to the device. Regards, Baldur From baldur.norddahl at gmail.com Fri Oct 16 03:23:45 2015 From: baldur.norddahl at gmail.com (Baldur Norddahl) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 05:23:45 +0200 Subject: sfp "computer"? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, The problem with that is the lack of power options. I got -48V DC. And no USB port to power any devices. Regards, Baldur On 16 October 2015 at 04:47, Jameson, Daniel wrote: > Mk802 might get you close. Sub $50 plus a couple adapters. > > ------------------------------ > *From:* NANOG on behalf of Baldur Norddahl > *Sent:* Thursday, October 15, 2015 9:24:21 PM > *To:* nanog at nanog.org > *Subject:* sfp "computer"? > > Hi > > Does anyone make a SFP with a system on chip "computer" that you can run a > small embedded linux on? > > I am sure it can be done because I have a "GPON stick" which is basically a > ONU with a small embedded Linux all on a SFP module. Does get fairly hot > however. > > My application is to run some small things that I feel is missing in my > switches/routers. Plug in this imaginary "SFP computer" to enhance the > switch with a small Linux. The SFP slot provides both networking and power > to the device. > > Regards, > > Baldur > From lists at mtin.net Fri Oct 16 03:47:30 2015 From: lists at mtin.net (Justin Wilson - MTIN) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 23:47:30 -0400 Subject: Cogent BGP Woes In-Reply-To: References: <637E560A-C727-455D-9907-CE7A7C3CEDC4@mtin.net> Message-ID: <23430E9F-68D5-491C-A9D6-BDC5C98289D9@mtin.net> I am trying to turn up BGP on a circuit that ha never had it. In the past, you went to the support portal, filled out the questionnaire and in a day or so you would have you bgp info. When I did that this time I received a prompt response back from support saying this is now handled by sales and gave me the sales person to contact. Contacted sales person almost 3 weeks ago. Had to wait until the direct draft credited before they could put any new orders in. On a side note, Cogent is the only provider I know of that does not credit electronic payments within 24-48 hours. All of ours take 5 business days. Once thats done, e-mail the sales person back. No response for a few days. Call a manager and get them involved. 2 more weeks we still don?t have BGP on this circuit. A minimum of 1 e-mail a day asking for status updates. Last response was ?Everything was entered in the system?. I guess I don?t understand why a sales order has to be entered for BGP. This adds an extra step, which in this case has been a major fail. Justin Wilson j2sw at mtin.net --- http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO xISP Solutions- Consulting ? Data Centers - Bandwidth http://www.midwest-ix.com COO/Chairman Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric On Oct 15, 2015, at 2:47 PM, james machado wrote: Justin, What are you trying to do? I had a similar situation as my rep got the wrong product for BGP. I actually cleaned it up by talking to support and I had to fill out a second BGP questionnaire but it was resolved and turned up in a couple of days. James On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 11:38 AM, Justin Wilson - MTIN wrote: Have the rest of you been having as hard a time I am having in turning up BgP sessions with Cogent? They have made it a sales order nowadays instead of support. I filled out the questionnaire on the support site over 3 weeks ago and was directed to sales. I am going on 3 weeks waiting on a session to be turned up. Just wondering if I am alone. Justin Wilson j2sw at mtin.net --- http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO xISP Solutions- Consulting ? Data Centers - Bandwidth http://www.midwest-ix.com COO/Chairman Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric From lists at mtin.net Fri Oct 16 03:47:38 2015 From: lists at mtin.net (Justin Wilson - MTIN) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 23:47:38 -0400 Subject: Cogent BGP Woes In-Reply-To: References: <637E560A-C727-455D-9907-CE7A7C3CEDC4@mtin.net> Message-ID: <2E1F041E-CCDF-491F-BA03-B3D36FBC629A@mtin.net> I am trying to turn up BGP on a circuit that ha never had it. In the past, you went to the support portal, filled out the questionnaire and in a day or so you would have you bgp info. When I did that this time I received a prompt response back from support saying this is now handled by sales and gave me the sales person to contact. Contacted sales person almost 3 weeks ago. Had to wait until the direct draft credited before they could put any new orders in. On a side note, Cogent is the only provider I know of that does not credit electronic payments within 24-48 hours. All of ours take 5 business days. Once thats done, e-mail the sales person back. No response for a few days. Call a manager and get them involved. 2 more weeks we still don?t have BGP on this circuit. A minimum of 1 e-mail a day asking for status updates. Last response was ?Everything was entered in the system?. I guess I don?t understand why a sales order has to be entered for BGP. This adds an extra step, which in this case has been a major fail. Justin Wilson j2sw at mtin.net --- http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO xISP Solutions- Consulting ? Data Centers - Bandwidth http://www.midwest-ix.com COO/Chairman Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric On Oct 15, 2015, at 2:47 PM, james machado > wrote: Justin, What are you trying to do? I had a similar situation as my rep got the wrong product for BGP. I actually cleaned it up by talking to support and I had to fill out a second BGP questionnaire but it was resolved and turned up in a couple of days. James On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 11:38 AM, Justin Wilson - MTIN > wrote: Have the rest of you been having as hard a time I am having in turning up BgP sessions with Cogent? They have made it a sales order nowadays instead of support. I filled out the questionnaire on the support site over 3 weeks ago and was directed to sales. I am going on 3 weeks waiting on a session to be turned up. Just wondering if I am alone. Justin Wilson j2sw at mtin.net --- http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO xISP Solutions- Consulting ? Data Centers - Bandwidth http://www.midwest-ix.com COO/Chairman Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric From carlos at race.com Fri Oct 16 05:12:05 2015 From: carlos at race.com (Carlos Alcantar) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 05:12:05 +0000 Subject: Cogent BGP Woes In-Reply-To: <2E1F041E-CCDF-491F-BA03-B3D36FBC629A@mtin.net> References: <637E560A-C727-455D-9907-CE7A7C3CEDC4@mtin.net> , <2E1F041E-CCDF-491F-BA03-B3D36FBC629A@mtin.net> Message-ID: Sales now handled it because they bill now for having a bgp session. ? Carlos Alcantar Race Communications / Race Team Member 1325 Howard Ave. #604, Burlingame, CA. 94010 Phone: +1 415 376 3314 / carlos at race.com / http://www.race.com ________________________________________ From: NANOG on behalf of Justin Wilson - MTIN Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2015 8:47 PM To: NANOG Subject: Re: Cogent BGP Woes I am trying to turn up BGP on a circuit that ha never had it. In the past, you went to the support portal, filled out the questionnaire and in a day or so you would have you bgp info. When I did that this time I received a prompt response back from support saying this is now handled by sales and gave me the sales person to contact. Contacted sales person almost 3 weeks ago. Had to wait until the direct draft credited before they could put any new orders in. On a side note, Cogent is the only provider I know of that does not credit electronic payments within 24-48 hours. All of ours take 5 business days. Once thats done, e-mail the sales person back. No response for a few days. Call a manager and get them involved. 2 more weeks we still don?t have BGP on this circuit. A minimum of 1 e-mail a day asking for status updates. Last response was ?Everything was entered in the system?. I guess I don?t understand why a sales order has to be entered for BGP. This adds an extra step, which in this case has been a major fail. Justin Wilson j2sw at mtin.net --- http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO xISP Solutions- Consulting ? Data Centers - Bandwidth http://www.midwest-ix.com COO/Chairman Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric On Oct 15, 2015, at 2:47 PM, james machado > wrote: Justin, What are you trying to do? I had a similar situation as my rep got the wrong product for BGP. I actually cleaned it up by talking to support and I had to fill out a second BGP questionnaire but it was resolved and turned up in a couple of days. James On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 11:38 AM, Justin Wilson - MTIN > wrote: Have the rest of you been having as hard a time I am having in turning up BgP sessions with Cogent? They have made it a sales order nowadays instead of support. I filled out the questionnaire on the support site over 3 weeks ago and was directed to sales. I am going on 3 weeks waiting on a session to be turned up. Just wondering if I am alone. Justin Wilson j2sw at mtin.net --- http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO xISP Solutions- Consulting ? Data Centers - Bandwidth http://www.midwest-ix.com COO/Chairman Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric From joelja at bogus.com Fri Oct 16 06:11:44 2015 From: joelja at bogus.com (joel jaeggli) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 23:11:44 -0700 Subject: sfp "computer"? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <56209520.8060306@bogus.com> On 10/15/15 8:23 PM, Baldur Norddahl wrote: > Hi, > > The problem with that is the lack of power options. I got -48V DC. And no > USB port to power any devices. step it down (buck converter) to 5v and use a raspberry pi http://www.st.com/web/en/catalog/sense_power/FM142/CL1456/SC355/PF63205 > Regards, > > Baldur > > > On 16 October 2015 at 04:47, Jameson, Daniel > wrote: > >> Mk802 might get you close. Sub $50 plus a couple adapters. >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* NANOG on behalf of Baldur Norddahl >> *Sent:* Thursday, October 15, 2015 9:24:21 PM >> *To:* nanog at nanog.org >> *Subject:* sfp "computer"? >> >> Hi >> >> Does anyone make a SFP with a system on chip "computer" that you can run a >> small embedded linux on? >> >> I am sure it can be done because I have a "GPON stick" which is basically a >> ONU with a small embedded Linux all on a SFP module. Does get fairly hot >> however. >> >> My application is to run some small things that I feel is missing in my >> switches/routers. Plug in this imaginary "SFP computer" to enhance the >> switch with a small Linux. The SFP slot provides both networking and power >> to the device. >> >> Regards, >> >> Baldur >> > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 229 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From alejandroacostaalamo at gmail.com Fri Oct 16 06:15:34 2015 From: alejandroacostaalamo at gmail.com (Alejandro Acosta) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 01:45:34 -0430 Subject: the fcc vs wifi lockdown issue In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <56209606.6070206@gmail.com> Quite interesting..., please keep us posted. Good luck with this. Regards, Alejandro, El 10/15/2015 a las 9:33 PM, Dave Taht escribi?: > I had hoped to have seen some discussion of what vint cerf, myself, > linus torvalds, jim gettys, dave farber, and 260 others just cooked up > as to solve the edge device, wifi, and iot security problems we face. > > Press release here: > > http://businesswire.com/news/home/20151014005564/en/Global-Internet-Experts-Reveal-Plan-Secure-Reliable > > Document as submitted to the fcc here: > > http://fqcodel.bufferbloat.net/~d/fcc_saner_software_practices.pdf > > > Dave T?ht > http://www.bufferbloat.net/projects/bloat/wiki/Daves_Media_Guidance From mark.tinka at seacom.mu Fri Oct 16 06:17:31 2015 From: mark.tinka at seacom.mu (Mark Tinka) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 08:17:31 +0200 Subject: Google's peering, GGC, and congestion management In-Reply-To: <40EAB231-AC6E-4C79-B408-99F3517C540F@ianai.net> References: <20151014170714.GA16087@lud.polynome.dn42> <40EAB231-AC6E-4C79-B408-99F3517C540F@ianai.net> Message-ID: <5620967B.4050706@seacom.mu> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 15/Oct/15 16:35, Patrick W. Gilmore wrote: > > > Remember, they control the servers. All CDNs (that matter) can do this. They can re-direct users with different URLs, different DNS responses, 302s, etc., etc. It is not BGP. Of course, some other CDN's don't use DNS, and instead use BGP by Anycasting target IP addresses locally. Of course, the challenge with this is that those CDN's need to have their own IP addresses in the markets they serve, while the DNS-based CDN's can use IP addresses of the local network with whom they host. I find the latter easier for ISP's, but I'm sure many of the CDN's find the former easier for them, particularly with the lack of IPv4 space in all but one region. Mark. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJWIJZ7AAoJEGcZuYTeKm+GAM8P/3TtFp7cC/38rfa+ygtsXfgv lz0IqLSbV0+U32SIjMl9F7/oH58zepC0LHmQOm4mbD+oyDSfuV7arzOyS9f4kALC dR1fjd+hHv9EVNvobt3TSyDkRlFYc71WzqusD3L7h7yxpdvq7ILmOW3/9t/TkJDA mxln2vt8WbfHYUg16IQL060us5k2JP82At+L9LHT6IQ4QmtaUQQXXA77Cmht6U+F VUAkdT23jdK3xee4/qbzgwu3XWo06d4XhcmqCCZBwV8BpDG53rNvHyMe7am0WKIF WMj6WSUWfXJAjfhPWfLKMY9zfRtVJPj52bsKzGlRiEulaQol4aSjRBWbloQsJkm4 sbWi7ldj9YmhFkWg1iNOSq4Ek7WlVJoOVpqUZ0S/t0/bAciFjgU/9pSQsWRxSyoc wsLVqxcUarCg6EM6Ya1P0+9N2t+Qc/DSv+cRHIIwc9unxBgyCnJ4+1S8jPHFDfHD T/nCvqGtnPAqT9j8qJCkvcUB44YNv7pjHCCZQz8y8aAff9j+dXHAi/CXp/ZoiOrS 1AEassLSW0kk4GnmAz5AfeSJeV2mRonrJ+yZuPZMzEdCPQfK28X2yD2E97A4uG1z VyAzKHzkNDmvkwTEjY3vn/GzgDLvlZuum8zghe0/7TYOl24fpdcXiA4XmZQXGwnt yaxhXTOhcU3FbqfOVUfm =Vgbr -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From mark.tinka at seacom.mu Fri Oct 16 06:19:38 2015 From: mark.tinka at seacom.mu (Mark Tinka) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 08:19:38 +0200 Subject: Google's peering, GGC, and congestion management In-Reply-To: <40EAB231-AC6E-4C79-B408-99F3517C540F@ianai.net> References: <20151014170714.GA16087@lud.polynome.dn42> <40EAB231-AC6E-4C79-B408-99F3517C540F@ianai.net> Message-ID: <562096FA.2030707@seacom.mu> On 15/Oct/15 16:35, Patrick W. Gilmore wrote: > > > Remember, they control the servers. All CDNs (that matter) can do > > > this. They can re-direct users with different URLs, different DNS > > > responses, 302s, etc., etc. It is not BGP. Of course, some other CDN's don't use DNS, and instead use BGP by Anycasting target IP addresses locally. Of course, the challenge with this is that those CDN's need to have their own IP addresses in the markets they serve, while the DNS-based CDN's can use IP addresses of the local network with whom they host. I find the latter easier for ISP's, but I'm sure many of the CDN's find the former easier for them, particularly with the lack of IPv4 space in all but one region. Mark. From rayw at rayw.net Fri Oct 16 06:43:19 2015 From: rayw at rayw.net (Ray Wong) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 23:43:19 -0700 Subject: sfp "computer"? In-Reply-To: <56209520.8060306@bogus.com> References: <56209520.8060306@bogus.com> Message-ID: <2A9D77D5-028B-47C3-BC11-F477CD1EBD4A@rayw.net> or step down to 12vdc and use any number of standard PC options: http://www.mini-box.com/DC-DC > On Oct 15, 2015, at 11:11 PM, joel jaeggli wrote: > > On 10/15/15 8:23 PM, Baldur Norddahl wrote: >> Hi, >> >> The problem with that is the lack of power options. I got -48V DC. And no >> USB port to power any devices. > > step it down (buck converter) to 5v and use a raspberry pi > > http://www.st.com/web/en/catalog/sense_power/FM142/CL1456/SC355/PF63205 > >> Regards, >> >> Baldur >> >> >> On 16 October 2015 at 04:47, Jameson, Daniel >> wrote: >> >>> Mk802 might get you close. Sub $50 plus a couple adapters. >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> *From:* NANOG on behalf of Baldur Norddahl >>> *Sent:* Thursday, October 15, 2015 9:24:21 PM >>> *To:* nanog at nanog.org >>> *Subject:* sfp "computer"? >>> >>> Hi >>> >>> Does anyone make a SFP with a system on chip "computer" that you can run a >>> small embedded linux on? >>> >>> I am sure it can be done because I have a "GPON stick" which is basically a >>> ONU with a small embedded Linux all on a SFP module. Does get fairly hot >>> however. >>> >>> My application is to run some small things that I feel is missing in my >>> switches/routers. Plug in this imaginary "SFP computer" to enhance the >>> switch with a small Linux. The SFP slot provides both networking and power >>> to the device. >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Baldur >>> >> > > From nanog at ics-il.net Fri Oct 16 08:36:11 2015 From: nanog at ics-il.net (Mike Hammett) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 03:36:11 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Cogent BGP Woes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <419719878.419.1444984623176.JavaMail.mhammett@ThunderFuck> Nickles and dimes... ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carlos Alcantar" To: "Justin Wilson - MTIN" , "NANOG" Sent: Friday, October 16, 2015 12:12:05 AM Subject: Re: Cogent BGP Woes Sales now handled it because they bill now for having a bgp session. Carlos Alcantar Race Communications / Race Team Member 1325 Howard Ave. #604, Burlingame, CA. 94010 Phone: +1 415 376 3314 / carlos at race.com / http://www.race.com ________________________________________ From: NANOG on behalf of Justin Wilson - MTIN Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2015 8:47 PM To: NANOG Subject: Re: Cogent BGP Woes I am trying to turn up BGP on a circuit that ha never had it. In the past, you went to the support portal, filled out the questionnaire and in a day or so you would have you bgp info. When I did that this time I received a prompt response back from support saying this is now handled by sales and gave me the sales person to contact. Contacted sales person almost 3 weeks ago. Had to wait until the direct draft credited before they could put any new orders in. On a side note, Cogent is the only provider I know of that does not credit electronic payments within 24-48 hours. All of ours take 5 business days. Once thats done, e-mail the sales person back. No response for a few days. Call a manager and get them involved. 2 more weeks we still don?t have BGP on this circuit. A minimum of 1 e-mail a day asking for status updates. Last response was ?Everything was entered in the system?. I guess I don?t understand why a sales order has to be entered for BGP. This adds an extra step, which in this case has been a major fail. Justin Wilson j2sw at mtin.net --- http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO xISP Solutions- Consulting ? Data Centers - Bandwidth http://www.midwest-ix.com COO/Chairman Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric On Oct 15, 2015, at 2:47 PM, james machado > wrote: Justin, What are you trying to do? I had a similar situation as my rep got the wrong product for BGP. I actually cleaned it up by talking to support and I had to fill out a second BGP questionnaire but it was resolved and turned up in a couple of days. James On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 11:38 AM, Justin Wilson - MTIN > wrote: Have the rest of you been having as hard a time I am having in turning up BgP sessions with Cogent? They have made it a sales order nowadays instead of support. I filled out the questionnaire on the support site over 3 weeks ago and was directed to sales. I am going on 3 weeks waiting on a session to be turned up. Just wondering if I am alone. Justin Wilson j2sw at mtin.net --- http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO xISP Solutions- Consulting ? Data Centers - Bandwidth http://www.midwest-ix.com COO/Chairman Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric From rekordmeister at gmail.com Fri Oct 16 10:50:17 2015 From: rekordmeister at gmail.com (MKS) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 10:50:17 +0000 Subject: inexpensive url-filtering db Message-ID: Hello list Now I'm looking for an inexpensive url-filtering database, for integration into a squid like solution. By inexpense I mean something that doesn't cost $50k a year. If you have references for me, feel free to contact me on- or off-list. Regards MKS Perhaps there is another mailing-list more relevant for this kind of issues? From me at anuragbhatia.com Fri Oct 16 11:08:00 2015 From: me at anuragbhatia.com (Anurag Bhatia) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 16:38:00 +0530 Subject: IPv6 and Android auto conf In-Reply-To: References: <20150928152039.GG1518@bamboo.slabnet.com> Message-ID: Intersting. Sure, would be fun to try DHCPv6. Last time when I checked only OS X was supporting it with limited sense. On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 2:31 PM, Chaim Rieger wrote: > On the nexus 5, if you are running android 6, you should enable older > style dhcp. It can be found in the dev section. > > -- Anurag Bhatia anuragbhatia.com PGP Key Fingerprint: 3115 677D 2E94 B696 651B 870C C06D D524 245E 58E2 From jjones at danrj.com Fri Oct 16 11:50:50 2015 From: jjones at danrj.com (Jerry Jones) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 06:50:50 -0500 Subject: sfp "computer"? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3124D386-5349-4A48-BB99-E68E039BA973@danrj.com> A different approach would be use one of the newer switches from Juniper and run right on the RE if you have those in your network On Oct 15, 2015, at 9:24 PM, Baldur Norddahl wrote: Hi Does anyone make a SFP with a system on chip "computer" that you can run a small embedded linux on? I am sure it can be done because I have a "GPON stick" which is basically a ONU with a small embedded Linux all on a SFP module. Does get fairly hot however. My application is to run some small things that I feel is missing in my switches/routers. Plug in this imaginary "SFP computer" to enhance the switch with a small Linux. The SFP slot provides both networking and power to the device. Regards, Baldur From randy at psg.com Fri Oct 16 11:57:02 2015 From: randy at psg.com (Randy Bush) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 13:57:02 +0200 Subject: i hate october Message-ID: jon postel died this day in 1988 abha ahuja next tuesday itojun the 29th arrrgh From rjoffe at centergate.com Fri Oct 16 12:06:07 2015 From: rjoffe at centergate.com (Rodney Joffe) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 08:06:07 -0400 Subject: i hate october In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <31CD1B98-301C-4454-9205-0ED70BC122CB@centergate.com> Though fewer and fewer of us remember them and why it sucks. Sigh. RFC2468. I can't believe I missed my midnight reminder on the list. > On Oct 16, 2015, at 7:57 AM, Randy Bush wrote: > > jon postel died this day in 1988 > abha ahuja next tuesday > itojun the 29th > > arrrgh From jason at biel-tech.com Fri Oct 16 12:29:02 2015 From: jason at biel-tech.com (Jason Biel) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 07:29:02 -0500 Subject: sfp "computer"? In-Reply-To: <3124D386-5349-4A48-BB99-E68E039BA973@danrj.com> References: <3124D386-5349-4A48-BB99-E68E039BA973@danrj.com> Message-ID: Or Arista On Fri, Oct 16, 2015 at 6:50 AM, Jerry Jones wrote: > A different approach would be use one of the newer switches from Juniper > and run right on the RE if you have those in your network > > > On Oct 15, 2015, at 9:24 PM, Baldur Norddahl > wrote: > > Hi > > Does anyone make a SFP with a system on chip "computer" that you can run a > small embedded linux on? > > I am sure it can be done because I have a "GPON stick" which is basically a > ONU with a small embedded Linux all on a SFP module. Does get fairly hot > however. > > My application is to run some small things that I feel is missing in my > switches/routers. Plug in this imaginary "SFP computer" to enhance the > switch with a small Linux. The SFP slot provides both networking and power > to the device. > > Regards, > > Baldur > > -- Jason From A.L.M.Buxey at lboro.ac.uk Fri Oct 16 12:59:09 2015 From: A.L.M.Buxey at lboro.ac.uk (A.L.M.Buxey at lboro.ac.uk) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 12:59:09 +0000 Subject: IPv6 and Android auto conf In-Reply-To: References: <20150928152039.GG1518@bamboo.slabnet.com> Message-ID: <20151016125909.GD27779@lboro.ac.uk> Hi, > Sure, would be fun to try DHCPv6. Last time when I checked only OS X was > supporting it with limited sense. Windows...... alan From list at satchell.net Fri Oct 16 13:40:49 2015 From: list at satchell.net (Stephen Satchell) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 06:40:49 -0700 Subject: IPv6 and Android auto conf In-Reply-To: References: <20150928152039.GG1518@bamboo.slabnet.com> Message-ID: <5620FE61.7070509@satchell.net> https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-US/Red_Hat_Enterprise_Linux/6/html/Deployment_Guide/s1-dhcp_for_ipv6_dhcpv6.html Applies to CentOS 7, which does not have a front-end licensing load. Find stores that sell lease return computers, and you can pick up a cheap box. On 10/16/2015 04:08 AM, Anurag Bhatia wrote: > Intersting. > > > Sure, would be fun to try DHCPv6. Last time when I checked only OS X was > supporting it with limited sense. > > On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 2:31 PM, Chaim Rieger > wrote: > >> On the nexus 5, if you are running android 6, you should enable older >> style dhcp. It can be found in the dev section. >> >> > > From sahin at eurecom.fr Fri Oct 16 13:27:03 2015 From: sahin at eurecom.fr (Merve Sahin) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 15:27:03 +0200 Subject: Telecom fraud survey Message-ID: <5620FB27.5000200@eurecom.fr> Hello, As part of our academic work, we are trying to systematize knowledge on telecom fraud, focusing on voice telephony. For this purpose, we created a high level picture that summarize and organize the fraud ecosystem in different layers, ranging from the inherent flaws in the roots of the system to the final goals of the fraudster. We are now looking for feedback from the industry experts of the field through a survey (should take 5-10 minutes to complete): https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/3CJ7HY9 The responses to this survey will be anonymous and only be used aggregated for research purposes. We will publish a research paper using the results of this study, making this work helpful for both academia and industry. Thank you for supporting our work with your valuable insights. Best regards, Merve From danturne at cisco.com Fri Oct 16 13:31:05 2015 From: danturne at cisco.com (Dan Turner (danturne)) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 13:31:05 +0000 Subject: NANOG Digest, Vol 93, Issue 16 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Android and DHCPv6 again Yes but Android refuses to do IPv6 if there is any DHCPv6 on the network. It is a bug. SLAAC by default provides the address and default gateway (RA) If SLAAC managed flag is set, then DHCPv6 is used get the address and other configs (DNS, etc..) If SLAAC other flag is set, then SLAAC provides the address, and uses DHCPv6 to get the other configs (DNS, etc..) With SLAAC and without DHCPv6 the device has no way of knowing the DNS server and other configs such as search domain, etc... RFC 6106 provides a new feature that allows devices to obtain DNS from RA, but not all devices and network equipment support it yet. For devices that don't support RFC 6106 or DHCPv6, then it has to use IPv4 (DHCPv4) to get the IPv4 DNS address. Many Thanks =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Dan Turner System Engineer | danturne at cisco.com Cisco Systems, Inc. | 2375 E. Camelback Rd. | Phoenix, AZ 85016 O. 602.778.2069 | C. 480.262.6017 | P. 800.365.4578 | TAC 800.553.2447 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= From: NANOG > on behalf of "nanog-request at nanog.org" > Reply-To: "nanog at nanog.org" > Date: Friday, October 16, 2015 at 5:00 AM To: "nanog at nanog.org" > Subject: NANOG Digest, Vol 93, Issue 16 Send NANOG mailing list submissions to nanog at nanog.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mailman.nanog.org/mailman/listinfo/nanog or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to nanog-request at nanog.org You can reach the person managing the list at nanog-owner at nanog.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of NANOG digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Android and DHCPv6 again (Ray Soucy) 2. Re: Microsoft / Outlook.com contact??? (Arnaud de Prelle) 3. Re: Microsoft blocking mail (Tei) 4. Google's peering, GGC, and congestion management (Baptiste Jonglez) 5. Re: Google's peering, GGC, and congestion management (Patrick W. Gilmore) 6. Re: geek whois (Randy Bush) 7. Re: Android and DHCPv6 again (Dave Bell) 8. Re: Android and DHCPv6 again (A.L.M.Buxey at lboro.ac.uk) 9. RE: Android and DHCPv6 again (Nicholas Warren) 10. Re: Packetfront/Waystream gear (Anders L?winger) 11. RE: Android and DHCPv6 again (Matthew Huff) 12. RE: Android and DHCPv6 again (Baldur Norddahl) 13. Re: Android and DHCPv6 again (Sander Steffann) 14. Re: Spamhaus contact needed (Larry Sheldon) 15. Re: Spamhaus contact needed (Jason Baugher) 16. Re: Spamhaus contact needed (Larry Sheldon) 17. Re: Spamhaus contact needed (Larry Sheldon) 18. Cogent BGP Woes (Justin Wilson - MTIN) 19. Re: Cogent BGP Woes (Josh Luthman) 20. AW: Cogent BGP Woes (J?rgen Jaritsch) 21. Re: Cogent BGP Woes (james machado) 22. RE: Cogent BGP Woes (Damien Burke) 23. Re: IPv6 Irony. (Owen DeLong) 24. Re: Google's peering, GGC, and congestion management (Baldur Norddahl) 25. Re: Google's peering, GGC, and congestion management (Patrick W. Gilmore) 26. ultradns / neustar outage? (Jim Mercer) 27. Re: ultradns / neustar outage? (N M) 28. Re: Google's peering, GGC, and congestion management (Baldur Norddahl) 29. Re: Google's peering, GGC, and congestion management (Patrick W. Gilmore) 30. Re: ultradns / neustar outage? (Curtis Generous) 31. Re: ultradns / neustar outage? (Hugo Slabbert) 32. Re: Android and DHCPv6 again (Lorenzo Colitti) 33. the fcc vs wifi lockdown issue (Dave Taht) 34. sfp "computer"? (Baldur Norddahl) 35. RE: sfp "computer"? (Jameson, Daniel) 36. Re: sfp "computer"? (Baldur Norddahl) 37. Re: Cogent BGP Woes (Justin Wilson - MTIN) 38. Re: Cogent BGP Woes (Justin Wilson - MTIN) 39. Re: Cogent BGP Woes (Carlos Alcantar) 40. Re: sfp "computer"? (joel jaeggli) 41. Re: the fcc vs wifi lockdown issue (Alejandro Acosta) 42. Re: Google's peering, GGC, and congestion management (Mark Tinka) 43. Re: Google's peering, GGC, and congestion management (Mark Tinka) 44. Re: sfp "computer"? (Ray Wong) 45. Re: Cogent BGP Woes (Mike Hammett) 46. inexpensive url-filtering db (MKS) 47. Re: IPv6 and Android auto conf (Anurag Bhatia) 48. Re: sfp "computer"? (Jerry Jones) 49. i hate october (Randy Bush) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 08:22:21 -0400 From: Ray Soucy > To: Baldur Norddahl > Cc: "nanog at nanog.org" > Subject: Re: Android and DHCPv6 again Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Android does not have a complete IPv6 implementation and should not be IPv6 enabled. Please do your part and complain to Google that Android does not support DHCPv6 for address assignment. On Sat, Oct 3, 2015 at 9:52 PM, Baldur Norddahl > wrote: Hi I noticed that my Nexus 9 tablet did not have any IPv6 although everything else in my house is IPv6 enabled. Then I noticed that my Samsung S6 was also without IPv6. Hmm. A little work with tcpdump and I got this: 03:27:15.978826 IP6 (hlim 255, next-header ICMPv6 (58) payload length: 120) fe80::222:7ff:fe49:ffad > ip6-allnodes: [icmp6 sum ok] ICMP6, router advertisement, length 120 hop limit 0, Flags [*managed*, other stateful], pref medium, router lifetime 1800s, reachable time 0s, retrans time 0s source link-address option (1), length 8 (1): 00:22:07:49:ff:ad mtu option (5), length 8 (1): 1500 prefix info option (3), length 32 (4): 2a00:7660:5c6::/64, Flags [onlink, *auto*], valid time 7040s, pref. time 1800s unknown option (24), length 16 (2): 0x0000: 3000 0000 1b80 2a00 7660 05c6 0000 So my CPE is actually doing DHCPv6 and some nice people at Google decided that it will be better for me to be without IPv6 in that case :-(. But it also has the auto flag, so Android should be able to do SLAAC yes? My Macbook Pro currently has the following set of addresses: en0: flags=8863 mtu 1500 ether 3c:15:c2:ba:76:d4 inet6 fe80::3e15:c2ff:feba:76d4%en0 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x4 inet 192.168.1.214 netmask 0xffffff00 broadcast 192.168.1.255 inet6 2a00:7660:5c6::3e15:c2ff:feba:76d4 prefixlen 64 autoconf inet6 2a00:7660:5c6::b5a5:5839:ca0f:267e prefixlen 64 autoconf temporary inet6 2a00:7660:5c6::899 prefixlen 64 dynamic nd6 options=1 media: autoselect status: active To me it seems that the Macbook has one SLAAC address, one privacy extension address and one DHCPv6 managed address. In fact the CPE manufacturer is a little clever here. They gave me an easy address that I can use to access my computer ("899") while still allowing SLAAC and privacy extensions. If I want to open ports in my firewall I could do that to the "899" address. But why is my Android devices without IPv6 in this setup? Regards, Baldur -- *Ray Patrick Soucy* Network Engineer I Networkmaine, University of Maine System US:IT 207-561-3526 ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 15:05:40 +0200 From: Arnaud de Prelle > To: Robert Glover > Cc: nanog at nanog.org Subject: Re: Microsoft / Outlook.com contact??? Message-ID: <81a7288bfe53fc51ba63b757179c6806 at icecube.pnzone.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed On 2015-10-15 01:58, Robert Glover wrote: On 10/13/2015 10:49 PM, Michael J Wise wrote: Unfortunately, that's not going to work if the refusal reason was FBLW15 (or TBLW15). You're not dealing with an issue on the Outlook/Hotmail side of the house. If you had provided the last two octets, I might have been able to give some advice earlier, but alas, everyone seems loathe to actually say which IP is having issues. IP in question: 65.111.224.51 Not trying to hide anything, but seeing the posts with obfuscated IPs has rubbed off on me I suppose (for better or for worse. I appreciate if you can help us out here. -Bobby Hi Robert, I just experienced the same problem. It took 10 days before I got delisted without explanation. My IP is clean, never blacklisted, SPF+DKIM+DMARC, present in DNSWL.org, etc. Note that I had no issues for sending emails to @outlook.com. I only had issues (#FBLW15) when sending emails to Office365/ExchangeOnline users (i.e. @dowcorning.com in this case). Best Regards, Arnaud. ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 15:50:14 +0200 From: Tei > Cc: NANOG > Subject: Re: Microsoft blocking mail Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On 18 September 2015 at 10:45, Marcin Cieslak > wrote: On Fri, 18 Sep 2015, Tei wrote: On 18 September 2015 at 04:48, Keith Medcalf > wrote: > > Being blocked is probably a good thing ... CGI forms that do the validation in the serverside are not up to modern expectations*. You want to do validation clientside. If you do client-side and no server-side, you have a huge security problem. ~Marcin By now is a industry standard. You have to do the validation serverside and clientside. This of course mean duplicated code. ( Excessively clever people have tried to solve the problem by using the same language/code in both the clientside and serverside. But this feels to me like a overreaction and you will be writing code unrelated to this in a new (?) language.... On top the... heurhg... creative pipelining.. to make the whole fa?ade works.) Collesterol High Clients + Collesterol High Servers. Unrelated: this is a funny article http://carlos.bueno.org/2014/11/cache.html -- -- ?in del ?ensaje. ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 19:07:14 +0200 From: Baptiste Jonglez > To: nanog at nanog.org Subject: Google's peering, GGC, and congestion management Message-ID: <20151014170714.GA16087 at lud.polynome.dn42> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi, In its peering documentation [https://peering.google.com/about/traffic_management.html], Google claims that it can drive peering links at 100% utilisation: Congestion management Peering ports with Google can be run at 100% capacity in the short term, with low (<1-2%) packet loss. Please note that an ICMP ping may display packet loss due to ICMP rate limiting on our platforms. Please contact us to arrange a peering upgrade. How do they achieve this? More generally, is there any published work on how Google serves content from its CDN, the Google Global Cache? I'm especially interested in two aspects: - for a given eyeball network, on which basis are the CDN nodes selected? - is Google able to spread traffic over distinct peering links for the same eyeball network, in case some of the peering links become congested? If so, how do they measure congestion? Thanks for your input, Baptiste -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: not available URL: ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 10:35:41 -0400 From: "Patrick W. Gilmore" > To: NANOG list > Subject: Re: Google's peering, GGC, and congestion management Message-ID: <40EAB231-AC6E-4C79-B408-99F3517C540F at ianai.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" On Oct 14, 2015, at 1:07 PM, Baptiste Jonglez > wrote: In its peering documentation [https://peering.google.com/about/traffic_management.html], Google claims that it can drive peering links at 100% utilisation: Congestion management Peering ports with Google can be run at 100% capacity in the short term, with low (<1-2%) packet loss. Please note that an ICMP ping may display packet loss due to ICMP rate limiting on our platforms. Please contact us to arrange a peering upgrade. How do they achieve this? The 100% number is silly. My guess? They?re at 98%. That is easily do-able because all the traffic is coming from them. Coordinate the HTTPd on each of the servers to serve traffic at X bytes per second, ensure you have enough buffer in the switches for micro-bursts, check the NICs for silliness such as jitter, and so on. It is non-trivial, but definitely solvable. Google is not the only company who can do this. Akamai has done it far longer. And Akamai has a much more difficult traffic mix, with -paying customers- to deal with. More generally, is there any published work on how Google serves content from its CDN, the Google Global Cache? I'm especially interested in two aspects: - for a given eyeball network, on which basis are the CDN nodes selected? As for picking which GGC for each eyeball, that is called ?mapping?. It varies among the different CDNs. Netflix drives it mostly from the client. That has some -major- advantages over other CDNs. Google has in the past (haven?t checked in over a year) done it by giving each user a different URL, although I think they use DNS now. Akamai uses mostly DNS, although they have at least experimented with other ways. Etc., etc. - is Google able to spread traffic over distinct peering links for the same eyeball network, in case some of the peering links become congested? If so, how do they measure congestion? Yes. Easily. User 1 asks for Stream 1, Google sends them them to Node 1. Google notices Link 1 is near full. User 2 asks for Stream 2, Google sends them to Node 2, which uses Link 2. This is possible for any set of Users, Streams, Nodes, and Links. It is even possible to send User 2 to Node 2 when User 2 wants Stream 1. Or sending User 1 to Node 2 for their second request despite the fact they just got a stream from Node 1. There are few, if any, restrictions on the combinations. Remember, they control the servers. All CDNs (that matter) can do this. They can re-direct users with different URLs, different DNS responses, 302s, etc., etc. It is not BGP. Everything is much easier when you are one of the end points. (Or both, like with Netflix.) When you are just an ISP shuffling packets you neither send nor receive, things are both simpler and harder. -- TTFN, patrick -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 872 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 16:44:23 +0200 From: Randy Bush > To: North American Network Operators' Group > Subject: Re: geek whois Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII anyone else having problems wiht geek whois today? not geek whois at all. geek faulty memory. alias whois='whois -h whois-servers.net' randy ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 15:52:23 +0100 From: Dave Bell > To: Ray Soucy > Cc: Baldur Norddahl >, "nanog at nanog.org" > Subject: Re: Android and DHCPv6 again Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On 15 October 2015 at 13:22, Ray Soucy > wrote: Android does not have a complete IPv6 implementation and should not be IPv6 enabled. Please do your part and complain to Google that Android does not support DHCPv6 for address assignment. I use android devices on my network with IPv6 connectivity, and no issues at all. It gets an address. Does DNS via IPv6, and can send packets over IPv6. I don't use or need DHCPv6. You may not be able to roll out IPv6 to them because you need DHCPv6. In this case I suggest you complain to Google. Other people may not be able to roll out IPv6 to them because they need DHCPv6. They should also complain to Google. Suggesting that nobody rolls out IPv6 on them because they don't support one feature they may not even need is absurd. DHCPv6 is not a prerequisite for IPv6. Regards, Dave ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 14:57:35 +0000 From: A.L.M.Buxey at lboro.ac.uk To: Ray Soucy > Cc: Baldur Norddahl >, "nanog at nanog.org" > Subject: Re: Android and DHCPv6 again Message-ID: <20151015145735.GD24922 at lboro.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, Android does not have a complete IPv6 implementation and should not be IPv6 enabled. Please do your part and complain to Google that Android does not support DHCPv6 for address assignment. no different to other devices historically.... it can get IPv6 connectivity via SLAAC and then rely on DHCP (v4!) for getting IPv4 DNS servers to which it can send AAAA records. very much like OSX used to be..... alan ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 15:20:52 +0000 From: Nicholas Warren > To: Dave Bell > Cc: "nanog at nanog.org" > Subject: RE: Android and DHCPv6 again Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Excuse my ignorance, but can DHCPv6 and SLAAC be run in parallel? Thank you, - Nich -----Original Message----- From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces at nanog.org] On Behalf Of Dave Bell Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2015 9:52 AM To: Ray Soucy Cc: nanog at nanog.org Subject: Re: Android and DHCPv6 again On 15 October 2015 at 13:22, Ray Soucy > wrote: > Android does not have a complete IPv6 implementation and should not be > IPv6 enabled. Please do your part and complain to Google that Android > does not support DHCPv6 for address assignment. I use android devices on my network with IPv6 connectivity, and no issues at all. It gets an address. Does DNS via IPv6, and can send packets over IPv6. I don't use or need DHCPv6. You may not be able to roll out IPv6 to them because you need DHCPv6. In this case I suggest you complain to Google. Other people may not be able to roll out IPv6 to them because they need DHCPv6. They should also complain to Google. Suggesting that nobody rolls out IPv6 on them because they don't support one feature they may not even need is absurd. DHCPv6 is not a prerequisite for IPv6. Regards, Dave -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 4845 bytes Desc: not available URL: ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 17:22:52 +0200 From: Anders L?winger > To: nanog at nanog.org Subject: Re: Packetfront/Waystream gear Message-ID: <561FC4CC.7080908 at abundo.se> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Their products seem to be named 'MPC' or 'ASR,' reminds me of J and C respectively. PacketFront/Waystream actually owns the ASR trademark. We got quite surprised when Cisco released their ASR routers.... (Yes, I did work there from 2004-2011) /Anders ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 15:38:59 +0000 From: Matthew Huff > To: Nicholas Warren >, Dave Bell > Cc: "nanog at nanog.org" > Subject: RE: Android and DHCPv6 again Message-ID: <372253aac982468f97dfa4c9ff91d6ea at pur-vm-exch13n1.ox.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Yes, SLAAC by default provides the address and default gateway (RA) If SLAAC managed flag is set, then DHCPv6 is used get the address and other configs (DNS, etc..) If SLAAC other flag is set, then SLAAC provides the address, and uses DHCPv6 to get the other configs (DNS, etc..) With SLAAC and without DHCPv6 the device has no way of knowing the DNS server and other configs such as search domain, etc... RFC 6106 provides a new feature that allows devices to obtain DNS from RA, but not all devices and network equipment support it yet. For devices that don't support RFC 6106 or DHCPv6, then it has to use IPv4 (DHCPv4) to get the IPv4 DNS address. -----Original Message----- From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces at nanog.org] On Behalf Of Nicholas Warren Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2015 11:21 AM To: Dave Bell > Cc: nanog at nanog.org Subject: RE: Android and DHCPv6 again Excuse my ignorance, but can DHCPv6 and SLAAC be run in parallel? Thank you, - Nich -----Original Message----- From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces at nanog.org] On Behalf Of Dave Bell Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2015 9:52 AM To: Ray Soucy Cc: nanog at nanog.org Subject: Re: Android and DHCPv6 again On 15 October 2015 at 13:22, Ray Soucy > wrote: > Android does not have a complete IPv6 implementation and should not be > IPv6 enabled. Please do your part and complain to Google that Android > does not support DHCPv6 for address assignment. I use android devices on my network with IPv6 connectivity, and no issues at all. It gets an address. Does DNS via IPv6, and can send packets over IPv6. I don't use or need DHCPv6. You may not be able to roll out IPv6 to them because you need DHCPv6. In this case I suggest you complain to Google. Other people may not be able to roll out IPv6 to them because they need DHCPv6. They should also complain to Google. Suggesting that nobody rolls out IPv6 on them because they don't support one feature they may not even need is absurd. DHCPv6 is not a prerequisite for IPv6. Regards, Dave ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 17:46:01 +0200 From: Baldur Norddahl > To: nanog at nanog.org Subject: RE: Android and DHCPv6 again Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Yes but Android refuses to do IPv6 if there is any DHCPv6 on the network. It is a bug. Regards Baldur Den 15. okt. 2015 17.22 skrev "Nicholas Warren" >: Excuse my ignorance, but can DHCPv6 and SLAAC be run in parallel? Thank you, - Nich > -----Original Message----- > From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces at nanog.org] On Behalf Of Dave Bell > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2015 9:52 AM > To: Ray Soucy > Cc: nanog at nanog.org > Subject: Re: Android and DHCPv6 again > > On 15 October 2015 at 13:22, Ray Soucy > wrote: > > Android does not have a complete IPv6 implementation and should not be > > IPv6 enabled. Please do your part and complain to Google that Android > > does not support DHCPv6 for address assignment. > I use android devices on my network with IPv6 connectivity, and no issues > at all. It gets an address. Does DNS via IPv6, and can send packets over > IPv6. I don't use or need DHCPv6. > > You may not be able to roll out IPv6 to them because you need DHCPv6. > In this case I suggest you complain to Google. Other people may not be > able to roll out IPv6 to them because they need DHCPv6. They should also > complain to Google. Suggesting that nobody rolls out IPv6 on them because > they don't support one feature they may not even need is absurd. DHCPv6 is > not a prerequisite for IPv6. > > Regards, > Dave ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 17:52:25 +0200 From: Sander Steffann > To: Matthew Huff > Cc: Nicholas Warren >, Dave Bell >, "nanog at nanog.org" > Subject: Re: Android and DHCPv6 again Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, SLAAC by default provides the address and default gateway (RA) If SLAAC managed flag is set, then DHCPv6 is used get the address and other configs (DNS, etc..) If SLAAC other flag is set, then SLAAC provides the address, and uses DHCPv6 to get the other configs (DNS, etc..) It's even more flexible than that :) The Managed flag indicates if there is a DHCPv6 server that can provide addresses and other config The Other Config flag indicates if there is a DHCPv6 server that can provide other config Besides those flags each prefix that is advertised in the RA has an Autonomous flag which tells the clients if they are allowed to do SLAAC. So you can do all kinds of nice setups. For example you can advertise both the Managed and the Autonomous flags so that devices can get a DHCPv6-managed address (maybe for running services or for remote management) and get SLAAC addresses (for example for privacy extensions so they cannot be identified by their address when connecting to the internet). Or you can advertise multiple prefixes and allow Autonomous configuration in one and provide addresses in the other with DHCPv6. I admit that you can also make things extremely complex for yourself, but it's certainly flexible! ;) Cheers, Sander ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 12:32:51 -0500 From: Larry Sheldon > To: nanog at nanog.org Subject: Re: Spamhaus contact needed Message-ID: <561FE343.60506 at cox.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed On 10/15/2015 00:27, Jason Baugher wrote: Sorry to clutter up this list with an email issue, but hopefully someone is here from Spamhaus that can contact me off-list. I have a customer whose IP keeps getting listed in the CBL, and even after doing packet captures of everything in and out of their network, I still can't find a reason for it. I have been off the line for quite a while, but as I recollect there is no "Spamhaus contact" aside from the search engine they provide for their database. You look-up you IP, they tell you what the problem is, you fix it, and the block goes away. It always used to work. Every time. -- sed quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (Juvenal) ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 12:41:56 -0500 From: Jason Baugher > To: Larry Sheldon > Cc: NANOG > Subject: Re: Spamhaus contact needed Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 When all it says is, "spam-sending trojan, malicious link, or some type of botnet", it's not a lot to go on. I've seen examples where their lookup tool provides more details, but in this case, the response is generic. In fact, usually when this happens to a customer, they're able to figure out the problem without a lot of fuss and keep it from happening again. Sometimes we have to help them, but it's always something fairly obvious. It's only in this one case that we're struggling to identify the cause. Thank you to those that pointed out their email address on the FAQ page. How I managed to read through there and miss it, I'll never know. On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 12:32 PM, Larry Sheldon > wrote: On 10/15/2015 00:27, Jason Baugher wrote: Sorry to clutter up this list with an email issue, but hopefully someone is here from Spamhaus that can contact me off-list. I have a customer whose IP keeps getting listed in the CBL, and even after doing packet captures of everything in and out of their network, I still can't find a reason for it. I have been off the line for quite a while, but as I recollect there is no "Spamhaus contact" aside from the search engine they provide for their database. You look-up you IP, they tell you what the problem is, you fix it, and the block goes away. It always used to work. Every time. -- sed quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (Juvenal) ------------------------------ Message: 16 Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 13:27:20 -0500 From: Larry Sheldon > To: nanog at nanog.org Subject: Re: Spamhaus contact needed Message-ID: <561FF008.1030008 at cox.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed On 10/15/2015 12:32, Larry Sheldon wrote: On 10/15/2015 00:27, Jason Baugher wrote: Sorry to clutter up this list with an email issue, but hopefully someone is here from Spamhaus that can contact me off-list. I have a customer whose IP keeps getting listed in the CBL, and even after doing packet captures of everything in and out of their network, I still can't find a reason for it. I have been off the line for quite a while, but as I recollect there is no "Spamhaus contact" aside from the search engine they provide for their database. You look-up your IP, they tell you what the problem is, you fix it, and the block goes away. It always used to work. Every time. WAIT A MINUTE! "CBL" is not "Spamhaus", is it?! http://www.abuseat.org/ -- sed quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (Juvenal) ------------------------------ Message: 17 Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 13:29:25 -0500 From: Larry Sheldon > To: nanog at nanog.org Subject: Re: Spamhaus contact needed Message-ID: <561FF085.2000302 at cox.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed On 10/15/2015 13:27, Larry Sheldon wrote: On 10/15/2015 12:32, Larry Sheldon wrote: On 10/15/2015 00:27, Jason Baugher wrote: Sorry to clutter up this list with an email issue, but hopefully someone is here from Spamhaus that can contact me off-list. I have a customer whose IP keeps getting listed in the CBL, and even after doing packet captures of everything in and out of their network, I still can't find a reason for it. I have been off the line for quite a while, but as I recollect there is no "Spamhaus contact" aside from the search engine they provide for their database. You look-up your IP, they tell you what the problem is, you fix it, and the block goes away. It always used to work. Every time. WAIT A MINUTE! "CBL" is not "Spamhaus", is it?! http://www.abuseat.org/ MY BAD! Yes, it is "spamhaus". Sorry. -- sed quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (Juvenal) ------------------------------ Message: 18 Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 14:38:05 -0400 From: Justin Wilson - MTIN > To: NANOG > Subject: Cogent BGP Woes Message-ID: <637E560A-C727-455D-9907-CE7A7C3CEDC4 at mtin.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Have the rest of you been having as hard a time I am having in turning up BgP sessions with Cogent? They have made it a sales order nowadays instead of support. I filled out the questionnaire on the support site over 3 weeks ago and was directed to sales. I am going on 3 weeks waiting on a session to be turned up. Just wondering if I am alone. Justin Wilson j2sw at mtin.net --- http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO xISP Solutions- Consulting ? Data Centers - Bandwidth http://www.midwest-ix.com COO/Chairman Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric ------------------------------ Message: 19 Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 14:43:02 -0400 From: Josh Luthman > To: Justin Wilson > Cc: NANOG list > Subject: Re: Cogent BGP Woes Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 TWC is this way. They ignore it. I had to find someone responsible and it took a day or two. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Oct 15, 2015 11:40 AM, "Justin Wilson - MTIN" > wrote: Have the rest of you been having as hard a time I am having in turning up BgP sessions with Cogent? They have made it a sales order nowadays instead of support. I filled out the questionnaire on the support site over 3 weeks ago and was directed to sales. I am going on 3 weeks waiting on a session to be turned up. Just wondering if I am alone. Justin Wilson j2sw at mtin.net --- http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO xISP Solutions- Consulting ? Data Centers - Bandwidth http://www.midwest-ix.com COO/Chairman Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric ------------------------------ Message: 20 Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 18:44:52 +0000 From: J?rgen Jaritsch > To: Justin Wilson - MTIN >, NANOG > Subject: AW: Cogent BGP Woes Message-ID: <002d1f22708547e8a78b4ae23b8d686b at anx-i-dag02.anx.local> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Hi Justin, no issues in the past 6 months ... neither in Kiev nor in Dublin ... most of the time solved within 2-3 days. best regards J?rgen Jaritsch Head of Network & Infrastructure ANEXIA Internetdienstleistungs GmbH Telefon: +43-5-0556-300 Telefax: +43-5-0556-500 E-Mail: JJaritsch at anexia-it.com Web: http://www.anexia-it.com Anschrift Hauptsitz Klagenfurt: Feldkirchnerstra?e 140, 9020 Klagenfurt Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Alexander Windbichler Firmenbuch: FN 289918a | Gerichtsstand: Klagenfurt | UID-Nummer: AT U63216601 -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces at nanog.org] Im Auftrag von Justin Wilson - MTIN Gesendet: Donnerstag, 15. Oktober 2015 20:38 An: NANOG > Betreff: Cogent BGP Woes Have the rest of you been having as hard a time I am having in turning up BgP sessions with Cogent? They have made it a sales order nowadays instead of support. I filled out the questionnaire on the support site over 3 weeks ago and was directed to sales. I am going on 3 weeks waiting on a session to be turned up. Just wondering if I am alone. Justin Wilson j2sw at mtin.net --- http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO xISP Solutions- Consulting ? Data Centers - Bandwidth http://www.midwest-ix.com COO/Chairman Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric ------------------------------ Message: 21 Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 11:47:34 -0700 From: james machado > To: Justin Wilson - MTIN > Cc: NANOG > Subject: Re: Cogent BGP Woes Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Justin, What are you trying to do? I had a similar situation as my rep got the wrong product for BGP. I actually cleaned it up by talking to support and I had to fill out a second BGP questionnaire but it was resolved and turned up in a couple of days. James On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 11:38 AM, Justin Wilson - MTIN > wrote: Have the rest of you been having as hard a time I am having in turning up BgP sessions with Cogent? They have made it a sales order nowadays instead of support. I filled out the questionnaire on the support site over 3 weeks ago and was directed to sales. I am going on 3 weeks waiting on a session to be turned up. Just wondering if I am alone. Justin Wilson j2sw at mtin.net --- http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO xISP Solutions- Consulting ? Data Centers - Bandwidth http://www.midwest-ix.com COO/Chairman Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric ------------------------------ Message: 22 Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 18:51:17 +0000 From: Damien Burke > To: J?rgen Jaritsch >, Justin Wilson - MTIN >, NANOG > Subject: RE: Cogent BGP Woes Message-ID: <2FD50E6D13594B4C93B743BFCF9F52842FE730BC at EXCH01.sb.local> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" I have not had a problem. Reach out to your account manager and have them put a rush on it. I just did this last week and had no problem getting it setup. If you don?t know your account manager reach out to: Smith, Christopher (csmith at cogentco.com) -----Original Message----- From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces at nanog.org] On Behalf Of J?rgen Jaritsch Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2015 11:45 AM To: Justin Wilson - MTIN; NANOG Subject: AW: Cogent BGP Woes Hi Justin, no issues in the past 6 months ... neither in Kiev nor in Dublin ... most of the time solved within 2-3 days. best regards J?rgen Jaritsch Head of Network & Infrastructure ANEXIA Internetdienstleistungs GmbH Telefon: +43-5-0556-300 Telefax: +43-5-0556-500 E-Mail: JJaritsch at anexia-it.com Web: http://www.anexia-it.com Anschrift Hauptsitz Klagenfurt: Feldkirchnerstra?e 140, 9020 Klagenfurt Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Alexander Windbichler Firmenbuch: FN 289918a | Gerichtsstand: Klagenfurt | UID-Nummer: AT U63216601 -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces at nanog.org] Im Auftrag von Justin Wilson - MTIN Gesendet: Donnerstag, 15. Oktober 2015 20:38 An: NANOG > Betreff: Cogent BGP Woes Have the rest of you been having as hard a time I am having in turning up BgP sessions with Cogent? They have made it a sales order nowadays instead of support. I filled out the questionnaire on the support site over 3 weeks ago and was directed to sales. I am going on 3 weeks waiting on a session to be turned up. Just wondering if I am alone. Justin Wilson j2sw at mtin.net --- http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO xISP Solutions- Consulting ? Data Centers - Bandwidth http://www.midwest-ix.com COO/Chairman Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric ------------------------------ Message: 23 Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 12:21:53 -0700 From: Owen DeLong > To: Ca By > Cc: Donn Lasher >, nanog > Subject: Re: IPv6 Irony. Message-ID: <01A30FF6-ED07-40AD-960B-5BC54B457F43 at delong.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Getting IPv6 to the masses without giving them the ability to get their IPv6 problems resolved seems not like a long-tail issue so much as a really poor choice of deployment plans. Just my $0.02. Owen On Oct 12, 2015, at 20:17 , Ca By > wrote: On Monday, October 12, 2015, Donn Lasher > wrote: Having just returned from NANOG65/ARIN36, and hearing about how far IPv6 has come.. I find my experience with support today Ironic. Oh wait.. Hi, my name is Donn, and I?m speaking for? myself. Irony is a cable provider, one of the largest, and earliest adopters of IPv6, having ZERO IPv6 support available via phone, chat, or email. And being pointed, by all of those contact methods, to a single website. A static website. In 2015, when IPv4 is officially exhausted. :sigh: Tech support websites are long tail Pragmatists are focused on getting ipv6 to the masses by default in high traffic use cases. Sighing about edge cases in the long tail with ipv6 ... Not sure what you expect. CB ------------------------------ Message: 24 Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 21:50:30 +0200 From: Baldur Norddahl > To: "nanog at nanog.org" > Subject: Re: Google's peering, GGC, and congestion management Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On 15 October 2015 at 16:35, Patrick W. Gilmore > wrote: The 100% number is silly. My guess? They?re at 98%. That is easily do-able because all the traffic is coming from them. Coordinate the HTTPd on each of the servers to serve traffic at X bytes per second, ensure you have enough buffer in the switches for micro-bursts, check the NICs for silliness such as jitter, and so on. It is non-trivial, but definitely solvable. You would not need to control the servers to do this. All you need is the usual hash function of src+dst ip+port to map sessions into buckets and then dynamically compute how big a fraction of the buckets to route through a different path. A bit surprising that this is not a standard feature on routers. Regards, Baldur ------------------------------ Message: 25 Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 16:00:33 -0400 From: "Patrick W. Gilmore" > To: NANOG list > Subject: Re: Google's peering, GGC, and congestion management Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 On Oct 15, 2015, at 3:50 PM, Baldur Norddahl > wrote: On 15 October 2015 at 16:35, Patrick W. Gilmore > wrote: The 100% number is silly. My guess? They?re at 98%. That is easily do-able because all the traffic is coming from them. Coordinate the HTTPd on each of the servers to serve traffic at X bytes per second, ensure you have enough buffer in the switches for micro-bursts, check the NICs for silliness such as jitter, and so on. It is non-trivial, but definitely solvable. You would not need to control the servers to do this. All you need is the usual hash function of src+dst ip+port to map sessions into buckets and then dynamically compute how big a fraction of the buckets to route through a different path. A bit surprising that this is not a standard feature on routers. The reason routers do not do that is what you suggest would not work. First, you make the incorrect assumption that inbound will never exceed outbound. Almost all CDN nodes have far more capacity between the servers and the router than the router has to the rest of the world. And CDN nodes are probably the least complicated example in large networks. The only way to ensure A < B is to control A or B - and usually A. Second, the router has no idea how much traffic is coming in at any particular moment. Unless you are willing to move streams mid-flow, you can?t guarantee this will work even if sum(in) < sum(out). Your idea would put Flow N on Port X when the SYN (or SYN/ACK) hits. How do you know how many Mbps that flow will be? You do not, therefore you cannot do it right. And do not say you?ll wait for the first few packets and move then. Flows are not static. Third?. Actually, since 1 & 2 are each sufficient to show why it doesn?t work, not sure I need to go through the next N reasons. But there are plenty more. -- TTFN, patrick ------------------------------ Message: 26 Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 16:45:43 -0400 From: Jim Mercer > To: nanog at nanog.org Subject: ultradns / neustar outage? Message-ID: <20151015204543.GK1857 at reptiles.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii hi, we are hosting some domains at ultradns, and they all seem to be dead. anyone else seeing issues? --jim -- Jim Mercer Reptilian Research jim at reptiles.org +1 416 410-5633 Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride!" -- Hunter S. Thompson ------------------------------ Message: 27 Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 15:49:11 -0500 From: N M > To: Jim Mercer > Cc: nanog at nanog.org Subject: Re: ultradns / neustar outage? Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Neustar ultradns dashboard shows the service is unavailable On Oct 15, 2015 3:47 PM, "Jim Mercer" > wrote: hi, we are hosting some domains at ultradns, and they all seem to be dead. anyone else seeing issues? --jim -- Jim Mercer Reptilian Research jim at reptiles.org +1 416 410-5633 Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride!" -- Hunter S. Thompson ------------------------------ Message: 28 Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 23:13:17 +0200 From: Baldur Norddahl > To: "nanog at nanog.org" > Subject: Re: Google's peering, GGC, and congestion management Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On 15 October 2015 at 22:00, Patrick W. Gilmore > wrote: The reason routers do not do that is what you suggest would not work. Of course it will work and it is in fact exactly the same as your own suggestion, just implemented in the network. Besides it _is already_ a standard feature, it is called equal cost multipath routing. The only difference is dynamically changing the weights between the multipaths. First, you make the incorrect assumption that inbound will never exceed outbound. Almost all CDN nodes have far more capacity between the servers and the router than the router has to the rest of the world. And CDN nodes are probably the least complicated example in large networks. The only way to ensure A < B is to control A or B - and usually A. I make absolutely no assumptions about ingress (towards the ASN) as we have no control of that. There is no requirement that routing is symmetric and it is the responsibility of whoever controls the ingress to do something if the port is overloaded in that direction. In the case of a CDN however, the ingress will be very little. Netflix does not take much data in from their customers, it is all egress traffic towards the customers and the CDN is in control of that. The same goes for Google. Two non CDN peers could use the system, but if the traffic level is symmetric then they better both do it. Second, the router has no idea how much traffic is coming in at any particular moment. Unless you are willing to move streams mid-flow, you can?t guarantee this will work even if sum(in) < sum(out). Your idea would put Flow N on Port X when the SYN (or SYN/ACK) hits. How do you know how many Mbps that flow will be? You do not, therefore you cannot do it right. And do not say you?ll wait for the first few packets and move then. Flows are not static. Flows can move at any time in a BGP network. As we are talking about CDNs we can assume that we have many many small flows (compared to port size). We can be fairly sure that traffic will not make huge jumps from one second to the next - you will have a nice curve here. You know exactly how much traffic you had the last time period, both out through the contested port and through the alternative paths. Recalculating the weights is just a matter of assuming that the next time period will be the same or that the delta will be the same. It is a classic control loop problem. TCP is trying to do much the same btw. You can adjust how close to 100% you want the algorithm to hit. If it performs badly, give it a little bit more space. If the time period is one second, flows can move once a second at maximum and very few flows would be likely to move. You could get a few out of order packets on your flow, which is not such a big issue in a rare event. Third?. Actually, since 1 & 2 are each sufficient to show why it doesn?t work, not sure I need to go through the next N reasons. But there are plenty more. There are more reasons why this problem is hard to do on the servers :-). Regards, Baldur ------------------------------ Message: 29 Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 17:46:31 -0400 From: "Patrick W. Gilmore" > To: NANOG list > Subject: Re: Google's peering, GGC, and congestion management Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 On Oct 15, 2015, at 5:13 PM, Baldur Norddahl > wrote: On 15 October 2015 at 22:00, Patrick W. Gilmore > wrote: The reason routers do not do that is what you suggest would not work. Of course it will work and it is in fact exactly the same as your own suggestion, just implemented in the network. Besides it _is already_ a standard feature, it is called equal cost multipath routing. The only difference is dynamically changing the weights between the multipaths. You are confused. But I think I see the source of your confusion. Perhaps you are only considering a single port on a multi-port router with many paths to the same destination. Sure, if you want to say when Port X gets full (FSVO ?full?), move some flows to the second best path. Yes, that is physically possible. However, that is a tiny fraction of CDN Mapping. Plus you have a vast number of assumptions - not the least of which is that there _is_ another port to move traffic to. How many CDN nodes have you seen? You think most of them have a ton of ports to a slew of different networks? Or do they plonk a bunch of servers behind a single router (or switch!) connected to a single network (since most of them are _inside_ that network)? My original point is the CDN can control how much traffic is sent to each destination. Routers cannot do this. BTW: What you suggest breaks a lot of other things - which may or may not be a good trade off for avoiding congesting individual ports. But the idea to make identical IP path decisions inside a single router non-deterministic is .. let?s call it questionable. First, you make the incorrect assumption that inbound will never exceed outbound. Almost all CDN nodes have far more capacity between the servers and the router than the router has to the rest of the world. And CDN nodes are probably the least complicated example in large networks. The only way to ensure A < B is to control A or B - and usually A. I make absolutely no assumptions about ingress (towards the ASN) as we have no control of that. There is no requirement that routing is symmetric and it is the responsibility of whoever controls the ingress to do something if the port is overloaded in that direction. In the case of a CDN however, the ingress will be very little. Netflix does not take much data in from their customers, it is all egress traffic towards the customers and the CDN is in control of that. The same goes for Google. Two non CDN peers could use the system, but if the traffic level is symmetric then they better both do it. You are still confused. I have 48 servers connected @ GigE to a router with 4 x 10G outbound. When all 48 get nailed, where in the hell does the extra 8 Gbps go? While if I own the CDN, I can easily ensure those 48 servers never push more than 40 Gbps. Or even 20 Gbps to any single destination. Or even 10 Mbps to any single destination. The CDN can ensure the router is -never- congested. The router itself cannot do that. Second, the router has no idea how much traffic is coming in at any particular moment. Unless you are willing to move streams mid-flow, you can?t guarantee this will work even if sum(in) < sum(out). Your idea would put Flow N on Port X when the SYN (or SYN/ACK) hits. How do you know how many Mbps that flow will be? You do not, therefore you cannot do it right. And do not say you?ll wait for the first few packets and move then. Flows are not static. Flows can move at any time in a BGP network. As we are talking about CDNs we can assume that we have many many small flows (compared to port size). We can be fairly sure that traffic will not make huge jumps from one second to the next - you will have a nice curve here. You know exactly how much traffic you had the last time period, both out through the contested port and through the alternative paths. Recalculating the weights is just a matter of assuming that the next time period will be the same or that the delta will be the same. It is a classic control loop problem. TCP is trying to do much the same btw. You can adjust how close to 100% you want the algorithm to hit. If it performs badly, give it a little bit more space. If the time period is one second, flows can move once a second at maximum and very few flows would be likely to move. You could get a few out of order packets on your flow, which is not such a big issue in a rare event. This makes me lean towards my original idea that you have a total of one port on one router being considered. Perhaps that is what the OP meant. If so, sure, have at it. If they are interested in how CDN Mapping works, not even close. Third?. Actually, since 1 & 2 are each sufficient to show why it doesn?t work, not sure I need to go through the next N reasons. But there are plenty more. There are more reasons why this problem is hard to do on the servers :-). The problem is VERY hard on the servers. Or, more precisely, on the control plane (which is frequently not on the servers themselves). But the difference between ?it's hard? and ?it's un-possible? is kinda important. -- TTFN, patrick ------------------------------ Message: 30 Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 17:46:19 -0400 From: Curtis Generous > To: > Subject: Re: ultradns / neustar outage? Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Our DNS is hosted by UltraDNS, and are unreachable. Anyone else impacted? On 10/15/15, 4:49 PM, "NANOG on behalf of N M" on behalf of digitallystoned at gmail.com> wrote: *This message was transferred with a trial version of CommuniGate(r) Pro* Neustar ultradns dashboard shows the service is unavailable On Oct 15, 2015 3:47 PM, "Jim Mercer" > wrote: hi, we are hosting some domains at ultradns, and they all seem to be dead. anyone else seeing issues? --jim -- Jim Mercer Reptilian Research jim at reptiles.org +1 416 410-5633 Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride!" -- Hunter S. Thompson ------------------------------ Message: 31 Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 14:56:02 -0700 From: Hugo Slabbert > To: Curtis Generous > Cc: nanog at nanog.org Subject: Re: ultradns / neustar outage? Message-ID: <20151015215602.GC15250 at bamboo.slabnet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" On Thu 2015-Oct-15 17:46:19 -0400, Curtis Generous > wrote: Our DNS is hosted by UltraDNS, and are unreachable. Anyone else impacted? Lots of people; primarily East Coast. This is being discussed on outages as well. https://twitter.com/search?q=ultradns >From an UltraDNS customer on outages: = Important Notice Regarding UltraDNS Service The Neustar UltraDNS service is currently experiencing DDoS traffic in the U.S. East Region. The Security Operations Team is currently working on mitigating attack traffic and further updates will be provided as soon as possible. Sincerely, Neustar Support Department = -- Hugo -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: ------------------------------ Message: 32 Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 10:55:35 +0900 From: Lorenzo Colitti > To: Baldur Norddahl > Cc: NANOG > Subject: Re: Android and DHCPv6 again Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Fri, Oct 16, 2015 at 12:46 AM, Baldur Norddahl wrote: Yes but Android refuses to do IPv6 if there is any DHCPv6 on the network. It is a bug. That would indeed be a bug, but I'm not aware of such a bug. As long as the network provides SLAAC as well as DHCPv6, IPv6 should work. If anyone can reproduce this on a Nexus device, please file a bug. Android 5.x does have a bug where if you send the device a default route via RA and don't provide addressing via SLAAC (i.e., if you do DHCPv6-only), and also have IPv6 on the cellular network, the device gets confused. That should be fixed in 6.0. ------------------------------ Message: 33 Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 04:03:55 +0200 From: Dave Taht > To: NANOG > Subject: the fcc vs wifi lockdown issue Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 I had hoped to have seen some discussion of what vint cerf, myself, linus torvalds, jim gettys, dave farber, and 260 others just cooked up as to solve the edge device, wifi, and iot security problems we face. Press release here: http://businesswire.com/news/home/20151014005564/en/Global-Internet-Experts-Reveal-Plan-Secure-Reliable Document as submitted to the fcc here: http://fqcodel.bufferbloat.net/~d/fcc_saner_software_practices.pdf Dave T?ht http://www.bufferbloat.net/projects/bloat/wiki/Daves_Media_Guidance ------------------------------ Message: 34 Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 04:24:21 +0200 From: Baldur Norddahl > To: "nanog at nanog.org" > Subject: sfp "computer"? Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi Does anyone make a SFP with a system on chip "computer" that you can run a small embedded linux on? I am sure it can be done because I have a "GPON stick" which is basically a ONU with a small embedded Linux all on a SFP module. Does get fairly hot however. My application is to run some small things that I feel is missing in my switches/routers. Plug in this imaginary "SFP computer" to enhance the switch with a small Linux. The SFP slot provides both networking and power to the device. Regards, Baldur ------------------------------ Message: 35 Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 02:47:50 +0000 From: "Jameson, Daniel" > To: Baldur Norddahl >, "nanog at nanog.org" > Subject: RE: sfp "computer"? Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Mk802 might get you close. Sub $50 plus a couple adapters. ________________________________ From: NANOG on behalf of Baldur Norddahl Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2015 9:24:21 PM To: nanog at nanog.org Subject: sfp "computer"? Hi Does anyone make a SFP with a system on chip "computer" that you can run a small embedded linux on? I am sure it can be done because I have a "GPON stick" which is basically a ONU with a small embedded Linux all on a SFP module. Does get fairly hot however. My application is to run some small things that I feel is missing in my switches/routers. Plug in this imaginary "SFP computer" to enhance the switch with a small Linux. The SFP slot provides both networking and power to the device. Regards, Baldur ------------------------------ Message: 36 Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 05:23:45 +0200 From: Baldur Norddahl > To: "nanog at nanog.org" > Subject: Re: sfp "computer"? Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, The problem with that is the lack of power options. I got -48V DC. And no USB port to power any devices. Regards, Baldur On 16 October 2015 at 04:47, Jameson, Daniel > wrote: Mk802 might get you close. Sub $50 plus a couple adapters. ------------------------------ *From:* NANOG on behalf of Baldur Norddahl *Sent:* Thursday, October 15, 2015 9:24:21 PM *To:* nanog at nanog.org *Subject:* sfp "computer"? Hi Does anyone make a SFP with a system on chip "computer" that you can run a small embedded linux on? I am sure it can be done because I have a "GPON stick" which is basically a ONU with a small embedded Linux all on a SFP module. Does get fairly hot however. My application is to run some small things that I feel is missing in my switches/routers. Plug in this imaginary "SFP computer" to enhance the switch with a small Linux. The SFP slot provides both networking and power to the device. Regards, Baldur ------------------------------ Message: 37 Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 23:47:30 -0400 From: Justin Wilson - MTIN > To: NANOG > Subject: Re: Cogent BGP Woes Message-ID: <23430E9F-68D5-491C-A9D6-BDC5C98289D9 at mtin.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 I am trying to turn up BGP on a circuit that ha never had it. In the past, you went to the support portal, filled out the questionnaire and in a day or so you would have you bgp info. When I did that this time I received a prompt response back from support saying this is now handled by sales and gave me the sales person to contact. Contacted sales person almost 3 weeks ago. Had to wait until the direct draft credited before they could put any new orders in. On a side note, Cogent is the only provider I know of that does not credit electronic payments within 24-48 hours. All of ours take 5 business days. Once thats done, e-mail the sales person back. No response for a few days. Call a manager and get them involved. 2 more weeks we still don?t have BGP on this circuit. A minimum of 1 e-mail a day asking for status updates. Last response was ?Everything was entered in the system?. I guess I don?t understand why a sales order has to be entered for BGP. This adds an extra step, which in this case has been a major fail. Justin Wilson j2sw at mtin.net --- http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO xISP Solutions- Consulting ? Data Centers - Bandwidth http://www.midwest-ix.com COO/Chairman Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric On Oct 15, 2015, at 2:47 PM, james machado > wrote: Justin, What are you trying to do? I had a similar situation as my rep got the wrong product for BGP. I actually cleaned it up by talking to support and I had to fill out a second BGP questionnaire but it was resolved and turned up in a couple of days. James On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 11:38 AM, Justin Wilson - MTIN > wrote: Have the rest of you been having as hard a time I am having in turning up BgP sessions with Cogent? They have made it a sales order nowadays instead of support. I filled out the questionnaire on the support site over 3 weeks ago and was directed to sales. I am going on 3 weeks waiting on a session to be turned up. Just wondering if I am alone. Justin Wilson j2sw at mtin.net --- http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO xISP Solutions- Consulting ? Data Centers - Bandwidth http://www.midwest-ix.com COO/Chairman Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric ------------------------------ Message: 38 Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 23:47:38 -0400 From: Justin Wilson - MTIN > To: NANOG > Subject: Re: Cogent BGP Woes Message-ID: <2E1F041E-CCDF-491F-BA03-B3D36FBC629A at mtin.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 I am trying to turn up BGP on a circuit that ha never had it. In the past, you went to the support portal, filled out the questionnaire and in a day or so you would have you bgp info. When I did that this time I received a prompt response back from support saying this is now handled by sales and gave me the sales person to contact. Contacted sales person almost 3 weeks ago. Had to wait until the direct draft credited before they could put any new orders in. On a side note, Cogent is the only provider I know of that does not credit electronic payments within 24-48 hours. All of ours take 5 business days. Once thats done, e-mail the sales person back. No response for a few days. Call a manager and get them involved. 2 more weeks we still don?t have BGP on this circuit. A minimum of 1 e-mail a day asking for status updates. Last response was ?Everything was entered in the system?. I guess I don?t understand why a sales order has to be entered for BGP. This adds an extra step, which in this case has been a major fail. Justin Wilson j2sw at mtin.net --- http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO xISP Solutions- Consulting ? Data Centers - Bandwidth http://www.midwest-ix.com COO/Chairman Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric On Oct 15, 2015, at 2:47 PM, james machado > wrote: Justin, What are you trying to do? I had a similar situation as my rep got the wrong product for BGP. I actually cleaned it up by talking to support and I had to fill out a second BGP questionnaire but it was resolved and turned up in a couple of days. James On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 11:38 AM, Justin Wilson - MTIN > wrote: Have the rest of you been having as hard a time I am having in turning up BgP sessions with Cogent? They have made it a sales order nowadays instead of support. I filled out the questionnaire on the support site over 3 weeks ago and was directed to sales. I am going on 3 weeks waiting on a session to be turned up. Just wondering if I am alone. Justin Wilson j2sw at mtin.net --- http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO xISP Solutions- Consulting ? Data Centers - Bandwidth http://www.midwest-ix.com COO/Chairman Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric ------------------------------ Message: 39 Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 05:12:05 +0000 From: Carlos Alcantar > To: Justin Wilson - MTIN >, NANOG > Subject: Re: Cogent BGP Woes Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Sales now handled it because they bill now for having a bgp session. ? Carlos Alcantar Race Communications / Race Team Member 1325 Howard Ave. #604, Burlingame, CA. 94010 Phone: +1 415 376 3314 / carlos at race.com / http://www.race.com ________________________________________ From: NANOG > on behalf of Justin Wilson - MTIN > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2015 8:47 PM To: NANOG Subject: Re: Cogent BGP Woes I am trying to turn up BGP on a circuit that ha never had it. In the past, you went to the support portal, filled out the questionnaire and in a day or so you would have you bgp info. When I did that this time I received a prompt response back from support saying this is now handled by sales and gave me the sales person to contact. Contacted sales person almost 3 weeks ago. Had to wait until the direct draft credited before they could put any new orders in. On a side note, Cogent is the only provider I know of that does not credit electronic payments within 24-48 hours. All of ours take 5 business days. Once thats done, e-mail the sales person back. No response for a few days. Call a manager and get them involved. 2 more weeks we still don?t have BGP on this circuit. A minimum of 1 e-mail a day asking for status updates. Last response was ?Everything was entered in the system?. I guess I don?t understand why a sales order has to be entered for BGP. This adds an extra step, which in this case has been a major fail. Justin Wilson j2sw at mtin.net --- http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO xISP Solutions- Consulting ? Data Centers - Bandwidth http://www.midwest-ix.com COO/Chairman Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric On Oct 15, 2015, at 2:47 PM, james machado > wrote: Justin, What are you trying to do? I had a similar situation as my rep got the wrong product for BGP. I actually cleaned it up by talking to support and I had to fill out a second BGP questionnaire but it was resolved and turned up in a couple of days. James On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 11:38 AM, Justin Wilson - MTIN > wrote: Have the rest of you been having as hard a time I am having in turning up BgP sessions with Cogent? They have made it a sales order nowadays instead of support. I filled out the questionnaire on the support site over 3 weeks ago and was directed to sales. I am going on 3 weeks waiting on a session to be turned up. Just wondering if I am alone. Justin Wilson j2sw at mtin.net --- http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO xISP Solutions- Consulting ? Data Centers - Bandwidth http://www.midwest-ix.com COO/Chairman Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric ------------------------------ Message: 40 Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 23:11:44 -0700 From: joel jaeggli > To: Baldur Norddahl >, "nanog at nanog.org" > Subject: Re: sfp "computer"? Message-ID: <56209520.8060306 at bogus.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" On 10/15/15 8:23 PM, Baldur Norddahl wrote: Hi, The problem with that is the lack of power options. I got -48V DC. And no USB port to power any devices. step it down (buck converter) to 5v and use a raspberry pi http://www.st.com/web/en/catalog/sense_power/FM142/CL1456/SC355/PF63205 Regards, Baldur On 16 October 2015 at 04:47, Jameson, Daniel > wrote: Mk802 might get you close. Sub $50 plus a couple adapters. ------------------------------ *From:* NANOG on behalf of Baldur Norddahl *Sent:* Thursday, October 15, 2015 9:24:21 PM *To:* nanog at nanog.org *Subject:* sfp "computer"? Hi Does anyone make a SFP with a system on chip "computer" that you can run a small embedded linux on? I am sure it can be done because I have a "GPON stick" which is basically a ONU with a small embedded Linux all on a SFP module. Does get fairly hot however. My application is to run some small things that I feel is missing in my switches/routers. Plug in this imaginary "SFP computer" to enhance the switch with a small Linux. The SFP slot provides both networking and power to the device. Regards, Baldur -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 229 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: ------------------------------ Message: 41 Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 01:45:34 -0430 From: Alejandro Acosta > To: nanog at nanog.org Subject: Re: the fcc vs wifi lockdown issue Message-ID: <56209606.6070206 at gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Quite interesting..., please keep us posted. Good luck with this. Regards, Alejandro, El 10/15/2015 a las 9:33 PM, Dave Taht escribi?: I had hoped to have seen some discussion of what vint cerf, myself, linus torvalds, jim gettys, dave farber, and 260 others just cooked up as to solve the edge device, wifi, and iot security problems we face. Press release here: http://businesswire.com/news/home/20151014005564/en/Global-Internet-Experts-Reveal-Plan-Secure-Reliable Document as submitted to the fcc here: http://fqcodel.bufferbloat.net/~d/fcc_saner_software_practices.pdf Dave T?ht http://www.bufferbloat.net/projects/bloat/wiki/Daves_Media_Guidance ------------------------------ Message: 42 Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 08:17:31 +0200 From: Mark Tinka > To: "Patrick W. Gilmore" >, NANOG list > Subject: Re: Google's peering, GGC, and congestion management Message-ID: <5620967B.4050706 at seacom.mu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 15/Oct/15 16:35, Patrick W. Gilmore wrote: > > Remember, they control the servers. All CDNs (that matter) can do this. They can re-direct users with different URLs, different DNS responses, 302s, etc., etc. It is not BGP. Of course, some other CDN's don't use DNS, and instead use BGP by Anycasting target IP addresses locally. Of course, the challenge with this is that those CDN's need to have their own IP addresses in the markets they serve, while the DNS-based CDN's can use IP addresses of the local network with whom they host. I find the latter easier for ISP's, but I'm sure many of the CDN's find the former easier for them, particularly with the lack of IPv4 space in all but one region. Mark. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJWIJZ7AAoJEGcZuYTeKm+GAM8P/3TtFp7cC/38rfa+ygtsXfgv lz0IqLSbV0+U32SIjMl9F7/oH58zepC0LHmQOm4mbD+oyDSfuV7arzOyS9f4kALC dR1fjd+hHv9EVNvobt3TSyDkRlFYc71WzqusD3L7h7yxpdvq7ILmOW3/9t/TkJDA mxln2vt8WbfHYUg16IQL060us5k2JP82At+L9LHT6IQ4QmtaUQQXXA77Cmht6U+F VUAkdT23jdK3xee4/qbzgwu3XWo06d4XhcmqCCZBwV8BpDG53rNvHyMe7am0WKIF WMj6WSUWfXJAjfhPWfLKMY9zfRtVJPj52bsKzGlRiEulaQol4aSjRBWbloQsJkm4 sbWi7ldj9YmhFkWg1iNOSq4Ek7WlVJoOVpqUZ0S/t0/bAciFjgU/9pSQsWRxSyoc wsLVqxcUarCg6EM6Ya1P0+9N2t+Qc/DSv+cRHIIwc9unxBgyCnJ4+1S8jPHFDfHD T/nCvqGtnPAqT9j8qJCkvcUB44YNv7pjHCCZQz8y8aAff9j+dXHAi/CXp/ZoiOrS 1AEassLSW0kk4GnmAz5AfeSJeV2mRonrJ+yZuPZMzEdCPQfK28X2yD2E97A4uG1z VyAzKHzkNDmvkwTEjY3vn/GzgDLvlZuum8zghe0/7TYOl24fpdcXiA4XmZQXGwnt yaxhXTOhcU3FbqfOVUfm =Vgbr -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ------------------------------ Message: 43 Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 08:19:38 +0200 From: Mark Tinka > To: "Patrick W. Gilmore" >, NANOG list > Subject: Re: Google's peering, GGC, and congestion management Message-ID: <562096FA.2030707 at seacom.mu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 On 15/Oct/15 16:35, Patrick W. Gilmore wrote: > > Remember, they control the servers. All CDNs (that matter) can do > > this. They can re-direct users with different URLs, different DNS > > responses, 302s, etc., etc. It is not BGP. Of course, some other CDN's don't use DNS, and instead use BGP by Anycasting target IP addresses locally. Of course, the challenge with this is that those CDN's need to have their own IP addresses in the markets they serve, while the DNS-based CDN's can use IP addresses of the local network with whom they host. I find the latter easier for ISP's, but I'm sure many of the CDN's find the former easier for them, particularly with the lack of IPv4 space in all but one region. Mark. ------------------------------ Message: 44 Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 23:43:19 -0700 From: Ray Wong > To: "nanog at nanog.org" > Subject: Re: sfp "computer"? Message-ID: <2A9D77D5-028B-47C3-BC11-F477CD1EBD4A at rayw.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii or step down to 12vdc and use any number of standard PC options: http://www.mini-box.com/DC-DC On Oct 15, 2015, at 11:11 PM, joel jaeggli > wrote: On 10/15/15 8:23 PM, Baldur Norddahl wrote: Hi, The problem with that is the lack of power options. I got -48V DC. And no USB port to power any devices. step it down (buck converter) to 5v and use a raspberry pi http://www.st.com/web/en/catalog/sense_power/FM142/CL1456/SC355/PF63205 Regards, Baldur On 16 October 2015 at 04:47, Jameson, Daniel > wrote: Mk802 might get you close. Sub $50 plus a couple adapters. ------------------------------ *From:* NANOG on behalf of Baldur Norddahl *Sent:* Thursday, October 15, 2015 9:24:21 PM *To:* nanog at nanog.org *Subject:* sfp "computer"? Hi Does anyone make a SFP with a system on chip "computer" that you can run a small embedded linux on? I am sure it can be done because I have a "GPON stick" which is basically a ONU with a small embedded Linux all on a SFP module. Does get fairly hot however. My application is to run some small things that I feel is missing in my switches/routers. Plug in this imaginary "SFP computer" to enhance the switch with a small Linux. The SFP slot provides both networking and power to the device. Regards, Baldur ------------------------------ Message: 45 Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 03:36:11 -0500 (CDT) From: Mike Hammett > Cc: NANOG > Subject: Re: Cogent BGP Woes Message-ID: <419719878.419.1444984623176.JavaMail.mhammett at ThunderFuck> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Nickles and dimes... ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carlos Alcantar" > To: "Justin Wilson - MTIN" >, "NANOG" > Sent: Friday, October 16, 2015 12:12:05 AM Subject: Re: Cogent BGP Woes Sales now handled it because they bill now for having a bgp session. Carlos Alcantar Race Communications / Race Team Member 1325 Howard Ave. #604, Burlingame, CA. 94010 Phone: +1 415 376 3314 / carlos at race.com / http://www.race.com ________________________________________ From: NANOG > on behalf of Justin Wilson - MTIN > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2015 8:47 PM To: NANOG Subject: Re: Cogent BGP Woes I am trying to turn up BGP on a circuit that ha never had it. In the past, you went to the support portal, filled out the questionnaire and in a day or so you would have you bgp info. When I did that this time I received a prompt response back from support saying this is now handled by sales and gave me the sales person to contact. Contacted sales person almost 3 weeks ago. Had to wait until the direct draft credited before they could put any new orders in. On a side note, Cogent is the only provider I know of that does not credit electronic payments within 24-48 hours. All of ours take 5 business days. Once thats done, e-mail the sales person back. No response for a few days. Call a manager and get them involved. 2 more weeks we still don?t have BGP on this circuit. A minimum of 1 e-mail a day asking for status updates. Last response was ?Everything was entered in the system?. I guess I don?t understand why a sales order has to be entered for BGP. This adds an extra step, which in this case has been a major fail. Justin Wilson j2sw at mtin.net --- http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO xISP Solutions- Consulting ? Data Centers - Bandwidth http://www.midwest-ix.com COO/Chairman Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric On Oct 15, 2015, at 2:47 PM, james machado > wrote: Justin, What are you trying to do? I had a similar situation as my rep got the wrong product for BGP. I actually cleaned it up by talking to support and I had to fill out a second BGP questionnaire but it was resolved and turned up in a couple of days. James On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 11:38 AM, Justin Wilson - MTIN > wrote: Have the rest of you been having as hard a time I am having in turning up BgP sessions with Cogent? They have made it a sales order nowadays instead of support. I filled out the questionnaire on the support site over 3 weeks ago and was directed to sales. I am going on 3 weeks waiting on a session to be turned up. Just wondering if I am alone. Justin Wilson j2sw at mtin.net --- http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO xISP Solutions- Consulting ? Data Centers - Bandwidth http://www.midwest-ix.com COO/Chairman Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric ------------------------------ Message: 46 Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 10:50:17 +0000 From: MKS > To: nanog at nanog.org Subject: inexpensive url-filtering db Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hello list Now I'm looking for an inexpensive url-filtering database, for integration into a squid like solution. By inexpense I mean something that doesn't cost $50k a year. If you have references for me, feel free to contact me on- or off-list. Regards MKS Perhaps there is another mailing-list more relevant for this kind of issues? ------------------------------ Message: 47 Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 16:38:00 +0530 From: Anurag Bhatia > To: Chaim Rieger > Cc: Hugo Slabbert >, NANOG Mailing List > Subject: Re: IPv6 and Android auto conf Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Intersting. Sure, would be fun to try DHCPv6. Last time when I checked only OS X was supporting it with limited sense. On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 2:31 PM, Chaim Rieger > wrote: On the nexus 5, if you are running android 6, you should enable older style dhcp. It can be found in the dev section. -- Anurag Bhatia anuragbhatia.com PGP Key Fingerprint: 3115 677D 2E94 B696 651B 870C C06D D524 245E 58E2 ------------------------------ Message: 48 Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 06:50:50 -0500 From: Jerry Jones > To: Baldur Norddahl > Cc: "nanog at nanog.org" > Subject: Re: sfp "computer"? Message-ID: <3124D386-5349-4A48-BB99-E68E039BA973 at danrj.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii A different approach would be use one of the newer switches from Juniper and run right on the RE if you have those in your network On Oct 15, 2015, at 9:24 PM, Baldur Norddahl > wrote: Hi Does anyone make a SFP with a system on chip "computer" that you can run a small embedded linux on? I am sure it can be done because I have a "GPON stick" which is basically a ONU with a small embedded Linux all on a SFP module. Does get fairly hot however. My application is to run some small things that I feel is missing in my switches/routers. Plug in this imaginary "SFP computer" to enhance the switch with a small Linux. The SFP slot provides both networking and power to the device. Regards, Baldur ------------------------------ Message: 49 Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 13:57:02 +0200 From: Randy Bush > To: North American Network Operators' Group > Subject: i hate october Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII jon postel died this day in 1988 abha ahuja next tuesday itojun the 29th arrrgh End of NANOG Digest, Vol 93, Issue 16 ************************************* From ag4ve.us at gmail.com Fri Oct 16 15:10:02 2015 From: ag4ve.us at gmail.com (shawn wilson) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 11:10:02 -0400 Subject: inexpensive url-filtering db In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Oct 16, 2015 6:52 AM, "MKS" wrote: > > Now I'm looking for an inexpensive url-filtering database, for integration > into a squid like solution. > Perhaps there is another mailing-list more relevant for this kind of issues? Squid like or squid? I'd ask on the squid list if there's nothing here. From shawnl at up.net Fri Oct 16 15:37:01 2015 From: shawnl at up.net (Shawn L) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 11:37:01 -0400 (EDT) Subject: inexpensive url-filtering db In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1445009821.675417206@upnet.mymailsrvr.com> I've used Dan's Guardian before. Usually in a K-12 setting -----Original Message----- From: "shawn wilson" Sent: Friday, October 16, 2015 11:10am To: "MKS" Cc: "North American Network Operators Group" Subject: Re: inexpensive url-filtering db On Oct 16, 2015 6:52 AM, "MKS" wrote: > > Now I'm looking for an inexpensive url-filtering database, for integration > into a squid like solution. > Perhaps there is another mailing-list more relevant for this kind of issues? Squid like or squid? I'd ask on the squid list if there's nothing here. From rirving at antient.org Fri Oct 16 16:42:00 2015 From: rirving at antient.org (Richard Irving) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 12:42:00 -0400 Subject: i hate october In-Reply-To: <31CD1B98-301C-4454-9205-0ED70BC122CB@centergate.com> References: <31CD1B98-301C-4454-9205-0ED70BC122CB@centergate.com> Message-ID: <562128D8.8050205@antient.org> My NANOG membership is older than some of them lived to.... :-( Remember, the only thing worse than cruelty of growing old... is not. On 10/16/2015 08:06 AM, Rodney Joffe wrote: > > Though fewer and fewer of us remember them and why it sucks. > > Sigh. RFC2468. I can't believe I missed my midnight reminder on the list. > >> On Oct 16, 2015, at 7:57 AM, Randy Bush wrote: >> >> jon postel died this day in 1988 >> abha ahuja next tuesday >> itojun the 29th >> >> arrrgh From rirving at antient.org Fri Oct 16 16:46:36 2015 From: rirving at antient.org (Richard Irving) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 12:46:36 -0400 Subject: i hate october In-Reply-To: <562128D8.8050205@antient.org> References: <31CD1B98-301C-4454-9205-0ED70BC122CB@centergate.com> <562128D8.8050205@antient.org> Message-ID: <562129EC.4070305@antient.org> Peaking of growing older.... >>> On Oct 16, 2015, at 7:57 AM, Randy Bush wrote: >>> >>> jon postel died this day in 1988 1998 >>> abha ahuja next tuesday >>> itojun the 29th >>> >>> arrrgh From rirving at antient.org Fri Oct 16 16:49:05 2015 From: rirving at antient.org (Richard Irving) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 12:49:05 -0400 Subject: i hate october In-Reply-To: <562129EC.4070305@antient.org> References: <31CD1B98-301C-4454-9205-0ED70BC122CB@centergate.com> <562128D8.8050205@antient.org> <562129EC.4070305@antient.org> Message-ID: <56212A81.3040802@antient.org> * sigh * On 10/16/2015 12:46 PM, Richard Irving wrote: > *S*peaking of growing older.... From rafaelpossa at gmail.com Fri Oct 16 14:28:43 2015 From: rafaelpossa at gmail.com (Rafael Possamai) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 09:28:43 -0500 Subject: Cogent BGP Woes In-Reply-To: <419719878.419.1444984623176.JavaMail.mhammett@ThunderFuck> References: <419719878.419.1444984623176.JavaMail.mhammett@ThunderFuck> Message-ID: Similar to low-cost airlines, where you have to pay for a drink and a 4oz bag of peanuts. On Fri, Oct 16, 2015 at 3:36 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: > Nickles and dimes... > > > > > ----- > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions > http://www.ics-il.com > > > > Midwest Internet Exchange > http://www.midwest-ix.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Carlos Alcantar" > To: "Justin Wilson - MTIN" , "NANOG" > Sent: Friday, October 16, 2015 12:12:05 AM > Subject: Re: Cogent BGP Woes > > Sales now handled it because they bill now for having a bgp session. > > > > Carlos Alcantar > Race Communications / Race Team Member > 1325 Howard Ave. #604, Burlingame, CA. 94010 > Phone: +1 415 376 3314 / carlos at race.com / http://www.race.com > > > ________________________________________ > From: NANOG on behalf of Justin Wilson - MTIN < > lists at mtin.net> > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2015 8:47 PM > To: NANOG > Subject: Re: Cogent BGP Woes > > I am trying to turn up BGP on a circuit that ha never had it. In the past, > you went to the support portal, filled out the questionnaire and in a day > or so you would have you bgp info. When I did that this time I received a > prompt response back from support saying this is now handled by sales and > gave me the sales person to contact. > > Contacted sales person almost 3 weeks ago. Had to wait until the direct > draft credited before they could put any new orders in. On a side note, > Cogent is the only provider I know of that does not credit electronic > payments within 24-48 hours. All of ours take 5 business days. Once thats > done, e-mail the sales person back. No response for a few days. Call a > manager and get them involved. 2 more weeks we still don?t have BGP on this > circuit. A minimum of 1 e-mail a day asking for status updates. Last > response was ?Everything was entered in the system?. > > I guess I don?t understand why a sales order has to be entered for BGP. > This adds an extra step, which in this case has been a major fail. > > > Justin Wilson > j2sw at mtin.net > > --- > http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO > xISP Solutions- Consulting ? Data Centers - Bandwidth > > http://www.midwest-ix.com COO/Chairman > Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric > > On Oct 15, 2015, at 2:47 PM, james machado hvgeekwtrvl at gmail.com>> wrote: > > Justin, > > What are you trying to do? I had a similar situation as my rep got > the wrong product for BGP. I actually cleaned it up by talking to > support and I had to fill out a second BGP questionnaire but it was > resolved and turned up in a couple of days. > > James > > On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 11:38 AM, Justin Wilson - MTIN > wrote: > Have the rest of you been having as hard a time I am having in turning up > BgP sessions with Cogent? They have made it a sales order nowadays instead > of support. I filled out the questionnaire on the support site over 3 weeks > ago and was directed to sales. I am going on 3 weeks waiting on a session > to be turned up. > > Just wondering if I am alone. > > > Justin Wilson > j2sw at mtin.net > > --- > http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO > xISP Solutions- Consulting ? Data Centers - Bandwidth > > http://www.midwest-ix.com COO/Chairman > Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric > > > > > From owen at delong.com Fri Oct 16 18:50:52 2015 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 11:50:52 -0700 Subject: Question re session hijacking in dual stack environments w/MacOS In-Reply-To: <132752.1443772000@turing-police.cc.vt.edu> References: <560A3C8F.4060306@seacom.mu> <20151002054647.GA57805@geeks.org> <132752.1443772000@turing-police.cc.vt.edu> Message-ID: <0C484904-CAEE-4B63-AF93-7EDA80831F2F@delong.com> > On Oct 2, 2015, at 00:46 , Valdis.Kletnieks at vt.edu wrote: > > On Fri, 02 Oct 2015 00:46:47 -0500, Doug McIntyre said: > >> I suspect this is OSX implementing IPv6 Privacy Extensions. Where OSX >> generates a new random IPv6 address, applies it to the interface, and then >> drops the old IPv6 addresses as they stale out. Sessions in use or not. > > Isn't the OS supposed to wait for the last user of the old address to close > their socket before dropping it? No? It just waits for the valid lifetime to expire. Privacy addresses don?t refresh their preferred lifetime and start counting the valid lifetime from preferred expiration IIRC. Owen From jason at thebaughers.com Fri Oct 16 19:07:58 2015 From: jason at thebaughers.com (Jason Baugher) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 14:07:58 -0500 Subject: Spamhaus contact needed In-Reply-To: <561FF085.2000302@cox.net> References: <561FE343.60506@cox.net> <561FF008.1030008@cox.net> <561FF085.2000302@cox.net> Message-ID: I felt I should mention, Spamhaus was quick to respond to my email and gave me excellent information on what was triggering the blacklisting. On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 1:29 PM, Larry Sheldon wrote: > On 10/15/2015 13:27, Larry Sheldon wrote: > >> On 10/15/2015 12:32, Larry Sheldon wrote: >> >>> On 10/15/2015 00:27, Jason Baugher wrote: >>> >>>> Sorry to clutter up this list with an email issue, but hopefully >>>> someone is >>>> here from Spamhaus that can contact me off-list. I have a customer >>>> whose IP >>>> keeps getting listed in the CBL, and even after doing packet captures of >>>> everything in and out of their network, I still can't find a reason >>>> for it. >>>> >>> >>> I have been off the line for quite a while, but as I recollect there is >>> no "Spamhaus contact" aside from the search engine they provide for >>> their database. >>> >>> You look-up your IP, they tell you what the problem is, you fix it, and >>> the block goes away. >>> >>> It always used to work. Every time. >>> >> >> WAIT A MINUTE! "CBL" is not "Spamhaus", is it?! >> >> http://www.abuseat.org/ >> > > > MY BAD! Yes, it is "spamhaus". > > Sorry. > > > > -- > sed quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (Juvenal) > From thomas at kgt.org Fri Oct 16 22:24:45 2015 From: thomas at kgt.org (Alessandro Ghedini) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 15:24:45 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000d869ee28$7c1aa0db$6cd13486$@kgt.org> Hello! New message, please read Alessandro Ghedini From willd at staff.gwi.net Fri Oct 16 19:28:35 2015 From: willd at staff.gwi.net (Will Duquette) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 15:28:35 -0400 Subject: Dial Up Solutions Message-ID: Does anyone have any suggestions on equipment for our ISP that is still supporting dial up customers? At the moment we are running 3Com Total Control 1000's but are running out of spare parts as we have failures. Given that this gear is so old trying to source spare parts is proving to be difficult. We do have access to an Cisco AS5200 but are looking for maybe a SIP based solution that could possibly run on our VM farm? Has anyone heard of anything like that or does it even exist? What kind of gear are you running if you still are supporting dial up customers? Thanks in advance -- Will Duquette GWI Network Systems Engineer www.gwi.net From timt at nicodem.us Sat Oct 17 06:15:11 2015 From: timt at nicodem.us (Tim Thompson) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 23:15:11 -0700 Subject: Dial Up Solutions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5621E76F.2010904@nicodem.us> My previous employer still has racks of APX 8000's. Reseller market appears to still be at least somewhat alive, and I know my previous employer has ~30 chassis and boxes upon boxes of cards for 'em; they may be willing to unload some if you have any interest. Hit me up off-list if so and I can see if they have a desire to part with them, and I'll connect you. -Tim On 10/16/2015 12:28 PM, Will Duquette wrote: > Does anyone have any suggestions on equipment for our ISP that is still > supporting dial up customers? > > At the moment we are running 3Com Total Control 1000's but are running out > of spare parts as we have failures. Given that this gear is so old trying > to source spare parts is proving to be difficult. > > We do have access to an Cisco AS5200 but are looking for maybe a SIP based > solution that could possibly run on our VM farm? Has anyone heard of > anything like that or does it even exist? > > What kind of gear are you running if you still are supporting dial up > customers? > > Thanks in advance > From mhoppes at indigowireless.com Sat Oct 17 07:18:06 2015 From: mhoppes at indigowireless.com (Matt Hoppes) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2015 03:18:06 -0400 Subject: Dial Up Solutions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7AE3CC03-6AC1-40B3-A95A-FF4E3698B926@indigowireless.com> Coretel - outsource your modem pool > On Oct 16, 2015, at 15:28, Will Duquette wrote: > > Does anyone have any suggestions on equipment for our ISP that is still > supporting dial up customers? > > At the moment we are running 3Com Total Control 1000's but are running out > of spare parts as we have failures. Given that this gear is so old trying > to source spare parts is proving to be difficult. > > We do have access to an Cisco AS5200 but are looking for maybe a SIP based > solution that could possibly run on our VM farm? Has anyone heard of > anything like that or does it even exist? > > What kind of gear are you running if you still are supporting dial up > customers? > > Thanks in advance > > -- > Will Duquette > GWI > Network Systems Engineer > www.gwi.net From lists at mtin.net Sat Oct 17 12:25:12 2015 From: lists at mtin.net (Justin Wilson - MTIN) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2015 08:25:12 -0400 Subject: Dial Up Solutions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Outsource it. http://www.dialupusa.net/ Used them for years probably 10 years until we stopped dial-up. Very solid network. Justin Wilson j2sw at mtin.net --- http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO xISP Solutions- Consulting ? Data Centers - Bandwidth http://www.midwest-ix.com COO/Chairman Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric > On Oct 16, 2015, at 3:28 PM, Will Duquette wrote: > > Does anyone have any suggestions on equipment for our ISP that is still > supporting dial up customers? > > At the moment we are running 3Com Total Control 1000's but are running out > of spare parts as we have failures. Given that this gear is so old trying > to source spare parts is proving to be difficult. > > We do have access to an Cisco AS5200 but are looking for maybe a SIP based > solution that could possibly run on our VM farm? Has anyone heard of > anything like that or does it even exist? > > What kind of gear are you running if you still are supporting dial up > customers? > > Thanks in advance > > -- > Will Duquette > GWI > Network Systems Engineer > www.gwi.net > From jlewis at lewis.org Sat Oct 17 13:01:28 2015 From: jlewis at lewis.org (Jon Lewis) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2015 09:01:28 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Dial Up Solutions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 16 Oct 2015, Will Duquette wrote: > Does anyone have any suggestions on equipment for our ISP that is still > supporting dial up customers? > > At the moment we are running 3Com Total Control 1000's but are running out > of spare parts as we have failures. Given that this gear is so old trying > to source spare parts is proving to be difficult. > > We do have access to an Cisco AS5200 but are looking for maybe a SIP based > solution that could possibly run on our VM farm? Has anyone heard of > anything like that or does it even exist? The AS5200 is so old, their 10mb ethernet ports are AUI, so you need transcievers hanging off the back of them, and though I bet you can get them for free or the cost of shipping, I wouldn't recommend them. AFAIK, cisco stopped making dedicated dialup service gear some years ago, but you can still find AS5300 and AS5400 gear used for pennies on the dollar. I'd avoid the older 2U AS5300 96 and 192 port units. We had a bunch of those 2 jobs ago, and as we started pulling them from service (shutting down the dialup POPs), we found that many of them would not boot up again when tested back at the office. I kind of wonder now if they were affected by cisco's "defective RAM issue". Depending on the density you need, an AS5400HPX (and an M13 mux if needed) might be a reasonable way to go. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Jon Lewis, MCP :) | I route | therefore you are _________ http://www.lewis.org/~jlewis/pgp for PGP public key_________ From frnkblk at iname.com Sat Oct 17 13:26:58 2015 From: frnkblk at iname.com (frnkblk at iname.com) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2015 08:26:58 -0500 Subject: Broken IPV6 for Enterprise websites In-Reply-To: <1443034283.839054.391777385.56CD7E17@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <1443034283.839054.391777385.56CD7E17@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <000b01d108df$80ec3cf0$82c4b6d0$@iname.com> FYI, enterprise.ca started responding to HTTPv6 requests this morning at 12:17 am (U.S. Central). Not ICMPv6, though. It was also up October 11 from 4:09 to 4:16 am, and then again from 4:26 to 4:46 am. Since I've started tracking it, this is the longest the site has been accessible over IPv6. enterprise.com has only been up over IPv6 on October 11 from 12:54 am to 1:04 am. Frank -----Original Message----- From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces at nanog.org] On Behalf Of Clinton Work Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2015 1:51 PM To: nanog at nanog.org Subject: Broken IPV6 for Enterprise websites The enterprise.com and enterprise.ca websites advertise AAAA records, but the web servers don't respond to IPV6 HTTP requests. I have tried to contacting Enterprise several times to correct, but I can't get thru their layers of customer service. I'm hoping that somebody on NANOG knows a technical contact at Enterprise. -- Clinton Work From frnkblk at iname.com Sat Oct 17 13:37:26 2015 From: frnkblk at iname.com (frnkblk at iname.com) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2015 08:37:26 -0500 Subject: Dial Up Solutions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000c01d108e0$f7117cf0$e53476d0$@iname.com> We're still using USR Robotics/3com TotalControls and were able to get some spare parts from our statewide telecom partner when they shut down their stuff. Most common problem we see now are fan failures, but we just cannabilize existing the fans out of a fan tray. The volume of calls are so low that there are no hours that no one is dialed in, and at most we see two people connected at one time. Frank -----Original Message----- From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces at nanog.org] On Behalf Of Will Duquette Sent: Friday, October 16, 2015 2:29 PM To: nanog at nanog.org Subject: Dial Up Solutions Does anyone have any suggestions on equipment for our ISP that is still supporting dial up customers? At the moment we are running 3Com Total Control 1000's but are running out of spare parts as we have failures. Given that this gear is so old trying to source spare parts is proving to be difficult. We do have access to an Cisco AS5200 but are looking for maybe a SIP based solution that could possibly run on our VM farm? Has anyone heard of anything like that or does it even exist? What kind of gear are you running if you still are supporting dial up customers? Thanks in advance -- Will Duquette GWI Network Systems Engineer www.gwi.net From clayton at MNSi.Net Sat Oct 17 14:23:50 2015 From: clayton at MNSi.Net (Clayton Zekelman) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2015 10:23:50 -0400 Subject: Dial Up Solutions In-Reply-To: <000c01d108e0$f7117cf0$e53476d0$@iname.com> References: <000c01d108e0$f7117cf0$e53476d0$@iname.com> Message-ID: <1445091833_30479@surgemail.mnsi.net> 3Com TC here. 9 users online at the moment. Surprises me that it's that high. Last reboot on the HiperARC was 399 days ago. I almost forgot how to log on to the damned thing. At one time we had over 3000 DS0s worth of dialup capacity. At 09:37 AM 17/10/2015, frnkblk at iname.com wrote: >We're still using USR Robotics/3com TotalControls and were able to >get some spare parts from our statewide telecom partner when they >shut down their stuff. Most common problem we see now are fan >failures, but we just cannabilize existing the fans out of a fan >tray. The volume of calls are so low that there are no hours that >no one is dialed in, and at most we see two people connected at one time. > >Frank > >-----Original Message----- >From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces at nanog.org] On Behalf Of Will Duquette >Sent: Friday, October 16, 2015 2:29 PM >To: nanog at nanog.org >Subject: Dial Up Solutions > >Does anyone have any suggestions on equipment for our ISP that is still >supporting dial up customers? > >At the moment we are running 3Com Total Control 1000's but are running out >of spare parts as we have failures. Given that this gear is so old trying >to source spare parts is proving to be difficult. > >We do have access to an Cisco AS5200 but are looking for maybe a SIP based >solution that could possibly run on our VM farm? Has anyone heard of >anything like that or does it even exist? > >What kind of gear are you running if you still are supporting dial up >customers? > >Thanks in advance > >-- >Will Duquette >GWI >Network Systems Engineer >www.gwi.net -- Clayton Zekelman Managed Network Systems Inc. (MNSi) 3363 Tecumseh Rd. E Windsor, Ontario N8W 1H4 tel. 519-985-8410 fax. 519-985-8409 From jason at unlimitednet.us Sat Oct 17 14:29:37 2015 From: jason at unlimitednet.us (Jason Canady) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2015 10:29:37 -0400 Subject: Dial Up Solutions In-Reply-To: <1445091833_30479@surgemail.mnsi.net> References: <000c01d108e0$f7117cf0$e53476d0$@iname.com> <1445091833_30479@surgemail.mnsi.net> Message-ID: <56225B51.1040600@unlimitednet.us> I'm going to go with Justin's suggestion and go with a wholesale provider such as DialupUSA. It's not worth paying for the lines and keeping a T1 or better for just a few users. DialupUSA use to charge around $5/user. They also had hourly and per port options. Looks like you can port existing numbers to them now. I used them 9-10 years ago and they were great to work with! IKANO bought them out since then, but they still operate under DialupUSA.net. They have DSL and T1 options too. - Jason On 10/17/15 10:23 AM, Clayton Zekelman wrote: > > 3Com TC here. 9 users online at the moment. Surprises me that it's > that high. Last reboot on the HiperARC was 399 days ago. I almost > forgot how to log on to the damned thing. > > At one time we had over 3000 DS0s worth of dialup capacity. > > At 09:37 AM 17/10/2015, frnkblk at iname.com wrote: >> We're still using USR Robotics/3com TotalControls and were able to >> get some spare parts from our statewide telecom partner when they >> shut down their stuff. Most common problem we see now are fan >> failures, but we just cannabilize existing the fans out of a fan >> tray. The volume of calls are so low that there are no hours that no >> one is dialed in, and at most we see two people connected at one time. >> >> Frank >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces at nanog.org] On Behalf Of Will Duquette >> Sent: Friday, October 16, 2015 2:29 PM >> To: nanog at nanog.org >> Subject: Dial Up Solutions >> >> Does anyone have any suggestions on equipment for our ISP that is still >> supporting dial up customers? >> >> At the moment we are running 3Com Total Control 1000's but are >> running out >> of spare parts as we have failures. Given that this gear is so old >> trying >> to source spare parts is proving to be difficult. >> >> We do have access to an Cisco AS5200 but are looking for maybe a SIP >> based >> solution that could possibly run on our VM farm? Has anyone heard of >> anything like that or does it even exist? >> >> What kind of gear are you running if you still are supporting dial up >> customers? >> >> Thanks in advance >> >> -- >> Will Duquette >> GWI >> Network Systems Engineer >> www.gwi.net > From clayton at MNSi.Net Sat Oct 17 14:34:27 2015 From: clayton at MNSi.Net (Clayton Zekelman) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2015 10:34:27 -0400 Subject: Dial Up Solutions In-Reply-To: <56225B51.1040600@unlimitednet.us> References: <000c01d108e0$f7117cf0$e53476d0$@iname.com> <1445091833_30479@surgemail.mnsi.net> <56225B51.1040600@unlimitednet.us> Message-ID: <1445092470_30517@surgemail.mnsi.net> We only run our own because as a CLEC, we self supply the PRI. Otherwise yes, outsource away... At 10:29 AM 17/10/2015, Jason Canady wrote: >I'm going to go with Justin's suggestion and go with a wholesale >provider such as DialupUSA. It's not worth paying for the lines and >keeping a T1 or better for just a few users. DialupUSA use to >charge around $5/user. They also had hourly and per port options. >Looks like you can port existing numbers to them now. I used them >9-10 years ago and they were great to work with! IKANO bought them >out since then, but they still operate under DialupUSA.net. They >have DSL and T1 options too. > >- Jason > >On 10/17/15 10:23 AM, Clayton Zekelman wrote: >> >>3Com TC here. 9 users online at the moment. Surprises me that >>it's that high. Last reboot on the HiperARC was 399 days ago. I >>almost forgot how to log on to the damned thing. >> >>At one time we had over 3000 DS0s worth of dialup capacity. >> >>At 09:37 AM 17/10/2015, frnkblk at iname.com wrote: >>>We're still using USR Robotics/3com TotalControls and were able to >>>get some spare parts from our statewide telecom partner when they >>>shut down their stuff. Most common problem we see now are fan >>>failures, but we just cannabilize existing the fans out of a fan >>>tray. The volume of calls are so low that there are no hours that >>>no one is dialed in, and at most we see two people connected at one time. >>> >>>Frank >>> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces at nanog.org] On Behalf Of Will Duquette >>>Sent: Friday, October 16, 2015 2:29 PM >>>To: nanog at nanog.org >>>Subject: Dial Up Solutions >>> >>>Does anyone have any suggestions on equipment for our ISP that is still >>>supporting dial up customers? >>> >>>At the moment we are running 3Com Total Control 1000's but are running out >>>of spare parts as we have failures. Given that this gear is so old trying >>>to source spare parts is proving to be difficult. >>> >>>We do have access to an Cisco AS5200 but are looking for maybe a SIP based >>>solution that could possibly run on our VM farm? Has anyone heard of >>>anything like that or does it even exist? >>> >>>What kind of gear are you running if you still are supporting dial up >>>customers? >>> >>>Thanks in advance >>> >>>-- >>>Will Duquette >>>GWI >>>Network Systems Engineer >>>www.gwi.net -- Clayton Zekelman Managed Network Systems Inc. (MNSi) 3363 Tecumseh Rd. E Windsor, Ontario N8W 1H4 tel. 519-985-8410 fax. 519-985-8409 From frnkblk at iname.com Sat Oct 17 15:14:41 2015 From: frnkblk at iname.com (frnkblk at iname.com) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2015 10:14:41 -0500 Subject: Dial Up Solutions In-Reply-To: <1445091833_30479@surgemail.mnsi.net> References: <000c01d108e0$f7117cf0$e53476d0$@iname.com> <1445091833_30479@surgemail.mnsi.net> Message-ID: <001e01d108ee$8d64d7d0$a82e8770$@iname.com> Don't forget about this bug: Uptime bug is referenced in UTStarcom documentation as AnswerID 3497; ============= If you are experiencing poor performance and / or operational slowdown on your network of the HiPer ARC card and the card uptime is over 400 days, please update the codebase to the following releases - 5.3.135 or better (for TCS 4.5) or 5.7.135 or better (for TCS 4.7). Previous versions of code will require a scheduled reboot every year to prevent problems such as: Random Packet Bus failure Management Bus failure of HiPer ARC reported by NMC Inability to ping the HiPer ARC card Various commands via telnet or console fail to complete on the HiPer ARC. ============= So I have reminder to myself to reboot the boxes every August. Frank -----Original Message----- From: Clayton Zekelman [mailto:clayton at MNSi.Net] Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2015 9:24 AM To: frnkblk at iname.com; willd at staff.gwi.net; nanog at nanog.org Subject: RE: Dial Up Solutions 3Com TC here. 9 users online at the moment. Surprises me that it's that high. Last reboot on the HiperARC was 399 days ago. I almost forgot how to log on to the damned thing. At one time we had over 3000 DS0s worth of dialup capacity. At 09:37 AM 17/10/2015, frnkblk at iname.com wrote: >We're still using USR Robotics/3com TotalControls and were able to >get some spare parts from our statewide telecom partner when they >shut down their stuff. Most common problem we see now are fan >failures, but we just cannabilize existing the fans out of a fan >tray. The volume of calls are so low that there are no hours that >no one is dialed in, and at most we see two people connected at one time. > >Frank > >-----Original Message----- >From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces at nanog.org] On Behalf Of Will Duquette >Sent: Friday, October 16, 2015 2:29 PM >To: nanog at nanog.org >Subject: Dial Up Solutions > >Does anyone have any suggestions on equipment for our ISP that is still >supporting dial up customers? > >At the moment we are running 3Com Total Control 1000's but are running out >of spare parts as we have failures. Given that this gear is so old trying >to source spare parts is proving to be difficult. > >We do have access to an Cisco AS5200 but are looking for maybe a SIP based >solution that could possibly run on our VM farm? Has anyone heard of >anything like that or does it even exist? > >What kind of gear are you running if you still are supporting dial up >customers? > >Thanks in advance > >-- >Will Duquette >GWI >Network Systems Engineer >www.gwi.net -- Clayton Zekelman Managed Network Systems Inc. (MNSi) 3363 Tecumseh Rd. E Windsor, Ontario N8W 1H4 tel. 519-985-8410 fax. 519-985-8409 From list at satchell.net Sat Oct 17 15:54:57 2015 From: list at satchell.net (Stephen Satchell) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2015 08:54:57 -0700 Subject: Dial Up Solutions In-Reply-To: <56225B51.1040600@unlimitednet.us> References: <000c01d108e0$f7117cf0$e53476d0$@iname.com> <1445091833_30479@surgemail.mnsi.net> <56225B51.1040600@unlimitednet.us> Message-ID: <56226F51.1040503@satchell.net> On 10/17/2015 07:29 AM, Jason Canady wrote: > I'm going to go with Justin's suggestion and go with a wholesale > provider such as DialupUSA. It's not worth paying for the lines and > keeping a T1 or better for just a few users. DialupUSA use to charge > around $5/user. They also had hourly and per port options. Looks like > you can port existing numbers to them now. I used them 9-10 years ago > and they were great to work with! IKANO bought them out since then, but > they still operate under DialupUSA.net. They have DSL and T1 options too. The ISP I consult to uses an outsource dial service (don't remember which one). They require us to maintain a RADIUS server accessible from the public internet, to validate callers and handle options and restrictions. You probably have a RADIUS server already, but you may need to make minor (but tedious) modifications. Factor that into your planning. From colinj at gt86car.org.uk Sat Oct 17 17:50:26 2015 From: colinj at gt86car.org.uk (Colin Johnston) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2015 18:50:26 +0100 Subject: Dial Up Solutions In-Reply-To: <56226F51.1040503@satchell.net> References: <000c01d108e0$f7117cf0$e53476d0$@iname.com> <1445091833_30479@surgemail.mnsi.net> <56225B51.1040600@unlimitednet.us> <56226F51.1040503@satchell.net> Message-ID: <8DFEE95F-B3C2-494D-8656-5210423A50D4@gt86car.org.uk> ipass worldwide aka psinet did such with end auth on psinet radius infrastructure Sent from my iPhone > On 17 Oct 2015, at 16:54, Stephen Satchell wrote: > >> On 10/17/2015 07:29 AM, Jason Canady wrote: >> I'm going to go with Justin's suggestion and go with a wholesale >> provider such as DialupUSA. It's not worth paying for the lines and >> keeping a T1 or better for just a few users. DialupUSA use to charge >> around $5/user. They also had hourly and per port options. Looks like >> you can port existing numbers to them now. I used them 9-10 years ago >> and they were great to work with! IKANO bought them out since then, but >> they still operate under DialupUSA.net. They have DSL and T1 options too. > > The ISP I consult to uses an outsource dial service (don't remember which one). They require us to maintain a RADIUS server accessible from the public internet, to validate callers and handle options and restrictions. You probably have a RADIUS server already, but you may need to make minor (but tedious) modifications. > > Factor that into your planning. From dovid at telecurve.com Sun Oct 18 01:31:45 2015 From: dovid at telecurve.com (Dovid Bender) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2015 01:31:45 +0000 Subject: Dial Up Solutions Message-ID: <479412241-1445131905-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-892650478-@b13.c3.bise6.blackberry> You can use Asterisk. All you need a digium/sangom T1/E1 card and a box. ------Original Message------ From: Will Duquette Sender: NANOG To: nanog at nanog.org ReplyTo: willd at staff.gwi.net Subject: Dial Up Solutions Sent: Oct 16, 2015 15:28 Does anyone have any suggestions on equipment for our ISP that is still supporting dial up customers? At the moment we are running 3Com Total Control 1000's but are running out of spare parts as we have failures. Given that this gear is so old trying to source spare parts is proving to be difficult. We do have access to an Cisco AS5200 but are looking for maybe a SIP based solution that could possibly run on our VM farm? Has anyone heard of anything like that or does it even exist? What kind of gear are you running if you still are supporting dial up customers? Thanks in advance -- Will Duquette GWI Network Systems Engineer www.gwi.net Regards, Dovid From nathana at fsr.com Sun Oct 18 17:49:49 2015 From: nathana at fsr.com (Nathan Anderson) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2015 10:49:49 -0700 Subject: Dial Up Solutions In-Reply-To: <479412241-1445131905-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-892650478-@b13.c3.bise6.blackberry> References: <479412241-1445131905-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-892650478-@b13.c3.bise6.blackberry> Message-ID: Whaaaaaaaaaaaaat? -- Nathan ________________________________________ From: NANOG [nanog-bounces at nanog.org] On Behalf Of Dovid Bender [dovid at telecurve.com] Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2015 6:31 PM To: willd at staff.gwi.net; nanog at nanog.org Subject: Re: Dial Up Solutions You can use Asterisk. All you need a digium/sangom T1/E1 card and a box. ------Original Message------ From: Will Duquette Sender: NANOG To: nanog at nanog.org ReplyTo: willd at staff.gwi.net Subject: Dial Up Solutions Sent: Oct 16, 2015 15:28 Does anyone have any suggestions on equipment for our ISP that is still supporting dial up customers? At the moment we are running 3Com Total Control 1000's but are running out of spare parts as we have failures. Given that this gear is so old trying to source spare parts is proving to be difficult. We do have access to an Cisco AS5200 but are looking for maybe a SIP based solution that could possibly run on our VM farm? Has anyone heard of anything like that or does it even exist? What kind of gear are you running if you still are supporting dial up customers? Thanks in advance -- Will Duquette GWI Network Systems Engineer www.gwi.net Regards, Dovid From clayton at MNSi.Net Sun Oct 18 20:08:27 2015 From: clayton at MNSi.Net (Clayton Zekelman) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2015 16:08:27 -0400 Subject: Dial Up Solutions In-Reply-To: <479412241-1445131905-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim. net-892650478-@b13.c3.bise6.blackberry> References: <479412241-1445131905-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-892650478-@b13.c3.bise6.blackberry> Message-ID: <1445198910_34772@surgemail.mnsi.net> I didn't think Asterisk had modem DSP and RAS code?! Huh? At 09:31 PM 17/10/2015, Dovid Bender wrote: >You can use Asterisk. All you need a digium/sangom T1/E1 card and a box. > > >------Original Message------ >From: Will Duquette >Sender: NANOG >To: nanog at nanog.org >ReplyTo: willd at staff.gwi.net >Subject: Dial Up Solutions >Sent: Oct 16, 2015 15:28 > >Does anyone have any suggestions on equipment for our ISP that is still >supporting dial up customers? > >At the moment we are running 3Com Total Control 1000's but are running out >of spare parts as we have failures. Given that this gear is so old trying >to source spare parts is proving to be difficult. > >We do have access to an Cisco AS5200 but are looking for maybe a SIP based >solution that could possibly run on our VM farm? Has anyone heard of >anything like that or does it even exist? > >What kind of gear are you running if you still are supporting dial up >customers? > >Thanks in advance > >-- >Will Duquette >GWI >Network Systems Engineer >www.gwi.net > >Regards, > >Dovid -- Clayton Zekelman Managed Network Systems Inc. (MNSi) 3363 Tecumseh Rd. E Windsor, Ontario N8W 1H4 tel. 519-985-8410 fax. 519-985-8409 From dovid at telecurve.com Sun Oct 18 21:47:31 2015 From: dovid at telecurve.com (Dovid Bender) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2015 17:47:31 -0400 Subject: Dial Up Solutions In-Reply-To: <1445198910_34772@surgemail.mnsi.net> References: <479412241-1445131905-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-892650478-@b13.c3.bise6.blackberry> <1445198910_34772@surgemail.mnsi.net> Message-ID: https://wiki.asterisk.org/wiki/display/AST/Asterisk+13+Application_DAHDIRAS http://www.voip-info.org/wiki/view/Asterisk+cmd+PPPD On Sun, Oct 18, 2015 at 4:08 PM, Clayton Zekelman wrote: > > I didn't think Asterisk had modem DSP and RAS code?! Huh? > > > At 09:31 PM 17/10/2015, Dovid Bender wrote: > >> You can use Asterisk. All you need a digium/sangom T1/E1 card and a box. >> >> >> ------Original Message------ >> From: Will Duquette >> Sender: NANOG >> To: nanog at nanog.org >> ReplyTo: willd at staff.gwi.net >> Subject: Dial Up Solutions >> Sent: Oct 16, 2015 15:28 >> >> Does anyone have any suggestions on equipment for our ISP that is still >> supporting dial up customers? >> >> At the moment we are running 3Com Total Control 1000's but are running out >> of spare parts as we have failures. Given that this gear is so old trying >> to source spare parts is proving to be difficult. >> >> We do have access to an Cisco AS5200 but are looking for maybe a SIP based >> solution that could possibly run on our VM farm? Has anyone heard of >> anything like that or does it even exist? >> >> What kind of gear are you running if you still are supporting dial up >> customers? >> >> Thanks in advance >> >> -- >> Will Duquette >> GWI >> Network Systems Engineer >> www.gwi.net >> >> Regards, >> >> Dovid >> > > -- > > Clayton Zekelman > Managed Network Systems Inc. (MNSi) > 3363 Tecumseh Rd. E > Windsor, Ontario > N8W 1H4 > > tel. 519-985-8410 > fax. 519-985-8409 > From clayton at mnsi.net Sun Oct 18 22:10:37 2015 From: clayton at mnsi.net (Clayton Zekelman) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2015 18:10:37 -0400 Subject: Dial Up Solutions In-Reply-To: References: <479412241-1445131905-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-892650478-@b13.c3.bise6.blackberry> <1445198910_34772@surgemail.mnsi.net> Message-ID: <6850786C-E96A-42D4-8464-C8F1B34412FF@mnsi.net> No modem support - just PPP over ISDN B channels. Sent from my iPhone > On Oct 18, 2015, at 5:47 PM, Dovid Bender wrote: > > https://wiki.asterisk.org/wiki/display/AST/Asterisk+13+Application_DAHDIRAS > http://www.voip-info.org/wiki/view/Asterisk+cmd+PPPD > > >> On Sun, Oct 18, 2015 at 4:08 PM, Clayton Zekelman wrote: >> >> I didn't think Asterisk had modem DSP and RAS code?! Huh? >> >> >> At 09:31 PM 17/10/2015, Dovid Bender wrote: >>> You can use Asterisk. All you need a digium/sangom T1/E1 card and a box. >>> >>> >>> ------Original Message------ >>> From: Will Duquette >>> Sender: NANOG >>> To: nanog at nanog.org >>> ReplyTo: willd at staff.gwi.net >>> Subject: Dial Up Solutions >>> Sent: Oct 16, 2015 15:28 >>> >>> Does anyone have any suggestions on equipment for our ISP that is still >>> supporting dial up customers? >>> >>> At the moment we are running 3Com Total Control 1000's but are running out >>> of spare parts as we have failures. Given that this gear is so old trying >>> to source spare parts is proving to be difficult. >>> >>> We do have access to an Cisco AS5200 but are looking for maybe a SIP based >>> solution that could possibly run on our VM farm? Has anyone heard of >>> anything like that or does it even exist? >>> >>> What kind of gear are you running if you still are supporting dial up >>> customers? >>> >>> Thanks in advance >>> >>> -- >>> Will Duquette >>> GWI >>> Network Systems Engineer >>> www.gwi.net >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Dovid >> >> -- >> >> Clayton Zekelman >> Managed Network Systems Inc. (MNSi) >> 3363 Tecumseh Rd. E >> Windsor, Ontario >> N8W 1H4 >> >> tel. 519-985-8410 >> fax. 519-985-8409 > From lists at die.net Sun Oct 18 22:38:54 2015 From: lists at die.net (Aaron Hopkins) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2015 15:38:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Dial Up Solutions In-Reply-To: <1445198910_34772@surgemail.mnsi.net> References: <479412241-1445131905-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-892650478-@b13.c3.bise6.blackberry> <1445198910_34772@surgemail.mnsi.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 18 Oct 2015, Clayton Zekelman wrote: > I didn't think Asterisk had modem DSP and RAS code?! Huh? I was surprised to find IAXmodem (http://iaxmodem.sourceforge.net/), which is "a software modem written in C that uses an IAX channel (commonly provided by an Asterisk PBX system) instead of a traditional phone line and uses a DSP library instead of DSP hardware chipsets." It appears to be limited to 14.4k due to patent issues and handles faxes only, but its existence suggests writing a software-only data modem should be possible. -- Aaron > At 09:31 PM 17/10/2015, Dovid Bender wrote: >> You can use Asterisk. All you need a digium/sangom T1/E1 card and a box. >> >> >> ------Original Message------ >> From: Will Duquette >> Sender: NANOG >> To: nanog at nanog.org >> ReplyTo: willd at staff.gwi.net >> Subject: Dial Up Solutions >> Sent: Oct 16, 2015 15:28 >> >> Does anyone have any suggestions on equipment for our ISP that is still >> supporting dial up customers? >> >> At the moment we are running 3Com Total Control 1000's but are running out >> of spare parts as we have failures. Given that this gear is so old trying >> to source spare parts is proving to be difficult. >> >> We do have access to an Cisco AS5200 but are looking for maybe a SIP based >> solution that could possibly run on our VM farm? Has anyone heard of >> anything like that or does it even exist? >> >> What kind of gear are you running if you still are supporting dial up >> customers? From list at satchell.net Mon Oct 19 00:21:46 2015 From: list at satchell.net (Stephen Satchell) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2015 17:21:46 -0700 Subject: Dial Up Solutions In-Reply-To: References: <479412241-1445131905-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-892650478-@b13.c3.bise6.blackberry> <1445198910_34772@surgemail.mnsi.net> Message-ID: <5624379A.6010908@satchell.net> On 10/18/2015 03:38 PM, Aaron Hopkins wrote: > It appears to be limited to 14.4k due to patent issues and handles faxes > only, but its existence suggests writing a software-only data modem should > be possible. That's exactly what WinModems were, back in the day. The board was nothing more than a DAA, a codec, and an ASIC to transmit and receive the raw data. For V.34, the software required about 60 MHz of clock; for V.32 bis the load was closer to 24 MHz. From carlos at race.com Mon Oct 19 00:43:55 2015 From: carlos at race.com (Carlos Alcantar) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 00:43:55 +0000 Subject: Dial Up Solutions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I would highly suggest staying away from any type of voip (sip/iax/h323/h248) solution for anything that has to do with modems unless your qos is tight from a to z. It's a good way to go bald real fast lol.... my 2 cents. ? Carlos Alcantar Race Communications / Race Team Member 1325 Howard Ave. #604, Burlingame, CA. 94010 Phone: +1 415 376 3314 / carlos at race.com / http://www.race.com ________________________________________ From: NANOG on behalf of Will Duquette Sent: Friday, October 16, 2015 12:28 PM To: nanog at nanog.org Subject: Dial Up Solutions Does anyone have any suggestions on equipment for our ISP that is still supporting dial up customers? At the moment we are running 3Com Total Control 1000's but are running out of spare parts as we have failures. Given that this gear is so old trying to source spare parts is proving to be difficult. We do have access to an Cisco AS5200 but are looking for maybe a SIP based solution that could possibly run on our VM farm? Has anyone heard of anything like that or does it even exist? What kind of gear are you running if you still are supporting dial up customers? Thanks in advance -- Will Duquette GWI Network Systems Engineer www.gwi.net From byron.hicks at tx-learn.net Mon Oct 19 03:49:33 2015 From: byron.hicks at tx-learn.net (Hicks, Byron) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 03:49:33 +0000 Subject: sfp "computer"? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <73727C92-7227-40B4-8379-E8CAD6586BB9@tx-learn.net> Supermicro makes a -48VDC server that is 1RU with a shallow form factor for telco environments. > On Oct 15, 2015, at 10:23 PM, Baldur Norddahl wrote: > > Hi, > > The problem with that is the lack of power options. I got -48V DC. And no > USB port to power any devices. > > Regards, > > Baldur > > > On 16 October 2015 at 04:47, Jameson, Daniel > wrote: > >> Mk802 might get you close. Sub $50 plus a couple adapters. >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* NANOG on behalf of Baldur Norddahl >> *Sent:* Thursday, October 15, 2015 9:24:21 PM >> *To:* nanog at nanog.org >> *Subject:* sfp "computer"? >> >> Hi >> >> Does anyone make a SFP with a system on chip "computer" that you can run a >> small embedded linux on? >> >> I am sure it can be done because I have a "GPON stick" which is basically a >> ONU with a small embedded Linux all on a SFP module. Does get fairly hot >> however. >> >> My application is to run some small things that I feel is missing in my >> switches/routers. Plug in this imaginary "SFP computer" to enhance the >> switch with a small Linux. The SFP slot provides both networking and power >> to the device. >> >> Regards, >> >> Baldur >> From michael at supermathie.net Mon Oct 19 06:07:24 2015 From: michael at supermathie.net (Michael Brown) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 02:07:24 -0400 Subject: Dial Up Solutions In-Reply-To: <1445198910_34772@surgemail.mnsi.net> References: <479412241-1445131905-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-892650478-@b13.c3.bise6.blackberry> <1445198910_34772@surgemail.mnsi.net> Message-ID: <20151019060724.7143500.88760.13396@supermathie.net> ?> I didn't think Asterisk had modem DSP and RAS code?!? In a way: https://wiki.asterisk.org/wiki/display/AST/Asterisk+11+Application_DAHDIRAS ? You don't need Asterisk but you can use it for logic, etc. M. From mike-nanog at tiedyenetworks.com Mon Oct 19 11:39:33 2015 From: mike-nanog at tiedyenetworks.com (Mike) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 04:39:33 -0700 Subject: ipv6 connectivity bugs Message-ID: <5624D675.501@tiedyenetworks.com> Hello, I have a 7201 and an ASR1000 and they share a link and run ipv4 and bgp over it no problem. I am experimenting and have now added some static ipv6 configuration, and I can't seem to ping across the link. The issue looks like one side us advertising prefixes correctly and the other isn't. Here's my interface configs: ASR1000: interface TenGigabitEthernet0/1/0.110025 encapsulation dot1Q 25 second-dot1q 11 ip address x.x.x.1 255.255.255.248 ipv6 address xxxx:yyyy::1:1/126 end 7201: interface GigabitEthernet0/0.110025 encapsulation dot1Q 25 second-dot1q 11 ip address x.x.x.2 255.255.255.248 ipv6 address xxxx:yyyy::1:2/126 end When I try pinging 7201 from the asr1000, no response. I do see a neighbor entry on the asr1000: sh ipv6 neighbors IPv6 Address Age Link-layer Addr State Interface xxxx:yyyy::1:2 0 xxxx.yyyy.8e1b REACH Te0/1/0.110025 FE80::xxxx:yyyy:FE49:8E1B 0 xxxx.yyyy.8e1b REACH Te0/1/0.110025 On the 7201 however, there seems to only be the link local address neighbor entry for the asr1000: sh ipv6 neighbors IPv6 Address Age Link-layer Addr State Interface FE80::xxxx:yyyy:FE2D:D190 0 xxxx.yyyy.d190 STALE Gi0/0.110025 Can anyone spot what I am doing wrong? Mike- From me at geordish.org Mon Oct 19 11:46:07 2015 From: me at geordish.org (Dave Bell) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 12:46:07 +0100 Subject: ipv6 connectivity bugs In-Reply-To: <5624D675.501@tiedyenetworks.com> References: <5624D675.501@tiedyenetworks.com> Message-ID: Do you have anything in the way of COPP on either box that may be dropping packets? I would imagine the issue is likely to be on the AS1k end. Additionally I see you have different interface speeds at each side. Is the thing in the middle at fault? ND is done using multicast. One final thing is attempt to ping across the link local addresses. Make you you set the source address correctly. Regards, Dave On 19 October 2015 at 12:39, Mike wrote: > > > > Hello, > > I have a 7201 and an ASR1000 and they share a link and run ipv4 and bgp > over it no problem. > > I am experimenting and have now added some static ipv6 configuration, > and I can't seem to ping across the link. The issue looks like one side us > advertising prefixes correctly and the other isn't. Here's my interface > configs: > > > ASR1000: > > interface TenGigabitEthernet0/1/0.110025 > encapsulation dot1Q 25 second-dot1q 11 > ip address x.x.x.1 255.255.255.248 > ipv6 address xxxx:yyyy::1:1/126 > end > > 7201: > > interface GigabitEthernet0/0.110025 > encapsulation dot1Q 25 second-dot1q 11 > ip address x.x.x.2 255.255.255.248 > ipv6 address xxxx:yyyy::1:2/126 > end > > When I try pinging 7201 from the asr1000, no response. I do see a neighbor > entry on the asr1000: > > sh ipv6 neighbors > IPv6 Address Age Link-layer Addr State > Interface > xxxx:yyyy::1:2 0 xxxx.yyyy.8e1b REACH > Te0/1/0.110025 > FE80::xxxx:yyyy:FE49:8E1B 0 xxxx.yyyy.8e1b REACH > Te0/1/0.110025 > > > On the 7201 however, there seems to only be the link local address neighbor > entry for the asr1000: > > sh ipv6 neighbors > IPv6 Address Age Link-layer Addr State > Interface > FE80::xxxx:yyyy:FE2D:D190 0 xxxx.yyyy.d190 STALE > Gi0/0.110025 > > > Can anyone spot what I am doing wrong? > > Mike- > From mike-nanog at tiedyenetworks.com Mon Oct 19 12:29:07 2015 From: mike-nanog at tiedyenetworks.com (Mike) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 05:29:07 -0700 Subject: ipv6 connectivity bugs In-Reply-To: References: <5624D675.501@tiedyenetworks.com> Message-ID: <5624E213.3000502@tiedyenetworks.com> On 10/19/2015 04:46 AM, Dave Bell wrote: > Do you have anything in the way of COPP on either box that may be > dropping packets? I would imagine the issue is likely to be on the > AS1k end. > > Additionally I see you have different interface speeds at each side. > Is the thing in the middle at fault? ND is done using multicast. > > One final thing is attempt to ping across the link local addresses. > Make you you set the source address correctly. > > I am able to ping the link local address of the 'opposite end' from each side, so it looks so me like that is working. I also notice, when I try pinging the 7201 from the asr1000, during that time, the output of 'show ipv6 neighbors" shows me this: sh ipv6 neighbors IPv6 Address Age Link-layer Addr State Interface FE80::xxxx:yyyy:FE2D:D190 6 xxxx.yyyy.d190 STALE Gi0/0.110025 xxxx:yyyy::1:1 0 - INCMP Gi0/0.110025 It looks to me like enough is 'working' that the asr1000 -> c7201 path is working, but not the other way around. And no, far as I know, I have no copp or other filtering that would (to my knowledge) create a one way situation. As far as the middle, I have ip/mpls that is bridging my vlan25 across the network: ! ME3600x - Facing ASR1000 Interface TenGigabitEthernet0/1 switchport trunk allowed vlan none switchport mode trunk mtu 9216 service instance 25 ethernet encapsulation dot1q 25 rewrite ingress tag pop 1 xconnect 10.0.15.3 2 encapsulation mpls mtu 9216 ! ! ME3600 - facing c7201 interface Vlan25 mtu 9216 no ip address xconnect 10.0.15.2 2 encapsulation mpls ! Do I need to make a special provision somewhere for multicast? This seems pretty basic setup to me. Mike- From mark.tinka at seacom.mu Mon Oct 19 12:39:26 2015 From: mark.tinka at seacom.mu (Mark Tinka) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 14:39:26 +0200 Subject: ipv6 connectivity bugs In-Reply-To: <5624E213.3000502@tiedyenetworks.com> References: <5624D675.501@tiedyenetworks.com> <5624E213.3000502@tiedyenetworks.com> Message-ID: <5624E47E.7080600@seacom.mu> On 19/Oct/15 14:29, Mike wrote: > > > Do I need to make a special provision somewhere for multicast? This > seems pretty basic setup to me. Just a shot in the dark, are you able to run port-mode EoMPLS on the ME3600X side as well? Mark. From me at nek0.net Mon Oct 19 09:22:38 2015 From: me at nek0.net (Stanislaw Datskevich) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 12:22:38 +0300 Subject: IMIX or similiar near-user-load packet generator Message-ID: <1445246558.7224.8.camel@nek0.net> Hi all. Is there any opensource packet generator which can simulate a load closest to real users? Usually I use iperf, but it can simply generate huge load. From Matthew.Black at csulb.edu Mon Oct 19 14:39:31 2015 From: Matthew.Black at csulb.edu (Matthew Black) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 14:39:31 +0000 Subject: Dial Up Solutions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Livingston/Lucent PortMaster 3. 48 ports over 2 T1 interfaces and 10baseT all in 3 RU. Supports RADIUS. We dumped our last boxes many years ago; you can probably find some at portmasters.com. Cheers. matthew black california state university, long beach -----Original Message----- From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces at nanog.org] On Behalf Of Will Duquette Sent: Friday, October 16, 2015 12:29 PM To: nanog at nanog.org Subject: Dial Up Solutions Does anyone have any suggestions on equipment for our ISP that is still supporting dial up customers? At the moment we are running 3Com Total Control 1000's but are running out of spare parts as we have failures. Given that this gear is so old trying to source spare parts is proving to be difficult. We do have access to an Cisco AS5200 but are looking for maybe a SIP based solution that could possibly run on our VM farm? Has anyone heard of anything like that or does it even exist? What kind of gear are you running if you still are supporting dial up customers? Thanks in advance -- Will Duquette GWI Network Systems Engineer www.gwi.net From jmaslak at antelope.net Mon Oct 19 15:01:18 2015 From: jmaslak at antelope.net (Joel Maslak) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 09:01:18 -0600 Subject: Static IPs Message-ID: A helpful hint from a local broadband provider (I'm trying to wade through broadband options at home): "If your business is online, then you should have an IP address." I do find that helps. (in fairness, they are talking about static IPs, but it kind of fits with the rest of their marketing which says their highest speed plans include the advantage of "most reliable Wifi" when compared to their lower speed plans) From morrowc.lists at gmail.com Mon Oct 19 15:35:00 2015 From: morrowc.lists at gmail.com (Christopher Morrow) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 11:35:00 -0400 Subject: Static IPs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 11:01 AM, Joel Maslak wrote: > A helpful hint from a local broadband provider (I'm trying to wade through > broadband options at home): > > "If your business is online, then you should have an IP address." > > I do find that helps. > > (in fairness, they are talking about static IPs, but it kind of fits with > the rest of their marketing which says their highest speed plans include > the advantage of "most reliable Wifi" when compared to their lower speed > plans) Key question though: "How many ipads do you have in your business?" (so we can plan the right bandwidth plan for you) From bob at FiberInternetCenter.com Mon Oct 19 15:50:09 2015 From: bob at FiberInternetCenter.com (Bob Evans) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 08:50:09 -0700 Subject: Static IPs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8095b962afd9852ca65a244828f50e58.squirrel@66.201.44.180> Hey, Hey Hey, Let's not propagate this more. NANOG is the wrong place for this - it's not technical or problem solving in nature nor is it community based concerns about industry resources and legislation. It's sale-ish. Thank You Bob Evans CTO > A helpful hint from a local broadband provider (I'm trying to wade through > broadband options at home): > > "If your business is online, then you should have an IP address." > > I do find that helps. > > (in fairness, they are talking about static IPs, but it kind of fits with > the rest of their marketing which says their highest speed plans include > the advantage of "most reliable Wifi" when compared to their lower speed > plans) > From nwarren at barryelectric.com Mon Oct 19 15:55:45 2015 From: nwarren at barryelectric.com (Nicholas Warren) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 15:55:45 +0000 Subject: Static IPs In-Reply-To: <8095b962afd9852ca65a244828f50e58.squirrel@66.201.44.180> References: <8095b962afd9852ca65a244828f50e58.squirrel@66.201.44.180> Message-ID: If not to solve problems or as a technical resource, what is the NANOG for? Thank you, - Nich > Hey, Hey Hey, Let's not propagate this more. > NANOG is the wrong place for this - it's not technical or problem solving > in nature nor is it community based concerns about industry resources and > legislation. It's sale-ish. > Thank You > Bob Evans > CTO -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 4845 bytes Desc: not available URL: From bill at herrin.us Mon Oct 19 16:13:31 2015 From: bill at herrin.us (William Herrin) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 12:13:31 -0400 Subject: Static IPs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 11:01 AM, Joel Maslak wrote: > "If your business is online, then you should have an IP address." > > I do find that helps. This reminds me of the marketing strategy back when I worked for a dialup ISP. We originally sold a 240 hour dynamic dialup account and a 24/7 dialup account. Once we got a couple of good salesman, they pointed out a problem to us: all our competitors claimed they were selling "unlimited" dialup. Our 240 hour plan wasn't competitive with "unlimited" dialup even though few users consumed more than 100 hours. The owner agreed that the basic dialup was not unlimited. He also agreed that we had to be competitive with other ISP's unlimited dialup plans. But, rarely among owners, he agreed that it would not be honest to call a capped dialup plan unlimited. The solution: "unlimited attended dialup." How would we have any idea whether the customer was sitting in front of his computer? In general, we wouldn't. But if he was online 72 hours straight, we had a pretty solid assumption that he wasn't there the whole time. The salesmen had their word "unlimited" without lying or abandoning the usage cap. -Bill -- William Herrin ................ herrin at dirtside.com bill at herrin.us Owner, Dirtside Systems ......... Web: From jjones at danrj.com Mon Oct 19 16:22:52 2015 From: jjones at danrj.com (Jerry Jones) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 11:22:52 -0500 Subject: IMIX or similiar near-user-load packet generator In-Reply-To: <1445246558.7224.8.camel@nek0.net> References: <1445246558.7224.8.camel@nek0.net> Message-ID: Ostinato? On Oct 19, 2015, at 4:22 AM, Stanislaw Datskevich wrote: Hi all. Is there any opensource packet generator which can simulate a load closest to real users? Usually I use iperf, but it can simply generate huge load. From mike-nanog at tiedyenetworks.com Mon Oct 19 16:27:56 2015 From: mike-nanog at tiedyenetworks.com (Mike) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 09:27:56 -0700 Subject: ipv6 connectivity bugs In-Reply-To: <5624E47E.7080600@seacom.mu> References: <5624D675.501@tiedyenetworks.com> <5624E213.3000502@tiedyenetworks.com> <5624E47E.7080600@seacom.mu> Message-ID: <56251A0C.4000700@tiedyenetworks.com> On 10/19/2015 05:39 AM, Mark Tinka wrote: > > On 19/Oct/15 14:29, Mike wrote: > >> >> Do I need to make a special provision somewhere for multicast? This >> seems pretty basic setup to me. > Just a shot in the dark, are you able to run port-mode EoMPLS on the > ME3600X side as well? > > Mark. > > Thats a good question. I would need to move some things around in my network in order to test it, not sure if I have the resources at the moment but I'll keep it in mind. From mark.tinka at seacom.mu Mon Oct 19 16:46:49 2015 From: mark.tinka at seacom.mu (Mark Tinka) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 18:46:49 +0200 Subject: ipv6 connectivity bugs In-Reply-To: <56251A0C.4000700@tiedyenetworks.com> References: <5624D675.501@tiedyenetworks.com> <5624E213.3000502@tiedyenetworks.com> <5624E47E.7080600@seacom.mu> <56251A0C.4000700@tiedyenetworks.com> Message-ID: <56251E79.3050207@seacom.mu> On 19/Oct/15 18:27, Mike wrote: > > Thats a good question. I would need to move some things around in my > network in order to test it, not sure if I have the resources at the > moment but I'll keep it in mind. Well, the switch facing the 7201 is also an ME3600X. Meaning that you can use EVC Xconnect on there like you did on the one facing the ASR9001. EoMPLS on an EFP is the same as port-mode EoMPLS. So where you have the BD for VLAN 25, consider running EoMPLS directly on that EFP instead of on the SVI. Mark. From jeremyparr at gmail.com Mon Oct 19 16:56:35 2015 From: jeremyparr at gmail.com (Jeremy Parr) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 12:56:35 -0400 Subject: Are there any ATT postmasters in the house? Message-ID: I have a mail server that is repeatedly getting blacklisted, but is not sending anything spammy or bulk. From bob at FiberInternetCenter.com Mon Oct 19 17:19:03 2015 From: bob at FiberInternetCenter.com (Bob Evans) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 10:19:03 -0700 Subject: Static IPs In-Reply-To: References: <8095b962afd9852ca65a244828f50e58.squirrel@66.201.44.180> Message-ID: Here's your answer....It's in the charter - join a sales forum someplace....here networking means technical network issues....not marketing networking that you find in so many places on the net.. NANOG serves as a bridge between the technical staff of leading Internet providers close to network operations, technical communities such as standards bodies, and the academic community. NANOG has consistently worked to maintain a high level of technical content in meetings and all related activities. In striving to achieve these goals, all tutorials and presentations, including BOF presentations, are reviewed in advance and are limited to those entirely of a general technical nature, explicitly prohibiting material that relates to any specific product or service offerings. For similar reasons, equipment exhibits are limited to specified special events at each meeting. - See more at: http://nanog.org/history/charter#sthash.HggO2RL6.dpuf Thank You Bob Evans CTO > If not to solve problems or as a technical resource, what is the NANOG > for? > > Thank you, > - Nich > >> Hey, Hey Hey, Let's not propagate this more. >> NANOG is the wrong place for this - it's not technical or problem >> solving >> in nature nor is it community based concerns about industry resources >> and >> legislation. It's sale-ish. >> Thank You >> Bob Evans >> CTO > > From colton.conor at gmail.com Mon Oct 19 18:13:05 2015 From: colton.conor at gmail.com (Colton Conor) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 13:13:05 -0500 Subject: sfp "computer"? In-Reply-To: <3124D386-5349-4A48-BB99-E68E039BA973@danrj.com> References: <3124D386-5349-4A48-BB99-E68E039BA973@danrj.com> Message-ID: Which new switches are you talking about Jerry? On Fri, Oct 16, 2015 at 6:50 AM, Jerry Jones wrote: > A different approach would be use one of the newer switches from Juniper > and run right on the RE if you have those in your network > > > On Oct 15, 2015, at 9:24 PM, Baldur Norddahl > wrote: > > Hi > > Does anyone make a SFP with a system on chip "computer" that you can run a > small embedded linux on? > > I am sure it can be done because I have a "GPON stick" which is basically a > ONU with a small embedded Linux all on a SFP module. Does get fairly hot > however. > > My application is to run some small things that I feel is missing in my > switches/routers. Plug in this imaginary "SFP computer" to enhance the > switch with a small Linux. The SFP slot provides both networking and power > to the device. > > Regards, > > Baldur > > From jjones at danrj.com Mon Oct 19 19:37:35 2015 From: jjones at danrj.com (Anhost) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 14:37:35 -0500 Subject: sfp "computer"? In-Reply-To: References: <3124D386-5349-4A48-BB99-E68E039BA973@danrj.com> Message-ID: <43AD2C82-BDE3-48F0-AC68-CE33CB6504D9@danrj.com> Qfx5100 and I think ex4600. Sent from my iPhone > On Oct 19, 2015, at 1:13 PM, Colton Conor wrote: > > Which new switches are you talking about Jerry? > >> On Fri, Oct 16, 2015 at 6:50 AM, Jerry Jones wrote: >> A different approach would be use one of the newer switches from Juniper and run right on the RE if you have those in your network >> >> >> On Oct 15, 2015, at 9:24 PM, Baldur Norddahl wrote: >> >> Hi >> >> Does anyone make a SFP with a system on chip "computer" that you can run a >> small embedded linux on? >> >> I am sure it can be done because I have a "GPON stick" which is basically a >> ONU with a small embedded Linux all on a SFP module. Does get fairly hot >> however. >> >> My application is to run some small things that I feel is missing in my >> switches/routers. Plug in this imaginary "SFP computer" to enhance the >> switch with a small Linux. The SFP slot provides both networking and power >> to the device. >> >> Regards, >> >> Baldur > From faisal at snappytelecom.net Mon Oct 19 20:02:26 2015 From: faisal at snappytelecom.net (Faisal Imtiaz) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 20:02:26 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Zayo / Sales Rep. Message-ID: <1978329933.1010982.1445284946077.JavaMail.zimbra@snappytelecom.net> Hello, Any Zayo Sales Rep. can you please contact me off list. Thanks. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet & Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, FL 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: Support at Snappytelecom.net From bill at herrin.us Mon Oct 19 20:07:59 2015 From: bill at herrin.us (William Herrin) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 16:07:59 -0400 Subject: Static IPs In-Reply-To: References: <8095b962afd9852ca65a244828f50e58.squirrel@66.201.44.180> Message-ID: On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 1:19 PM, Bob Evans wrote: > Here's your answer....It's in the charter - join a sales forum > someplace....here networking means technical network issues....not > marketing networking that you find in so many places on the net.. > > NANOG serves as a bridge between the technical staff of leading Internet > providers close to network operations, technical communities such as > standards bodies, and the academic community. NANOG has consistently > worked to maintain a high level of technical content in meetings and all > related activities. In striving to achieve these goals, all tutorials and > presentations, including BOF presentations, are reviewed in advance and > are limited to those entirely of a general technical nature, explicitly > prohibiting material that relates to any specific product or service > offerings. For similar reasons, equipment exhibits are limited to > specified special events at each meeting. - See more at: > http://nanog.org/history/charter#sthash.HggO2RL6.dpuf Chill out Bob. The charter contains many guidelines, few rules. "Minimize snark" is not one of the list rules. Or even one of the guidelines. -Bill -- William Herrin ................ herrin at dirtside.com bill at herrin.us Owner, Dirtside Systems ......... Web: From bob at FiberInternetCenter.com Mon Oct 19 21:02:27 2015 From: bob at FiberInternetCenter.com (Bob Evans) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 14:02:27 -0700 Subject: Static IPs In-Reply-To: References: <8095b962afd9852ca65a244828f50e58.squirrel@66.201.44.180> Message-ID: <6151e14a550ad2eff062b4fea9ab0a45.squirrel@66.201.44.180> Bill, It's my list too. 1) You are wrong for telling me what to do ? 2) Are we suppose to check with you to see how far the list can degrade ? You want to tell me to chill - do it offline like a reasonable participant. You should apologize. Thank You Bob Evans CTO > On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 1:19 PM, Bob Evans > wrote: >> Here's your answer....It's in the charter - join a sales forum >> someplace....here networking means technical network issues....not >> marketing networking that you find in so many places on the net.. >> >> NANOG serves as a bridge between the technical staff of leading >> Internet >> providers close to network operations, technical communities such as >> standards bodies, and the academic community. NANOG has consistently >> worked to maintain a high level of technical content in meetings and all >> related activities. In striving to achieve these goals, all tutorials >> and >> presentations, including BOF presentations, are reviewed in advance and >> are limited to those entirely of a general technical nature, explicitly >> prohibiting material that relates to any specific product or service >> offerings. For similar reasons, equipment exhibits are limited to >> specified special events at each meeting. - See more at: >> http://nanog.org/history/charter#sthash.HggO2RL6.dpuf > > Chill out Bob. The charter contains many guidelines, few rules. > "Minimize snark" is not one of the list rules. Or even one of the > guidelines. > > -Bill > > > > -- > William Herrin ................ herrin at dirtside.com bill at herrin.us > Owner, Dirtside Systems ......... Web: > From nwarren at barryelectric.com Mon Oct 19 21:32:16 2015 From: nwarren at barryelectric.com (Nicholas Warren) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 21:32:16 +0000 Subject: Static IPs In-Reply-To: <6151e14a550ad2eff062b4fea9ab0a45.squirrel@66.201.44.180> References: <8095b962afd9852ca65a244828f50e58.squirrel@66.201.44.180> <6151e14a550ad2eff062b4fea9ab0a45.squirrel@66.201.44.180> Message-ID: Sorry everyone; didn't mean for this to happen. Thank you, - Nich Warren > >> Here's your answer....It's in the charter - join a sales forum -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 4845 bytes Desc: not available URL: From A.L.M.Buxey at lboro.ac.uk Mon Oct 19 22:11:46 2015 From: A.L.M.Buxey at lboro.ac.uk (Alan Buxey) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 23:11:46 +0100 Subject: Static IPs In-Reply-To: References: <8095b962afd9852ca65a244828f50e58.squirrel@66.201.44.180> <6151e14a550ad2eff062b4fea9ab0a45.squirrel@66.201.44.180> Message-ID: <47D2EC6D-BF8B-4900-B7B3-4FA10E904AF5@lboro.ac.uk> Aye. It was an amusing anecdote/joke about their poor wording/pitch. I didn't see it as some sales thing....guess others are having a stressful day or got out of bed the wrong side today :/ alan From chip at 2bithacker.net Mon Oct 19 22:42:27 2015 From: chip at 2bithacker.net (Chip Marshall) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 17:42:27 -0500 Subject: sfp "computer"? In-Reply-To: <43AD2C82-BDE3-48F0-AC68-CE33CB6504D9@danrj.com> References: <3124D386-5349-4A48-BB99-E68E039BA973@danrj.com> <43AD2C82-BDE3-48F0-AC68-CE33CB6504D9@danrj.com> Message-ID: <20151019224227.GA5166@2bithacker.net> I don't know if they're pushing it for the QFX5100, but I think on the QFX10k line they're pushing the ability to run another guest VM alongside the 2 JUNOS VMs on the switch's x86 CPU. See page 4 on the spec sheet: http://www.juniper.net/assets/us/en/local/pdf/datasheets/1000531-en.pdf No idea what's involved with packaging the VM and getting it there, but should open up some interesting possibilties. - Chip On 2015-10-19, Anhost sent: > Qfx5100 and I think ex4600. > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Oct 19, 2015, at 1:13 PM, Colton Conor wrote: > > > > Which new switches are you talking about Jerry? > > > >> On Fri, Oct 16, 2015 at 6:50 AM, Jerry Jones wrote: > >> A different approach would be use one of the newer switches from Juniper and run right on the RE if you have those in your network > >> > >> > >> On Oct 15, 2015, at 9:24 PM, Baldur Norddahl wrote: > >> > >> Hi > >> > >> Does anyone make a SFP with a system on chip "computer" that you can run a > >> small embedded linux on? > >> > >> I am sure it can be done because I have a "GPON stick" which is basically a > >> ONU with a small embedded Linux all on a SFP module. Does get fairly hot > >> however. > >> > >> My application is to run some small things that I feel is missing in my > >> switches/routers. Plug in this imaginary "SFP computer" to enhance the > >> switch with a small Linux. The SFP slot provides both networking and power > >> to the device. > >> > >> Regards, > >> > >> Baldur > > -- Chip Marshall http://2bithacker.net/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jkt at iix.net Tue Oct 20 02:11:14 2015 From: jkt at iix.net (Jay Turner) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 02:11:14 +0000 Subject: IMIX or similiar near-user-load packet generator In-Reply-To: References: <1445246558.7224.8.camel@nek0.net> Message-ID: Snabb Switch (https://github.com/SnabbCo/snabbswitch/) Ostinato as already mentioned (http://ostinato.org/) - jkt On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 9:24 AM Jerry Jones wrote: > Ostinato? > On Oct 19, 2015, at 4:22 AM, Stanislaw Datskevich wrote: > > Hi all. > Is there any opensource packet generator which can simulate a load > closest to real users? Usually I use iperf, but it can simply generate > huge load. > > From me at nek0.net Tue Oct 20 05:01:56 2015 From: me at nek0.net (Stanislaw Datskevich) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 08:01:56 +0300 Subject: IMIX or similiar near-user-load packet generator In-Reply-To: References: <1445246558.7224.8.camel@nek0.net> Message-ID: <1445317316.6458.6.camel@nek0.net> Thanks, Snabb Switch's packetblaster seems to be what I am looking for. My goal using it is to find out how much of real users traffic my new softrouter can handle until it begin doing packet drops. > Snabb Switch (https://github.com/SnabbCo/snabbswitch/) > Ostinato as already mentioned (http://ostinato.org/) > > - jkt > > On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 9:24 AM Jerry Jones wrote: > > Ostinato? > > On Oct 19, 2015, at 4:22 AM, Stanislaw Datskevich > > wrote: > > > > Hi all. > > Is there any opensource packet generator which can simulate a load > > closest to real users? Usually I use iperf, but it can simply > > generate > > huge load. > > > > From jwbensley at gmail.com Tue Oct 20 08:00:04 2015 From: jwbensley at gmail.com (James Bensley) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 09:00:04 +0100 Subject: IMIX or similiar near-user-load packet generator In-Reply-To: <1445246558.7224.8.camel@nek0.net> References: <1445246558.7224.8.camel@nek0.net> Message-ID: Check out TREX; https://github.com/cisco-system-traffic-generator/trex-core Cheers, James. From randy at psg.com Tue Oct 20 08:49:02 2015 From: randy at psg.com (Randy Bush) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 10:49:02 +0200 Subject: Static IPs In-Reply-To: References: <8095b962afd9852ca65a244828f50e58.squirrel@66.201.44.180> Message-ID: > If not to solve problems or as a technical resource, what is the NANOG > for? to tell other people how to run their networks and what they should and should not post on the list From saku at ytti.fi Tue Oct 20 12:01:52 2015 From: saku at ytti.fi (Saku Ytti) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 15:01:52 +0300 Subject: sfp "computer"? In-Reply-To: <20151019224227.GA5166@2bithacker.net> References: <3124D386-5349-4A48-BB99-E68E039BA973@danrj.com> <43AD2C82-BDE3-48F0-AC68-CE33CB6504D9@danrj.com> <20151019224227.GA5166@2bithacker.net> Message-ID: On 20 October 2015 at 01:42, Chip Marshall wrote: Hey, > See page 4 on the spec sheet: > http://www.juniper.net/assets/us/en/local/pdf/datasheets/1000531-en.pdf > > No idea what's involved with packaging the VM and getting it there, but > should open up some interesting possibilties. What are those possibilities? How can you leverage VM in your router/switch? Do you have access to the high performance NPU? Or some high-performance link to forwarding-plane? If it's just plain old VM in server, why would you want to save 1kUSD on installing compute to the rack and add complexity/risk to your network infrastructure? JunOS, IOS-XR are very fickle already and fail on the darnest things, I'd be very hesitant to put random VM there without extremely compelling justification. -- ++ytti From rinse.kloek at isp.solcon.nl Tue Oct 20 12:21:41 2015 From: rinse.kloek at isp.solcon.nl (Rinse Kloek) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 14:21:41 +0200 Subject: IPv6 Irony. In-Reply-To: <561CE6FB.3050704@winterei.se> References: <561CD563.3070707@netassist.ua> <561CE6FB.3050704@winterei.se> Message-ID: <562631D5.70801@isp.solcon.nl> I bet most money is spent on hiring software developers to change/review all BSS/NSS systems to adopt to IPv6 ;) Op 13-10-2015 om 13:11 schreef Paul S.: > Anyone in a network administrator position struggling with IPv6 (and > not willing to fix that out of their own initiative) has no business > running any network. > > You should hire better staff. > > On 10/13/2015 06:56 PM, Max Tulyev wrote: >> On our network, we had to spent times more money in people than in >> hardware. >> >> Customer support, especially network troubleshootings and so on... >> >> So upgrade hardware and network admins are NOT sufficient for IPv6 >> adoption ;) >> >> On 13.10.15 06:17, Ca By wrote: >>> On Monday, October 12, 2015, Donn Lasher wrote: >>> >>>> Having just returned from NANOG65/ARIN36, and hearing about how far >>>> IPv6 >>>> has come.. I find my experience with support >>>> today >>>> Ironic. >>>> >>>> Oh wait.. >>>> >>>> Hi, my name is Donn, and I?m speaking for? myself. >>>> >>>> Irony is a cable provider, one of the largest, and earliest >>>> adopters of >>>> IPv6, having ZERO IPv6 support available via phone, chat, or email. >>>> And >>>> being pointed, by all of those contact methods, to a single website. A >>>> static website. In 2015, when IPv4 is officially exhausted. >>>> >>>> :sigh: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> Tech support websites are long tail >>> >>> Pragmatists are focused on getting ipv6 to the masses by default in >>> high traffic use cases. >>> >>> Sighing about edge cases in the long tail with ipv6 ... Not sure >>> what you >>> expect. >>> >>> >> caused me >>> outtages> >>> >>> CB >>> > From sander at steffann.nl Tue Oct 20 13:04:26 2015 From: sander at steffann.nl (Sander Steffann) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 14:04:26 +0100 Subject: IPv6 Irony. In-Reply-To: <562631D5.70801@isp.solcon.nl> References: <561CD563.3070707@netassist.ua> <561CE6FB.3050704@winterei.se> <562631D5.70801@isp.solcon.nl> Message-ID: <01A8EC98-8B04-4B7E-91D2-B64C6F465DD6@steffann.nl> > I bet most money is spent on hiring software developers to change/review all BSS/NSS systems to adopt to IPv6 ;) You should hire a consultant who can then push the software developers to hire people to change/review [..etc..] ;-) Cheers, Sander From mohta at necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp Tue Oct 20 13:10:07 2015 From: mohta at necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp (Masataka Ohta) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 22:10:07 +0900 Subject: IPv6 Irony. In-Reply-To: <561CD563.3070707@netassist.ua> References: <561CD563.3070707@netassist.ua> Message-ID: <56263D2F.5000606@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp> Max Tulyev wrote: > On our network, we had to spent times more money in people than in hardware. Certainly. > Customer support, especially network troubleshootings and so on... Customer support for IPv6 costs a lot, at least because of: 1) Unnecessarily lengthy IP addresses, not recognized by most, if not all, customers 2) Lack of so promised automatic renumbering 3) So stateful SLAAC > So upgrade hardware and network admins are NOT sufficient for IPv6 > adoption ;) Upgrade IETF to upgrade IPv6. Masataka Ohta From johnl at iecc.com Tue Oct 20 17:39:17 2015 From: johnl at iecc.com (John Levine) Date: 20 Oct 2015 17:39:17 -0000 Subject: Spamhaus contact needed In-Reply-To: <561FF008.1030008@cox.net> Message-ID: <20151020173917.1099.qmail@ary.lan> >WAIT A MINUTE! "CBL" is not "Spamhaus", is it?! > >http://www.abuseat.org/ Yes, it is. Informally it was for a very long time via the Spamhaus XBL. Now it's explicit. There's not much practical difference, and the same people are running it. R's, John From mike-nanog at tiedyenetworks.com Tue Oct 20 18:54:59 2015 From: mike-nanog at tiedyenetworks.com (Mike) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 11:54:59 -0700 Subject: ipv6 connectivity bugs In-Reply-To: <56251E79.3050207@seacom.mu> References: <5624D675.501@tiedyenetworks.com> <5624E213.3000502@tiedyenetworks.com> <5624E47E.7080600@seacom.mu> <56251A0C.4000700@tiedyenetworks.com> <56251E79.3050207@seacom.mu> Message-ID: <56268E03.2020203@tiedyenetworks.com> On 10/19/2015 09:46 AM, Mark Tinka wrote: > > On 19/Oct/15 18:27, Mike wrote: > >> Thats a good question. I would need to move some things around in my >> network in order to test it, not sure if I have the resources at the >> moment but I'll keep it in mind. > Well, the switch facing the 7201 is also an ME3600X. Meaning that you > can use EVC Xconnect on there like you did on the one facing the ASR9001. > > EoMPLS on an EFP is the same as port-mode EoMPLS. So where you have the > BD for VLAN 25, consider running EoMPLS directly on that EFP instead of > on the SVI. > > Mark. > > For the group, I finally discovered the problem. Under the switchport config connected to the 7201, I had "switchport block multicast" - which seems to block in only 1 direction (inbound). Removing that line and all of a sudden ipv6 starts to work. Thanks for the suggestions all. Mike- From marka at isc.org Tue Oct 20 22:08:20 2015 From: marka at isc.org (Mark Andrews) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 09:08:20 +1100 Subject: IPv6 Irony. In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 20 Oct 2015 22:10:07 +0900." <56263D2F.5000606@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp> References: <561CD563.3070707@netassist.ua> <56263D2F.5000606@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp> Message-ID: <20151020220820.A18133AD2B3D@rock.dv.isc.org> In message <56263D2F.5000606 at necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp>, Masataka Ohta writes: > Max Tulyev wrote: > > > On our network, we had to spent times more money in people than in hardware. > > Certainly. > > > Customer support, especially network troubleshootings and so on... > > Customer support for IPv6 costs a lot, at least because of: > > 1) Unnecessarily lengthy IP addresses, not recognized by most, if not > all, customers > > 2) Lack of so promised automatic renumbering Upgrade the vendors. Nodes already renumber themselves automatically when a new prefix appears. Nodes can update their addresses in the DNS if the want to securely using DNS UPDATE and TSIG / SIG(0). Apple does this on Darwin. You have to supply the name and credentials (Preferences -> Sharing Edit. Tick "Use dynamic global hostname" and fill in the details). Microsoft does it with DNS UPDATE and GSS-TSIG after registering the machine in the Active Directory database. If two vendors can do this so can the rest. This isn't rocket science. Firewall vendors could supply tools to allow nodes to update their addresses in the firewall. They could even co-ordinate through a standards body. It isn't that hard to take names, turn them into addresses and push out new firewall rules on demand as address associated with those names change. Similarly with everything else that takes a address. It just requires that you think. "There is a address/prefix here. How do I automatically update it." The DNS is a pull mechanism with updates being pushed to it. It isn't that hard to design a generic push mechanism that applications could hook into to receive noticed of address updates pushed to them. > 3) So stateful SLAAC > > > So upgrade hardware and network admins are NOT sufficient for IPv6 > > adoption ;) > > Upgrade IETF to upgrade IPv6. > > Masataka Ohta > -- Mark Andrews, ISC 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: marka at isc.org From nathanael.cariaga at adec-innovations.com Wed Oct 21 00:54:45 2015 From: nathanael.cariaga at adec-innovations.com (Nathanael Cariaga) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 08:54:45 +0800 Subject: Google IMAP Message-ID: Any GMail / Google Apps guys here? Just want to ask if there are issues with imap.google.com ; <<>> DiG 9 <<>> @localhost imap.google.com A ; (1 server found) ;; global options: +cmd ;; Got answer: ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NXDOMAIN, id: 24131 ;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 1, ADDITIONAL: 0 ;; QUESTION SECTION: ;imap.google.com. IN A ;; AUTHORITY SECTION: google.com. 60 IN SOA ns4.google.com. dns-admin.google.com. 105915603 900 900 1800 60 ;; Query time: 16 msec ;; SERVER: 127.0.0.1#53(127.0.0.1) ;; WHEN: Wed Oct 21 02:53:04 2015 ;; MSG SIZE rcvd: 83 -- Regards, -nathan From morrowc.lists at gmail.com Wed Oct 21 01:02:25 2015 From: morrowc.lists at gmail.com (Christopher Morrow) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 21:02:25 -0400 Subject: Google IMAP In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Incoming settings IMAP server: imap.gmail.com Port: 993 Security type: SSL (always) Outgoing settings SMTP server: smtp.gmail.com Port: 465 Security type: SSL (always) ;; QUESTION SECTION: ;imap.gmail.com. IN A ;; ANSWER SECTION: imap.gmail.com. 299 IN CNAME gmail-imap.l.google.com. gmail-imap.l.google.com. 299 IN A 64.233.177.109 gmail-imap.l.google.com. 299 IN A 64.233.177.108 read the fine manual On Tue, Oct 20, 2015 at 8:54 PM, Nathanael Cariaga wrote: > Any GMail / Google Apps guys here? Just want to ask if there are issues > with imap.google.com > > > ; <<>> DiG 9 <<>> @localhost imap.google.com A > ; (1 server found) > ;; global options: +cmd > ;; Got answer: > ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NXDOMAIN, id: 24131 > ;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 1, ADDITIONAL: 0 > > ;; QUESTION SECTION: > ;imap.google.com. IN A > > ;; AUTHORITY SECTION: > google.com. 60 IN SOA ns4.google.com. dns-admin.google.com. > 105915603 900 900 1800 60 > > ;; Query time: 16 msec > ;; SERVER: 127.0.0.1#53(127.0.0.1) > ;; WHEN: Wed Oct 21 02:53:04 2015 > ;; MSG SIZE rcvd: 83 > > > > > -- > Regards, > > > -nathan From jhellenthal at dataix.net Wed Oct 21 01:03:30 2015 From: jhellenthal at dataix.net (Jason Hellenthal) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 20:03:30 -0500 Subject: Google IMAP In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <26A98BA7-07AB-4402-8A88-9129CBA222C9@dataix.net> $ dig @8.8.8.8 imap.gmail.com ; <<>> DiG 9.10.3 <<>> @8.8.8.8 imap.gmail.com ; (1 server found) ;; global options: +cmd ;; Got answer: ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 49149 ;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 3, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 1 ;; OPT PSEUDOSECTION: ; EDNS: version: 0, flags:; udp: 512 ;; QUESTION SECTION: ;imap.gmail.com. IN A ;; ANSWER SECTION: imap.gmail.com. 299 IN CNAME gmail-imap.l.google.com. gmail-imap.l.google.com. 299 IN A 173.194.74.108 gmail-imap.l.google.com. 299 IN A 173.194.74.109 ;; Query time: 28 msec ;; SERVER: 8.8.8.8#53(8.8.8.8) ;; WHEN: Wed Oct 21 01:02:22 UTC 2015 ;; MSG SIZE rcvd: 109 I don?t recall this ever being imap.google.com > On Oct 20, 2015, at 19:54, Nathanael Cariaga wrote: > > Any GMail / Google Apps guys here? Just want to ask if there are issues > with imap.google.com > > > ; <<>> DiG 9 <<>> @localhost imap.google.com A > ; (1 server found) > ;; global options: +cmd > ;; Got answer: > ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NXDOMAIN, id: 24131 > ;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 1, ADDITIONAL: 0 > > ;; QUESTION SECTION: > ;imap.google.com. IN A > > ;; AUTHORITY SECTION: > google.com. 60 IN SOA ns4.google.com. dns-admin.google.com. > 105915603 900 900 1800 60 > > ;; Query time: 16 msec > ;; SERVER: 127.0.0.1#53(127.0.0.1) > ;; WHEN: Wed Oct 21 02:53:04 2015 > ;; MSG SIZE rcvd: 83 > > > > > -- > Regards, > > > -nathan -- Jason Hellenthal JJH48-ARIN From meier-hahn at hiig.de Tue Oct 20 10:33:38 2015 From: meier-hahn at hiig.de (Uta Meier-Hahn) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 12:33:38 +0200 Subject: Short (!) survey about internet interconnection Message-ID: <53D6D7C6-C397-43D4-BE47-44EFC931F794@hiig.de> Dear networkers in North America, Internet interconnection is largely unregulated. However, in some countries, public regulation has emerged ? be it through transparency rules, mandatory peering or licensing terms. Currently, we lack an overview about where regulation exists and we know little about how it affects internet connectivity on a global scale. To start filling this information gap, I have set up a short survey for network engineers, peering coordinators and network-savvy legal staffers. The goal is to crowdsource an initial overview about formal regulation of internet interconnection around the world. Please participate! It takes no more than 10 minutes and will serve the community: http://limesurvey.hiig.de/index.php/675663?lang=en I will publish the results under a Creative Commons license. Also, please consider helping by forwarding the link to fellow interconnection professionals - think of your Facebook or LinkedIn groups, of chat channels and mailing lists. The more regional diversity, the better. Thank you! Kind regards, Uta Meier-Hahn PhD Candidate Alexander von Humboldt Institute for Internet and Society Oberwallstr. 9 | 10117 Berlin meier-hahn at hiig.de | T +49 30 200 760-82 | www.hiig.de/en -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 671 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: From edtardist at gmail.com Wed Oct 21 02:30:31 2015 From: edtardist at gmail.com (Eddie Tardist) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 22:30:31 -0400 Subject: Short (!) survey about internet interconnection In-Reply-To: <53D6D7C6-C397-43D4-BE47-44EFC931F794@hiig.de> References: <53D6D7C6-C397-43D4-BE47-44EFC931F794@hiig.de> Message-ID: On Tue, Oct 20, 2015 at 6:33 AM, Uta Meier-Hahn wrote: > Dear networkers in North America, > > Internet interconnection is largely unregulated. However, in some > countries, public regulation has emerged ? be it through transparency > rules, mandatory peering or licensing terms. > > Currently, we lack an overview about where regulation exists and we know > little about how it affects internet connectivity on a global scale. > > To start filling this information gap, I have set up a short survey for > network engineers, peering coordinators and network-savvy legal staffers. > The goal is to crowdsource an initial overview about formal regulation of > internet interconnection around the world. > > Please participate! It takes no more than 10 minutes and will serve the > community: http://limesurvey.hiig.de/index.php/675663?lang=en < > http://limesurvey.hiig.de/index.php/675663?lang=en> > I will publish the results under a Creative Commons license. > > Also, please consider helping by forwarding the link to fellow > interconnection professionals - think of your Facebook or LinkedIn groups, > of chat channels and mailing lists. The more regional diversity, the better. > When do you plan to publish the results? Will it be just the raw results or a study on top of (or illustrated by) it will be published? Nice survey. > > Thank you! > > Kind regards, > > Uta Meier-Hahn > PhD Candidate > Alexander von Humboldt Institute for Internet and Society > Oberwallstr. 9 | 10117 Berlin > meier-hahn at hiig.de | T +49 30 200 760-82 | > www.hiig.de/en > From edtardist at gmail.com Wed Oct 21 02:37:36 2015 From: edtardist at gmail.com (Eddie Tardist) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 22:37:36 -0400 Subject: IMIX or similiar near-user-load packet generator In-Reply-To: <1445317316.6458.6.camel@nek0.net> References: <1445246558.7224.8.camel@nek0.net> <1445317316.6458.6.camel@nek0.net> Message-ID: On Tue, Oct 20, 2015 at 1:01 AM, Stanislaw Datskevich wrote: > Thanks, Snabb Switch's packetblaster seems to be what I am looking for. > My goal using it is to find out how much of real users traffic my new > softrouter can handle until it begin doing packet drops. > I would recommend Trex with pkgtgen-dpdk or netmap's pkgt-gen. Have your current router average packet size and rate and generate those patterns. If you just use the suggested tools the traffic pattern may be different from what you actually have. http://trex-tgn.cisco.com https://github.com/luigirizzo/netmap > > Snabb Switch (https://github.com/SnabbCo/snabbswitch/) > > Ostinato as already mentioned (http://ostinato.org/) > > > > - jkt > > > > On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 9:24 AM Jerry Jones wrote: > > > Ostinato? > > > On Oct 19, 2015, at 4:22 AM, Stanislaw Datskevich > > > wrote: > > > > > > Hi all. > > > Is there any opensource packet generator which can simulate a load > > > closest to real users? Usually I use iperf, but it can simply > > > generate > > > huge load. > > > > > > > From ops.lists at gmail.com Wed Oct 21 02:55:31 2015 From: ops.lists at gmail.com (Suresh Ramasubramanian) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 08:25:31 +0530 Subject: Google IMAP In-Reply-To: <26A98BA7-07AB-4402-8A88-9129CBA222C9@dataix.net> References: <26A98BA7-07AB-4402-8A88-9129CBA222C9@dataix.net> Message-ID: Right now imap.gmail.com appears down for me from at least two local networks in India, just saying I guess that's what the original poster wanted to ask about. On Wednesday, October 21, 2015, Jason Hellenthal wrote: > $ dig @8.8.8.8 imap.gmail.com > > ; <<>> DiG 9.10.3 <<>> @8.8.8.8 imap.gmail.com > ; (1 server found) > ;; global options: +cmd > ;; Got answer: > ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 49149 > ;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 3, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 1 > > ;; OPT PSEUDOSECTION: > ; EDNS: version: 0, flags:; udp: 512 > ;; QUESTION SECTION: > ;imap.gmail.com. IN A > > ;; ANSWER SECTION: > imap.gmail.com. 299 IN CNAME gmail-imap.l.google.com. > gmail-imap.l.google.com. 299 IN A 173.194.74.108 > gmail-imap.l.google.com. 299 IN A 173.194.74.109 > > ;; Query time: 28 msec > ;; SERVER: 8.8.8.8#53(8.8.8.8) > ;; WHEN: Wed Oct 21 01:02:22 UTC 2015 > ;; MSG SIZE rcvd: 109 > > > I don?t recall this ever being imap.google.com > > > On Oct 20, 2015, at 19:54, Nathanael Cariaga < > nathanael.cariaga at adec-innovations.com > wrote: > > > > Any GMail / Google Apps guys here? Just want to ask if there are issues > > with imap.google.com > > > > > > ; <<>> DiG 9 <<>> @localhost imap.google.com A > > ; (1 server found) > > ;; global options: +cmd > > ;; Got answer: > > ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NXDOMAIN, id: 24131 > > ;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 1, ADDITIONAL: 0 > > > > ;; QUESTION SECTION: > > ;imap.google.com. IN A > > > > ;; AUTHORITY SECTION: > > google.com. 60 IN SOA ns4.google.com. > dns-admin.google.com. > > 105915603 900 900 1800 60 > > > > ;; Query time: 16 msec > > ;; SERVER: 127.0.0.1#53(127.0.0.1) > > ;; WHEN: Wed Oct 21 02:53:04 2015 > > ;; MSG SIZE rcvd: 83 > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Regards, > > > > > > -nathan > > > -- > Jason Hellenthal > JJH48-ARIN > > > > > -- --srs (iPad) From morrowc.lists at gmail.com Wed Oct 21 03:00:18 2015 From: morrowc.lists at gmail.com (Christopher Morrow) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 23:00:18 -0400 Subject: Google IMAP In-Reply-To: References: <26A98BA7-07AB-4402-8A88-9129CBA222C9@dataix.net> Message-ID: On Tue, Oct 20, 2015 at 10:55 PM, Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote: > Right now imap.gmail.com appears down for me from at least two local > networks in India, just saying > deets or it didn't happen... $ telnet -4 imap.gmail.com 993 Trying 173.194.219.109... Connected to gmail-imap.l.google.com. Escape character is '^]'. asd FConnection closed by foreign host. and over 'newcoke' internet: $ telnet imap.gmail.com 993 Trying 2607:f8b0:4002:c03::6c... Connected to gmail-imap.l.google.com. Escape character is '^]'. GET / HTTP Connection closed by foreign host. it's rough troubleshooting without more details folks. > I guess that's what the original poster wanted to ask about. > > On Wednesday, October 21, 2015, Jason Hellenthal > wrote: > >> $ dig @8.8.8.8 imap.gmail.com >> >> ; <<>> DiG 9.10.3 <<>> @8.8.8.8 imap.gmail.com >> ; (1 server found) >> ;; global options: +cmd >> ;; Got answer: >> ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 49149 >> ;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 3, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 1 >> >> ;; OPT PSEUDOSECTION: >> ; EDNS: version: 0, flags:; udp: 512 >> ;; QUESTION SECTION: >> ;imap.gmail.com. IN A >> >> ;; ANSWER SECTION: >> imap.gmail.com. 299 IN CNAME gmail-imap.l.google.com. >> gmail-imap.l.google.com. 299 IN A 173.194.74.108 >> gmail-imap.l.google.com. 299 IN A 173.194.74.109 >> >> ;; Query time: 28 msec >> ;; SERVER: 8.8.8.8#53(8.8.8.8) >> ;; WHEN: Wed Oct 21 01:02:22 UTC 2015 >> ;; MSG SIZE rcvd: 109 >> >> >> I don?t recall this ever being imap.google.com >> >> > On Oct 20, 2015, at 19:54, Nathanael Cariaga < >> nathanael.cariaga at adec-innovations.com > wrote: >> > >> > Any GMail / Google Apps guys here? Just want to ask if there are issues >> > with imap.google.com >> > >> > >> > ; <<>> DiG 9 <<>> @localhost imap.google.com A >> > ; (1 server found) >> > ;; global options: +cmd >> > ;; Got answer: >> > ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NXDOMAIN, id: 24131 >> > ;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 1, ADDITIONAL: 0 >> > >> > ;; QUESTION SECTION: >> > ;imap.google.com. IN A >> > >> > ;; AUTHORITY SECTION: >> > google.com. 60 IN SOA ns4.google.com. >> dns-admin.google.com. >> > 105915603 900 900 1800 60 >> > >> > ;; Query time: 16 msec >> > ;; SERVER: 127.0.0.1#53(127.0.0.1) >> > ;; WHEN: Wed Oct 21 02:53:04 2015 >> > ;; MSG SIZE rcvd: 83 >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Regards, >> > >> > >> > -nathan >> >> >> -- >> Jason Hellenthal >> JJH48-ARIN >> >> >> >> >> > > -- > --srs (iPad) From nathanael.cariaga at adec-innovations.com Wed Oct 21 03:06:06 2015 From: nathanael.cariaga at adec-innovations.com (Nathanael Cariaga) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 11:06:06 +0800 Subject: Google IMAP In-Reply-To: References: <26A98BA7-07AB-4402-8A88-9129CBA222C9@dataix.net> Message-ID: <20151021030606.5320781.82434.8241@adec-innovations.com> Sorry about this... got confused earlier :/ Sent?from?my?BlackBerry?10?smartphone. ? Original Message ? From: Christopher Morrow Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2015 11:02 AM To: Suresh Ramasubramanian Cc: nanog at nanog.org Subject: Re: Google IMAP On Tue, Oct 20, 2015 at 10:55 PM, Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote: > Right now imap.gmail.com appears down for me from at least two local > networks in India, just saying > deets or it didn't happen... $ telnet -4 imap.gmail.com 993 Trying 173.194.219.109... Connected to gmail-imap.l.google.com. Escape character is '^]'. asd FConnection closed by foreign host. and over 'newcoke' internet: $ telnet imap.gmail.com 993 Trying 2607:f8b0:4002:c03::6c... Connected to gmail-imap.l.google.com. Escape character is '^]'. GET / HTTP Connection closed by foreign host. it's rough troubleshooting without more details folks. > I guess that's what the original poster wanted to ask about. > > On Wednesday, October 21, 2015, Jason Hellenthal > wrote: > >> $ dig @8.8.8.8 imap.gmail.com >> >> ; <<>> DiG 9.10.3 <<>> @8.8.8.8 imap.gmail.com >> ; (1 server found) >> ;; global options: +cmd >> ;; Got answer: >> ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 49149 >> ;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 3, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 1 >> >> ;; OPT PSEUDOSECTION: >> ; EDNS: version: 0, flags:; udp: 512 >> ;; QUESTION SECTION: >> ;imap.gmail.com. IN A >> >> ;; ANSWER SECTION: >> imap.gmail.com. 299 IN CNAME gmail-imap.l.google.com. >> gmail-imap.l.google.com. 299 IN A 173.194.74.108 >> gmail-imap.l.google.com. 299 IN A 173.194.74.109 >> >> ;; Query time: 28 msec >> ;; SERVER: 8.8.8.8#53(8.8.8.8) >> ;; WHEN: Wed Oct 21 01:02:22 UTC 2015 >> ;; MSG SIZE rcvd: 109 >> >> >> I don?t recall this ever being imap.google.com >> >> > On Oct 20, 2015, at 19:54, Nathanael Cariaga < >> nathanael.cariaga at adec-innovations.com > wrote: >> > >> > Any GMail / Google Apps guys here? Just want to ask if there are issues >> > with imap.google.com >> > >> > >> > ; <<>> DiG 9 <<>> @localhost imap.google.com A >> > ; (1 server found) >> > ;; global options: +cmd >> > ;; Got answer: >> > ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NXDOMAIN, id: 24131 >> > ;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 1, ADDITIONAL: 0 >> > >> > ;; QUESTION SECTION: >> > ;imap.google.com. IN A >> > >> > ;; AUTHORITY SECTION: >> > google.com. 60 IN SOA ns4.google.com. >> dns-admin.google.com. >> > 105915603 900 900 1800 60 >> > >> > ;; Query time: 16 msec >> > ;; SERVER: 127.0.0.1#53(127.0.0.1) >> > ;; WHEN: Wed Oct 21 02:53:04 2015 >> > ;; MSG SIZE rcvd: 83 >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Regards, >> > >> > >> > -nathan >> >> >> -- >> Jason Hellenthal >> JJH48-ARIN >> >> >> >> >> > > -- > --srs (iPad) From list at satchell.net Wed Oct 21 03:25:58 2015 From: list at satchell.net (Stephen Satchell) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 20:25:58 -0700 Subject: Google IMAP In-Reply-To: References: <26A98BA7-07AB-4402-8A88-9129CBA222C9@dataix.net> Message-ID: <562705C6.7080006@satchell.net> On 10/20/2015 07:55 PM, Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote: > Right now imap.gmail.com appears down for me from at least two local > networks in India, just saying > > I guess that's what the original poster wanted to ask about. From time to time, I see outages of IMAP at Google, but they don't last long. I know it's Google, because I have five IMAP accounts on my local server (Dovecot) and I don't have any trouble with those. From marcel.duregards at yahoo.fr Wed Oct 21 06:25:48 2015 From: marcel.duregards at yahoo.fr (marcel.duregards at yahoo.fr) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 08:25:48 +0200 Subject: NX-OS as LSR router Message-ID: <56272FEC.1050905@yahoo.fr> Dear Nanog'er, Anybody using NX-OS on MPLS LSR and/or Edge-LSR ? We are evaluating the replacement of 7600 LSR routers. Our natural carrier/ISP choice would go for XR everywhere, but we are also curious about NX-OS on the core. Why not NX-OS for LSR and XR for Edge-LSR ? Thank, -Marcel From meier-hahn at hiig.de Wed Oct 21 09:52:04 2015 From: meier-hahn at hiig.de (Uta Meier-Hahn) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 11:52:04 +0200 Subject: Short (!) survey about internet interconnection In-Reply-To: References: <53D6D7C6-C397-43D4-BE47-44EFC931F794@hiig.de> Message-ID: > Am 21.10.2015 um 04:30 schrieb Eddie Tardist : > > On Tue, Oct 20, 2015 at 6:33 AM, Uta Meier-Hahn > wrote: > Dear networkers in North America, > > Internet interconnection is largely unregulated. However, in some countries, public regulation has emerged ? be it through transparency rules, mandatory peering or licensing terms. > > Currently, we lack an overview about where regulation exists and we know little about how it affects internet connectivity on a global scale. > > To start filling this information gap, I have set up a short survey for network engineers, peering coordinators and network-savvy legal staffers. The goal is to crowdsource an initial overview about formal regulation of internet interconnection around the world. > > Please participate! It takes no more than 10 minutes and will serve the community: http://limesurvey.hiig.de/index.php/675663?lang=en > > I will publish the results under a Creative Commons license. > > Also, please consider helping by forwarding the link to fellow interconnection professionals - think of your Facebook or LinkedIn groups, of chat channels and mailing lists. The more regional diversity, the better. > > When do you plan to publish the results? Will it be just the raw results or a study on top of (or illustrated by) it will be published? That is a very good question. Time is tight, but I plan to present preliminary results in time for the Internet Governance Forum, which takes place Nov 10-13, 2015 in Joao Pessoa, Brazil (remote participation will be possible). However, the survey will be online beyond this event (phase II). I am looking at sharing the results in a report before Christmas. Do not nail me down on the exact date :) The raw data will be published, but in a way that the participant?s privacy is fully protected, i.e. no personal data, but also no data from which the organisational affiliation can be derived. In general, the idea behind the survey is to understand if regulation of interconnection is perceived as an issue and if so, where. Because of the sampling method, generalisation of the results will be limited. So the survey shall primarily help to identify avenues for possible future research and foster the discussion within the community. > > Nice survey. Thanks. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 671 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: From job at instituut.net Wed Oct 21 14:46:51 2015 From: job at instituut.net (Job Snijders) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 16:46:51 +0200 Subject: PeeringDB survey results and Board election plan Message-ID: <20151021144651.GK24841@22.rev.meerval.net> Ohai NANOG! Many of you are probably familiar with "PeeringDB", one of the most awesome resources for interconnection. :-) What some of you might not realise, is that PeeringDB is evolving from a bunch of php scripts into a real organisation with a board and appropiate legal registrations! And as PeeringDB stakeholder you can actually have say in how things are run! Please review Chris Caputo's message below and subscribe yourself to the "pdb-gov" mailing list to stay informed about PeeringDB's governance. Being subscribed to the pdb-gov mailing list (in essence) means you are a 'member' and this will grant your organisation one vote in the upcoming elections. Kind regards, Job ----- Forwarded message from Chris Caputo ----- Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 18:49:12 +0000 (UTC) From: Chris Caputo To: pdb-gov at lists.peeringdb.com Subject: [PDB-gov] PeeringDB survey results and Board election plan Results of the survey which ended August 15th, along with anonymous comments are up at: https://www.caputo.com/pdb/20150800_PDB_Survey_results.pdf 91 responses, of which 89 voted for the main question: PeeringDB functions should be performed by: - 35 votes, 39.33%: "An independent 501(C)(6) (Not for profit) PeeringDB, with it's own elected board and members" - 14 votes, 15.73%: "The existing global standards body OpenIX 501(C)(6) (Not for profit)" - 10 votes, 11.24%: "The existing regional organization NANOG 501(C)(3) (Not for profit)" - 30 votes, 33.71%: "I don't care just as long as PeeringDB keeps working" That looks like a clear vote for independence, given that the number for independence is 45% more than the combined votes for OpenIX and NANOG. Based on this, we are going to continue working toward becoming an independent non-profit corporation. In the interest of broad support, this is going to be done with transparency and inclusion using the pdb-gov mailing list. The plan: - If you want to participate in the process, please subscribe to the pdb-gov "governance" mailing list with your PeeringDB account email. http://lists.peeringdb.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pdb-gov - Further emails will be sent to pdb-gov mailing list and posted to http://gov.peeringdb.com/ as appropriate. - pdb-gov is where the draft organizational documents will be discussed and refined. These draft documents are up at: https://www.caputo.com/pdb/ - There will be elections for the initial Board of Directors. Candidacies along with max 300 word statements should be submitted to secretary at peeringdb.com prior to November 15th. Anyone can run for election to the initial Board. - The interim Secretary (tentatively Chris Caputo) will send out ballots to pdb-gov on November 15th, with voting to happen through November 30th. The org docs currently proscribe one ballot per member organization. The interim Secretary will break ties through public random means. The Secretary will not be eligible for election to the initial Board. - The initial Board will decide on officers, per the tentative Bylaws. The draft documents will then be signed and filed. _______________________________________________ Pdb-gov mailing list Pdb-gov at lists.peeringdb.com http://lists.peeringdb.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pdb-gov ----- End forwarded message ----- From andriy.bilous at gmail.com Wed Oct 21 17:54:36 2015 From: andriy.bilous at gmail.com (Andriy Bilous) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 19:54:36 +0200 Subject: sfp "computer"? In-Reply-To: References: <3124D386-5349-4A48-BB99-E68E039BA973@danrj.com> <43AD2C82-BDE3-48F0-AC68-CE33CB6504D9@danrj.com> <20151019224227.GA5166@2bithacker.net> Message-ID: There are also modules for ISR G2 (quite powerfull) which can host OS/Hypervisor http://www.cisco.com/c/dam/en/us/products/collateral/servers-unified-computing/ucs-e-series-servers/data_sheet_c78-705787.pdf On Tue, Oct 20, 2015 at 2:01 PM, Saku Ytti wrote: > On 20 October 2015 at 01:42, Chip Marshall wrote: > > Hey, > > > See page 4 on the spec sheet: > > http://www.juniper.net/assets/us/en/local/pdf/datasheets/1000531-en.pdf > > > > No idea what's involved with packaging the VM and getting it there, but > > should open up some interesting possibilties. > > What are those possibilities? How can you leverage VM in your > router/switch? Do you have access to the high performance NPU? Or some > high-performance link to forwarding-plane? > > If it's just plain old VM in server, why would you want to save 1kUSD > on installing compute to the rack and add complexity/risk to your > network infrastructure? JunOS, IOS-XR are very fickle already and fail > on the darnest things, I'd be very hesitant to put random VM there > without extremely compelling justification. > > -- > ++ytti > From dave.taht at gmail.com Wed Oct 21 18:01:08 2015 From: dave.taht at gmail.com (Dave Taht) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 20:01:08 +0200 Subject: sfp "computer"? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: These have been around for a while and looked awesome. http://www.rad.com/10/Ethernet-Demarcation-SFP/24944/ There was a great ad for it to, not sure if it was this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMfi4NqlpRs Dave T?ht I just lost five years of my life to making wifi better. And, now... the FCC wants to make my work, illegal for people to install. https://www.gofundme.com/savewifi From saku at ytti.fi Wed Oct 21 19:42:06 2015 From: saku at ytti.fi (Saku Ytti) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 22:42:06 +0300 Subject: sfp "computer"? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 21 October 2015 at 21:01, Dave Taht wrote: Hey Dave, > These have been around for a while and looked awesome. > > http://www.rad.com/10/Ethernet-Demarcation-SFP/24944/ > > There was a great ad for it to, not sure if it was this one: > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMfi4NqlpRs Based on Baldur's original message, it seems he is aware of these, but he wants SFP where the control-plane is exposed to him to do what ever he pleases there. I know Huawei has router-in-SFP called 'ATOM', unsure if it's VRP based or something smaller, but I don't think it meets Baldur's use-case either. There is clearly nothing stopping from having general purpose PC on SFP, but there may be insufficient demand. I'm sure if you'll order 1000 of them, someone will make them in non-terrible price. Another SFP+ I'd be interested is, is subrate SFP+, which turns your 10GE port into 10/100/1000 port. Very annoying if after upgrade cycle, for that one port in pop, you need to chain additional switch. I think for this subrate SFP+ there would be market which would justify ordering some volume of them. -- ++ytti From mohta at necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp Thu Oct 22 06:42:37 2015 From: mohta at necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp (Masataka Ohta) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 15:42:37 +0900 Subject: IPv6 Irony. In-Reply-To: <20151020220820.A18133AD2B3D@rock.dv.isc.org> References: <561CD563.3070707@netassist.ua> <56263D2F.5000606@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp> <20151020220820.A18133AD2B3D@rock.dv.isc.org> Message-ID: <5628855D.6070603@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp> Mark Andrews wrote: >>> Customer support, especially network troubleshootings and so on... >> >> Customer support for IPv6 costs a lot, at least because of: >> >> 1) Unnecessarily lengthy IP addresses, not recognized by most, if not >> all, customers >> >> 2) Lack of so promised automatic renumbering > > Upgrade the vendors. Nodes already renumber themselves automatically > when a new prefix appears. Can the nodes treat multiple prefixes on multiple (virtual) interfaces for smooth ISP handover? > Nodes can update their addresses in the DNS if the want to securely > using DNS UPDATE and TSIG / SIG(0). How much is the customer support cost for the service? > This isn't rocket science. Firewall vendors could supply tools to > allow nodes to update their addresses in the firewall. They could > even co-ordinate through a standards body. It isn't that hard to > take names, turn them into addresses and push out new firewall rules > on demand as address associated with those names change. As I and my colleague developed protocol suites to automatically renumber multihomed hosts and routers The Basic Procedures of Hierarchical Automatic Locator Number Allocation Protocol HANA http://delivery.acm.org/10.1145/2090000/2089037/p124-kenji.pdf?ip=131.112.32.134&id=2089037&acc=ACTIVE%20SERVICE&key=D2341B890AD12BFE.E857D5F645C75AE5.4D4702B0C3E38B35.4D4702B0C3E38B35&CFID=723424660&CFTOKEN=36506659&__acm__=1445495785_e3533480d8843be13ab34593a1faf194 which is now extended for DNS update including glue, I know it is doable. But, as it is a lot more simpler to do so with IPv4 with NAT, 48 bit address space by NAT is large enough and NAT can enjoy end to end transparency, I see no point to use IPv6 here. Automatic renumbering of IPv6 *WAS* promising, because it was not necessary to replace existing IPv4-only boxes. Masataka Ohta From nwarren at barryelectric.com Thu Oct 22 12:25:52 2015 From: nwarren at barryelectric.com (Nicholas Warren) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 12:25:52 +0000 Subject: IPv6 Irony. In-Reply-To: <5628855D.6070603@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp> References: <561CD563.3070707@netassist.ua> <56263D2F.5000606@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp> <20151020220820.A18133AD2B3D@rock.dv.isc.org> <5628855D.6070603@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp> Message-ID: Can anyone tell me if the document he linked is work reading? I am currently connected to an IPv6 only network and can't get to it. Thank you, - Nich Warren > -----Original Message----- > From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces at nanog.org] On Behalf Of Masataka Ohta > Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2015 1:43 AM > To: Mark Andrews > Cc: nanog at nanog.org > Subject: Re: IPv6 Irony. > > Mark Andrews wrote: > > >>> Customer support, especially network troubleshootings and so on... > >> > >> Customer support for IPv6 costs a lot, at least because of: > >> > >> 1) Unnecessarily lengthy IP addresses, not recognized by most, if > not > >> all, customers > >> > >> 2) Lack of so promised automatic renumbering > > > > Upgrade the vendors. Nodes already renumber themselves automatically > > when a new prefix appears. > > Can the nodes treat multiple prefixes on multiple (virtual) interfaces for > smooth ISP handover? > > > Nodes can update their addresses in the DNS if the want to securely > > using DNS UPDATE and TSIG / SIG(0). > > How much is the customer support cost for the service? > > > This isn't rocket science. Firewall vendors could supply tools to > > allow nodes to update their addresses in the firewall. They could > > even co-ordinate through a standards body. It isn't that hard to take > > names, turn them into addresses and push out new firewall rules on > > demand as address associated with those names change. > > As I and my colleague developed protocol suites to automatically renumber > multihomed hosts and routers > > The Basic Procedures of Hierarchical Automatic Locator Number Allocation > Protocol HANA > http://delivery.acm.org/10.1145/2090000/2089037/p124- > kenji.pdf?ip=131.112.32.134&id=2089037&acc=ACTIVE%20SERVICE&key=D2341B890A > D12BFE.E857D5F645C75AE5.4D4702B0C3E38B35.4D4702B0C3E38B35&CFID=723424660&C > FTOKEN=36506659&__acm__=1445495785_e3533480d8843be13ab34593a1faf194 > > which is now extended for DNS update including glue, I know it is doable. > > But, as it is a lot more simpler to do so with IPv4 with NAT, 48 bit > address space by NAT is large enough and NAT can enjoy end to end > transparency, I see no point to use IPv6 here. > > Automatic renumbering of IPv6 *WAS* promising, because it was not > necessary to replace existing IPv4-only boxes. > > Masataka Ohta -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 4845 bytes Desc: not available URL: From nwarren at barryelectric.com Thu Oct 22 12:34:07 2015 From: nwarren at barryelectric.com (Nicholas Warren) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 12:34:07 +0000 Subject: IPv6 Irony. In-Reply-To: References: <561CD563.3070707@netassist.ua> <56263D2F.5000606@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp> <20151020220820.A18133AD2B3D@rock.dv.isc.org> <5628855D.6070603@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp> Message-ID: Worth* Thank you, - Nich Warren > -----Original Message----- > From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces at nanog.org] On Behalf Of Nicholas Warren > Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2015 7:26 AM > To: Masataka Ohta > Cc: nanog at nanog.org > Subject: RE: IPv6 Irony. > > Can anyone tell me if the document he linked is work reading? I am > currently > connected to an IPv6 only network and can't get to it. > > Thank you, > - Nich Warren > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces at nanog.org] On Behalf Of Masataka Ohta > > Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2015 1:43 AM > > To: Mark Andrews > > Cc: nanog at nanog.org > > Subject: Re: IPv6 Irony. > > > > Mark Andrews wrote: > > > > >>> Customer support, especially network troubleshootings and so on... > > >> > > >> Customer support for IPv6 costs a lot, at least because of: > > >> > > >> 1) Unnecessarily lengthy IP addresses, not recognized by most, if > > not > > >> all, customers > > >> > > >> 2) Lack of so promised automatic renumbering > > > > > > Upgrade the vendors. Nodes already renumber themselves automatically > > > when a new prefix appears. > > > > Can the nodes treat multiple prefixes on multiple (virtual) interfaces > for > > smooth ISP handover? > > > > > Nodes can update their addresses in the DNS if the want to securely > > > using DNS UPDATE and TSIG / SIG(0). > > > > How much is the customer support cost for the service? > > > > > This isn't rocket science. Firewall vendors could supply tools to > > > allow nodes to update their addresses in the firewall. They could > > > even co-ordinate through a standards body. It isn't that hard to take > > > names, turn them into addresses and push out new firewall rules on > > > demand as address associated with those names change. > > > > As I and my colleague developed protocol suites to automatically > renumber > > multihomed hosts and routers > > > > The Basic Procedures of Hierarchical Automatic Locator Number Allocation > > Protocol HANA > > http://delivery.acm.org/10.1145/2090000/2089037/p124- > > > kenji.pdf?ip=131.112.32.134&id=2089037&acc=ACTIVE%20SERVICE&key=D2341B890A > > > D12BFE.E857D5F645C75AE5.4D4702B0C3E38B35.4D4702B0C3E38B35&CFID=723424660&C > > FTOKEN=36506659&__acm__=1445495785_e3533480d8843be13ab34593a1faf194 > > > > which is now extended for DNS update including glue, I know it is > doable. > > > > But, as it is a lot more simpler to do so with IPv4 with NAT, 48 bit > > address space by NAT is large enough and NAT can enjoy end to end > > transparency, I see no point to use IPv6 here. > > > > Automatic renumbering of IPv6 *WAS* promising, because it was not > > necessary to replace existing IPv4-only boxes. > > > > Masataka Ohta -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 4845 bytes Desc: not available URL: From clay584 at gmail.com Thu Oct 22 14:24:57 2015 From: clay584 at gmail.com (Clay Curtis) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 10:24:57 -0400 Subject: Current IPv4 Options Message-ID: I work for a VAR and we are starting to have customers come to us to help with internet redundancy projects and they are unable to get address space from ARIN. What are the viable options here? I have read about secondary markets, transfers, auction sites, leasing, etc. Can NANOG point me in the right direction as to the most effective way to get v4 space right now in the US? And before we get into the whole IPv6 discussion, yes, yes, we are discussing this with customers as well. That being said, they still need the IPv4 space in the near-term. Thanks all, Clay Curtis From savage at savage.za.org Thu Oct 22 14:30:17 2015 From: savage at savage.za.org (Chris Knipe) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 16:30:17 +0200 Subject: Current IPv4 Options In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 4:24 PM, Clay Curtis wrote: > I work for a VAR and we are starting to have customers come to us to help > with internet redundancy projects and they are unable to get address space > from ARIN. What are the viable options here? I have read about secondary > markets, transfers, auction sites, leasing, etc. Can NANOG point me in the > right direction as to the most effective way to get v4 space right now in > the US? And before we get into the whole IPv6 discussion, yes, yes, we are > discussing this with customers as well. That being said, they still need > the IPv4 space in the near-term. > Sitting in exactly the same position. IPv6 is great and all, but running my business natively on IPv6 means nothing to me if my customers can't reach me. -- Regards, Chris Knipe From alex at alexwacker.com Thu Oct 22 14:47:34 2015 From: alex at alexwacker.com (Alex Wacker) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 10:47:34 -0400 Subject: Current IPv4 Options In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: If you need it long term and can afford the upfront cost, there is still plenty of space you can find for sale. If you are not quite sure how long you will require it or are on a lower budget, leasing it probably a better option. -Alex On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 10:24 AM, Clay Curtis wrote: > I work for a VAR and we are starting to have customers come to us to help > with internet redundancy projects and they are unable to get address space > from ARIN. What are the viable options here? I have read about secondary > markets, transfers, auction sites, leasing, etc. Can NANOG point me in the > right direction as to the most effective way to get v4 space right now in > the US? And before we get into the whole IPv6 discussion, yes, yes, we are > discussing this with customers as well. That being said, they still need > the IPv4 space in the near-term. > > Thanks all, > > > Clay Curtis From hugo at slabnet.com Thu Oct 22 15:15:29 2015 From: hugo at slabnet.com (Hugo Slabbert) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 08:15:29 -0700 Subject: IPv6 Irony. In-Reply-To: References: <561CD563.3070707@netassist.ua> <56263D2F.5000606@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp> <20151020220820.A18133AD2B3D@rock.dv.isc.org> <5628855D.6070603@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp> Message-ID: <20151022151529.GA25920@bamboo.slabnet.com> Couldn't tell you: An error occurred while processing your request. Reference #50.b301e78e.1445526611.3125864 Masataka: Is there an alt link? It sounds like it could be an interesting read. -- Hugo hugo at slabnet.com: email, xmpp/jabber PGP fingerprint (B178313E): CF18 15FA 9FE4 0CD1 2319 1D77 9AB1 0FFD B178 313E (also on textsecure & redphone) On Thu 2015-Oct-22 12:34:07 +0000, Nicholas Warren wrote: >Worth* > >Thank you, >- Nich Warren > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces at nanog.org] On Behalf Of Nicholas Warren >> Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2015 7:26 AM >> To: Masataka Ohta >> Cc: nanog at nanog.org >> Subject: RE: IPv6 Irony. >> >> Can anyone tell me if the document he linked is work reading? I am >> currently >> connected to an IPv6 only network and can't get to it. >> >> Thank you, >> - Nich Warren >> >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces at nanog.org] On Behalf Of Masataka Ohta >> > Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2015 1:43 AM >> > To: Mark Andrews >> > Cc: nanog at nanog.org >> > Subject: Re: IPv6 Irony. >> > >> > Mark Andrews wrote: >> > >> > >>> Customer support, especially network troubleshootings and so on... >> > >> >> > >> Customer support for IPv6 costs a lot, at least because of: >> > >> >> > >> 1) Unnecessarily lengthy IP addresses, not recognized by most, if >> > not >> > >> all, customers >> > >> >> > >> 2) Lack of so promised automatic renumbering >> > > >> > > Upgrade the vendors. Nodes already renumber themselves automatically >> > > when a new prefix appears. >> > >> > Can the nodes treat multiple prefixes on multiple (virtual) interfaces >> for >> > smooth ISP handover? >> > >> > > Nodes can update their addresses in the DNS if the want to securely >> > > using DNS UPDATE and TSIG / SIG(0). >> > >> > How much is the customer support cost for the service? >> > >> > > This isn't rocket science. Firewall vendors could supply tools to >> > > allow nodes to update their addresses in the firewall. They could >> > > even co-ordinate through a standards body. It isn't that hard to take >> > > names, turn them into addresses and push out new firewall rules on >> > > demand as address associated with those names change. >> > >> > As I and my colleague developed protocol suites to automatically >> renumber >> > multihomed hosts and routers >> > >> > The Basic Procedures of Hierarchical Automatic Locator Number Allocation >> > Protocol HANA >> > http://delivery.acm.org/10.1145/2090000/2089037/p124- >> > >> kenji.pdf?ip=131.112.32.134&id=2089037&acc=ACTIVE%20SERVICE&key=D2341B890A >> > >> D12BFE.E857D5F645C75AE5.4D4702B0C3E38B35.4D4702B0C3E38B35&CFID=723424660&C >> > FTOKEN=36506659&__acm__=1445495785_e3533480d8843be13ab34593a1faf194 >> > >> > which is now extended for DNS update including glue, I know it is >> doable. >> > >> > But, as it is a lot more simpler to do so with IPv4 with NAT, 48 bit >> > address space by NAT is large enough and NAT can enjoy end to end >> > transparency, I see no point to use IPv6 here. >> > >> > Automatic renumbering of IPv6 *WAS* promising, because it was not >> > necessary to replace existing IPv4-only boxes. >> > >> > Masataka Ohta > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From joelm at bigleaf.net Thu Oct 22 15:35:54 2015 From: joelm at bigleaf.net (Joel Mulkey) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 15:35:54 +0000 Subject: Current IPv4 Options In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: We recently went through this. After looking around for a bit I found good prices with both IPTrading.com and IPv4Auctions.com. I ended up going with IPv4 auctions.com. The purchasing process was pretty painless, however before I did that I went through the ARIN pre-approval process which was their standard annoying level of verification. It took probably 4-5 weeks for the whole process (ARIN pre-approval, purchase, seller transfer time). I did some careful research on the available blocks from both vendors to try to make sure they weren't used for SPAM (and also simply asked the sellers). ARIN has a VERY helpful tool for this called a WhoWas report which you can use to dig into the history of the block. Joel Mulkey Founder and CEO Bigleaf Networks Direct: +1 (503) 985-6964 | Support: +1 (503) 985-8298 | www.bigleaf.net > On Oct 22, 2015, at 7:24 AM, Clay Curtis wrote: > > I work for a VAR and we are starting to have customers come to us to help > with internet redundancy projects and they are unable to get address space > from ARIN. What are the viable options here? I have read about secondary > markets, transfers, auction sites, leasing, etc. Can NANOG point me in the > right direction as to the most effective way to get v4 space right now in > the US? And before we get into the whole IPv6 discussion, yes, yes, we are > discussing this with customers as well. That being said, they still need > the IPv4 space in the near-term. > > Thanks all, > > > Clay Curtis From list at satchell.net Thu Oct 22 15:54:27 2015 From: list at satchell.net (Stephen Satchell) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 08:54:27 -0700 Subject: Current IPv4 Options In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <562906B3.7080206@satchell.net> On 10/22/2015 07:24 AM, Clay Curtis wrote: > I work for a VAR and we are starting to have customers come to us to help > with internet redundancy projects and they are unable to get address space > from ARIN. What are the viable options here? I have read about secondary > markets, transfers, auction sites, leasing, etc. Can NANOG point me in the > right direction as to the most effective way to get v4 space right now in > the US? And before we get into the whole IPv6 discussion, yes, yes, we are > discussing this with customers as well. That being said, they still need > the IPv4 space in the near-term. Do they have IP address space from an upstream already? Then they can ask that upstream for permission to multi-home that IP space, and set up BGP appropriately. I did this at a Web hosting company a few years back, and it worked just fine. (Eventually my company got its own address space from ARIN and renumbered.) From marcel.duregards at yahoo.fr Thu Oct 22 16:57:01 2015 From: marcel.duregards at yahoo.fr (marcel.duregards at yahoo.fr) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 18:57:01 +0200 Subject: IGP choice Message-ID: <5629155D.3090206@yahoo.fr> Hi everyone, Anybody from Yahoo to share experience on IGP choice ? IS-IS vs OSPF, why did you switch from one to the other, for what reason ? Same question could apply to other ISP, I'd like to heard some international ISP/carriers design choice, please. Thank in advance, Best regards, -Marcel From niels=nanog at bakker.net Thu Oct 22 17:25:35 2015 From: niels=nanog at bakker.net (Niels Bakker) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 19:25:35 +0200 Subject: IGP choice In-Reply-To: <5629155D.3090206@yahoo.fr> References: <5629155D.3090206@yahoo.fr> Message-ID: <20151022172535.GD3097@excession.tpb.net> * marcel.duregards at yahoo.fr (marcel.duregards at yahoo.fr) [Thu 22 Oct 2015, 18:57 CEST]: >Anybody from Yahoo to share experience on IGP choice ? What a weird way to limit your audience. This is NANOG, not Yahoo. Otherwise, http://userpages.umbc.edu/~vijay/work/ppt/oi.pdf -- Niels. From mark.tinka at seacom.mu Thu Oct 22 18:41:04 2015 From: mark.tinka at seacom.mu (Mark Tinka) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 20:41:04 +0200 Subject: IGP choice In-Reply-To: <5629155D.3090206@yahoo.fr> References: <5629155D.3090206@yahoo.fr> Message-ID: <56292DC0.20601@seacom.mu> On 22/Oct/15 18:57, marcel.duregards at yahoo.fr wrote: > Hi everyone, > > Anybody from Yahoo to share experience on IGP choice ? > IS-IS vs OSPF, why did you switch from one to the other, for what > reason ? > Same question could apply to other ISP, I'd like to heard some > international ISP/carriers design choice, please. The "everything must connect to Area 0" requirement of OSPF was limiting for me back in 2008. So we moved to IS-IS. Mark. From damien at supremebytes.com Thu Oct 22 19:12:13 2015 From: damien at supremebytes.com (Damien Burke) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 19:12:13 +0000 Subject: IGP choice In-Reply-To: <56292DC0.20601@seacom.mu> References: <5629155D.3090206@yahoo.fr> <56292DC0.20601@seacom.mu> Message-ID: <2FD50E6D13594B4C93B743BFCF9F52842FE91667@EXCH01.sb.local> Just use rip for *everything* Problem solved! -----Original Message----- From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces at nanog.org] On Behalf Of Mark Tinka Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2015 11:41 AM To: marcel.duregards at yahoo.fr; nanog at nanog.org Subject: Re: IGP choice On 22/Oct/15 18:57, marcel.duregards at yahoo.fr wrote: > Hi everyone, > > Anybody from Yahoo to share experience on IGP choice ? > IS-IS vs OSPF, why did you switch from one to the other, for what > reason ? > Same question could apply to other ISP, I'd like to heard some > international ISP/carriers design choice, please. The "everything must connect to Area 0" requirement of OSPF was limiting for me back in 2008. So we moved to IS-IS. Mark. From Steve.Mikulasik at civeo.com Thu Oct 22 19:21:37 2015 From: Steve.Mikulasik at civeo.com (Steve Mikulasik) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 19:21:37 +0000 Subject: IGP choice In-Reply-To: <2FD50E6D13594B4C93B743BFCF9F52842FE91667@EXCH01.sb.local> References: <5629155D.3090206@yahoo.fr> <56292DC0.20601@seacom.mu> <2FD50E6D13594B4C93B743BFCF9F52842FE91667@EXCH01.sb.local> Message-ID: And Windows Server for your routing platform of choice! -----Original Message----- From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces at nanog.org] On Behalf Of Damien Burke Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2015 1:12 PM To: nanog at nanog.org Subject: RE: IGP choice Just use rip for *everything* Problem solved! -----Original Message----- From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces at nanog.org] On Behalf Of Mark Tinka Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2015 11:41 AM To: marcel.duregards at yahoo.fr; nanog at nanog.org Subject: Re: IGP choice On 22/Oct/15 18:57, marcel.duregards at yahoo.fr wrote: > Hi everyone, > > Anybody from Yahoo to share experience on IGP choice ? > IS-IS vs OSPF, why did you switch from one to the other, for what > reason ? > Same question could apply to other ISP, I'd like to heard some > international ISP/carriers design choice, please. The "everything must connect to Area 0" requirement of OSPF was limiting for me back in 2008. So we moved to IS-IS. Mark. From me at geordish.org Thu Oct 22 19:35:53 2015 From: me at geordish.org (Dave Bell) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 20:35:53 +0100 Subject: IGP choice In-Reply-To: <56292DC0.20601@seacom.mu> References: <5629155D.3090206@yahoo.fr> <56292DC0.20601@seacom.mu> Message-ID: On 22 October 2015 at 19:41, Mark Tinka wrote: > The "everything must connect to Area 0" requirement of OSPF was limiting > for me back in 2008. I'm unsure if this is a serious argument, but its such a poor point today. Everything has to be connected to a level 2 in IS-IS. If you want a flat area 0 network in OSPF, go nuts. As long as you are sensible about what you put in your IGP, both IS-IS and OSPF scale very well. The differences between the two protocols are so small, that people really grasp at straws when 'proving' that one is better over the other. 'IS-IS doesn't work over IP, so its more secure'. 'IS-IS uses TLVs so new features are quicker to implement'. While these may be vaguely valid arguments, they don't hold much water. If you don't secure your routers to bad actors forming OSPF adjacencies with you, you're doing something wrong.Who is running code that is so bleeding edge that feature X might be available for IS-IS, but not OSPF? Chose whichever you and your operational team are most comfortable with, and run with it. Regards, Dave From mikeal.clark at gmail.com Thu Oct 22 19:44:11 2015 From: mikeal.clark at gmail.com (Mikeal Clark) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 14:44:11 -0500 Subject: TWC / XO Chicago? Message-ID: Anyone know what is going on? From rpug at lp0.org Thu Oct 22 19:55:46 2015 From: rpug at lp0.org (Ryan Pugatch) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 15:55:46 -0400 Subject: Cisco WiFI expertise in NYC Message-ID: <1445543746.2576194.417714609.2D81607F@webmail.messagingengine.com> Hi, Looking for a company that has lots of experience with Cisco WiFi in NYC. Our office deployment is struggling due to all of the interfering APs, so we're looking for some outside help to assist us in improving our coverage. If you have any recommendations, please contact me off list. Thanks, Ryan From mark.tinka at seacom.mu Thu Oct 22 19:58:25 2015 From: mark.tinka at seacom.mu (Mark Tinka) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 21:58:25 +0200 Subject: IGP choice In-Reply-To: References: <5629155D.3090206@yahoo.fr> <56292DC0.20601@seacom.mu> Message-ID: <56293FE1.8070902@seacom.mu> On 22/Oct/15 21:35, Dave Bell wrote: > I'm unsure if this is a serious argument, but its such a poor point > today. Everything has to be connected to a level 2 in IS-IS. If you > want a flat area 0 network in OSPF, go nuts. As long as you are > sensible about what you put in your IGP, both IS-IS and OSPF scale > very well. > > The differences between the two protocols are so small, that people > really grasp at straws when 'proving' that one is better over the > other. 'IS-IS doesn't work over IP, so its more secure'. 'IS-IS uses > TLVs so new features are quicker to implement'. While these may be > vaguely valid arguments, they don't hold much water. If you don't > secure your routers to bad actors forming OSPF adjacencies with you, > you're doing something wrong.Who is running code that is so bleeding > edge that feature X might be available for IS-IS, but not OSPF? > > Chose whichever you and your operational team are most comfortable > with, and run with it. OSPFv3 scaled better than OSPFv2 in 2008. But multi-AF support for OSPFv3 was only developing then, so that was not a viable replacement for OSPFv2. OSPFv2 should scale better in 2015 (I say "should" because more routers now have x86-based control planes, but I don't run OSPF so I'm hand-waving). You're right, a single Level-2 domain in IS-IS is akin to a single Area 0 in OSPF. But those "so small" differences between the protocols in 2008 meant I was less eager to try the single area with OSPF than I was the single level with IS-IS. Mark. From A.L.M.Buxey at lboro.ac.uk Thu Oct 22 20:05:16 2015 From: A.L.M.Buxey at lboro.ac.uk (A.L.M.Buxey at lboro.ac.uk) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 20:05:16 +0000 Subject: IGP choice In-Reply-To: References: <5629155D.3090206@yahoo.fr> <56292DC0.20601@seacom.mu> Message-ID: <20151022200516.GA9960@lboro.ac.uk> Hi, > The differences between the two protocols are so small, that people > really grasp at straws when 'proving' that one is better over the > other. 'IS-IS doesn't work over IP, so its more secure'. 'IS-IS uses > TLVs so new features are quicker to implement'. While these may be > vaguely valid arguments, they don't hold much water. If you don't > secure your routers to bad actors forming OSPF adjacencies with you, > you're doing something wrong.Who is running code that is so bleeding > edge that feature X might be available for IS-IS, but not OSPF? well, bleeding edge fearures in ISIS would also depend on your vendor... ours seems backwards for ISIS in most of their product line and we're always wanting more.... heck, I think they've even tried to ensure its not in their training courses either...just the briefest of mentions :/ as for IGP - ISIS - we moved to it from OSPF because we didnt want 2 seperate routing calculations and tables being kept for IPv4 and IPv6 and all routing config is under the one routing protocol. alan From sthaug at nethelp.no Thu Oct 22 20:57:02 2015 From: sthaug at nethelp.no (sthaug at nethelp.no) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 22:57:02 +0200 (CEST) Subject: IGP choice In-Reply-To: <56293FE1.8070902@seacom.mu> References: <56292DC0.20601@seacom.mu> <56293FE1.8070902@seacom.mu> Message-ID: <20151022.225702.78748974.sthaug@nethelp.no> > > The differences between the two protocols are so small, that people > > really grasp at straws when 'proving' that one is better over the > > other. 'IS-IS doesn't work over IP, so its more secure'. 'IS-IS uses > > TLVs so new features are quicker to implement'. While these may be > > vaguely valid arguments, they don't hold much water. If you don't > > secure your routers to bad actors forming OSPF adjacencies with you, > > you're doing something wrong.Who is running code that is so bleeding > > edge that feature X might be available for IS-IS, but not OSPF? > > > > Chose whichever you and your operational team are most comfortable > > with, and run with it. Basic point I very much agree with. However, if that was all there was to it, nobody would ever switch from OSPF to IS-IS or vice versa :-) > OSPFv3 scaled better than OSPFv2 in 2008. But multi-AF support for > OSPFv3 was only developing then, so that was not a viable replacement > for OSPFv2. > > OSPFv2 should scale better in 2015 (I say "should" because more routers > now have x86-based control planes, but I don't run OSPF so I'm hand-waving). > > You're right, a single Level-2 domain in IS-IS is akin to a single Area > 0 in OSPF. But those "so small" differences between the protocols in > 2008 meant I was less eager to try the single area with OSPF than I was > the single level with IS-IS. Some points I've noticed - YMMV. - Needing OSPFv3 for IPv6 when you're alredy running OSPFv2 for IPv4 is less than optimal. I believe nowadays several vendors support OSPFv3 for both IPv4 and IPv6 - but this is not universal. - Probably mostly due to large operators running IS-IS, new features are more likely to show up first in IS-IS. - OSPFv3 security depends on IPsec, while IS-IS uses MD5. You could certainly argue that MD5 is starting to get long in the tooth - on the other hand, it's significantly better than nothing, and significantly less complex than IPsec. - We still have a few cases of needing OSPF towards customers. IS-IS as core IGP makes it slightly easier to ensure that core routing and customer routing are never mixed. I see no reason to mention anything about scaling, since I believe the protocols (both OSPF and IS-IS) nowadays scale to much larger topologies than we're likely to need. Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, sthaug at nethelp.no From thomas.nanog at gmail.com Thu Oct 22 20:59:30 2015 From: thomas.nanog at gmail.com (thomas nanog) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 16:59:30 -0400 Subject: IGP choice In-Reply-To: <20151022200516.GA9960@lboro.ac.uk> References: <5629155D.3090206@yahoo.fr> <56292DC0.20601@seacom.mu> <20151022200516.GA9960@lboro.ac.uk> Message-ID: You still have separate tables for IPv4 and IPv6 with isis and multi-topology still runs 2 spf calculations. On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 4:05 PM, wrote: > Hi, > > > The differences between the two protocols are so small, that people > > really grasp at straws when 'proving' that one is better over the > > other. 'IS-IS doesn't work over IP, so its more secure'. 'IS-IS uses > > TLVs so new features are quicker to implement'. While these may be > > vaguely valid arguments, they don't hold much water. If you don't > > secure your routers to bad actors forming OSPF adjacencies with you, > > you're doing something wrong.Who is running code that is so bleeding > > edge that feature X might be available for IS-IS, but not OSPF? > > well, bleeding edge fearures in ISIS would also depend on your vendor... > ours seems backwards for ISIS in most of their product line and > we're always wanting more.... heck, I think they've even tried to ensure > its not in > their training courses either...just the briefest of mentions :/ > > as for IGP - ISIS - we moved to it from OSPF because we didnt want > 2 seperate routing calculations and tables being kept for IPv4 and IPv6 and > all routing config is under the one routing protocol. > > alan > From bblackford at gmail.com Thu Oct 22 21:22:02 2015 From: bblackford at gmail.com (Bill Blackford) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 14:22:02 -0700 Subject: IGP choice In-Reply-To: References: <5629155D.3090206@yahoo.fr> <56292DC0.20601@seacom.mu> Message-ID: I don't have all the details because I don't fully understand it, but I've heard that if you're running an MPLS/RSVP core, you can only use a single OSPF area. This introduces a scalability ceiling. On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 12:35 PM, Dave Bell wrote: > On 22 October 2015 at 19:41, Mark Tinka wrote: > > The "everything must connect to Area 0" requirement of OSPF was limiting > > for me back in 2008. > > I'm unsure if this is a serious argument, but its such a poor point > today. Everything has to be connected to a level 2 in IS-IS. If you > want a flat area 0 network in OSPF, go nuts. As long as you are > sensible about what you put in your IGP, both IS-IS and OSPF scale > very well. > > The differences between the two protocols are so small, that people > really grasp at straws when 'proving' that one is better over the > other. 'IS-IS doesn't work over IP, so its more secure'. 'IS-IS uses > TLVs so new features are quicker to implement'. While these may be > vaguely valid arguments, they don't hold much water. If you don't > secure your routers to bad actors forming OSPF adjacencies with you, > you're doing something wrong.Who is running code that is so bleeding > edge that feature X might be available for IS-IS, but not OSPF? > > Chose whichever you and your operational team are most comfortable > with, and run with it. > > Regards, > Dave > -- Bill Blackford Logged into reality and abusing my sudo privileges..... From dcorbe at hammerfiber.com Thu Oct 22 00:50:17 2015 From: dcorbe at hammerfiber.com (Daniel Corbe) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 20:50:17 -0400 Subject: Current IPv4 Options In-Reply-To: (Chris Knipe's message of "Thu, 22 Oct 2015 16:30:17 +0200") References: Message-ID: <87lhavohfa.fsf@corbe.net> Chris Knipe writes: > On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 4:24 PM, Clay Curtis wrote: > >> I work for a VAR and we are starting to have customers come to us to help >> with internet redundancy projects and they are unable to get address space >> from ARIN. What are the viable options here? I have read about secondary >> markets, transfers, auction sites, leasing, etc. Can NANOG point me in the >> right direction as to the most effective way to get v4 space right now in >> the US? And before we get into the whole IPv6 discussion, yes, yes, we are >> discussing this with customers as well. That being said, they still need >> the IPv4 space in the near-term. >> > > > Sitting in exactly the same position. IPv6 is great and all, but running > my business natively on IPv6 means nothing to me if my customers can't > reach me. AFAIK you can still receive as much as a /24 from ARIN if you qualify under section 4.10. If you've already got PA space from ARIN then you need to start hiding things behind NAT pools and load balancers. In order to receive an allocation or assignment under this policy: 1. the applicant may not have received resources under this policy in the preceding six months; 2. previous allocations/assignments under this policy must continue to meet the justification requirements of this policy; 3. previous allocations/assignments under this policy must meet the utilization requirements of end user assignments; 4. the applicant must demonstrate that no other allocations or assignments will meet this need; 5. on subsequent allocation under this policy, ARIN staff may require applicants to renumber out of previously allocated / assigned space under this policy in order to minimize non-contiguous allocations. From dcorbe at hammerfiber.com Thu Oct 22 03:55:09 2015 From: dcorbe at hammerfiber.com (Daniel Corbe) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 23:55:09 -0400 Subject: IGP choice In-Reply-To: <5629155D.3090206@yahoo.fr> (marcel's message of "Thu, 22 Oct 2015 18:57:01 +0200") References: <5629155D.3090206@yahoo.fr> Message-ID: <87a8rbo8v6.fsf@corbe.net> "marcel.duregards at yahoo.fr" writes: > Hi everyone, > > Anybody from Yahoo to share experience on IGP choice ? > IS-IS vs OSPF, why did you switch from one to the other, for what reason ? > Same question could apply to other ISP, I'd like to heard some > international ISP/carriers design choice, please. > > Thank in advance, > Best regards, > -Marcel I worked a project as recently as 2009 where we tried to connect two 6509s together over a tunnel interface and wanted to extend Area 0 across it and couldn't because it was a limitation of the version of IOS we were running at the time. That forced us to use isis. It was a decision based on pragmatism rather than design choice; and we were a small operator, too. The choice of an interior routing protocol really doesn't have much implication for small operators. From Gareth.Tupper at warnerpacific.com Thu Oct 22 21:10:58 2015 From: Gareth.Tupper at warnerpacific.com (Gareth Tupper) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 21:10:58 +0000 Subject: TWC / XO Chicago? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: With TWC /XO, or just in general? -----Original Message----- From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces at nanog.org] On Behalf Of Mikeal Clark Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2015 12:44 PM To: NANOG ?[nanog at nanog.org]? Subject: TWC / XO Chicago? Anyone know what is going on? This electronic mail transmission contains information from Warner Pacific Insurance Services that may be confidential or privileged. Such information is solely for the intended recipient, and use by any other party is not authorized. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this message, its contents or any attachments is prohibited. Any wrongful interception of this message is punishable as a Federal Crime. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately by telephone (800) 801-2300 or by electronic mail at postmaster at warnerpacific.com. From larrysheldon at cox.net Thu Oct 22 21:50:01 2015 From: larrysheldon at cox.net (Larry Sheldon) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 16:50:01 -0500 Subject: Current IPv4 Options In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <56295A09.5050204@cox.net> > Sitting in exactly the same position. IPv6 is great and all, but running > my business natively on IPv6 means nothing to me if my customers can't > reach me. Dang! It is a bloody shame that the PTB (or was it the Cabal?) did not see fit to tell us this might happen some day so we could have made plans and made preparations and stuff. -- sed quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (Juvenal) From mikeal.clark at gmail.com Thu Oct 22 22:05:30 2015 From: mikeal.clark at gmail.com (Michael Clark) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 17:05:30 -0500 Subject: TWC / XO Chicago? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4692C6ED-4C03-4E45-9E49-433BA8F1FD9D@gmail.com> Looks like XO is having an issue. Anything I have that routes through them in Chicago is dropping but I don't see anyone talking about it. Sent from my iPhone > On Oct 22, 2015, at 4:10 PM, Gareth Tupper wrote: > > With TWC /XO, or just in general? > > -----Original Message----- > From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces at nanog.org] On Behalf Of Mikeal Clark > Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2015 12:44 PM > To: NANOG ?[nanog at nanog.org]? > Subject: TWC / XO Chicago? > > Anyone know what is going on? > > > > > This electronic mail transmission contains information from Warner Pacific Insurance Services that may be confidential or privileged. Such information is solely for the intended recipient, and use by any other party is not authorized. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this message, its contents or any attachments is prohibited. Any wrongful interception of this message is punishable as a Federal Crime. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately by telephone (800) 801-2300 or by electronic mail at postmaster at warnerpacific.com. From baldur.norddahl at gmail.com Thu Oct 22 22:07:19 2015 From: baldur.norddahl at gmail.com (Baldur Norddahl) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2015 00:07:19 +0200 Subject: IGP choice In-Reply-To: <20151022.225702.78748974.sthaug@nethelp.no> References: <56292DC0.20601@seacom.mu> <56293FE1.8070902@seacom.mu> <20151022.225702.78748974.sthaug@nethelp.no> Message-ID: On 22 October 2015 at 22:57, wrote: > - Needing OSPFv3 for IPv6 when you're alredy running OSPFv2 for IPv4 > is less than optimal. I believe nowadays several vendors support > OSPFv3 for both IPv4 and IPv6 - but this is not universal. > Our configuration is MPLS VPNv6 for IPv6. Therefore we have no native IPv6 in the backbone and no need for OSPFv3. The IPv4 internet is MPLS VPNv4 so there should be no easy way to attack our OSPFv2 instance from outside. The attacker is simply not in the same VRF as the routing protocol. Is this such an uncommon configuration? I am asking because nobody mentioned this in the thread. Regards, Baldur From marka at isc.org Thu Oct 22 22:15:46 2015 From: marka at isc.org (Mark Andrews) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2015 09:15:46 +1100 Subject: Current IPv4 Options In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 22 Oct 2015 16:50:01 -0500." <56295A09.5050204@cox.net> References: <56295A09.5050204@cox.net> Message-ID: <20151022221546.D1CE83B063D5@rock.dv.isc.org> In message <56295A09.5050204 at cox.net>, Larry Sheldon writes: > > > Sitting in exactly the same position. IPv6 is great and all, but running > > my business natively on IPv6 means nothing to me if my customers can't > > reach me. > > Dang! It is a bloody shame that the PTB (or was it the Cabal?) did not > see fit to tell us this might happen some day so we could have made > plans and made preparations and stuff. And in the US +20% of your customers can use IPv6 to reach you. > -- > sed quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (Juvenal) -- Mark Andrews, ISC 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: marka at isc.org From plucena at coopergeneral.com Thu Oct 22 22:17:40 2015 From: plucena at coopergeneral.com (Pablo Lucena) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 18:17:40 -0400 Subject: IGP choice In-Reply-To: References: <56292DC0.20601@seacom.mu> <56293FE1.8070902@seacom.mu> <20151022.225702.78748974.sthaug@nethelp.no> Message-ID: It comes down to personal preference now days in my opinion. Both ISIS and OSPFv3 allow you to run multi-af using the same protocol. Both of them dont run full SPF when a stub network is added/removed (unlike OSPFv2). How about vendor support? Perhaps ISIS has the upper hand here since its been around for so long, as compared to multi-af OSPFv3. If I had to build a network from scratch that need to support v4/v6, I would go with ISIS...but thats just personal preference. Some DC gear doens't support ISIS, so I guess it depends what the network is going to support. BGP as an IGP is also an interesting option =). *Pablo Lucena* On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 6:07 PM, Baldur Norddahl wrote: > On 22 October 2015 at 22:57, wrote: > > > - Needing OSPFv3 for IPv6 when you're alredy running OSPFv2 for IPv4 > > is less than optimal. I believe nowadays several vendors support > > OSPFv3 for both IPv4 and IPv6 - but this is not universal. > > > > Our configuration is MPLS VPNv6 for IPv6. Therefore we have no native IPv6 > in the backbone and no need for OSPFv3. > > The IPv4 internet is MPLS VPNv4 so there should be no easy way to attack > our OSPFv2 instance from outside. The attacker is simply not in the same > VRF as the routing protocol. > > Is this such an uncommon configuration? I am asking because nobody > mentioned this in the thread. > > Regards, > > Baldur > From randy_94108 at yahoo.com Thu Oct 22 23:14:48 2015 From: randy_94108 at yahoo.com (Randy) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 23:14:48 +0000 (UTC) Subject: IGP choice In-Reply-To: <2FD50E6D13594B4C93B743BFCF9F52842FE91667@EXCH01.sb.local> References: <2FD50E6D13594B4C93B743BFCF9F52842FE91667@EXCH01.sb.local> Message-ID: <1343168974.2026653.1445555688691.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> OK I will bite - Yes, RIP everything and let'em all Rest-In-Peace. My 0.02cents about OP's question- "Scale" and Admin-headaches: IS-IS scales far better than OSPF. Admin-headaches - as your OSPF domain grows, do you want to continually re-design; create more areas? You definitely don't want 50k prefixes in your OSPF domain; in area 0 - try it and see how it works. Security& ease-of-deployment: IS-IS is inherently a l2 protocol used over IP and is IP-Version independant and I dare say, more secure at the protocol-level compared to any other flavor of IGP. As to why you see more OSPF than IS-IS(except of a few large one's States-side) is more of a history-lession. ./Randy ----- Original Message ----- From: Damien Burke To: "nanog at nanog.org" Cc: Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2015 12:12 PM Subject: RE: IGP choice Just use rip for *everything* Problem solved! -----Original Message----- From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces at nanog.org] On Behalf Of Mark Tinka Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2015 11:41 AM To: marcel.duregards at yahoo.fr; nanog at nanog.org Subject: Re: IGP choice On 22/Oct/15 18:57, marcel.duregards at yahoo.fr wrote: > Hi everyone, > > Anybody from Yahoo to share experience on IGP choice ? > IS-IS vs OSPF, why did you switch from one to the other, for what > reason ? > Same question could apply to other ISP, I'd like to heard some > international ISP/carriers design choice, please. The "everything must connect to Area 0" requirement of OSPF was limiting for me back in 2008. So we moved to IS-IS. Mark. From mark.tinka at seacom.mu Fri Oct 23 05:31:08 2015 From: mark.tinka at seacom.mu (Mark Tinka) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2015 07:31:08 +0200 Subject: IGP choice In-Reply-To: References: <5629155D.3090206@yahoo.fr> <56292DC0.20601@seacom.mu> Message-ID: <5629C61C.2030001@seacom.mu> On 22/Oct/15 23:22, Bill Blackford wrote: > I don't have all the details because I don't fully understand it, but > I've heard that if you're running an MPLS/RSVP core, you can only use > a single OSPF area. This introduces a scalability ceiling. Not true. The rate of development of advanced features in OSPF and IS-IS is at a similar pace today. The main issue is implementation. Some vendors will implement the new capabilities in one protocol sooner than the other. The features may eventually filter down to the other protocol, or not. It is entirely a situation specific to your vendor. For example, IIRC, LFA came to IS-IS in Junos first, and then OSPF followed (or was it the other way around, I can't remember - but support didn't come for both immediately). Same thing at Cisco. Quagga is an example of a case where IS-IS is seriously lagging behind OSPF to the point of not being useable at all. So while the spec. will have parity, your choice of vendor will be a practical factor. Mark. From mohta at necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp Fri Oct 23 06:24:39 2015 From: mohta at necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp (Masataka Ohta) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2015 15:24:39 +0900 Subject: IPv6 Irony. In-Reply-To: <20151022151529.GA25920@bamboo.slabnet.com> References: <561CD563.3070707@netassist.ua> <56263D2F.5000606@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp> <20151020220820.A18133AD2B3D@rock.dv.isc.org> <5628855D.6070603@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp> <20151022151529.GA25920@bamboo.slabnet.com> Message-ID: <5629D2A7.4060100@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp> Hugo Slabbert wrote: > Couldn't tell you: > > An error occurred while processing your request. > > Reference #50.b301e78e.1445526611.3125864 > Masataka: Is there an alt link? It sounds like it could be an > interesting read. Sorry, that should have been a temporally link and the permanent one should be: http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=2089037 Masataka Ohta From marcel.duregards at yahoo.fr Fri Oct 23 08:41:49 2015 From: marcel.duregards at yahoo.fr (marcel.duregards at yahoo.fr) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2015 10:41:49 +0200 Subject: IGP choice In-Reply-To: <20151022172535.GD3097@excession.tpb.net> References: <5629155D.3090206@yahoo.fr> <20151022172535.GD3097@excession.tpb.net> Message-ID: <5629F2CD.5040305@yahoo.fr> sorry for that, but the only one I've heard about switching his core IGP is Yahoo. I've no precision, and it's really interest me. I know that there had OSPF in the DC area, and ISIS in the core, and decide to switch the core from ISIS to OSPF. Why spend so much time/risk to switch from ISIS to OSPF, _in the core_ a not so minor impact/task ? So I could guess it's for maintain only one IGP and have standardized config. But why OSPF against ISIS ? What could be the drivers? People skills (more people know OSPF than ISIS) --> operational reason ? In my understanding of both protocols, from 3 year old documentation (2012): OSPF is more or less limited to hundred routers in the backbone area. Yeah, ok, but back in 2005 I know some ISP which run 200 routers in the backbone area (only one area) w/o problem. What about today ? protocol design limitation or resources (memory+cpu) limitation ? If ressources only, as of today we can put also 1000 ospf routers in one area... Cisco recommend no more than 50 routers per area with OSPF. Is it a conservative value ? It also depend on the number of networks/router, of course. ISIS is not. ISIS scale up to thousand routers in the same area. Some docs say that ISIS converge faster due to fewer LSP traffic (compare to OSPF which generate more LSA traffic, therefore use more CPU) and better timers. Timers can also be tuned with OSPF, so I do not sea a real argument with better timers for ISIS (same story between HSRP versus VRRP with better timers for VRRP). As your doc say (reason to choose ISIS): better convergence, better security, simplicity. -Marcel On 22.10.2015 19:25, Niels Bakker wrote: > * marcel.duregards at yahoo.fr (marcel.duregards at yahoo.fr) [Thu 22 Oct > 2015, 18:57 CEST]: >> Anybody from Yahoo to share experience on IGP choice ? > > What a weird way to limit your audience. This is NANOG, not Yahoo. > > Otherwise, http://userpages.umbc.edu/~vijay/work/ppt/oi.pdf > > > -- Niels. From saku at ytti.fi Fri Oct 23 08:48:14 2015 From: saku at ytti.fi (Saku Ytti) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2015 11:48:14 +0300 Subject: IGP choice In-Reply-To: <5629C61C.2030001@seacom.mu> References: <5629155D.3090206@yahoo.fr> <56292DC0.20601@seacom.mu> <5629C61C.2030001@seacom.mu> Message-ID: On 23 October 2015 at 08:31, Mark Tinka wrote: Hey, > Quagga is an example of a case where IS-IS is seriously lagging behind > OSPF to the point of not being useable at all. I believe this is because you need 802.3 (as opposed to EthernetII) and rudimentary CLNS implementation, both which are very annoying from programmer point of view. I hope ISIS would migrate to EthernetII and IP. From security point of view, people often state how it's better that it's not IP, but in reality, how many have verified the flip side of this proposal, how easy it is to protect yourself from ISIS attack from connected host? For some platforms the answer is, there is absolutely no way, and any connected host can bring you down with trivial amount of data. -- ++ytti From mark.tinka at seacom.mu Fri Oct 23 08:54:43 2015 From: mark.tinka at seacom.mu (Mark Tinka) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2015 10:54:43 +0200 Subject: IGP choice In-Reply-To: References: <5629155D.3090206@yahoo.fr> <56292DC0.20601@seacom.mu> <5629C61C.2030001@seacom.mu> Message-ID: <5629F5D3.2010809@seacom.mu> On 23/Oct/15 10:48, Saku Ytti wrote: > I believe this is because you need 802.3 (as opposed to EthernetII) > and rudimentary CLNS implementation, both which are very annoying from > programmer point of view. I'm not really sure what the hold-up is, but I know Mikael, together with the good folks at netDEF (Martin and Alistair) are working hard on fixing these issues. While I have not had much time to provide them with feedback on their progress, it is high on my agenda - not to mention funding support for them will only help the cause. > I hope ISIS would migrate to EthernetII and IP. From security point of > view, people often state how it's better that it's not IP, but in > reality, how many have verified the flip side of this proposal, how > easy it is to protect yourself from ISIS attack from connected host? > For some platforms the answer is, there is absolutely no way, and any > connected host can bring you down with trivial amount of data. Well, on the basis that an attack is made easier if you are running IS-IS on a vulnerable interface, in theory, an attack would be highly difficult if a vulnerable interface were not running IS-IS to begin with. But I do not have any empirical data on any attempts to attack IS-IS, successfully or otherwise. So your guess is as good as mine. Mark. From saku at ytti.fi Fri Oct 23 08:57:36 2015 From: saku at ytti.fi (Saku Ytti) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2015 11:57:36 +0300 Subject: IGP choice In-Reply-To: <5629F5D3.2010809@seacom.mu> References: <5629155D.3090206@yahoo.fr> <56292DC0.20601@seacom.mu> <5629C61C.2030001@seacom.mu> <5629F5D3.2010809@seacom.mu> Message-ID: On 23 October 2015 at 11:54, Mark Tinka wrote: Hey, > Well, on the basis that an attack is made easier if you are running > IS-IS on a vulnerable interface, in theory, an attack would be highly > difficult if a vulnerable interface were not running IS-IS to begin with. Assuming that interface won't punt ISIS if ISIS is not configured, unfortunately this assumption isn't true for all platforms. -- ++ytti From marcel.duregards at yahoo.fr Fri Oct 23 09:00:17 2015 From: marcel.duregards at yahoo.fr (marcel.duregards at yahoo.fr) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2015 11:00:17 +0200 Subject: IGP choice In-Reply-To: References: <5629155D.3090206@yahoo.fr> <56292DC0.20601@seacom.mu> Message-ID: <5629F721.7050004@yahoo.fr> by having multiple areas, therefore ABR which deny routers and network LSA, you introduce summarization (ABR only send summary LSA, mean subnet info, not topology info) in your network. Thus you loose informations and do not have a complete topology of your network. I guess MPLS/TE prefer to seat on top of a real topology ? On 22.10.2015 23:22, Bill Blackford wrote: > I don't have all the details because I don't fully understand it, but I've > heard that if you're running an MPLS/RSVP core, you can only use a single > OSPF area. This introduces a scalability ceiling. > > > > On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 12:35 PM, Dave Bell wrote: > >> On 22 October 2015 at 19:41, Mark Tinka wrote: >>> The "everything must connect to Area 0" requirement of OSPF was limiting >>> for me back in 2008. >> >> I'm unsure if this is a serious argument, but its such a poor point >> today. Everything has to be connected to a level 2 in IS-IS. If you >> want a flat area 0 network in OSPF, go nuts. As long as you are >> sensible about what you put in your IGP, both IS-IS and OSPF scale >> very well. >> >> The differences between the two protocols are so small, that people >> really grasp at straws when 'proving' that one is better over the >> other. 'IS-IS doesn't work over IP, so its more secure'. 'IS-IS uses >> TLVs so new features are quicker to implement'. While these may be >> vaguely valid arguments, they don't hold much water. If you don't >> secure your routers to bad actors forming OSPF adjacencies with you, >> you're doing something wrong.Who is running code that is so bleeding >> edge that feature X might be available for IS-IS, but not OSPF? >> >> Chose whichever you and your operational team are most comfortable >> with, and run with it. >> >> Regards, >> Dave >> > > > From mark.tinka at seacom.mu Fri Oct 23 09:15:27 2015 From: mark.tinka at seacom.mu (Mark Tinka) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2015 11:15:27 +0200 Subject: IGP choice In-Reply-To: <5629F721.7050004@yahoo.fr> References: <5629155D.3090206@yahoo.fr> <56292DC0.20601@seacom.mu> <5629F721.7050004@yahoo.fr> Message-ID: <5629FAAF.1010504@seacom.mu> On 23/Oct/15 11:00, marcel.duregards at yahoo.fr wrote: > by having multiple areas, therefore ABR which deny routers and network > LSA, you introduce summarization (ABR only send summary LSA, mean > subnet info, not topology info) in your network. > Thus you loose informations and do not have a complete topology of > your network. I guess MPLS/TE prefer to seat on top of a real topology ? Yes, summarization in the IGP has the potential to create blackholes and/or loops. This reminds me of: http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-swallow-mpls-aggregate-fec-01.txt Mark. From randy at psg.com Fri Oct 23 10:39:02 2015 From: randy at psg.com (Randy Bush) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2015 19:39:02 +0900 Subject: PeeringDB survey results and Board election plan In-Reply-To: <20151021144651.GK24841@22.rev.meerval.net> References: <20151021144651.GK24841@22.rev.meerval.net> Message-ID: ghu saave us from more committees From jra at baylink.com Fri Oct 23 15:02:09 2015 From: jra at baylink.com (Jay Ashworth) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2015 11:02:09 -0400 (EDT) Subject: VPS in DC/VA on L3? Message-ID: <32451547.75.1445612529382.JavaMail.root@benjamin.baylink.com> We need to do host-mode IPSEC out of AWS to a company in the DC/VA area that is on L3; AWS apparently will only do network mode IPSEC, and they won't take that, so we'll need to hop. Anyone got a VPS provider in that area they like so we can set up the bank-shot? Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth Baylink jra at baylink.com Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100 Ashworth & Associates http://www.bcp38.info 2000 Land Rover DII St Petersburg FL USA BCP38: Ask For It By Name! +1 727 647 1274 From morrowc.lists at gmail.com Fri Oct 23 15:55:25 2015 From: morrowc.lists at gmail.com (Christopher Morrow) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2015 11:55:25 -0400 Subject: VPS in DC/VA on L3? In-Reply-To: <32451547.75.1445612529382.JavaMail.root@benjamin.baylink.com> References: <32451547.75.1445612529382.JavaMail.root@benjamin.baylink.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 11:02 AM, Jay Ashworth wrote: > We need to do host-mode IPSEC out of AWS to a company in the DC/VA area that > is on L3; AWS apparently will only do network mode IPSEC, and they won't take > that, so we'll need to hop. > 'will only do network mode' .... because the VM you run in aws can't do ipsec to your pix? From mikeal.clark at gmail.com Fri Oct 23 15:58:13 2015 From: mikeal.clark at gmail.com (Mikeal Clark) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2015 10:58:13 -0500 Subject: TWC / XO Chicago? In-Reply-To: References: <4692C6ED-4C03-4E45-9E49-433BA8F1FD9D@gmail.com> Message-ID: Thanks! On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 1:59 AM, Krenn, Thomas A wrote: > We're told by AT&T this started around 11:30 CT and by XO that it was resolved around 22:00 CT. Seems a link between AS7018 and AS2828 was saturated in Chicago. > > ____________________________ > Tom Krenn | Optum > IT Network Services > > -----Original Message----- > From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces at nanog.org] On Behalf Of Michael Clark > Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2015 5:06 PM > To: Gareth Tupper > Cc: NANOG ?[nanog at nanog.org]? > Subject: Re: TWC / XO Chicago? > > Looks like XO is having an issue. Anything I have that routes through them in Chicago is dropping but I don't see anyone talking about it. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Oct 22, 2015, at 4:10 PM, Gareth Tupper wrote: >> >> With TWC /XO, or just in general? >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces at nanog.org] On Behalf Of Mikeal Clark >> Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2015 12:44 PM >> To: NANOG ?[nanog at nanog.org]? >> Subject: TWC / XO Chicago? >> >> Anyone know what is going on? >> >> >> >> >> This electronic mail transmission contains information from Warner Pacific Insurance Services that may be confidential or privileged. Such information is solely for the intended recipient, and use by any other party is not authorized. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this message, its contents or any attachments is prohibited. Any wrongful interception of this message is punishable as a Federal Crime. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately by telephone (800) 801-2300 or by electronic mail at postmaster at warnerpacific.com. > > > This e-mail, including attachments, may include confidential and/or > proprietary information, and may be used only by the person or entity > to which it is addressed. If the reader of this e-mail is not the intended > recipient or his or her authorized agent, the reader is hereby notified > that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is > prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the > sender by replying to this message and delete this e-mail immediately. From jra at baylink.com Fri Oct 23 16:03:14 2015 From: jra at baylink.com (Jay Ashworth) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2015 12:03:14 -0400 (EDT) Subject: VPS in DC/VA on L3? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8436367.77.1445616194056.JavaMail.root@benjamin.baylink.com> ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Christopher Morrow" > On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 11:02 AM, Jay Ashworth > wrote: > > We need to do host-mode IPSEC out of AWS to a company in the DC/VA area that > > is on L3; AWS apparently will only do network mode IPSEC, and they won't take > > that, so we'll need to hop. > > 'will only do network mode' .... because the VM you run in aws can't > do ipsec to your pix? Pick your problem: AWS's productized IPSEC VPC gateway won't do host-mode, or so I am told, and Our customer won't do network mode, and Our customer also won't accept IPSEC traffic that's been NATted, so we can't do it from an AWS host cause EIPs are natted; there is, TTBOMK *no* way to get a non-natted IP on an EC2/VPC host. Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth Baylink jra at baylink.com Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100 Ashworth & Associates http://www.bcp38.info 2000 Land Rover DII St Petersburg FL USA BCP38: Ask For It By Name! +1 727 647 1274 From jra at baylink.com Fri Oct 23 16:20:28 2015 From: jra at baylink.com (Jay Ashworth) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2015 12:20:28 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Google IMAP (with k9mail) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5117998.87.1445617228798.JavaMail.root@benjamin.baylink.com> ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Christopher Morrow" > Incoming settings > IMAP server: imap.gmail.com > Port: 993 > Security type: SSL (always) > > Outgoing settings > SMTP server: smtp.gmail.com > Port: 465 > Security type: SSL (always) Hijack: to use k9mail with gmail IMAP, I have to enable "allow less secure clients" in the gmail web UI, but neither the Gmail people nor the k9mail people seem to want to actually document which protocol is disliked or required. Anyone have any actual facts on this point? Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth Baylink jra at baylink.com Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100 Ashworth & Associates http://www.bcp38.info 2000 Land Rover DII St Petersburg FL USA BCP38: Ask For It By Name! +1 727 647 1274 From mpetach at netflight.com Fri Oct 23 16:21:15 2015 From: mpetach at netflight.com (Matthew Petach) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2015 09:21:15 -0700 Subject: IGP choice In-Reply-To: <5629155D.3090206@yahoo.fr> References: <5629155D.3090206@yahoo.fr> Message-ID: On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 9:57 AM, marcel.duregards at yahoo.fr wrote: > Hi everyone, > > Anybody from Yahoo to share experience on IGP choice ? > IS-IS vs OSPF, why did you switch from one to the other, for what reason ? > Same question could apply to other ISP, I'd like to heard some international > ISP/carriers design choice, please. > > Thank in advance, > Best regards, > -Marcel When we decided to go dual-stack many many years ago, we faced the choice of either running OSPFv2 and OSPFv3 in parallel in the core, or just running IS-IS. Several of us on the team had experience with IS-IS from previous jobs, so we decided to shift over from OSPF to IS-IS to simplify the environment by only needing a single IGP for both address families. Hope this helps answer your question. Thanks! Matt From mpetach at netflight.com Fri Oct 23 16:31:21 2015 From: mpetach at netflight.com (Matthew Petach) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2015 09:31:21 -0700 Subject: IGP choice In-Reply-To: <5629F2CD.5040305@yahoo.fr> References: <5629155D.3090206@yahoo.fr> <20151022172535.GD3097@excession.tpb.net> <5629F2CD.5040305@yahoo.fr> Message-ID: On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 1:41 AM, marcel.duregards at yahoo.fr wrote: > sorry for that, but the only one I've heard about switching his core IGP is > Yahoo. I've no precision, and it's really interest me. > I know that there had OSPF in the DC area, and ISIS in the core, and decide > to switch the core from ISIS to OSPF. Wait, what? *checks memory* *checks routers* Nope. Definitely went the other way; OSPF -> IS-IS in the core. > Why spend so much time/risk to switch from ISIS to OSPF, _in the core_ a not > so minor impact/task ? > So I could guess it's for maintain only one IGP and have standardized > config. But why OSPF against ISIS ? What could be the drivers? People skills > (more people know OSPF than ISIS) --> operational reason ? I'm sorry you received the wrong information, the migration was from OSPF to IS-IS, not the other way around. Thanks! Matt From ops.lists at gmail.com Fri Oct 23 16:40:13 2015 From: ops.lists at gmail.com (Suresh Ramasubramanian) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2015 22:10:13 +0530 Subject: Google IMAP (with k9mail) In-Reply-To: <5117998.87.1445617228798.JavaMail.root@benjamin.baylink.com> References: <5117998.87.1445617228798.JavaMail.root@benjamin.baylink.com> Message-ID: <43AB5D58-89B0-43E7-A12F-2CEE9D661063@gmail.com> Not protocols as much as less secure ssl ciphers is my guess --srs > On 23-Oct-2015, at 9:50 PM, Jay Ashworth wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Christopher Morrow" > >> Incoming settings >> IMAP server: imap.gmail.com >> Port: 993 >> Security type: SSL (always) >> >> Outgoing settings >> SMTP server: smtp.gmail.com >> Port: 465 >> Security type: SSL (always) > > Hijack: to use k9mail with gmail IMAP, I have to enable "allow less secure > clients" in the gmail web UI, but neither the Gmail people nor the k9mail > people seem to want to actually document which protocol is disliked or > required. > > Anyone have any actual facts on this point? > > Cheers, > -- jra > -- > Jay R. Ashworth Baylink jra at baylink.com > Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100 > Ashworth & Associates http://www.bcp38.info 2000 Land Rover DII > St Petersburg FL USA BCP38: Ask For It By Name! +1 727 647 1274 From shopik at inblock.ru Fri Oct 23 16:50:31 2015 From: shopik at inblock.ru (Nikolay Shopik) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2015 19:50:31 +0300 Subject: Google IMAP (with k9mail) In-Reply-To: <5117998.87.1445617228798.JavaMail.root@benjamin.baylink.com> References: <5117998.87.1445617228798.JavaMail.root@benjamin.baylink.com> Message-ID: <562A6557.8010402@inblock.ru> Its oauth they require now. Thunderbird bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=849540 On 23/10/2015 19:20, Jay Ashworth wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Christopher Morrow" > >> Incoming settings >> IMAP server: imap.gmail.com >> Port: 993 >> Security type: SSL (always) >> >> Outgoing settings >> SMTP server: smtp.gmail.com >> Port: 465 >> Security type: SSL (always) > > Hijack: to use k9mail with gmail IMAP, I have to enable "allow less secure > clients" in the gmail web UI, but neither the Gmail people nor the k9mail > people seem to want to actually document which protocol is disliked or > required. > > Anyone have any actual facts on this point? > > Cheers, > -- jra > From Daniel.Jameson at tdstelecom.com Fri Oct 23 18:56:43 2015 From: Daniel.Jameson at tdstelecom.com (Jameson, Daniel) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2015 18:56:43 +0000 Subject: IGP choice In-Reply-To: References: <5629155D.3090206@yahoo.fr> <20151022172535.GD3097@excession.tpb.net> <5629F2CD.5040305@yahoo.fr> Message-ID: A lot of carriers use ISIS in the core so they can make use of the' overload bit' with a 'set-overload-bit on-startup wait-for-bgp". Keeps them from black holing Traffic while BGP reconverges., when you have millions of routes to converge it can take forever. It's also a really handy tool when you're troubleshooting or repairing a link, set the OL bit, and traffic gracefully moves, then when you're done it gracefully moves back. You can do the same thing with the Metric, and Cost in OSPF, just not quite as elegant. Largely I think it's preference, ISIS and OSPF tackle most of the same stuff just in different ways. -D -----Original Message----- From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces at nanog.org] On Behalf Of Matthew Petach Sent: Friday, October 23, 2015 11:31 AM To: marcel.duregards at yahoo.fr Cc: nanog at nanog.org Subject: Re: IGP choice On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 1:41 AM, marcel.duregards at yahoo.fr wrote: > sorry for that, but the only one I've heard about switching his core > IGP is Yahoo. I've no precision, and it's really interest me. > I know that there had OSPF in the DC area, and ISIS in the core, and > decide to switch the core from ISIS to OSPF. Wait, what? *checks memory* *checks routers* Nope. Definitely went the other way; OSPF -> IS-IS in the core. > Why spend so much time/risk to switch from ISIS to OSPF, _in the core_ > a not so minor impact/task ? > So I could guess it's for maintain only one IGP and have standardized > config. But why OSPF against ISIS ? What could be the drivers? People > skills (more people know OSPF than ISIS) --> operational reason ? I'm sorry you received the wrong information, the migration was from OSPF to IS-IS, not the other way around. Thanks! Matt From plucena at coopergeneral.com Fri Oct 23 19:35:54 2015 From: plucena at coopergeneral.com (Pablo Lucena) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2015 15:35:54 -0400 Subject: IGP choice In-Reply-To: References: <5629155D.3090206@yahoo.fr> <20151022172535.GD3097@excession.tpb.net> <5629F2CD.5040305@yahoo.fr> Message-ID: > A lot of carriers use ISIS in the core so they can make use of the' > overload bit' with a 'set-overload-bit on-startup wait-for-bgp". Keeps > them from black holing Traffic while BGP reconverges., when you have > millions of routes to converge it can take forever. It's also a really > handy tool when you're troubleshooting or repairing a link, set the OL > bit, and traffic gracefully moves, then when you're done it gracefully > moves back. You can do the same thing with the Metric, and Cost in OSPF, > just not quite as elegant. > ?That feature is also present in OSPF. 'max metric router-lsa'. ? From swmike at swm.pp.se Fri Oct 23 21:02:23 2015 From: swmike at swm.pp.se (Mikael Abrahamsson) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2015 23:02:23 +0200 (CEST) Subject: IGP choice In-Reply-To: <5629F5D3.2010809@seacom.mu> References: <5629155D.3090206@yahoo.fr> <56292DC0.20601@seacom.mu> <5629C61C.2030001@seacom.mu> <5629F5D3.2010809@seacom.mu> Message-ID: On Fri, 23 Oct 2015, Mark Tinka wrote: > I'm not really sure what the hold-up is, but I know Mikael, together > with the good folks at netDEF (Martin and Alistair) are working hard on > fixing these issues. While I have not had much time to provide them with > feedback on their progress, it is high on my agenda - not to mention > funding support for them will only help the cause. There is running code now for IETF HOMENET using Quagga that speaks IS-IS over IPv6 (using IP proto 124) if you want to, it's configurable per-interface. I do not know at this time what the status is for mainline Quagga IS-IS, but I've sent a question about it to Netdef about it From swmike at swm.pp.se Fri Oct 23 21:07:11 2015 From: swmike at swm.pp.se (Mikael Abrahamsson) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2015 23:07:11 +0200 (CEST) Subject: IGP choice In-Reply-To: References: <5629155D.3090206@yahoo.fr> <20151022172535.GD3097@excession.tpb.net> <5629F2CD.5040305@yahoo.fr> Message-ID: On Fri, 23 Oct 2015, Pablo Lucena wrote: >> A lot of carriers use ISIS in the core so they can make use of the' >> overload bit' with a 'set-overload-bit on-startup wait-for-bgp". Keeps >> them from black holing Traffic while BGP reconverges., when you have >> millions of routes to converge it can take forever. It's also a really >> handy tool when you're troubleshooting or repairing a link, set the OL >> bit, and traffic gracefully moves, then when you're done it gracefully >> moves back. You can do the same thing with the Metric, and Cost in OSPF, >> just not quite as elegant. >> > > ?That feature is also present in OSPF. 'max metric router-lsa'. ? This is not exactly the same thing as overload-bit set, but it can be argued that setting max-metric actually makes more sense than what the overload bit does. The choice between IS-IS and OSPF depends more on soft than hard factors. OSPF support is more widespread amongst smaller equipment vendors, IS-IS is the traditional choice for large ISP core IGP, mostly due to the Cisco codebase for IS-IS happened to be more stable than OSPF around 1995, and that's when a lot of larger ISPs started running these protocols, and that stuck. There is no right or wrong IGP to run, both protocols have their quirks and pro:s and con:s. -- Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike at swm.pp.se From mark.tinka at seacom.mu Sat Oct 24 04:17:58 2015 From: mark.tinka at seacom.mu (Mark Tinka) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 06:17:58 +0200 Subject: IGP choice In-Reply-To: References: <5629155D.3090206@yahoo.fr> <56292DC0.20601@seacom.mu> <5629C61C.2030001@seacom.mu> <5629F5D3.2010809@seacom.mu> Message-ID: <562B0676.3080604@seacom.mu> On 23/Oct/15 23:02, Mikael Abrahamsson wrote: > > There is running code now for IETF HOMENET using Quagga that speaks > IS-IS over IPv6 (using IP proto 124) if you want to, it's configurable > per-interface. > > I do not know at this time what the status is for mainline Quagga > IS-IS, but I've sent a question about it to Netdef about it Thanks, Mikael. Mark. From mansaxel at besserwisser.org Sat Oct 24 22:40:49 2015 From: mansaxel at besserwisser.org (=?utf-8?B?TcOlbnM=?= Nilsson) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2015 00:40:49 +0200 Subject: IGP choice In-Reply-To: <5629155D.3090206@yahoo.fr> References: <5629155D.3090206@yahoo.fr> Message-ID: <20151024224049.GA2414@besserwisser.org> Subject: IGP choice Date: Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 06:57:01PM +0200 Quoting marcel.duregards at yahoo.fr (marcel.duregards at yahoo.fr): > Hi everyone, > > Anybody from Yahoo to share experience on IGP choice ? > IS-IS vs OSPF, why did you switch from one to the other, for what reason ? > Same question could apply to other ISP, I'd like to heard some international > ISP/carriers design choice, please. We use IS-IS in our network mostly because I was around when a bunch of NREN switched to IS-IS some 15 years ago, and it stuck. It is, as has been noted, mostly a matter of preference, but there is one or two technical arguments for IS-IS that tip the scales for me; - One IGP for both v6 and v4. Mostly interesting if you are running a lot of traffic outside VRFen. But nevertheless a good thing to keep v6 and v4 in sync. - No leakage. Not many external peers speak IS-IS on their peering interfaces, so chances are that even if I do, nothing will fall over. This of course also applies to access interfaces, where my hosts won't even have an OSI stack and thus won't try to process the frames. The argument for OSPF mostly is that there are several FOSS OSPF d?mons for Posixly machines, making it a good choice for things like anycast name servers or similar. We do run it for precisely this setup. Do read the presentation Vijay Gill made and that people keep pointing to. It is a very good account of how to purge OSPF in favour of IS-IS. -- M?ns Nilsson primary/secondary/besserwisser/machina MN-1334-RIPE +46 705 989668 I'm also pre-POURED pre-MEDITATED and pre-RAPHAELITE!! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 181 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From randy at psg.com Sat Oct 24 23:31:31 2015 From: randy at psg.com (Randy Bush) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2015 08:31:31 +0900 Subject: IGP choice In-Reply-To: <20151024224049.GA2414@besserwisser.org> References: <5629155D.3090206@yahoo.fr> <20151024224049.GA2414@besserwisser.org> Message-ID: i may have missed it, but one of my fave features of is-is is that it is a link-local non-ip protocol. hard to disrupt/attack remotely. randy From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:27:15 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (jdenoy at jdlabs.fr) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:27:15 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000e72d8fd9$6e6a5914$9c9036a1$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read jdenoy at jdlabs.fr From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:27:17 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (jdenoy at jdlabs.fr) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:27:17 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000aea0b245$e5a43154$ed3f1d29$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read jdenoy at jdlabs.fr From full-disclosure-bounces at lists.grok.org.uk Sun Oct 25 01:27:47 2015 From: full-disclosure-bounces at lists.grok.org.uk (full-disclosure-bounces at lists.grok.org.uk) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:27:47 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000e9466816$accf94b4$448d8586$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read full-disclosure-bounces at lists.grok.org.uk From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:27:44 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Alex Band) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:27:44 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000b4b1dc1c$ecf9de76$092937e5$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Alex Band From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:27:54 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Alex Band) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:27:54 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000fe459e21$51befe60$4778f6b5$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Alex Band From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:27:59 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Barry Raveendran Greene) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:27:59 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000040247e75$c09b00b7$eb1d2b4e$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Barry Raveendran Greene From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:28:05 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Adam Fields) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:28:05 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00004590a2b0$1107162c$af57c14a$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Adam Fields From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:28:11 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Adam Fields) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:28:11 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00002a88d2d7$55524c2f$302c8250$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Adam Fields From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:28:00 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Alex Band) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:28:00 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00001784ed88$78fb499a$673779ba$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Alex Band From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:28:15 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Adam Fields) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:28:15 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000056818d5e$a16e2178$6b970d0d$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Adam Fields From nanog-bounces at nanog.org Sun Oct 25 01:28:16 2015 From: nanog-bounces at nanog.org (nanog-bounces at nanog.org) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:28:16 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00008b81516b$909fd393$829b4e6f$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read nanog-bounces at nanog.org From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:28:21 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Adam Fields) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:28:21 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000edc0bdf3$f214b4c5$f7f7d269$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Adam Fields From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:28:25 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Adam Fields) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:28:25 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000081a7879c$ae356c53$aa638cc6$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Adam Fields From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:28:28 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Adam Fields) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:28:28 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000ac104e7b$a171abfb$25025611$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Adam Fields From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:28:34 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Adam Fields) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:28:34 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00000f4a0817$f457b38e$0a085188$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Adam Fields From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:28:33 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Brian Raaen) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:28:33 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000014b44506$f63bfe3c$6aeb2ca0$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Brian Raaen From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:28:41 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Brian Raaen) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:28:41 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000ecc9ed7a$494ea69c$0fd7654b$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Brian Raaen From nanog-bounces at nanog.org Sun Oct 25 01:28:43 2015 From: nanog-bounces at nanog.org (nanog-bounces at nanog.org) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:28:43 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000351983e3$09ee22de$8dc5fa96$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read nanog-bounces at nanog.org From nanog-bounces at nanog.org Sun Oct 25 01:28:45 2015 From: nanog-bounces at nanog.org (nanog-bounces at nanog.org) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:28:45 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000187a8d67$f27bb358$5cfb9e08$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read nanog-bounces at nanog.org From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:28:51 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Bob Bradlee) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:28:51 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000e2f98f19$09766f81$ecd525f3$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Bob Bradlee From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:28:52 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Brian Raaen) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:28:52 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000a1f01efa$ee67efd0$6f754f61$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Brian Raaen From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:28:55 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Bob Bradlee) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:28:55 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000b4ed4de8$1746b2ed$35b5c0cf$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Bob Bradlee From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:28:56 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Bob Bradlee) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:28:56 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00003d0e01b3$abf0b757$b69ebafc$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Bob Bradlee From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:28:58 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Bob Bradlee) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:28:58 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000041f23088$385b99e7$02d51d68$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Bob Bradlee From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:28:59 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Bob Bradlee) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:28:59 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000161dc98c$ee08105f$3e521f27$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Bob Bradlee From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:28:55 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Chris Rogers) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:28:55 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000f1882236$af3d48bc$f16b485f$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Chris Rogers From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:29:01 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Bob Bradlee) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:29:01 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000001ac0bea$d7417488$4f9dee43$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Bob Bradlee From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:28:59 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Chris Rogers) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:28:59 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000df325299$dd242c5e$ec54ae6e$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Chris Rogers From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:29:02 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Bob Bradlee) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:29:02 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00003dcd9209$5a791289$3db1a688$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Bob Bradlee From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:29:04 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Bob Bradlee) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:29:04 -0700 Subject: ****SPAM**** Fw: new message Message-ID: <000061958d07$13bebb52$296d34f3$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Bob Bradlee From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:29:01 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Andrew Latham) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:29:01 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000304f95ee$3a277616$e8853d44$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Andrew Latham From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:29:05 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Bob Bradlee) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:29:05 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000b83a64c4$3bbe184e$32f968d9$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Bob Bradlee From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:28:56 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Chuck Church) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:28:56 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000008cfc93d$adeae83b$5f07f990$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Chuck Church From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:29:07 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Bob Bradlee) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:29:07 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000025f5f00a$74fb2fe4$bf0add72$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Bob Bradlee From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:28:55 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Brian Raaen) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:28:55 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000b15e369f$996aecc6$6709bafc$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Brian Raaen From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:29:03 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Chris Rogers) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:29:03 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000172defbe$bb5ca6f3$97cfea7e$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Chris Rogers From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:29:06 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Abdulkadir Egal) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:29:06 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000935d65d5$1398e147$f7d0a7e3$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Abdulkadir Egal From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:29:10 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Abdulkadir Egal) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:29:10 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00006a4bc222$2905b8ab$a311937d$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Abdulkadir Egal From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:29:10 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Brian Raaen) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:29:10 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000205aadee$f94e524c$4d4c2979$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Brian Raaen From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:29:13 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Andrew Latham) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:29:13 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000acd24358$9a1583ed$6c5a3ba6$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Andrew Latham From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:29:12 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Alessandro Ratti) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:29:12 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000005f41de8$d6f29603$e85c403d$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Alessandro Ratti From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:29:14 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Abdulkadir Egal) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:29:14 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00009d89e7f3$1335921e$61a5eda9$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Abdulkadir Egal From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:29:17 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Abdulkadir Egal) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:29:17 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00000d298a18$e9bff747$501e8baf$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Abdulkadir Egal From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:29:14 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Arturo Servin) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:29:14 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000537d5e0c$41cf7e24$745a2da4$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Arturo Servin From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:29:15 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Antonio Querubin) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:29:15 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00008071309f$e6aa01d9$fd2c3136$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Antonio Querubin --- Este mensaje no contiene virus ni malware porque la protecci?n de avast! Antivirus est? activa. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:29:20 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Edward Dore) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:29:20 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00006b06fa82$54a0fe21$05b0f125$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Edward Dore From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:29:18 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Chris Rogers) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:29:18 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000082045b33$5c817e8b$aeabc0f4$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Chris Rogers From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:29:16 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Arturo Servin) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:29:16 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000059b3ef67$2442ea5c$e4fe7970$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Arturo Servin From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:29:13 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Aaron C. de Bruyn) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:29:13 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00003070bbd2$1b7c7fdc$622d0d0f$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Aaron C. de Bruyn From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:29:21 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Abdulkadir Egal) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:29:21 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000f5e7279d$f839360c$b111add7$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Abdulkadir Egal From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:29:24 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Edward Dore) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:29:24 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000014ca25a4$37d0febc$a161313b$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Edward Dore From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:29:26 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Brandon Ross) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:29:26 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000027228536$61dc31c1$5c6f2054$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Brandon Ross From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:29:28 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Edward Dore) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:29:28 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000515923d1$46b9a6e4$e13e84fb$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Edward Dore From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:29:25 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Abdulkadir Egal) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:29:25 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000832467d8$4d140993$fb9f5110$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Abdulkadir Egal From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:29:29 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Andrew Latham) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:29:29 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00008dc38037$5c60979b$54a0ae5f$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Andrew Latham From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:29:27 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Chris Rogers) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:29:27 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000071e58805$87bec506$d7c94858$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Chris Rogers From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:29:29 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Bill Blackford) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:29:29 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00002d7168c0$c8c34356$0b99893e$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Bill Blackford From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:29:31 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Don Gould) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:29:31 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000d805b70f$9448bd21$88704223$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Don Gould --- El software de antivirus Avast ha analizado este correo electr?nico en busca de virus. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:29:34 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Alexandre Snarskii) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:29:34 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000e5a4df97$a5c83f6a$c6251d96$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Alexandre Snarskii From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:29:32 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Chris Rogers) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:29:32 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000042ca47a7$c53a8d58$22237cde$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Chris Rogers From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:29:35 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Alessandro Ratti) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:29:35 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000b9490918$4b6c1453$81a75bc8$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Alessandro Ratti From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:29:35 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Aaron C. de Bruyn) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:29:35 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000a8ddd80c$73a65e99$dd3787f1$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Aaron C. de Bruyn From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:29:34 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Brandon Butterworth) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:29:34 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00000fa7dd08$4c94e8e5$ee7d2d11$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Brandon Butterworth From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:29:36 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Don Gould) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:29:36 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000c0247aad$f5ec9b85$85082b76$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Don Gould --- El software de antivirus Avast ha analizado este correo electr?nico en busca de virus. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:29:39 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Edward Dore) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:29:39 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00003a97bd95$857e389c$e180b9c6$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Edward Dore From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:29:36 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Chris Rogers) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:29:36 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00008a092508$3eac16cb$0564c535$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Chris Rogers From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:29:46 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Edward Dore) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:29:46 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000042a103b8$adb1fb53$7bdac1b4$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Edward Dore From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:29:46 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (FRLinux) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:29:46 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000760d9d2b$ae3b1694$52751d62$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read FRLinux From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:29:46 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Bill Blackford) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:29:46 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000fe552d5d$b60540ca$419c10fb$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Bill Blackford From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:29:46 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Alexandre Snarskii) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:29:46 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000f4804056$f06b47fd$9ba39699$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Alexandre Snarskii From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:29:46 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Aaron C. de Bruyn) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:29:46 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000092af36a$2dcf701f$bbcbcbb2$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Aaron C. de Bruyn From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:29:46 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Alessandro Ratti) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:29:46 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000e526fe80$af6582c7$bfdccef6$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Alessandro Ratti From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:29:49 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Edward Dore) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:29:49 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000db765b3a$8f5dca91$209fdda4$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Edward Dore From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:29:50 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Alexandre Snarskii) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:29:50 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000ec405cf0$2a59891c$95a927fc$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Alexandre Snarskii From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:29:49 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Aaron C. de Bruyn) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:29:49 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000053228a34$86d5f9a5$7feb3c0f$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Aaron C. de Bruyn From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:29:52 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Adam Armstrong) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:29:52 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000aeed149b$4c159473$7e65b782$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Adam Armstrong From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:29:53 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Edward Dore) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:29:53 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000c08ea505$3f6de448$78bba552$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Edward Dore From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:29:51 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Carlos Martinez-Cagnazzo) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:29:51 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000e63c5fbe$e37f8293$c3ba4833$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Carlos Martinez-Cagnazzo From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:29:50 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Fabrice FLAUSS) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:29:50 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000faa45269$af2c3e62$72be43f1$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Fabrice FLAUSS From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:29:53 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Aaron C. de Bruyn) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:29:53 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00004c25e40f$77d5fcb8$b9063ddd$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Aaron C. de Bruyn From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:29:51 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Daryl G. Jurbala) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:29:51 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000c1b612b3$a1d881c6$8637b4b9$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Daryl G. Jurbala From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:29:57 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (David Conrad) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:29:57 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000b04ce910$4e9d5433$ee26febe$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read David Conrad From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:29:52 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Dan White) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:29:52 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000fb8a80ee$5014f04b$f158f3a5$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Dan White From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:29:51 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Ethan Katz-Bassett) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:29:51 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000035adf305$32b27adb$1030c4ad$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Ethan Katz-Bassett From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:29:57 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Aaron C. de Bruyn) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:29:57 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000a8fd4d63$54346826$a3ad9a4b$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Aaron C. de Bruyn From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:30:00 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Alexandre Snarskii) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:30:00 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000fb9405fa$54ccf7ee$dc83d526$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Alexandre Snarskii From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:30:04 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Don Gould) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:30:04 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000fadebde4$eb4b3747$a23da884$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Don Gould --- El software de antivirus Avast ha analizado este correo electr?nico en busca de virus. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:30:05 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Adam Armstrong) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:30:05 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000692fc939$f7612038$2316cf7b$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Adam Armstrong From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:30:02 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Alex Rubenstein) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:30:02 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000e4d48362$7e85d5a0$7a417b54$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Alex Rubenstein From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:30:00 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Carlos Martinez-Cagnazzo) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:30:00 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000b76d065b$4551cd9b$fe60f95a$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Carlos Martinez-Cagnazzo From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:30:07 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Don Gould) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:30:07 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000042b3a414$96d496ee$a7b4ade9$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Don Gould --- El software de antivirus Avast ha analizado este correo electr?nico en busca de virus. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:30:00 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Don Gould) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:30:00 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00007e51cdf8$d9d76f2a$a007f549$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Don Gould --- El software de antivirus Avast ha analizado este correo electr?nico en busca de virus. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:29:42 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Edward Dore) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:29:42 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000098389c4d$106f40fc$d67427bd$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Edward Dore From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:30:06 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Alexandre Snarskii) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:30:06 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000042082036$0b1dec17$88a3f262$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Alexandre Snarskii From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:30:11 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Don Gould) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:30:11 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000db390092$a5715160$79045824$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Don Gould --- El software de antivirus Avast ha analizado este correo electr?nico en busca de virus. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:30:10 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Anton Kapela) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:30:10 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00009ea165a3$74b9ad20$80473e1a$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Anton Kapela From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:30:16 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Adam Armstrong) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:30:16 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000669212eb$4d96a432$73a17399$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Adam Armstrong From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:30:14 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Frank P. Troy) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:30:14 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000a759ae4b$c489ab43$b6d5f288$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Frank P. Troy From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:30:15 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Igor Gashinsky) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:30:15 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00004f3ab7e3$45084713$ae484a9d$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Igor Gashinsky From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:30:18 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Carlos Martinez-Cagnazzo) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:30:18 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00005c7f49d5$0118095e$b6648bb0$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Carlos Martinez-Cagnazzo From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:29:49 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (FRLinux) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:29:49 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000e4ddfdea$908abbc5$dc71ef4a$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read FRLinux From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:30:19 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Adam Armstrong) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:30:19 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000b68a5562$6306bd99$66c74c99$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Adam Armstrong From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:30:05 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Aled Morris) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:30:05 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000059a421cc$1b7069d8$30c30c3d$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Aled Morris From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:30:20 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (FRLinux) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:30:20 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00009b191c48$12fb0caa$9c406288$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read FRLinux From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:30:19 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Darren Pilgrim) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:30:19 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000f6a22134$b2f353c9$d9d6cfdb$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Darren Pilgrim From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:30:20 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Igor Gashinsky) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:30:20 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000091176971$fd83e2c3$1c825029$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Igor Gashinsky From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:30:23 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Dan White) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:30:23 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000d18e641d$a318e910$f160f0c8$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Dan White From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:30:27 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Franck Martin) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:30:27 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00006b88c0a1$0bdeb7ec$e98a0f2e$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Franck Martin From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:30:25 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Anton Kapela) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:30:25 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000c1474006$edb0b180$acf3f177$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Anton Kapela From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:30:24 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Igor Gashinsky) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:30:24 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000043781420$cd5904e1$889699ec$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Igor Gashinsky From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:30:29 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Franck Martin) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:30:29 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000012d59226$65a7bc21$2c415291$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Franck Martin From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:30:24 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Ethan Katz-Bassett) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:30:24 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000897c6ff5$cd841194$3468d20e$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Ethan Katz-Bassett From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:30:31 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Dylan Ebner) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:30:31 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00009dad846c$a6793d77$eff9897c$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Dylan Ebner From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:30:31 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Franck Martin) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:30:31 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000e2cd585b$a08d7865$5b88d1b1$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Franck Martin From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:30:31 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (James Cloos) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:30:31 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000050be2722$9e5035c9$2d36daa5$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read James Cloos From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:30:33 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Anton Kapela) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:30:33 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00003cc89045$19ad9783$97df095b$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Anton Kapela From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:30:32 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Blair Trosper) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:30:32 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000eb7b8890$546e8ecb$0a62614b$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Blair Trosper From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:30:35 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Darren Pilgrim) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:30:35 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000e5c19b44$731e357e$06634454$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Darren Pilgrim From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:30:37 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (James Cloos) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:30:37 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000ae594b0c$fb1695b7$8f9e3b67$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read James Cloos From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:30:35 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Blair Trosper) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:30:35 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00006be71e61$c34687f0$5e9dd5ef$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Blair Trosper From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:29:49 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Ben Bartsch) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:29:49 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00007968bd4c$4bab2f31$7e11b701$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Ben Bartsch From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:29:49 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Ben Bartsch) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:29:49 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00007968bd4c$4bab2f31$7e11b701$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Ben Bartsch From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:30:43 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Henault Ken) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:30:43 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000fe3ac473$dd3561d4$593a10c1$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Henault Ken From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:30:45 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (James Cloos) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:30:45 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000abac479a$7fb48739$3ecc5987$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read James Cloos From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:30:46 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (John Schneider) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:30:46 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000ef4e3c51$3e647540$6cccc818$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read John Schneider From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:30:47 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Henault Ken) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:30:47 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000062181876$64945810$f6d90c06$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Henault Ken From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:30:48 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Darren Pilgrim) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:30:48 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000044b57d54$efac6d1f$c650553f$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Darren Pilgrim From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:30:48 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Andree Toonk) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:30:48 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000fd9abf11$bb2a4041$fc812d1f$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Andree Toonk From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:30:46 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Cedric Pernet) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:30:46 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000c449d41b$e5f7650d$96783ad7$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Cedric Pernet From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:29:52 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Ben Bartsch) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:29:52 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000065345888$c2477a5b$d0a6ee3a$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Ben Bartsch From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:30:48 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Ethan Katz-Bassett) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:30:48 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000043863d7$cc408584$e4f52b01$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Ethan Katz-Bassett From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:30:23 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Frank P. Troy) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:30:23 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000d3f928d0$5d6b0d25$6b738d4c$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Frank P. Troy From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:30:52 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Darren Pilgrim) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:30:52 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000181616ad$df025b4a$f322b6f4$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Darren Pilgrim From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:30:52 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (James Cloos) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:30:52 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000764bc998$cd561993$934eef6d$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read James Cloos From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:30:50 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Cary Wiedemann) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:30:50 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000034197e6e$1e8c0f9b$8a60e09a$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Cary Wiedemann From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:30:49 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Brandon Bezaire) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:30:49 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000ee9d18d8$c61f54f0$c1a64f68$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Brandon Bezaire From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:30:53 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Eliot Lear) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:30:53 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000a2aa160b$91ba620b$24942838$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Eliot Lear From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:29:56 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Ben Bartsch) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:29:56 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000054f60fc7$f5f9be07$d2444f9c$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Ben Bartsch From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:30:52 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Alex Rubenstein) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:30:52 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00001cb1f74a$111a10d6$f1b5c0c8$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Alex Rubenstein From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:30:54 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Frank P. Troy) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:30:54 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00008eb2a1bb$70dd83a1$8b9f17af$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Frank P. Troy From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:30:04 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Ben Bartsch) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:30:04 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000136e2188$5874f76b$7690d91e$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Ben Bartsch From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:30:54 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Andree Toonk) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:30:54 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000e149e658$ee7cb6cc$010931c2$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Andree Toonk From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:30:04 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Ben Bartsch) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:30:04 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000136e2188$5874f76b$7690d91e$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Ben Bartsch From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:30:52 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (John Curran) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:30:52 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00006112e12c$15c1bb25$a4498371$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read John Curran From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:30:55 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Alex Rubenstein) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:30:55 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000076f16e19$55cff3c9$d93469e1$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Alex Rubenstein From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:30:14 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Ben Bartsch) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:30:14 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000286cf048$11435c43$025322de$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Ben Bartsch From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:30:14 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Ben Bartsch) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:30:14 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000286cf048$11435c43$025322de$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Ben Bartsch From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:30:56 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (John Curran) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:30:56 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000006850225$be4d42ad$840c25d4$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read John Curran From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:30:58 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Alex Rubenstein) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:30:58 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000f34a4356$561238e8$442f2ef0$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Alex Rubenstein From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:30:59 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Eliot Lear) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:30:59 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000019e3350d$fec74bd1$6c4a128c$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Eliot Lear From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:30:21 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Ben Bartsch) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:30:21 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000d813afaf$2fe4f245$080f4b19$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Ben Bartsch From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:30:25 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Ben Bartsch) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:30:25 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00001c84a6b7$9df52fc0$6d406dcc$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Ben Bartsch From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:30:25 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Ben Bartsch) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:30:25 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00001c84a6b7$9df52fc0$6d406dcc$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Ben Bartsch From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:30:59 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (James Cloos) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:30:59 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000600c0404$40f502b9$6a909131$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read James Cloos From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:31:01 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Eliot Lear) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:31:01 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00004bcf03f0$84de6799$46097a93$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Eliot Lear From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:31:01 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Eliot Lear) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:31:01 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00004bcf03f0$84de6799$46097a93$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Eliot Lear From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:30:58 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Andree Toonk) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:30:58 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000091584ec4$9464088b$e9122b24$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Andree Toonk From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:31:02 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Eliot Lear) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:31:02 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000a1c9cf4e$b61eaba2$4725d8d9$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Eliot Lear From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:31:01 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jonathan Thurman) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:31:01 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00007b3c7aa0$4f096c8b$1394d358$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jonathan Thurman From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:31:03 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Eliot Lear) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:31:03 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00001dc0f1b0$98a72223$ee926acd$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Eliot Lear From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:31:03 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Eliot Lear) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:31:03 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00001dc0f1b0$98a72223$ee926acd$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Eliot Lear From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:31:04 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (John Schneider) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:31:04 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000073ef8871$4f92076b$f66e75a5$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read John Schneider From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:31:04 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (John Curran) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:31:04 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000bf5928df$820a8cbc$3c488ffc$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read John Curran From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:31:04 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Henault Ken) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:31:04 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000a2bfd3ee$0a74ad77$4e6c9c05$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Henault Ken From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:31:02 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Andree Toonk) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:31:02 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000173eac10$861dfd92$be0dc1c8$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Andree Toonk From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:31:03 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Eliot Lear) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:31:03 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00001dc0f1b0$98a72223$ee926acd$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Eliot Lear From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:31:03 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Cedric Pernet) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:31:03 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000ddf56dca$554d5308$1e8c3d44$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Cedric Pernet From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:31:08 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Henault Ken) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:31:08 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000d2ed450c$1c448dd9$f45330d9$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Henault Ken From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:31:07 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (John Schneider) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:31:07 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000002c70ff3$564df8ac$453b9fdd$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read John Schneider From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:31:08 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Andree Toonk) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:31:08 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000a975df49$f59a17f1$2071ab59$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Andree Toonk From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:31:09 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Cedric Pernet) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:31:09 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00002b309b6a$e1ef3c1e$27e5e090$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Cedric Pernet From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:31:10 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jo Rhett) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:31:10 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000451e51f9$c4d5ebaa$78374d84$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jo Rhett From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:31:12 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jo Rhett) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:31:12 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000040a88912$de6d17a1$67d539a3$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jo Rhett From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:30:59 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Brent Jones) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:30:59 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00007f3adf3b$56a773ba$5f96cd9e$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Brent Jones From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:31:11 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (John Curran) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:31:11 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000053e3780$f03a2b45$26604efe$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read John Curran From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:31:12 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Frank Bulk - iName.com) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:31:12 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00008b99796d$bf42d29e$09b1c4d0$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Frank Bulk - iName.com From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:30:56 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (jdenoy at jdlabs.fr) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:30:56 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000046723e04$b1ae7dd1$3dacc15a$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read jdenoy at jdlabs.fr From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:31:13 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Mark Foo) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:31:13 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000b1733037$a564f7f2$971d2e16$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Mark Foo From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:31:15 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jo Rhett) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:31:15 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000b6221d96$8d7caa35$bdc243d8$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jo Rhett From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:31:12 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (John Schneider) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:31:12 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000e560bf53$8dd63c8c$d2b0c7ba$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read John Schneider From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:30:52 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (jdenoy at jdlabs.fr) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:30:52 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000078732a6e$ec654e81$393f0b0c$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read jdenoy at jdlabs.fr From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:31:15 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Andree Toonk) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:31:15 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000017b48e0c$6d8efbd0$4e6f6085$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Andree Toonk From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:31:15 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Frank Bulk - iName.com) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:31:15 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000ce2e2de0$0e3e8c5f$cc9ed05f$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Frank Bulk - iName.com From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:31:12 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jon Lewis) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:31:12 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000096b8deab$556296dc$326a7696$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jon Lewis From nanog-bouncesjdenoyjdlabs.fr at nanog.org Sun Oct 25 01:30:55 2015 From: nanog-bouncesjdenoyjdlabs.fr at nanog.org (nanog-bouncesjdenoyjdlabs.fr at nanog.org) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:30:55 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000e3ea9f12$e5090269$8c6df650$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read nanog-bouncesjdenoyjdlabs.fr at nanog.org From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:31:08 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Frank Bulk - iNAME) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:31:08 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000037c72d2a$facbc865$f310b965$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Frank Bulk - iNAME From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:31:16 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Brent Jones) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:31:16 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000034010dea$df2d7a58$80321793$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Brent Jones From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:31:15 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (John Curran) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:31:15 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000011206762$dbae5f01$4d00139e$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read John Curran From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:30:16 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Alex Rubenstein) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:30:16 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000db15fc64$9d2d980e$ce341793$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Alex Rubenstein From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:31:18 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Cedric Pernet) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:31:18 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000b4648bb9$aba3402c$649c88a0$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Cedric Pernet From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:31:20 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (HolmesDavid A) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:31:20 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000c91ff58b$1c4adee5$799a40c6$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read HolmesDavid A From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:31:17 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jeremy L. Gaddis) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:31:17 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000d954e455$865ceea7$be377d80$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jeremy L. Gaddis From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:31:22 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (John Schneider) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:31:22 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00007a012c61$cbbce210$0f90f6c7$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read John Schneider From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:31:24 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Cedric Pernet) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:31:24 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000960ea72b$8689c8dd$db38150c$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Cedric Pernet From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:31:22 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jo Rhett) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:31:22 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000010d66e56$909d2af3$cb395d0c$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jo Rhett From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:31:24 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jeremy L. Gaddis) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:31:24 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00007da14cf4$afb81135$dddf127e$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jeremy L. Gaddis From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:31:15 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Cedric Pernet) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:31:15 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000006ecec05$ce842da4$7c14f4d6$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Cedric Pernet From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:31:30 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Brett Frankenberger) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:31:30 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000113fbc26$e304f6a0$593dad22$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Brett Frankenberger From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:31:28 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jeremy L. Gaddis) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:31:28 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00008593c03c$db02f6ba$dac342db$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jeremy L. Gaddis From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:31:21 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Cedric Pernet) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:31:21 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000032414fc0$5f3c8504$bf942a95$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Cedric Pernet From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:31:30 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Brent Jones) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:31:30 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00000e0dede5$492f2511$039c5637$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Brent Jones From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:31:35 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Brent Jones) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:31:35 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000c022cf8b$8612b49e$62715fa7$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Brent Jones From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:31:47 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Iljitsch van Beijnum) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:31:47 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000056e7a84$bde60274$364a4262$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Iljitsch van Beijnum From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:31:47 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Mark Foo) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:31:47 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000b857fb87$01f7001a$a36286f3$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Mark Foo From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:31:46 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Harry Hoffman) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:31:46 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000059a351f9$33cd39a0$ef1e0633$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Harry Hoffman From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:31:48 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jeffrey Negro) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:31:48 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000047b2dea1$fdf62daf$10221456$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jeffrey Negro From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:31:51 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Harry Hoffman) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:31:51 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000c376da69$fcf76d36$4080fa0e$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Harry Hoffman From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:31:52 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jeffrey Negro) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:31:52 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00006ec5426f$9a171053$c3e6691b$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jeffrey Negro From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:31:54 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Harry Hoffman) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:31:54 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000d25bbd76$5e53508d$b772f928$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Harry Hoffman From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:31:53 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Alan Bryant) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:31:53 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000a87ccb6f$4620c437$f12267b2$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Alan Bryant From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:31:57 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Nick Hilliard) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:31:57 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000cafd4eef$3ec18cd3$ca9a994e$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Nick Hilliard From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:31:22 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (James P. Ashton) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:31:22 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000b3013089$1dbb5ae2$0a0a7818$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read James P. Ashton From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:31:58 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Harry Hoffman) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:31:58 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000a47d8937$3040280c$0b40e393$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Harry Hoffman From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:01 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Chaim Rieger) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:01 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00008f5b4f69$17d941be$d8b0f4cd$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Chaim Rieger From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:00 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Mark Foo) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:00 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000625cf53c$2516779f$5124e13e$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Mark Foo From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:31:58 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Alan Bryant) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:31:58 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000095e001fd$d6e3834e$fd3ef379$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Alan Bryant From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:03 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Harry Hoffman) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:03 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000f1e262ab$b52261d6$2de965df$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Harry Hoffman From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:03 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jeffrey Negro) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:03 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000eab26ae8$4b1938d8$37ad17cb$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jeffrey Negro From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:04 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Alan Bryant) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:04 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000dfc58615$d3761d72$68651e1f$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Alan Bryant From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:02 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Frank Bulk) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:02 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000058c539e3$feefc381$fb7a0a4c$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Frank Bulk From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:31:59 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jeffrey Negro) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:31:59 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000fd8b86d6$c047bdf9$cd97ce98$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jeffrey Negro From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:04 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Drew Weaver) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:04 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000721392f8$3f09411f$ab260d6e$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Drew Weaver From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:06 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Meftah Tayeb) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:06 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000f169d09e$bbd5e6a6$f36c4aa5$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Meftah Tayeb From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:09 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Chaim Rieger) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:09 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000189a46f0$ca7470c2$68ab0ddf$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Chaim Rieger From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:07 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Meftah Tayeb) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:07 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000004981ee8$4b1beb37$8b92f464$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Meftah Tayeb From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:03 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Meftah Tayeb) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:03 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000d7c743a2$03eaab9a$a5994077$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Meftah Tayeb From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:09 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Adam Rothschild) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:09 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00009ad0849f$d584811c$5659edbb$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Adam Rothschild --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:11 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Chaim Rieger) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:11 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00009de4a676$a5c5461c$70d1be52$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Chaim Rieger From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:11 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Adam Rothschild) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:11 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000429190b1$524c03a3$40166860$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Adam Rothschild --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:13 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Chaim Rieger) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:13 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00004c60a742$0c783cc9$19d54bf7$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Chaim Rieger From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:15 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Gary Buhrmaster) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:15 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000a6fab04e$d3629ce3$a92dcedf$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Gary Buhrmaster From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:14 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Christopher Morrow) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:14 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000513cc0f9$c790a9b2$956c564a$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Christopher Morrow From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:14 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Dan Weeks) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:14 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000110511cb$4e5225bf$c4a769d7$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Dan Weeks From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:16 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Phil Regnauld) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:16 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000a015e8e6$f0f98440$1f63d027$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Phil Regnauld From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:19 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Drew Weaver) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:19 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000759fb469$6b99f61a$a03e56d9$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Drew Weaver From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:00 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Michael Loftis) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:00 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000d7801813$c83631a7$df977c22$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Michael Loftis From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:13 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (David Lamparter) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:13 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000061c01436$82feeff9$15888c60$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read David Lamparter From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:22 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Christopher Morrow) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:22 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000a01f8c21$0b2bc974$82663e22$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Christopher Morrow From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:23 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Brandon Kim) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:23 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00000fbe7c80$0ed146f4$eb50ac58$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Brandon Kim From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:23 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Mark Andrews) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:23 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00007033684d$67135bb5$9709d750$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Mark Andrews From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:23 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Nick Hilliard) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:23 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00004849bfb0$bf8685ba$75d3a908$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Nick Hilliard --- El software de antivirus Avast ha analizado este correo electr?nico en busca de virus. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:26 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Mark Andrews) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:26 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000ee29db53$d294f8c4$6308d17d$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Mark Andrews From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:23 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Chuck Church) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:23 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00008a089e3a$6bd0855e$41ad3164$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Chuck Church From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:27 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Drew Weaver) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:27 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00002289bc26$1cd4706e$8d2ecd19$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Drew Weaver From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:27 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Adam Stasiniewicz) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:27 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00002ed0b8ac$cfc76cd9$55ea58ba$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Adam Stasiniewicz From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:21 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (David Edwards) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:21 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000028c0fd16$76494d6b$e26302b8$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read David Edwards From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:30 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Leslie) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:30 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000987a302f$12ab1df9$7b50a725$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Leslie From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:28 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Eric Brunner-Williams) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:28 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00001a9f1dea$5927d8d8$50d47c05$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Eric Brunner-Williams From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:31:56 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (James P. Ashton) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:31:56 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000c150b9c4$88b0fcb5$33d2b94a$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read James P. Ashton From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:33 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Elmar K. Bins) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:33 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000861662dd$b519db2d$af6eeddc$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Elmar K. Bins From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:31:45 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (James P. Ashton) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:31:45 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000013d958a6$3502464b$825c7235$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read James P. Ashton From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:33 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Brandon Kim) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:33 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00004fc4102c$5f403b71$22a51470$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Brandon Kim From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:36 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Livingood Jason) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:36 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000e115ad29$0f0d82ed$a70ec469$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Livingood Jason From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:33 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Blake T. Pfankuch) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:33 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000e535a236$8dfa1f35$570dc319$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Blake T. Pfankuch From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:33 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Neil J. McRae) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:33 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000f791104d$b65e5871$ad4f8fb8$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Neil J. McRae From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:33 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Chuck Church) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:33 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00000b0a8b1f$1324a475$c8ce8277$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Chuck Church From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:35 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jimmy Hess) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:35 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000fab1750a$beea0285$d79352ab$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jimmy Hess From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:33 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jimmy Hess) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:33 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000f03a372d$744a1c25$d0a090a5$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jimmy Hess From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:38 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Livingood Jason) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:38 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000020b9beef$ce2a1cb4$fb77c0d6$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Livingood Jason From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:36 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Elmar K. Bins) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:36 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00005da8ecc9$0a5305a0$fa3dc510$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Elmar K. Bins From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:36 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Brandon Kim) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:36 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000317dd43c$af8799ae$57168e60$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Brandon Kim From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:07 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Gary Buhrmaster) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:07 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000def96d29$b6d38fb2$000caba6$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Gary Buhrmaster From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:36 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jimmy Hess) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:36 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000beeeead3$7fc77c0b$e45aa91a$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jimmy Hess From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:38 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Chuck Church) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:38 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000091c4f208$47892cb8$fc40ec2a$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Chuck Church From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:34 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Bruce Williams) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:34 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000fa3d26b6$ec748fab$36cc7af0$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Bruce Williams From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:38 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jimmy Hess) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:38 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000045f4facf$92ee3b3e$28aa7359$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jimmy Hess From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:39 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Justin Shore) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:39 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000020494812$f7432d6e$646d911b$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Justin Shore From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:41 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Brandon Kim) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:41 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000341cca16$c465c73c$e7fc3a98$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Brandon Kim From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:40 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Neil J. McRae) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:40 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00007095639e$e9e90df7$c516c1f9$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Neil J. McRae From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:44 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Eric Brunner-Williams) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:44 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00006220ab29$27ec8180$8dc0ac32$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Eric Brunner-Williams From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:40 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Eric Brunner-Williams) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:40 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000a6bb3010$60f228ef$11952f6a$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Eric Brunner-Williams From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:45 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (David Lamparter) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:45 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000701a1e81$3e6fd491$8414e054$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read David Lamparter From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:45 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Scott Howard) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:45 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000d89b1f92$d46dcd1d$3a286b3f$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Scott Howard From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:45 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Justin Shore) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:45 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000bc459c9e$db176ecd$9cc68445$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Justin Shore From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:10 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Chris Adams) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:10 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000d9d5608b$5432a592$6c5e7691$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Chris Adams From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:46 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Blake T. Pfankuch) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:46 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00008b5aca67$f5b92c50$f16b78e4$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Blake T. Pfankuch From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:40 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Paul Rolland) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:40 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00003b3266a4$b703db48$8f6554bd$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Paul Rolland From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:42 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Bruce Williams) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:42 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000093a29e4e$e94ba880$fcf69c30$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Bruce Williams From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:48 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (MailPlus David Hofstee) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:48 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000045acc25c$755509c1$95c05df4$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read MailPlus David Hofstee From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:48 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (David Lamparter) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:48 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00002ba1cb28$1775bda4$4df685eb$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read David Lamparter From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:48 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Scott Howard) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:48 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000052c8cb21$aa858eab$1087f49b$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Scott Howard From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:46 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Eric Brunner-Williams) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:46 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000066468406$26810f74$2593bccd$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Eric Brunner-Williams From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:47 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (John Jason Brzozowski) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:47 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00008c50e0b7$7362d031$2cc8fe20$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read John Jason Brzozowski From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:29 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Neil J. McRae) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:29 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00009583e223$964a5256$ed04a7ab$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Neil J. McRae From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:31 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Justin Shore) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:31 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00008cb54460$ada386b7$9bae023c$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Justin Shore From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:27 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Justin Shore) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:27 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00000ecf028f$794a2598$87820a1d$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Justin Shore From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:36 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Gadi Evron) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:36 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00007885d082$030ce50d$5a28e475$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Gadi Evron From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:39 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Elmar K. Bins) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:39 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000d7f9492a$9bb5bc7d$9eca082b$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Elmar K. Bins From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:38 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Chuck Church) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:38 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000091c4f208$47892cb8$fc40ec2a$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Chuck Church From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:46 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Paul Rolland) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:46 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00004d134b1a$cac10bba$f92872c1$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Paul Rolland From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:52 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Matt Addison) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:52 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00000e73a14e$31e8a5dc$1fc16d40$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Matt Addison From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:17 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Michael Loftis) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:17 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00005fd72e97$dd307040$8f939cec$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Michael Loftis From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:52 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jill Stewart) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:52 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000a466870d$6011aec8$1f33b472$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jill Stewart From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:20 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Chris Adams) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:20 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000ccc9e009$804c3eee$42f88822$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Chris Adams From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:52 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Neil J. McRae) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:52 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000cbe4f0fa$ef169986$4279d91a$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Neil J. McRae From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:39 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Dale Shaw) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:39 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000a11c0e3d$1ba75716$7a6cb9f7$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Dale Shaw From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:48 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (David Edwards) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:48 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000036fd93fb$522c9f1a$51f77390$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read David Edwards From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:56 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Neil J. McRae) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:56 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00009530d623$e92908f1$78f2143e$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Neil J. McRae From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:56 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Job Snijders) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:56 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000ba201474$bd535b8e$53fe76d6$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Job Snijders From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:58 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Eric Brunner-Williams) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:58 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000774fbdd6$9e39de6d$d503859f$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Eric Brunner-Williams From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:59 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Durand Alain) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:59 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000028dd75a$ca736798$7d160532$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Durand Alain From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:52 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Paul Rolland) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:52 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00000bb5f352$71f2158d$f4e04059$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Paul Rolland From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:00 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Aftab Siddiqui) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:00 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000bb224554$6e2567be$0ef4b7a1$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Aftab Siddiqui From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:57 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Chuck Church) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:57 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000013acc4e7$39d80305$710a3629$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Chuck Church From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:52 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Octavio Alvarez) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:52 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00007891b429$d8e2ac2c$a8787f54$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Octavio Alvarez From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:01 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Durand Alain) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:01 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00009968f8b7$581f9a1a$aa192201$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Durand Alain From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:57 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (John Jason Brzozowski) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:57 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000c4b41e3e$c5986306$5bf347a8$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read John Jason Brzozowski From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:24 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (James P. Ashton) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:24 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000f636c323$8b2fc4ac$f36bd2e8$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read James P. Ashton From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:59 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Scott Howard) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:59 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000d6b5fe28$89f86162$f23ebc4e$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Scott Howard From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:04 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Philippe Baucherel) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:04 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000076862e16$404f164e$ac2aa34b$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Philippe Baucherel From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:04 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Durand Alain) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:04 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000e74b7578$4a95f868$1d9cdfe7$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Durand Alain From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:05 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Aftab Siddiqui) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:05 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000a68188ef$3ffde46f$89202ccf$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Aftab Siddiqui From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:06 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Philippe Baucherel) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:06 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00005a5cd97a$51a6218a$958798de$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Philippe Baucherel From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:05 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Matt Addison) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:05 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00000ecd5036$4944b1e5$1992467d$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Matt Addison From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:08 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Philippe Baucherel) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:08 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000de5e727a$cd3a96b7$2dc9c968$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Philippe Baucherel From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:02 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (John Jason Brzozowski) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:02 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000cece90db$5bb192f3$4ea59424$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read John Jason Brzozowski From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:05 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Scott Francis) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:05 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000f3d71924$3ed127de$1e27af70$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Scott Francis From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:03 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (MailPlus David Hofstee) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:03 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00007c08ea11$41ed92a2$ee285818$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read MailPlus David Hofstee From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:07 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (James P. Ashton) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:07 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000f9f32e0e$4c352293$78d2db58$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read James P. Ashton From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:03 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Deepak Jain) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:03 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000709c07c9$2688be4a$fb787bba$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Deepak Jain From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:00 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Philippe Baucherel) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:00 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00004912a592$4acf11cb$fb33afa1$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Philippe Baucherel From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:01 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Benoit VANNIER) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:01 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000087f92b82$6eee2906$705cf987$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Benoit VANNIER From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:52 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Octavio Alvarez) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:52 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00007891b429$d8e2ac2c$a8787f54$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Octavio Alvarez From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:28 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Chris Adams) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:28 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000589918f2$f0388532$db5b8253$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Chris Adams From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:06 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Bill Woodcock) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:06 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000dff20e80$f4772556$66ed79d4$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Bill Woodcock From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:06 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Henry Yen) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:06 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000010d6fceb$d432c39c$a1b17815$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Henry Yen From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:01 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Leslie) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:01 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00000b36532a$244474be$483ab020$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Leslie From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:08 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Scott Francis) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:08 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00006343b76e$3f64f8d4$80217091$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Scott Francis From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:08 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Octavio Alvarez) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:08 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000f82a9623$21c2f9f2$c843ef9b$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Octavio Alvarez From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:08 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Octavio Alvarez) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:08 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000f82a9623$21c2f9f2$c843ef9b$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Octavio Alvarez From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:02 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Henry Yen) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:02 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00006c081024$293f92e1$3f752bbe$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Henry Yen From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:10 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Aftab Siddiqui) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:10 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000a312f7db$0dd9d0b4$d5c59fd1$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Aftab Siddiqui From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:06 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (John Jason Brzozowski) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:06 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000065e91ed1$e647bb14$210c9126$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read John Jason Brzozowski From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:10 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Durand Alain) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:10 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000c6e675c1$5d60e45e$660459ac$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Durand Alain From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:07 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Steven Bellovin) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:07 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000a510b1da$37e40563$cf3a28c4$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Steven Bellovin From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:07 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Steven Bellovin) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:07 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000a510b1da$37e40563$cf3a28c4$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Steven Bellovin From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:37 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Chris Adams) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:37 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00006b49e6a9$75aeed3f$b0b077a0$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Chris Adams From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:02 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Steven Bellovin) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:02 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000ac75b481$956f8227$d84f25e0$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Steven Bellovin From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:09 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Henry Yen) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:09 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000357c68f8$5b72762f$95662b99$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Henry Yen From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:13 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Aftab Siddiqui) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:13 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00002b3a4b76$6be24852$e80d84cc$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Aftab Siddiqui From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:10 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (John Jason Brzozowski) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:10 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000891a7611$088448ed$a87ce0a7$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read John Jason Brzozowski From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:11 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Bill Woodcock) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:11 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000ab3ee5b8$b61cecbf$83634b54$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Bill Woodcock From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:13 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Octavio Alvarez) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:13 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000bddf81b9$af89b87e$c8609474$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Octavio Alvarez From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:13 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Octavio Alvarez) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:13 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000bddf81b9$af89b87e$c8609474$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Octavio Alvarez From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:13 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Matt Craig) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:13 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000cf16f571$b3d1c397$37116d67$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Matt Craig From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:12 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Brian Keefer) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:12 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000540c4b19$704a9b45$e6aee99e$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Brian Keefer From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:15 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Matt Addison) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:15 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000c84d0f72$67944fe9$b12d05e4$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Matt Addison From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:16 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Aftab Siddiqui) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:16 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000030d5cc69$4684ae79$537fba07$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Aftab Siddiqui From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:12 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Henry Yen) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:12 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000f84bdb9f$5633943a$82c3a8b3$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Henry Yen From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:16 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Durand Alain) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:16 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00002c9cce7c$b119463c$aa0b1a2e$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Durand Alain From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:15 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Henry Yen) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:15 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000799bb396$b2be57b2$67fb9193$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Henry Yen From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:17 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Matt Craig) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:17 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00009d3cba0a$7bb594bb$21ba7a8e$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Matt Craig From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:19 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Matt Addison) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:19 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000fafaade5$e639abb9$3e9f00a0$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Matt Addison From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:19 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Durand Alain) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:19 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000049a06aa4$acd87135$82301dbe$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Durand Alain From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:18 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Octavio Alvarez) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:18 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00002a894908$f2c05b20$fe1bc2ab$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Octavio Alvarez From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:18 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Octavio Alvarez) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:18 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00002a894908$f2c05b20$fe1bc2ab$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Octavio Alvarez From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:16 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Bill Woodcock) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:16 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00009fdb277d$f8105f3f$431d1858$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Bill Woodcock From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:17 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Steven Bellovin) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:17 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00006de55fd3$1f555c82$01a3e89f$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Steven Bellovin From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:17 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Steven Bellovin) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:17 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00006de55fd3$1f555c82$01a3e89f$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Steven Bellovin From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:42 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Sam Stickland) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:42 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00001451a09c$cf4cca54$d552159e$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Sam Stickland From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:17 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Tim Peiffer) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:17 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000df9908e7$c2ed459b$d30ee0f8$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Tim Peiffer From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:19 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Paul Jasa) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:19 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000456bd839$a23a6cc2$7412dc80$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Paul Jasa From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:15 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Nitzan Tzelniker) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:15 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000e7fa4849$5f906a35$2b4149a5$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Nitzan Tzelniker From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:18 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Mark) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:18 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000455ada2f$590ccd7f$76b82255$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Mark From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:19 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Aftab Siddiqui) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:19 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00001d3620f0$41f4b342$abb5498b$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Aftab Siddiqui From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:17 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (CJ) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:17 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00009ced5750$c012ad0a$2d55ba7e$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read CJ From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:22 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Matt Addison) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:22 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000d1a89e7f$739b5678$522990bd$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Matt Addison From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:22 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Durand Alain) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:22 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000015ad42ef$a0b54173$8a95035c$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Durand Alain From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:20 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Deepak Jain) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:20 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000fce5844c$357793ee$f1a9f3fe$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Deepak Jain From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:22 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Tim Peiffer) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:22 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00007c86d97e$50fb3064$c6d78975$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Tim Peiffer From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:20 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Brandon Galbraith) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:20 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000a6109a15$4c56f29e$c7ab4bba$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Brandon Galbraith From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:21 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jeffrey Haas) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:21 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000066eb7acb$8bf7fc1c$2f4f8238$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jeffrey Haas From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:22 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Mark) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:22 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000fe28b365$6dba2b46$f9aed691$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Mark From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:21 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Steven Bellovin) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:21 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000972c5b60$32d305fa$2f3b5e26$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Steven Bellovin From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:24 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Simon Lockhart) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:24 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000db0a7ac0$b5b6da53$575213b7$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Simon Lockhart From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:24 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Octavio Alvarez) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:24 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00000eac0153$fe3aaf8d$4addf566$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Octavio Alvarez From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:21 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jeffrey Haas) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:21 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000066eb7acb$8bf7fc1c$2f4f8238$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jeffrey Haas From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:25 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Durand Alain) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:25 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000630b7770$0ca4c868$eaad47f3$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Durand Alain From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:20 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Frank Bulk) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:20 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000a6c403ad$c7c14be8$9b3e6e3d$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Frank Bulk From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:11 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Edward avanti) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:11 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00001d351ce9$464a5e95$32623764$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Edward avanti From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:25 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Paul Ferguson) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:25 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000790a50c0$5e2d5fbc$15aa2f47$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Paul Ferguson From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:25 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Mark Tinka) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:25 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000eb5262b0$32a2a169$9c8c9a0d$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Mark Tinka From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:29 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Matt Addison) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:29 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00000f0b97a5$7ecaf1f7$2b4f3780$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Matt Addison From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:26 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (jdenoy at jdlabs.fr) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:26 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00008c9a7819$fe632eb9$f6c034d8$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read jdenoy at jdlabs.fr From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:26 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Scott Francis) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:26 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00008a827609$c709efc6$d4c37bc1$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Scott Francis From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:20 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Mns Nilsson) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:20 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000048375cb0$3ee71c6c$472bae36$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Mns Nilsson From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:23 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Chris Adams) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:23 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000218003fa$c7c246bc$3395e1a0$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Chris Adams From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:26 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Nitzan Tzelniker) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:26 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000c513112a$daa7ac7e$8417b404$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Nitzan Tzelniker From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:26 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Steven Bellovin) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:26 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000eed87080$e62910b6$8cd7a612$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Steven Bellovin From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:23 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (CJ) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:23 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000749060f6$d045cc71$71d2d1cd$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read CJ From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:51 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Chris Adams) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:51 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000b475e3aa$7b981dee$bf8f33e8$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Chris Adams From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:23 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Steve Bertrand) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:23 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000004fbc143$9f7ecc47$e0400838$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Steve Bertrand From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:28 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jeffrey Lyon) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:28 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000099f54f11$d80cea95$fc0f802a$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jeffrey Lyon From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:30 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Henry Yen) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:30 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000280008f0$edbd85b9$982e75b8$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Henry Yen From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:30 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Deepak Jain) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:30 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000df966c3d$eff22a1c$d4f17c1a$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Deepak Jain From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:28 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Matthieu Suiche) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:28 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00009070222b$e53935fb$b6cc4c47$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Matthieu Suiche From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:29 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Steve Bertrand) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:29 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000056bc18a5$d1635f72$0e067eeb$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Steve Bertrand From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:28 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Simon Lockhart) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:28 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000112b61c1$924792b9$1e91961e$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Simon Lockhart From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:28 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Matthieu Suiche) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:28 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00009070222b$e53935fb$b6cc4c47$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Matthieu Suiche From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:28 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Cord MacLeod) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:28 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000999751ec$cb0f5aeb$42e7c89f$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Cord MacLeod From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:28 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Matthieu Suiche) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:28 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00009070222b$e53935fb$b6cc4c47$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Matthieu Suiche From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:32 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Matthieu Suiche) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:32 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000ccbf73cd$7e6abd1f$b2ec7520$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Matthieu Suiche From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:32 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Matthieu Suiche) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:32 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000ccbf73cd$7e6abd1f$b2ec7520$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Matthieu Suiche From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:17 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Dale Shaw) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:17 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000e38bee18$ba9be5d7$59899c55$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Dale Shaw From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:30 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (CJ) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:30 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000219a1189$275e6f8d$b47b8f1c$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read CJ From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:33 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Henry Yen) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:33 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000215e0d3c$63e04e2f$ab0c28ad$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Henry Yen From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:24 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Rod Beck) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:24 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000b07c7f69$066744d5$11561cb4$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Rod Beck From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:33 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Cord MacLeod) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:33 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00004d6e0e05$3707309f$c8dec96d$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Cord MacLeod From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:36 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Matthew Petach) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:36 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000a5a32fbc$0584a77c$8c82391a$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Matthew Petach From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:31 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Peter Lothberg) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:31 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000a3e0b8b6$9bf13a35$e3c65483$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Peter Lothberg From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:37 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jeffrey Lyon) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:37 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000002fbc396$8512f14c$9c6a4259$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jeffrey Lyon From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:38 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Frank Bulk - iName.com) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:38 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00006d2c299c$3dd59a9c$25becff1$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Frank Bulk - iName.com From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:32 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Matthew Petach) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:32 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000dd0e6597$e9db6ee2$d1da2fce$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Matthew Petach From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:40 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Frank Bulk - iName.com) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:40 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000ea911b38$483593fb$09e731f8$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Frank Bulk - iName.com From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:40 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Frank Bulk - iName.com) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:40 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000ea911b38$483593fb$09e731f8$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Frank Bulk - iName.com From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:36 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Shacolby Jackson) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:36 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000084af4caf$fcee70ea$d85a6ddb$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Shacolby Jackson From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:34 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Frank Bulk) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:34 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000bb401ebb$12afd1f0$de7a7ead$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Frank Bulk From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:39 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Matthieu Suiche) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:39 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00008ab89313$868afefa$203cae2b$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Matthieu Suiche From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:39 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Matthieu Suiche) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:39 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00008ab89313$868afefa$203cae2b$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Matthieu Suiche From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:36 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Cord MacLeod) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:36 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00003a3a6d57$46ca3aad$4225f01d$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Cord MacLeod From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:39 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Simon Lockhart) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:39 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000abed97d1$6859a8af$0491ef2f$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Simon Lockhart From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:41 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (chip) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:41 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000788642e3$058bebe8$35ce0500$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read chip From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:40 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Benoit VANNIER) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:40 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000b53b98f5$7f35cb5c$32943d35$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Benoit VANNIER From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:37 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (S. Ryan) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:37 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000143c799a$7c2c9b74$2911dd99$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read S. Ryan From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:03 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Chris Adams) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:03 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000e0213058$b70248e2$754efdd2$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Chris Adams From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:40 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Kurt Ellzey) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:40 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000062ccad76$6d7396b2$76d2eaf8$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Kurt Ellzey From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:33 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Tim Peiffer) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:33 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000b896cf1d$7ef78b11$7c49ba64$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Tim Peiffer From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:41 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Shacolby Jackson) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:41 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000346d436b$1a6c0dcd$a21fa724$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Shacolby Jackson From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:41 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Brian Feeny) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:41 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00009e4b1bb2$dce2f547$b5b5ceda$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Brian Feeny From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:41 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (sakthi vadivel) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:41 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000589714f4$f2116e43$719841e9$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read sakthi vadivel From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:40 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Nitzan Tzelniker) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:40 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00007e884c52$a9bd7a8a$598a4496$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Nitzan Tzelniker From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:44 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jeremy L. Gaddis) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:44 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000fbed3b5e$e2c869e9$792b9605$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jeremy L. Gaddis From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:05 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Leslie) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:05 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00002559bd55$b81d0dc9$bc03281f$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Leslie From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:48 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jeremy L. Gaddis) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:48 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000096dde58$30459346$f40cdf0d$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jeremy L. Gaddis From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:47 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Tim Peiffer) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:47 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000031079430$74637101$f988c0a2$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Tim Peiffer From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:44 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Steve Bertrand) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:44 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000e9e6e67c$3970f640$f72d94d0$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Steve Bertrand From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:15 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Chris Adams) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:15 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000058735e5e$19e8a853$a7ecde11$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Chris Adams From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:45 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (John R. Levine) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:45 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00000dc2a443$a35775d0$220f0fd4$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read John R. Levine From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:48 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (John R. Levine) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:48 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00005c265b40$c9eff0a5$742f6c3a$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read John R. Levine From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:43 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (John R. Levine) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:43 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000fce3e7d7$7b4380ab$e4d8d742$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read John R. Levine From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:49 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Matthieu Suiche) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:49 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000b8bd5950$a5d5bc86$dae852da$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Matthieu Suiche From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:49 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Deepak Jain) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:49 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000a4508442$759528b3$94020c58$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Deepak Jain From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:49 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jimmy Hess) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:49 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000430b1afe$beb17042$bbdcd503$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jimmy Hess From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:51 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Tim Peiffer) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:51 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00000d734975$b3ef0c87$47756f8d$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Tim Peiffer From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:49 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Cord MacLeod) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:49 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000000aeb807$98a9949f$be6b31cf$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Cord MacLeod From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:49 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Steven Bellovin) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:49 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000752a1d11$94ddb169$16c19f49$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Steven Bellovin From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:51 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Brian Feeny) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:51 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00004dd095b7$a6761b4b$bd4c8acf$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Brian Feeny From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:49 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Kurt Ellzey) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:49 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000020326d09$f2d5e52e$91460449$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Kurt Ellzey From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:51 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Oliver Garraux) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:51 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000abb823d8$6a3d05fd$237a719f$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Oliver Garraux From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:51 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Oliver Garraux) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:51 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000abb823d8$6a3d05fd$237a719f$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Oliver Garraux From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:52 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (S. Ryan) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:52 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000537f2bcb$b0c82aaa$96c980d7$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read S. Ryan From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:52 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Ross Annetts) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:52 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000fd8a2072$57f0ae78$f3fb5135$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Ross Annetts From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:44 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Matthew Huff) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:44 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000572427b8$909dc34a$a73dac63$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Matthew Huff From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:54 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Ben Scott) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:54 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000f6f95dfe$c111e091$a4de5d03$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Ben Scott From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:51 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Deepak Jain) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:51 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000030cba844$73ea65a5$130dc49f$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Deepak Jain From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:52 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Randy Epstein) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:52 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00000c822ede$19e23867$19f9d103$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Randy Epstein From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:48 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Scott Howard) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:48 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000014ce451f$a8625027$d4da1857$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Scott Howard From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:53 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Cord MacLeod) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:53 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00008179ca84$b89ab581$1ca38152$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Cord MacLeod From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:56 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (yassia savadogo) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:56 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000f880a31e$850b13ad$0a6a658c$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read yassia savadogo From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:26 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Ryan Shea) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:26 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000b1152b11$a6860332$e584c81d$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Ryan Shea From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:55 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Tim Peiffer) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:55 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000aa497f4d$64ebcf4b$f755d9c2$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Tim Peiffer From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:56 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Kurt Ellzey) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:56 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000e005e2de$e40535d8$2e1b2c9e$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Kurt Ellzey From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:56 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Kurt Ellzey) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:56 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000e005e2de$e40535d8$2e1b2c9e$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Kurt Ellzey From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:56 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Marco Matarazzo) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:56 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000041eeeb82$6847dd09$463887b2$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Marco Matarazzo From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:56 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Marco Matarazzo) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:56 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000041eeeb82$6847dd09$463887b2$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Marco Matarazzo From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:57 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (William Herrin) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:57 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000c51ce248$7cba304d$8b036d4c$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read William Herrin From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:55 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Paul Stewart) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:55 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00006d390b9a$a3b753bf$2af9508b$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Paul Stewart From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:29 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Ryan Shea) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:29 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000ac0735f4$525191a0$7c825ca9$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Ryan Shea From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:57 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Steven M. Bellovin) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:57 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00004d1d871c$7ef09f86$e7b4045d$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Steven M. Bellovin From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:57 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Oliver Garraux) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:57 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00009dde0aa8$82ae50cd$35ddb4fe$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Oliver Garraux From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:58 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Randy Epstein) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:58 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000f2bf5597$ed42e59c$b199b492$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Randy Epstein From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:31 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Ryan Shea) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:31 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000202b22e9$59bbe727$50216425$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Ryan Shea From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:58 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Randy Bush) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:58 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00005509f522$8d63ae05$a3672c0c$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Randy Bush From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:01 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (jdenoy at jdlabs.fr) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:01 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000a14a461d$87100db3$992ff54e$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read jdenoy at jdlabs.fr From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:58 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Tim Eberhard) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:58 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00009b707aba$c46e7749$b386220e$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Tim Eberhard From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:59 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Nathan Ward) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:59 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00000fa2fae8$368389bc$cb7f864b$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Nathan Ward From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:50 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Andrew Nusbaum) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:50 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000b3102cf1$237f02db$e008bc8d$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Andrew Nusbaum From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:56 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Vitkovsk Adam) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:56 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00002660fbb7$5a52ed95$775d6b6b$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Vitkovsk Adam From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:02 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Nathan Ward) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:02 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000dd82b8d7$d185d49b$2c88c2f1$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Nathan Ward From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:01 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Kurt Ellzey) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:01 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000e913e5db$87d028ca$d0b9c5a2$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Kurt Ellzey From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:03 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Randy Epstein) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:03 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000e2848419$4e0b38c2$72d7b38e$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Randy Epstein From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:59 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (William Herrin) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:59 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000562d9e08$576057a8$1a0afa20$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read William Herrin From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:03 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (John Kristoff) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:03 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00005f3062ab$82757940$1a1a41b7$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read John Kristoff From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:05 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Marco Matarazzo) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:05 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000023d81048$ddcca7b1$0e7b175f$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Marco Matarazzo From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:05 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Marco Matarazzo) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:05 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000023d81048$ddcca7b1$0e7b175f$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Marco Matarazzo From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:05 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Chris Campbell) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:05 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00006b503430$0c9436a0$37178800$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Chris Campbell From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:04 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Nathalie Trenaman) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:04 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00008f01d774$1d0c900a$df34c785$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Nathalie Trenaman From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:05 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Oliver Garraux) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:05 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00009d78b4d3$fad042c8$efb9aa28$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Oliver Garraux From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:59 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Steve Bertrand) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:59 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000078ac6322$97c05762$c3ad8156$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Steve Bertrand From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:05 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Oliver Garraux) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:05 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00009d78b4d3$fad042c8$efb9aa28$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Oliver Garraux From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:33 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Ryan Shea) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:33 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00002535e718$d65b0aaf$022870c7$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Ryan Shea From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:02 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Nitzan Tzelniker) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:02 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00008a75ca9c$34864f70$5c523373$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Nitzan Tzelniker From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:00 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Marco Matarazzo) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:00 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000095a96f8b$69d436de$0d304cbc$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Marco Matarazzo From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:00 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Paul Stewart) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:00 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000b357fc0a$dc3d9c61$8aac22a7$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Paul Stewart From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:22 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Peter Lothberg) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:22 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000a1e27d69$20bfa851$f4e2c8cc$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Peter Lothberg From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:56 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Skeeve Stevens) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:56 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000d8b4960c$e1f7bcf9$580d6bc9$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Skeeve Stevens This email has been protected by YAC (Yet Another Cleaner) http://www.yac.mx From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:01 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Oliver Garraux) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:01 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000c07e9a8d$9af00e66$570b8ce1$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Oliver Garraux From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:01 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Brian Feeny) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:01 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000075315ca0$d141c1ce$bcf86274$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Brian Feeny From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:02 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (John Kristoff) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:02 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00008afbc7f8$798b1d42$e60d6846$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read John Kristoff From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:59 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (yassia savadogo) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:59 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000013b779c8$3bc7577e$08005f8a$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read yassia savadogo From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:59 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (yassia savadogo) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:59 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000013b779c8$3bc7577e$08005f8a$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read yassia savadogo From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:06 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Bryan Irvine) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:06 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00008fb2f878$f795bfa2$41469949$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Bryan Irvine From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:03 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Tim Eberhard) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:03 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00003cfb5e4b$e0afee80$65b8622f$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Tim Eberhard From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:07 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (John Adams) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:07 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000019891d7$343fd40d$12337dc1$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read John Adams --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:00 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (S. Ryan) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:00 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000462f4f71$c4b03285$fdc489a3$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read S. Ryan From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:06 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jeff Shultz) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:06 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000033f67d0d$0e0a2115$a2a63a2c$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jeff Shultz From voipsec-bounces at voipsa.org Sun Oct 25 01:34:01 2015 From: voipsec-bounces at voipsa.org (voipsec-bounces at voipsa.org) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:01 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000c97ba83f$758b434a$2b26f3fd$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read voipsec-bounces at voipsa.org From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:05 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (S. Ryan) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:05 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000078b02288$aec1b563$9e9a5cc2$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read S. Ryan From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:01 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (devang patel) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:01 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000f8c25039$28342ff9$af7dac55$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read devang patel From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:01 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Vitkovsk Adam) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:01 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000c7b749a6$53e31e50$29f60bf2$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Vitkovsk Adam From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:58 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (devang patel) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:58 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00005b600367$c2dd3cce$d81aca3e$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read devang patel From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:32 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Chris Adams) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:32 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000f2d7abb1$e0b90f70$6a7916fd$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Chris Adams From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:10 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Ross Annetts) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:10 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000220b8ca1$e3394b08$8c0a0b42$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Ross Annetts From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:07 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Justin Horstman) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:07 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00001e352ac5$b6f8ceaa$7e1791f6$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Justin Horstman From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:06 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Cord MacLeod) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:06 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000654d2f0a$2e8ae812$5d9ae010$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Cord MacLeod From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:06 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Vitkovsk Adam) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:06 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00002636dd4e$47885309$56e39edf$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Vitkovsk Adam From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:07 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Cb B) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:07 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000fa882739$057ad77a$52e57072$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Cb B From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:09 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Cameron Byrne) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:09 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000098c5da1b$007694c3$a1d69247$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Cameron Byrne From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:09 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Oliver Garraux) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:09 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000b96b1c60$81f3fbc4$b9375616$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Oliver Garraux From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:10 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Tony Finch) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:10 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000565d14cc$fce3bd60$7f221a5f$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Tony Finch From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:08 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (devang patel) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:08 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000f6877bfd$28a58b5e$b03f9efb$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read devang patel From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:08 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (shawn wilson) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:08 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000061510c5a$7c562d6e$612fdfe6$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read shawn wilson --- ???? ????? ? ???????? ?? ?????? ?? Avast. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:14 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Darius Jahandarie) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:14 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000b333f2fc$3f8be5b5$9d8ff632$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Darius Jahandarie From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:10 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jeff Shultz) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:10 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000034cccde4$40c0b49b$b4bac62f$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jeff Shultz From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:10 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Tim Eberhard) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:10 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000f209256e$0d1009dc$aa21bd8d$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Tim Eberhard From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:10 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Greg Ihnen) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:10 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000bec76326$35be42ed$ebdb8262$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Greg Ihnen From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:44 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Ryan Shea) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:44 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000675e473b$68586432$0dba8b10$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Ryan Shea From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:10 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Stefan Fouant) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:10 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000962407db$1971d337$54f1b050$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Stefan Fouant From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:09 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Steve Bertrand) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:09 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00002dd4dea6$454bb571$29edbf8f$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Steve Bertrand From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:11 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jamon Camisso) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:11 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000db11d269$25bb790d$1de7fb08$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jamon Camisso From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:14 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Nathalie Trenaman) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:14 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000476391c6$39445cee$30d8bd9c$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Nathalie Trenaman From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:14 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Eugeniu Patrascu) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:14 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000841957de$61b20d20$e4318ada$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Eugeniu Patrascu From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:13 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (shawn wilson) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:13 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00006fc30680$d0511936$cd54234c$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read shawn wilson --- ???? ????? ? ???????? ?? ?????? ?? Avast. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:12 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Paul Stewart) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:12 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000a139e934$00ba291b$42db9956$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Paul Stewart From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:15 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Justin Horstman) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:15 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00004eae8dfb$68a234f2$00572d48$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Justin Horstman From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:16 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Ross Annetts) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:16 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00009bdee8a2$6e6974d7$8bc1ec3d$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Ross Annetts From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:18 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Ingrid Wijte) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:18 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000ef399a65$437f1e71$9820b91e$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Ingrid Wijte From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:37 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Steve Bertrand) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:37 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00006f6d0b31$3158b702$9ff02f3a$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Steve Bertrand From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:15 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Stefan Fouant) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:15 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000008ede582$b0316d6f$b09114a1$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Stefan Fouant From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:16 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (S. Ryan) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:16 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000012152d44$13b52fc6$af81d110$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read S. Ryan From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:17 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Bryan Irvine) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:17 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000596c2c45$193d76d3$d7a37e62$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Bryan Irvine From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:16 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Greg Ihnen) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:16 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000a35e718b$82771fe0$3d0eeb17$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Greg Ihnen From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:19 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Steve Spence) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:19 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000ce80d2bc$e3627405$51730864$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Steve Spence From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:19 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (david peahi) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:19 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000068799a27$852df00c$346a1252$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read david peahi From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:18 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Faycal Hadj fhadj) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:18 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00000847936f$a407183a$72554af5$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Faycal Hadj fhadj From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:15 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Tim Eberhard) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:15 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000370a16ce$44461593$ae2adf4b$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Tim Eberhard From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:22 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Ingrid Wijte) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:22 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000285491ab$4389e669$3e568b6c$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Ingrid Wijte From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:18 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jamon Camisso) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:18 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00009ed7860a$9f68c6eb$6cb23589$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jamon Camisso From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:20 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Anders Lindbck) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:20 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000093ced8f6$681e64e8$772c19e2$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Anders Lindbck From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:14 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Rod Beck) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:14 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000f2321225$c0f8129e$232fa8b0$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Rod Beck From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:21 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Bryan Irvine) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:21 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00004de29b63$ab774ebe$f349cd12$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Bryan Irvine From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:21 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (John Adams) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:21 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000014085298$7457d554$090b8257$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read John Adams --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:23 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Ingrid Wijte) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:23 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000ee0a2d39$403d6600$ce87bb3a$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Ingrid Wijte From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:21 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (John Adams) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:21 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000014085298$7457d554$090b8257$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read John Adams --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:19 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Vitkovsk Adam) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:19 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00007663d653$c68dcf91$ea7c1589$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Vitkovsk Adam From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:20 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Marco Matarazzo) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:20 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00005d939447$f6875b5c$cb037c14$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Marco Matarazzo From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:22 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Peter Phaal) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:22 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000f0e24118$6236ec39$5e3d83cf$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Peter Phaal From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:24 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Peter Phaal) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:24 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00003ffc532b$b93fad6d$472761d4$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Peter Phaal From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:25 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Ingrid Wijte) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:25 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00005e642336$4fbe5b53$bd1268b7$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Ingrid Wijte From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:20 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (devang patel) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:20 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00004f5a776c$cd015bc0$22bac69c$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read devang patel From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:23 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Ross Annetts) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:23 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00006ce37d39$17c6ad9d$cfc7581d$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Ross Annetts From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:24 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Scott Berkman) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:24 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000049f95eda$522cfb91$44b6523d$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Scott Berkman From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:20 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Greg Ihnen) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:20 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000428db35b$a76c1b8e$7f65b2ca$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Greg Ihnen From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:23 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Justin Horstman) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:23 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00007ba78752$5ac5314f$e49473da$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Justin Horstman From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:20 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Cameron Byrne) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:20 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00004a15f7ab$6ba761fa$b9a710a3$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Cameron Byrne From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:23 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Faycal Hadj fhadj) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:23 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000043da807e$d428c60a$7af44135$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Faycal Hadj fhadj From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:23 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Faycal Hadj fhadj) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:23 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000043da807e$d428c60a$7af44135$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Faycal Hadj fhadj From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:26 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Scott Berkman) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:26 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000027da0651$1e85925b$0339f0fc$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Scott Berkman From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:23 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Vitkovsk Adam) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:23 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000fc36bca2$1651a05b$164eaae1$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Vitkovsk Adam From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:24 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Bryan Irvine) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:24 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000e0c3f1da$f157cf46$1727de28$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Bryan Irvine From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:24 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Bryan Irvine) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:24 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000e0c3f1da$f157cf46$1727de28$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Bryan Irvine From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:24 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Anders Lindbck) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:24 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000068a5ad4b$ee1b3a2a$2b1c2fbb$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Anders Lindbck From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:27 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Nathalie Trenaman) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:27 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00009142f29b$6ca0fec8$a2605608$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Nathalie Trenaman From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:17 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Robert Hajime Lanning) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:17 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000650fb942$92982efd$4c5495b9$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Robert Hajime Lanning --- El software de antivirus Avast ha analizado este correo electr?nico en busca de virus. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:25 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Stefan Fouant) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:25 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000b15f95a2$c8ec76ca$51c2d237$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Stefan Fouant From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:43 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Deepak Jain) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:43 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000fa29140c$e9a6cc79$74f6750f$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Deepak Jain From voipsec-bounces at voipsa.org Sun Oct 25 01:34:01 2015 From: voipsec-bounces at voipsa.org (voipsec-bounces at voipsa.org) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:01 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000c97ba83f$758b434a$2b26f3fd$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read voipsec-bounces at voipsa.org From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:09 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (John Adams) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:09 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000015b3feb7$448f01c9$f9fc2637$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read John Adams --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:14 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (John Adams) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:14 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00006c783246$e109d046$44868422$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read John Adams --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:24 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (John Adams) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:24 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00003c7072ab$427faf19$b9b9414a$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read John Adams --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:25 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Peter Phaal) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:25 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00006f8ceeb3$c387a2ef$41f4e06b$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Peter Phaal From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:25 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Marco Matarazzo) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:25 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00008f047b27$77837487$23d2f618$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Marco Matarazzo From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:26 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (John Adams) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:26 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000e0b7dd50$00a9e85b$3d638f67$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read John Adams --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:25 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Marco Matarazzo) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:25 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00008f047b27$77837487$23d2f618$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Marco Matarazzo From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:49 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Ryan Shea) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:49 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00003ee93c73$e2c78eba$44c28b93$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Ryan Shea From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:46 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Ryan Shea) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:46 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000059c541f0$3363bc60$f30fbf65$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Ryan Shea From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:24 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (shawn wilson) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:24 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000d794efde$3ff77e1f$2607f3e2$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read shawn wilson --- ???? ????? ? ???????? ?? ?????? ?? Avast. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:29 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Peter Phaal) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:29 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000bacff15d$564a8b9b$f42a765e$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Peter Phaal From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:27 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Justin Horstman) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:27 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00005d811815$05c24901$3b0b9f31$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Justin Horstman From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:26 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Iljitsch van Beijnum) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:26 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000f2e9fe29$c9701de7$18fd893c$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Iljitsch van Beijnum From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:20 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Rod Beck) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:20 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000ab390097$074fecea$0455c7ad$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Rod Beck From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:27 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Kurt Ellzey) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:27 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000006874968$cd4690fb$a6dde167$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Kurt Ellzey From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:30 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Ingrid Wijte) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:30 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000b7ad78c5$3d85e0e2$9dba2764$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Ingrid Wijte From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:27 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Anders Lindbck) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:27 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000505e9b01$4b16c016$848d5a18$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Anders Lindbck From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:21 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jamon Camisso) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:21 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000084f087b9$3f032eb2$87afb9a9$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jamon Camisso From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:30 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Peter Phaal) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:30 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00006bd58115$4d891d9d$d9be8966$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Peter Phaal From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:30 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Scott Berkman) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:30 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00007dcd1c62$2dcd7b87$868fd4ef$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Scott Berkman From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:28 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Bryan Irvine) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:28 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00001db5d281$dbe347b0$8595c129$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Bryan Irvine From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:30 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Iljitsch van Beijnum) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:30 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000952d4bba$2d9aeef5$85471500$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Iljitsch van Beijnum From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:28 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Brian Feeny) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:28 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000920a1a96$115f9bec$606f3324$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Brian Feeny From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:28 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Faycal Hadj fhadj) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:28 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00002b65bf34$39c9f583$0735695d$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Faycal Hadj fhadj From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:32 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Ingrid Wijte) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:32 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000045ec5e0$570a5342$69dddbe9$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Ingrid Wijte From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:28 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Faycal Hadj fhadj) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:28 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00002b65bf34$39c9f583$0735695d$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Faycal Hadj fhadj From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:33 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Karl Oulmi) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:33 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000f80b7754$6adc94a1$a54b109f$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Karl Oulmi From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:29 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Marco Matarazzo) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:29 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000eb6d449f$33529e49$aff83b7a$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Marco Matarazzo From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:13 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Peter Lothberg) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:13 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00007be3c888$5eac5b6f$b483830e$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Peter Lothberg From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:35 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Karl Oulmi) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:35 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00000e6f90ef$9c74cdec$d439cb24$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Karl Oulmi From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:27 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Vitkovsk Adam) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:27 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000b67eeca4$9bb8df9d$9b24ea9b$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Vitkovsk Adam From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:33 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Ingrid Wijte) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:33 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00001d038849$22b12197$4aa7002d$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Ingrid Wijte From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:25 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jason Iannone) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:25 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000b0a78131$6f09bf49$5d2d2a2b$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jason Iannone From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:30 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Anders Lindbck) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:30 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000abea35eb$0262efee$b1ebe944$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Anders Lindbck From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:34 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Karl Oulmi) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:34 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00007c980ae6$576e9309$d092d6e3$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Karl Oulmi From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:32 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Nathalie Trenaman) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:32 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000d2c57637$dba54074$8c4e6891$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Nathalie Trenaman From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:30 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Karl Oulmi) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:30 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000fc9df39d$5b352774$f3f6c8bc$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Karl Oulmi From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:30 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (David Edwards) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:30 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00006dbb39dd$beacd61a$b3641927$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read David Edwards From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:33 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Peter Phaal) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:33 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000e718d9e6$93872c9f$95ea9e26$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Peter Phaal From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:32 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Karl Oulmi) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:32 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00007ab7d604$16d772ad$f758ad00$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Karl Oulmi From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:27 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Cameron Byrne) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:27 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000c024a1e1$b60481c6$d306238e$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Cameron Byrne From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:31 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Joseph Snyder) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:31 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000faa19507$d918f073$336fbc7e$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Joseph Snyder From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:33 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Anders Lindbck) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:33 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00004b6c3397$397882b8$ce689009$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Anders Lindbck From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:33 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Marco Matarazzo) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:33 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00004202b704$f6cd6158$beaeb2b6$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Marco Matarazzo From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:34 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Stefan Fouant) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:34 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00006ccc307a$b338dfa4$60a62826$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Stefan Fouant From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:34 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Mark Gallagher) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:34 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000038eb032$9e662f72$b1660fe2$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Mark Gallagher From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:34 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (shawn wilson) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:34 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000c507bfe8$4f6cac2c$24ea9f1b$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read shawn wilson --- ???? ????? ? ???????? ?? ?????? ?? Avast. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:35 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Cameron Byrne) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:35 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000096e6b762$3c712f6c$c20536a3$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Cameron Byrne From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:36 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Anders Lindbck) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:36 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000064e36403$9ba00de0$187ff832$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Anders Lindbck From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:36 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Anders Lindbck) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:36 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000064e36403$9ba00de0$187ff832$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Anders Lindbck From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:37 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Nick Olsen) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:37 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000049f3ee02$fb308443$d7b91ea7$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Nick Olsen From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:32 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Nick Olsen) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:32 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00006436faaa$d44ff1c0$3ea4130a$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Nick Olsen From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:17 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Sandra Mills) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:17 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00000349547b$9a2a2427$5887c9e4$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Sandra Mills From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:34 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (David Edwards) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:34 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000d1319541$87ca2422$f6d49772$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read David Edwards From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:38 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Nathalie Trenaman) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:38 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000039e38e74$6acf9cd0$30324079$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Nathalie Trenaman From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:23 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Sandra Mills) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:23 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000067932639$d88f1af5$7e035bd8$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Sandra Mills From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:23 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (devang patel) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:23 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00002a491856$1dcd99ca$a35852b9$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read devang patel From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:39 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Anders Lindbck) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:39 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000bd7e50d5$0e4a758e$78b9bf60$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Anders Lindbck From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:39 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Anders Lindbck) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:39 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000bd7e50d5$0e4a758e$78b9bf60$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Anders Lindbck From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:28 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Skeeve Stevens) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:28 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000379b2611$4f4d208b$f9b6be4c$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Skeeve Stevens This email has been protected by YAC (Yet Another Cleaner) http://www.yac.mx From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:37 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Curtis Maurand) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:37 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000d2ba5fca$f81b1d05$48d6b499$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Curtis Maurand From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:38 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Stefan Fouant) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:38 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00002c9f4703$70ec59b0$08b84a5e$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Stefan Fouant From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:41 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Nathalie Trenaman) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:41 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00008e09e41a$448bd1a2$a6278099$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Nathalie Trenaman From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:36 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Vitkovsk Adam) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:36 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000c58d3d6d$5439973d$fb1151e5$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Vitkovsk Adam From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:10 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Nick B) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:10 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00003de3499c$cb76881c$1c277c04$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Nick B From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:41 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Curtis Maurand) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:41 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000097959f5e$269c8679$5bcee8a2$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Curtis Maurand From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:40 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Raymond Dijkxhoorn) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:40 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000f2fc6cd1$29feb09f$5064a867$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Raymond Dijkxhoorn From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:42 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Anders Lindbck) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:42 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00002d7ac0f2$45f21408$28d73b82$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Anders Lindbck From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:38 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (shawn wilson) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:38 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000853f23bf$90037f4b$25349b69$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read shawn wilson --- ???? ????? ? ???????? ?? ?????? ?? Avast. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:42 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Anders Lindbck) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:42 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00002d7ac0f2$45f21408$28d73b82$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Anders Lindbck From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:11 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (devang patel) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:11 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000056cac67c$690baa0b$57d0b402$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read devang patel From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:35 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (David CROCHEMORE) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:35 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000bab40f3f$c7266d9a$13967527$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read David CROCHEMORE From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:13 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Nick B) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:13 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00009c171a70$a43e3aef$e66f5d9b$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Nick B From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:37 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Wil Schultz) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:37 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000b5ebc4a6$800cbd1a$d198b3f1$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Wil Schultz From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:42 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Mike Lyon) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:42 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000053878c0b$38ebad6f$47e5a86a$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Mike Lyon From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:42 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (David CROCHEMORE) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:42 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000015e7890c$93af971c$35f5404b$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read David CROCHEMORE From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:44 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Brad Freeman) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:44 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000050b48407$88547e84$88a8c1c9$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Brad Freeman From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:46 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Matthieu Suiche) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:46 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000486bb877$366e9cef$dcb14244$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Matthieu Suiche From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:45 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Anders Lindbck) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:45 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00003e0459c8$58ba89da$bcf1fba7$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Anders Lindbck From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:35 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Rod Beck) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:35 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00005ee89488$fe168b37$d5365d3a$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Rod Beck From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:45 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jamie Bowden) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:45 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000db31c240$a9797097$45a61064$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jamie Bowden From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:41 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Shin SHIRAHATA) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:41 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00008d346694$aaa30a2f$acf047aa$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Shin SHIRAHATA From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:44 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Cameron Byrne) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:44 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000c4d38d22$7ff33b88$d1dba801$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Cameron Byrne From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:44 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Shin SHIRAHATA) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:44 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000087977b7$62033d1e$d4303ff2$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Shin SHIRAHATA From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:43 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Stefan Fouant) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:43 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000d7dff390$97e1cf01$6ed3427f$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Stefan Fouant From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:47 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Shin SHIRAHATA) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:47 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000236ac51e$c6720af0$c0737f1d$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Shin SHIRAHATA From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:48 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Nick Olsen) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:48 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000032db5e7d$52f311f2$4814647a$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Nick Olsen From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:20 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Nick B) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:20 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000885dd769$854d560b$05e80d74$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Nick B From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:51 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Nick Olsen) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:51 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00001aefe9ca$69fbb6f4$109733ee$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Nick Olsen From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:51 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Larry Blunk) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:51 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000448602b7$cd6501a8$19e43e8c$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Larry Blunk From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:53 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Nick Olsen) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:53 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000e4a32c1c$92d75091$65f95a6e$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Nick Olsen From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:55 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Nick Olsen) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:55 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000dbdd6483$7ad63076$40ca225c$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Nick Olsen From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:54 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Larry Blunk) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:54 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000c91aaa45$2a6a5b47$e5eb1499$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Larry Blunk From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:45 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (David Temkin) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:45 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000c56faa3c$188961dc$2141ac02$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read David Temkin From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:54 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (mitch tanenbaum) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:54 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000082154502$f3925489$5fb95ce8$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read mitch tanenbaum From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:54 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Shin SHIRAHATA) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:54 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000d91e66ba$75db95c8$21aeaf88$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Shin SHIRAHATA From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:26 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Nick B) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:26 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000107d7dcb$73381d39$dd4bcee4$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Nick B From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:53 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (remi) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:53 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00008d86ca3a$93b6ca33$675f3022$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read remi From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:53 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Stefan Fouant) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:53 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000ad4be5b4$ea08151e$17f177db$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Stefan Fouant From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:55 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Greg Ihnen) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:55 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00004d953f66$2e2f66c1$621cd541$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Greg Ihnen From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:56 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (joe mcguckin) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:56 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000fbae1575$e75487f9$c9f58c5f$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read joe mcguckin From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:58 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Richard Bennett) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:58 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000a7029978$65b14d7e$f3afbf1f$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Richard Bennett From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:57 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (mitch tanenbaum) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:57 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00001ce60128$7bb90e30$d73170a3$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read mitch tanenbaum From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:55 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Thomas Mangin) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:55 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00006d07efd5$15a4fbe8$0d3b5411$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Thomas Mangin From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:57 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Joseph Snyder) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:57 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000abcd9795$dcd36cf0$40a1fec6$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Joseph Snyder From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:57 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Shin SHIRAHATA) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:57 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000d773b649$c92fabfe$4af46039$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Shin SHIRAHATA From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:58 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Brandon Galbraith) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:58 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000878afd6a$41fe77cf$dd860e86$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Brandon Galbraith From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:03 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (remi) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:03 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000054345723$1ec47c9f$3df86604$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read remi From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:00 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Rubens Kuhl) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:00 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000033128e58$bf79446a$1b6c7d04$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Rubens Kuhl From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:05 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (mitch tanenbaum) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:05 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000dbd136b1$f829ab65$a5f4c79b$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read mitch tanenbaum From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:33 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Aria Stewart) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:33 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00008c3961a4$c5c07e1a$e983110d$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Aria Stewart From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:05 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Thomas Mangin) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:05 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000076db4c0d$829c5559$28cbc9bc$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Thomas Mangin From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:31 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Nick B) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:31 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000b483a04d$29c557b8$71d033d4$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Nick B From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:00 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Shin SHIRAHATA) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:00 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000097228e36$28e4c3f2$23eeb852$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Shin SHIRAHATA From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:01 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Richard Bennett) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:01 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000da906071$f634999b$b17dcb7d$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Richard Bennett From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:35 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Raymond Macharia) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:35 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000148ec008$b5a83946$e7492de2$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Raymond Macharia From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:37 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Raymond Macharia) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:37 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000e65d81eb$aec363e3$c632624e$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Raymond Macharia From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:06 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Shin SHIRAHATA) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:06 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00003374b2e8$75107f04$c30fe05d$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Shin SHIRAHATA From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:56 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (David Edwards) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:56 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000831cce7b$c31b738f$739c7281$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read David Edwards From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:03 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (mitch tanenbaum) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:03 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00003445eb40$7d643515$223fcc2b$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read mitch tanenbaum From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:08 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Michael DeMan) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:08 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00004e040954$83fe9d96$9e77124d$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Michael DeMan From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:33 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Raymond Macharia) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:33 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000086a2893e$db5272d6$95878de9$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Raymond Macharia From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:06 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Soucy Ray) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:06 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000e07064d5$6c4b0b75$025ce6af$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Soucy Ray From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:08 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Paul Ferguson) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:08 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000063fa26f8$5220ddef$c871d95d$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Paul Ferguson From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:11 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (mitch tanenbaum) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:11 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00003f4976dd$8e7d1485$25db72be$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read mitch tanenbaum From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:37 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Aria Stewart) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:37 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000e6f9423c$2aa0db68$32f5f5af$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Aria Stewart From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:10 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Shin SHIRAHATA) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:10 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000027e99053$3e9db884$100aeff4$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Shin SHIRAHATA From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:08 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Joseph Snyder) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:08 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000128371fd$5552b3cf$2f26b06f$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Joseph Snyder From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:04 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Rubens Kuhl) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:04 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000782abdb2$5bc680d6$fd983d64$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Rubens Kuhl From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:05 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (David Edwards) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:05 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000e98a1569$0d7492b6$1bc2eeae$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read David Edwards From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:34 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Nick B) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:34 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000bcb7dc7c$6a21248f$3e0d31a6$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Nick B From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:13 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Roger Marquis) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:13 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000778a3725$0a7eb8df$5d00f2cb$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Roger Marquis From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:09 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Thomas Mangin) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:09 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000eef48593$c838f6f3$586702ad$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Thomas Mangin From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:41 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Raymond Macharia) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:41 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00000c7ce2e1$e6f5b096$aaad137e$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Raymond Macharia From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:13 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Aled Morris) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:13 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00001cf4cb69$58adf184$6295b1d9$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Aled Morris From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:14 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jason Hellenthal) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:14 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000aec32a51$1970bf22$98f5e935$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jason Hellenthal From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:09 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Patrick Shoemaker) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:09 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00000f0c557f$712f4a87$31b41175$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Patrick Shoemaker From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:13 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Shin SHIRAHATA) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:13 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000042b5297e$2082e2d6$f5e0cd10$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Shin SHIRAHATA From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:43 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Raymond Macharia) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:43 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000eeadb6fd$56bdf21f$d2c2a4bf$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Raymond Macharia From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:57 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Martin Rushworth) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:57 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00007863fc14$f73d33e4$97e10e87$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Martin Rushworth From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:11 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Soucy Ray) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:11 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000fd1d652a$841bc6b4$8e516da3$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Soucy Ray From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:11 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Randy Carpenter) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:11 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000631dbdb8$592bfa79$c28c0fa5$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Randy Carpenter From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:16 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Roger Marquis) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:16 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000e2d49582$f03db302$b043dd9a$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Roger Marquis From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:11 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Eugen Leitl) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:11 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00004dc1290d$da751564$ccfa00cd$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Eugen Leitl From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:15 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jamie Bowden) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:15 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000bb334bfc$b9e0ba6a$5a96e829$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jamie Bowden From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:17 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Roger Marquis) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:17 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000048cbb3a$a7a52775$c7742b64$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Roger Marquis From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:15 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Richard Bennett) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:15 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000008c95ca4$97a4d11d$36e2d25c$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Richard Bennett From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:17 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Aled Morris) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:17 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000b1374d1e$ef75c964$67435d0a$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Aled Morris From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:14 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Siegel David) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:14 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000ba1fc7ac$a82ef0f0$14897d9d$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Siegel David From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:19 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Roger Marquis) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:19 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000070772773$55223b75$711fd83d$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Roger Marquis From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:11 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jake Mertel) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:11 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00002940a0cf$f9bb4353$5b51d77c$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jake Mertel From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:19 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Aled Morris) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:19 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000430edc6e$2a59d06b$41ba52bb$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Aled Morris From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:19 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jason Leschnik) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:19 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000b3a94ac6$1b871d7e$e62de749$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jason Leschnik From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:16 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Richard Mortier) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:16 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00005157759d$300e1f8e$2117b561$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Richard Mortier From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:16 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Richard Mortier) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:16 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00005157759d$300e1f8e$2117b561$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Richard Mortier From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:44 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Aria Stewart) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:44 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000b8cf15f1$411bd4fa$597aeaf9$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Aria Stewart From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:15 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Howard C. Berkowitz) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:15 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000ee53c256$83b26d83$c9d5c927$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Howard C. Berkowitz From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:18 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Gregory J. Boehnlein) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:18 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000002e944d4$5c3615bc$eaa9f4f0$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Gregory J. Boehnlein From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:22 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jason Leschnik) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:22 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000ee862340$efe90429$d73d2eae$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jason Leschnik From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:16 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Soucy Ray) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:16 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000c1281369$eb5881c3$2da78362$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Soucy Ray From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:21 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Chris Hindy) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:21 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000092ab7341$296b46d6$176fa47f$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Chris Hindy From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:19 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Hyunseog Ryu) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:19 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00009f40ab70$6fa52b0a$793cfe1a$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Hyunseog Ryu From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:20 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Tom Ammon) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:20 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00003ad94660$525972a5$a13962c3$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Tom Ammon From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:22 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Ricky Beam) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:22 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000fe868ff3$d82527c4$2cd739fc$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Ricky Beam From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:51 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Raymond Macharia) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:51 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000a543afb9$df4a262a$3762ee6d$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Raymond Macharia From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:17 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Eugen Leitl) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:17 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000e3cc31f5$ea00867c$1f0f389f$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Eugen Leitl From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:21 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Gregory J. Boehnlein) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:21 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000090f265f7$0a637d7e$0b9a1192$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Gregory J. Boehnlein From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:13 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (David Temkin) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:13 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000b83f5c4b$c1495348$2cb3034f$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read David Temkin From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:52 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Aria Stewart) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:52 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000fc59bf29$07226140$a7f0c174$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Aria Stewart From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:18 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Michael Smith) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:18 -0700 Subject: ***SPAM*** Fw: new message Message-ID: <00008b679248$b2e3fd39$0d26f884$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Michael Smith From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:19 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Richard Bennett) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:19 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000a6c05638$eb1f6952$b89eb02b$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Richard Bennett From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:23 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Ravi Pina) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:23 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000a016fa0c$de1b1e61$e7a8f571$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Ravi Pina From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:23 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (remi) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:23 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000ae182e06$3d2de2fa$0302cb4f$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read remi From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:25 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (joel jaeggli) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:25 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000ad7f4edf$084c7983$be621492$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read joel jaeggli From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:22 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (mitch tanenbaum) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:22 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000216a5809$ea0afa2a$7e45f495$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read mitch tanenbaum From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:24 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Hyunseog Ryu) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:24 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00000bd10a71$4ece6a1a$9f0000a8$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Hyunseog Ryu From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:21 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Soucy Ray) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:21 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000070ac3e3e$978d5c62$225d4e6b$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Soucy Ray From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:25 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Ricky Beam) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:25 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00006ab0c7b5$3f6f31ed$f4262798$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Ricky Beam From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:26 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Gregory J. Boehnlein) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:26 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000e216f5bd$8e596744$80542c9c$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Gregory J. Boehnlein From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:26 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Justin Wilson) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:26 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000fad65b6a$ee822f9f$fadba8a4$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Justin Wilson From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:26 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Michael Smiley) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:26 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000f85b4ea3$dad9a762$5d2d628d$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Michael Smiley From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:27 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jason Leschnik) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:27 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000921445d3$d79a9284$5c93b339$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jason Leschnik From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:24 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Grant Ridder) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:24 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000012b7bb9d$c3130504$b735abb4$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Grant Ridder From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:25 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Patrick Shoemaker) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:25 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00004d3af5be$855180ab$cf16a67c$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Patrick Shoemaker From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:24 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Tom Ammon) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:24 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00006f9d6122$db06f709$a17913f0$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Tom Ammon From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:25 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (vijay gill) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:25 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00009f4a15bb$cb20be6c$e0508c04$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read vijay gill From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:57 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Aria Stewart) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:57 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000eb651ae2$595e92e6$a535346c$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Aria Stewart From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:20 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Majdi S. Abbas) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:20 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00002f6887a2$da13e32d$e021a320$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Majdi S. Abbas From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:28 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (joel jaeggli) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:28 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00006b96de2b$4dfd7c2b$f5ac3427$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read joel jaeggli From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:25 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Michael Smith) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:25 -0700 Subject: ***SPAM*** Fw: new message Message-ID: <00009c3fa905$ebf18110$c0a76c5b$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Michael Smith From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:28 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Richard Bennett) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:28 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000f9229e42$5682bfdf$3ef9bc29$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Richard Bennett From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:29 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Justin Wilson) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:29 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000047266241$3110534b$204c7213$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Justin Wilson From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:28 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Skywing) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:28 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00006a8cf9e9$3d6f8696$f564d831$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Skywing From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:30 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Richard Mortier) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:30 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00007ed1fb36$5f6ac51d$0da870cc$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Richard Mortier From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:30 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Lee Howard) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:30 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000cca111bd$a07a6f16$d6219d66$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Lee Howard From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:29 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Chris Hindy) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:29 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00003d78dedd$20a5a0bb$4cb2ab10$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Chris Hindy From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:30 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jason Leschnik) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:30 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00002c1c2c9f$0616c090$65e89272$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jason Leschnik From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:30 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jason Iannone) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:30 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00003798ccea$f176133b$88de22be$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jason Iannone From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:23 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jamon Camisso) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:23 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00005ba4a8e6$3b448e7a$9c2fedd5$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jamon Camisso From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:28 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jason Biel) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:28 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00009497315d$1defe86b$98c09e71$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jason Biel From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:29 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Ricky Beam) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:29 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000b6fd3dd1$b2b92ef4$f8c1571b$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Ricky Beam From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:32 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Bill Woodcock) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:32 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000511fd51f$6a47eacf$8403988f$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Bill Woodcock From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:26 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Howard C. Berkowitz) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:26 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000f33981d7$cb9b99c0$ccccd6b5$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Howard C. Berkowitz From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:29 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Hyunseog Ryu) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:29 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00005d9f58dd$01512901$774d6cb9$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Hyunseog Ryu From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:24 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Tony Thornton) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:24 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000527e8be9$416308bd$027b8103$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Tony Thornton From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:31 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Skywing) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:31 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000628f53ac$1b5ba74a$fc5d84d7$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Skywing From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:29 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Gregory J. Boehnlein) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:29 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000056de4cd3$4bdc7e26$a68c3e38$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Gregory J. Boehnlein From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:28 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Tom Ammon) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:28 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000b3367715$d83f7439$645ee91a$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Tom Ammon From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:27 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Soucy Ray) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:27 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000087d2f30e$474419e8$7c5df2f8$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Soucy Ray From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:27 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (chris) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:27 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000091ae77b1$39cf5246$5399fe43$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read chris From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:32 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Richard Mortier) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:32 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000d8e07c59$2860bbad$a125982b$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Richard Mortier From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:32 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Henry Linneweh) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:32 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00003a7d0bd5$7ee42ad6$d091af25$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Henry Linneweh From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:32 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Justin Wilson) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:32 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00001a209a51$e37788d5$e04daab2$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Justin Wilson From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:29 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jamon Camisso) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:29 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000780659ef$135dc71a$2f6c3ef8$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jamon Camisso From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:30 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Phil Fagan) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:30 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000084b6318b$82e171c5$80cc40fa$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Phil Fagan From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:23 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jamie Bowden) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:23 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000018247b16$7b4e6d15$7c81862b$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jamie Bowden From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:31 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Patrick Shoemaker) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:31 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000029beb7d4$7d303229$26dc746a$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Patrick Shoemaker From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:34 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Majdi S. Abbas) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:34 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000942c54a0$d0b0a5dd$d5d7424d$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Majdi S. Abbas From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:31 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Nick Khamis) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:31 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000011ced7a4$aa0d1851$8ccfb195$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Nick Khamis From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:17 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jason Hellenthal) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:17 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000bcb51459$9d813ab1$126b9bab$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jason Hellenthal From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:33 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (remi) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:33 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000086f9f001$22dfcc00$17fb1a31$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read remi From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:33 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Salima Ait Meziane) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:33 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000d5e7d48c$1d5bb4b4$b983924d$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Salima Ait Meziane From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:35 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Justin Wilson) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:35 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00007de423a6$0a810ab5$a1f5b070$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Justin Wilson From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:30 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Michael Smith) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:30 -0700 Subject: ***SPAM*** Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000645cb349$91fa6876$d2c4e17c$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Michael Smith From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:33 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Grant Ridder) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:33 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00008cca51e5$d0a00d7b$b55035d6$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Grant Ridder From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:35 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Manish Karir) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:35 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00006fbf4b69$a28b8c42$04d1c617$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Manish Karir From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:36 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jason Iannone) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:36 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000028760faa$d2f10a12$e1174930$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jason Iannone From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:36 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Mike Jones) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:36 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00006b8f92db$08ea5304$636ff0ca$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Mike Jones From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:36 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Skywing) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:36 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000fd448ca5$44ca0329$0807e9d5$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Skywing From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:33 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Hyunseog Ryu) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:33 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00009d8650d7$f38cdfaf$a36bb616$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Hyunseog Ryu From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:34 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Nick Khamis) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:34 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000af1857a6$364a4978$0a4bc1bf$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Nick Khamis From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:34 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Richard Mortier) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:34 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000084c447f7$7c6a0e0d$96bfa05b$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Richard Mortier From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:36 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Heath Jones) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:36 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000d3c9540a$6dea17a9$a7a1c813$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Heath Jones From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:34 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Tony Thornton) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:34 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000005de20e7$620b192f$44b35b1a$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Tony Thornton From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:37 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Mike Jones) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:37 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000077a4360b$7b1a7e03$36b5d3b6$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Mike Jones From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:36 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Mishka Jason) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:36 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000e0592060$67b12cac$8b6f0147$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Mishka Jason From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:31 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jason Biel) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:31 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000a9e51240$49b8636e$b843c2d5$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jason Biel From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:32 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Bill McGonigle) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:32 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000af380c17$6bd41305$0a06cf57$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Bill McGonigle From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:32 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Mills Charles) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:32 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000ab065b67$d279cedb$0d4352c8$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Mills Charles From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:38 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Mike Jones) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:38 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000030b63862$a90cd8f9$5daeea3d$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Mike Jones From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:35 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Phil Fagan) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:35 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00003b4a215d$8694c855$46ca0bd4$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Phil Fagan From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:37 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Manish Karir) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:37 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000c15d7d97$af52c0a2$14edf855$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Manish Karir From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:38 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jason Iannone) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:38 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000ab2a99de$633dcaf6$db404666$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jason Iannone From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:39 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Mike Jones) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:39 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000e4ed733f$bcb8b10a$aac28f51$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Mike Jones From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:39 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Skywing) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:39 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000012871ffb$72cc7744$983b2073$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Skywing From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:34 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (chris) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:34 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000c7c08d23$56eb0d86$e6a080d7$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read chris From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:39 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Matthew Black) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:39 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000b7228a78$02e4eda8$46e60290$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Matthew Black From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:31 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Josh Fiske) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:31 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000077fa4719$80976778$05b7eff9$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Josh Fiske From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:37 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Salima Ait Meziane) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:37 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000232c036f$09b3b8b2$da213da0$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Salima Ait Meziane From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:35 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jamon Camisso) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:35 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000915c1f0b$b1ba41c7$68b13219$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jamon Camisso From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:37 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Hyunseog Ryu) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:37 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000051d59560$f3ccfea8$fbf44287$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Hyunseog Ryu From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:34 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Nathan Eisenberg) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:34 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00006d58fab7$8f6a989e$447d426a$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Nathan Eisenberg From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:37 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Nick Khamis) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:37 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00008f87f90b$71f07e4c$d77bb80d$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Nick Khamis From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:40 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jason Leschnik) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:40 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000056dc33e6$118b10de$fd9f0a0a$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jason Leschnik From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:39 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Felipe Zanchet Grazziotin) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:39 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000010673029$077149c1$9c756c95$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Felipe Zanchet Grazziotin From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:38 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Akyol Bora A) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:38 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000078b0aeeb$0067df92$913c295f$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Akyol Bora A From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:39 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Wayne E. Bouchard) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:39 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000cc8b140e$0526df6c$46e563ae$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Wayne E. Bouchard From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:38 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Grant Ridder) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:38 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00000f0bfd20$f6d77cbf$64fa6d29$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Grant Ridder From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:19 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Martin Rushworth) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:19 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00003c2b3685$9fc2bbad$db016bfd$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Martin Rushworth From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:32 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (David Temkin) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:32 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00009557775e$492ad277$a6ed05c5$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read David Temkin From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:40 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Chris Hindy) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:40 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000948019fa$db78ad77$e3283bb1$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Chris Hindy From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:36 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Mills Charles) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:36 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00001989af87$77a9341c$ac222b39$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Mills Charles From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:39 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Pete Crocker) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:39 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00009805127d$b0c4b2c0$fe098dee$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Pete Crocker From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:40 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Ricky Beam) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:40 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000dac375cb$fed77bfd$21b034d4$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Ricky Beam From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:41 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Mishka Jason) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:41 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00009ea83040$5f201f3d$ba1eec62$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Mishka Jason From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:38 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Soucy Ray) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:38 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00005b7f0921$3b670554$befd65fc$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Soucy Ray From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:43 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Mishka Jason) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:43 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00004f528c3f$06322e7f$ccc508da$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Mishka Jason From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:37 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Bill McGonigle) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:37 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000092ab6866$6491ec00$1991e2c5$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Bill McGonigle From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:40 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Mishka Jason) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:40 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000786e8199$60d33223$3b6e1852$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Mishka Jason From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:44 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Matthew Black) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:44 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000032565b30$d93a4b74$c97a5326$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Matthew Black From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:41 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Phil Fagan) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:41 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000de7f0ae1$36c1258f$d5e1dccd$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Phil Fagan From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:40 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Tom Ammon) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:40 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00008c06eb2e$fd5ba0e5$8f435594$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Tom Ammon From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:43 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Wayne E. Bouchard) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:43 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00005abcc4cd$ee86a3f6$9e752ce7$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Wayne E. Bouchard From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:42 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (William Allen Simpson) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:42 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000e6442ffc$24e8c26d$ce0568f5$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read William Allen Simpson From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:43 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Henry Linneweh) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:43 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000f63ca326$c802696e$7669dee2$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Henry Linneweh From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:44 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Richard Mortier) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:44 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000012be82f5$55614fe9$8339ec1d$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Richard Mortier From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:41 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Tom Taylor) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:41 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000f86b0a94$724bee87$752bf372$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Tom Taylor From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:42 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Hyunseog Ryu) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:42 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00006b4410d7$1d059b59$a373b2d2$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Hyunseog Ryu From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:45 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Matthew Black) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:45 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00002b95b10d$7811415c$41076759$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Matthew Black From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:35 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Josh Fiske) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:35 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00004e9f1104$bd7dce86$507a53df$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Josh Fiske From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:44 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Skywing) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:44 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000465f5da8$5a7ce6d5$8955de19$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Skywing From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:45 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jason Leschnik) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:45 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000207707d5$e6885ce0$06cca030$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jason Leschnik From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:45 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Felipe Zanchet Grazziotin) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:45 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000029e47709$05516b5d$ea32110f$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Felipe Zanchet Grazziotin From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:46 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jason Iannone) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:46 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000e5d7e912$d7402e42$c89a4c4d$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jason Iannone From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:45 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Brian Talley) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:45 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00005fcc9b69$c0a52453$47b54c70$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Brian Talley From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:46 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Bill Stewart) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:46 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00003a3925c2$9569440a$3c6b0efa$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Bill Stewart From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:42 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Dave Larter) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:42 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00008f321e5f$76160be8$86982ed4$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Dave Larter From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:43 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jamon Camisso) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:43 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00007a99ea61$f93c5734$dc654d9d$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jamon Camisso From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:46 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Wayne E. Bouchard) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:46 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000ef853e94$e345957e$8e9e95f1$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Wayne E. Bouchard From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:46 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Heath Jones) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:46 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000071e000dd$8d24d22d$f83a4727$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Heath Jones From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:47 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Henry Linneweh) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:47 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000374000df$094492c3$2fa46bcb$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Henry Linneweh From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:47 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Henry Linneweh) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:47 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000374000df$094492c3$2fa46bcb$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Henry Linneweh From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:47 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Henry Linneweh) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:47 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000374000df$094492c3$2fa46bcb$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Henry Linneweh From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:44 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Robert MacDonald) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:44 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000002cd05dc$b5b90fdb$6b3f38e1$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Robert MacDonald From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:44 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Robert MacDonald) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:44 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000002cd05dc$b5b90fdb$6b3f38e1$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Robert MacDonald From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:45 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Felipe Zanchet Grazziotin) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:45 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000c68230ae$4f461feb$26dc76f6$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Felipe Zanchet Grazziotin From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:44 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Tom Ammon) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:44 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00009e3933f1$4d0c2306$72611d12$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Tom Ammon From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:47 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Lamar Owen) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:47 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000d007fbca$db67b825$2bd4cf15$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Lamar Owen From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:46 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Howard C. Berkowitz) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:46 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000003e60682$9cf12deb$310003c1$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Howard C. Berkowitz From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:46 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Zaid Ali) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:46 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000c56f320c$971ef4d8$d2f84ef3$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Zaid Ali From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:47 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jason Lixfeld) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:47 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000d040c74c$8c77e23b$ca27a586$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jason Lixfeld From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:47 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jason Lixfeld) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:47 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000d040c74c$8c77e23b$ca27a586$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jason Lixfeld From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:47 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Michael Smiley) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:47 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000c7b03ebd$e582329e$c1cb9db5$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Michael Smiley From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:46 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Hyunseog Ryu) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:46 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000083b326a9$0b1fdf88$e237edba$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Hyunseog Ryu From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:46 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Phil Fagan) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:46 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00005d95d90a$2ae4d675$06cc84d7$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Phil Fagan From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:48 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Pete Crocker) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:48 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000046e78a84$1219afeb$f449bb11$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Pete Crocker From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:41 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (David Temkin) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:41 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00003a025204$dfe62af1$229dcb05$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read David Temkin From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:48 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Grant Ridder) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:48 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000a4ece6cb$2804c1b1$272ff562$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Grant Ridder From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:48 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Robert MacDonald) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:48 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000026353e54$7bd19a87$b3232b66$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Robert MacDonald From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:47 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Leo Bicknell) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:47 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000063561944$e194a93e$acfe9b1c$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Leo Bicknell From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:34 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Zachary Giles) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:34 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000aad647c8$4d579fea$20ee2551$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Zachary Giles From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:21 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Fred Baker) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:21 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00005451cc3c$239bdd68$d38dbbc2$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Fred Baker From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:46 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Salima Ait Meziane) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:46 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000a83078fa$9f34109b$d92da13b$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Salima Ait Meziane From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:49 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Sven Olaf Kamphuis) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:49 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000210eaffa$3f587e4e$aa0c8fba$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Sven Olaf Kamphuis --- El software de antivirus Avast ha analizado este correo electr?nico en busca de virus. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:44 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Sven Olaf Kamphuis) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:44 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000fd0d76ec$eaba5bad$a819cf14$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Sven Olaf Kamphuis --- El software de antivirus Avast ha analizado este correo electr?nico en busca de virus. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:45 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Josh Fiske) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:45 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000af138d3c$3e5ae302$beefb473$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Josh Fiske From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:48 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (JC Dill) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:48 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000d6fea71c$1ef71d6a$525df1f3$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read JC Dill From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:51 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Justin Wilson) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:51 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000fc28864d$7c52842a$6020a2cf$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Justin Wilson From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:48 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jeff Mitchell) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:48 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000d8a0b785$84f430f7$3fd748a7$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jeff Mitchell From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:51 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Heath Jones) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:51 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000c051f84f$f9e4eb02$2243c83d$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Heath Jones From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:53 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Merike Kaeo) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:53 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000635f242c$d1d70bc1$50e6d84a$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Merike Kaeo From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:47 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Zachary Giles) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:47 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000006ae084d$aceaec54$853a4e8f$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Zachary Giles From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:47 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Warren Bailey) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:47 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000a32cf9b7$edd55514$0c2cd187$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Warren Bailey From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:45 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jake Mertel) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:45 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00007c1a6617$728bcbc7$3b33cade$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jake Mertel From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:46 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Christian Koch) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:46 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000061aad28$132c13ea$a50e431e$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Christian Koch From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:51 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jason Lixfeld) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:51 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000726ebaee$df613ff5$5f6dc264$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jason Lixfeld From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:23 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Fred Baker) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:23 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000c76d7820$b866f4f9$7ad4dcd7$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Fred Baker From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:48 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Soucy Ray) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:48 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000dec25cc6$8e2d20c0$c161753f$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Soucy Ray From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:51 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (isabel dias) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:51 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000cf165128$8d223e09$44dd1c6e$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read isabel dias From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:50 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Patrick Shoemaker) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:50 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00000432e8fc$8a33a2e6$4960cf0a$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Patrick Shoemaker From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:54 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Merike Kaeo) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:54 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00000778fe21$e5d58bfe$4f94245a$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Merike Kaeo From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:52 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Pete Crocker) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:52 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00008dc10415$905cccc3$a0d1531e$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Pete Crocker From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:50 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Borchers Mark M.) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:50 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00004f0c0ed8$87a63cb4$49323515$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Borchers Mark M. --- El software de antivirus Avast ha analizado este correo electr?nico en busca de virus. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:47 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Owen DeLong) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:47 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000f893b85b$40e6f52c$76b75656$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Owen DeLong From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:47 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Akyol Bora A) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:47 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000bced24f8$d781fc0e$a4d7c2f9$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Akyol Bora A From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:48 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Dave Larter) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:48 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00001704b329$5273e224$ebeaae1f$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Dave Larter From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:52 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Ryan Finnesey) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:52 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00003b550f7d$f39cafc3$9e5e3634$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Ryan Finnesey From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:52 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Ray Sanders) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:52 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00008c2b3ddf$9c1b2b3c$8449966a$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Ray Sanders From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:54 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (steve pirk egrep) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:54 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000a24838e6$0d344b72$bf7f267c$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read steve pirk egrep --- ??E???????? ????????????????????????? https://www.avast.com/antivirus From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:46 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (tom scholl) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:46 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00003f6f7c76$df746412$915174df$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read tom scholl From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:55 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Merike Kaeo) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:55 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000050b01949$27c17b7a$a81449b5$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Merike Kaeo From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:52 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Phil Fagan) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:52 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000a3e22ee6$3ae6e553$bf5be76d$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Phil Fagan From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:53 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Brian Talley) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:53 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000553ac32e$6820f416$8194d133$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Brian Talley From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:53 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Leo Bicknell) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:53 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000fb73da8b$382fdabe$e02dfc33$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Leo Bicknell From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:55 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Ray Sanders) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:55 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000fc0c93fe$a596d218$437d53f4$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Ray Sanders From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:53 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Warren Bailey) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:53 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000044212d9a$883c25a8$ee732a7b$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Warren Bailey From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:48 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Leo Vegoda) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:48 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000ab15d253$6534b07a$44c31bab$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Leo Vegoda From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:26 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Fred Baker) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:26 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000008fc3e66$5b46f4a9$b0ac142a$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Fred Baker From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:53 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (JC Dill) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:53 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000099babe9a$68a33438$23b69f5b$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read JC Dill From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:53 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Mills Charles) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:53 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000085eb89f3$b89ca34f$15d31ebe$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Mills Charles From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:51 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Richard Graves RHT) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:51 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000017426dba$856c858c$bbd4f51b$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Richard Graves RHT From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:49 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Leo Vegoda) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:49 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000029f6fb85$c0b33064$b1568cdc$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Leo Vegoda From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:51 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Tony Thornton) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:51 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000ce9b7d3a$64019b43$46a322e0$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Tony Thornton From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:53 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Salima Ait Meziane) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:53 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00007c6ab0a0$643a7cd1$0bd61ff5$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Salima Ait Meziane From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:55 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jason Biel) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:55 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000048c44155$5a94aa68$ec27ab9d$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jason Biel From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:40 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Zachary Giles) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:40 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00001e363386$fbac2c46$6d68d3c1$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Zachary Giles From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:56 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Heath Jones) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:56 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00001aaf1dd3$12a9bc1a$169e18c4$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Heath Jones From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:48 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Vinny Abello) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:48 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000442b59ca$ea9f9122$f393b070$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Vinny Abello From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:47 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Leo Vegoda) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:47 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000fce30c14$f01b8664$66ca2078$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Leo Vegoda From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:56 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Eric Wieling) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:56 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00007851e8ce$35e5d7db$393e51a3$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Eric Wieling From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:54 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Soucy Ray) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:54 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000bae4ce7d$a3796421$2a3f4254$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Soucy Ray From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:53 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Leo Vegoda) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:53 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000f172f816$7ef85b30$c473841e$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Leo Vegoda From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:48 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Gary E. Miller) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:48 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00009873bc05$8bf7f317$5f84f795$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Gary E. Miller From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:55 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (isabel dias) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:55 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000013373bfd$1c1f86d1$a90e5835$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read isabel dias From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:58 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Lamar Owen) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:58 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00002fa6aa25$d8af7583$402686d9$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Lamar Owen From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:58 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (jamie) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:58 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00006cb01542$055f2419$8ac2df34$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read jamie From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:43 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Masataka Ohta) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:43 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000fb02f655$c3946395$1821c0e0$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Masataka Ohta From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:55 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Pui Edylie) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:55 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000554af10a$56ef8c16$988e1a85$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Pui Edylie From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:51 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Christophe Lucas) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:51 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000fca3f40e$41e5bdc9$e31938dd$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Christophe Lucas --- El software de antivirus Avast ha analizado este correo electr?nico en busca de virus. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:59 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Heath Jones) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:59 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00009431b506$085d3895$8d01ca1e$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Heath Jones From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:53 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jake Mertel) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:53 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000084267ec6$7032cdb4$eabf2c00$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jake Mertel From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:57 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jeff Mitchell) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:57 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000029132925$fdfb646f$d4acf41a$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jeff Mitchell From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:55 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Pui Edylie) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:55 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000554af10a$56ef8c16$988e1a85$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Pui Edylie From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:57 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Richard Barnes) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:57 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000f6e300e9$4853c868$640ce82b$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Richard Barnes From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:58 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Leo Bicknell) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:58 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000aba37bfd$893ed1d0$0a524482$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Leo Bicknell From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:52 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Joshua William Klubi) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:52 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000007b9e9a8$1a863bbd$58bd9a4c$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Joshua William Klubi From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:58 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Sven Olaf Kamphuis) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:58 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00007b903188$bda22fb2$6ddfcd2e$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Sven Olaf Kamphuis --- El software de antivirus Avast ha analizado este correo electr?nico en busca de virus. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:54 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Steve Meuse) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:54 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000d109e806$78308ec8$4af0cb3f$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Steve Meuse From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:55 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jason Lixfeld) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:55 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000d2c78499$532f88da$af7fc53c$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jason Lixfeld From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:01 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (steve pirk egrep) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:01 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00005ba588e7$12e8fca9$87ba87c9$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read steve pirk egrep --- ??E???????? ????????????????????????? https://www.avast.com/antivirus From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:55 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Dave Larter) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:55 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00002eb0c757$45a6eb72$98dada7b$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Dave Larter From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:59 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Borchers Mark M.) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:59 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000a46fb331$67f21b14$a5995d5c$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Borchers Mark M. --- El software de antivirus Avast ha analizado este correo electr?nico en busca de virus. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:49 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Bill McGonigle) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:49 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000ad90b9cf$de452343$70d8ecf1$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Bill McGonigle From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:58 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Soucy Ray) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:58 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00006dc79a69$e084512c$27c9c903$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Soucy Ray From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:59 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Mikael Lind) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:59 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00002651cfcc$17c2420a$5a23e4f0$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Mikael Lind From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:00 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Tom Taylor) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:00 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000005417ee6$109b6670$668718fa$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Tom Taylor From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:04 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (steve pirk egrep) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:04 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00003415d5e8$99b4fd26$2056ea41$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read steve pirk egrep --- ??E???????? ????????????????????????? https://www.avast.com/antivirus From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:03 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jason Lixfeld) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:03 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00006e7d742d$351dd4e0$468e7dda$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jason Lixfeld From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:03 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Nathan Eisenberg) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:03 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000ce1c40cf$0dfc1897$bbf80b93$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Nathan Eisenberg From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:04 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Brian Talley) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:04 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000d9d38eda$3fc6075e$1708e793$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Brian Talley From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:02 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Howard C. Berkowitz) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:02 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000025effc45$7085e883$4d74681b$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Howard C. Berkowitz From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:02 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Howard C. Berkowitz) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:02 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000025effc45$7085e883$4d74681b$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Howard C. Berkowitz From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:01 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Patrick Shoemaker) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:01 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000ed9980e7$35b09f81$5679bdad$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Patrick Shoemaker From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:06 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (George Wes) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:06 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00007b89db75$a8c7eb26$8d3f3ef2$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read George Wes From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:58 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Richard Graves RHT) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:58 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000c3f61cc3$0a7b54e1$e2e8536c$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Richard Graves RHT From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:00 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jake Mertel) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:00 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00002ee9acb4$99c4b292$e1b02865$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jake Mertel From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:04 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Zaid Ali) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:04 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000558a99dd$db3efd85$05648435$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Zaid Ali From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:02 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (virendra rode) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:02 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00007c6957c8$f2a273aa$b7c4f20a$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read virendra rode From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:02 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Nicolas Viers - Univ. Limoges) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:02 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00009a04399e$8466e1f4$d67dcecc$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Nicolas Viers - Univ. Limoges From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:06 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Arnold Nipper) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:06 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000056f6ee68$d3e3cfe7$bc147c99$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Arnold Nipper From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:02 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Cary Wiedemann) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:02 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00000629d823$1723967c$037f5b1e$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Cary Wiedemann From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:04 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (George Michaelson) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:04 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000129bbef9$3b7c3746$315a92b9$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read George Michaelson From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:01 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Christophe Lucas) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:01 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00003155b910$2a69f8ea$c253d9e4$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Christophe Lucas --- El software de antivirus Avast ha analizado este correo electr?nico en busca de virus. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:57 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Merike Kaeo) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:57 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00005a0ed4b0$67daaefd$e0ee3015$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Merike Kaeo From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:04 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Thibaud Binetruy) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:04 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000e4867603$9bb42c75$75a41ef8$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Thibaud Binetruy From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:03 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Livingood Jason) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:03 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00004c48945e$3f2957d6$382973aa$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Livingood Jason From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:00 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Josh Fiske) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:00 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000589334cf$3b918756$8986c2ed$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Josh Fiske From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:06 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jeff Mitchell) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:06 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000b2676a2d$08c9390a$6d3becc4$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jeff Mitchell From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:01 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Kain Becki B.) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:01 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000071215bfd$01a2c418$016f9d1c$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Kain Becki B. From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:01 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Joe Abley) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:01 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000786d7044$8b30bef4$1f7c2b12$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Joe Abley From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:02 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Mills Charles) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:02 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00002cf88222$926fb322$b9c239a3$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Mills Charles From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:06 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Tom Ammon) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:06 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000e6d10a3a$9dc3e897$a9c2e056$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Tom Ammon From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:07 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Mark Kosters) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:07 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000cc5e71ca$93f4aa34$c1775f0a$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Mark Kosters From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:58 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Thibaud Binetruy) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:58 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000073590877$f0053e68$c16a9571$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Thibaud Binetruy From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:00 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Livingood Jason) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:00 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00006fdc81f8$1d136017$09061d05$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Livingood Jason From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:56 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Shumon Huque) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:56 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000217b78bb$08a38792$c45b93f6$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Shumon Huque From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:03 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Dave Larter) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:03 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00005296915e$94631325$3d2b19bd$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Dave Larter From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:06 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Akyol Bora A) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:06 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000043edc2bb$63e5cfa6$789067cb$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Akyol Bora A From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:36 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Frdric) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:36 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000077256f8$816750e3$6d57f13f$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Frdric From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:10 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Truman Boyes) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:10 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000028b80373$7daf76d1$8c582724$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Truman Boyes From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:04 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (George Wes) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:04 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000097421375$3fc46410$e3240517$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read George Wes From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:07 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Warren Bailey) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:07 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000019d5d6d6$9634a2f0$fb219330$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Warren Bailey From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:55 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Eric Wieling) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:55 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000076901ccf$5c53c360$03634096$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Eric Wieling From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:06 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Bill Bogstad) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:06 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00001bd6cfc2$99a2ab60$db367f0e$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Bill Bogstad From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:08 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Brian Talley) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:08 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00007bad276d$cb675e3f$e0d1d335$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Brian Talley From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:08 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Brian Talley) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:08 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00007bad276d$cb675e3f$e0d1d335$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Brian Talley From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:02 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Shumon Huque) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:02 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00005061489a$2ff41b67$5e39bedb$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Shumon Huque From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:02 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Ryan Finnesey) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:02 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000c58b2d99$ccedf145$083079bd$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Ryan Finnesey From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:01 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Akyol Bora A) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:01 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00000822a792$473cd77a$0fde12be$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Akyol Bora A From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:07 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Nicolas Viers - Univ. Limoges) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:07 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00005fb8b242$d3c6d8aa$13525c88$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Nicolas Viers - Univ. Limoges From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:07 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Ryan Finnesey) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:07 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000f745ca99$66bdd7e3$2ec308d0$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Ryan Finnesey From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:00 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Ravi Pina) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:00 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000064c6d0c4$6bcb4124$79c403c5$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Ravi Pina From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:04 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Mark Kosters) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:04 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000338ddec0$a6d2928d$d0ecbd00$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Mark Kosters From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:57 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Gary E. Miller) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:57 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000f36492fe$7b7321f9$4b4fe9a3$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Gary E. Miller From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:07 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Christian Koch) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:07 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000c7aba547$12e21d05$35af0eba$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Christian Koch From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:02 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Steven Kurylo) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:02 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000b32f8237$09f608df$e1f2606e$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Steven Kurylo From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:02 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Steven Kurylo) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:02 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000b32f8237$09f608df$e1f2606e$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Steven Kurylo From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:59 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Tom Ammon) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:59 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00005d3a4d47$c1db05d2$fc42a655$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Tom Ammon From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:08 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Charles Richards) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:08 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000a460f67c$117aa7eb$5412bbc7$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Charles Richards From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:07 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Steven Kurylo) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:07 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000061ebe9af$69a693bf$d963d515$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Steven Kurylo From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:07 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Tom Taylor) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:07 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000264eedad$d22f7400$2245cb7a$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Tom Taylor From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:02 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Joshua William Klubi) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:02 -0700 Subject: {Spam?} Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000a2ddb352$0b1ffe37$6415a1ae$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Joshua William Klubi From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:10 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Leigh Porter) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:10 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000878cf729$5a6b1119$7f7330c2$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Leigh Porter From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:11 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Truman Boyes) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:11 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00007c226d85$e0531e33$8dec34ef$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Truman Boyes From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:57 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Vinny Abello) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:57 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00007e75830b$5fd2700e$b5d12aa1$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Vinny Abello From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:55 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Michael K. Smith - Adhost) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:55 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000b64d51e0$527b3b7a$dcb38a75$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Michael K. Smith - Adhost From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:08 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Leigh Porter) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:08 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00008b6ee962$3d972f11$7b43a2fc$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Leigh Porter From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:05 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Mills Charles) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:05 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000d569fa1e$8819e32f$834da301$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Mills Charles From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:10 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Gavin Pearce) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:10 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000ccc39361$dee20df5$7cf25bc9$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Gavin Pearce From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:09 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Tom Ammon) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:09 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000c06153c4$4d0d63c3$474176d8$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Tom Ammon From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:04 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Cary Wiedemann) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:04 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00004cda35f4$1b20a3e8$53a326cc$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Cary Wiedemann From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:09 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Patrick Shoemaker) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:09 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00003bf3e186$bf55e90c$bc23efbd$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Patrick Shoemaker From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:08 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (George Wes) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:08 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000942e6a44$2278c80c$dece61a6$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read George Wes From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:39 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Seth David Schoen) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:39 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00005bab876b$90c1518c$177027e9$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Seth David Schoen From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:01 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (George Michaelson) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:01 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000d1b86b4c$1c1e8651$2d8f6c40$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read George Michaelson From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:10 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Mark Kosters) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:10 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000089aaf0b7$40dd1d8b$c9587b73$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Mark Kosters From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:12 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Truman Boyes) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:12 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00003a0c7372$baf3564f$6dce4e2c$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Truman Boyes From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:08 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Elmar K. Bins) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:08 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000075f20452$1e02d58e$abdcd177$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Elmar K. Bins From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:10 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jeff Mitchell) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:10 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000dcd8d3fd$c55d0e3a$fa093664$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jeff Mitchell From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:09 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Thomas York) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:09 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00002a8532f3$25027287$95de5f95$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Thomas York From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:10 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Stefan Fouant) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:10 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00004235270e$9e7c840c$bbb58847$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Stefan Fouant From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:10 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Stefan Fouant) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:10 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00004235270e$9e7c840c$bbb58847$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Stefan Fouant From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:10 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Michael Holstein) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:10 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00004fd17a9c$e2968f29$25ece548$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Michael Holstein From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:01 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Matthew Huff) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:01 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000a609f831$76b795e0$8ffc252e$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Matthew Huff From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:10 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Akyol Bora A) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:10 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00003d00a2ce$204e64b8$2df184ec$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Akyol Bora A From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:11 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Shaw Matthew) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:11 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000069c4c04$3c616451$0db5c35b$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Shaw Matthew From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:11 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Lorens Kockum) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:11 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000d29b2c27$8cd73589$11e573f1$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Lorens Kockum From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:13 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Lorens Kockum) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:13 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000dce51b1f$c1019dfb$c65827cd$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Lorens Kockum From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:13 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Philip Dorr) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:13 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000c4cc0b71$48a36c88$3470586c$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Philip Dorr From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:12 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (jamie rishaw) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:12 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000098eb0c11$100a31e2$f796a774$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read jamie rishaw From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:11 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Brian Talley) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:11 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000db82f626$aaa730c0$c410c6b7$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Brian Talley From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:11 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Brian Talley) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:11 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000db82f626$aaa730c0$c410c6b7$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Brian Talley From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:09 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Marcello Azambuja) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:09 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000f14a7d19$8d34c3af$0ab47c53$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Marcello Azambuja From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:59 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (David Temkin) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:59 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000cc6738f6$aab50e1a$46c7becf$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read David Temkin From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:13 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Salima Ait Meziane) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:13 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000cd06c193$6e58001b$846cf263$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Salima Ait Meziane From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:07 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (steve pirk egrep) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:07 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00003669a7db$dd04c6f3$6c77665c$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read steve pirk egrep --- ??E???????? ????????????????????????? https://www.avast.com/antivirus From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:12 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Ryan Finnesey) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:12 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00006184bfd5$02019fc4$4ae74dc8$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Ryan Finnesey From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:09 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Zaid Ali) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:09 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00009518c1ec$f3c8495d$031cd322$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Zaid Ali From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:08 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Salima Ait Meziane) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:08 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00001b48ac43$6a648c01$6fd003d4$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Salima Ait Meziane From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:08 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Pui Edylie) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:08 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000fb89004a$8be342fe$c7a3ea74$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Pui Edylie From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:14 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (b.g. white) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:14 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000033b0dcd7$b1512e3b$a2afc0d9$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read b.g. white From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:17 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Lorens Kockum) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:17 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000031b9a814$6c8fd1b7$fc6e3c3a$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Lorens Kockum From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:14 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Mark Andrews) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:14 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000080c73cea$f3f7949d$33f02b31$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Mark Andrews From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:14 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Mark Andrews) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:14 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000080c73cea$f3f7949d$33f02b31$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Mark Andrews From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:16 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Bill Bogstad) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:16 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00005e969f3e$cf476453$d9a77979$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Bill Bogstad From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:16 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Brian Keefer) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:16 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00004c9a6de9$f02a44d3$c1706b99$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Brian Keefer From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:14 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Cutler James R) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:14 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000af91b645$249613d0$e2533f72$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Cutler James R From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:14 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Marcello Azambuja) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:14 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00000aab793a$763f5a6e$6828f0a9$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Marcello Azambuja From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:17 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Roy) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:17 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00001ecba475$6e20cd35$276fdd8b$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Roy From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:17 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Alan Bryant) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:17 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000a1fe3f27$9468a9e7$d0fb5578$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Alan Bryant From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:15 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Darren Bolding) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:15 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000271d5bd8$2bf8380c$e8ebde48$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Darren Bolding From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:18 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Sander Steffann) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:18 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000183b87f3$5ad12477$69ccbbf4$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Sander Steffann From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:17 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Pui Edylie) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:17 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000019bad189$997281f4$065535ef$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Pui Edylie From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:14 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (virendra rode) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:14 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000045f69c91$1ef85055$d3f48a7a$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read virendra rode From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:18 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Mark Kosters) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:18 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000c8f063a3$c27511c0$36098641$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Mark Kosters From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:07 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Nathan Eisenberg) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:07 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000db994fe9$fea6d021$37dabbf1$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Nathan Eisenberg From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:15 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Shaw Matthew) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:15 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000c0a3a167$e0f09564$051008fd$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Shaw Matthew From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:17 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Shaw Matthew) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:17 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000f802af6e$89830cee$f3f066fa$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Shaw Matthew From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:20 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Shaw Matthew) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:20 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000b792747a$c9f28e60$65d65fef$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Shaw Matthew From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:16 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Brian Talley) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:16 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000fc0a02af$4ca4e066$27d3ef45$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Brian Talley From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:20 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Sander Steffann) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:20 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00008023ef54$1084c427$915c626c$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Sander Steffann From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:14 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Paul Stewart) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:14 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00002ece1f82$8c5eaaaf$a907f38b$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Paul Stewart From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:19 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Philip Dorr) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:19 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000035733ff5$9ec6e16c$6b2236b2$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Philip Dorr From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:17 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Zaid Ali) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:17 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000005976695$048c842f$d5b77ba1$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Zaid Ali From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:17 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Kain Becki B.) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:17 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00005a6974c7$f6414ce0$c2cd78d2$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Kain Becki B. From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:13 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Tom Pipes) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:13 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000a81cc003$72e30522$a4b02362$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Tom Pipes From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:18 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Marshall Eubanks) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:18 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000f978e9d9$7303cdf8$541c6121$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Marshall Eubanks From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:21 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Shane Ronan) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:21 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000c5295a2d$09dd87b2$7358dd5e$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Shane Ronan From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:20 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Shane Ronan) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:20 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000e9a67860$f9e841e4$496ebd9b$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Shane Ronan From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:18 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Richard Barnes) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:18 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00003a5a83fa$ed93623d$1fb7b95d$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Richard Barnes From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:49 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Frdric) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:49 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000fe3ac04d$c3da7678$ac711bbc$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Frdric From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:18 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Elmar K. Bins) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:18 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000febd7fc4$18f54426$bf3ad872$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Elmar K. Bins From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:15 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Richard Graves RHT) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:15 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000008337ed2$c8ef92a1$a096af68$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Richard Graves RHT From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:11 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (George Wes) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:11 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000dff34d5d$e4e7d606$9cb258bd$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read George Wes From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:18 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jeff Mitchell) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:18 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000075c91244$70d8da19$421088d3$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jeff Mitchell From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:20 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Patrick Shoemaker) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:20 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000148c7bd0$12b2b61a$d66adfbe$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Patrick Shoemaker From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:20 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Arnold Nipper) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:20 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000314d8935$7d325f29$05c3d993$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Arnold Nipper From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:20 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Thomas York) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:20 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000a7e477ed$f7c6cfdf$9529f01b$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Thomas York From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:22 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Sander Steffann) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:22 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000c214cc7c$cf539b9f$cf5a3ce7$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Sander Steffann From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:20 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Gavin Pearce) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:20 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000085819d8$fe6a6688$c86a1b9e$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Gavin Pearce From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:23 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Shane Ronan) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:23 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000f6652dd6$96263c7f$29bd917b$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Shane Ronan From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:20 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Pui Edylie) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:20 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000a2ea36a4$34b20fdb$830ef23b$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Pui Edylie From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:21 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Brian Keefer) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:21 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000062d2eafe$af3857aa$b0a550ae$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Brian Keefer From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:21 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Mark Kosters) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:21 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00004f20d04b$b22b5406$a945839e$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Mark Kosters From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:18 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Christian Koch) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:18 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000006a0599$fada0314$81308a85$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Christian Koch From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:14 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jake Mertel) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:14 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000444e93bb$81fc85a8$d0903b2d$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jake Mertel From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:20 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Pui Edylie) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:20 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000a2ea36a4$34b20fdb$830ef23b$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Pui Edylie From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:19 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Nicolas Viers - Univ. Limoges) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:19 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00005fb98ea1$96a2043d$58927099$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Nicolas Viers - Univ. Limoges From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:20 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Bill Bogstad) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:20 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000050f07113$a469e809$9e8995bc$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Bill Bogstad From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:17 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Ryan Finnesey) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:17 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00008b54d85a$2657af54$78ac9a89$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Ryan Finnesey From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:19 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Josh Fiske) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:19 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000ef851e97$fc80dfef$3ad73b38$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Josh Fiske From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:20 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Martin List-Petersen) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:20 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00002a78b904$cd28bd20$fc6d07be$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Martin List-Petersen From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:47 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Joe Freeman) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:47 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00004eedf95f$5bae4faf$4350e9ad$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Joe Freeman From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:22 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Marshall Eubanks) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:22 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000656769c8$f9eef5bf$1517ceee$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Marshall Eubanks From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:06 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Joshua William Klubi) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:06 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000042825e74$20282624$8658e722$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Joshua William Klubi From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:15 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Tim Chown) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:15 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00006a973c49$c6ec4d45$b3362ea0$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Tim Chown From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:49 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Mounir Mohamed) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:49 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000084f69c6e$51160417$006a2813$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Mounir Mohamed From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:47 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Joe Freeman) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:47 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00004eedf95f$5bae4faf$4350e9ad$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Joe Freeman From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:21 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Brian Talley) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:21 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000005fb5d89$ba1b4499$22355182$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Brian Talley From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:21 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Brian Talley) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:21 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000005fb5d89$ba1b4499$22355182$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Brian Talley From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:21 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Borchers Mark M.) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:21 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00001f3fd979$ad6c8b39$dcefc55d$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Borchers Mark M. --- El software de antivirus Avast ha analizado este correo electr?nico en busca de virus. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:47 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Joe Freeman) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:47 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00004eedf95f$5bae4faf$4350e9ad$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Joe Freeman From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:20 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (virendra rode) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:20 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000cd6f4f21$ead5148f$e1d81bf9$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read virendra rode From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:23 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Alan Bryant) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:23 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000c73439d9$37d81b21$9f7c7a46$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Alan Bryant From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:20 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (jamie) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:20 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000082a5df23$a2ec0339$4da60a77$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read jamie --- Avast ????????????????? http://www.avast.com From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:15 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (David Schwartz) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:15 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00000e46910d$e251d4dc$af81d082$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read David Schwartz From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:50 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (steve pirk egrep) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:50 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00009cb2a541$af7be50d$72668691$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read steve pirk egrep --- ??E???????? ????????????????????????? https://www.avast.com/antivirus From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:24 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Shumon Huque) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:24 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000b7395bdd$53a3119a$fcc4b951$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Shumon Huque From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:23 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Owen DeLong) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:23 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00006514b74b$b2a6c0cc$28b9187a$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Owen DeLong From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:23 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Konstantin KABASSANOV) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:23 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000064882ba8$9753d325$34824066$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Konstantin KABASSANOV From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:22 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Shaw Matthew) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:22 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000022705d33$4ccfa47d$d3f49081$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Shaw Matthew From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:21 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Tim Chown) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:21 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000877534b6$f3af97be$a5622a85$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Tim Chown From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:22 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jorge Amodio) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:22 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000be0d8265$4c7621a9$63361b4f$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jorge Amodio From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:24 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Thomas York) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:24 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00007919f053$69f0f695$aa66e1d7$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Thomas York From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:10 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Dave Larter) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:10 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000d0597f0c$51f8759e$d3b9e2a3$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Dave Larter From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:25 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Philip Dorr) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:25 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000bba35cd7$93c0bc6a$1e35ae15$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Philip Dorr From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:24 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Paul Stewart) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:24 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000035e74c97$b52b0bbd$5bcf97c6$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Paul Stewart From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:23 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Richard Graves RHT) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:23 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000bbabc753$f952642d$17fc2ff8$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Richard Graves RHT From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:24 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Tim Chown) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:24 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00003e1f8855$9e276d79$9f8cb88e$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Tim Chown From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:24 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Mikael Lind) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:24 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000e7ea9d88$81eb15f3$82b51120$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Mikael Lind From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:27 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Beat Vontobel) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:27 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000fed8e0a3$45f95e89$604a66d1$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Beat Vontobel From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:26 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Owen DeLong) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:26 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00006168471d$02d3cfd7$8be6aaac$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Owen DeLong From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:26 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Zaid Ali) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:26 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000c02913f0$35ca3656$c3d293cc$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Zaid Ali From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:21 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Mark Newton) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:21 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000d7c3a3b2$ba525de2$b6bb2b49$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Mark Newton From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:14 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (David Temkin) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:14 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00006204e62d$a15bbe2f$53ae18c9$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read David Temkin From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:27 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Arnold Nipper) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:27 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000069e56872$4da5be5f$b53ef1ba$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Arnold Nipper From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:27 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Shumon Huque) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:27 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00003130a329$98aac569$4b0fe50e$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Shumon Huque From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:25 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Leigh Porter) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:25 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00009af79b58$862a47e7$59f06d30$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Leigh Porter From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:27 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Arnold Nipper) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:27 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000069e56872$4da5be5f$b53ef1ba$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Arnold Nipper From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:15 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Gary E. Miller) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:15 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000071a98bec$3ded51eb$794fdcf6$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Gary E. Miller From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:29 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Alan Bryant) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:29 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000e6435d62$88ec706b$679bbba0$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Alan Bryant From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:25 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Ryan Finnesey) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:25 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00003668d3ef$95212abd$3f1637f8$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Ryan Finnesey From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:20 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Naslund Steve) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:20 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000a0a83ace$a9c29e7d$aa3f30b8$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Naslund Steve From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:24 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jake Mertel) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:24 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000006721c5$7700f75a$3f6b108b$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jake Mertel From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:28 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Philip Dorr) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:28 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00002f44ec83$00513658$181b1812$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Philip Dorr From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:25 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Josh Fiske) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:25 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00009c3b05d2$74b0447c$75c75112$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Josh Fiske From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:27 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jeff Mitchell) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:27 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000881af467$43a112ad$0e536f15$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jeff Mitchell From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:29 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Cutler James R) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:29 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000009f96358$e5917c2d$854c5420$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Cutler James R From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:27 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Nicolas Viers - Univ. Limoges) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:27 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000c71588d0$2eb3144e$10bfbbfb$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Nicolas Viers - Univ. Limoges From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:27 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (adam vitkovsky) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:27 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000040fccf2$62b1b3eb$dfe010eb$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read adam vitkovsky From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:26 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Zaid Ali) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:26 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00008c00152d$eebde814$4f29f032$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Zaid Ali From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:28 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (jamie rishaw) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:28 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00000039eaae$75b1ae51$6b1a5a03$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read jamie rishaw From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:28 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Matthew Petach) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:28 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000d13eb4a6$8080eac3$eeb0ded4$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Matthew Petach From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:29 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Marshall Eubanks) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:29 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000b9c2ed49$0824470a$5b84a1b7$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Marshall Eubanks From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:30 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (TR Shaw) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:30 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000003aa912c$30c17356$730f1336$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read TR Shaw From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:28 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Shaw Matthew) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:28 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00009452f440$bb698bec$2d1c0020$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Shaw Matthew From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:28 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Dave CROCKER) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:28 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000591124de$ea946336$b09cae83$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Dave CROCKER From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:28 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Pui Edylie) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:28 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00006402c531$6aa67739$fb03d5b7$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Pui Edylie From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:30 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Arnold Nipper) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:30 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000043fcc1d1$07fdc47a$9517d36c$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Arnold Nipper From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:28 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Ken Gilmour) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:28 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000ee841a15$c9c0484f$b46db5d9$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Ken Gilmour From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:01 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Frdric) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:01 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000000ebbddc$b19fa99c$4cba58b5$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Frdric From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:30 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Arnold Nipper) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:30 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000043fcc1d1$07fdc47a$9517d36c$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Arnold Nipper From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:27 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Joshua William Klubi) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:27 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000f4b60f4b$ec2bd2f3$b0aedfaf$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Joshua William Klubi From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:28 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Tim Chown) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:28 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000aa72bdbf$3034a67d$d0db1db1$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Tim Chown From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:26 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Tom Taylor) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:26 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000d5e00de5$43a070f3$3c35bb79$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Tom Taylor From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:23 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Joshua William Klubi) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:23 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000b463c0a5$ce924c13$f78cd520$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Joshua William Klubi From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:30 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Kain Becki B.) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:30 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000bdf698d6$ebaf298c$d878bd02$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Kain Becki B. From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:33 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Alan Bryant) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:33 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000e73e311d$b3ae6f23$c9acd86a$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Alan Bryant From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:30 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Sbastien Gioria) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:30 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000e4cf0cf8$583e8fa0$9e104de6$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Sbastien Gioria From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:29 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Dorn Hetzel) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:29 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000f33acfc6$8433b2b4$5f15f05e$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Dorn Hetzel From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:59 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Suzanne Woolf) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:59 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000035295cd6$ed0cf769$bc099aae$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Suzanne Woolf From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:31 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (adam vitkovsky) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:31 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000b20bcc92$122868c7$f0a56f3f$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read adam vitkovsky From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:15 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Joshua William Klubi) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:15 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000025a6ed90$c0fba573$be50fa8c$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Joshua William Klubi From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:32 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (TR Shaw) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:32 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000c0c52c33$3324502b$54e2119d$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read TR Shaw From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:26 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Brian Talley) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:26 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000547a9e70$17e216eb$7be945d3$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Brian Talley From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:28 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Sean Donelan) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:28 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000029518874$df653860$1dbd78fc$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Sean Donelan From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:31 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (William Allen Simpson) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:31 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000c5d10e54$7a9d0e5c$f7d765c6$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read William Allen Simpson From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:32 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Brian Keefer) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:32 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000c09fab1e$dc0c1627$a858d38c$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Brian Keefer From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:29 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Mikael Lind) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:29 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000632c67c9$8c91d684$95aef9ab$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Mikael Lind From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:33 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Martin List-Petersen) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:33 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000bb8b2c99$601324bf$bd17a09a$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Martin List-Petersen From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:23 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (James Jun) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:23 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000a47cf894$44816ea7$fbbd786f$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read James Jun From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:31 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (George Michaelson) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:31 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00002d7b958e$fd807749$1c1edef7$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read George Michaelson From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:31 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Ryan Finnesey) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:31 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000eb999de0$54db077f$18695ed9$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Ryan Finnesey From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:32 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (jamie rishaw) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:32 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000031728e23$54b2cbc1$38b77284$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read jamie rishaw From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:31 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jeff Mitchell) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:31 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00002e6efbe6$ca853a12$9a8950ca$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jeff Mitchell From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:31 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Joe Abley) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:31 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000492d7e5e$7a139587$f60342f8$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Joe Abley From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:32 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Darren Bolding) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:32 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00005f71038c$dbb5caf6$adb5e111$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Darren Bolding From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:32 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Dave CROCKER) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:32 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000bc56ea5c$97497e54$553c0b4e$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Dave CROCKER From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:04 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Frdric) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:04 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00008fd1a9e4$9879200a$e802d5eb$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Frdric From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:28 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (David Schwartz) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:28 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000863c08e8$4aad46f6$16e371b2$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read David Schwartz From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:32 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Skywing) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:32 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000012779bf$7a751821$0533c0a6$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Skywing --- Bu e-posta vir?slere kar?? Avast antivir?s yaz?l?m? taraf?ndan kontrol edilmi?tir. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From nanog-bouncesjdenoyjdlabs.fr at nanog.org Sun Oct 25 01:36:34 2015 From: nanog-bouncesjdenoyjdlabs.fr at nanog.org (nanog-bouncesjdenoyjdlabs.fr at nanog.org) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:34 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00002ae0db9b$b4e5021b$723aa8d1$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read nanog-bouncesjdenoyjdlabs.fr at nanog.org From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:32 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Dave CROCKER) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:32 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000bc56ea5c$97497e54$553c0b4e$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Dave CROCKER From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:31 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Scott Spencer) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:31 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000de2e674e$023244a8$5f44126a$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Scott Spencer From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:26 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Vinny Abello) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:26 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000060a51985$9e94d52a$865d2951$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Vinny Abello From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:35 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Danny McPherson) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:35 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00003a2bd4cf$e7df6da6$feaa6419$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Danny McPherson From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:34 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Philip Dorr) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:34 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000386a1ebd$cc4d1f16$39c86112$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Philip Dorr From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:36 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Danny McPherson) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:36 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000097f0c921$85f967d9$8915a9a1$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Danny McPherson From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:28 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Bertrand ARQUILLIERE) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:28 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000fdbed291$809f9748$4564226b$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Bertrand ARQUILLIERE From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:33 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Martin Millnert) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:33 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000bdaae6a9$ac967a21$c502c9b7$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Martin Millnert From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:33 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Mark Newton) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:33 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000401c5804$c888677a$67ab27ea$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Mark Newton From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:06 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jeroen Massar) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:06 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000095908f0c$e7b29d01$5d625c1c$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jeroen Massar From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:33 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Pui Edylie) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:33 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000eac17cc7$51a8825c$f82a6686$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Pui Edylie From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:33 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Sean Donelan) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:33 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00007390fcbf$99e89aa7$340a8631$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Sean Donelan From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:33 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Sean Donelan) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:33 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00007390fcbf$99e89aa7$340a8631$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Sean Donelan From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:36 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Derek J. Balling) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:36 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000065fa6e41$9acbc5f0$52a8cf80$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Derek J. Balling From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:33 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Shaw Matthew) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:33 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000091e307a9$791fe8b0$afdc4fdd$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Shaw Matthew From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:35 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Shaw Matthew) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:35 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000f147c26a$dae1a972$545c15f4$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Shaw Matthew From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:31 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Dixon Justin) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:31 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000a3a2d43b$6caeaa61$bd09bed7$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Dixon Justin From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:31 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Joshua William Klubi) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:31 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00001d96592b$67648d0d$e4ef36a6$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Joshua William Klubi From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:26 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Gary E. Miller) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:26 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000b7e061af$5184d383$d0098ddb$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Gary E. Miller From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:39 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Kevin Blackham) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:39 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000f4c8350b$ec069c55$6f92d1d3$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Kevin Blackham From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:37 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Danny McPherson) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:37 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00009bf19fdb$90344872$f697cc3e$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Danny McPherson From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:36 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Gavin Pearce) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:36 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000e0a38099$adcd4c3f$7da6d97d$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Gavin Pearce From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:36 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Joe Abley) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:36 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00003c8ac139$6cddfce9$1d4492f6$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Joe Abley From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:35 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Nicolas Viers - Univ. Limoges) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:35 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000fce8d76e$8d65d308$cc30fd2c$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Nicolas Viers - Univ. Limoges From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:38 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Ken Gilmour) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:38 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00004fe687b3$4fe66f55$b65b97ec$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Ken Gilmour From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:35 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (adam vitkovsky) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:35 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00009f059bda$0c73264a$4d27fe61$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read adam vitkovsky From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:37 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Philip Dorr) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:37 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00005175e207$38e3dcea$254d7c5e$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Philip Dorr From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:34 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Christopher Morrow) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:34 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000063b4dfc5$d1181289$dcf491e6$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Christopher Morrow From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:59 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Mukom Akong T.) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:59 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00000c421faa$3b844bea$3779ac26$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Mukom Akong T. From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:36 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Ryan Finnesey) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:36 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000022bf2d53$725301cf$6637c273$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Ryan Finnesey From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:35 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Mikael Lind) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:35 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000047011993$ebf3ed40$7ef84198$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Mikael Lind From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:33 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Dixon Justin) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:33 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000d7912515$3f548b95$555a3cc9$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Dixon Justin From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:37 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Christian Koch) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:37 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000009f3aa49$814422e7$a9d4036a$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Christian Koch From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:38 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Danny McPherson) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:38 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000eb6734d6$3b93f989$fe244815$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Danny McPherson From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:33 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Tomas Podermanski) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:33 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00006e6929da$9af1cabd$73e848c1$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Tomas Podermanski From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:37 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Mark Scholten) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:37 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00001b7f692f$ce800a36$8a0a6f9e$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Mark Scholten From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:40 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Polar Humenn) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:40 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000689e8540$4901d50a$9d1604ba$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Polar Humenn From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:34 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Tom Pipes) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:34 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000074f5f3c8$571fa604$247d2cc1$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Tom Pipes From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:38 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Kain Becki B.) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:38 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000e73cc3f7$62dbfdf6$a032f2b5$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Kain Becki B. From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:38 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Kain Becki B.) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:38 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000e73cc3f7$62dbfdf6$a032f2b5$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Kain Becki B. From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:39 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Derek J. Balling) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:39 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00000c8500d9$34cdbf62$85fda272$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Derek J. Balling From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:39 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Sbastien Gioria) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:39 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000043d096d4$1363a45a$20d79f08$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Sbastien Gioria From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:39 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Owen DeLong) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:39 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00007dc7c2b1$2985f633$0f631daa$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Owen DeLong From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:41 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (TR Shaw) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:41 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000ba2a352d$402cded3$15b3c118$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read TR Shaw From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:40 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Philip Dorr) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:40 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00008e996a14$6a0a4684$70bd2cfb$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Philip Dorr From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:39 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (adam vitkovsky) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:39 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000071a10fde$2c7a33e8$2dfcaae6$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read adam vitkovsky From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:29 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Paul Timmins) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:29 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000eaad1ba3$d8d3d556$67f8b98a$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Paul Timmins From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:33 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Lela Bouzouad) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:33 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000d4394cb5$c3438a2f$cd9779ac$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Lela Bouzouad From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:39 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (b.g. white) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:39 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000089097d9c$e776f8c9$7092b854$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read b.g. white From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:42 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Beat Vontobel) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:42 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000318bde10$094a1e9e$d2406c40$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Beat Vontobel From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:37 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (David Schwartz) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:37 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000e3fd9f62$30803a4b$37269572$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read David Schwartz From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:38 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (virendra rode) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:38 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000bcb563e8$9f00d7d6$6f940c5f$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read virendra rode From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:41 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Mark Newton) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:41 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000008327148$1726cfa1$adcb0825$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Mark Newton From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:41 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Mark Andrews) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:41 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000404aeed3$dd494d71$61857abb$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Mark Andrews From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:41 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Mark Andrews) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:41 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000404aeed3$dd494d71$61857abb$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Mark Andrews From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:35 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jake Mertel) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:35 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000092323bf3$cd4adb21$11784363$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jake Mertel From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:41 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Dixon Justin) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:41 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00006c5ea71c$5d90230f$45270427$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Dixon Justin From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:36 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Richard Graves RHT) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:36 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000f8c19490$bca824d6$6989d5b0$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Richard Graves RHT From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:42 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Martin Hannigan) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:42 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000db29deba$a81c9107$70a189c5$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Martin Hannigan From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:45 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Phil Regnauld) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:45 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000e8b8efbc$5dd0d6ef$9f4ce615$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Phil Regnauld --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:43 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Tomas L. Byrnes) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:43 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00002f9ac6b2$3e45fe66$73103729$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Tomas L. Byrnes From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:43 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (adam vitkovsky) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:43 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000c1bee727$38c28af2$9ee178ee$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read adam vitkovsky From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:45 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (TR Shaw) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:45 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000ac196f0f$8b441658$240f065b$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read TR Shaw From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:41 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Michael K. Smith - Adhost) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:41 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00009bc2b213$6fa4d90f$b44ca6a3$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Michael K. Smith - Adhost From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:44 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (David Holmes) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:44 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000c22ee323$956577b1$64d63ebc$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read David Holmes From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:44 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (David Holmes) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:44 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000c22ee323$956577b1$64d63ebc$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read David Holmes From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:41 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Mikael Lind) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:41 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000045badae8$6c786143$5a72b3f9$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Mikael Lind From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:44 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (William Allen Simpson) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:44 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000c6ee8418$86a4bceb$7b3f72de$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read William Allen Simpson From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:41 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Christian Koch) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:41 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000c8ed206f$950e4b4e$e4a5bf63$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Christian Koch From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:46 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Phil Regnauld) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:46 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000626c3549$ba9a8af0$e5cac6f6$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Phil Regnauld --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:10 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Mukom Akong T.) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:10 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000006d79e7a$94d4dc7a$ef04c9fa$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Mukom Akong T. From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:40 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Tore Anderson) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:40 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00006509c50d$1fc303ab$80c295f0$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Tore Anderson This email has been protected by YAC (Yet Another Cleaner) http://www.yac.mx From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:37 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (James Jun) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:37 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00008519d14c$803f3ba0$467cddac$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read James Jun From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:40 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Tom Pipes) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:40 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00002e048386$d697e55e$d1e792c1$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Tom Pipes From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:46 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Ben Hatton) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:46 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000a5da759b$8c784a22$3c1b6106$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Ben Hatton From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:36 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Vinny Abello) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:36 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000097114e47$41484610$77c6a27d$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Vinny Abello From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:43 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Scott Spencer) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:43 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00002969b1d7$9b6402d0$389899ef$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Scott Spencer From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:45 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Mark Newton) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:45 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000c7574020$63c98b44$27830cc2$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Mark Newton From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:44 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Darren Bolding) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:44 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00002379ad71$bd7e92bc$91091219$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Darren Bolding From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:48 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Phil Regnauld) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:48 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00009bc5d364$9f10ad99$387652b8$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Phil Regnauld --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:36 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Gary E. Miller) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:36 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000063d660b5$b22cca8c$ea4b57c7$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Gary E. Miller From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:45 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Ryan Finnesey) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:45 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00000b375c11$d25f6ab2$877f8f79$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Ryan Finnesey From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:45 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Martin Millnert) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:45 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00000e5bb121$4b38eb97$08482ac7$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Martin Millnert From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:45 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Mark Andrews) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:45 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000d508ca46$930cf141$63d27442$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Mark Andrews From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:44 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Marcello Azambuja) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:44 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00001c6709f9$699efc85$23c3e0d3$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Marcello Azambuja From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:45 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Mark Andrews) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:45 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000d508ca46$930cf141$63d27442$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Mark Andrews From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:49 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Phil Regnauld) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:49 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000de94e6da$51474ffd$041b9b4e$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Phil Regnauld --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:47 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (David Holmes) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:47 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00005ec44f82$098539d7$5bdd8f4e$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read David Holmes From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:47 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Derek J. Balling) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:47 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000051bc9169$e7e26d0f$731aadba$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Derek J. Balling From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:17 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Gavin Pearce) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:17 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000f2356e6e$fba6648f$853138db$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Gavin Pearce From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:38 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Paul Timmins) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:38 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000240bf99b$358124c7$0cdbe395$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Paul Timmins From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:44 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (b.g. white) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:44 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00000a9e9488$9582b06e$4982361d$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read b.g. white From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:45 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Dixon Justin) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:45 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00006b2b6a92$9bab5041$15c5bd21$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Dixon Justin From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:49 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Tim Peiffer) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:49 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00008bc940ac$0cec38b5$7688bbcb$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Tim Peiffer From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:49 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Christopher J. Pilkington) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:49 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000e74e783b$857b7028$e2b88ca4$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Christopher J. Pilkington From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:33 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Franck Martin) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:33 -0700 Subject: {Spam?} Fw: new message Message-ID: <00001a4cb468$26c49ed9$fdc6c72a$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Franck Martin From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:47 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Christian Koch) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:47 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000049c6440a$8cc4887d$44d2ce51$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Christian Koch From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:49 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Martin Hannigan) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:49 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000dcb6ce3c$bd8f5514$085c0d2a$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Martin Hannigan From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:48 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (William Allen Simpson) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:48 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000020589a91$302bca76$d2f49f60$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read William Allen Simpson From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:42 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (bluecoat@rumeurpublique.fr) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:42 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000195215c2$2e02199a$b281b9f9$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read bluecoat at rumeurpublique.fr From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:46 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Scott Spencer) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:46 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000cb1dcda8$5ab3892e$8b2b2aa5$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Scott Spencer From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:47 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Mikael Lind) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:47 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000069e0fb2c$da50eac4$7ca743a4$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Mikael Lind From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:46 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Tom Pipes) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:46 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000aa7dee73$4409d533$363c6252$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Tom Pipes From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:48 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Darren Bolding) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:48 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000e1933b5c$197daa3c$c3a8692e$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Darren Bolding From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:52 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Phil Regnauld) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:52 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00009c3e67ac$a9b14819$b7596d6e$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Phil Regnauld --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:50 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Bill Bogstad) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:50 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000e23ae8fe$f43b6f2a$53f80bf8$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Bill Bogstad From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:50 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Dave CROCKER) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:50 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00005d4467e1$3872e7f9$143b2725$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Dave CROCKER From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:50 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Dave CROCKER) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:50 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00005d4467e1$3872e7f9$143b2725$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Dave CROCKER From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:46 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Ingo Flaschberger) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:46 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000394d0bcf$924987c6$c26594f3$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Ingo Flaschberger From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:48 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Tore Anderson) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:48 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000a18cb4dd$820d0e01$2e7c665a$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Tore Anderson This email has been protected by YAC (Yet Another Cleaner) http://www.yac.mx From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:54 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Phil Regnauld) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:54 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000334373e6$b355a754$4397d494$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Phil Regnauld --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:18 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Mukom Akong T.) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:18 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00008d056f86$bfa40703$a5a48863$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Mukom Akong T. From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:27 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Lela Bouzouad) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:27 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00008f9e5cd1$3c255437$2cd6b5c3$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Lela Bouzouad From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:52 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Beat Vontobel) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:52 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00008659b689$3d0c8fc7$d6da33af$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Beat Vontobel From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:51 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (William Allen Simpson) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:51 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00000f458727$6fbe8dd5$74d015e4$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read William Allen Simpson From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:50 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Scott Spencer) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:50 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000eb0d3f30$5763f81d$f782fbd4$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Scott Spencer From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:49 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Dixon Justin) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:49 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000081b09801$5c7682a9$5b159f79$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Dixon Justin From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:51 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (b.g. white) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:51 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000b69eab7c$7f1a5208$54d02e45$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read b.g. white From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:41 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Bertrand ARQUILLIERE) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:41 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000740b5413$cf43c954$e13e2a2f$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Bertrand ARQUILLIERE From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:51 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Mns Nilsson) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:51 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000fd0bda5d$c2eb1e62$2ae47b7d$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Mns Nilsson From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:53 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (David Holmes) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:53 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000a6179e07$c2a4e789$15f46f3c$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read David Holmes From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:41 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Bertrand ARQUILLIERE) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:41 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000740b5413$cf43c954$e13e2a2f$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Bertrand ARQUILLIERE From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:53 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Martin Millnert) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:53 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000e393ad90$a4fa6470$4e076074$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Martin Millnert From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:53 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Dobbins Roland) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:53 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000e096e281$d1510898$875ad09c$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Dobbins Roland From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:52 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Richard A Steenbergen) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:52 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00001bbd8c9b$d16f8966$29de7f04$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Richard A Steenbergen From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:52 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Richard Graves RHT) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:52 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000e00a84f6$9b6d873f$4beb30ee$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Richard Graves RHT From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:49 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Tomas Podermanski) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:49 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00004d749df0$48ea2597$da2e3895$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Tomas Podermanski From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:53 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (adam vitkovsky) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:53 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00002eee2017$4324ddf1$734d5401$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read adam vitkovsky From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:55 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Christopher J. Pilkington) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:55 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000949060e9$32e5fbbc$d8d928c5$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Christopher J. Pilkington From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:54 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Mns Nilsson) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:54 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00002c35f5d5$cb58f13e$4e0c2524$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Mns Nilsson From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:47 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (bluecoat@rumeurpublique.fr) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:47 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000668bf26a$3ca9ec93$3f99420a$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read bluecoat at rumeurpublique.fr From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:52 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Mikael Lind) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:52 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000ce44ae98$bf0c426f$c4212639$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Mikael Lind From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:51 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (joel jaeggli) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:51 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000c9cce78c$e1622570$4448a97d$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read joel jaeggli From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:53 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Lela Bouzouad) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:53 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000e88d865a$01d0e1ac$483c51ac$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Lela Bouzouad From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:52 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jens Link) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:52 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000bd44fe76$ec19c1b7$661f6482$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jens Link From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:52 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jens Link) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:52 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000bd44fe76$ec19c1b7$661f6482$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jens Link From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:54 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Bill Bogstad) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:54 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00007cde7eb0$1cddabb3$99537a5e$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Bill Bogstad From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:53 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Dixon Justin) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:53 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00000cbc8c47$d2298cad$1b2ef25a$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Dixon Justin From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:55 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Tomas Podermanski) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:55 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00000e36b9e7$cf3645bd$8e2d6bb2$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Tomas Podermanski From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:55 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (CJ) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:55 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00003f3ff374$7be809b9$4f0d1315$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read CJ From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:57 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Konstantin KABASSANOV) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:57 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00008a9c6b07$5bfb4bd5$4f6556f2$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Konstantin KABASSANOV From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:01 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Douglas Otis) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:01 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000402b11b6$84463af6$5c23eb9f$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Douglas Otis From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:58 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Leo Vegoda) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:58 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000cc869c27$03f54c2a$f221e7d1$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Leo Vegoda From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:01 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Michael Hallgren) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:01 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000bf24eb0a$bd326b7f$eca4bfe3$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Michael Hallgren From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:54 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Ingo Flaschberger) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:54 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000005beaa7c$73aa81ab$c05903c3$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Ingo Flaschberger From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:51 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (bluecoat@rumeurpublique.fr) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:51 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000fb95951c$15cc27a2$48f57a8d$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read bluecoat at rumeurpublique.fr From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:56 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (bluecoat@rumeurpublique.fr) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:56 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000f4f85dd1$a754b240$cdc7392c$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read bluecoat at rumeurpublique.fr From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:00 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (CJ) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:00 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000021c642a9$d15c93c1$c21d2e05$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read CJ From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:56 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Tom Pipes) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:56 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000020bce2a9$ea49c409$d11d232e$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Tom Pipes From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:58 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Mikael Lind) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:58 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000d8448a96$eb029e2d$6509f569$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Mikael Lind From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:58 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Lela Bouzouad) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:58 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000de926d8f$c9ed6ea7$8ad2fcef$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Lela Bouzouad From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:02 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Polar Humenn) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:02 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000049be1362$22941071$183278a8$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Polar Humenn From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:00 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Raj Singh) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:00 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000fbb12ee9$581042b2$6a2fec08$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Raj Singh From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:57 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jens Link) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:57 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000b3ca2b96$c70620d5$0e74f0af$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jens Link From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:57 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jens Link) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:57 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000b3ca2b96$c70620d5$0e74f0af$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jens Link From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:57 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jens Link) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:57 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000b3ca2b96$c70620d5$0e74f0af$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jens Link From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:01 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (David Holmes) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:01 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00009dd0ac39$0e0fae29$f11d0c95$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read David Holmes From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:57 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Richard Graves RHT) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:57 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00002f658bc1$7c90ad21$f1118d7d$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Richard Graves RHT From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:01 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (William Allen Simpson) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:01 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00001172a7ee$8ed6750b$b9b133f9$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read William Allen Simpson From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:03 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Joe Provo) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:03 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000073f3347c$a256e1dc$37b9b768$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Joe Provo From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:00 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Tim Jackson) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:00 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000006cf0f7a$591db89e$9d2a3788$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Tim Jackson From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:04 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Guillaume Urban) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:04 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00002114610b$ce799d5e$812e7caf$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Guillaume Urban From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:53 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Konstantin KABASSANOV) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:53 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000cf2eae06$ae0a0ee1$df5c8e5f$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Konstantin KABASSANOV From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:05 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Simon Leinen) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:05 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00008f2a6068$865f07b3$08b7b582$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Simon Leinen From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:04 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jack Carrozzo) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:04 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000c330f800$9ef69f63$765eb699$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jack Carrozzo From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:03 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (CJ) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:03 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000072c764f1$42138896$1731137f$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read CJ From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:02 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (b.g. white) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:02 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000f4a8096b$67a8de24$4d4c423f$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read b.g. white From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:03 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Dave CROCKER) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:03 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000dd9ecab1$38c3f6f1$e6e6d1f1$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Dave CROCKER From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:55 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jack Carrozzo) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:55 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00005ae51e98$9985fb93$452b63c4$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jack Carrozzo From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:03 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Tony Li) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:03 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000745be19e$206c693e$46e31a7d$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Tony Li From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:59 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Joe Provo) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:59 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000083227bd1$19560581$d173a07b$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Joe Provo From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:06 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (CJ) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:06 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00001dead0b0$74e6d4b8$de949554$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read CJ From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:05 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Marcello Azambuja) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:05 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000dcbe819f$d7851900$2c1b8260$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Marcello Azambuja From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:58 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Scott Spencer) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:58 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000060384fcf$604e3bf5$fea775d0$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Scott Spencer From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:01 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Tony Patti) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:01 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000071ff051$c188a419$469eb59d$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Tony Patti From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:45 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (David Schwartz) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:45 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000061126b12$20526c86$e4174e1f$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read David Schwartz From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:01 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Marcello Azambuja) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:01 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000093951c5$cf3c3c38$5b1abe3d$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Marcello Azambuja From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:59 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Richard Barnes) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:59 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000cb0250e9$e987cafb$1275aa0b$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Richard Barnes From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:53 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Shahab Vahabzadeh) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:53 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00002b6bb603$5bb2f1f8$e7494575$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Shahab Vahabzadeh --- Ph?n m?m Avast antivirus ?? ki?m tra virus cho email n?y. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:54 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Andrew Nusbaum) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:54 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000431078c9$474b32d6$5e848184$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Andrew Nusbaum From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:01 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Dixon Justin) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:01 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000ad90104e$5620a2c7$d3751d80$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Dixon Justin From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:57 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Dixon Justin) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:57 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000059256d3a$c7ce9810$831c8a23$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Dixon Justin From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:57 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Dixon Justin) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:57 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000059256d3a$c7ce9810$831c8a23$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Dixon Justin From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:00 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Tomas Podermanski) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:00 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00003071b9b5$1228b429$95b9f753$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Tomas Podermanski From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:05 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Dixon Justin) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:05 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00004a49f52b$396bd2de$b996b503$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Dixon Justin From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:57 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Dixon Justin) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:57 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000059256d3a$c7ce9810$831c8a23$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Dixon Justin From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:05 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Dixon Justin) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:05 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00004a49f52b$396bd2de$b996b503$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Dixon Justin From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:05 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Dixon Justin) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:05 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00004a49f52b$396bd2de$b996b503$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Dixon Justin From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:04 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Raj Singh) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:04 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000cf4b92f3$15217bd3$b9837100$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Raj Singh From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:05 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Richard Graves RHT) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:05 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000035a7eb5a$2fcea500$982819e6$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Richard Graves RHT From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:04 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Tomas Podermanski) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:04 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00001fa9e44c$587f0d08$b14ecb5a$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Tomas Podermanski From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:09 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Martin Barry) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:09 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000f61c6cd3$bd5d2fd8$ed01c05e$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Martin Barry From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:01 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Adrian Chadd) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:01 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000755f33bf$35b7c7d5$56ce62a7$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Adrian Chadd From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:09 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Tony Patti) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:09 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000b207ba0f$61dc0f8d$f79d3a43$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Tony Patti From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:56 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Gary E. Miller) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:56 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00008000e8b5$2995be91$4350224e$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Gary E. Miller From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:04 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (David Holmes) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:04 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000007fd25a1$32979561$a22ea754$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read David Holmes From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:06 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Tom Pipes) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:06 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000cbfb9b7b$4b679706$2ee420d8$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Tom Pipes From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:04 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (David Holmes) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:04 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000007fd25a1$32979561$a22ea754$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read David Holmes From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:08 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Konstantin KABASSANOV) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:08 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00006327d657$bde69362$abd1b1c1$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Konstantin KABASSANOV From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:07 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Guillaume Urban) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:07 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00008ba048eb$89871d5d$1a4ba710$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Guillaume Urban From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:08 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jack Carrozzo) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:08 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000c597bc7d$0df33125$9fcc6570$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jack Carrozzo From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:09 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Phil Bedard) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:09 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000ee110206$4579d9de$adec9aab$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Phil Bedard From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:07 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Rubens Kuhl) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:07 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00008a7fe857$fed0acfd$b07dc6c5$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Rubens Kuhl From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:05 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Zhao Ping) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:05 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00003f8ea5db$7e639d21$715b192d$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Zhao Ping From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:10 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (bluecoat@rumeurpublique.fr) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:10 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000084e48739$4f268114$e1fdfbb5$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read bluecoat at rumeurpublique.fr From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:11 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (joel jaeggli) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:11 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000314a5f96$ca769a99$79a58518$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read joel jaeggli From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:11 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Guillaume Urban) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:11 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00009761ecdc$94beb735$1335c375$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Guillaume Urban From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:09 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (CJ) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:09 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00004680afe1$a457a857$4d8f3778$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read CJ From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:12 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Joe Provo) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:12 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000cdbd6563$6b6e1bfc$b6dae0c7$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Joe Provo From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:12 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Tim Jackson) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:12 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000534ef8e2$a74a618e$f03bfb14$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Tim Jackson From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:09 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Dixon Justin) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:09 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00004b692da6$12e4eee6$9ab2a709$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Dixon Justin From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:09 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Dixon Justin) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:09 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00004b692da6$12e4eee6$9ab2a709$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Dixon Justin From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:08 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Lela Bouzouad) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:08 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00009b49a736$f81aeec8$05624120$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Lela Bouzouad From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:12 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Konstantin KABASSANOV) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:12 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000bc8a7098$156caea9$65719bc0$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Konstantin KABASSANOV From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:11 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Tony Patti) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:11 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000017e132d0$2703c8b8$f7dd6e55$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Tony Patti From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:11 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Rubens Kuhl) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:11 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00005193ed70$ca65e68a$1347d27a$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Rubens Kuhl From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:07 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Joe Provo) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:07 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000e8829b5c$199285f2$5b4eb3be$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Joe Provo From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:12 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (b.g. white) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:12 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00002846b146$734a2aef$cfbfb09d$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read b.g. white From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:10 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Ingo Flaschberger) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:10 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000039f66393$0296b1bb$1e84abb6$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Ingo Flaschberger From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:15 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Joel Jaeggli) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:15 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000b40cf40f$d653ad53$a67fe1f1$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Joel Jaeggli From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:11 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Bertrand ARQUILLIERE) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:11 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00002815b348$eb63f95a$535b3e00$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Bertrand ARQUILLIERE From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:06 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Vinny Abello) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:06 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000058143637$26cc6358$0575e334$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Vinny Abello From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:16 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Tim Jackson) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:16 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000beda69d6$d3ad3b21$360cca1a$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Tim Jackson From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:14 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Joakim Aronius) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:14 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000b86b56f2$a17e9e31$fe9c6194$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Joakim Aronius From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:16 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Joe Provo) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:16 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00005fa148c4$07f9d419$dc6d773e$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Joe Provo From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:15 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (joel jaeggli) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:15 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000013910343$d226a708$b8123f07$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read joel jaeggli From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:15 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Shahab Vahabzadeh) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:15 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000d1caca7f$8afcb503$24d7dd0d$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Shahab Vahabzadeh --- Ph?n m?m Avast antivirus ?? ki?m tra virus cho email n?y. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:13 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Naslund Steve) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:13 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000049a75454$5d2b9e08$500eb6a4$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Naslund Steve From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:18 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Joakim Aronius) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:18 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00000a676b0f$52ac88a1$69581215$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Joakim Aronius From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:16 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Marcello Azambuja) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:16 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000f3b6aedd$10d1972d$cb905fe9$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Marcello Azambuja From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:05 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (bluecoat@rumeurpublique.fr) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:05 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000cd1b0b12$aeab73a5$27b4a4b6$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read bluecoat at rumeurpublique.fr From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:17 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Stefan Fouant) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:17 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000e97424e8$9d1980a0$2eca55c8$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Stefan Fouant From kmedcalf at dessus.com Sun Oct 25 01:37:15 2015 From: kmedcalf at dessus.com (kmedcalf at dessus.com) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:15 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000ec40d234$1ebfcfba$e6f16070$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read kmedcalf at dessus.com From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:17 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Bertrand ARQUILLIERE) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:17 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000074070c04$9a63917b$7dfa8184$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Bertrand ARQUILLIERE From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:19 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Tim Jackson) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:19 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00004b2f8fb4$531470cd$e506cb1b$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Tim Jackson From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:17 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Bertrand ARQUILLIERE) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:17 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000074070c04$9a63917b$7dfa8184$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Bertrand ARQUILLIERE From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:19 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Rubens Kuhl) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:19 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00004da0140f$4e402008$17942127$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Rubens Kuhl From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:20 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Konstantin KABASSANOV) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:20 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000465a6a87$9b608a4f$ea35086f$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Konstantin KABASSANOV From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:18 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Ingo Flaschberger) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:18 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00002dc58182$b30a1ee1$6b35b7ad$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Ingo Flaschberger From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:25 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Tony Patti) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:25 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000078d0bb9b$d46009b0$4bcf9b5a$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Tony Patti From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:23 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Steve Meuse) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:23 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000ea376bf2$c9d7bd60$88120a02$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Steve Meuse From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:26 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Steve Bertrand) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:26 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000a3eef255$7034f892$f64def66$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Steve Bertrand From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:26 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Hannes Frederic Sowa) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:26 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00001efb8d5f$7487df5d$53748ab6$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Hannes Frederic Sowa From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:28 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Konstantin KABASSANOV) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:28 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000df5e56da$1d6d9eac$3d83f729$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Konstantin KABASSANOV From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:28 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Hannes Frederic Sowa) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:28 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00005643d456$3e8f66ee$e21b18ba$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Hannes Frederic Sowa From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:19 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Suresh Ramasubramanian) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:19 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000009c236ed$e5ed97b9$0d39272b$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Suresh Ramasubramanian From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:28 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Steve Meuse) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:28 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000b07a700e$d7005dab$f20f6f7c$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Steve Meuse From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:29 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Raj Singh) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:29 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00006ba11197$72ba9252$b650b92a$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Raj Singh From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:28 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Steve Meuse) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:28 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000b07a700e$d7005dab$f20f6f7c$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Steve Meuse From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:29 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Shahab Vahabzadeh) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:29 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000397368b5$bbf144b0$78f0ace2$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Shahab Vahabzadeh --- Ph?n m?m Avast antivirus ?? ki?m tra virus cho email n?y. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:22 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Bertrand ARQUILLIERE) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:22 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000078b08cde$7631efac$71f569bb$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Bertrand ARQUILLIERE From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:30 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Hannes Frederic Sowa) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:30 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000f314961a$c914a1db$ab4f5ac9$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Hannes Frederic Sowa From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:05 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Wilkinson Alex) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:05 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000a6526c5d$28bfa4fe$984f401e$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Wilkinson Alex From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:49 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Steven Bellovin) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:49 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000752a1d11$94ddb169$16c19f49$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Steven Bellovin From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:55 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Ross Annetts) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:55 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000a7257059$f65cbf51$99be0eb4$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Ross Annetts From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:09 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Marco Matarazzo) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:09 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000c722c20f$e2bb3091$bed4ac1b$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Marco Matarazzo From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:31 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Joseph Snyder) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:31 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000faa19507$d918f073$336fbc7e$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Joseph Snyder From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:31 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Joseph Snyder) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:31 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000faa19507$d918f073$336fbc7e$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Joseph Snyder From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:37 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (david peahi) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:37 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000054d132c4$7fb92522$098890dc$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read david peahi From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:36 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Erik Bais) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:36 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000021004fa3$bb1c7206$fd8f83ba$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Erik Bais From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:16 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Patrick Shoemaker) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:16 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00008fe6d94d$996ff6c6$4e374203$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Patrick Shoemaker From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:20 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Mikael Abrahamsson) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:20 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000034e17b52$4d28a8c2$dbe5fb6c$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Mikael Abrahamsson From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:25 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Richard Mortier) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:25 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000218aea11$81578fa4$293286f9$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Richard Mortier From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:21 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Thomas Mangin) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:21 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000f034dd0e$4998f539$9137f722$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Thomas Mangin From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:25 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Chris Hindy) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:25 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00003fe0bafb$26327a23$9fac1d37$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Chris Hindy From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:22 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Salima Ait Meziane) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:22 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00005c190875$fbdc0e74$8d8da660$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Salima Ait Meziane From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:25 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (John Lightfoot) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:25 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000824c4c03$a923ecac$65213de8$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read John Lightfoot From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:22 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (David Temkin) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:22 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000b908575c$1e9e7ea2$e6427138$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read David Temkin From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:28 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Nick Khamis) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:28 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000f88e0422$ddb9ae66$21066ae0$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Nick Khamis From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:33 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jason Iannone) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:33 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000af39290e$75092053$7ffb6298$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jason Iannone From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:32 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Manish Karir) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:32 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000031b7d105$a303e592$73663f02$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Manish Karir From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:35 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Mishka Jason) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:35 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00007179c576$9e70cc98$184e17f9$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Mishka Jason From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:33 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Mishka Jason) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:33 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00001e3a7e99$be82f012$03188686$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Mishka Jason From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:43 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Akyol Bora A) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:43 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000083e53a35$8a6b8f46$083a3207$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Akyol Bora A From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:43 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Grant Ridder) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:43 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00007d426980$711d464e$e8bae380$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Grant Ridder From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:42 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Owen DeLong) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:42 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00001cfbc512$e0b8eb00$e9c43464$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Owen DeLong From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:27 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Steve Meuse) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:27 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000088356b4f$25e6504f$41018693$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Steve Meuse From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:44 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Ricky Beam) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:44 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000bc4e7fb0$140cb6b0$d8433c9a$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Ricky Beam From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:52 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Leo Vegoda) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:52 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00008f2eb7ec$bc706f85$40539ced$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Leo Vegoda From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:50 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Leo Vegoda) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:50 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00001dea2ffe$448ddcb2$232e637d$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Leo Vegoda From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:52 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Joshua Eyres) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:52 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00007bcf093c$2a554b88$65a4d3ee$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Joshua Eyres From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:52 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Michael K. Smith - Adhost) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:52 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000032ed9d9d$a82a2ddc$edf26eae$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Michael K. Smith - Adhost From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:56 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Zaid Ali) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:56 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000971bfa2c$e516b3fb$c8988d41$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Zaid Ali From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:56 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Hyunseog Ryu) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:56 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000bc2504d9$10eb7e7b$40bac009$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Hyunseog Ryu From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:57 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (steve pirk egrep) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:57 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000024bd270a$70056a23$f3e04b20$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read steve pirk egrep --- ??E???????? ????????????????????????? https://www.avast.com/antivirus From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:52 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Josh Fiske) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:52 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000303a42de$01f1e38f$5a75e8eb$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Josh Fiske From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:54 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Ken Simpson) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:54 -0700 Subject: ***SPAM*** Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000b6a267be$a63b0448$9fb33023$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Ken Simpson From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:52 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Matthew Huff) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:52 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000b049804c$1190b366$479f2a94$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Matthew Huff From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:56 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Patrick Shoemaker) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:56 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00004707d9e4$a19a8466$53505027$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Patrick Shoemaker From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:58 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Lamar Owen) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:58 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00002fa6aa25$d8af7583$402686d9$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Lamar Owen From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:53 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Tom Ammon) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:53 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00004958a735$d69c967f$9dab27b5$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Tom Ammon From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:56 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (virendra rode) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:56 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00000f49b7ee$6cb8e5b2$a874cd6d$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read virendra rode From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:57 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Howard C. Berkowitz) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:57 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00007ecd45fe$c0e8f57d$6c858a2f$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Howard C. Berkowitz From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:59 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Ricky Beam) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:59 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00004794a5e9$addb94f6$80b96c59$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Ricky Beam From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:57 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (vijay gill) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:57 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000049c976e1$d7ed2871$79ee1c3a$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read vijay gill From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:02 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Thomas Kernen) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:02 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00006c1a2cb4$3ed1cda1$7899151a$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Thomas Kernen From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:04 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Lamar Owen) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:04 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000058f4eebb$2d6c132b$5a2fa266$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Lamar Owen From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:00 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Brian Keefer) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:00 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000044471651$bf4be9de$23e69ae7$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Brian Keefer From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:13 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Pui Edylie) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:13 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00003f2a13c8$6facb8a8$b962fbbc$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Pui Edylie From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:13 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Pui Edylie) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:13 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00003f2a13c8$6facb8a8$b962fbbc$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Pui Edylie From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:14 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Mark Kosters) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:14 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00004efd6f62$74b7a49c$edb006dc$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Mark Kosters From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:13 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Kain Becki B.) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:13 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000049fdbfc9$fa33de08$9636fdae$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Kain Becki B. From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:16 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Alan Bryant) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:16 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000fa652b67$52085ec4$e20726c6$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Alan Bryant From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:15 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Lorens Kockum) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:15 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000c45760c2$0394183c$3ce18c6c$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Lorens Kockum From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:14 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jeff Mitchell) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:14 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000550936fe$cf8eb7c7$978f87f0$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jeff Mitchell From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:14 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Stefan Fouant) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:14 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000eaf75043$b9971427$4c2c2c76$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Stefan Fouant From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:16 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (jamie rishaw) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:16 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000c34b3371$400860a1$151359bc$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read jamie rishaw From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:17 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (steve pirk egrep) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:17 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00008880de0f$b46bc11c$63cdb3b5$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read steve pirk egrep --- ??E???????? ????????????????????????? https://www.avast.com/antivirus From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:06 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Vinny Abello) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:06 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000005c4f81f$d852e095$05af5170$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Vinny Abello From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:14 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Joe Abley) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:14 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000dad20464$f6448dc2$e2a970a1$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Joe Abley From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:13 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Elmar K. Bins) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:13 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00007b6ba1e1$39e41c4c$90e29bb7$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Elmar K. Bins From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:32 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Derek J. Balling) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:32 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000ac4402a9$5b7d61c2$961df28e$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Derek J. Balling From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:31 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Nicolas Viers - Univ. Limoges) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:31 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00004746ce04$12f14e45$791a7eae$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Nicolas Viers - Univ. Limoges From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:15 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Shane Ronan) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:15 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000095c713e9$d42d94e8$a57969e3$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Shane Ronan From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:31 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Christian Koch) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:31 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00005efc1159$4000a357$ab3fcde8$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Christian Koch From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:06 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Gavin Pearce) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:06 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00001ab9d0e6$5318971b$32de9741$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Gavin Pearce From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:36 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Mark Andrews) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:36 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000e7c0c259$dcc79ecf$d7d3ca75$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Mark Andrews From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:36 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (David Barak) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:36 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000b967bd3c$31ef1051$c062747b$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read David Barak From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:34 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Sbastien Gioria) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:34 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000097c09af2$80b37bf4$2c03fbda$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Sbastien Gioria From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:37 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (David Holmes) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:37 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000050a350c5$26c45ce5$c5887ef4$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read David Holmes From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:37 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (David Holmes) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:37 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000050a350c5$26c45ce5$c5887ef4$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read David Holmes From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:38 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Mark Newton) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:38 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00000b46e2cb$526a264a$92c0765e$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Mark Newton From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:41 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Martin Hannigan) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:41 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000b2148de5$3f7d0274$efa98337$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Martin Hannigan From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:29 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jake Mertel) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:29 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00005fb52b33$1e62ddbe$a045e01f$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jake Mertel From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:40 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Tim Peiffer) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:40 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000c59034ec$f1a54ebc$1ca02048$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Tim Peiffer From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:42 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Owen DeLong) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:42 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000869f4519$5d4b1c49$e57c739f$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Owen DeLong From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:42 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Mark Scholten) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:42 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000014b36e9d$9c30c471$7d95bf92$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Mark Scholten From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:42 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Christopher J. Pilkington) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:42 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00007d31bb76$4c3b1314$00111cce$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Christopher J. Pilkington From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:42 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Christopher J. Pilkington) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:42 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00007d31bb76$4c3b1314$00111cce$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Christopher J. Pilkington From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:41 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Mark Andrews) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:41 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000404aeed3$dd494d71$61857abb$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Mark Andrews From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:48 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Martin Hannigan) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:48 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000e3f495d8$d6cc167a$3a13ce5e$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Martin Hannigan From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:48 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Ben Hatton) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:48 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000052866c0b$eb250d59$d1cc0e7e$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Ben Hatton From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:51 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Christopher J. Pilkington) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:51 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000043fbee25$88aa221b$8d87018f$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Christopher J. Pilkington From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:50 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (David Holmes) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:50 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000067187e99$8e95438f$9b484bd4$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read David Holmes From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:50 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (David Holmes) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:50 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000067187e99$8e95438f$9b484bd4$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read David Holmes From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:54 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Scott Spencer) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:54 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000056baa36b$612789dc$7b8e5975$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Scott Spencer From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:53 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Dixon Justin) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:53 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00000cbc8c47$d2298cad$1b2ef25a$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Dixon Justin From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:04 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Konstantin KABASSANOV) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:04 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00006bb7a386$b2c6a7c2$ed166f3f$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Konstantin KABASSANOV From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:02 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Scott Spencer) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:02 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00000b99ddec$81dcc8be$15602182$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Scott Spencer From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:03 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (jamie) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:03 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000773120dd$b821d8f6$791af45e$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read jamie --- Avast ????????????????? http://www.avast.com From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:04 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Wilkinson Alex) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:04 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000e1ad6515$f9f5aeb6$715486e0$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Wilkinson Alex From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:05 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Bertrand ARQUILLIERE) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:05 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000255fdf44$e5fd9344$d4c99eb4$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Bertrand ARQUILLIERE From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:07 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Andrew Nusbaum) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:07 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00005c520e60$a53fc77e$418a22a8$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Andrew Nusbaum From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:29 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Tim Jackson) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:29 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000426de3bd$517bdce3$30fbd00e$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Tim Jackson From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:24 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Vinny Abello) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:24 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000d20cf41d$9c1b6909$a8c8c7f7$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Vinny Abello From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:30 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Guillaume Urban) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:30 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000040ba15c3$a3bf8fec$9ae65137$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Guillaume Urban From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:06 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Wilkinson Alex) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:06 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000ca878348$603020fa$912fe4a2$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Wilkinson Alex From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:24 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (James Jun) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:24 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000c763be96$a8100e75$d02fd11e$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read James Jun From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:07 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Wilkinson Alex) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:07 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000bbdbad5a$99c1d9b7$c5367bc3$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Wilkinson Alex From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:34 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Raj Singh) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:34 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00007126ab79$fbee92e9$02c005ea$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Raj Singh From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:34 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Guillaume Urban) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:34 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000c98f167b$e225add0$9bd44bbc$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Guillaume Urban From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:29 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Andrew Nusbaum) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:29 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000f1effe76$f58257ce$bf77100b$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Andrew Nusbaum From kmedcalf at dessus.com Sun Oct 25 01:37:22 2015 From: kmedcalf at dessus.com (kmedcalf at dessus.com) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:22 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00009df57b99$90e12f8f$751ea589$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read kmedcalf at dessus.com From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:33 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Steve Meuse) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:33 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000e71bd606$dec64075$466066ea$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Steve Meuse From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:34 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Dan Wing) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:34 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00000a386c1b$83f0e4da$00e64228$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Dan Wing From LeBigotjtlebi at gmail.com Sun Oct 25 01:37:34 2015 From: LeBigotjtlebi at gmail.com (LeBigotjtlebi at gmail.com) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:34 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000050a587be$baa73c74$5710e104$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Le Bigot jtlebi at gmail.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:37 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Tore Anderson) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:37 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000cbe12ae1$9497b790$36c9732a$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Tore Anderson This email has been protected by YAC (Yet Another Cleaner) http://www.yac.mx From LeBigotjtlebi at gmail.com Sun Oct 25 01:37:37 2015 From: LeBigotjtlebi at gmail.com (LeBigotjtlebi at gmail.com) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:37 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000bea27cab$736006d8$b99b9df4$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Le Bigot jtlebi at gmail.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:39 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Dobbins Roland) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:39 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000b23203ab$e8387e8c$d08eaae8$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Dobbins Roland From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:39 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Shahab Vahabzadeh) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:39 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00009bb3f7cc$fe7287dd$18b56217$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Shahab Vahabzadeh --- Ph?n m?m Avast antivirus ?? ki?m tra virus cho email n?y. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:42 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Joakim Aronius) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:42 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00009efc7f08$c76930a7$80771e5e$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Joakim Aronius From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:38 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Raj Singh) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:38 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000964cf6f7$5e876819$e1376f03$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Raj Singh From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:42 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Raj Singh) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:42 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000533884e9$70e9be3f$24c786b3$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Raj Singh From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:42 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Fred Baker) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:42 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000838b1bae$7b45d124$6d95de53$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Fred Baker From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:44 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Dobbins Roland) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:44 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00000b4da595$7e03236b$ca4647d9$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Dobbins Roland From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:46 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Raj Singh) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:46 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000e9c14ea9$307745fe$c1b24f74$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Raj Singh From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:38 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (James Jun) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:38 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00003acce059$2f55bde0$02cea37d$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read James Jun From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:45 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Steve Meuse) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:45 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000051e7a206$9695035b$89a9a7c0$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Steve Meuse From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:45 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Steve Meuse) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:45 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000051e7a206$9695035b$89a9a7c0$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Steve Meuse From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:45 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Steve Meuse) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:45 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000051e7a206$9695035b$89a9a7c0$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Steve Meuse From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:42 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Andrew Nusbaum) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:42 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00002c4ba72d$3a55d36f$5f681838$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Andrew Nusbaum From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:51 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Cian Brennan) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:51 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000d49ec963$ce295750$ebccf6c9$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Cian Brennan From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:36 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Wayne E. Bouchard) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:36 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000f7ede99e$f1d1ea07$f2ea546b$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Wayne E. Bouchard From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:26 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Christopher Morrow) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:26 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000e7ead790$dad9725f$62bd2873$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Christopher Morrow From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:52 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jens Link) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:52 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00001fba7d1e$db036e43$a4f8e47e$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jens Link From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:56 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Cian Brennan) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:56 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000cdfd8327$f949516c$fc9b154a$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Cian Brennan From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:55 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Dobbins Roland) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:55 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00005461cb0f$6eb2b583$9a1f25e5$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Dobbins Roland From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:54 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jens Link) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:54 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000004c7a9a1$d8c0d727$e2e6f1cf$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jens Link From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:50 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (James Jun) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:50 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000b5534cfa$6f01ef69$098a1605$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read James Jun From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:57 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Michael Jager) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:57 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00002095ac23$ebcf0dac$2bf60746$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Michael Jager From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:38:00 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jay Moran) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:38:00 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00009d826dda$117eaee9$23c26a15$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jay Moran From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:38:02 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jay Moran) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:38:02 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000f363f36e$2593077b$ac030c88$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jay Moran From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:38:06 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jay Moran) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:38:06 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00005139d3c3$a5aaf2a1$fceec996$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jay Moran From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:38:02 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jens Link) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:38:02 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000052c4c463$12029770$04916b63$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jens Link From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:38:02 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (James Jun) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:38:02 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000620d3e6f$cbe9fec4$124477a1$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read James Jun From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:38:06 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jens Link) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:38:06 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000038a435c9$9d2b034b$47742023$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jens Link From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:38:10 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jay Moran) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:38:10 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000406055a7$f06a150b$421ef9a8$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jay Moran From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:38:07 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Michael Jager) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:38:07 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00004fe7b2c9$9b2ddc64$2aa7fab0$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Michael Jager From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:38:10 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Dobbins Roland) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:38:10 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000265ebc60$48aa2dfc$9acb4990$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Dobbins Roland From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:38:03 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Bjrn Mork) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:38:03 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000034be071a$219063f8$ba079f8c$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Bjrn Mork --- ????? ???"? ?? ????? ?????? ??????? ?? ??? ????? ?????-????? ?? avast. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:38:15 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jay Moran) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:38:15 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000ae6414df$f120a936$fa973f51$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jay Moran From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:38:13 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jens Link) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:38:13 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000056b980c8$5fc39bdb$f3ad606f$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jens Link From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:38:17 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jay Moran) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:38:17 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000933373b4$04717019$1df4b31c$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jay Moran From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:38:12 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (James Jun) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:38:12 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000084299170$8d7b5fde$36156a99$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read James Jun From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:38:19 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Clay Fiske) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:38:19 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000d147b181$78489305$926174d1$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Clay Fiske From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:38:12 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Bjrn Mork) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:38:12 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000a1e2a6ee$a0c541e7$a7b728e3$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Bjrn Mork --- ????? ???"? ?? ????? ?????? ??????? ?? ??? ????? ?????-????? ?? avast. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:16 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jeff Kell) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:16 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00001f3044f8$2b126772$794501d0$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jeff Kell From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:19 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jeff Kell) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:19 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00008123fe0a$88959b24$d8133469$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jeff Kell From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:38:21 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (James Jun) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:38:21 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00005f816820$41572a1a$a34b831d$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read James Jun From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:38:26 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Dobbins Roland) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:38:26 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000004ae35aa$c5e968eb$488cf1c2$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Dobbins Roland From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:38:25 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Rick Ernst) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:38:25 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000021b77990$338bfa31$daac366b$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Rick Ernst From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:27 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (George Herbert) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:27 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00004925fbdc$9f16d11b$ef5d228d$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read George Herbert From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:38:28 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Rick Ernst) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:38:28 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000bfb6ba22$b963abe5$c17cbbea$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Rick Ernst From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:23 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jeff Kell) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:23 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000004d0a433$76423a4e$a79912af$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jeff Kell From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:31 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (George Herbert) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:31 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000b1ed2a46$0df8c27b$e258728b$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read George Herbert From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:31 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (George Herbert) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:31 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000b1ed2a46$0df8c27b$e258728b$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read George Herbert From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:38:31 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Victor Kuarsingh) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:38:31 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000a5a964a9$2dfc6687$6ba25750$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Victor Kuarsingh From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:38:33 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Aaron Glenn) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:38:33 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <90f0204005f745efa6f9e3b563029b89@mail10.futurewins.com> Hey! New message, please read Aaron Glenn From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:38:35 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Victor Kuarsingh) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:38:35 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000fd4ba05a$576575ba$8d67abcd$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Victor Kuarsingh From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:28 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jeff Kell) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:28 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00001264154d$1f967e2b$af340046$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jeff Kell From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:38:37 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Aaron Glenn) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:38:37 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: Hey! New message, please read Aaron Glenn From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:38:37 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Aaron Glenn) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:38:37 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: Hey! New message, please read Aaron Glenn From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:38:30 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Bjrn Mork) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:38:30 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000a7da92f8$5133126d$bf3cc539$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Bjrn Mork --- ????? ???"? ?? ????? ?????? ??????? ?? ??? ????? ?????-????? ?? avast. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:32 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jeff Kell) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:32 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000021c07a3$7687dabc$03cf2313$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jeff Kell From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:38:41 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Aaron Glenn) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:38:41 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <10be1a72d4c1409e8ac86e071676b7b5@mail10.futurewins.com> Hey! New message, please read Aaron Glenn From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:38:42 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Aaron Glenn) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:38:42 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: Hey! New message, please read Aaron Glenn From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:38:43 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Victor Kuarsingh) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:38:43 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000ae0c7f79$e7983356$de67b018$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Victor Kuarsingh From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:38:56 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Hank Nussbacher) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:38:56 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00002a12e948$b949be7e$d4df45a7$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Hank Nussbacher From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:38:58 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Hank Nussbacher) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:38:58 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000aa55c5c6$8bc35151$bd0c8488$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Hank Nussbacher From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:38:57 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Xavier Nicollet) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:38:57 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000f83e6ffd$d947f715$80027444$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Xavier Nicollet From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:36 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Josh Fiske) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:36 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00003ca96d64$d8f832af$59fd08e0$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Josh Fiske From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:39:09 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Siegel David) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:39:09 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000b359346e$510d3e01$440c6833$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Siegel David From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:39:11 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Xavier Nicollet) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:39:11 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000fc092f25$00546c69$c199762e$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Xavier Nicollet From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:15 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Mns Nilsson) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:15 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000c75764a4$e440b68a$ce215506$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Mns Nilsson From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:39:59 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Paul Jasa) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:39:59 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000038214f37$1fd293dd$f6b504b7$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Paul Jasa From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:40:07 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Paul Jasa) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:40:07 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000008f43ac4$3ac58bc7$98e758d9$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Paul Jasa From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:40:04 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Paul Jasa) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:40:04 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00008df4fc1d$79d061ea$a06cea6d$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Paul Jasa From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:40:03 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Tyler Haske) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:40:03 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000dfb5362e$86dfcde7$42f47ded$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Tyler Haske From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:40:11 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Stephen Fulton) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:40:11 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000016e7489c$b99519a3$1b9fa7fd$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Stephen Fulton From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:40:13 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Stephen Fulton) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:40:13 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00005fa8c118$ef143730$4f9c3168$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Stephen Fulton From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:40:16 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Stephen Fulton) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:40:16 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00003fbbc871$95a4a683$1ac7a6ce$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Stephen Fulton From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:40:06 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Tyler Haske) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:40:06 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000045627c29$6d86c343$8ed0531d$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Tyler Haske From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:40:14 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (John van Oppen) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:40:14 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000db993a49$a02ea3b9$1b1d3334$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read John van Oppen From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:40:18 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Stephen Fulton) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:40:18 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000f405ddc1$f1cfa06b$9b99612c$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Stephen Fulton From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:40:18 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (John van Oppen) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:40:18 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00003329ad72$a65cb753$1e0ba28d$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read John van Oppen From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:40:19 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Tyler Haske) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:40:19 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000fc6baa33$0ec4859a$4b3229c9$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Tyler Haske From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:18 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Nickola Kolev) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:18 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000e94fd3a1$5004b15b$9fa455b6$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Nickola Kolev From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:33 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Nickola Kolev) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:33 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000571ed145$5c0f79d1$6fd0c5f2$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Nickola Kolev From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:02 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Nickola Kolev) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:02 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000c68e80b7$ec78c868$36184121$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Nickola Kolev From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:47 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Nickola Kolev) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:47 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000c5a63eb9$a492008e$8c730e0e$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Nickola Kolev From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:40 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Nickola Kolev) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:40 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000ec8f3529$6298409d$7c212f4c$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Nickola Kolev From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:12 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Nickola Kolev) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:12 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00000379042c$a1d3edc7$6e5b30d1$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Nickola Kolev From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:40:37 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Tyler Haske) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:40:37 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000ef9f67b3$b7013c36$928c12b0$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Tyler Haske From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:40:39 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Michael Brown) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:40:39 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000035e1ca08$173ad4f1$1c862e78$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Michael Brown From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:40:35 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Murphy Jay DOH) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:40:35 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000b9afcab7$d5e9f08d$7da655d9$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Murphy Jay DOH From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:41:00 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Paul Wall) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:41:00 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00002f24d6f4$b3ebb0cd$9ce09b7c$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Paul Wall From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:37:12 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Mns Nilsson) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:12 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000076d3bbb5$a4416606$75ef56ca$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Mns Nilsson From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:41:03 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Paul Wall) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:41:03 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000850b29f8$d0b6632a$8bbf4d40$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Paul Wall From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:41:09 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Paul Wall) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:41:09 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00003ee98772$1a8df494$ec1a4b28$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Paul Wall From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:41:11 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Paul Wall) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:41:11 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000631fe9eb$bac06c0a$e5138380$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Paul Wall From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:41:14 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Paul Wall) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:41:14 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000931ef6df$efdba9f7$eaa1aede$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Paul Wall From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:41:14 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Paul Wall) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:41:14 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000931ef6df$efdba9f7$eaa1aede$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Paul Wall From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:41:14 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Paul Wall) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:41:14 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000931ef6df$efdba9f7$eaa1aede$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Paul Wall From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:41:17 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Paul Wall) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:41:17 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000f84b55db$72b7dcae$0f73f01f$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Paul Wall From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:41:20 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Paul Wall) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:41:20 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000094ce7e19$0666ae32$97c5ed00$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Paul Wall From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:41:20 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Paul Wall) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:41:20 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000094ce7e19$0666ae32$97c5ed00$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Paul Wall From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:41:23 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Paul Wall) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:41:23 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000001e4f664$e6a65961$c2bcaa5d$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Paul Wall From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:41:26 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Paul Wall) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:41:26 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000ac6b6f3e$91e6b07b$f1e1d56d$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Paul Wall From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:41:26 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Paul Wall) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:41:26 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000ac6b6f3e$91e6b07b$f1e1d56d$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Paul Wall From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:41:28 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Dave Larter) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:41:28 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000be39f128$1bfb7f6b$e652ef49$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Dave Larter From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:41:30 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Dave Larter) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:41:30 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000079c53e7f$5be31878$cb62a9fa$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Dave Larter From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:41:32 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Dave Larter) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:41:32 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000021d56e48$9042c618$f9788c4e$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Dave Larter From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:41:40 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (William Herrin) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:41:40 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000be5d07b9$874178e2$ccc5e860$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read William Herrin From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:41:44 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Tony Hain) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:41:44 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00002bbfed00$9e33bcbe$310a0e49$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Tony Hain From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:41:41 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Steven Bellovin) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:41:41 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000082562c89$b7f59cf6$1ea25ebf$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Steven Bellovin From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:41:46 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (William Herrin) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:41:46 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000eacf28fe$ecf95fcf$1b89503e$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read William Herrin From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:41:51 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (William Herrin) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:41:51 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00004ac4bee4$1b656a5d$2f191a9e$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read William Herrin From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:41:53 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Ted Hardie) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:41:53 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000052df1982$53dca412$3c8bba01$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Ted Hardie From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:41:53 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Ren Provo) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:41:53 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000056f8ce92$9d12a0a9$a98b9237$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Ren Provo From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:41:50 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (David Coulson) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:41:50 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000c0a1a104$1f205497$70c7449b$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read David Coulson From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:41:47 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jerry Dixon) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:41:47 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000453300d9$570d9a3c$773d45b6$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jerry Dixon From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:41:58 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Tony Hain) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:41:58 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000a5debcf8$86d803c4$09fc1b78$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Tony Hain From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:42:00 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Tony Hain) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:42:00 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000e9be67c9$46a29f69$641dbb46$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Tony Hain From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:42:05 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Ren Provo) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:42:05 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000e541a72e$16797fd2$fbcafab7$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Ren Provo From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:42:06 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Ted Hardie) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:42:06 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000106ead3f$1ee4475f$da66cde1$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Ted Hardie From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:42:02 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Tony Hain) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:42:02 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00002fc0dc0e$f2001ead$1406b402$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Tony Hain From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:42:02 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jerry Dixon) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:42:02 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000886a85ca$e286df64$a7238303$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jerry Dixon From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:42:06 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jerry Dixon) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:42:06 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000078050ca2$53847cb2$c137059f$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jerry Dixon From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:41:54 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jerry Dixon) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:41:54 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000086ccf22b$6906ce27$75596399$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jerry Dixon From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:42:08 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Ren Provo) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:42:08 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00001e4bef05$b22edf84$6281afc0$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Ren Provo From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:42:12 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Ted Hardie) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:42:12 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00000bab80ea$e95b5ff3$0c9f7b94$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Ted Hardie From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:42:12 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (David Coulson) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:42:12 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000044d4df5f$bbe0cc13$92c7dea5$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read David Coulson From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:42:11 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jerry Dixon) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:42:11 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000d2214d6f$e6eb433f$06468c6d$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jerry Dixon From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:42:15 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jerry Dixon) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:42:15 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000aca7c302$f63e7791$83e44ebb$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jerry Dixon From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:42:25 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jerry Dixon) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:42:25 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000b3099066$077aaa1f$86821028$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jerry Dixon From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:42:29 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jerry Dixon) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:42:29 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000028a66366$60369d05$e30bc105$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jerry Dixon From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:42:35 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Adam Stasiniewicz) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:42:35 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000047ac0bb6$f4902f21$7e369577$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Adam Stasiniewicz From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:42:35 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Adam Stasiniewicz) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:42:35 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000047ac0bb6$f4902f21$7e369577$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Adam Stasiniewicz From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:42:47 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Attilla de Groot) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:42:47 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000028a52d5$33c470d7$00da99d0$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Attilla de Groot From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:42:49 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (William Herrin) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:42:49 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000b21aee4d$3be01191$6750c590$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read William Herrin From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:42:49 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (William Herrin) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:42:49 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000b21aee4d$3be01191$6750c590$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read William Herrin From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:42:45 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Adam Stasiniewicz) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:42:45 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000771aadb2$c38a7a52$058ccd3f$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Adam Stasiniewicz From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:43:06 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Attilla de Groot) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:43:06 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00001abe5c79$ea147302$8487234d$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Attilla de Groot From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:43:04 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Attilla de Groot) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:43:04 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000e87208bb$0ae90e43$93256ea9$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Attilla de Groot From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:43:09 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Phil Fagan) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:43:09 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000bb4fc0d2$23887999$7afb0383$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Phil Fagan From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:43:10 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Attilla de Groot) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:43:10 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000df15f0c6$2f1f4100$f028c0bd$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Attilla de Groot From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:43:15 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Simon Vallet) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:43:15 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00009fd42123$3f01db9f$1fd3d767$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Simon Vallet From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:43:08 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Tom Limoncelli) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:43:08 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00001994b625$505d7293$9cea7ebf$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Tom Limoncelli From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:43:18 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Simon Vallet) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:43:18 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000081b98626$f8b35eec$3afda4e8$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Simon Vallet From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:43:20 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Simon Vallet) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:43:20 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000080439607$54c5462d$190172a5$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Simon Vallet From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:43:17 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Tom Limoncelli) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:43:17 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000e71b912a$eaa7e3af$f564b190$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Tom Limoncelli From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:43:25 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Keith Medcalf) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:43:25 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000e6876397$52977dcb$9d621786$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Keith Medcalf From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:43:26 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Keith Medcalf) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:43:26 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00006e6c70f1$820c85de$007aecfc$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Keith Medcalf From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:43:29 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Keith Medcalf) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:43:29 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000044ce2a8d$bc2c855d$c6bc5ef5$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Keith Medcalf From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:43:30 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Keith Medcalf) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:43:30 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00000fc82936$96f39201$b9f14a4c$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Keith Medcalf From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:43:32 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Keith Medcalf) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:43:32 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000e31d5b23$6ad7e724$d5291a61$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Keith Medcalf From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:43:29 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Tom Limoncelli) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:43:29 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00002497b4e1$f8542666$25cd31db$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Tom Limoncelli From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:43:36 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Keith Medcalf) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:43:36 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000042aec796$075479a3$76f89ffe$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Keith Medcalf From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:43:39 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jay Ashworth) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:43:39 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000653d927e$3af6b2e5$c1218317$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jay Ashworth From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:43:51 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (matt kelly) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:43:51 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000d2e34619$9e9f04f9$d28b32bc$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read matt kelly From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:43:55 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (matt kelly) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:43:55 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000018d55a1e$943d651d$0adeea25$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read matt kelly From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:30 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Josh Fiske) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:30 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00008782b78e$59cb3099$c9a56529$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Josh Fiske From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:45:27 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Olivier Salan) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:45:27 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000031d3a2b0$b4ee5dcf$18ab6e45$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Olivier Salan From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:45:37 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Olivier Salan) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:45:37 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000d49caa19$b5e2df32$56f6ea9b$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Olivier Salan From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:46:18 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (james jones) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:46:18 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000875c6307$b8eb92c4$4ed8bd12$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read james jones From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:51 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Adam Vitkovsky) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:51 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000a10205aa$b34d42ee$83935b75$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Adam Vitkovsky From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:12 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Andre M. DiMino) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:12 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00003d8c2dcb$e50e0b6f$020da238$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Andre M. DiMino From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:00 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Matt Larson) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:00 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000c429ada4$2d0cfddd$e30c4a4a$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Matt Larson From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:57 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Dave Temkin) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:57 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000063bd9a1$83652c04$416807ac$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Dave Temkin From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:07 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Brandon Ross) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:07 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00006f2149bf$77d01c8b$60b6951d$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Brandon Ross From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:36:24 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Nathan Eisenberg) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:36:24 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00002d766549$6545bbdb$827bbd5b$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Nathan Eisenberg From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:30 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Vincent Duvernet Nolm Informatique) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:30 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000084f6bf50$533233c3$dca10379$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Vincent Duvernet Nolm Informatique From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:53 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Adam Vitkovsky) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:53 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000087e45f9$9da99155$6501bed1$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Adam Vitkovsky From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:22 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Sebastien Gioria) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:22 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000346a6004$04c1c824$482aaf5c$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Sebastien Gioria From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:06 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Manuel Marn) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:06 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000029cfbd84$e18b7730$6188e3b4$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Manuel Marn From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:07 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Marshall Eubanks) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:07 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00008e389bd5$2790d5f6$251d81c1$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Marshall Eubanks From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:15 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Andre M. DiMino) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:15 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000055eeadb4$bfc7b6a7$34b1866d$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Andre M. DiMino From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:07 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Manuel Marn) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:07 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000383a826d$99abd58a$20ceb727$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Manuel Marn From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:14 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Vincent Duvernet Nolm Informatique) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:14 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000dc942617$528efca4$dc8bd40c$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Vincent Duvernet Nolm Informatique From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:09 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Johan Lagrand) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:09 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00004053a2fa$76b05f20$0020f350$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Johan Lagrand From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:52 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Steve Haavik) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:52 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00008a4e57d3$30396473$967f39ae$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Steve Haavik From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:46:53 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (christian koch) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:46:53 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000062ee6c7b$4f1731ae$8f96c4ba$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read christian koch From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:46:57 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (christian koch) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:46:57 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000c5a0fb89$3145cdd7$ad4c2617$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read christian koch From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:01 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Manuel Marn) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:01 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00000f83b343$eb7beebd$deb07811$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Manuel Marn From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:08 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Glen Kent) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:08 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000f5103aeb$e1c89cb0$f387b6cf$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Glen Kent From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:24 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Ryan Dooley) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:24 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00000c5a1fe7$ef7ca739$b974ebf9$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Ryan Dooley From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:09 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Vincent Duvernet Nolm Informatique) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:09 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00000991aa45$b97456c2$494eee60$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Vincent Duvernet Nolm Informatique From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:56 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Dave Temkin) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:56 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00001f6d80b9$d638eb67$d9d637a1$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Dave Temkin From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:47:00 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (christian koch) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:47:00 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000043029380$1b010c4c$4af88dfe$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read christian koch From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:56 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Adam Vitkovsky) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:56 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000ca413faf$71b619b8$3a46360c$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Adam Vitkovsky From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:44 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Andre M. DiMino) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:44 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000027798462$fc88efa2$7210236b$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Andre M. DiMino From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:11 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Johan Lagrand) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:11 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000813d2c54$5d350f45$4b606900$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Johan Lagrand From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:44 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Schiller Heather A) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:44 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000a09198d7$71e1537f$d8c88623$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Schiller Heather A From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:42:23 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Justin Shore) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:42:23 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000e189fd83$17a9f123$b9ce1e56$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Justin Shore From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:32:55 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Dave Temkin) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:32:55 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00005e7cf2b6$bb66567a$33df8f09$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Dave Temkin From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:08 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Matt Larson) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:08 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000a6f2d41a$55fb310d$42a2a359$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Matt Larson From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:40 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Schiller Heather A) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:40 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000045115a4a$86dd87ac$45f54907$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Schiller Heather A From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:47:34 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Daniel Karrenberg) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:47:34 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00009b62d500$b6104499$7e6c499c$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Daniel Karrenberg From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:47:36 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Daniel Karrenberg) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:47:36 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000c59404ae$498e60db$a70e3951$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Daniel Karrenberg From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:47:45 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Mikael Abrahamsson) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:47:45 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000055f3aff9$a223ede4$bfac538a$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Mikael Abrahamsson From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:47:59 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Mikael Abrahamsson) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:47:59 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000015e4c83$be69551a$5123ab92$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Mikael Abrahamsson From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:48:03 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Rens) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:48:03 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00008df49c91$e6dcb382$ac3dd2e6$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Rens From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:49:35 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Scott Brim) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:49:35 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000ae13d4c6$5593efc5$345dd531$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Scott Brim From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:49:37 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Scott Brim) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:49:37 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000e8153c43$4bdef93c$b9f222a0$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Scott Brim From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:49:36 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Neil) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:49:36 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00002bec11aa$d443b6f8$2b4b0f29$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Neil From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:28:44 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Andreas Ott) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:28:44 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000d0847c6e$1759f591$618a83e7$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Andreas Ott From randy at psg.com Sun Oct 25 01:51:43 2015 From: randy at psg.com (Randy Bush) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2015 10:51:43 +0900 Subject: large joe job Message-ID: 250+ message joe job "new message" looks like scraped from nanog or some other infrastructure. randy From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:34:37 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Jeroen Massar) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:34:37 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00007ca9175a$19c9f336$0fab7f14$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Jeroen Massar From randy at psg.com Sun Oct 25 01:55:46 2015 From: randy at psg.com (Randy Bush) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2015 10:55:46 +0900 Subject: IGP choice In-Reply-To: <20151025013814.GA4816@gweep.net> References: <5629155D.3090206@yahoo.fr> <20151024224049.GA2414@besserwisser.org> <20151025013814.GA4816@gweep.net> Message-ID: >> i may have missed it, but one of my fave features of is-is is that it is >> a link-local non-ip protocol. hard to disrupt/attack remotely. > This is overlooked far too often IMNSHO. As is the comparison of > error/attack surface of "feature-rich" OSPF against "lean" IS-IS. i just wish the is-is protocol folk had not suffered from so much ospf feature envy and garbaged it up in a futile attempt to penetrate the enterprise. randy From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:19 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Matt Larson) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:19 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000c316a469$e123fb7f$e31450d3$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Matt Larson From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:40:28 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Tyler Haske) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:40:28 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000b1092b41$2cb283b6$dac81e1d$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Tyler Haske From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:41:20 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Paul Wall) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:41:20 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000094ce7e19$0666ae32$97c5ed00$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Paul Wall From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:44:40 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Dale W. Carder) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:44:40 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000b542bbbf$211678f9$7568cae0$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Dale W. Carder From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:44:43 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Dale W. Carder) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:44:43 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000b9fa2546$1fb7f2a6$4df307ae$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Dale W. Carder From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:45:22 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Olivier Salan) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:45:22 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000087d52aec$6f0a665d$9c38bc0a$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Olivier Salan From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:45:25 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Olivier Salan) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:45:25 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000416d7f17$16cbe3f4$b0ad926c$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Olivier Salan From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:29 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Rob McEwen) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:29 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000079f8b8a$64b01cb4$bc4dfe21$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Rob McEwen From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:16 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Matt Larson) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:16 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000017a2d215$2992e35d$6bcbdbfb$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Matt Larson From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:53:46 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Marc OLANIE) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:53:46 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000013c6e22e$5e211f1f$e70a7300$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Marc OLANIE This email has been protected by YAC (Yet Another Cleaner) http://www.yac.mx From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:21 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Matt Larson) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:21 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00008d17c64c$5795d4c7$6da4aaa9$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Matt Larson From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:02 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Matt Simmons) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:02 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000069e99c67$ac286815$a682066a$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Matt Simmons From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:54 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Steve Haavik) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:54 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000040c70b1c$d3fc0865$49c12a17$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Steve Haavik From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:13 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Matt Larson) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:13 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <000069f0fd24$0a8d6028$b38e6740$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Matt Larson From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:35:50 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Matthew Kaufman) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:35:50 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000a6759b68$da55f3aa$07390583$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Matthew Kaufman From parkerj17 at gmail.com Sun Oct 25 01:59:36 2015 From: parkerj17 at gmail.com (Justin Parker) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 21:59:36 -0400 Subject: Fw: new message In-Reply-To: <00004590a2b0$1107162c$af57c14a$@jdlabs.fr> References: <00004590a2b0$1107162c$af57c14a$@jdlabs.fr> Message-ID: Can we ban this please? On Oct 24, 2015 9:56 PM, "Adam Fields" wrote: > Hey! > > > > New message, please read > > > > Adam Fields > > From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:45:57 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (David Devereaux-Weber) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:45:57 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <0000c789a8d4$d35a983d$dbb5361c$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read David Devereaux-Weber From kmedcalf at dessus.com Sun Oct 25 01:38:12 2015 From: kmedcalf at dessus.com (kmedcalf at dessus.com) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:38:12 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00000c7f8a53$b615f241$e647dfb7$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read kmedcalf at dessus.com From surfer at mauigateway.com Sun Oct 25 02:39:38 2015 From: surfer at mauigateway.com (Scott Weeks) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 19:39:38 -0700 Subject: spam smackdown? Message-ID: <20151024193938.93377B49@m0086238.ppops.net> It looks like someone's trying to make a point. --------------------------------- New message, please read ----------------------------------- scott From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:53 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Alexander Harrowell) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:53 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00003d4a4201$c1ebc3d6$b9ad2058$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Alexander Harrowell From jdenoy at jdlabs.fr Sun Oct 25 01:33:44 2015 From: jdenoy at jdlabs.fr (Alexander Harrowell) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:33:44 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message Message-ID: <00004a0bbb73$822cb8f2$58def276$@jdlabs.fr> Hey! New message, please read Alexander Harrowell From rob at invaluement.com Sun Oct 25 03:04:02 2015 From: rob at invaluement.com (Rob McEwen) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 23:04:02 -0400 Subject: surge of "new message" spams hitting NANOG In-Reply-To: <000005f41de8$d6f29603$e85c403d$@jdlabs.fr> References: <000005f41de8$d6f29603$e85c403d$@jdlabs.fr> Message-ID: <562C46A2.9090507@invaluement.com> I just checked the all the spammy domains found on tonight's surge of spams that hit NANOG ...I checked them at http://multirbl.valli.org to see *which* DNS blacklists had each domain in the clickable link of each spam blacklisted. I did that check about an hour after those were sent, which was went I sat down at my computer and saw that. Here are the results: africancichlidphotos DOT com --listed on ivmURI --listed on HostKarma africameetsafrica DOT com --listed on ivmURI arpitshah DOT co DOT in --listed on ivmURI --listed on SpamHaus DBL dinkinsautoservice.com --listed on ivmURI --listed on HostKarma electronicstradingllc DOT com --listed on ivmURI hutsonlegal DOT com --listed on ivmURI --listed on HostKarma janatyachar.org --listed on ivmURI --listed on URIBL --listed on HostKarma marketingdeguerrilla DOT net --listed on ivmURI --listed on URIBL --listed on SURBL micheleruiz DOT com --listed on ivmURI --listed on HostKarma ogdenautomotiveinc DOT com --listed on ivmURI pilotsref DOT com --listed on ivmURI photographytoday DOT org --listed on ivmURI --listed on HostKarma probeautystudios DOT com --listed on ivmURI purefitnesslincoln DOT com --listed on ivmURI rosasmedley DOT com --listed on ivmURI --listed on HostKarma thomasanthonyguerriero DOT co --listed on ivmURI throughaglassdarkly DOT net --listed on ivmURI signranch DOT com --listed on ivmURI --listed on SpamHaus DBL stillbontechnology DOT com --listed on ivmURI studioprodutora DOT com DOT br --listed on ivmURI urbanfoodstrategies DOT com --listed on ivmURI As shown, I was happy to see that my own ivmURI blacklist was 21 for 21, and nothing else came close to that. (I also verified that ALL of the ivmURI listings happened BEFORE those spams were sent to NANOG). Keep in mind... this isn't a true measure of any one of those domain blacklists' overall effectiveness since this is just one tiny metric of one small type of very sneaky spam. So please don't think I'm trying to say that ivmURI is a replacement for SpamHaus' DBL list or SURBL or URIBL, etc... because those lists do likewise catch some spammy domains that ivmURI misses or hadn't gotten to yet. But it was still very satisfying to see this success. If it would help, I'll be happy to provide the operator of NANOG complementary access if so desired. PS - if the "hits" on other blacklists for these domains suddenly expands, that would be due to added listings which happened AFTER those spams were sent to the NANOG list. (and after I did this check) -- Rob McEwen +1 478-475-9032 From anthony.kasza at gmail.com Sun Oct 25 04:13:58 2015 From: anthony.kasza at gmail.com (anthony kasza) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 21:13:58 -0700 Subject: Uptick in spam Message-ID: Has there been a recent uptick in crap sent to the list or is it just me? Is there anything that we can do to filter these messages with junk links? -AK From trelane at trelane.net Sun Oct 25 04:37:01 2015 From: trelane at trelane.net (Andrew Kirch) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2015 00:37:01 -0400 Subject: SCNET Admin Message-ID: Is there an SCNET admin that follows this list? I've gotten about a hundred spam messages from nanog.org in the last 2 hours... perhaps you could nullroute it until they fix it. :) Andrew From josh at imaginenetworksllc.com Sun Oct 25 04:22:19 2015 From: josh at imaginenetworksllc.com (Josh Luthman) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2015 00:22:19 -0400 Subject: The spam is real Message-ID: Can we please get a filter for messages with the subject "Fw: new message" ??? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 From sakamura at gmail.com Sun Oct 25 05:05:58 2015 From: sakamura at gmail.com (Ishmael Rufus) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2015 05:05:58 +0000 Subject: Fw: new message In-Reply-To: <0000f5e7279d$f839360c$b111add7$@jdlabs.fr> References: <0000f5e7279d$f839360c$b111add7$@jdlabs.fr> Message-ID: omg. The horror On Sun, Oct 25, 2015, 12:04 AM Abdulkadir Egal wrote: > Hey! > > > > New message, please read > > > > Abdulkadir Egal > > From marcel.duregards at yahoo.fr Sun Oct 25 12:24:59 2015 From: marcel.duregards at yahoo.fr (marcel.duregards at yahoo.fr) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2015 13:24:59 +0100 Subject: IGP choice In-Reply-To: References: <5629155D.3090206@yahoo.fr> <20151022172535.GD3097@excession.tpb.net> <5629F2CD.5040305@yahoo.fr> Message-ID: <562CCA1B.7070307@yahoo.fr> Hi Matthew, Thank a lot for your answer. This help me to understand, and make more sense to me :-). Thanks, -Marcel On 23.10.2015 18:31, Matthew Petach wrote: > On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 1:41 AM, marcel.duregards at yahoo.fr > wrote: >> sorry for that, but the only one I've heard about switching his core IGP is >> Yahoo. I've no precision, and it's really interest me. >> I know that there had OSPF in the DC area, and ISIS in the core, and decide >> to switch the core from ISIS to OSPF. > > Wait, what? > *checks memory* > *checks routers* > > Nope. Definitely went the other way; OSPF -> IS-IS in the core. > >> Why spend so much time/risk to switch from ISIS to OSPF, _in the core_ a not >> so minor impact/task ? >> So I could guess it's for maintain only one IGP and have standardized >> config. But why OSPF against ISIS ? What could be the drivers? People skills >> (more people know OSPF than ISIS) --> operational reason ? > > I'm sorry you received the wrong information, > the migration was from OSPF to IS-IS, not > the other way around. > > Thanks! > > Matt > From trelane at trelane.net Sun Oct 25 14:58:51 2015 From: trelane at trelane.net (Andrew Kirch) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2015 10:58:51 -0400 Subject: test Message-ID: test From jimpop at gmail.com Sun Oct 25 15:35:51 2015 From: jimpop at gmail.com (Jim Popovitch) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2015 11:35:51 -0400 Subject: All in favor or..... Message-ID: All in favor of 9x5 network operations say aye. Geeze..... -Jim P. From johnl at iecc.com Sun Oct 25 15:22:33 2015 From: johnl at iecc.com (John Levine) Date: 25 Oct 2015 15:22:33 -0000 Subject: New version grepcidr 2.991 Message-ID: <20151025152233.18531.qmail@ary.lan> I have made some minor changes to and fixed some bugs in my updated version of grepcidr. It will now match CIDR ranges in the input, so you can look either for CIDRs that are completely contained in pattern ranges, or that overlap any pattern range. It handles both IPv4 and IPv6 addresses. The pattern matching uses a state machine that is quite fast, so it can handle large numbers of patterns and large input files. It's here: http://www.taugh.com/grepcidr-2 R's, John From marcel.duregards at yahoo.fr Sun Oct 25 12:50:54 2015 From: marcel.duregards at yahoo.fr (marcel.duregards at yahoo.fr) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2015 13:50:54 +0100 Subject: NX-OS as LSR router In-Reply-To: <56272FEC.1050905@yahoo.fr> References: <56272FEC.1050905@yahoo.fr> Message-ID: <562CD02E.5080406@yahoo.fr> related to the discussion about IGP choice, I had a quick look and found that NX-OS ISIS for IPv6 support is quiet recent. Was not supported on 5.x, but it supported on 7.x (2015). This might explain why not so many ISP use NX-OS. On 21.10.2015 08:25, marcel.duregards at yahoo.fr wrote: > Dear Nanog'er, > > Anybody using NX-OS on MPLS LSR and/or Edge-LSR ? > > We are evaluating the replacement of 7600 LSR routers. Our natural > carrier/ISP choice would go for XR everywhere, but we are also curious > about NX-OS on the core. > > Why not NX-OS for LSR and XR for Edge-LSR ? > > > Thank, > -Marcel From compaq963 at gmail.com Sun Oct 25 03:28:16 2015 From: compaq963 at gmail.com (Eric) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 20:28:16 -0700 Subject: Android lack of DHCPv6 purchasing decisions? Message-ID: <562C4C50.5000101@gmail.com> Hi All, I have a question for people that deal with mobile devices in enterprise. Have you decided not to purchase Android devices due to the lack of DHCPv6 support and consider Apple or some other vendor devices instead? It's been thrown around here, discussed and it's absurd so I'm curious what business purchasing decisions it has lead to now. Thanks From jra at baylink.com Sun Oct 25 16:11:54 2015 From: jra at baylink.com (Jay Ashworth) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2015 12:11:54 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Is anyone tracking the "Fw: New Message" joe-job spammer? Message-ID: <4888624.91.1445789514706.JavaMail.root@benjamin.baylink.com> Cause if so I got about 100 examples from last night I can send you if you think they'll help. :-) Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth Baylink jra at baylink.com Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100 Ashworth & Associates http://www.bcp38.info 2000 Land Rover DII St Petersburg FL USA BCP38: Ask For It By Name! +1 727 647 1274 From contact at winterei.se Sun Oct 25 18:22:19 2015 From: contact at winterei.se (Paul S.) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 03:22:19 +0900 Subject: Can someone do something about this "Fw: New message" spam? Message-ID: <562D1DDB.3040508@winterei.se> Hi, Can someone from the moderator team take a look? This has been going on for a while. From eliezer at ngtech.co.il Sun Oct 25 17:26:02 2015 From: eliezer at ngtech.co.il (Eliezer Croitoru) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2015 19:26:02 +0200 Subject: Spamhaus contact needed In-Reply-To: References: <561FE343.60506@cox.net> <561FF008.1030008@cox.net> <561FF085.2000302@cox.net> Message-ID: <562D10AA.4010105@ngtech.co.il> On 16/10/2015 22:07, Jason Baugher wrote: > I felt I should mention, Spamhaus was quick to respond to my email and gave > me excellent information on what was triggering the blacklisting. > Can you please share about it? Eliezer From dovid at telecurve.com Sun Oct 25 19:49:50 2015 From: dovid at telecurve.com (Dovid Bender) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2015 19:49:50 +0000 Subject: EyeBall View Message-ID: <1690436996-1445802591-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1432441011-@b13.c3.bise6.blackberry> All, I had an idea to create a product where we would have a host on every EyeBall network. Customers could then connect to these hosts and check connectivity back to their network. For instance you may want to see what the speed is like from CableVision in central NJ to your network in South Florida or the latency etc. I go large scale I wanted to know how much demand there was for such a service. Regards, Dovid From mkamal at noor.net Sun Oct 25 22:11:28 2015 From: mkamal at noor.net (Mohamed Kamal) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 00:11:28 +0200 Subject: [Discussion] MTU mismatch and impact of data-plane traffic Message-ID: <562D5390.80201@noor.net> Suppose you have the below network topology, where PE is connected to P1, P1 is connected to P2 and P2 is connected to GW, all through 1G links. [PE]-1500------------1500-[P1]-1600------------1600-[P2]-1500------------1600-[GW] The numbers represent the MTU values configured in the following order; PE's egress interface to P1, P1 ingress interface, P1 egress interface, P2 ingress, P2 egress and eventually GW ingress. Q1: What do you think would be the impact in terms of data-plane traffic (HTTP/s browsing, Video streaming etc), traversing this network, in the direction from the Internet and going to the PE router? My answer is: If there is a client running Win7 on a machine trying to access a web server out there, the TCP MSS would be adjusted to around 1260-1460 bytes depending on the Operating System's MTU value. Hypothetically, the first packet from the web server destined to the client would be 1460-bytes and will reach the ingress interface of the GW. The GW would receive it in the input_buffer of the ingress interface, strip off the Ethernet header, and move it to the output buffer of the egress interface whose MTU is 1600. Since the largest MSS is 1460, and there is always a one-to-one mapping between segments received from the TCP module and the packets constructed in the IP module, I believe that the largest IP packet would be 1480. GW would cram the Ethernet frame with the 1480-bytes of IP payload data and send it to the P2, which would in the other end, pass it on its way. Q2: However, what about larger MSS sizes? example; above 1500? and larges chunks of payload from a connectionless protocols that don't exchange MSS? UDP for example? or Google's QUIC (which is HTTP over UDP)? -- Mohamed Kamal From rob at invaluement.com Mon Oct 26 01:56:26 2015 From: rob at invaluement.com (Rob McEwen) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2015 21:56:26 -0400 Subject: surge of "new message" spams hitting NANOG In-Reply-To: <562C46A2.9090507@invaluement.com> References: <000005f41de8$d6f29603$e85c403d$@jdlabs.fr> <562C46A2.9090507@invaluement.com> Message-ID: <562D884A.4040202@invaluement.com> On 10/24/2015 11:04 PM, Rob McEwen wrote: > I just checked the all the spammy domains found on tonight's surge of > spams that hit NANOG oops. "all" didn't really mean "all". I had mistakenly though that I was getting all of them and that I was bypassing all spam filtering for NANOG messages. Turns out, I was instead doing minimal filtering... so that caused most of them to be blocked in my spam filtering. Then I ran those stats on what was really a small subset of the ones that slipped past that minimal level of filtering i was using on NANOG message. So my sample set may not have been representative of the whole. Sorry for the confusion. -- Rob McEwen From randy at psg.com Sun Oct 25 22:22:08 2015 From: randy at psg.com (Randy Bush) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 07:22:08 +0900 Subject: the crap mail flood and the nanog culture Message-ID: you might think that with all the committees, boards, badges, ... that there was an actual operator in the nanog resume building circle who would actually do something useful about the crap mail flood now into its second day. randy From jim at reptiles.org Mon Oct 26 02:14:56 2015 From: jim at reptiles.org (Jim Mercer) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2015 22:14:56 -0400 Subject: old message Message-ID: <20151026021456.GA74596@reptiles.org> as opposed to the new message, which is getting old. --jim -- Jim Mercer Reptilian Research jim at reptiles.org +1 416 410-5633 Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride!" -- Hunter S. Thompson From rwebb at ropeguru.com Mon Oct 26 01:59:40 2015 From: rwebb at ropeguru.com (Robert Webb) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2015 21:59:40 -0400 Subject: Does no one monitor the list on weekends? Message-ID: This spam is ridiculous! From mhoppes at indigowireless.com Mon Oct 26 02:17:04 2015 From: mhoppes at indigowireless.com (Matt Hoppes) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2015 22:17:04 -0400 Subject: new message In-Reply-To: <0000fe868ff3$d82527c4$2cd739fc$@jdlabs.fr> References: <0000fe868ff3$d82527c4$2cd739fc$@jdlabs.fr> Message-ID: <3197BE7B-F14A-4609-A137-D35BD8D5CA62@indigowireless.com> Am I the only one getting these messages repeatedly for the last day??? > On Oct 24, 2015, at 21:35, Ricky Beam wrote: > > Hey! > > > > New message, please read > > > > Ricky Beam > From bruns at 2mbit.com Sun Oct 25 22:56:36 2015 From: bruns at 2mbit.com (Brielle Bruns) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2015 16:56:36 -0600 Subject: *tap tap* is this thing on? Message-ID: <562D5E24.1010704@2mbit.com> This spam flood is kinda hilarious in a way. Any idea why no one with mod or admin privs for the mailing list has bothered to step in and deal with this? -- Brielle Bruns The Summit Open Source Development Group http://www.sosdg.org / http://www.ahbl.org From jason at thebaughers.com Sun Oct 25 22:55:17 2015 From: jason at thebaughers.com (Jason Baugher) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2015 17:55:17 -0500 Subject: Fw: new message In-Reply-To: <0000de5e727a$cd3a96b7$2dc9c968$@jdlabs.fr> References: <0000de5e727a$cd3a96b7$2dc9c968$@jdlabs.fr> Message-ID: This is getting really old. On Oct 25, 2015 3:50 PM, "Philippe Baucherel" wrote: > Hey! > > > > New message, please read > > > > Philippe Baucherel > > From savage at savage.za.org Mon Oct 26 11:24:37 2015 From: savage at savage.za.org (Chris Knipe) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 13:24:37 +0200 Subject: Fw: new message In-Reply-To: <0000232c036f$09b3b8b2$da213da0$@jdlabs.fr> References: <0000232c036f$09b3b8b2$da213da0$@jdlabs.fr> Message-ID: Dear NANOG Moderators, Sorry but after two DAYS of this crap... Are you planning to do something about all of this spam? Thank you. On Sun, Oct 25, 2015 at 3:35 AM, Salima Ait Meziane wrote: > Hey! > > > > New message, please read > > > > Salima Ait Meziane > > -- Regards, Chris Knipe From ghenry at suretec.co.uk Mon Oct 26 13:54:01 2015 From: ghenry at suretec.co.uk (Gavin Henry) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 13:54:01 +0000 Subject: Fw: new message In-Reply-To: <00005fb8b242$d3c6d8aa$13525c88$@jdlabs.fr> References: <00005fb8b242$d3c6d8aa$13525c88$@jdlabs.fr> Message-ID: Anything to be done about all these? On 25 October 2015 at 01:36, Nicolas Viers - Univ. Limoges wrote: > Hey! > > > > New message, please read > > > > Nicolas Viers - Univ. Limoges > -- Kind Regards, Gavin Henry. http://www.surevoip.co.uk OpenPGP (GPG/PGP) Public Key: 0x8CFBA8E6 - Import from hkp://subkeys.pgp.net or http://www.suretecgroup.com/0x8CFBA8E6.gpg From dmburgess at linktechs.net Mon Oct 26 13:13:02 2015 From: dmburgess at linktechs.net (Dennis Burgess) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 13:13:02 +0000 Subject: Roku Admin Message-ID: Can a Roku admin hit me off list please :) Thanks, [DennisBurgessSignature] www.linktechs.net - 314-735-0270 x103 - dmburgess at linktechs.net From milt at net2atlanta.com Mon Oct 26 16:04:32 2015 From: milt at net2atlanta.com (Milt Aitken) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 12:04:32 -0400 Subject: Uptick in spam References: Message-ID: It's not just you. -----Original Message----- From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces+milt=net2atlanta.com at nanog.org] On Behalf Of anthony kasza Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2015 12:14 AM To: North American Network Operators Group Subject: Uptick in spam Has there been a recent uptick in crap sent to the list or is it just me? Is there anything that we can do to filter these messages with junk links? -AK From job at instituut.net Mon Oct 26 16:06:13 2015 From: job at instituut.net (Job Snijders) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 17:06:13 +0100 Subject: Fw: new message In-Reply-To: References: <00005fb8b242$d3c6d8aa$13525c88$@jdlabs.fr> Message-ID: <20151026160613.GC6261@57.rev.meerval.net> On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 01:54:01PM +0000, Gavin Henry wrote: > Anything to be done about all these? Yes, it appears that even though the sender was blocked 30 hours ago or so in mailman itself, there was still tons of pre-existing garbage in the mailqueus which was flushed out over the last 30 hours. Clearly we failed in purging that garbage from the queue in a timely manner. Going forward, I expect some protection mechanisms will be implemented, rather sooner then later, to prevent this style of incident from happening again. Kind regards, Job From john-nanog at peachfamily.net Mon Oct 26 16:06:57 2015 From: john-nanog at peachfamily.net (John Peach) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 12:06:57 -0400 Subject: Uptick in spam In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20151026120657.67ecf0ca@jpeach-desktop.anbg.mssm.edu> I added this to my postfix header_checks: /^Subject:.*\bFw: new message/ REJECT No more new messages please On Sat, 24 Oct 2015 21:13:58 -0700 anthony kasza wrote: > Has there been a recent uptick in crap sent to the list or is it just > me? Is there anything that we can do to filter these messages with > junk links? > > -AK -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 490 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Kirill.Klimakhin at COREBTS.com Mon Oct 26 16:08:13 2015 From: Kirill.Klimakhin at COREBTS.com (Klimakhin, Kirill) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 16:08:13 +0000 Subject: Uptick in spam In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: All. Weekend. Long. I wanted someone to say something before I did. I thought I was the only one. Kirill Klimakhin Principal Consultant Kirill.Klimakhin at corebts.com www.corebts.com -----Original Message----- From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces+kirill.klimakhin=corebts.com at nanog.org] On Behalf Of anthony kasza Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2015 12:14 AM To: North American Network Operators Group Subject: Uptick in spam Has there been a recent uptick in crap sent to the list or is it just me? Is there anything that we can do to filter these messages with junk links? -AK ________________________________ Important Notice: This email message and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you are not the named addressee, you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. Please note that any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Core BTS. Core BTS specifically disclaims liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. From paras at protrafsolutions.com Mon Oct 26 16:14:58 2015 From: paras at protrafsolutions.com (Paras) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 12:14:58 -0400 Subject: Uptick in spam In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <562E5182.6090102@protrafsolutions.com> I see it too, there are some 517 messages in my spam folder "New message" Most of them get blocked, but a small fraction are still making it into my inbox On 10/25/2015 12:13 AM, anthony kasza wrote: > Has there been a recent uptick in crap sent to the list or is it just me? > Is there anything that we can do to filter these messages with junk links? > > -AK From yuksem at cse.unr.edu Mon Oct 26 16:31:40 2015 From: yuksem at cse.unr.edu (Murat Yuksel) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 09:31:40 -0700 Subject: spam smackdown? In-Reply-To: <20151024193938.93377B49@m0086238.ppops.net> References: <20151024193938.93377B49@m0086238.ppops.net> Message-ID: <9975E267-DC2F-48BF-9C07-D034866CF98E@cse.unr.edu> It has been more than a point. :) Thanks, Murat Yuksel > On Oct 24, 2015, at 7:39 PM, Scott Weeks wrote: > > > > It looks like someone's trying to make a point. > > --------------------------------- > New message, please read > ----------------------------------- > > scott From jimpop at gmail.com Mon Oct 26 16:35:11 2015 From: jimpop at gmail.com (Jim Popovitch) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 12:35:11 -0400 Subject: spam smackdown? In-Reply-To: <20151024193938.93377B49@m0086238.ppops.net> References: <20151024193938.93377B49@m0086238.ppops.net> Message-ID: On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 10:39 PM, Scott Weeks wrote: > > > It looks like someone's trying to make a point. The takeaway is: 1) NANOG doesn't seem to do simple inbound spam filtering :-) -Jim P. From josh at imaginenetworksllc.com Mon Oct 26 16:53:29 2015 From: josh at imaginenetworksllc.com (Josh Luthman) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 12:53:29 -0400 Subject: *tap tap* is this thing on? In-Reply-To: <562D5E24.1010704@2mbit.com> References: <562D5E24.1010704@2mbit.com> Message-ID: It isn't a quick flip of a switch would be my guess. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Sun, Oct 25, 2015 at 6:56 PM, Brielle Bruns wrote: > This spam flood is kinda hilarious in a way. Any idea why no one with mod > or admin privs for the mailing list has bothered to step in and deal with > this? > > > -- > Brielle Bruns > The Summit Open Source Development Group > http://www.sosdg.org / http://www.ahbl.org > From saper at saper.info Mon Oct 26 16:53:48 2015 From: saper at saper.info (Marcin Cieslak) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 16:53:48 +0000 Subject: The spam is real In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, 25 Oct 2015, Josh Luthman wrote: > Can we please get a filter for messages with the subject "Fw: new message" > ??? I have this in my $HOME/.procmailrc: :0: * ^List-ID:.*nanog.nanog.org> * ^Subject: Fw: new message nanog-junk 355 pieces since I put this rule (only two or so missed). Marcin From josh at imaginenetworksllc.com Mon Oct 26 16:57:18 2015 From: josh at imaginenetworksllc.com (Josh Luthman) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 12:57:18 -0400 Subject: The spam is real In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I did the same with Gmail. Has the words - listid:nanog at nanog.org and matching subject. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 12:53 PM, Marcin Cieslak wrote: > On Sun, 25 Oct 2015, Josh Luthman wrote: > > > Can we please get a filter for messages with the subject "Fw: new > message" > > ??? > > I have this in my $HOME/.procmailrc: > > :0: > * ^List-ID:.*nanog.nanog.org> > * ^Subject: Fw: new message > nanog-junk > > 355 pieces since I put this rule (only two or so missed). > > Marcin > From sakamura at gmail.com Mon Oct 26 16:58:32 2015 From: sakamura at gmail.com (Ishmael Rufus) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 11:58:32 -0500 Subject: spam smackdown? In-Reply-To: <20151024193938.93377B49@m0086238.ppops.net> References: <20151024193938.93377B49@m0086238.ppops.net> Message-ID: "It looks like someone's trying to make a point" Must be an Outlook exploit affected several clients. On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 9:39 PM, Scott Weeks wrote: > > > It looks like someone's trying to make a point. > > --------------------------------- > New message, please read > ----------------------------------- > > scott > From gstammw at gmx.net Mon Oct 26 17:01:21 2015 From: gstammw at gmx.net (Gunther Stammwitz) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 18:01:21 +0100 Subject: AW: Uptick in spam In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <004501d1100f$f126f0f0$d374d2d0$@gmx.net> The spam is real. You can tune your own spamassassin-installation by adding these lines to local.cf: #Custom Rule for SPAMCOP header SUBJECT_FW_NEWMESSAGE Subject =~ /(Fw: new message)/ describe SUBJECT_FW_NEWMESSAGE subject fw new message score SUBJECT_FW_NEWMESSAGE 10.0 I caught hundreds of these in my spam folder. Gunther > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces+gstammw=gmx.net at nanog.org] Im > Auftrag von anthony kasza > Gesendet: Sonntag, 25. Oktober 2015 05:14 > An: North American Network Operators Group > Betreff: Uptick in spam > > Has there been a recent uptick in crap sent to the list or is it just me? > Is there anything that we can do to filter these messages with junk links? > > -AK From bob at FiberInternetCenter.com Mon Oct 26 17:08:14 2015 From: bob at FiberInternetCenter.com (Bob Evans) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 10:08:14 -0700 Subject: *tap tap* is this thing on? In-Reply-To: <562D5E24.1010704@2mbit.com> References: <562D5E24.1010704@2mbit.com> Message-ID: <1f1aaa25dd2d0fcb78029a208aa6b76b.squirrel@66.201.44.180> My spam filtering must be working correctly. Because, I have only seen 1 or 2...this may be the case for those with the privs. Thank You Bob Evans CTO > This spam flood is kinda hilarious in a way. Any idea why no one with > mod or admin privs for the mailing list has bothered to step in and deal > with this? > > > -- > Brielle Bruns > The Summit Open Source Development Group > http://www.sosdg.org / http://www.ahbl.org > From bruns at 2mbit.com Mon Oct 26 17:09:14 2015 From: bruns at 2mbit.com (Brielle Bruns) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 11:09:14 -0600 Subject: *tap tap* is this thing on? In-Reply-To: References: <562D5E24.1010704@2mbit.com> Message-ID: <562E5E3A.3040901@2mbit.com> On 10/26/15 10:53 AM, Josh Luthman wrote: > It isn't a quick flip of a switch would be my guess. It's mailman - I believe there's a moderation switch to stop all messages dead in their tracks for approval. I've used it before, but don't remember the exact name of the feature in the mailman admin UI. -- Brielle Bruns The Summit Open Source Development Group http://www.sosdg.org / http://www.ahbl.org From rcarpen at network1.net Mon Oct 26 17:10:31 2015 From: rcarpen at network1.net (Randy Carpenter) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 13:10:31 -0400 (EDT) Subject: The spam is real In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1356109416.353703.1445879431225.JavaMail.zimbra@network1.net> I have to hand it to EdgeWave (with whom I have a very tumultuous love/hate relationship) for catching this flood from the very first message. thanks, -Randy ----- On Oct 25, 2015, at 12:22 AM, Josh Luthman josh at imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: > Can we please get a filter for messages with the subject "Fw: new message" > ??? > > Josh Luthman > Office: 937-552-2340 > Direct: 937-552-2343 > 1100 Wayne St > Suite 1337 > Troy, OH 45373 From plucena at coopergeneral.com Mon Oct 26 17:10:36 2015 From: plucena at coopergeneral.com (Pablo Lucena) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 13:10:36 -0400 Subject: The spam is real In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, Oct 25, 2015 at 12:22 AM, Josh Luthman wrote: > Can we please get a filter for messages with the subject "Fw: new message" > ??? > > ?So far I've dealt with it via Gmail's 'mute conversation' setting somewhat effectively.? From josh at imaginenetworksllc.com Mon Oct 26 17:11:36 2015 From: josh at imaginenetworksllc.com (Josh Luthman) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 13:11:36 -0400 Subject: *tap tap* is this thing on? In-Reply-To: <562E5E3A.3040901@2mbit.com> References: <562D5E24.1010704@2mbit.com> <562E5E3A.3040901@2mbit.com> Message-ID: That would be a lot of work to keep up with, though... Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 1:09 PM, Brielle Bruns wrote: > On 10/26/15 10:53 AM, Josh Luthman wrote: > >> It isn't a quick flip of a switch would be my guess. >> > > It's mailman - I believe there's a moderation switch to stop all messages > dead in their tracks for approval. I've used it before, but don't remember > the exact name of the feature in the mailman admin UI. > > > > > > -- > Brielle Bruns > The Summit Open Source Development Group > http://www.sosdg.org / http://www.ahbl.org > From johnmcalp at gmail.com Mon Oct 26 17:13:12 2015 From: johnmcalp at gmail.com (John McAlpine) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 13:13:12 -0400 Subject: All in favor or..... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Aye On Sun, Oct 25, 2015 at 11:35 AM, Jim Popovitch wrote: > All in favor of 9x5 network operations say aye. > > Geeze..... > > -Jim P. > From larrysheldon at cox.net Mon Oct 26 17:21:02 2015 From: larrysheldon at cox.net (Larry Sheldon) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 12:21:02 -0500 Subject: *tap tap* is this thing on? In-Reply-To: <562D5E24.1010704@2mbit.com> References: <562D5E24.1010704@2mbit.com> Message-ID: <562E60FE.6090402@cox.net> On 10/25/2015 17:56, Brielle Bruns wrote: > This spam flood is kinda hilarious in a way. Any idea why no one with > mod or admin privs for the mailing list has bothered to step in and deal > with this? You can find people who have been convinced that NANOG is fundamentally pro-abuse because to many of them, it is revenue traffic. -- sed quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (Juvenal) From larrysheldon at cox.net Mon Oct 26 17:22:35 2015 From: larrysheldon at cox.net (Larry Sheldon) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 12:22:35 -0500 Subject: All in favor or..... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <562E615B.6030905@cox.net> On 10/25/2015 10:35, Jim Popovitch wrote: > All in favor of 9x5 network operations say aye. "9x5"? -- sed quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (Juvenal) From jabley at hopcount.ca Mon Oct 26 17:24:44 2015 From: jabley at hopcount.ca (Joe Abley) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 13:24:44 -0400 Subject: *tap tap* is this thing on? In-Reply-To: <562D5E24.1010704@2mbit.com> References: <562D5E24.1010704@2mbit.com> Message-ID: <2764030732961784535@unknownmsgid> On Oct 26, 2015, at 13:10, Brielle Bruns wrote: > This spam flood is kinda hilarious in a way. Any idea why no one with mod or admin privs for the mailing list has bothered to step in and deal with this? I asked a similar question myself on another list. But then after a minute's reflection, the fact that we all got 200+ messages like this on the NANOG list and not a single other message complaining about it suggests that someone did actually hit the big red moderation button promptly, and just waited until Monday to sort it out (which would not have been completely unreasonable, I think). The residual messages that tricked through after that seem likely to be nothing more than outbound queues draining. Joe From davidbass570 at gmail.com Mon Oct 26 17:25:31 2015 From: davidbass570 at gmail.com (David Bass) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 13:25:31 -0400 Subject: NX-OS as LSR router In-Reply-To: <562CD02E.5080406@yahoo.fr> References: <56272FEC.1050905@yahoo.fr> <562CD02E.5080406@yahoo.fr> Message-ID: <50016CF2-1883-41F9-88E2-81B0A31D3264@gmail.com> There are ISP using NX-OS...just in the DC where it belongs (since the Nexus platform is designed for the data center). I don't think it has anything to do with IS-IS support though (although it may help sway some people now). > On Oct 25, 2015, at 8:50 AM, "marcel.duregards at yahoo.fr" wrote: > > related to the discussion about IGP choice, I had a quick look and found that NX-OS ISIS for IPv6 support is quiet recent. Was not supported on 5.x, but it supported on 7.x (2015). > > This might explain why not so many ISP use NX-OS. > >> On 21.10.2015 08:25, marcel.duregards at yahoo.fr wrote: >> Dear Nanog'er, >> >> Anybody using NX-OS on MPLS LSR and/or Edge-LSR ? >> >> We are evaluating the replacement of 7600 LSR routers. Our natural >> carrier/ISP choice would go for XR everywhere, but we are also curious >> about NX-OS on the core. >> >> Why not NX-OS for LSR and XR for Edge-LSR ? >> >> >> Thank, >> -Marcel From patrick at ianai.net Mon Oct 26 17:27:00 2015 From: patrick at ianai.net (Patrick W. Gilmore) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 13:27:00 -0400 Subject: Is anyone tracking the "Fw: New Message" joe-job spammer? In-Reply-To: <4888624.91.1445789514706.JavaMail.root@benjamin.baylink.com> References: <4888624.91.1445789514706.JavaMail.root@benjamin.baylink.com> Message-ID: <2205BB6B-6050-45FC-B0E5-E88EAA8858DC@ianai.net> I have 521 messages that match: To: nanog* Subject: new message In the last week. Obviously that includes things like Jay?s message below, but still a lot more than 100. It also hit outages@, and probably other places. Of course, I?m very upset about that. After 500+ tries, they did not spoof my name once!!! Guess I?m not important enough. -- TTFN, patrick > On Oct 25, 2015, at 12:11 PM, Jay Ashworth wrote: > > Cause if so I got about 100 examples from last night I can send you if > you think they'll help. :-) > > Cheers, > -- jra > > -- > Jay R. Ashworth Baylink jra at baylink.com > Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100 > Ashworth & Associates http://www.bcp38.info 2000 Land Rover DII > St Petersburg FL USA BCP38: Ask For It By Name! +1 727 647 1274 From Valdis.Kletnieks at vt.edu Mon Oct 26 17:28:38 2015 From: Valdis.Kletnieks at vt.edu (Valdis.Kletnieks at vt.edu) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 13:28:38 -0400 Subject: Can someone do something about this "Fw: New message" spam? In-Reply-To: <562D1DDB.3040508@winterei.se> References: <562D1DDB.3040508@winterei.se> Message-ID: <13044.1445880518@turing-police.cc.vt.edu> On Mon, 26 Oct 2015 03:22:19 +0900, "Paul S." said: > Hi, > > Can someone from the moderator team take a look? procmail is your friend. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 848 bytes Desc: not available URL: From brak at gameservers.com Mon Oct 26 17:37:14 2015 From: brak at gameservers.com (Brian Rak) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 13:37:14 -0400 Subject: EyeBall View In-Reply-To: <1690436996-1445802591-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1432441011-@b13.c3.bise6.blackberry> References: <1690436996-1445802591-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1432441011-@b13.c3.bise6.blackberry> Message-ID: <562E64CA.3090207@gameservers.com> So you've invented RIPE ATLAS? On 10/25/2015 3:49 PM, Dovid Bender wrote: > All, > > I had an idea to create a product where we would have a host on every EyeBall network. Customers could then connect to these hosts and check connectivity back to their network. For instance you may want to see what the speed is like from CableVision in central NJ to your network in South Florida or the latency etc. I go large scale I wanted to know how much demand there was for such a service. > > > Regards, > > Dovid From listas at esds.com.br Mon Oct 26 17:38:20 2015 From: listas at esds.com.br (Eduardo Schoedler) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 15:38:20 -0200 Subject: EyeBall View In-Reply-To: <1690436996-1445802591-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1432441011-@b13.c3.bise6.blackberry> References: <1690436996-1445802591-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1432441011-@b13.c3.bise6.blackberry> Message-ID: Hi Dovid, We have in Brazil a project like this. It's called ISPTools: www.isptools.com.br. Everyone can host a node, it's a simple nodejs. The author is very receptive, you can contact him to translate the site. Regards. -- Eduardo Schoedler 2015-10-25 17:49 GMT-02:00 Dovid Bender : > All, > > I had an idea to create a product where we would have a host on every > EyeBall network. Customers could then connect to these hosts and check > connectivity back to their network. For instance you may want to see what > the speed is like from CableVision in central NJ to your network in South > Florida or the latency etc. I go large scale I wanted to know how much > demand there was for such a service. > > > Regards, > > Dovid > From larrysheldon at cox.net Mon Oct 26 17:38:12 2015 From: larrysheldon at cox.net (Larry Sheldon) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 12:38:12 -0500 Subject: Can someone do something about this "Fw: New message" spam? In-Reply-To: <562D1DDB.3040508@winterei.se> References: <562D1DDB.3040508@winterei.se> Message-ID: <562E6504.1060607@cox.net> On 10/25/2015 13:22, Paul S. wrote: > Hi, > > Can someone from the moderator team take a look? > > This has been going on for a while. For a week or two, I think. Why the sudden interest? -- sed quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (Juvenal) From listas at esds.com.br Mon Oct 26 17:40:23 2015 From: listas at esds.com.br (Eduardo Schoedler) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 15:40:23 -0200 Subject: EyeBall View In-Reply-To: References: <1690436996-1445802591-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1432441011-@b13.c3.bise6.blackberry> Message-ID: Correction: it's already translated to english: http://www.isptools.com.br/?locale=en_US Regards, -- Eduardo Schoedler 2015-10-26 15:38 GMT-02:00 Eduardo Schoedler : > Hi Dovid, > > We have in Brazil a project like this. > It's called ISPTools: www.isptools.com.br. > > Everyone can host a node, it's a simple nodejs. > > The author is very receptive, you can contact him to translate the site. > > Regards. > > -- > Eduardo Schoedler > > > > 2015-10-25 17:49 GMT-02:00 Dovid Bender : > >> All, >> >> I had an idea to create a product where we would have a host on every >> EyeBall network. Customers could then connect to these hosts and check >> connectivity back to their network. For instance you may want to see what >> the speed is like from CableVision in central NJ to your network in South >> Florida or the latency etc. I go large scale I wanted to know how much >> demand there was for such a service. >> >> >> Regards, >> >> Dovid >> > > From royce at techsolvency.com Mon Oct 26 17:41:36 2015 From: royce at techsolvency.com (Royce Williams) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 09:41:36 -0800 Subject: The spam is real In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 9:10 AM, Pablo Lucena wrote: > On Sun, Oct 25, 2015 at 12:22 AM, Josh Luthman < > josh at imaginenetworksllc.com> > wrote: > > > Can we please get a filter for messages with the subject "Fw: new > message" > > ??? > > > ?So far I've dealt with it via Gmail's 'mute conversation' setting somewhat > effectively.? > Unfortunately, the 'mute conversation' feature only works for threads that are in the inbox. I filter all lists into their own subfolders, reserving the inbox for real people. So the 'mute conversation' feature is useless for most conversations that I actually want to mute. Royce From jwbensley at gmail.com Mon Oct 26 17:45:01 2015 From: jwbensley at gmail.com (James Bensley) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 17:45:01 +0000 Subject: EyeBall View In-Reply-To: <1690436996-1445802591-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1432441011-@b13.c3.bise6.blackberry> References: <1690436996-1445802591-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1432441011-@b13.c3.bise6.blackberry> Message-ID: These are "open" projects that ISPs can join to monitor performance between networks, I would recommend joining those instead of reinventing the wheel. I don't how much scope or interest there would be just for a raw speed test between networks though, however if enough networks really wanted it you could talk to the guys running the NL Ring (if it isn't already a feature, you could develop it there). https://ring.nlnog.net/ https://atlas.ripe.net/ I'm not sure if RIPE allow ISPs from outside Europe to join the Atlas project, if not ARIN could start one, it's been very successful here in Europe. Cheers, James. From bruns at 2mbit.com Mon Oct 26 17:46:54 2015 From: bruns at 2mbit.com (Brielle Bruns) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 11:46:54 -0600 Subject: *tap tap* is this thing on? In-Reply-To: <2764030732961784535@unknownmsgid> References: <562D5E24.1010704@2mbit.com> <2764030732961784535@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <562E670E.8060700@2mbit.com> On 10/26/15 11:24 AM, Joe Abley wrote: > On Oct 26, 2015, at 13:10, Brielle Bruns wrote: > >> This spam flood is kinda hilarious in a way. Any idea why no one with mod or admin privs for the mailing list has bothered to step in and deal with this? > > > I asked a similar question myself on another list. > > But then after a minute's reflection, the fact that we all got 200+ > messages like this on the NANOG list and not a single other message > complaining about it suggests that someone did actually hit the big > red moderation button promptly, and just waited until Monday to sort > it out (which would not have been completely unreasonable, I think). > > The residual messages that tricked through after that seem likely to > be nothing more than outbound queues draining. > > > Joe > I considered the same thing as you, initially. Went back and looked at the raw headers though, and the early Received headers - shows the messages were still coming in over the course of the weekend rather then just say Friday night and then it was a queue purge. My filters kicked in on Sat evening once I added something to counteract the whitelist for nanog's mails (going through nanog servers), so I'm missing alot of the later spew from Sunday. -- Brielle Bruns The Summit Open Source Development Group http://www.sosdg.org / http://www.ahbl.org From hugo at slabnet.com Mon Oct 26 17:48:13 2015 From: hugo at slabnet.com (Hugo Slabbert) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 10:48:13 -0700 Subject: EyeBall View In-Reply-To: <1690436996-1445802591-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1432441011-@b13.c3.bise6.blackberry> References: <1690436996-1445802591-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1432441011-@b13.c3.bise6.blackberry> Message-ID: <20151026174813.GA19199@bamboo.slabnet.com> On Sun 2015-Oct-25 19:49:50 +0000, Dovid Bender wrote: >All, > >I had an idea to create a product where we would have a host on every >EyeBall network. Customers could then connect to these hosts and check >connectivity back to their network. For instance you may want to see what >the speed is like from CableVision in central NJ to your network in South >Florida or the latency etc. I go large scale I wanted to know how much >demand there was for such a service. ...you mean other than RIPE Atlas, the NLNOG ring, Samknows, or UCLA's Cyclops? Or like those, but with a richer node? > >Regards, > >Dovid -- Hugo hugo at slabnet.com: email, xmpp/jabber PGP fingerprint (B178313E): CF18 15FA 9FE4 0CD1 2319 1D77 9AB1 0FFD B178 313E (also on textsecure & redphone) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From larrysheldon at cox.net Mon Oct 26 17:50:21 2015 From: larrysheldon at cox.net (Larry Sheldon) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 12:50:21 -0500 Subject: the crap mail flood and the nanog culture In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <562E67DD.60500@cox.net> On 10/25/2015 17:22, Randy Bush wrote: > you might think that with all the committees, boards, badges, ... that > there was an actual operator in the nanog resume building circle who > would actually do something useful about the crap mail flood now into > its second day. I have been discarding it for more than two days! In response to "you might think", that would assume that there is a formal belief that abuse of the network (even revenue abuse) is bad. -- sed quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (Juvenal) From jared at puck.nether.net Mon Oct 26 17:56:22 2015 From: jared at puck.nether.net (Jared Mauch) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 13:56:22 -0400 Subject: the crap mail flood and the nanog culture In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8C5204EA-0164-46A8-8D09-048D2B2E3BDF@puck.nether.net> > On Oct 25, 2015, at 6:22 PM, Randy Bush wrote: > > you might think that with all the committees, boards, badges, ... that > there was an actual operator in the nanog resume building circle who > would actually do something useful about the crap mail flood now into > its second day. I?ll certainly say this was frustrating for me. I got a fair amount via NANOG and a fair amount directly as well all with an easy pattern to mitigate. It took me until today to realize that the list was still working and did not dump me for rejecting all the messages at the SMTP layer. My understanding is that only one person has access to the mail server to put it in emergency mode or mitigate the damage. Perhaps someone can post the escalation policy for the list somewhere so it can be mitigated faster next time? - Jared From savage at savage.za.org Mon Oct 26 17:57:27 2015 From: savage at savage.za.org (Chris Knipe) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 19:57:27 +0200 Subject: the crap mail flood and the nanog culture In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 12:22 AM, Randy Bush wrote: > you might think that with all the committees, boards, badges, ... that > there was an actual operator in the nanog resume building circle who > would actually do something useful about the crap mail flood now into > its second day. > > I'd actually like to go as far as to say that the same can be said about certain hosting provider's abuse departments, and RBL operators too... Yet, if ACME Nuts & Bolts with a small VPS at some random hosting provider sends ONE spam message, their servers are shutdown almost no questions asked (never mind a good number of what, hundred thousands, over a period of days) -sigh- It's amazing how 'fair' the playing field on the Internet has become. -- Regards, Chris Knipe From josh at imaginenetworksllc.com Mon Oct 26 18:03:13 2015 From: josh at imaginenetworksllc.com (Josh Luthman) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 14:03:13 -0400 Subject: new message In-Reply-To: <3197BE7B-F14A-4609-A137-D35BD8D5CA62@indigowireless.com> References: <0000fe868ff3$d82527c4$2cd739fc$@jdlabs.fr> <3197BE7B-F14A-4609-A137-D35BD8D5CA62@indigowireless.com> Message-ID: You mean 3 days? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Sun, Oct 25, 2015 at 10:17 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote: > Am I the only one getting these messages repeatedly for the last day??? > > > On Oct 24, 2015, at 21:35, Ricky Beam wrote: > > > > Hey! > > > > > > > > New message, please read > > > > > > > > Ricky Beam > > > From jared at puck.nether.net Mon Oct 26 18:06:43 2015 From: jared at puck.nether.net (Jared Mauch) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 14:06:43 -0400 Subject: EyeBall View In-Reply-To: <1690436996-1445802591-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1432441011-@b13.c3.bise6.blackberry> References: <1690436996-1445802591-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1432441011-@b13.c3.bise6.blackberry> Message-ID: <96CB730E-B078-416A-A6CB-A0A8C17A3F9F@puck.nether.net> > On Oct 25, 2015, at 3:49 PM, Dovid Bender wrote: > > All, > > I had an idea to create a product where we would have a host on every EyeBall network. Customers could then connect to these hosts and check connectivity back to their network. For instance you may want to see what the speed is like from CableVision in central NJ to your network in South Florida or the latency etc. I go large scale I wanted to know how much demand there was for such a service. > There appear to be a few things like this, eg: Raintank and the RIPE Atlas project that have fairly diverse views. I?m not aware of anything with perfect penetration. With RIPE Atlas it?s roll your own, where Raintank is SaaS. I?m sure there are others, but these are the two I?m aware of. - Jared From matthew at matthew.at Mon Oct 26 18:12:56 2015 From: matthew at matthew.at (Matthew Kaufman) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 11:12:56 -0700 Subject: All in favor or..... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8E0E6515-46B5-49AB-9EB6-30EC79C4FB53@matthew.at> If all the complaining waits until Monday morning, why fix it over the weekend? Matthew Kaufman (Sent from my iPhone) > On Oct 25, 2015, at 8:35 AM, Jim Popovitch wrote: > > All in favor of 9x5 network operations say aye. > > Geeze..... > > -Jim P. From dcorbe at hammerfiber.com Mon Oct 26 04:00:22 2015 From: dcorbe at hammerfiber.com (Daniel Corbe) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 00:00:22 -0400 Subject: new message In-Reply-To: <3197BE7B-F14A-4609-A137-D35BD8D5CA62@indigowireless.com> (Matt Hoppes's message of "Sun, 25 Oct 2015 22:17:04 -0400") References: <0000fe868ff3$d82527c4$2cd739fc$@jdlabs.fr> <3197BE7B-F14A-4609-A137-D35BD8D5CA62@indigowireless.com> Message-ID: <87eggiqnxl.fsf@corbe.net> Everyone else is getting them too. You can easily snag them with an appropriate procmail filter though: :0: * ^Subject:.*Fw: new message Maildir/.Junk/ -Daniel Matt Hoppes writes: > Am I the only one getting these messages repeatedly for the last day??? > >> On Oct 24, 2015, at 21:35, Ricky Beam wrote: >> >> Hey! >> >> >> >> New message, please read >> >> >> >> Ricky Beam >> From jimpop at gmail.com Mon Oct 26 18:16:54 2015 From: jimpop at gmail.com (Jim Popovitch) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 14:16:54 -0400 Subject: All in favor or..... In-Reply-To: <8E0E6515-46B5-49AB-9EB6-30EC79C4FB53@matthew.at> References: <8E0E6515-46B5-49AB-9EB6-30EC79C4FB53@matthew.at> Message-ID: On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 2:12 PM, Matthew Kaufman wrote: > If all the complaining waits until Monday morning, why fix it over the weekend? If people only looked at received headers...... -Jim P. From jim at reptiles.org Mon Oct 26 18:17:00 2015 From: jim at reptiles.org (Jim Mercer) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 14:17:00 -0400 Subject: Does no one monitor the list on weekends? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20151026181700.GA10290@reptiles.org> On Sun, Oct 25, 2015 at 09:59:40PM -0400, Robert Webb wrote: > This spam is ridiculous! it should be noted that it has been flowing all weekend, and nobody really complained or even commented on it until this morning. so, yeah, maybe the list is on auto-pilot, which is totally understandable. however, all the members seemed to be on auto-pilot as well. (or maybe enjoying their weekend) --jim -- Jim Mercer Reptilian Research jim at reptiles.org +1 416 410-5633 Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride!" -- Hunter S. Thompson From nellermann at broadaspect.com Mon Oct 26 18:19:16 2015 From: nellermann at broadaspect.com (Nick Ellermann) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 18:19:16 +0000 Subject: EyeBall View In-Reply-To: <1690436996-1445802591-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1432441011-@b13.c3.bise6.blackberry> References: <1690436996-1445802591-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1432441011-@b13.c3.bise6.blackberry> Message-ID: <8be5d6f4e399478589e2e9b63968f18b@exchange.broadaspect.local> Dovid, What features are you thinking that would be useful? Latency, QoS, Tracert, AS Hops, etc? Many networks have the OOkla speedtest server hung off a link from their website or even some flavor of a Looking Glass site. Having yet another platform maybe difficult for the ISP to participate, even then it would be placed at or near the core of their network and not out with the end users. Maybe with some incentive you could get end users (aka the Eyeballs) to plug in something small like a Raspberry Pi device or run a software app on their computers. But if the end users on the various networks won't get anything from it, you are going to be struggling to have enough take rate to have good statistics. You may find that the only ones interested are a small set of network operators. Sincerely, Nick Ellermann - CTO & VP Cloud Services BroadAspect ? E: nellermann at broadaspect.com P: 703-297-4639 F: 703-996-4443 ? THIS COMMUNICATION MAY CONTAIN CONFIDENTIAL AND/OR OTHERWISE PROPRIETARY MATERIAL and is thus for use only by the intended recipient. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the e-mail and its attachments from all computers. -----Original Message----- From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces at nanog.org] On Behalf Of Dovid Bender Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2015 3:50 PM To: nanog Subject: EyeBall View All, I had an idea to create a product where we would have a host on every EyeBall network. Customers could then connect to these hosts and check connectivity back to their network. For instance you may want to see what the speed is like from CableVision in central NJ to your network in South Florida or the latency etc. I go large scale I wanted to know how much demand there was for such a service. Regards, Dovid From list at satchell.net Mon Oct 26 18:29:11 2015 From: list at satchell.net (Stephen Satchell) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 11:29:11 -0700 Subject: Fw: new message In-Reply-To: References: <0000de5e727a$cd3a96b7$2dc9c968$@jdlabs.fr> Message-ID: <562E70F7.8040007@satchell.net> On 10/25/2015 03:55 PM, Jason Baugher wrote: > This is getting really old. Yep, so old I put in a filter to shunt them away to the trash. It's the same subject line, so it's easy to filter out. No coding required, just used Thunderbird's facility. Eight seconds start to finish. No more spam. From sethm at rollernet.us Mon Oct 26 18:30:42 2015 From: sethm at rollernet.us (Seth Mattinen) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 11:30:42 -0700 Subject: the crap mail flood and the nanog culture In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <562E7152.3000102@rollernet.us> On 10/25/15 15:22, Randy Bush wrote: > you might think that with all the committees, boards, badges, ... that > there was an actual operator in the nanog resume building circle who > would actually do something useful about the crap mail flood now into > its second day. > Maybe a committee with authorization by the board has to create a task force to address the problem. ~Seth From ian.w.smith at gmail.com Mon Oct 26 18:34:14 2015 From: ian.w.smith at gmail.com (Ian Smith) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 14:34:14 -0400 Subject: Uptick in spam In-Reply-To: <562E5182.6090102@protrafsolutions.com> References: <562E5182.6090102@protrafsolutions.com> Message-ID: Filtering *@jdlabs.fr did the trick for me. Of course, now I have to write a much more complex filter to hide all the complaining about NANOG spam :) Ian Smith ________________________________________ 161 South St. Hightstown, NJ 201-315-1316 phone ian.w.smith at gmail.com On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 12:14 PM, Paras wrote: > I see it too, there are some 517 messages in my spam folder "New message" > > Most of them get blocked, but a small fraction are still making it into my > inbox > > > On 10/25/2015 12:13 AM, anthony kasza wrote: > >> Has there been a recent uptick in crap sent to the list or is it just me? >> Is there anything that we can do to filter these messages with junk links? >> >> -AK >> > > > From jcurran at arin.net Mon Oct 26 18:35:03 2015 From: jcurran at arin.net (John Curran) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 18:35:03 +0000 Subject: RFP for Internet Transit for ARIN ASN 10745 (at Ashburn, Virginia, USA) References: <562E6A3A.2030308@arin.net> Message-ID: <8B16FC81-8C55-45A4-B3B4-DF4C928C0A36@corp.arin.net> NANOGers - If you are interested in providing transit for ARIN, please see the attached RFP announcement. Thanks! /John John Curran President and CEO ARIN Begin forwarded message: From: ARIN > Date: October 26, 2015 at 2:00:26 PM EDT To: > Subject: [arin-announce] RFP for Internet Transit for ARIN ASN 10745 ARIN is seeking Internet service providers (ISPs) to bid on the delivery of Internet transit to ARIN's network, ASN 10745. This network is part of ARIN's production provisioning networks and is a part of the critical Internet infrastructure. ARIN is looking for qualified providers that are able to provide service to its presence within Equinix's DC4 datacenter located in Ashburn, Virginia. All contractual terms and conditions related to the work performed, nondisclosure of information, or liability issues must be detailed. ARIN will require that the vendor performing this service sign a nondisclosure agreement due to the proprietary nature of the information ARIN retains for its subscribers. All proposals must be submitted no later than 5:00 PM EST on 13 November 2015. ARIN will evaluate the properly submitted proposals and will select a winning bidder or bidders no later than 30 November 2015. Full text of the RFP is available at: http://www.arin.net/about_us/contracts/201510_east_coast_transit_rfp_ash.pdf Send proposals to rfp-transit-ash at arin.net or by mail to: Matt Rowley Infrastructure Manager American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN) 3635 Concorde Parkway, Suite 200 Chantilly, VA. 20151 ATTN: Proposal for Internet Transit Services Technical questions may be directed to: rfp-transit-ash at arin.net ARIN is operated as a nonprofit 501(c)(6) corporation which is chartered for educational, charitable, and scientific purposes. It is a membership organization with an official IRS designation as a business league. _______________________________________________ ARIN-Announce You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN Announce Mailing List (ARIN-announce at arin.net). Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-announce Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. From jj at anexia.at Mon Oct 26 18:38:14 2015 From: jj at anexia.at (=?iso-8859-1?Q?J=FCrgen_Jaritsch?=) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 18:38:14 +0000 Subject: AW: Uptick in spam In-Reply-To: <20151026120657.67ecf0ca@jpeach-desktop.anbg.mssm.edu> References: <20151026120657.67ecf0ca@jpeach-desktop.anbg.mssm.edu> Message-ID: <1aef7cbfffb84dea8461f0c40db9bcec@anx-i-dag02.anx.local> Hi, I added this two lines to our postfix header checks: /mike at sentex\.net/ DISCARD /jdenoy at jdlabs\.fr/ DISCARD Worked very well: # grep -i discard /var/log/mail.log | grep -iE "@jdlabs|@sentex" | wc -l 408 Best regards J?rgen Jaritsch Head of Network & Infrastructure ANEXIA Internetdienstleistungs GmbH Telefon: +43-5-0556-300 Telefax: +43-5-0556-500 E-Mail: JJaritsch at anexia-it.com Web: http://www.anexia-it.com Anschrift Hauptsitz Klagenfurt: Feldkirchnerstra?e 140, 9020 Klagenfurt Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Alexander Windbichler Firmenbuch: FN 289918a | Gerichtsstand: Klagenfurt | UID-Nummer: AT U63216601 -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces at nanog.org] Im Auftrag von John Peach Gesendet: Montag, 26. Oktober 2015 17:07 An: nanog at nanog.org Betreff: Re: Uptick in spam I added this to my postfix header_checks: /^Subject:.*\bFw: new message/ REJECT No more new messages please On Sat, 24 Oct 2015 21:13:58 -0700 anthony kasza wrote: > Has there been a recent uptick in crap sent to the list or is it just > me? Is there anything that we can do to filter these messages with > junk links? > > -AK From rob at invaluement.com Mon Oct 26 18:38:41 2015 From: rob at invaluement.com (Rob McEwen) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 14:38:41 -0400 Subject: improved NANOG filtering In-Reply-To: <20151026160613.GC6261@57.rev.meerval.net> References: <00005fb8b242$d3c6d8aa$13525c88$@jdlabs.fr> <20151026160613.GC6261@57.rev.meerval.net> Message-ID: <562E7331.7040700@invaluement.com> On 10/26/2015 12:06 PM, Job Snijders wrote: > I expect some protection mechanisms will be implemented, > rather sooner then later, to prevent this style of incident from > happening again. Job, I can't tell for sure if you're a NANOG admin? Or if you're making educated guesses about what you think that NANOG will do? If you really are a NANOG admin, I suggest adding some kind of URI filtering for blocking the message based on the the domains/IPs found in the clickable links in the body of the message. Here are 4 such lists: SURBL URIBL invaluement URI SpamHaus' DBL list (all very, very good!) My own invaluementURI list did particularly well on this set of (mostly hijacked) spammy domains, possibly listing ALL of them! I spot checked about 40 of them and couldn't find a single one that wasn't already listed on ivmURI at the time of the sending. But then I discovered that my sample set wasn't truly random. So I can't say for sure, but it looks like ivmURI had the highest hit rate, possibly by a wide margin. (I wish I had meticulously collected ALL of them and checked ALL of them at the time they were received!) Since then, more of these are now listed on the other URI/domain blacklists. (but that doesn't mean as much if they weren't listed at the time the spam was sent!) Nevertheless, going forward, I recommend checking these at multirbl.valli.org (or mxtoolbox) to see *which* domain blacklist(s) would have blocked the spam at the time of the sending... to get an idea of which blacklists are best for blocking this very sneaky series of spams. PS - I'd be happy to provide complementary access to invaluement data to NANOG, if so desired. -- Rob McEwen From sakamura at gmail.com Mon Oct 26 18:44:13 2015 From: sakamura at gmail.com (Ishmael Rufus) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 13:44:13 -0500 Subject: Uptick in spam In-Reply-To: <562E5182.6090102@protrafsolutions.com> References: <562E5182.6090102@protrafsolutions.com> Message-ID: Hey! Maybe this is relevant: On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 11:14 AM, Paras wrote: > I see it too, there are some 517 messages in my spam folder "New message" > > Most of them get blocked, but a small fraction are still making it into my > inbox > > > On 10/25/2015 12:13 AM, anthony kasza wrote: > >> Has there been a recent uptick in crap sent to the list or is it just me? >> Is there anything that we can do to filter these messages with junk links? >> >> -AK >> > > > From jlewis at lewis.org Mon Oct 26 18:49:05 2015 From: jlewis at lewis.org (Jon Lewis) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 14:49:05 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Fw: new message In-Reply-To: References: <0000232c036f$09b3b8b2$da213da0$@jdlabs.fr> Message-ID: On Mon, 26 Oct 2015, Chris Knipe wrote: > Dear NANOG Moderators, > > Sorry but after two DAYS of this crap... Are you planning to do something > about all of this spam? I think they've ordered more alcohol. If they run out, they might have to actually do some work. Can't have that. Who's been "running" this runaway train of a mailing list...and who would someone talk to about volunteering to help manage/moderate it? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Jon Lewis, MCP :) | I route | therefore you are _________ http://www.lewis.org/~jlewis/pgp for PGP public key_________ From davidbass570 at gmail.com Mon Oct 26 18:50:03 2015 From: davidbass570 at gmail.com (David Bass) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 14:50:03 -0400 Subject: SPAM solutions (to prevent mass emails from ever happening again) Message-ID: Considering the latest mass SPAM attack I have determined that action must be taken to prevent this from ever happening again! It is obvious that email servers are to blame, as without them SPAMmers would not be able to carry out their vicious attacks. We therefore must outlaw all email servers, except those run by government agencies who specialize in running email servers. I vote that we start a petition to outlaw email servers...WHO'S WITH ME? From toddunder at gmail.com Mon Oct 26 18:50:36 2015 From: toddunder at gmail.com (Todd Underwood) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 14:50:36 -0400 Subject: spam smackdown? In-Reply-To: References: <20151024193938.93377B49@m0086238.ppops.net> Message-ID: luckily, many of us saw almost none of this spam due to effective inbound spam filtering on our accounts. which is awesome. i did, however, manage to see lots of messages from people complaining about the spam that they did receive. :-) t On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 12:35 PM, Jim Popovitch wrote: > On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 10:39 PM, Scott Weeks wrote: >> >> >> It looks like someone's trying to make a point. > > The takeaway is: > > 1) NANOG doesn't seem to do simple inbound spam filtering :-) > > > -Jim P. From A.L.M.Buxey at lboro.ac.uk Mon Oct 26 18:55:12 2015 From: A.L.M.Buxey at lboro.ac.uk (Alan Buxey) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 18:55:12 +0000 Subject: EyeBall View In-Reply-To: <1690436996-1445802591-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1432441011-@b13.c3.bise6.blackberry> References: <1690436996-1445802591-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1432441011-@b13.c3.bise6.blackberry> Message-ID: <029815B9-60A7-45F5-BF9A-0EEB185380CF@lboro.ac.uk> What, like RIPE NCC ? :) alan From bkain1 at ford.com Mon Oct 26 18:59:17 2015 From: bkain1 at ford.com (Kain, Rebecca (.)) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 18:59:17 +0000 Subject: spam smackdown? In-Reply-To: References: <20151024193938.93377B49@m0086238.ppops.net> Message-ID: <7DB845D64966DC44A1CC592780539B4B012DD0E9@nafmbx47.exchange.ford.com> I love all the email about spam -----Original Message----- From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces at nanog.org] On Behalf Of Ishmael Rufus Sent: Monday, October 26, 2015 12:59 PM To: surfer at mauigateway.com Cc: NANOG Subject: Re: spam smackdown? "It looks like someone's trying to make a point" Must be an Outlook exploit affected several clients. On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 9:39 PM, Scott Weeks wrote: > > > It looks like someone's trying to make a point. > > --------------------------------- > New message, please read > ----------------------------------- > > scott > From arturo.servin at gmail.com Mon Oct 26 19:00:26 2015 From: arturo.servin at gmail.com (Arturo Servin) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 19:00:26 +0000 Subject: EyeBall View In-Reply-To: <1690436996-1445802591-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1432441011-@b13.c3.bise6.blackberry> References: <1690436996-1445802591-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1432441011-@b13.c3.bise6.blackberry> Message-ID: There are a plenty of services/research doing that. M-Lab RIPE Atlas Speedtest to name some. .as On Mon, 26 Oct 2015 at 10:35 Dovid Bender wrote: > All, > > I had an idea to create a product where we would have a host on every > EyeBall network. Customers could then connect to these hosts and check > connectivity back to their network. For instance you may want to see what > the speed is like from CableVision in central NJ to your network in South > Florida or the latency etc. I go large scale I wanted to know how much > demand there was for such a service. > > > Regards, > > Dovid > From jimpop at gmail.com Mon Oct 26 19:00:39 2015 From: jimpop at gmail.com (Jim Popovitch) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 15:00:39 -0400 Subject: *tap tap* is this thing on? In-Reply-To: References: <562D5E24.1010704@2mbit.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 12:53 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: > It isn't a quick flip of a switch would be my guess. > It is indeed much simpler and can even be done via a mobile device from anywhere in the world. The magic sauce: Moderate the user account being abused to post to this list. -Jim P. From patrick at ianai.net Mon Oct 26 19:03:26 2015 From: patrick at ianai.net (Patrick W. Gilmore) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 15:03:26 -0400 Subject: spam smackdown? In-Reply-To: References: <20151024193938.93377B49@m0086238.ppops.net> Message-ID: On Oct 26, 2015, at 12:35 PM, Jim Popovitch wrote: > On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 10:39 PM, Scott Weeks wrote: >> It looks like someone's trying to make a point. > > The takeaway is: > > 1) NANOG doesn't seem to do simple inbound spam filtering :-) In fairness to the Communications Committee (of which I have zero influence or power), a few points: 1) They apparently filtered it more than a day ago, we are just seeing the queue drain. Which is not surprising on a mailing list of > 10K email addresses. 2) Inbound spam filtering is VERY HARD on something like NANOG. How many people here post things like samples of spam? Imagine the backlash: ?This is an operational list. How could you not expect operational content to include samples?!?!?! AAARRGGGGGHHHHHHHh HRHFLSHFBEAW% ^&*DKJHFSLkdjh@#%asltrifhuawlekhtfweq5r1r#@%!@#QWEGDAwsgfhqw!!!!111!!!!? (That is honestly what I expect of some posters here?.) 3) Anyone who feels this is so frickin? bad it is unbearable, and knows they could do SO MUCH BETTER themselves, should volunteer for the Communications Committee. Otherwise, everyone should thank the unpaid volunteers for their gracious and excellent work day after day, year after year. Or just STFU. For my part, I would just like to thank the CC members. I think they do a most amazing job, and deserve of humblest gratitude. -- TTFN, patrick From rsk at gsp.org Mon Oct 26 19:12:30 2015 From: rsk at gsp.org (Rich Kulawiec) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 15:12:30 -0400 Subject: Fw: new message In-Reply-To: <20151026160613.GC6261@57.rev.meerval.net> References: <00005fb8b242$d3c6d8aa$13525c88$@jdlabs.fr> <20151026160613.GC6261@57.rev.meerval.net> Message-ID: <20151026191230.GA2592@gsp.org> Several points. 1. It wasn't just NANOG. A number of other mailing lists were targeted. Whether or not all these attacks were launched by the same entity is unknown and probably unknowable. 2. The admins at nanog.org address appears to be unresponsive. Is there actually anyone reading that? If so, who? And why aren't replies being issued in a timely manner? 3. Mailman includes an "emergency moderation" switch for just such occasions as this. When activated, it holds all incoming mailing list traffic for human attention, i.e., nothing goes out unless manually approved. It would have been a good idea to throw that switch as soon as this started, in order to minimize the consequences. 4. As noted, if outbound traffic is already in the MTA queue, then it should be halted and manually cleaned out. This is often annoying and tedious, but it's better than letting it flush. 5. The admins should probably reach out to the keepers of the most-often utilized MX's for NANOG message delivery, as no doubt the onslaught of spam caused degradation of their idea of the sending system's/domain's spam/non-spam traffic mix. (I say that knowing that some or possibly most of those will be impossible to contact: it seems that many people running mail servers failed the first hour of the first day of Email Administration 101 and do not read their postmaster mail and act on it.) 6. There are additional pro-active and reactive steps that can be taken to forestall future such incidents or at least to mitigate them. I've reached out (again) offering to bring my expertise to bear on the problem. None of these steps will be panaceas. None of them will give guarantees. But in combination they should at least help decrease the pain. ---rsk From ljb at merit.edu Mon Oct 26 19:17:37 2015 From: ljb at merit.edu (Larry Blunk) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 15:17:37 -0400 Subject: NANOG list attack Message-ID: <562E7C51.509@merit.edu> All, Just wanted to apologize for the attack over the weekend. The posts came from a email address that was subscribed to the list, so it was not subjected to moderation. While a filter was added to block further posts (which were made in a short time window), there were existing message queues that were not cleared in a timely basis. As Job Snijders (a fellow Communications Committee member) noted in an earlier post, we will be implementing some additional protection mechanisms to prevent this style of incident from happening again. We will be more aggressively moderating posts from addresses who have not posted recently, in addition to other filtering mechanisms. Regards, Larry Blunk NANOG Communications Committee Admins at nanog.org From saper at saper.info Mon Oct 26 19:24:39 2015 From: saper at saper.info (Marcin Cieslak) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 19:24:39 +0000 Subject: *tap tap* is this thing on? In-Reply-To: References: <562D5E24.1010704@2mbit.com> <562E5E3A.3040901@2mbit.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 26 Oct 2015, Josh Luthman wrote: > > It's mailman - I believe there's a moderation switch to stop all messages > > dead in their tracks for approval. I've used it before, but don't remember > > the exact name of the feature in the mailman admin UI. http://mailman.nanog.org/mailman/admin/nanog/?VARHELP=general/emergency Emergency moderation > That would be a lot of work to keep up with, though... Almost no real messages were sent for more than a day... Marcin From william.allen.simpson at gmail.com Mon Oct 26 19:25:43 2015 From: william.allen.simpson at gmail.com (William Allen Simpson) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 15:25:43 -0400 Subject: The spam is real In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <562E7E37.9060603@gmail.com> On 10/26/15 1:10 PM, Pablo Lucena wrote: > On Sun, Oct 25, 2015 at 12:22 AM, Josh Luthman > wrote: > >> Can we please get a filter for messages with the subject "Fw: new message" >> ??? >> >> > ?So far I've dealt with it via Gmail's 'mute conversation' setting somewhat > effectively.? > Gmail was smart enough to put those addressed directly to me into the spam folder -- and let those via nanog through. It's been trained well! Let's look at this as an opportunity. We have a relatively small set of websites that have been corrupted with additional links (presumably unknown to the owner), that then redirect one or more times. What's the exploit that corrupted the sites? Have the site owners been contacted? All the sites that I checked (without the added suffix) seem legit. But maybe they are spammer sites? How do we know? From savage at savage.za.org Mon Oct 26 19:34:35 2015 From: savage at savage.za.org (Chris Knipe) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 21:34:35 +0200 Subject: *tap tap* is this thing on? In-Reply-To: References: <562D5E24.1010704@2mbit.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 9:00 PM, Jim Popovitch wrote: > > It is indeed much simpler and can even be done via a mobile device > from anywhere in the world. The magic sauce: Moderate the user > account being abused to post to this list. > Yep - saw ONE message on AFNOG, and that was the end of it, and I think two, or three on the Freeradius lists, and that was the end of that... Hundreds, and hundreds on NANOG however. -- Regards, Chris Knipe From jimpop at gmail.com Mon Oct 26 19:38:53 2015 From: jimpop at gmail.com (Jim Popovitch) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 15:38:53 -0400 Subject: All in favor or..... In-Reply-To: <562E615B.6030905@cox.net> References: <562E615B.6030905@cox.net> Message-ID: On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 1:22 PM, Larry Sheldon wrote: > On 10/25/2015 10:35, Jim Popovitch wrote: >> >> All in favor of 9x5 network operations say aye. > > > "9x5"? Well who really works 8 hours a day? -Jim P. From jimpop at gmail.com Mon Oct 26 19:45:16 2015 From: jimpop at gmail.com (Jim Popovitch) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 15:45:16 -0400 Subject: Is anyone tracking the "Fw: New Message" joe-job spammer? In-Reply-To: <2205BB6B-6050-45FC-B0E5-E88EAA8858DC@ianai.net> References: <4888624.91.1445789514706.JavaMail.root@benjamin.baylink.com> <2205BB6B-6050-45FC-B0E5-E88EAA8858DC@ianai.net> Message-ID: On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 1:27 PM, Patrick W. Gilmore wrote: > I have 521 messages that match: > To: nanog* > Subject: new message > > In the last week. Obviously that includes things like Jay?s message below, but still a lot more than 100. > > It also hit outages@, and probably other places. > > Of course, I?m very upset about that. After 500+ tries, they did not spoof my name once!!! Guess I?m not important enough. Well, the only spoofed one poor guys email address, the body texts were an amalgamation of various names and URLs. -Jim P. From marka at isc.org Mon Oct 26 20:18:09 2015 From: marka at isc.org (Mark Andrews) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 07:18:09 +1100 Subject: EyeBall View In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 26 Oct 2015 17:45:01 -0000." References: <1690436996-1445802591-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1432441011-@b13.c3.bise6.blackberry> Message-ID: <20151026201809.6EC383B24F72@rock.dv.isc.org> In message , James Bensley writes: > These are "open" projects that ISPs can join to monitor performance > between networks, I would recommend joining those instead of > reinventing the wheel. > > I don't how much scope or interest there would be just for a raw speed > test between networks though, however if enough networks really wanted > it you could talk to the guys running the NL Ring (if it isn't already > a feature, you could develop it there). > > https://ring.nlnog.net/ > > https://atlas.ripe.net/ > > I'm not sure if RIPE allow ISPs from outside Europe to join the Atlas > project, if not ARIN could start one, it's been very successful here > in Europe. There are Atlas probes all over the world. I have one here in Sydney connected via Optus and HE (San Hose). I'm just waiting for HE to complete bringing up their Sydney POP and hopefully with that tunnel end points as Optus doesn't appear to be intending to deliver IPv6 anytime soon. Hopefully with the NBN saying they are taking over the HFC we might get IPv6 as I think that the NBN as caused ISP's to stall upgrades to support IPv6. Mark > Cheers, > James. -- Mark Andrews, ISC 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: marka at isc.org From mark.tinka at seacom.mu Mon Oct 26 20:19:54 2015 From: mark.tinka at seacom.mu (Mark Tinka) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 22:19:54 +0200 Subject: NX-OS as LSR router In-Reply-To: <562CD02E.5080406@yahoo.fr> References: <56272FEC.1050905@yahoo.fr> <562CD02E.5080406@yahoo.fr> Message-ID: <562E8AEA.4050904@seacom.mu> On 25/Oct/15 14:50, marcel.duregards at yahoo.fr wrote: > related to the discussion about IGP choice, I had a quick look and > found that NX-OS ISIS for IPv6 support is quiet recent. Was not > supported on 5.x, but it supported on 7.x (2015). > > This might explain why not so many ISP use NX-OS. Don't expect your money back from Cisco if you use a data centre switch as a service provider core router. Mark. From tom.taylor.stds at gmail.com Mon Oct 26 20:20:24 2015 From: tom.taylor.stds at gmail.com (Tom Taylor) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 16:20:24 -0400 Subject: *tap tap* is this thing on? In-Reply-To: References: <562D5E24.1010704@2mbit.com> Message-ID: <562E8B08.4020704@gmail.com> On 26/10/2015 3:00 PM, Jim Popovitch wrote: > On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 12:53 PM, Josh Luthman > wrote: >> It isn't a quick flip of a switch would be my guess. >> > > It is indeed much simpler and can even be done via a mobile device > from anywhere in the world. The magic sauce: Moderate the user > account being abused to post to this list. > > -Jim P. > I've been seeing spates of these messages in other lists, including at least one I co-administer. And yes, moderation of the abused user does seem to work. As administrator I still have to kill the messages off, but Mailman makers this fairly easy. Tom Taylor From bruns at 2mbit.com Mon Oct 26 20:42:53 2015 From: bruns at 2mbit.com (Brielle Bruns) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 14:42:53 -0600 Subject: Does no one monitor the list on weekends? In-Reply-To: <20151026181700.GA10290@reptiles.org> References: <20151026181700.GA10290@reptiles.org> Message-ID: <562E904D.3010907@2mbit.com> On 10/26/15 12:17 PM, Jim Mercer wrote: > On Sun, Oct 25, 2015 at 09:59:40PM -0400, Robert Webb wrote: >> This spam is ridiculous! > > it should be noted that it has been flowing all weekend, and nobody really > complained or even commented on it until this morning. > > so, yeah, maybe the list is on auto-pilot, which is totally understandable. > > however, all the members seemed to be on auto-pilot as well. > > (or maybe enjoying their weekend) There were people complaining, just it was firmly lodged behind the spam and didn't end up going through until this morning when someone used a plunger on the SMTP server. -- Brielle Bruns The Summit Open Source Development Group http://www.sosdg.org / http://www.ahbl.org From saper at saper.info Mon Oct 26 20:43:44 2015 From: saper at saper.info (Marcin Cieslak) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 20:43:44 +0000 Subject: Does no one monitor the list on weekends? In-Reply-To: <20151026181700.GA10290@reptiles.org> References: <20151026181700.GA10290@reptiles.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 26 Oct 2015, Jim Mercer wrote: > On Sun, Oct 25, 2015 at 09:59:40PM -0400, Robert Webb wrote: > > This spam is ridiculous! > > it should be noted that it has been flowing all weekend, and nobody really > complained or even commented on it until this morning. > > so, yeah, maybe the list is on auto-pilot, which is totally understandable. > > however, all the members seemed to be on auto-pilot as well. > > (or maybe enjoying their weekend) No real on-call, shift-work operators here any more :) From trelane at trelane.net Mon Oct 26 20:44:00 2015 From: trelane at trelane.net (Andrew Kirch) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 16:44:00 -0400 Subject: *tap tap* is this thing on? In-Reply-To: <562E670E.8060700@2mbit.com> References: <562D5E24.1010704@2mbit.com> <2764030732961784535@unknownmsgid> <562E670E.8060700@2mbit.com> Message-ID: I have been getting these all weekend as well, and am well over 200. Pings via Twitter, and attempts to contact NANOG's upstream (SCNET) via NANOG have gone unanswered. On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 1:46 PM, Brielle Bruns wrote: > On 10/26/15 11:24 AM, Joe Abley wrote: > >> On Oct 26, 2015, at 13:10, Brielle Bruns wrote: >> >> This spam flood is kinda hilarious in a way. Any idea why no one with >>> mod or admin privs for the mailing list has bothered to step in and deal >>> with this? >>> >> >> >> I asked a similar question myself on another list. >> >> But then after a minute's reflection, the fact that we all got 200+ >> messages like this on the NANOG list and not a single other message >> complaining about it suggests that someone did actually hit the big >> red moderation button promptly, and just waited until Monday to sort >> it out (which would not have been completely unreasonable, I think). >> >> The residual messages that tricked through after that seem likely to >> be nothing more than outbound queues draining. >> >> >> Joe >> >> > I considered the same thing as you, initially. Went back and looked at > the raw headers though, and the early Received headers - shows the messages > were still coming in over the course of the weekend rather then just say > Friday night and then it was a queue purge. > > My filters kicked in on Sat evening once I added something to counteract > the whitelist for nanog's mails (going through nanog servers), so I'm > missing alot of the later spew from Sunday. > > > -- > Brielle Bruns > The Summit Open Source Development Group > http://www.sosdg.org / http://www.ahbl.org > From trelane at trelane.net Mon Oct 26 20:44:47 2015 From: trelane at trelane.net (Andrew Kirch) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 16:44:47 -0400 Subject: Does no one monitor the list on weekends? In-Reply-To: <20151026181700.GA10290@reptiles.org> References: <20151026181700.GA10290@reptiles.org> Message-ID: It's insane to claim this when I sent several e-mails, and tweets to NANOG this weekend, and even requested an offlist contact from NANOG's upstream. On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 2:17 PM, Jim Mercer wrote: > On Sun, Oct 25, 2015 at 09:59:40PM -0400, Robert Webb wrote: > > This spam is ridiculous! > > it should be noted that it has been flowing all weekend, and nobody really > complained or even commented on it until this morning. > > so, yeah, maybe the list is on auto-pilot, which is totally understandable. > > however, all the members seemed to be on auto-pilot as well. > > (or maybe enjoying their weekend) > > --jim > > > -- > Jim Mercer Reptilian Research jim at reptiles.org +1 416 410-5633 > > Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of > arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather > to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, > totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride!" > -- Hunter S. Thompson > From trelane at trelane.net Mon Oct 26 20:46:41 2015 From: trelane at trelane.net (Andrew Kirch) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 16:46:41 -0400 Subject: the crap mail flood and the nanog culture In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The unequal treatment we see here is why, so many years ago, I fought and threatened to rhsbl .mail. We've built the walled garden anyway, and now we're damned for it. On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 1:57 PM, Chris Knipe wrote: > On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 12:22 AM, Randy Bush wrote: > > > you might think that with all the committees, boards, badges, ... that > > there was an actual operator in the nanog resume building circle who > > would actually do something useful about the crap mail flood now into > > its second day. > > > > > > I'd actually like to go as far as to say that the same can be said about > certain hosting provider's abuse departments, and RBL operators too... > > Yet, if ACME Nuts & Bolts with a small VPS at some random hosting provider > sends ONE spam message, their servers are shutdown almost no questions > asked (never mind a good number of what, hundred thousands, over a period > of days) -sigh- > > It's amazing how 'fair' the playing field on the Internet has become. > > -- > > Regards, > Chris Knipe > From connorwilkins at ruggedinbox.com Mon Oct 26 20:48:49 2015 From: connorwilkins at ruggedinbox.com (Connor Wilkins) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 20:48:49 +0000 Subject: Does no one monitor the list on weekends? In-Reply-To: <20151026181700.GA10290@reptiles.org> References: <20151026181700.GA10290@reptiles.org> Message-ID: <87107b469d5b0459974e5065203c4539@ruggedinbox.com> On 2015-10-26 18:17, Jim Mercer wrote: > On Sun, Oct 25, 2015 at 09:59:40PM -0400, Robert Webb wrote: >> This spam is ridiculous! > > it should be noted that it has been flowing all weekend, and nobody > really > complained or even commented on it until this morning. > > so, yeah, maybe the list is on auto-pilot, which is totally > understandable. > > however, all the members seemed to be on auto-pilot as well. > > (or maybe enjoying their weekend) > > --jim Complaining was happening. Check the timestamp of the email you replied to as well as the archives: https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2015-October/. The outbound mail queue was full of spam so the complaints were delivered late -- ?Simply stated, we have a new formula for Coke.? --- Roberto C. Goizueta, Company Chairman, Coca-Cola From bruns at 2mbit.com Mon Oct 26 20:48:59 2015 From: bruns at 2mbit.com (Brielle Bruns) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 14:48:59 -0600 Subject: *tap tap* is this thing on? In-Reply-To: <562E60FE.6090402@cox.net> References: <562D5E24.1010704@2mbit.com> <562E60FE.6090402@cox.net> Message-ID: <562E91BB.1060803@2mbit.com> On 10/26/15 11:21 AM, Larry Sheldon wrote: > On 10/25/2015 17:56, Brielle Bruns wrote: >> This spam flood is kinda hilarious in a way. Any idea why no one with >> mod or admin privs for the mailing list has bothered to step in and deal >> with this? > > You can find people who have been convinced that NANOG is fundamentally > pro-abuse because to many of them, it is revenue traffic. > I get such mixed messages from people on this list when it comes to network abuse (esp spam). I'd almost venture to say that viewpoint is justified somewhat by the attitude of many major providers about the crap that spews forth from their or their customer's IP space. I get it that it is hard for large providers to be proactive about things going on due to the sheer size of their networks, but come on. That excuse only works for so long. -- Brielle Bruns The Summit Open Source Development Group http://www.sosdg.org / http://www.ahbl.org From bruns at 2mbit.com Mon Oct 26 20:54:20 2015 From: bruns at 2mbit.com (Brielle Bruns) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 14:54:20 -0600 Subject: the crap mail flood and the nanog culture In-Reply-To: <562E7152.3000102@rollernet.us> References: <562E7152.3000102@rollernet.us> Message-ID: <562E92FC.4040100@2mbit.com> On 10/26/15 12:30 PM, Seth Mattinen wrote: > On 10/25/15 15:22, Randy Bush wrote: >> you might think that with all the committees, boards, badges, ... that >> there was an actual operator in the nanog resume building circle who >> would actually do something useful about the crap mail flood now into >> its second day. >> > > > Maybe a committee with authorization by the board has to create a task > force to address the problem. Need to get authorization to get authorization to seek out bids for a contractor to begin work on soliciting feedback on a proposed authorization to create a task force. -- Brielle Bruns The Summit Open Source Development Group http://www.sosdg.org / http://www.ahbl.org From trelane at trelane.net Mon Oct 26 20:56:02 2015 From: trelane at trelane.net (Andrew Kirch) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 16:56:02 -0400 Subject: Why is NANOG not being blacklisted like any other provider that sent 500 spam messages in 3 days? Message-ID: All, Myth: NANOG supposed to be the gold standard for best practices. Fact: 500 spam messages over the weekend. Myth: there were no complaints and this issue was raised over the weekend Fact: I raised it this weekend via twitter twice @NANOG, and requested contact from SCNET (NANOG's upstream) trying to find a live person to shut it off. Myth: blah blah blah social media is a bad way to get ahold of netops/abuse. Fact: Social media is an acceptable way to report abuse. My marketing department certainly knows how to get ahold of me when such an issue occurs. It's 2015, and if you and everyone you know isn't watching twitter I can't help you, because you've gone braindead. Myth: but you could have reached out to someone else and maybe done something to stop this quickly. Fact: I reached out to several people at ARIN and elsewhere trying to get a live person at NANOG to no avail. Myth: this is acceptable because NANOG has political clout in the US and elsewhere. Fact: If I was still running the AHBL, NANOG would be it's own private intranet right now. Andrew From Steve.Mikulasik at civeo.com Mon Oct 26 20:57:51 2015 From: Steve.Mikulasik at civeo.com (Steve Mikulasik) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 20:57:51 +0000 Subject: Uptick in spam In-Reply-To: References: <562E5182.6090102@protrafsolutions.com> Message-ID: I think there might be more emails discussing the spam, than the actual spam itself. -----Original Message----- From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces at nanog.org] On Behalf Of Ian Smith Sent: Monday, October 26, 2015 12:34 PM To: Paras Cc: nanog at nanog.org Subject: Re: Uptick in spam Filtering *@jdlabs.fr did the trick for me. Of course, now I have to write a much more complex filter to hide all the complaining about NANOG spam :) Ian Smith ________________________________________ 161 South St. Hightstown, NJ 201-315-1316 phone ian.w.smith at gmail.com On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 12:14 PM, Paras wrote: > I see it too, there are some 517 messages in my spam folder "New message" > > Most of them get blocked, but a small fraction are still making it > into my inbox > > > On 10/25/2015 12:13 AM, anthony kasza wrote: > >> Has there been a recent uptick in crap sent to the list or is it just me? >> Is there anything that we can do to filter these messages with junk links? >> >> -AK >> > > > From patrick at ianai.net Mon Oct 26 21:11:22 2015 From: patrick at ianai.net (Patrick W. Gilmore) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 17:11:22 -0400 Subject: Why is NANOG not being blacklisted like any other provider that sent 500 spam messages in 3 days? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9FCFB8F6-C32A-42DF-81B1-6F9828D9FC5B@ianai.net> Myth: Andrew?s post has utility to the 10K+ people reading it. (Not watching Twitter makes me braindead? really? Yeah, it?s 2015. Get up-to-date, should have sent a snapchat. Duh.) Fact: Andrew should probably just un-sub since he finds NANOG useless. That would actually provide utility to the rest of us. I repeat: The UN-PAID VOLUNTEERS on the Communications Committee do a great job. If you think you can do better, please please please volunteer. Otherwise, simply thank them for doing what you refuse to do and get on with your life. -- TTFN, patrick > On Oct 26, 2015, at 4:56 PM, Andrew Kirch wrote: > > All, > > Myth: NANOG supposed to be the gold standard for best practices. > Fact: 500 spam messages over the weekend. > > Myth: there were no complaints and this issue was raised over the weekend > Fact: I raised it this weekend via twitter twice @NANOG, and requested > contact from SCNET (NANOG's upstream) trying to find a live person to shut > it off. > > Myth: blah blah blah social media is a bad way to get ahold of netops/abuse. > Fact: Social media is an acceptable way to report abuse. My marketing > department certainly knows how to get ahold of me when such an issue > occurs. It's 2015, and if you and everyone you know isn't watching twitter > I can't help you, because you've gone braindead. > > Myth: but you could have reached out to someone else and maybe done > something to stop this quickly. > Fact: I reached out to several people at ARIN and elsewhere trying to get a > live person at NANOG to no avail. > > Myth: this is acceptable because NANOG has political clout in the US and > elsewhere. > Fact: If I was still running the AHBL, NANOG would be it's own private > intranet right now. > > > Andrew From patrick at ianai.net Mon Oct 26 21:15:01 2015 From: patrick at ianai.net (Patrick W. Gilmore) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 17:15:01 -0400 Subject: improved NANOG filtering In-Reply-To: <562E7331.7040700@invaluement.com> References: <00005fb8b242$d3c6d8aa$13525c88$@jdlabs.fr> <20151026160613.GC6261@57.rev.meerval.net> <562E7331.7040700@invaluement.com> Message-ID: > If you really are a NANOG admin, I suggest adding some kind of URI filtering for blocking the message based on the the domains/IPs found in the clickable links in the body of the message. And the first person who says ?who has seen $URL? or similar in a message gets bounced, then bitches about ?operational nature? of NANOG. I think it is probably not a great idea to add things like URI checkers to NANOG. We can bitch & moan about people supposed to modify it to hxxp or whatever, but reality is people like to copy/paste and this is not unreasonable on NANOG. Of course, if the rest of you feel differently, let the CC know, It is community driven, the community can decide - if you let your voices be heard. -- TTFN, patrick > On Oct 26, 2015, at 2:38 PM, Rob McEwen wrote: > > On 10/26/2015 12:06 PM, Job Snijders wrote: >> I expect some protection mechanisms will be implemented, >> rather sooner then later, to prevent this style of incident from >> happening again. > > Job, > > I can't tell for sure if you're a NANOG admin? Or if you're making educated guesses about what you think that NANOG will do? > > If you really are a NANOG admin, I suggest adding some kind of URI filtering for blocking the message based on the the domains/IPs found in the clickable links in the body of the message. > > Here are 4 such lists: > SURBL > URIBL > invaluement URI > SpamHaus' DBL list > > (all very, very good!) > > My own invaluementURI list did particularly well on this set of (mostly hijacked) spammy domains, possibly listing ALL of them! I spot checked about 40 of them and couldn't find a single one that wasn't already listed on ivmURI at the time of the sending. But then I discovered that my sample set wasn't truly random. So I can't say for sure, but it looks like ivmURI had the highest hit rate, possibly by a wide margin. (I wish I had meticulously collected ALL of them and checked ALL of them at the time they were received!) Since then, more of these are now listed on the other URI/domain blacklists. (but that doesn't mean as much if they weren't listed at the time the spam was sent!) > > Nevertheless, going forward, I recommend checking these at multirbl.valli.org (or mxtoolbox) to see *which* domain blacklist(s) would have blocked the spam at the time of the sending... to get an idea of which blacklists are best for blocking this very sneaky series of spams. > > PS - I'd be happy to provide complementary access to invaluement data to NANOG, if so desired. > > -- > Rob McEwen From patrick at ianai.net Mon Oct 26 21:18:14 2015 From: patrick at ianai.net (Patrick W. Gilmore) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 17:18:14 -0400 Subject: RFP for Internet Transit for ARIN ASN 10745 (at Ashburn, Virginia, USA) In-Reply-To: <8B16FC81-8C55-45A4-B3B4-DF4C928C0A36@corp.arin.net> References: <562E6A3A.2030308@arin.net> <8B16FC81-8C55-45A4-B3B4-DF4C928C0A36@corp.arin.net> Message-ID: <2DB7ED6F-F574-4427-B0AD-D7DBAF9FA981@ianai.net> Do you pay in v4 address space? :-) -- TTFN, patrick > On Oct 26, 2015, at 2:35 PM, John Curran wrote: > > NANOGers - > > If you are interested in providing transit for ARIN, please see the attached RFP announcement. > > Thanks! > /John > > John Curran > President and CEO > ARIN > > > Begin forwarded message: > > From: ARIN > > Date: October 26, 2015 at 2:00:26 PM EDT > To: > > Subject: [arin-announce] RFP for Internet Transit for ARIN ASN 10745 > > ARIN is seeking Internet service providers (ISPs) to bid on the delivery of Internet transit to ARIN's network, ASN 10745. > > This network is part of ARIN's production provisioning networks and is a part of the critical Internet infrastructure. ARIN is looking for qualified providers that are able to provide service to its presence within Equinix's DC4 datacenter located in Ashburn, Virginia. > > All contractual terms and conditions related to the work performed, nondisclosure of information, or liability issues must be detailed. ARIN will require that the vendor performing this service sign a nondisclosure agreement due to the proprietary nature of the information ARIN retains for its subscribers. > > All proposals must be submitted no later than 5:00 PM EST on 13 November 2015. ARIN will evaluate the properly submitted proposals and will select a winning bidder or bidders no later than 30 November 2015. > > Full text of the RFP is available at: > > http://www.arin.net/about_us/contracts/201510_east_coast_transit_rfp_ash.pdf > > Send proposals to rfp-transit-ash at arin.net or by mail to: > > Matt Rowley > Infrastructure Manager > American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN) > 3635 Concorde Parkway, Suite 200 > Chantilly, VA. 20151 > ATTN: Proposal for Internet Transit Services > > Technical questions may be directed to: > > rfp-transit-ash at arin.net > > ARIN is operated as a nonprofit 501(c)(6) corporation which is chartered for educational, charitable, and scientific purposes. It is a membership organization with an official IRS designation as a business league. > _______________________________________________ > ARIN-Announce > You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to > the ARIN Announce Mailing List (ARIN-announce at arin.net). > Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: > http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-announce > Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues. From niels=nanog at bakker.net Mon Oct 26 21:21:15 2015 From: niels=nanog at bakker.net (Niels Bakker) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 22:21:15 +0100 Subject: Fw: new message In-Reply-To: References: <0000232c036f$09b3b8b2$da213da0$@jdlabs.fr> Message-ID: <20151026212115.GE3097@excession.tpb.net> * jlewis at lewis.org (Jon Lewis) [Mon 26 Oct 2015, 22:14 CET]: >Who's been "running" this runaway train of a mailing list...and who >would someone talk to about volunteering to help manage/moderate it? The moderators actually stepped in quickly, but they did not have filesystem access for the necessary mailq | awk | xargs postsuper. This episode clearly showed that many NANOG subscribers are incredibly difficult to reach by email, because it took all weekend to deliver several hundred emails to them. I'd be interested in a log analysis to see what domain(s) were the largest causes of queue run delays. -- Niels. From kauer at biplane.com.au Mon Oct 26 21:23:31 2015 From: kauer at biplane.com.au (Karl Auer) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 08:23:31 +1100 Subject: "no more spam" isn't emough In-Reply-To: <562E70F7.8040007@satchell.net> References: <0000de5e727a$cd3a96b7$2dc9c968$@jdlabs.fr> <562E70F7.8040007@satchell.net> Message-ID: <1445894611.18314.88.camel@karl> On Mon, 2015-10-26 at 11:29 -0700, Stephen Satchell wrote: > No coding required, just used Thunderbird's facility. Eight seconds > start to finish. No more spam. Filtering at the endpoint is good for reducing the number of times someone has to click "Delete". For those of us in regions with inbound data quotas, upstream spam filtering is essential. Sure, I filtered them all straight to trash, but only after I'd already paid for them. Regards, K. -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Karl Auer (kauer at biplane.com.au) http://www.biplane.com.au/kauer http://twitter.com/kauer389 GPG fingerprint: 3C41 82BE A9E7 99A1 B931 5AE7 7638 0147 2C3C 2AC4 Old fingerprint: EC67 61E2 C2F6 EB55 884B E129 072B 0AF0 72AA 9882 From ikiris at gmail.com Mon Oct 26 21:29:38 2015 From: ikiris at gmail.com (Blake Dunlap) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 14:29:38 -0700 Subject: improved NANOG filtering In-Reply-To: <562E7331.7040700@invaluement.com> References: <00005fb8b242$d3c6d8aa$13525c88$@jdlabs.fr> <20151026160613.GC6261@57.rev.meerval.net> <562E7331.7040700@invaluement.com> Message-ID: Please stop using this as an opportunity to spam your commercial anti-spam list.... ffs On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 11:38 AM, Rob McEwen wrote: > On 10/26/2015 12:06 PM, Job Snijders wrote: >> >> I expect some protection mechanisms will be implemented, >> rather sooner then later, to prevent this style of incident from >> happening again. > > > Job, > > I can't tell for sure if you're a NANOG admin? Or if you're making educated > guesses about what you think that NANOG will do? > > If you really are a NANOG admin, I suggest adding some kind of URI filtering > for blocking the message based on the the domains/IPs found in the clickable > links in the body of the message. > > Here are 4 such lists: > SURBL > URIBL > invaluement URI > SpamHaus' DBL list > > (all very, very good!) > > My own invaluementURI list did particularly well on this set of (mostly > hijacked) spammy domains, possibly listing ALL of them! I spot checked about > 40 of them and couldn't find a single one that wasn't already listed on > ivmURI at the time of the sending. But then I discovered that my sample set > wasn't truly random. So I can't say for sure, but it looks like ivmURI had > the highest hit rate, possibly by a wide margin. (I wish I had meticulously > collected ALL of them and checked ALL of them at the time they were > received!) Since then, more of these are now listed on the other URI/domain > blacklists. (but that doesn't mean as much if they weren't listed at the > time the spam was sent!) > > Nevertheless, going forward, I recommend checking these at > multirbl.valli.org (or mxtoolbox) to see *which* domain blacklist(s) would > have blocked the spam at the time of the sending... to get an idea of which > blacklists are best for blocking this very sneaky series of spams. > > PS - I'd be happy to provide complementary access to invaluement data to > NANOG, if so desired. > > -- > Rob McEwen > From job at instituut.net Mon Oct 26 22:00:55 2015 From: job at instituut.net (Job Snijders) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 23:00:55 +0100 Subject: NANOG list attack In-Reply-To: <562E7C51.509@merit.edu> References: <562E7C51.509@merit.edu> Message-ID: <20151026220055.GG24841@22.rev.meerval.net> On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 03:17:37PM -0400, Larry Blunk wrote: > Just wanted to apologize for the attack over the weekend. The > posts came from a email address that was subscribed to the list, so > it was not subjected to moderation. While a filter was added > to block further posts (which were made in a short time window), > there were existing message queues that were not cleared in a > timely basis. > > As Job Snijders (a fellow Communications Committee member) noted > in an earlier post, we will be implementing some additional protection > mechanisms to prevent this style of incident from happening again. We > will be more aggressively moderating posts from addresses who have > not posted recently, in addition to other filtering mechanisms. To add to that: several people reached out off-list, offering help and recommendations. We'll be following those up in the next few days. Thank you for your support! Some people found the admins at nanog.org readership unresponsive, but I assure you this is not the case under normal circumstances. The admins mail distribution was clogged up for the same reasons as the main list. We'll work on improving our reachability. Kind regards, Job From rob at invaluement.com Mon Oct 26 22:03:39 2015 From: rob at invaluement.com (Rob McEwen) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 18:03:39 -0400 Subject: The spam is real In-Reply-To: <562E7E37.9060603@gmail.com> References: <562E7E37.9060603@gmail.com> Message-ID: <562EA33B.3000303@invaluement.com> On 10/26/2015 3:25 PM, William Allen Simpson wrote: > What's the exploit that corrupted the sites? > ... > All the sites that I checked (without the added suffix) seem > legit. But maybe they are spammer sites? How do we know? > Most involve wordpress vulnerabilities that a spammer exploited, where the spammer then installed their spammy content on someone else's otherwise legit website. (other vulnerabilities happen too.) NOTE: Anyone using wordpress need to be vigilante about keeping it updated (and associated plugins updated)! That makes these particularly hard to blacklist because they always involve SOME amount of "collateral damage" (though often a small and well-justified amount) AND the same algorithms that help URI/domain blacklists to not have FPs, likewise often (and often mistakenly) prevent many of these from getting blacklisted... which explains why many of these were not on very many URI or domain blacklists. -- Rob McEwen From mike-nanog at tiedyenetworks.com Mon Oct 26 22:36:38 2015 From: mike-nanog at tiedyenetworks.com (Mike) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 15:36:38 -0700 Subject: NANOG list attack In-Reply-To: <562E7C51.509@merit.edu> References: <562E7C51.509@merit.edu> Message-ID: <562EAAF6.8000808@tiedyenetworks.com> Larry, Thank you for the work you and others do behind the scenes to make the nanog list available and functional. Mike- On 10/26/2015 12:17 PM, Larry Blunk wrote: > All, > Just wanted to apologize for the attack over the weekend. The > posts came from a email address that was subscribed to the list, so > it was not subjected to moderation. While a filter was added > to block further posts (which were made in a short time window), > there were existing message queues that were not cleared in a > timely basis. > > As Job Snijders (a fellow Communications Committee member) noted > in an earlier post, we will be implementing some additional protection > mechanisms to prevent this style of incident from happening again. We > will be more aggressively moderating posts from addresses who have > not posted recently, in addition to other filtering mechanisms. > > Regards, > Larry Blunk > NANOG Communications Committee > Admins at nanog.org > > -- Mike Ireton WillitsOnline LLC From list at satchell.net Mon Oct 26 22:53:07 2015 From: list at satchell.net (Stephen Satchell) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 15:53:07 -0700 Subject: Why is NANOG not being blacklisted like any other provider that sent 500 spam messages in 3 days? In-Reply-To: <9FCFB8F6-C32A-42DF-81B1-6F9828D9FC5B@ianai.net> References: <9FCFB8F6-C32A-42DF-81B1-6F9828D9FC5B@ianai.net> Message-ID: <562EAED3.9040508@satchell.net> On 10/26/2015 02:11 PM, Patrick W. Gilmore wrote: > Otherwise, simply thank them for doing what you refuse to do and get on with your life. Thank you, communications committee, for the work you do. Also, if you think what happened was a spam flood, you are very lucky. While a mail admin and very active on NANAE, I ticked someone off to the point that I had more than 80,000 spam mails attacking my usenet account in a day. Not to mention six or seven irate phone calls from people who received spam with my personal contact information on it. I suspect the flood would have been larger, but the traffic maxed out my SMTP process so lots of connections were refused. From larrysheldon at cox.net Mon Oct 26 22:53:43 2015 From: larrysheldon at cox.net (Larry Sheldon) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 17:53:43 -0500 Subject: Does no one monitor the list on weekends? In-Reply-To: <20151026181700.GA10290@reptiles.org> References: <20151026181700.GA10290@reptiles.org> Message-ID: <562EAEF7.40604@cox.net> On 10/26/2015 13:17, Jim Mercer wrote: > On Sun, Oct 25, 2015 at 09:59:40PM -0400, Robert Webb wrote: >> This spam is ridiculous! > > it should be noted that it has been flowing all weekend, and nobody really > complained or even commented on it until this morning. > > so, yeah, maybe the list is on auto-pilot, which is totally understandable. > > however, all the members seemed to be on auto-pilot as well. > > (or maybe enjoying their weekend) Or used to being ignored at best and banned at worst. -- sed quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (Juvenal) From mehmet at akcin.net Mon Oct 26 23:01:15 2015 From: mehmet at akcin.net (Mehmet Akcin) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 16:01:15 -0700 Subject: Why is NANOG not being blacklisted like any other provider that sent 500 spam messages in 3 days? In-Reply-To: <9FCFB8F6-C32A-42DF-81B1-6F9828D9FC5B@ianai.net> References: <9FCFB8F6-C32A-42DF-81B1-6F9828D9FC5B@ianai.net> Message-ID: Amen! Comms team let us know if there is anything we can do to support you otherwise thanks in advance for fixing this issue. Mehmet On Monday, October 26, 2015, Patrick W. Gilmore wrote: > Myth: Andrew?s post has utility to the 10K+ people reading it. (Not > watching Twitter makes me braindead? really? Yeah, it?s 2015. Get > up-to-date, should have sent a snapchat. Duh.) > > Fact: Andrew should probably just un-sub since he finds NANOG useless. > That would actually provide utility to the rest of us. > > > I repeat: The UN-PAID VOLUNTEERS on the Communications Committee do a > great job. If you think you can do better, please please please volunteer. > Otherwise, simply thank them for doing what you refuse to do and get on > with your life. > > -- > TTFN, > patrick > > > On Oct 26, 2015, at 4:56 PM, Andrew Kirch > wrote: > > > > All, > > > > Myth: NANOG supposed to be the gold standard for best practices. > > Fact: 500 spam messages over the weekend. > > > > Myth: there were no complaints and this issue was raised over the > weekend > > Fact: I raised it this weekend via twitter twice @NANOG, and requested > > contact from SCNET (NANOG's upstream) trying to find a live person to > shut > > it off. > > > > Myth: blah blah blah social media is a bad way to get ahold of > netops/abuse. > > Fact: Social media is an acceptable way to report abuse. My marketing > > department certainly knows how to get ahold of me when such an issue > > occurs. It's 2015, and if you and everyone you know isn't watching > twitter > > I can't help you, because you've gone braindead. > > > > Myth: but you could have reached out to someone else and maybe done > > something to stop this quickly. > > Fact: I reached out to several people at ARIN and elsewhere trying to > get a > > live person at NANOG to no avail. > > > > Myth: this is acceptable because NANOG has political clout in the US and > > elsewhere. > > Fact: If I was still running the AHBL, NANOG would be it's own private > > intranet right now. > > > > > > Andrew > > From mysidia at gmail.com Mon Oct 26 23:08:07 2015 From: mysidia at gmail.com (Jimmy Hess) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 18:08:07 -0500 Subject: Why is NANOG not being blacklisted like any other provider that sent 500 spam messages in 3 days? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 3:56 PM, Andrew Kirch wrote: > > Why is NANOG not being blacklisted like any other provider that sent 500 spam messages in 3 days? Because NANOG is an opt-in list, and they're not the origin of abuse. Their software might have inadvertently forwarded junk to the membership, but members essentially take that chance by joining in an open list. Adding NANOG itself to spam blacklists would neither be the solution to the problem, nor be beneficial; it would definitely do more harm than good, Neither would it be a proper or correct resolution. > Myth: NANOG supposed to be the gold standard for best practices. > Fact: 500 spam messages over the weekend. Wrong industry. NANOG is a network operators list, not a general IT or e-mail operators list. Also, there is no gold standard for e-mail list best practices, other than the IETF Standards documents and Standards-track RFCs, since different professionals have well-reasoned, legitimate differences in opinion regarding most subjects. Also, adhering to practices deemed good does not ensure there will be no incidents or attacks, Because there is no such thing as a perfect non-attackable implementation. > Myth: blah blah blah social media is a bad way to get ahold of netops/abuse. > Fact: Social media is an acceptable way to report abuse. My marketing ...[snip] Abuse is not reported, until submitted through proper channels. Those are set out by the organization providing abuse contact points. In case of emergency though, all points should be contacted, until a definitive answer is received; A social media post certainly doesn't seem adequate. The reporter's communication preferences don't dictate what exactly those are. Whether social media is a proper channel or not, depends on the organization. In many cases, it's unreliable at best, and E-mail to all points And such are a better idea. > occurs. It's 2015, and if you and everyone you know isn't watching twitter I wouldn't be watching Tritter. Not everyone is. I think it is a bit snobby to say as if *everyone* would be watching Twitter, which is clearly not the case. > Fact: I reached out to several people at ARIN and elsewhere trying to get a > live person at NANOG to no avail. ARIN is a completely different org, however. YMMV. > Fact: If I was still running the AHBL, NANOG would be it's own private > intranet right now. This is not necessary, when you can just reverse your subscription by cancelling it. Just follow the link from the List-Unsubscribe header. If you would be running an AHBL, then you know how to look at an e-mail message and see its full headers, right? -- -JH From A.L.M.Buxey at lboro.ac.uk Mon Oct 26 23:27:13 2015 From: A.L.M.Buxey at lboro.ac.uk (Alan Buxey) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 23:27:13 +0000 Subject: The spam is real In-Reply-To: <562EA33B.3000303@invaluement.com> References: <562E7E37.9060603@gmail.com> <562EA33B.3000303@invaluement.com> Message-ID: There's also probably a large number of people gnashing their teeth that all of these compromised sites have been so readily identified by a very basic spam scam. A massive waste of opportunity for real black hats.... alan From kmedcalf at dessus.com Mon Oct 26 23:31:09 2015 From: kmedcalf at dessus.com (Keith Medcalf) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 17:31:09 -0600 Subject: Why is NANOG not being blacklisted like any other provider that sent 500 spam messages in 3 days? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Myth: blah blah blah social media is a bad way to get ahold of > netops/abuse. > Fact: Social media is an acceptable way to report abuse. My marketing > department certainly knows how to get ahold of me when such an issue > occurs. It's 2015, and if you and everyone you know isn't watching twitter > I can't help you, because you've gone braindead. Whats a Twitter? Is it IRC on a web-page for the addle, sort of like a "web-forum" is Usenet for the addle? Never used a "Twitter". Web Forums rately. The 1 D 10 T quotient is too high .. From A.L.M.Buxey at lboro.ac.uk Mon Oct 26 23:33:16 2015 From: A.L.M.Buxey at lboro.ac.uk (Alan Buxey) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 23:33:16 +0000 Subject: Why is NANOG not being blacklisted like any other provider that sent 500 spam messages in 3 days? In-Reply-To: <9FCFB8F6-C32A-42DF-81B1-6F9828D9FC5B@ianai.net> References: <9FCFB8F6-C32A-42DF-81B1-6F9828D9FC5B@ianai.net> Message-ID: I was looking out for the sub-Reddit thread ;) alan From rob at invaluement.com Mon Oct 26 23:37:00 2015 From: rob at invaluement.com (Rob McEwen) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 19:37:00 -0400 Subject: improved NANOG filtering In-Reply-To: References: <00005fb8b242$d3c6d8aa$13525c88$@jdlabs.fr> <20151026160613.GC6261@57.rev.meerval.net> <562E7331.7040700@invaluement.com> Message-ID: <562EB91C.1010405@invaluement.com> On 10/26/2015 5:15 PM, Patrick W. Gilmore wrote: > And the first person who says ?who has seen $URL? or similar in a message gets bounced, then bitches about ?operational nature? of NANOG. > > I think it is probably not a great idea to add things like URI checkers to NANOG. We can bitch & moan about people supposed to modify it to hxxp or whatever, but reality is people like to copy/paste and this is not unreasonable on NANOG. That is a good point. Personally, I think whole spam samples should be linked to a pastebin post. and individual references to a spammer's domain or ip should have a space inserted before each dot. What can be frustrating when this isn't done ... is that discussions about spam can intermittently get filtered on the client side, sometimes by active participants in a thread... and inconsistently. which is frustrating... and which is why everyone OUGHT to use such tactics when providing spam samples or when discussing spammy IPs or domains. But you're correct. Filtering on the server side of lists is not as simple as it sounds due to the risk of mistakenly blocking legit messages in a discussion about spam. Still, it may not be as problematic as you think to deploy such measures. When the sender gets a rejection notice, they often figure out what happened and resend with the spam obfuscated, fwiw. If someone complains, tell them that they should have known to obfuscate the spam (or spammy domain or IP), or post the spam sample to pastebin As least, that is my suggestion. But I know there isn't an easy answer to this. -- Rob McEwen From shrdlu at deaddrop.org Mon Oct 26 23:39:46 2015 From: shrdlu at deaddrop.org (Shrdlu) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 16:39:46 -0700 Subject: NANOG list attack In-Reply-To: <20151026220055.GG24841@22.rev.meerval.net> References: <562E7C51.509@merit.edu> <20151026220055.GG24841@22.rev.meerval.net> Message-ID: <562EB9C2.9050007@deaddrop.org> On 10/26/2015 3:00 PM, Job Snijders wrote: > On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 03:17:37PM -0400, Larry Blunk wrote: >> Just wanted to apologize for the attack over the weekend. The >> posts came from a email address that was subscribed to the list, so >> it was not subjected to moderation. While a filter was added >> to block further posts (which were made in a short time window), >> there were existing message queues that were not cleared in a >> timely basis. > To add to that: several people reached out off-list, offering help and > recommendations. We'll be following those up in the next few days. Thank > you for your support! I'd made a post to the members list, in the vain hope that it was on a different server, and perhaps might go through (and it certainly did, bright and early this morning). There's a couple of things I'd said that are worth noting here. For those who didn't visit the archives, where it was at least possible to see that the deluge was noticed by folks, I'd suggest a quick look. http://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2015-October/date.html In my very unscientific method of knowing approximately how many lines were visible in my browser, I guesstimate that there were about 1750 messages, and they were issued in the span of perhaps twenty minutes (perhaps less), before the alarm bells went off, and the problem was addressed. From start: http://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2015-October/080150.html to finish: http://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2015-October/081902.html For those who quickly looked at the archives, it was clear that others had noticed that there was a problem (I even had off list emails with a couple of them). I might have been more draconian in the clean up (i.e. purge the queues, including valid emails), but honestly, that was a pretty tough assault, and it's a good object lesson on what might happen. You *are* all updating your security approaches and data recovery plans, right? Thanks to both Job Snijders and Larry Blunk. The check is in the mail. :-} -- Coffee, coffee, everywhere, And all the cups did clink; Coffee, coffee, everywhere, Nor any drop to drink. (Apologies to Coleridge) From A.L.M.Buxey at lboro.ac.uk Mon Oct 26 23:39:47 2015 From: A.L.M.Buxey at lboro.ac.uk (Alan Buxey) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 23:39:47 +0000 Subject: EyeBall View In-Reply-To: <20151026201809.6EC383B24F72@rock.dv.isc.org> References: <1690436996-1445802591-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1432441011-@b13.c3.bise6.blackberry> <20151026201809.6EC383B24F72@rock.dv.isc.org> Message-ID: <862A6B56-F634-4133-A258-BA12E4E6B1BF@lboro.ac.uk> Indeed. They just need more places across the world hosting Anchors :) alan From larrysheldon at cox.net Mon Oct 26 23:40:17 2015 From: larrysheldon at cox.net (Larry Sheldon) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 18:40:17 -0500 Subject: Why is NANOG not being blacklisted like any other provider that sent 500 spam messages in 3 days? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <562EB9E1.2080005@cox.net> On 10/26/2015 18:31, Keith Medcalf wrote: > >> Myth: blah blah blah social media is a bad way to get ahold of >> netops/abuse. >> Fact: Social media is an acceptable way to report abuse. My marketing >> department certainly knows how to get ahold of me when such an issue >> occurs. It's 2015, and if you and everyone you know isn't watching twitter >> I can't help you, because you've gone braindead. > > Whats a Twitter? Is it IRC on a web-page for the addle, sort of like a "web-forum" is Usenet for the addle? > > Never used a "Twitter". Web Forums rately. The 1 D 10 T quotient is too high .. The Pony Express has been dead for years, what DO you use if email doesn't work? -- sed quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (Juvenal) From mehmet at akcin.net Mon Oct 26 23:40:56 2015 From: mehmet at akcin.net (Mehmet Akcin) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 16:40:56 -0700 Subject: NANOG list attack In-Reply-To: <20151026220055.GG24841@22.rev.meerval.net> References: <562E7C51.509@merit.edu> <20151026220055.GG24841@22.rev.meerval.net> Message-ID: Thank you team On Monday, October 26, 2015, Job Snijders wrote: > On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 03:17:37PM -0400, Larry Blunk wrote: > > Just wanted to apologize for the attack over the weekend. The > > posts came from a email address that was subscribed to the list, so > > it was not subjected to moderation. While a filter was added > > to block further posts (which were made in a short time window), > > there were existing message queues that were not cleared in a > > timely basis. > > > > As Job Snijders (a fellow Communications Committee member) noted > > in an earlier post, we will be implementing some additional protection > > mechanisms to prevent this style of incident from happening again. We > > will be more aggressively moderating posts from addresses who have > > not posted recently, in addition to other filtering mechanisms. > > To add to that: several people reached out off-list, offering help and > recommendations. We'll be following those up in the next few days. Thank > you for your support! > > Some people found the admins at nanog.org readership > unresponsive, but I > assure you this is not the case under normal circumstances. The admins > mail distribution was clogged up for the same reasons as the main list. > We'll work on improving our reachability. > > Kind regards, > > Job > From jared at puck.nether.net Mon Oct 26 23:47:29 2015 From: jared at puck.nether.net (Jared Mauch) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 19:47:29 -0400 Subject: Why is NANOG not being blacklisted like any other provider that sent 500 spam messages in 3 days? In-Reply-To: References: <9FCFB8F6-C32A-42DF-81B1-6F9828D9FC5B@ianai.net> Message-ID: Gopher or Archie anyone? These newfangled things confuse me. http://youtu.be/V8YBuwmtzYE Jared Mauch > On Oct 26, 2015, at 7:33 PM, Alan Buxey wrote: > > I was looking out for the sub-Reddit thread ;) > > alan From briansupport at hotmail.com Tue Oct 27 00:12:53 2015 From: briansupport at hotmail.com (Brian R) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 17:12:53 -0700 Subject: NANOG list attack In-Reply-To: <562E7C51.509@merit.edu> References: <562E7C51.509@merit.edu> Message-ID: Thank you Larry and Job for the responses, mitigation steps taken, and work to further resolve these kind of events. Food for thought for the rest of us out there. Had there been a network attack on Sunday (for example) and several of these lists (multiple received this spam "attack") were switched to require a moderator to filter all emails manually. How quickly would information have gotten out through the networking community? No NANOG and Outages are not the only places I check or subscribe to but I DO check them to see if anyone else is reporting anything. And they are some of the places I would report real network problems to. For me this didn't kill my weekend or destroy my ability to check my emails. I know for many others it didn't either. I use my android mail client to group emails with the same subject and after checking multiple of them I didn't worry about those threads anymore. Yes I received several hundred emails about it but I was still able to function and watch for anything that came in that would note a threat to the network as a whole. Maybe if this event has caused such a stir and inconvenience we should look at what we are doing and how we are doing it. These lists are tools that can be valuable to get information out to a large group of people. Anything that would block that I would consider a threat to the purpose of the list as well. This event caused blockage as well and the NANOG staff are looking into mitigation for that. Thank you Brian > To: nanog at nanog.org > From: ljb at merit.edu > Subject: NANOG list attack > Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 15:17:37 -0400 > > > All, > Just wanted to apologize for the attack over the weekend. The > posts came from a email address that was subscribed to the list, so > it was not subjected to moderation. While a filter was added > to block further posts (which were made in a short time window), > there were existing message queues that were not cleared in a > timely basis. > > As Job Snijders (a fellow Communications Committee member) noted > in an earlier post, we will be implementing some additional protection > mechanisms to prevent this style of incident from happening again. We > will be more aggressively moderating posts from addresses who have > not posted recently, in addition to other filtering mechanisms. > > Regards, > Larry Blunk > NANOG Communications Committee > Admins at nanog.org From mawatari at jpix.ad.jp Tue Oct 27 00:25:39 2015 From: mawatari at jpix.ad.jp (MAWATARI Masataka) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 09:25:39 +0900 Subject: [reminder] JANOG37 Meeting Call for Presentations In-Reply-To: <20150925133618.C951.8FE1F57E@jpix.ad.jp> References: <20150925133618.C951.8FE1F57E@jpix.ad.jp> Message-ID: <20151027092539.E1AB.8FE1F57E@jpix.ad.jp> Hello, JANOG37 Meeting will take place on 20-22 January 2016 in Nagoya, Japan. http://www.janog.gr.jp/en/index.php?JANOG37_Meeting JANOG is making a call for presentations. We are still looking for presentation proposals! CFP deadline is 14:59 Fri 30 October [UTC]. Let us know if you have any questions : meeting-37[at]janog.gr.jp Taiji Tsuchiya, Masataka Mawatari JANOG37 Programme Committee Co-Chairs * On Fri, 25 Sep 2015 13:36:19 +0900 * MAWATARI Masataka wrote: > Hello, > > JANOG37 Meeting will take place on 20-22 January 2016 in Nagoya, > Japan. > > http://www.janog.gr.jp/en/index.php?JANOG37_Meeting > > > JANOG is making a call for presentations until 30 October 2015. > Our meetings are in Japanese but we have had several non-Japanese > speakers who made presentations in the past. > > We are looking forward to your proposals for presentations. > > > Taiji Tsuchiya, Masataka Mawatari > JANOG37 Programme Committee Co-Chairs > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > ** JANOG37 MEETING > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > - Host : CHUBU TELECOMMUNICATIONS CO.,INC. > - Date : 20 Jan., 2016 - 22 Jan., 2016 > - Venue : NTK Hall > - Address : 1-15-1 Kanayamacho, Naka-ku, Nagoya, Japan. > - Fees : JANOG37 Meeting (20-22 Jan): Free > Social event (in the evening on 21 Jan): 6,000JPY > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > ** HOW TO SUBMIT PRESENTATIONS > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > If you are interested to give a presentation, submissions are welcome > via e-mail at:"meeting-37[at]janog.gr.jp" with the following > information. > > 1. Speaker's name(s) > 2. Speaker's organization(s) > 3. Preferred contact email address > 4. Submission category (General Session or Panel Session) > * If your choice is panel, please tell us the number of speakers > 5. Presentation title > 6. Abstract > 7. Desired presentation time and discussion time > 8. Slides (attachment or URL), in PowerPoint or PDF format. > > Our Meetings are in Japanese, so non-Japanese speakers usually arrange > an informal interpreter. > If you are interested in making a presentation at JANOG but cannot > arrange an interpreter by yourself, you could consult with us at: > "meeting-37[at]janog.gr.jp". Although we cannot guarantee, we may be > able to help you on volunteer basis. > Let us know if you have any questions : meeting-37[at]janog.gr.jp > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > ** THE KEY DATE FOR JANOG37 SUBMISSIONS > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > CFP Deadline : 30 October 23:59 JST > The Program Committee will notify you after 16th November about your > submission. > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > ** VISA > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Foreign visitor entering Japan must have a passport which has valid > period during you stay in Japan. Passport holders from some countries > are required to have a visa to visit Japan before they depart toward > Japan. Many are exempt from this requirement and can get their visa on > entry to Japan. Please determine whether you are exempt from the visa > requirement. > > Please refer to the official website from Ministry of Foreign Affairs > of Japan or any other appropriate website to get more information > about Visa application. Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Japan - Guide > to Japanese Visas http://www.mofa.go.jp/j_info/visit/visa/index.html > > List of Countries and Regions for Visa Exemptions > http://www.mofa.go.jp/j_info/visit/visa/short/novisa.html > > Please note that JANOG can not assist you with your visa application. > If you have any questions about the meeting, please feel free to > contact meeting-37[at]janog.gr.jp. > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > ** ABOUT JANOG > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > JANOG webpage in English is available at: http://www.janog.gr.jp/en/ > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From sean at donelan.com Tue Oct 27 00:31:14 2015 From: sean at donelan.com (Sean Donelan) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 20:31:14 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Satellites and submarine cables Message-ID: Since the weekend's list problems seem to have died down. How about some infrastructure news. http://spacenews.com/from-russia-some-unofficial-assurance-about-lurking-luch-satellites-intent/ >From Russia, Unofficial Assurance about Intent of Lurking Luch Satellite http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/26/world/europe/russian-presence-near-undersea-cables-concerns-us.html Russian Ships Near Data Cables Are Too Close for U.S. Comfort This seems to be a case of "I know you can see me, and I can see you." Its not new. Multiple countries have demostrated submarine and satellite capabilities over the decades ... more submarines than satellites. But generally everyone has more to lose than gain. What is different is the increasingly public rhetoric. Occasional satellites or submarine cable disruptions haven't had long term impact on the US mainland due to US connectivity options. Carriers serving the US mainland regularly have outages and repair submarine cable and satellite problems. But countries with less connectivity options could get pushed around more, along the lines of "Make him an offer he can't refuse." Some of the public rhetoric may be for allies. From list at satchell.net Tue Oct 27 00:32:30 2015 From: list at satchell.net (Stephen Satchell) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 17:32:30 -0700 Subject: Why is NANOG not being blacklisted like any other provider that sent 500 spam messages in 3 days? In-Reply-To: <562EB9E1.2080005@cox.net> References: <562EB9E1.2080005@cox.net> Message-ID: <562EC61E.6060503@satchell.net> On 10/26/2015 04:40 PM, Larry Sheldon wrote: >> Whats a Twitter? Is it IRC on a web-page for the addle, sort of like >> a "web-forum" is Usenet for the addle? >> >> Never used a "Twitter". Web Forums rately. The 1 D 10 T quotient is >> too high .. > > The Pony Express has been dead for years, what DO you use if email > doesn't work? There is this funny piece of plastic (used to be rubber) that is ubiquitous. And works a hell of a lot more often than the Internet, frankly, especially if you don't use the Internet version (SIP). I concur with "What's a 'Twitter'" -- I watched a colleague get fired because of that, along with something called "The Facebook". From octalnanog at alvarezp.org Tue Oct 27 01:40:07 2015 From: octalnanog at alvarezp.org (Octavio Alvarez) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 18:40:07 -0700 Subject: AW: Uptick in spam In-Reply-To: <1aef7cbfffb84dea8461f0c40db9bcec@anx-i-dag02.anx.local> References: <20151026120657.67ecf0ca@jpeach-desktop.anbg.mssm.edu> <1aef7cbfffb84dea8461f0c40db9bcec@anx-i-dag02.anx.local> Message-ID: <562ED5F7.6040300@alvarezp.org> On 26/10/15 11:38, J?rgen Jaritsch wrote: > Hi, > > I added this two lines to our postfix header checks: > > /mike at sentex\.net/ DISCARD > /jdenoy at jdlabs\.fr/ DISCARD > > Worked very well: > > # grep -i discard /var/log/mail.log | grep -iE "@jdlabs|@sentex" | wc -l > 408 But it is originating all from different IP addresses. Who knows if this is an attack to get *@jdlabs.fr blocked from NANOG and is just getting its goal accomplished. From owen at delong.com Tue Oct 27 02:30:40 2015 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 19:30:40 -0700 Subject: Android lack of DHCPv6 purchasing decisions? In-Reply-To: <562C4C50.5000101@gmail.com> References: <562C4C50.5000101@gmail.com> Message-ID: <934FA30A-7778-4370-ADF4-286522530394@delong.com> If your enterprise depends on DHCPv6 for a variety of NAC or other related things, then it?s not so absurd to prohibit a platform that fails to support it. OTOH, Apple refuses to implement 464Xlat, which (at least so far) means no IPv6 on T-Mo due to opposing brain damage on the T-Mo side. So far, you generally can?t win. Owen > On Oct 24, 2015, at 20:28 , Eric wrote: > > Hi All, > > I have a question for people that deal with mobile devices in > enterprise. Have you decided not to purchase Android devices due to the > lack of DHCPv6 support and consider Apple or some other vendor devices > instead? > > It's been thrown around here, discussed and it's absurd so I'm curious > what business purchasing decisions it has lead to now. > > Thanks From dovid at telecurve.com Tue Oct 27 02:34:02 2015 From: dovid at telecurve.com (Dovid Bender) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 02:34:02 +0000 Subject: EyeBall View Message-ID: <1826229041-1445913242-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-693237723-@b11.c1.bise6.blackberry> All, Sorry for not clarifying. Of course we have probes and looking glasses from the edge of each others networks. The point was to have devices where we could see how our content loaded and behaved. For instance if a Verizon user tries to place a VoIP call to my network what would the quality be like? If we did a wget what speeds are coming across to the end user etc. We would offer a service where you would experience what your end clients experienced interacting with your network. Of course there would be mtr/traceroutes etc but that's a given. ------Original Message------ From: James Bensley Sender: NANOG To: nanog Subject: Re: EyeBall View Sent: Oct 26, 2015 13:45 These are "open" projects that ISPs can join to monitor performance between networks, I would recommend joining those instead of reinventing the wheel. I don't how much scope or interest there would be just for a raw speed test between networks though, however if enough networks really wanted it you could talk to the guys running the NL Ring (if it isn't already a feature, you could develop it there). https://ring.nlnog.net/ https://atlas.ripe.net/ I'm not sure if RIPE allow ISPs from outside Europe to join the Atlas project, if not ARIN could start one, it's been very successful here in Europe. Cheers, James. Regards, Dovid From bzs at world.std.com Tue Oct 27 02:56:07 2015 From: bzs at world.std.com (Barry Shein) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 22:56:07 -0400 Subject: improved NANOG filtering In-Reply-To: References: <00005fb8b242$d3c6d8aa$13525c88$@jdlabs.fr> <20151026160613.GC6261@57.rev.meerval.net> <562E7331.7040700@invaluement.com> Message-ID: <22062.59335.324679.431741@world.std.com> What's needed is 20 (pick a number) trusted volunteer admins with the mailman password whose only capacity is to (make a list: put the list into moderation mode, disable an acct). Obviously it would be nice if the software could help with this (limited privileges, logging) but it could be done just on trust with a small group. Another list to announce between them ("got it!") would be useful also. -- -Barry Shein The World | bzs at TheWorld.com | http://www.TheWorld.com Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 800-THE-WRLD | Dial-Up: US, PR, Canada Software Tool & Die | Public Access Internet | SINCE 1989 *oo* From freedman at freedman.net Tue Oct 27 03:08:00 2015 From: freedman at freedman.net (Avi Freedman) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 23:08:00 -0400 (EDT) Subject: EyeBall View Message-ID: <20151027030800.DA8BC550C59EC@freedman.net> > All, > > I had an idea to create a product where we would have a host on every EyeBall network. Customers could then connect to these hosts and check connectivity back to their network. For instance you may want to see what the speed is like from CableVision in central NJ to your network in South Florida or the latency etc. I go large scale I wanted to know how much demand there was for such a service. > > Regards, > > Dovid Another approach to take is to enable monitoring of your infrastructure, and then do active tests on top to web servers and other end points. Passive instrumentation gives you the even bigger advantage of giving you insight into issues actually affecting your users' traffic. Just did a talk about this at NANOG 65: https://www.nanog.org/sites/default/files/monday_general_freedman_flow.pdf If you set up a tap or SPAN and grab a box with Intel (or many other kinds of NICs), you can use PF_RING and nprobe to monitor at 100gig+ speeds. For nprobe in particular as an "agent", some of the extended/augmented data you can get via NetFlow includes: http://www.ntop.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/nProbe_UserGuide.pdf [NFv9 57595][IPFIX 35632.123] %CLIENT_NW_DELAY_MS Network latency client <-> nprobe (msec) [NFv9 57596][IPFIX 35632.124] %SERVER_NW_DELAY_MS Network latency nprobe <-> server (residual msec) [NFv9 57597][IPFIX 35632.125] %APPL_LATENCY_MS Application latency (msec) [NFv9 57581][IPFIX 35632.109] %RETRANSMITTED_IN_PKTS Number of retransmitted TCP flow packets (src->dst) [NFv9 57582][IPFIX 35632.110] %RETRANSMITTED_OUT_PKTS Number of retransmitted TCP flow packets (dst->src) [NFv9 57583][IPFIX 35632.111] %OOORDER_IN_PKTS Number of out of order TCP flow packets (dst->src) [NFv9 57584][IPFIX 35632.112] %OOORDER_OUT_PKTS Number of out of order TCP flow packets (dst->src) [NFv9 57585][IPFIX 35632.113] %UNTUNNELED_PROTOCOL Untunneled IP protocol byte The NANOG PPT shows an example of some of the slicing and dicing you can then do (focused around retransmitted TCP packets, which is what most of our customers are interested in focusing on as a simple proxy metric for 'network performance'). Not soliciting flames on what the magic metrics should be - store them all and use the ones that best correlate for you :) Luca/ntop are actively working on nprobe, so I'm sure you could get him to add throughput and other metrics as ell. Also - The same approach should work with Cisco AVC on ASRs, though it's something we're just starting to test and may only work with specific sets of filters (vs blanket apply to 40gig of traffic through an ASR). Definitely curious if anyone in the NANOG community has tried AVC? Or any other switch/router-layer performance instrumentation? We've been interested in putting an agent on some of the Linux white box switches, but the Broadcom chips in the current gens don't allow 'flow sampling' - getting all headers or none for a flow, for a % of flows matching a profile. And that's needed to do retransmit/OOO/latency tracking (vs just seeing samples of packets across flows). Again, pointers to switches that have that capability and can run *nix apps would be appreciated :) Avi Freedman CEO, Kentik avi at kentik dot com From randy at psg.com Tue Oct 27 03:16:35 2015 From: randy at psg.com (Randy Bush) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 12:16:35 +0900 Subject: The spam is real In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: now that the number of messages discussing the spam has exceed the number of spam messages, perhaps we can get back to work and hope that the list admins have learned something. randy From trelane at trelane.net Tue Oct 27 03:26:58 2015 From: trelane at trelane.net (Andrew Kirch) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 23:26:58 -0400 Subject: Uptick in spam In-Reply-To: References: <562E5182.6090102@protrafsolutions.com> Message-ID: not even close to more discussing than from the original spam. Not even close. On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 4:57 PM, Steve Mikulasik wrote: > I think there might be more emails discussing the spam, than the actual > spam itself. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces at nanog.org] On Behalf Of Ian Smith > Sent: Monday, October 26, 2015 12:34 PM > To: Paras > Cc: nanog at nanog.org > Subject: Re: Uptick in spam > > Filtering *@jdlabs.fr did the trick for me. > > Of course, now I have to write a much more complex filter to hide all the > complaining about NANOG spam :) > > Ian Smith > ________________________________________ > > 161 South St. Hightstown, NJ > 201-315-1316 phone > ian.w.smith at gmail.com > > On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 12:14 PM, Paras > wrote: > > > I see it too, there are some 517 messages in my spam folder "New message" > > > > Most of them get blocked, but a small fraction are still making it > > into my inbox > > > > > > On 10/25/2015 12:13 AM, anthony kasza wrote: > > > >> Has there been a recent uptick in crap sent to the list or is it just > me? > >> Is there anything that we can do to filter these messages with junk > links? > >> > >> -AK > >> > > > > > > > > From larrysheldon at cox.net Tue Oct 27 03:42:37 2015 From: larrysheldon at cox.net (Larry Sheldon) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 22:42:37 -0500 Subject: The spam is real In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <562EF2AD.7070200@cox.net> On 10/26/2015 22:16, Randy Bush wrote: > now that the number of messages discussing the spam has exceed the > number of spam messages, perhaps we can get back to work and hope that > the list admins have learned something. A couple of factoids that might be useful in realizing the hope. The mail handler at Cox cable correctly binned about 600 of them--I don't remember setting relevant customization, but I can check if anybody cares. And I found messages reporting the problem Saturday. And one that said the problem (as my failing memory wants to believe) started about a month ago. -- sed quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (Juvenal) From larrysheldon at cox.net Tue Oct 27 03:45:20 2015 From: larrysheldon at cox.net (Larry Sheldon) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 22:45:20 -0500 Subject: Uptick in spam In-Reply-To: References: <562E5182.6090102@protrafsolutions.com> Message-ID: <562EF350.5060504@cox.net> On 10/26/2015 22:26, Andrew Kirch wrote: > not even close to more discussing than from the original spam. Not even > close. Not even in the same order of magnitude, I don't think. -- sed quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (Juvenal) From jim at reptiles.org Tue Oct 27 03:59:13 2015 From: jim at reptiles.org (Jim Mercer) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 23:59:13 -0400 Subject: thank you Re: spam smackdown? In-Reply-To: References: <20151024193938.93377B49@m0086238.ppops.net> Message-ID: <20151027035913.GA30258@reptiles.org> On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 03:03:26PM -0400, Patrick W. Gilmore wrote: > 3) Anyone who feels this is so frickin??? bad it is unbearable, and knows they could do SO MUCH BETTER themselves, should volunteer for the Communications Committee. Otherwise, everyone should thank the unpaid volunteers for their gracious and excellent work day after day, year after year. Or just STFU. > > For my part, I would just like to thank the CC members. I think they do a most amazing job, and deserve of humblest gratitude. hear hear! -- Jim Mercer Reptilian Research jim at reptiles.org +1 416 410-5633 Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride!" -- Hunter S. Thompson From gtaylor at tnetconsulting.net Tue Oct 27 04:55:53 2015 From: gtaylor at tnetconsulting.net (Grant Taylor) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 22:55:53 -0600 Subject: Why is NANOG not being blacklisted like any other provider that sent 500 spam messages in 3 days? In-Reply-To: <562EB9E1.2080005@cox.net> References: <562EB9E1.2080005@cox.net> Message-ID: <562F03D9.9090806@tnetconsulting.net> On 10/26/2015 05:40 PM, Larry Sheldon wrote: > The Pony Express has been dead for years, what DO you use if email > doesn't work? Usenet & email via UUCP. -- Grant. . . . unix || die P.S. Sorry, I couldn't resist. From ag4ve.us at gmail.com Tue Oct 27 07:25:09 2015 From: ag4ve.us at gmail.com (shawn wilson) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 03:25:09 -0400 Subject: improved NANOG filtering In-Reply-To: <22062.59335.324679.431741@world.std.com> References: <00005fb8b242$d3c6d8aa$13525c88$@jdlabs.fr> <20151026160613.GC6261@57.rev.meerval.net> <562E7331.7040700@invaluement.com> <22062.59335.324679.431741@world.std.com> Message-ID: AFAIK (IDK how either) this hasn't been a big issue in the past few years. Is it really worth worrying about? I notified the MARC admin and it was removed there within a few hours too - a dozen easily tracked messages in a few hours and a few hours after that, it's done (or more like, filteres). Not sure how much actually happens on the backend to keep this list as clean as it appears. But if everyone on that end of things decided to grab a beer at the same time and we have to suffer a little for a badly timed cold one every few years, I'm good with the status quo. On Oct 26, 2015 10:58 PM, "Barry Shein" wrote: > > What's needed is 20 (pick a number) trusted volunteer admins with the > mailman password whose only capacity is to (make a list: put the list > into moderation mode, disable an acct). > > Obviously it would be nice if the software could help with this > (limited privileges, logging) but it could be done just on trust with > a small group. > > Another list to announce between them ("got it!") would be useful > also. > > -- > -Barry Shein > > The World | bzs at TheWorld.com | > http://www.TheWorld.com > Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 800-THE-WRLD | Dial-Up: US, PR, > Canada > Software Tool & Die | Public Access Internet | SINCE 1989 *oo* > From marcel.duregards at yahoo.fr Tue Oct 27 07:31:33 2015 From: marcel.duregards at yahoo.fr (marcel.duregards at yahoo.fr) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 08:31:33 +0100 Subject: BGP hold timer on IX LAN Message-ID: <562F2855.3060603@yahoo.fr> Hello, As all of us know BGP was designed for scalability, thus slow convergence. But it was also when CPU was slow :-). What do you think about the standard eBGP hold timer of 180sec ? Conservative ? I'm asking because we see more and more peering partners which force the hold timer to a lower value, and when BGP negotiate the timer, the lowest hold timer is the winner. Shall we all decide that for global faster convergence we should ALL decrease the hold timer ? Or those guys which are lowering their (and our) timers on IX LAN play a dangerous game ? See a example of our peering router at AMS-IX (hold from 30s to 180s): ...... BGP neighbor is 193.239.116.13x, remote AS 12x54, external link Last read 00:00:42, last write 00:00:13, hold time is 180, keepalive interval is 60 seconds BGP neighbor is 193.239.116.13x, remote AS 31x77, external link Last read 00:00:09, last write 00:00:03, hold time is 90, keepalive interval is 30 seconds BGP neighbor is 193.239.116.13x, remote AS 4x562, external link Last read 00:00:30, last write 00:00:07, hold time is 180, keepalive interval is 60 seconds BGP neighbor is 193.239.116.14x, remote AS 4x350, external link Last read 00:00:01, last write 00:00:01, hold time is 30, keepalive interval is 10 seconds BGP neighbor is 193.239.116.14x, remote AS 341x1, external link Last read 00:00:09, last write 00:00:27, hold time is 180, keepalive interval is 60 seconds BGP neighbor is 193.239.116.14x, remote AS 2x028, external link Last read 00:00:00, last write 00:00:21, hold time is 180, keepalive interval is 60 seconds BGP neighbor is 193.239.116.15x, remote AS 41x52, external link Last read 00:00:27, last write 00:00:11, hold time is 90, keepalive interval is 30 seconds BGP neighbor is 193.239.116.18x, remote AS 1x041, external link Last read 00:00:20, last write 00:00:14, hold time is 90, keepalive interval is 30 seconds BGP neighbor is 193.239.116.18x, remote AS 162x8, external link Last read 00:00:28, last write 00:00:06, hold time is 180, keepalive interval is 60 seconds BGP neighbor is 193.239.116.20x, remote AS 47x86, external link Last read 00:00:59, last write 00:00:21, hold time is 180, keepalive interval is 60 seconds BGP neighbor is 193.239.116.21x, remote AS x3350, external link Last read 00:00:02, last write 00:00:01, hold time is 30, keepalive interval is 10 seconds BGP neighbor is 193.239.116.24x, remote AS x5133, external link Last read 00:00:24, last write 00:00:03, hold time is 90, keepalive interval is 30 seconds ..... I've somehow basically anonymized ip and AS just in case I'm not allowed to publish those details. Best Regards, -Marcel From shopik at inblock.ru Tue Oct 27 07:57:00 2015 From: shopik at inblock.ru (Nikolay Shopik) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 10:57:00 +0300 Subject: BGP hold timer on IX LAN In-Reply-To: <562F2855.3060603@yahoo.fr> References: <562F2855.3060603@yahoo.fr> Message-ID: BFD is your friend. Yes it's require both parties to understand it but it much better than 30sec hold time. BIRD already have support for BFD > On 27 ???. 2015 ?., at 10:31, "marcel.duregards at yahoo.fr" wrote: > > Hello, > > As all of us know BGP was designed for scalability, thus slow convergence. But it was also when CPU was slow :-). > > What do you think about the standard eBGP hold timer of 180sec ? Conservative ? > > I'm asking because we see more and more peering partners which force the hold timer to a lower value, and when BGP negotiate the timer, the lowest hold timer is the winner. > > Shall we all decide that for global faster convergence we should ALL decrease the hold timer ? Or those guys which are lowering their (and our) timers on IX LAN play a dangerous game ? > > > See a example of our peering router at AMS-IX (hold from 30s to 180s): > > > ...... > BGP neighbor is 193.239.116.13x, remote AS 12x54, external link > Last read 00:00:42, last write 00:00:13, hold time is 180, keepalive interval is 60 seconds > > BGP neighbor is 193.239.116.13x, remote AS 31x77, external link > Last read 00:00:09, last write 00:00:03, hold time is 90, keepalive interval is 30 seconds > > BGP neighbor is 193.239.116.13x, remote AS 4x562, external link > Last read 00:00:30, last write 00:00:07, hold time is 180, keepalive interval is 60 seconds > > BGP neighbor is 193.239.116.14x, remote AS 4x350, external link > Last read 00:00:01, last write 00:00:01, hold time is 30, keepalive interval is 10 seconds > > BGP neighbor is 193.239.116.14x, remote AS 341x1, external link > Last read 00:00:09, last write 00:00:27, hold time is 180, keepalive interval is 60 seconds > > BGP neighbor is 193.239.116.14x, remote AS 2x028, external link > Last read 00:00:00, last write 00:00:21, hold time is 180, keepalive interval is 60 seconds > > BGP neighbor is 193.239.116.15x, remote AS 41x52, external link > Last read 00:00:27, last write 00:00:11, hold time is 90, keepalive interval is 30 seconds > > BGP neighbor is 193.239.116.18x, remote AS 1x041, external link > Last read 00:00:20, last write 00:00:14, hold time is 90, keepalive interval is 30 seconds > > BGP neighbor is 193.239.116.18x, remote AS 162x8, external link > Last read 00:00:28, last write 00:00:06, hold time is 180, keepalive interval is 60 seconds > > BGP neighbor is 193.239.116.20x, remote AS 47x86, external link > Last read 00:00:59, last write 00:00:21, hold time is 180, keepalive interval is 60 seconds > > BGP neighbor is 193.239.116.21x, remote AS x3350, external link > Last read 00:00:02, last write 00:00:01, hold time is 30, keepalive interval is 10 seconds > > BGP neighbor is 193.239.116.24x, remote AS x5133, external link > Last read 00:00:24, last write 00:00:03, hold time is 90, keepalive interval is 30 seconds > > ..... > > > I've somehow basically anonymized ip and AS just in case I'm not allowed to publish those details. > > > Best Regards, > -Marcel From nick at foobar.org Tue Oct 27 08:20:05 2015 From: nick at foobar.org (Nick Hilliard) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 09:20:05 +0100 Subject: BGP hold timer on IX LAN In-Reply-To: <562F2855.3060603@yahoo.fr> References: <562F2855.3060603@yahoo.fr> Message-ID: <562F33B5.7090005@foobar.org> On 27/10/2015 08:31, marcel.duregards at yahoo.fr wrote: > I'm asking because we see more and more peering partners which force the > hold timer to a lower value, and when BGP negotiate the timer, the lowest > hold timer is the winner. You need to be careful with this. On larger IXPs, there will be a wide variety of kit with different capabilities, which will usually work well in most circumstances, but which may not have enough cpu power to handle edge cases like e.g. ixp maintenance or flaps when you get large amounts of bgp activity. A low bgp timer might be fine for, say an asr9k or an mx960 with the latest RE/RSP, but would be actively harmful if one of your peers is using an mx80 or a sup720. Nick From colinj at gt86car.org.uk Tue Oct 27 08:42:36 2015 From: colinj at gt86car.org.uk (Colin Johnston) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 08:42:36 +0000 Subject: BGP hold timer on IX LAN In-Reply-To: <562F33B5.7090005@foobar.org> References: <562F2855.3060603@yahoo.fr> <562F33B5.7090005@foobar.org> Message-ID: <31FFA3F8-C7D2-4218-A314-C619944B11FE@gt86car.org.uk> low bgp timers usually done to allow faster hsrp failover result colin Sent from my iPhone > On 27 Oct 2015, at 08:20, Nick Hilliard wrote: > >> On 27/10/2015 08:31, marcel.duregards at yahoo.fr wrote: >> I'm asking because we see more and more peering partners which force the >> hold timer to a lower value, and when BGP negotiate the timer, the lowest >> hold timer is the winner. > > You need to be careful with this. On larger IXPs, there will be a wide > variety of kit with different capabilities, which will usually work well in > most circumstances, but which may not have enough cpu power to handle edge > cases like e.g. ixp maintenance or flaps when you get large amounts of bgp > activity. A low bgp timer might be fine for, say an asr9k or an mx960 with > the latest RE/RSP, but would be actively harmful if one of your peers is > using an mx80 or a sup720. > > Nick > > From rsk at gsp.org Tue Oct 27 10:30:25 2015 From: rsk at gsp.org (Rich Kulawiec) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 06:30:25 -0400 Subject: *tap tap* is this thing on? In-Reply-To: <562E91BB.1060803@2mbit.com> References: <562D5E24.1010704@2mbit.com> <562E60FE.6090402@cox.net> <562E91BB.1060803@2mbit.com> Message-ID: <20151027103025.GA7448@gsp.org> On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 02:48:59PM -0600, Brielle Bruns wrote: > I get it that it is hard for large providers to be proactive about > things going on due to the sheer size of their networks, but come > on. That excuse only works for so long. 1. It's not hard. It's far easier for large providers than small ones, although many of them flat-out lie and claim the opposite. 2. Whatever happened to "never build what you can't control?" If you can't stop your operation from emitting abuse, you should shut it down. Immediately. That's what professionals do. 3. Large providers pretend to be "leaders", but are among the worst in terms of actually leading by example. Just try getting a response from them via postmaster@ or abuse at . Of course these large operations should individually answer *every* message to those addresses promptly, 24x7, and initiate immediate investigation/remediation on *every* complaint. That's baseline operational competence 101, and given their enormous financial and personnel resources, it would require only a tiny amount of resources. But they don't -- and everyone else pays the price for it. ---rsk From mkamal at noor.net Tue Oct 27 10:31:54 2015 From: mkamal at noor.net (Mohamed Kamal) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 12:31:54 +0200 Subject: [Discussion] MTU mismatch and impact of data-plane traffic Message-ID: <562F529A.5020603@noor.net> Suppose you have the below network topology, where PE is connected to P1, P1 is connected to P2 and P2 is connected to GW, all through 1G links. [PE]-1500------------1500-[P1]-1600------------1600-[P2]-1500------------1600-[GW] The numbers represent the MTU values configured in the following order; PE's egress interface to P1, P1 ingress interface, P1 egress interface, P2 ingress, P2 egress and eventually GW ingress. Q1: What do you think would be the impact in terms of data-plane traffic (HTTP/s browsing, Video streaming etc), traversing this network, in the direction from the Internet and going to the PE router? My answer is: If there is a client running Win7 on a machine trying to access a web server out there, the TCP MSS would be adjusted to around 1260-1460 bytes depending on the Operating System's MTU value. Hypothetically, the first packet from the web server destined to the client would be 1460-bytes and will reach the ingress interface of the GW. The GW would receive it in the input_buffer of the ingress interface, strip off the Ethernet header, and move it to the output buffer of the egress interface whose MTU is 1600. Since the largest MSS is 1460, and there is always a one-to-one mapping between segments received from the TCP module and the packets constructed in the IP module, I believe that the largest IP packet would be 1480. GW would cram the Ethernet frame with the 1480-bytes of IP payload data and send it to the P2, which would in the other end, pass it on its way. Q2: However, what about larger MSS sizes? example; above 1500? and larges chunks of payload from a connectionless protocols that don't exchange MSS? UDP for example? or Google's QUIC (which is HTTP over UDP)? -- Mohamed Kamal From A.L.M.Buxey at lboro.ac.uk Tue Oct 27 10:37:59 2015 From: A.L.M.Buxey at lboro.ac.uk (A.L.M.Buxey at lboro.ac.uk) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 10:37:59 +0000 Subject: Uptick in spam In-Reply-To: References: <562E5182.6090102@protrafsolutions.com> Message-ID: <20151027103759.GA20609@lboro.ac.uk> Hi, > not even close to more discussing than from the original spam. Not even > close. data volume wise, the discussion of spam is easily beating the volume of spam (which some people had issue with) as the SPAM emails were very small with just a URL - the discusions about it is now spread into around 6 threads with many pages of text in some messages. alan From ian.w.smith at gmail.com Tue Oct 27 12:09:00 2015 From: ian.w.smith at gmail.com (Ian Smith) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 08:09:00 -0400 Subject: AW: Uptick in spam In-Reply-To: <562ED5F7.6040300@alvarezp.org> References: <20151026120657.67ecf0ca@jpeach-desktop.anbg.mssm.edu> <1aef7cbfffb84dea8461f0c40db9bcec@anx-i-dag02.anx.local> <562ED5F7.6040300@alvarezp.org> Message-ID: On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 9:40 PM, Octavio Alvarez wrote: > On 26/10/15 11:38, J?rgen Jaritsch wrote: > > But it is originating all from different IP addresses. Who knows if this > is an attack to get *@jdlabs.fr blocked from NANOG and is just getting > its goal accomplished. This is the part that's been bugging me. Doesn't the NANOG server implement SPF checking on inbound list mail? jdlabs.fr doesn't appear to have an SPF record published. It seems to me that these messages should have been dropped during the connection. Ian Smith From nanog at ics-il.net Tue Oct 27 12:11:47 2015 From: nanog at ics-il.net (Mike Hammett) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 07:11:47 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Fiber in\near Hoopeston, IL In-Reply-To: <158837557.3190.1445947851414.JavaMail.mhammett@ThunderFuck> Message-ID: <1265529141.3195.1445947989608.JavaMail.mhammett@ThunderFuck> Can we talk about something not SPAM for a minute? Looking for fiber in or near Hoopeston, IL that's not the incumbent. Frontier is the ILEC and it looks like New Wave is the MSO, but New Wave doesn't appear to go to Chicago. I know of networks near 57 and 65 and also McLeod's route to the south. Any other ideas for networks in that area? I'm assuming there aren't any others, but figured I'd ping here before going with the incumbent. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com From rsk at gsp.org Tue Oct 27 12:26:31 2015 From: rsk at gsp.org (Rich Kulawiec) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 08:26:31 -0400 Subject: AW: Uptick in spam In-Reply-To: References: <20151026120657.67ecf0ca@jpeach-desktop.anbg.mssm.edu> <1aef7cbfffb84dea8461f0c40db9bcec@anx-i-dag02.anx.local> <562ED5F7.6040300@alvarezp.org> Message-ID: <20151027122631.GA28774@gsp.org> On Tue, Oct 27, 2015 at 08:09:00AM -0400, Ian Smith wrote: > This is the part that's been bugging me. Doesn't the NANOG server > implement SPF checking on inbound list mail? Don't know, but it doesn't matter: SPF has zero anti-spam value. (I know. I've studied this in ridiculous detail using a very large corpus of spam/nonspam messages over a very long period of time.) There are much better methods available. ---rsk From david at cantrell.org.uk Tue Oct 27 12:06:26 2015 From: david at cantrell.org.uk (David Cantrell) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 12:06:26 +0000 Subject: Why is NANOG not being blacklisted like any other provider that sent 500 spam messages in 3 days? In-Reply-To: <562EAED3.9040508@satchell.net> References: <9FCFB8F6-C32A-42DF-81B1-6F9828D9FC5B@ianai.net> <562EAED3.9040508@satchell.net> Message-ID: <20151027120626.GA8936@bytemark.barnyard.co.uk> On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 03:53:07PM -0700, Stephen Satchell wrote: > Also, if you think what happened was a spam flood, you are very lucky. Ironically - but alas also predictably - I have received far more list traffic griping and moaning about this than I actually got from the spam run. -- David Cantrell | top google result for "internet beard fetish club" Seven o'clock in the morning is something that happens to those less fortunate than me From ju at netzwerklabor.at Tue Oct 27 12:40:24 2015 From: ju at netzwerklabor.at (Jutta Zalud) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 13:40:24 +0100 Subject: Uptick in spam In-Reply-To: References: <20151026120657.67ecf0ca@jpeach-desktop.anbg.mssm.edu> <1aef7cbfffb84dea8461f0c40db9bcec@anx-i-dag02.anx.local> <562ED5F7.6040300@alvarezp.org> Message-ID: <562F70B8.1090702@netzwerklabor.at> Am 27.10.2015 13:09, schrieb Ian Smith: > On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 9:40 PM, Octavio Alvarez > wrote: > >> On 26/10/15 11:38, J?rgen Jaritsch wrote: >> >> > But it is originating all from different IP addresses. Who knows if this >> is an attack to get *@jdlabs.fr blocked from NANOG and is just getting >> its goal accomplished. > > > > This is the part that's been bugging me. Doesn't the NANOG server > implement SPF checking on inbound list mail? jdlabs.fr doesn't appear to > have an SPF record published. It seems to me that these messages should > have been dropped during the connection. If it does (which I don't know), it will probably check the SPF record of the delivering mailserver, which was not *.jdlabs.fr as far as I can see from the mailheaders. Jutta Zalud From ian.w.smith at gmail.com Tue Oct 27 13:08:00 2015 From: ian.w.smith at gmail.com (Ian Smith) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 09:08:00 -0400 Subject: Uptick in spam In-Reply-To: <562F70B8.1090702@netzwerklabor.at> References: <20151026120657.67ecf0ca@jpeach-desktop.anbg.mssm.edu> <1aef7cbfffb84dea8461f0c40db9bcec@anx-i-dag02.anx.local> <562ED5F7.6040300@alvarezp.org> <562F70B8.1090702@netzwerklabor.at> Message-ID: But that's not how SPF works. In SPF, the domain of the envelope header sender address is checked against that domain's sender policy. Since jdlabs.fr has no policy specified, a strict SPF policy at the NANOG server would have prevented this small issue. As for the utility of SPF, well. It's not comprehensive, no one I know would say that it is. But it's a bit of a stretch to say that has zero value. It would have prevented this latest bit of fun, which seems to have people upset, so there's *some* value. -Ian On Tue, Oct 27, 2015 at 8:40 AM, Jutta Zalud wrote: > Am 27.10.2015 13:09, schrieb Ian Smith: > > If it does (which I don't know), it will probably check the SPF record > of the delivering mailserver, which was not *.jdlabs.fr as far as I can > see from the mailheaders. > > Jutta Zalud > From rsk at gsp.org Tue Oct 27 13:22:31 2015 From: rsk at gsp.org (Rich Kulawiec) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 09:22:31 -0400 Subject: Uptick in spam In-Reply-To: References: <20151026120657.67ecf0ca@jpeach-desktop.anbg.mssm.edu> <1aef7cbfffb84dea8461f0c40db9bcec@anx-i-dag02.anx.local> <562ED5F7.6040300@alvarezp.org> <562F70B8.1090702@netzwerklabor.at> Message-ID: <20151027132231.GA31936@gsp.org> On Tue, Oct 27, 2015 at 09:08:00AM -0400, Ian Smith wrote: > But it's a bit of a stretch to say that [SPF] has zero value. No, it's not a stretch at all. It's a statistical reality. And a single isolated case does not alter that. You're welcome to set up your own network of spamtraps and mailboxes, ingest a sizable corpus of messages, and analyze it. If you do so, and if you take care to ensure that the composition of that traffic is appropriate (that is, not skewed by network, domain, ASN, TLD, etc.), and you accumulate samples over a period of many years, you'll find the same thing. This wasn't always true, incidentally. In the early days of SPF, it did have some value, because -- by far -- the most prolific early adopters of SPF were spammers. ---rsk From ian.w.smith at gmail.com Tue Oct 27 14:18:11 2015 From: ian.w.smith at gmail.com (Ian Smith) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 10:18:11 -0400 Subject: Uptick in spam In-Reply-To: <20151027132231.GA31936@gsp.org> References: <20151026120657.67ecf0ca@jpeach-desktop.anbg.mssm.edu> <1aef7cbfffb84dea8461f0c40db9bcec@anx-i-dag02.anx.local> <562ED5F7.6040300@alvarezp.org> <562F70B8.1090702@netzwerklabor.at> <20151027132231.GA31936@gsp.org> Message-ID: I'm not making any argument about the relation of SPF compliance to message quality or spam/ham ratio. You are no doubt correct that at this point in the game SPF doesn't matter with respect to message quality in a larger context, because these days messages that are not SPF compliant will simply never arrive, and therefore aren't sent. I'm saying that SPF helps prevent envelope header forgery, which is what it was designed to do. The fact that NANOG isn't checking SPF (and it isn't, I tested) was exploited and resulted in a lot of spam to the list. This wasn't caught by receiving servers (like Gmail's, for example) because they checked mail.nanog.org against the nanog.org spf record, which checked out. You can argue that envelope header forgery is irrelevant, and that corner cases don't matter. But I think this latest incident provides a good counterexample that it does matter. And it's easy to fix, so why not fix it? -Ian From connorwilkins at ruggedinbox.com Tue Oct 27 14:33:03 2015 From: connorwilkins at ruggedinbox.com (Connor Wilkins) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 14:33:03 +0000 Subject: Uptick in spam In-Reply-To: References: <20151026120657.67ecf0ca@jpeach-desktop.anbg.mssm.edu> <1aef7cbfffb84dea8461f0c40db9bcec@anx-i-dag02.anx.local> <562ED5F7.6040300@alvarezp.org> <562F70B8.1090702@netzwerklabor.at> Message-ID: <1adffaaf02ca00ac253370d589381a3d@ruggedinbox.com> On 2015-10-27 13:08, Ian Smith wrote: > But that's not how SPF works. In SPF, the domain of the envelope > header > sender address is checked against that domain's sender policy. Since > jdlabs.fr has no policy specified, a strict SPF policy at the NANOG > server > would have prevented this small issue. No sane system rejects email based on the lack of a SPF policy. If the domain had a policy ending in "-all" and the spam wasn't coming from a source allowed by the policy then it should be marked as failing, held for moderator review, or rejected. -- ?Simply stated, we have a new formula for Coke.? --- Roberto C. Goizueta, Company Chairman, Coca-Cola From colinj at gt86car.org.uk Tue Oct 27 14:37:03 2015 From: colinj at gt86car.org.uk (Colin Johnston) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 14:37:03 +0000 Subject: Uptick in spam In-Reply-To: References: <20151026120657.67ecf0ca@jpeach-desktop.anbg.mssm.edu> <1aef7cbfffb84dea8461f0c40db9bcec@anx-i-dag02.anx.local> <562ED5F7.6040300@alvarezp.org> <562F70B8.1090702@netzwerklabor.at> <20151027132231.GA31936@gsp.org> Message-ID: hosted gmail did catch some of the spam but not all , into auto junk filter due to some of the weblinks were spammy Colin > On 27 Oct 2015, at 14:18, Ian Smith wrote: > > I'm not making any argument about the relation of SPF compliance to message > quality or spam/ham ratio. You are no doubt correct that at this point in > the game SPF doesn't matter with respect to message quality in a larger > context, because these days messages that are not SPF compliant will simply > never arrive, and therefore aren't sent. > > I'm saying that SPF helps prevent envelope header forgery, which is what it > was designed to do. The fact that NANOG isn't checking SPF (and it isn't, > I tested) was exploited and resulted in a lot of spam to the list. This > wasn't caught by receiving servers (like Gmail's, for example) because they > checked mail.nanog.org against the nanog.org spf record, which checked out. > > You can argue that envelope header forgery is irrelevant, and that corner > cases don't matter. But I think this latest incident provides a good > counterexample that it does matter. And it's easy to fix, so why not fix > it? > > -Ian From anthony.kasza at gmail.com Tue Oct 27 14:37:20 2015 From: anthony.kasza at gmail.com (anthony kasza) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 07:37:20 -0700 Subject: Uptick in spam In-Reply-To: References: <20151026120657.67ecf0ca@jpeach-desktop.anbg.mssm.edu> <1aef7cbfffb84dea8461f0c40db9bcec@anx-i-dag02.anx.local> <562ED5F7.6040300@alvarezp.org> <562F70B8.1090702@netzwerklabor.at> <20151027132231.GA31936@gsp.org> Message-ID: 22 emails later (only counting this thread)... Can someone with the proper privileges confirm they have the spam under control? I think any solution would be acceptable at this point. If you all would like to debate the pros/cons of different spam filtering theories after the spam has subsided, I don't mind but let's safeguard the infrastructure before we start using it again. -AK On Oct 27, 2015 7:20 AM, "Ian Smith" wrote: > I'm not making any argument about the relation of SPF compliance to message > quality or spam/ham ratio. You are no doubt correct that at this point in > the game SPF doesn't matter with respect to message quality in a larger > context, because these days messages that are not SPF compliant will simply > never arrive, and therefore aren't sent. > > I'm saying that SPF helps prevent envelope header forgery, which is what it > was designed to do. The fact that NANOG isn't checking SPF (and it isn't, > I tested) was exploited and resulted in a lot of spam to the list. This > wasn't caught by receiving servers (like Gmail's, for example) because they > checked mail.nanog.org against the nanog.org spf record, which checked > out. > > You can argue that envelope header forgery is irrelevant, and that corner > cases don't matter. But I think this latest incident provides a good > counterexample that it does matter. And it's easy to fix, so why not fix > it? > > -Ian > From swmike at swm.pp.se Tue Oct 27 14:50:44 2015 From: swmike at swm.pp.se (Mikael Abrahamsson) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 15:50:44 +0100 (CET) Subject: [Discussion] MTU mismatch and impact of data-plane traffic In-Reply-To: <562F529A.5020603@noor.net> References: <562F529A.5020603@noor.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 27 Oct 2015, Mohamed Kamal wrote: > Suppose you have the below network topology, where PE is connected to P1, P1 > is connected to P2 and P2 is connected to GW, all through 1G links. > > [PE]-1500------------1500-[P1]-1600------------1600-[P2]-1500------------1600-[GW] > > The numbers represent the MTU values configured in the following order; PE's > egress interface to P1, P1 ingress interface, P1 egress interface, P2 > ingress, P2 egress and eventually GW ingress. > > Q1: What do you think would be the impact in terms of data-plane traffic > (HTTP/s browsing, Video streaming etc), traversing this network, in the > direction from the Internet and going to the PE router? > > My answer is: > > If there is a client running Win7 on a machine trying to access a web server > out there, the TCP MSS would be adjusted to around 1260-1460 bytes depending > on the Operating System's MTU value. Hypothetically, the first packet from > the web server destined to the client would be 1460-bytes and will reach the > ingress interface of the GW. Where is the Win7 machine located in the above topology? If the end system uses 1500 as MTU, you won't notice the above misconfiguration because no packet will ever be bigger than 1500 (IP) so the mismatched MTU won't matter. Routers do not assemble packets (generally). > Q2: However, what about larger MSS sizes? example; above 1500? and > larges chunks of payload from a connectionless protocols that don't > exchange MSS? UDP for example? or Google's QUIC (which is HTTP over > UDP)? As soon as you try to send larger than 1500 byte packets in the above configuration you will star to drop packets (if MTU and MRU is the same). For instance, if the Internet is on the right and GW has 1600 to the outside, then you'll get a packet that is 1600 bytes that P2 will silently drop due to 1500 MRU. -- Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike at swm.pp.se From rsk at gsp.org Tue Oct 27 14:53:33 2015 From: rsk at gsp.org (Rich Kulawiec) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 10:53:33 -0400 Subject: Uptick in spam In-Reply-To: References: <20151026120657.67ecf0ca@jpeach-desktop.anbg.mssm.edu> <1aef7cbfffb84dea8461f0c40db9bcec@anx-i-dag02.anx.local> <562ED5F7.6040300@alvarezp.org> <562F70B8.1090702@netzwerklabor.at> <20151027132231.GA31936@gsp.org> Message-ID: <20151027145333.GA3134@gsp.org> On Tue, Oct 27, 2015 at 10:18:11AM -0400, Ian Smith wrote: > I'm not making any argument about the relation of SPF compliance to message > quality or spam/ham ratio. You are no doubt correct that at this point in > the game SPF doesn't matter with respect to message quality in a larger > context, because these days messages that are not SPF compliant will simply > never arrive, and therefore aren't sent. No, what I'm trying to explain to you is that the presence or absence of SPF records, and the content of those records, has no bearing on whether not messages emitted are spam or nonspam. I have millions of messages that passed all SPF checks and are clearly spam; I have millions of messages that failed (or had none) and are clearly not spam. I have analyzed this data in ridiculous detail using a variety of statistical/pattern recognition techniques, and the bottom line vis-a-vis SPF is that it simply doesn't matter. It would be nice if it did; it would be nice if the fatuous claim made at SPF's introduction ("Spam as a technical problem is solved by SPF") were true. But it's not. It's worthless. > I'm saying that SPF helps prevent envelope header forgery, which is what it > was designed to do. When trying to stop spam, forgery (header and otherwise) is largely unimportant. These are separate-but-related problems, and it is a fundamental tactical error to conflate them. > The fact that NANOG isn't checking SPF (and it isn't, > I tested) was exploited and resulted in a lot of spam to the list. No, the fact that NANOG's mailing list mechanisms (the MTA, Mailman, etc.) aren't defended by *other* methods is the problem. There are much better ways to accomplish the goal than screwing around with SPF. > You can argue that envelope header forgery is irrelevant, and that corner > cases don't matter. But I think this latest incident provides a good > counterexample that it does matter. It's an unimportant and isolated incident. I have a bazillion of those too. But using those, instead of looking at overall statistical trends, is a very poor way to craft mail system defenses. The correct strategy is to begin with those measures that: - have the lowest FP rate - have the lowest FN rate - take the least bandwidth - take the least memory - take the least CPU - are as close as possible to the source of abuse - rely the least on external resources - are simplest to understand - are simplest to implement - are easiest to monitor and evaluate - are easiest to maintain and modify - are the least susceptible to gaming - are the least susceptible to "flavor-of-the-moment" issues and then work down the list from there. This yields architectures that are effective, predictable, and accurate. Not perfect: there is no such thing; but certainly robust enough for production use. ---rsk From johnl at iecc.com Tue Oct 27 14:53:36 2015 From: johnl at iecc.com (John Levine) Date: 27 Oct 2015 14:53:36 -0000 Subject: more FUSSPs, Uptick in spam In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20151027145336.27171.qmail@ary.lan> >You can argue that envelope header forgery is irrelevant, and that corner >cases don't matter. But I think this latest incident provides a good >counterexample that it does matter. And it's easy to fix, so why not fix >it? Why do you think that the envelope addresses in the spam bore any relation to the address in the From header? The from comments (the so-called friendly name) were randomized, and they came from compromised servers all over the world, so I'd expect the envelope addresses to be similarly random. SPF has some value for some heavily forged domains, but that's about it. R's, John From bruce.curtis at ndsu.edu Tue Oct 27 15:42:29 2015 From: bruce.curtis at ndsu.edu (Bruce Curtis) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 15:42:29 +0000 Subject: DNSSEC broken for login.microsoftonline.com Message-ID: <849F2BEE-3E0A-4694-B9F5-27CDFCC79266@ndsu.edu> FYI our DNS requests to resolve login.microsoftonline.com are failing because of a DNSSEC error. http://dnssec-debugger.verisignlabs.com/login.microsoftonline.com http://dnsviz.net/d/login.microsoftonline.com/dnssec/ ns1 domain]$ drill -DT login.microsoftonline.com Warning: No trusted keys were given. Will not be able to verify authenticity! ;; Domain: . ;; Signature ok but no chain to a trusted key or ds record [S] . 172800 IN DNSKEY 257 3 8 ;{id = 19036 (ksk), size = 2048b} . 172800 IN DNSKEY 256 3 8 ;{id = 62530 (zsk), size = 1024b} Checking if signing key is trusted: New key: . 172800 IN DNSKEY 256 3 8 AwEAAbgVvZmZibtBpha3AIykU0OY4gcCXTcskYJUxGsdmV/awfmKcHlSrjNMioSgy4sByj+HpcbsyrZVGPp+JBXzYwwuEF/6w1k7vKYTK6vMSqgVcgooNkfb5MaRF2y7MEpPxfStnfwu8knE24ExB0hYE1URxJ9CqB3zMSl/vicXYXXl ;{id = 62530 (zsk), size = 1024b} [S] com. 86400 IN DS 30909 8 2 e2d3c916f6deeac73294e8268fb5885044a833fc5459588f4a9184cfc41a5766 ;; Domain: com. ;; Signature ok but no chain to a trusted key or ds record [S] com. 86400 IN DNSKEY 256 3 8 ;{id = 51797 (zsk), size = 1024b} com. 86400 IN DNSKEY 257 3 8 ;{id = 30909 (ksk), size = 2048b} [S] Existence denied: microsoftonline.com. DS ;; No ds record for delegation ;; Domain: microsoftonline.com. ;; No DNSKEY record found for microsoftonline.com. ;; No DS for login.microsoftonline.com.;; No ds record for delegation ;; Domain: login.microsoftonline.com. ;; No DNSKEY record found for login.microsoftonline.com. [U] No data found for: login.microsoftonline.com. type A ;;[S] self sig OK; [B] bogus; [T] trusted [ns1 domain]$ [ns1 domain]$ drill -DT medicare.gov Warning: No trusted keys were given. Will not be able to verify authenticity! ;; Domain: . ;; Signature ok but no chain to a trusted key or ds record [S] . 172800 IN DNSKEY 256 3 8 ;{id = 62530 (zsk), size = 1024b} . 172800 IN DNSKEY 257 3 8 ;{id = 19036 (ksk), size = 2048b} Checking if signing key is trusted: New key: . 172800 IN DNSKEY 256 3 8 AwEAAbgVvZmZibtBpha3AIykU0OY4gcCXTcskYJUxGsdmV/awfmKcHlSrjNMioSgy4sByj+HpcbsyrZVGPp+JBXzYwwuEF/6w1k7vKYTK6vMSqgVcgooNkfb5MaRF2y7MEpPxfStnfwu8knE24ExB0hYE1URxJ9CqB3zMSl/vicXYXXl ;{id = 62530 (zsk), size = 1024b} [S] gov. 86400 IN DS 7698 8 1 6f109b46a80cea9613dc86d5a3e065520505aafe gov. 86400 IN DS 7698 8 2 6bc949e638442ead0bdaf0935763c8d003760384ff15ebbd5ce86bb5559561f0 ;; Domain: gov. ;; Signature ok but no chain to a trusted key or ds record [S] gov. 86400 IN DNSKEY 256 3 8 ;{id = 13175 (zsk), size = 1024b} gov. 86400 IN DNSKEY 257 3 8 ;{id = 7698 (ksk), size = 2048b} Checking if signing key is trusted: New key: gov. 86400 IN DNSKEY 256 3 8 AQPCY4NZARQ0HDzGismy6sZdJ17o2+yzmZSkw6d9PeeJ8NCnw9atj4PGHO50LX1Hy0n4YimUcDEXHu+sI4MBaeTkHY3ilsC2kpWGGOFW2fkXn6XNvvPVRjwk04hDsEFphOXPPdoXWjXtQiTVYkFpgUbxJYo24/JxM5JuC4v0+qDmLQ== ;{id = 13175 (zsk), size = 1024b} [S] medicare.gov. 3600 IN DS 16500 7 1 ea88786ecaa04e66322e4405b1c1a55e31485281 medicare.gov. 3600 IN DS 16500 7 2 43a0e12df89bb342c15229495cd2bc18dddce0d9fb315aeb5b06b0d849b9a3ee ;; Domain: medicare.gov. ;; Signature ok but no chain to a trusted key or ds record [S] medicare.gov. 7200 IN DNSKEY 256 3 7 ;{id = 58988 (zsk), size = 1024b} medicare.gov. 7200 IN DNSKEY 256 3 7 ;{id = 41714 (zsk), size = 1024b} medicare.gov. 7200 IN DNSKEY 257 3 7 ;{id = 16500 (ksk), size = 2048b} [S] medicare.gov. 20 IN A 23.213.71.152 ;;[S] self sig OK; [B] bogus; [T] trusted --- Bruce Curtis bruce.curtis at ndsu.edu Certified NetAnalyst II 701-231-8527 North Dakota State University From ian.w.smith at gmail.com Tue Oct 27 16:13:57 2015 From: ian.w.smith at gmail.com (Ian Smith) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 12:13:57 -0400 Subject: more FUSSPs, Uptick in spam In-Reply-To: <20151027145336.27171.qmail@ary.lan> References: <20151027145336.27171.qmail@ary.lan> Message-ID: I was assuming that messages to the list were already filtered by sender, so non-list or randomized senders would have been rejected by mailman. -Ian From beckman at angryox.com Tue Oct 27 17:00:24 2015 From: beckman at angryox.com (Peter Beckman) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 13:00:24 -0400 Subject: Uptick in spam In-Reply-To: <20151027145333.GA3134@gsp.org> References: <20151026120657.67ecf0ca@jpeach-desktop.anbg.mssm.edu> <1aef7cbfffb84dea8461f0c40db9bcec@anx-i-dag02.anx.local> <562ED5F7.6040300@alvarezp.org> <562F70B8.1090702@netzwerklabor.at> <20151027132231.GA31936@gsp.org> <20151027145333.GA3134@gsp.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 27 Oct 2015, Rich Kulawiec wrote: > It would be nice if it did; it would be nice if the fatuous claim > made at SPF's introduction ("Spam as a technical problem is solved > by SPF") were true. But it's not. It's worthless. I disagree. Since implementing SPF, there have been no joe-jobs on my accounts, and attempting to pretend to be me via email is difficult where SPF is implemented. I never read or understood that SPF was created to solve the spam problem. It was to give owners of domains a way to say "If you got an email from us from these IPs/hosts, then it is probably from us." It gave domain owners a standardized programmatic way to say to email recipients when to accept or reject email from their domains. SPF is not worthless. However, SPF IS worthless at preventing spam. And while SPF *could* have been implemented by the owner of the email/domain that sent all of the spam to the NANOG list and *if* the mail server for NANOG respected SPF then the emails would have been dropped, it seems one or both is not the case. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Peter Beckman Internet Guy beckman at angryox.com http://www.angryox.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From dot at dotat.at Tue Oct 27 17:35:23 2015 From: dot at dotat.at (Tony Finch) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 17:35:23 +0000 Subject: DNSSEC broken for login.microsoftonline.com In-Reply-To: <849F2BEE-3E0A-4694-B9F5-27CDFCC79266@ndsu.edu> References: <849F2BEE-3E0A-4694-B9F5-27CDFCC79266@ndsu.edu> Message-ID: Bruce Curtis wrote: > > FYI our DNS requests to resolve login.microsoftonline.com are failing > because of a DNSSEC error. There's no DS record for microsoftonline.com so you shouldn't have any DNSSEC problems with it - my servers can resolve it OK. DNSvis doesn't show any problems. The only thing which might cause trouble is the SERVFAIL responses to DNSKEY queries flagged by the Verisign DNSSEC debugger. > http://dnssec-debugger.verisignlabs.com/login.microsoftonline.com > > http://dnsviz.net/d/login.microsoftonline.com/dnssec/ Tony. -- f.anthony.n.finch http://dotat.at/ Fitzroy, Sole: Cyclonic, mainly southwesterly, 5 to 7, occasionally gale 8 in west Fitzroy. Very rough or high, becoming rough in Sole. Rain or thundery showers. Moderate or poor, occasionally good. From mike at conlen.org Tue Oct 27 20:23:57 2015 From: mike at conlen.org (Mike Conlen) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 16:23:57 -0400 Subject: Is anyone tracking the "Fw: New Message" joe-job spammer? In-Reply-To: <2205BB6B-6050-45FC-B0E5-E88EAA8858DC@ianai.net> References: <4888624.91.1445789514706.JavaMail.root@benjamin.baylink.com> <2205BB6B-6050-45FC-B0E5-E88EAA8858DC@ianai.net> Message-ID: <865B01F7-49F7-4E45-BDD9-90ED0ECCC8B4@conlen.org> I've seen this attack on a private list I'm on as well. It wasn't clear if the subscribed address was being spoofed or if the user had an infected computer. -- Mike Conlen > On Oct 26, 2015, at 13:27, Patrick W. Gilmore wrote: > > I have 521 messages that match: > To: nanog* > Subject: new message > > In the last week. Obviously that includes things like Jay?s message below, but still a lot more than 100. > > It also hit outages@, and probably other places. > > Of course, I?m very upset about that. After 500+ tries, they did not spoof my name once!!! Guess I?m not important enough. > > -- > TTFN, > patrick > >> On Oct 25, 2015, at 12:11 PM, Jay Ashworth wrote: >> >> Cause if so I got about 100 examples from last night I can send you if >> you think they'll help. :-) >> >> Cheers, >> -- jra >> >> -- >> Jay R. Ashworth Baylink jra at baylink.com >> Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100 >> Ashworth & Associates http://www.bcp38.info 2000 Land Rover DII >> St Petersburg FL USA BCP38: Ask For It By Name! +1 727 647 1274 > From bruce.curtis at ndsu.edu Tue Oct 27 20:24:11 2015 From: bruce.curtis at ndsu.edu (Bruce Curtis) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 20:24:11 +0000 Subject: DNSSEC broken for login.microsoftonline.com In-Reply-To: <49FE74F4-A185-4ADF-9800-C81D67EF0951@link.ba> References: <849F2BEE-3E0A-4694-B9F5-27CDFCC79266@ndsu.edu> <49FE74F4-A185-4ADF-9800-C81D67EF0951@link.ba> Message-ID: <30825F6E-D8C1-49EC-BFEE-9992A3750C65@ndsu.edu> > On Oct 27, 2015, at 2:38 PM, Avdija Ahmedhod?i? wrote: > > Also, ns2.bdm.microsoftonline.com is offline for about 12 hours The problems started yesterday, more than 12 hours ago. Thanks. > >> On 27 Oct 2015, at 18:35, Tony Finch wrote: >> >> Bruce Curtis wrote: >>> >>> FYI our DNS requests to resolve login.microsoftonline.com are failing >>> because of a DNSSEC error. >> >> There's no DS record for microsoftonline.com so you shouldn't have any >> DNSSEC problems with it - my servers can resolve it OK. DNSvis doesn't >> show any problems. The only thing which might cause trouble is the >> SERVFAIL responses to DNSKEY queries flagged by the Verisign DNSSEC >> debugger. >> >>> http://dnssec-debugger.verisignlabs.com/login.microsoftonline.com >>> >>> http://dnsviz.net/d/login.microsoftonline.com/dnssec/ >> >> Tony. >> -- >> f.anthony.n.finch http://dotat.at/ >> Fitzroy, Sole: Cyclonic, mainly southwesterly, 5 to 7, occasionally gale 8 in >> west Fitzroy. Very rough or high, becoming rough in Sole. Rain or thundery >> showers. Moderate or poor, occasionally good. > --- Bruce Curtis bruce.curtis at ndsu.edu Certified NetAnalyst II 701-231-8527 North Dakota State University From bruce.curtis at ndsu.edu Tue Oct 27 20:37:07 2015 From: bruce.curtis at ndsu.edu (Bruce Curtis) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 20:37:07 +0000 Subject: DNSSEC broken for login.microsoftonline.com In-Reply-To: References: <849F2BEE-3E0A-4694-B9F5-27CDFCC79266@ndsu.edu> Message-ID: > On Oct 27, 2015, at 12:35 PM, Tony Finch wrote: > > Bruce Curtis wrote: >> >> FYI our DNS requests to resolve login.microsoftonline.com are failing >> because of a DNSSEC error. > > There's no DS record for microsoftonline.com so you shouldn't have any > DNSSEC problems with it - my servers can resolve it OK. DNSvis doesn't > show any problems. The only thing which might cause trouble is the > SERVFAIL responses to DNSKEY queries flagged by the Verisign DNSSEC > debugger. DNSvis did list 4 errors earlier. 4 recursive DNS servers here still fail to resolve login.microsoftonline.com. I turned DNSSEC validation off on one and it then resolved correctly. dnssec-validation no; Thanks for the info. Our customers have reported that it does resolve at the Google public DNS servers also. > http://dnssec-debugger.verisignlabs.com/login.microsoftonline.com >> >> http://dnsviz.net/d/login.microsoftonline.com/dnssec/ > > Tony. > -- > f.anthony.n.finch http://dotat.at/ > Fitzroy, Sole: Cyclonic, mainly southwesterly, 5 to 7, occasionally gale 8 in > west Fitzroy. Very rough or high, becoming rough in Sole. Rain or thundery > showers. Moderate or poor, occasionally good. --- Bruce Curtis bruce.curtis at ndsu.edu Certified NetAnalyst II 701-231-8527 North Dakota State University From springer at inlandnet.com Tue Oct 27 20:39:20 2015 From: springer at inlandnet.com (John Springer) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 13:39:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: spam smackdown? In-Reply-To: References: <20151024193938.93377B49@m0086238.ppops.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 26 Oct 2015, Patrick W. Gilmore wrote: > Otherwise, everyone should thank the unpaid > volunteers for their gracious and excellent work day after day, year > after year. Or just STFU. Thank you Communications Committee. What he said. John Springer From geoffk at geoffk.org Tue Oct 27 20:47:18 2015 From: geoffk at geoffk.org (Geoffrey Keating) Date: 27 Oct 2015 13:47:18 -0700 Subject: AW: Uptick in spam In-Reply-To: <20151027122631.GA28774@gsp.org> References: <20151026120657.67ecf0ca@jpeach-desktop.anbg.mssm.edu> <1aef7cbfffb84dea8461f0c40db9bcec@anx-i-dag02.anx.local> <562ED5F7.6040300@alvarezp.org> <20151027122631.GA28774@gsp.org> Message-ID: Rich Kulawiec writes: > On Tue, Oct 27, 2015 at 08:09:00AM -0400, Ian Smith wrote: > > This is the part that's been bugging me. Doesn't the NANOG server > > implement SPF checking on inbound list mail? > > Don't know, but it doesn't matter: SPF has zero anti-spam value. > (I know. I've studied this in ridiculous detail using a very large > corpus of spam/nonspam messages over a very long period of time.) > There are much better methods available. My experience is that it dramatically cuts down on the number of spam bounce messages coming back to the SPF-protected domain. It may be that spammers don't bother sending out spam 'from' SPF-protected domains (that they don't own) but still send the same amount of spam; so it's not an effective antispam technique but it is a good domain reputation preservation technique. ... and thus a suitable topic for NANOG, I guess, rather than a mail abuse list, because it's best use is for domains that send no mail and recieve no mail and don't want anything to do with mail and stil get spam complaints. From ttauber at 1-4-5.net Tue Oct 27 21:07:08 2015 From: ttauber at 1-4-5.net (Tony Tauber) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 17:07:08 -0400 Subject: [NANOG-announce] NANOG 66 - San Diego - Call for Presentations is Open! Message-ID: Greetings NANOG Folks, The last two NANOG meetings (San Francisco and Montreal) set records for attendance and we hope and expect the trend of strong attendance numbers to continue for the NANOG 66 meeting February 8-10, 2016 in San Diego, CA which will be hosted by IIX, Inc. The detailed NANOG66 Call For Presentations has more info but below is some information that might be useful for quick digestion. Cheers, Tony Tauber Chair, NANOG Program Committee === Timeline for submission and proposal review 1. Submitter enters Abstract (and draft slides if possible) in Program Committee Site . 1. Any time following Call for Presentations and before deadline for Abstracts 2. PC performs initial review and assigns a ?Shepherd? to help develop the submission. 1. Within about 2-3 weeks 3. Submitter develops draft slides (minimally showing proposed outline and level of detail). 1. Please submit initial draft slides before published deadline for slides 2. Panels and Track submissions should provide topic list and intended/confirmed participants 4. PC reviews slides and iteratively works with Submitter to help develop topic. 5. PC accepts or declines submission 6. Agenda assembled and posted 7. Submitters notified If you think you have an interesting topic but want some feedback or assistance working it into a presentation, please email the Program Committee , and a representative on the Program Committee will give you the feedback needed to work it into a presentation. Otherwise, don't delay in submitting your talk, keynote, track, or panel proposal to the Program Committee Site . We look forward to reviewing your submission. Key Dates For NANOG 66 Event/Deadline Date Registration for NANOG 66 Opens Monday, 10/26/2015 CFP Opens for NANOG 66 Monday, 10/26/2015 CFP Deadline #1: Presentation Abstracts Due Monday, 11/30/2015 CFP Topic List and NANOG Highlights Page Posted Friday, 12/18/2015 CFP Deadline #2: Presentation Slides Due Monday, 1/4/2016 Meeting Agenda Published Monday, 1/11/2016 Speaker FINAL presentations to Program Committee Site Wednesday, 2/3/2016 On-site Registration Sunday, 2/7/2016 Lightning Talk Submissions Open (Abstracts Only) Sunday, 2/7/2016 Further Presentation Guidelines can be found under "Present at a NANOG" and some general advice is available in Tips on Giving a Talk . -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ NANOG-announce mailing list NANOG-announce at mailman.nanog.org http://mailman.nanog.org/mailman/listinfo/nanog-announce From bruce.curtis at ndsu.edu Tue Oct 27 21:59:21 2015 From: bruce.curtis at ndsu.edu (Bruce Curtis) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 21:59:21 +0000 Subject: DNSSEC broken for login.microsoftonline.com In-Reply-To: References: <849F2BEE-3E0A-4694-B9F5-27CDFCC79266@ndsu.edu> Message-ID: > On Oct 27, 2015, at 3:37 PM, Bruce Curtis wrote: > > >> On Oct 27, 2015, at 12:35 PM, Tony Finch wrote: >> >> Bruce Curtis wrote: >>> >>> FYI our DNS requests to resolve login.microsoftonline.com are failing >>> because of a DNSSEC error. >> >> There's no DS record for microsoftonline.com so you shouldn't have any >> DNSSEC problems with it - my servers can resolve it OK. DNSvis doesn't >> show any problems. The only thing which might cause trouble is the >> SERVFAIL responses to DNSKEY queries flagged by the Verisign DNSSEC >> debugger. > > > DNSvis did list 4 errors earlier. > > 4 recursive DNS servers here still fail to resolve login.microsoftonline.com. > > I turned DNSSEC validation off on one and it then resolved correctly. > > dnssec-validation no; > > Thanks for the info. Our customers have reported that it does resolve at the Google public DNS servers also. Drill run on one of our name servers shows that the error is Existence denied: microsoftonline.com [ns1 domain]$ drill -k /tmp/rootkey -DT login.microsoftonline.com ;; Number of trusted keys: 2 ;; Domain: . [T] . 172800 IN DNSKEY 256 3 8 ;{id = 62530 (zsk), size = 1024b} . 172800 IN DNSKEY 257 3 8 ;{id = 19036 (ksk), size = 2048b} Checking if signing key is trusted: New key: . 172800 IN DNSKEY 256 3 8 AwEAAbgVvZmZibtBpha3AIykU0OY4gcCXTcskYJUxGsdmV/awfmKcHlSrjNMioSgy4sByj+HpcbsyrZVGPp+JBXzYwwuEF/6w1k7vKYTK6vMSqgVcgooNkfb5MaRF2y7MEpPxfStnfwu8knE24ExB0hYE1URxJ9CqB3zMSl/vicXYXXl ;{id = 62530 (zsk), size = 1024b} Trusted key: . 143619 IN DNSKEY 256 3 8 AwEAAbgVvZmZibtBpha3AIykU0OY4gcCXTcskYJUxGsdmV/awfmKcHlSrjNMioSgy4sByj+HpcbsyrZVGPp+JBXzYwwuEF/6w1k7vKYTK6vMSqgVcgooNkfb5MaRF2y7MEpPxfStnfwu8knE24ExB0hYE1URxJ9CqB3zMSl/vicXYXXl ;{id = 62530 (zsk), size = 1024b} Key is now trusted! Trusted key: . 143619 IN DNSKEY 257 3 8 AwEAAagAIKlVZrpC6Ia7gEzahOR+9W29euxhJhVVLOyQbSEW0O8gcCjFFVQUTf6v58fLjwBd0YI0EzrAcQqBGCzh/RStIoO8g0NfnfL2MTJRkxoXbfDaUeVPQuYEhg37NZWAJQ9VnMVDxP/VHL496M/QZxkjf5/Efucp2gaDX6RS6CXpoY68LsvPVjR0ZSwzz1apAzvN9dlzEheX7ICJBBtuA6G3LQpzW5hOA2hzCTMjJPJ8LbqF6dsV6DoBQzgul0sGIcGOYl7OyQdXfZ57relSQageu+ipAdTTJ25AsRTAoub8ONGcLmqrAmRLKBP1dfwhYB4N7knNnulqQxA+Uk1ihz0= ;{id = 19036 (ksk), size = 2048b} Trusted key: . 172800 IN DNSKEY 256 3 8 AwEAAbgVvZmZibtBpha3AIykU0OY4gcCXTcskYJUxGsdmV/awfmKcHlSrjNMioSgy4sByj+HpcbsyrZVGPp+JBXzYwwuEF/6w1k7vKYTK6vMSqgVcgooNkfb5MaRF2y7MEpPxfStnfwu8knE24ExB0hYE1URxJ9CqB3zMSl/vicXYXXl ;{id = 62530 (zsk), size = 1024b} Key is now trusted! Trusted key: . 172800 IN DNSKEY 257 3 8 AwEAAagAIKlVZrpC6Ia7gEzahOR+9W29euxhJhVVLOyQbSEW0O8gcCjFFVQUTf6v58fLjwBd0YI0EzrAcQqBGCzh/RStIoO8g0NfnfL2MTJRkxoXbfDaUeVPQuYEhg37NZWAJQ9VnMVDxP/VHL496M/QZxkjf5/Efucp2gaDX6RS6CXpoY68LsvPVjR0ZSwzz1apAzvN9dlzEheX7ICJBBtuA6G3LQpzW5hOA2hzCTMjJPJ8LbqF6dsV6DoBQzgul0sGIcGOYl7OyQdXfZ57relSQageu+ipAdTTJ25AsRTAoub8ONGcLmqrAmRLKBP1dfwhYB4N7knNnulqQxA+Uk1ihz0= ;{id = 19036 (ksk), size = 2048b} [T] com. 86400 IN DS 30909 8 2 e2d3c916f6deeac73294e8268fb5885044a833fc5459588f4a9184cfc41a5766 ;; Domain: com. [T] com. 86400 IN DNSKEY 256 3 8 ;{id = 51797 (zsk), size = 1024b} com. 86400 IN DNSKEY 257 3 8 ;{id = 30909 (ksk), size = 2048b} [T] Existence denied: microsoftonline.com. DS ;; No ds record for delegation ;; Domain: microsoftonline.com. ;; No DNSKEY record found for microsoftonline.com. ;; No DS for login.microsoftonline.com.;; No ds record for delegation ;; Domain: login.microsoftonline.com. ;; No DNSKEY record found for login.microsoftonline.com. [U] No data found for: login.microsoftonline.com. type A ;;[S] self sig OK; [B] bogus; [T] trusted > >> http://dnssec-debugger.verisignlabs.com/login.microsoftonline.com >>> >>> http://dnsviz.net/d/login.microsoftonline.com/dnssec/ >> >> Tony. >> -- >> f.anthony.n.finch http://dotat.at/ >> Fitzroy, Sole: Cyclonic, mainly southwesterly, 5 to 7, occasionally gale 8 in >> west Fitzroy. Very rough or high, becoming rough in Sole. Rain or thundery >> showers. Moderate or poor, occasionally good. > > --- > Bruce Curtis bruce.curtis at ndsu.edu > Certified NetAnalyst II 701-231-8527 > North Dakota State University > --- Bruce Curtis bruce.curtis at ndsu.edu Certified NetAnalyst II 701-231-8527 North Dakota State University From beckman at angryox.com Tue Oct 27 21:59:29 2015 From: beckman at angryox.com (Peter Beckman) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 17:59:29 -0400 Subject: AW: Uptick in spam In-Reply-To: References: <20151026120657.67ecf0ca@jpeach-desktop.anbg.mssm.edu> <1aef7cbfffb84dea8461f0c40db9bcec@anx-i-dag02.anx.local> <562ED5F7.6040300@alvarezp.org> <20151027122631.GA28774@gsp.org> Message-ID: Wouldn't that be interesting -- you can't join NANOG unless your email domain publishes an SPF record with a -all rule. That would raise the bar AND prevent the kind of thing that happened this weekend. On Tue, 27 Oct 2015, Geoffrey Keating wrote: > ... and thus a suitable topic for NANOG, I guess, rather than a mail > abuse list, because it's best use is for domains that send no mail and > recieve no mail and don't want anything to do with mail and stil get > spam complaints. > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Peter Beckman Internet Guy beckman at angryox.com http://www.angryox.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From hf0002+nanog at uah.edu Tue Oct 27 22:23:01 2015 From: hf0002+nanog at uah.edu (Hunter Fuller) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 17:23:01 -0500 Subject: AW: Uptick in spam In-Reply-To: References: <20151026120657.67ecf0ca@jpeach-desktop.anbg.mssm.edu> <1aef7cbfffb84dea8461f0c40db9bcec@anx-i-dag02.anx.local> <562ED5F7.6040300@alvarezp.org> <20151027122631.GA28774@gsp.org> Message-ID: The trouble is that this is not the NAMSOG (North American Mail Server Operators Group). ;) On Tue, Oct 27, 2015 at 4:59 PM, Peter Beckman wrote: > Wouldn't that be interesting -- you can't join NANOG unless your email > domain publishes an SPF record with a -all rule. > > That would raise the bar AND prevent the kind of thing that happened this > weekend. > > On Tue, 27 Oct 2015, Geoffrey Keating wrote: > > ... and thus a suitable topic for NANOG, I guess, rather than a mail >> abuse list, because it's best use is for domains that send no mail and >> recieve no mail and don't want anything to do with mail and stil get >> spam complaints. >> >> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Peter Beckman Internet Guy > beckman at angryox.com > http://www.angryox.com/ > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > From randy at psg.com Tue Oct 27 22:35:27 2015 From: randy at psg.com (Randy Bush) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2015 07:35:27 +0900 Subject: algeria Message-ID: any gossip of a cable issue to algier? randy From jake.mertel at ubiquityhosting.com Tue Oct 27 22:40:21 2015 From: jake.mertel at ubiquityhosting.com (Jake Mertel) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 15:40:21 -0700 Subject: algeria In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Not finding much but did run into this, posted within the past hour (according to Google) http://www.alhurra.com/content/algeria-internet/284810.html Excerpt from Google translate "Internet service in Algeria fell to 80 percent because of damage caused, which hit the main cable that connects between Algeria and Europe, the Algerian economy to incur significant losses outweigh million dollars a day." -- Regards, Jake Mertel Ubiquity Hosting *Web: *https://www.ubiquityhosting.com *Phone (direct): *1-480-478-1510 *Mail:* 5350 East High Street, Suite 300, Phoenix, AZ 85054 On Tue, Oct 27, 2015 at 3:35 PM, Randy Bush wrote: > any gossip of a cable issue to algier? > > randy > From randy at psg.com Tue Oct 27 22:43:06 2015 From: randy at psg.com (Randy Bush) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2015 07:43:06 +0900 Subject: algeria In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > http://www.alhurra.com/content/algeria-internet/284810.html thanks, jake randy From johnl at iecc.com Tue Oct 27 22:43:22 2015 From: johnl at iecc.com (John Levine) Date: 27 Oct 2015 22:43:22 -0000 Subject: AW: Uptick in spam In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20151027224322.32349.qmail@ary.lan> In article you write: >Wouldn't that be interesting -- you can't join NANOG unless your email >domain publishes an SPF record with a -all rule. > >That would raise the bar AND prevent the kind of thing that happened this >weekend. That's OK. It'd take about 15 minutes for the other 90% of us to migrate over to the new list for people who actually want to get work done. R's, John From Valdis.Kletnieks at vt.edu Tue Oct 27 22:43:46 2015 From: Valdis.Kletnieks at vt.edu (Valdis.Kletnieks at vt.edu) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 18:43:46 -0400 Subject: AW: Uptick in spam In-Reply-To: References: <20151026120657.67ecf0ca@jpeach-desktop.anbg.mssm.edu> <1aef7cbfffb84dea8461f0c40db9bcec@anx-i-dag02.anx.local> <562ED5F7.6040300@alvarezp.org> <20151027122631.GA28774@gsp.org> Message-ID: <48776.1445985826@turing-police.cc.vt.edu> On Tue, 27 Oct 2015 17:59:29 -0400, Peter Beckman said: > Wouldn't that be interesting -- you can't join NANOG unless your email > domain publishes an SPF record with a -all rule. > > That would raise the bar AND prevent the kind of thing that happened this > weekend. And make a number of long-time contributors have to change their e-mail provider just to participate. Hint: There's now 4 people listed in the To/From/CC for this mail, of which 2 don't have a -all SPF record published. Oh. And there's this in the DNS as well: nanog.org. 600 IN TXT "v=spf1 include:_spf.google.com ip4:50.31.151.74 ip6:2001:1838:2001:8::10 ip4:50.31.151.73 ip6:2001:1838:2001:8::9 ~all" Did you *really* want to go there? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 848 bytes Desc: not available URL: From bruce.curtis at ndsu.edu Wed Oct 28 04:27:32 2015 From: bruce.curtis at ndsu.edu (Bruce Curtis) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2015 04:27:32 +0000 Subject: DNSSEC broken for login.microsoftonline.com In-Reply-To: References: <849F2BEE-3E0A-4694-B9F5-27CDFCC79266@ndsu.edu> Message-ID: Actually login.microsoftonline.com is resolving but the CNAME it points to, login.microsoftonline.com.nsatc.net is not resolving because of a DNSSEC issue. [ns1 ~]$ drill -k /tmp/rootkey -DT login.microsoftonline.com.nsatc.net CNAME ;; Number of trusted keys: 2 ;; Domain: . [T] . 172800 IN DNSKEY 257 3 8 ;{id = 19036 (ksk), size = 2048b} . 172800 IN DNSKEY 256 3 8 ;{id = 62530 (zsk), size = 1024b} Checking if signing key is trusted: New key: . 172800 IN DNSKEY 256 3 8 AwEAAbgVvZmZibtBpha3AIykU0OY4gcCXTcskYJUxGsdmV/awfmKcHlSrjNMioSgy4sByj+HpcbsyrZVGPp+JBXzYwwuEF/6w1k7vKYTK6vMSqgVcgooNkfb5MaRF2y7MEpPxfStnfwu8knE24ExB0hYE1URxJ9CqB3zMSl/vicXYXXl ;{id = 62530 (zsk), size = 1024b} Trusted key: . 143619 IN DNSKEY 256 3 8 AwEAAbgVvZmZibtBpha3AIykU0OY4gcCXTcskYJUxGsdmV/awfmKcHlSrjNMioSgy4sByj+HpcbsyrZVGPp+JBXzYwwuEF/6w1k7vKYTK6vMSqgVcgooNkfb5MaRF2y7MEpPxfStnfwu8knE24ExB0hYE1URxJ9CqB3zMSl/vicXYXXl ;{id = 62530 (zsk), size = 1024b} Key is now trusted! Trusted key: . 143619 IN DNSKEY 257 3 8 AwEAAagAIKlVZrpC6Ia7gEzahOR+9W29euxhJhVVLOyQbSEW0O8gcCjFFVQUTf6v58fLjwBd0YI0EzrAcQqBGCzh/RStIoO8g0NfnfL2MTJRkxoXbfDaUeVPQuYEhg37NZWAJQ9VnMVDxP/VHL496M/QZxkjf5/Efucp2gaDX6RS6CXpoY68LsvPVjR0ZSwzz1apAzvN9dlzEheX7ICJBBtuA6G3LQpzW5hOA2hzCTMjJPJ8LbqF6dsV6DoBQzgul0sGIcGOYl7OyQdXfZ57relSQageu+ipAdTTJ25AsRTAoub8ONGcLmqrAmRLKBP1dfwhYB4N7knNnulqQxA+Uk1ihz0= ;{id = 19036 (ksk), size = 2048b} Trusted key: . 172800 IN DNSKEY 257 3 8 AwEAAagAIKlVZrpC6Ia7gEzahOR+9W29euxhJhVVLOyQbSEW0O8gcCjFFVQUTf6v58fLjwBd0YI0EzrAcQqBGCzh/RStIoO8g0NfnfL2MTJRkxoXbfDaUeVPQuYEhg37NZWAJQ9VnMVDxP/VHL496M/QZxkjf5/Efucp2gaDX6RS6CXpoY68LsvPVjR0ZSwzz1apAzvN9dlzEheX7ICJBBtuA6G3LQpzW5hOA2hzCTMjJPJ8LbqF6dsV6DoBQzgul0sGIcGOYl7OyQdXfZ57relSQageu+ipAdTTJ25AsRTAoub8ONGcLmqrAmRLKBP1dfwhYB4N7knNnulqQxA+Uk1ihz0= ;{id = 19036 (ksk), size = 2048b} Trusted key: . 172800 IN DNSKEY 256 3 8 AwEAAbgVvZmZibtBpha3AIykU0OY4gcCXTcskYJUxGsdmV/awfmKcHlSrjNMioSgy4sByj+HpcbsyrZVGPp+JBXzYwwuEF/6w1k7vKYTK6vMSqgVcgooNkfb5MaRF2y7MEpPxfStnfwu8knE24ExB0hYE1URxJ9CqB3zMSl/vicXYXXl ;{id = 62530 (zsk), size = 1024b} Key is now trusted! [T] net. 86400 IN DS 35886 8 2 7862b27f5f516ebe19680444d4ce5e762981931842c465f00236401d8bd973ee ;; Domain: net. [T] net. 86400 IN DNSKEY 257 3 8 ;{id = 35886 (ksk), size = 2048b} net. 86400 IN DNSKEY 256 3 8 ;{id = 37703 (zsk), size = 1024b} ;; No DS for nsatc.net.;; No ds record for delegation [B] ;; Error verifying denial of existence for name nsatc.net.NS: No DNSSEC signature(s) cemacmini:~ curtis$ drill -k /tmp/rootkey -DT login.microsoftonline.com.nsatc.net CNAME ;; Number of trusted keys: 2 ;; Domain: . [T] . 172800 IN DNSKEY 256 3 8 ;{id = 62530 (zsk), size = 1024b} . 172800 IN DNSKEY 257 3 8 ;{id = 19036 (ksk), size = 2048b} Checking if signing key is trusted: New key: . 172800 IN DNSKEY 256 3 8 AwEAAbgVvZmZibtBpha3AIykU0OY4gcCXTcskYJUxGsdmV/awfmKcHlSrjNMioSgy4sByj+HpcbsyrZVGPp+JBXzYwwuEF/6w1k7vKYTK6vMSqgVcgooNkfb5MaRF2y7MEpPxfStnfwu8knE24ExB0hYE1URxJ9CqB3zMSl/vicXYXXl ;{id = 62530 (zsk), size = 1024b} Trusted key: . 29585 IN DNSKEY 256 3 8 AwEAAbgVvZmZibtBpha3AIykU0OY4gcCXTcskYJUxGsdmV/awfmKcHlSrjNMioSgy4sByj+HpcbsyrZVGPp+JBXzYwwuEF/6w1k7vKYTK6vMSqgVcgooNkfb5MaRF2y7MEpPxfStnfwu8knE24ExB0hYE1URxJ9CqB3zMSl/vicXYXXl ;{id = 62530 (zsk), size = 1024b} Key is now trusted! Trusted key: . 29585 IN DNSKEY 257 3 8 AwEAAagAIKlVZrpC6Ia7gEzahOR+9W29euxhJhVVLOyQbSEW0O8gcCjFFVQUTf6v58fLjwBd0YI0EzrAcQqBGCzh/RStIoO8g0NfnfL2MTJRkxoXbfDaUeVPQuYEhg37NZWAJQ9VnMVDxP/VHL496M/QZxkjf5/Efucp2gaDX6RS6CXpoY68LsvPVjR0ZSwzz1apAzvN9dlzEheX7ICJBBtuA6G3LQpzW5hOA2hzCTMjJPJ8LbqF6dsV6DoBQzgul0sGIcGOYl7OyQdXfZ57relSQageu+ipAdTTJ25AsRTAoub8ONGcLmqrAmRLKBP1dfwhYB4N7knNnulqQxA+Uk1ihz0= ;{id = 19036 (ksk), size = 2048b} Trusted key: . 172800 IN DNSKEY 256 3 8 AwEAAbgVvZmZibtBpha3AIykU0OY4gcCXTcskYJUxGsdmV/awfmKcHlSrjNMioSgy4sByj+HpcbsyrZVGPp+JBXzYwwuEF/6w1k7vKYTK6vMSqgVcgooNkfb5MaRF2y7MEpPxfStnfwu8knE24ExB0hYE1URxJ9CqB3zMSl/vicXYXXl ;{id = 62530 (zsk), size = 1024b} Key is now trusted! Trusted key: . 172800 IN DNSKEY 257 3 8 AwEAAagAIKlVZrpC6Ia7gEzahOR+9W29euxhJhVVLOyQbSEW0O8gcCjFFVQUTf6v58fLjwBd0YI0EzrAcQqBGCzh/RStIoO8g0NfnfL2MTJRkxoXbfDaUeVPQuYEhg37NZWAJQ9VnMVDxP/VHL496M/QZxkjf5/Efucp2gaDX6RS6CXpoY68LsvPVjR0ZSwzz1apAzvN9dlzEheX7ICJBBtuA6G3LQpzW5hOA2hzCTMjJPJ8LbqF6dsV6DoBQzgul0sGIcGOYl7OyQdXfZ57relSQageu+ipAdTTJ25AsRTAoub8ONGcLmqrAmRLKBP1dfwhYB4N7knNnulqQxA+Uk1ihz0= ;{id = 19036 (ksk), size = 2048b} [T] net. 86400 IN DS 35886 8 2 7862b27f5f516ebe19680444d4ce5e762981931842c465f00236401d8bd973ee ;; Domain: net. [T] net. 86400 IN DNSKEY 257 3 8 ;{id = 35886 (ksk), size = 2048b} net. 86400 IN DNSKEY 256 3 8 ;{id = 37703 (zsk), size = 1024b} [B] Error verifying denial of existence for nsatc.net. DS: General LDNS error ;; No ds record for delegation ;; Domain: nsatc.net. ;; No DNSKEY record found for nsatc.net. ;; No DS for com.nsatc.net.;; No ds record for delegation [B] ;; Error verifying denial of existence for name com.nsatc.net.NS: No DNSSEC signature(s) > On Oct 27, 2015, at 4:59 PM, Bruce Curtis wrote: > > >> On Oct 27, 2015, at 3:37 PM, Bruce Curtis wrote: >> >> >>> On Oct 27, 2015, at 12:35 PM, Tony Finch wrote: >>> >>> Bruce Curtis wrote: >>>> >>>> FYI our DNS requests to resolve login.microsoftonline.com are failing >>>> because of a DNSSEC error. >>> >>> There's no DS record for microsoftonline.com so you shouldn't have any >>> DNSSEC problems with it - my servers can resolve it OK. DNSvis doesn't >>> show any problems. The only thing which might cause trouble is the >>> SERVFAIL responses to DNSKEY queries flagged by the Verisign DNSSEC >>> debugger. >> >> >> DNSvis did list 4 errors earlier. >> >> 4 recursive DNS servers here still fail to resolve login.microsoftonline.com. >> >> I turned DNSSEC validation off on one and it then resolved correctly. >> >> dnssec-validation no; >> >> Thanks for the info. Our customers have reported that it does resolve at the Google public DNS servers also. > > > Drill run on one of our name servers shows that the error is > > Existence denied: microsoftonline.com > > > [ns1 domain]$ drill -k /tmp/rootkey -DT login.microsoftonline.com > ;; Number of trusted keys: 2 > ;; Domain: . > [T] . 172800 IN DNSKEY 256 3 8 ;{id = 62530 (zsk), size = 1024b} > . 172800 IN DNSKEY 257 3 8 ;{id = 19036 (ksk), size = 2048b} > Checking if signing key is trusted: > New key: . 172800 IN DNSKEY 256 3 8 AwEAAbgVvZmZibtBpha3AIykU0OY4gcCXTcskYJUxGsdmV/awfmKcHlSrjNMioSgy4sByj+HpcbsyrZVGPp+JBXzYwwuEF/6w1k7vKYTK6vMSqgVcgooNkfb5MaRF2y7MEpPxfStnfwu8knE24ExB0hYE1URxJ9CqB3zMSl/vicXYXXl ;{id = 62530 (zsk), size = 1024b} > Trusted key: . 143619 IN DNSKEY 256 3 8 AwEAAbgVvZmZibtBpha3AIykU0OY4gcCXTcskYJUxGsdmV/awfmKcHlSrjNMioSgy4sByj+HpcbsyrZVGPp+JBXzYwwuEF/6w1k7vKYTK6vMSqgVcgooNkfb5MaRF2y7MEpPxfStnfwu8knE24ExB0hYE1URxJ9CqB3zMSl/vicXYXXl ;{id = 62530 (zsk), size = 1024b} > Key is now trusted! > Trusted key: . 143619 IN DNSKEY 257 3 8 AwEAAagAIKlVZrpC6Ia7gEzahOR+9W29euxhJhVVLOyQbSEW0O8gcCjFFVQUTf6v58fLjwBd0YI0EzrAcQqBGCzh/RStIoO8g0NfnfL2MTJRkxoXbfDaUeVPQuYEhg37NZWAJQ9VnMVDxP/VHL496M/QZxkjf5/Efucp2gaDX6RS6CXpoY68LsvPVjR0ZSwzz1apAzvN9dlzEheX7ICJBBtuA6G3LQpzW5hOA2hzCTMjJPJ8LbqF6dsV6DoBQzgul0sGIcGOYl7OyQdXfZ57relSQageu+ipAdTTJ25AsRTAoub8ONGcLmqrAmRLKBP1dfwhYB4N7knNnulqQxA+Uk1ihz0= ;{id = 19036 (ksk), size = 2048b} > Trusted key: . 172800 IN DNSKEY 256 3 8 AwEAAbgVvZmZibtBpha3AIykU0OY4gcCXTcskYJUxGsdmV/awfmKcHlSrjNMioSgy4sByj+HpcbsyrZVGPp+JBXzYwwuEF/6w1k7vKYTK6vMSqgVcgooNkfb5MaRF2y7MEpPxfStnfwu8knE24ExB0hYE1URxJ9CqB3zMSl/vicXYXXl ;{id = 62530 (zsk), size = 1024b} > Key is now trusted! > Trusted key: . 172800 IN DNSKEY 257 3 8 AwEAAagAIKlVZrpC6Ia7gEzahOR+9W29euxhJhVVLOyQbSEW0O8gcCjFFVQUTf6v58fLjwBd0YI0EzrAcQqBGCzh/RStIoO8g0NfnfL2MTJRkxoXbfDaUeVPQuYEhg37NZWAJQ9VnMVDxP/VHL496M/QZxkjf5/Efucp2gaDX6RS6CXpoY68LsvPVjR0ZSwzz1apAzvN9dlzEheX7ICJBBtuA6G3LQpzW5hOA2hzCTMjJPJ8LbqF6dsV6DoBQzgul0sGIcGOYl7OyQdXfZ57relSQageu+ipAdTTJ25AsRTAoub8ONGcLmqrAmRLKBP1dfwhYB4N7knNnulqQxA+Uk1ihz0= ;{id = 19036 (ksk), size = 2048b} > [T] com. 86400 IN DS 30909 8 2 e2d3c916f6deeac73294e8268fb5885044a833fc5459588f4a9184cfc41a5766 > ;; Domain: com. > [T] com. 86400 IN DNSKEY 256 3 8 ;{id = 51797 (zsk), size = 1024b} > com. 86400 IN DNSKEY 257 3 8 ;{id = 30909 (ksk), size = 2048b} > [T] Existence denied: microsoftonline.com. DS > ;; No ds record for delegation > ;; Domain: microsoftonline.com. > ;; No DNSKEY record found for microsoftonline.com. > ;; No DS for login.microsoftonline.com.;; No ds record for delegation > ;; Domain: login.microsoftonline.com. > ;; No DNSKEY record found for login.microsoftonline.com. > [U] No data found for: login.microsoftonline.com. type A > ;;[S] self sig OK; [B] bogus; [T] trusted > > >> >>> http://dnssec-debugger.verisignlabs.com/login.microsoftonline.com >>>> >>>> http://dnsviz.net/d/login.microsoftonline.com/dnssec/ >>> >>> Tony. >>> -- >>> f.anthony.n.finch http://dotat.at/ >>> Fitzroy, Sole: Cyclonic, mainly southwesterly, 5 to 7, occasionally gale 8 in >>> west Fitzroy. Very rough or high, becoming rough in Sole. Rain or thundery >>> showers. Moderate or poor, occasionally good. >> >> --- >> Bruce Curtis bruce.curtis at ndsu.edu >> Certified NetAnalyst II 701-231-8527 >> North Dakota State University >> > > --- > Bruce Curtis bruce.curtis at ndsu.edu > Certified NetAnalyst II 701-231-8527 > North Dakota State University > --- Bruce Curtis bruce.curtis at ndsu.edu Certified NetAnalyst II 701-231-8527 North Dakota State University From Avdija at Link.ba Tue Oct 27 19:38:30 2015 From: Avdija at Link.ba (=?iso-8859-2?Q?Avdija_Ahmedhod=BEi=E6?=) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 19:38:30 +0000 Subject: DNSSEC broken for login.microsoftonline.com In-Reply-To: References: <849F2BEE-3E0A-4694-B9F5-27CDFCC79266@ndsu.edu> Message-ID: <49FE74F4-A185-4ADF-9800-C81D67EF0951@link.ba> Also, ns2.bdm.microsoftonline.com is offline for about 12 hours > On 27 Oct 2015, at 18:35, Tony Finch wrote: > > Bruce Curtis wrote: >> >> FYI our DNS requests to resolve login.microsoftonline.com are failing >> because of a DNSSEC error. > > There's no DS record for microsoftonline.com so you shouldn't have any > DNSSEC problems with it - my servers can resolve it OK. DNSvis doesn't > show any problems. The only thing which might cause trouble is the > SERVFAIL responses to DNSKEY queries flagged by the Verisign DNSSEC > debugger. > >> http://dnssec-debugger.verisignlabs.com/login.microsoftonline.com >> >> http://dnsviz.net/d/login.microsoftonline.com/dnssec/ > > Tony. > -- > f.anthony.n.finch http://dotat.at/ > Fitzroy, Sole: Cyclonic, mainly southwesterly, 5 to 7, occasionally gale 8 in > west Fitzroy. Very rough or high, becoming rough in Sole. Rain or thundery > showers. Moderate or poor, occasionally good. From octalnanog at alvarezp.org Wed Oct 28 07:44:04 2015 From: octalnanog at alvarezp.org (Octavio Alvarez) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2015 00:44:04 -0700 Subject: AW: Uptick in spam In-Reply-To: References: <20151026120657.67ecf0ca@jpeach-desktop.anbg.mssm.edu> <1aef7cbfffb84dea8461f0c40db9bcec@anx-i-dag02.anx.local> <562ED5F7.6040300@alvarezp.org> Message-ID: <56307CC4.5070008@alvarezp.org> On 10/27/2015 05:09 AM, Ian Smith wrote: > On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 9:40 PM, Octavio Alvarez > > wrote: > > On 26/10/15 11:38, J?rgen Jaritsch wrote: > > > But it is originating all from different IP addresses. Who knows if this > is an attack to get *@jdlabs.fr blocked from > NANOG and is just getting > its goal accomplished. > > > > This is the part that's been bugging me. Doesn't the NANOG server > implement SPF checking on inbound list mail? jdlabs.fr > doesn't appear to have an SPF record published. It > seems to me that these messages should have been dropped during the > connection. That doesn't stop spam from hijacked accounts. For this case, an account was compromised, apparently. What if after 6 messages in the last 5 minutes with the same or absent 'In-Reply-To' moves the account to moderation mode. Easier said than implemented, though. From dot at dotat.at Wed Oct 28 10:08:38 2015 From: dot at dotat.at (Tony Finch) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2015 10:08:38 +0000 Subject: DNSSEC broken for login.microsoftonline.com In-Reply-To: References: <849F2BEE-3E0A-4694-B9F5-27CDFCC79266@ndsu.edu> Message-ID: Bruce Curtis wrote: > Drill run on one of our name servers shows that the error is > > Existence denied: microsoftonline.com No, drill just says there are no DS records which means the domain is insecure so any problems with it should be unrelated to DNSSEC. > [T] Existence denied: microsoftonline.com. DS > ;; No ds record for delegation > ;; Domain: microsoftonline.com. > ;; No DNSKEY record found for microsoftonline.com. > ;; No DS for login.microsoftonline.com.;; No ds record for delegation > ;; Domain: login.microsoftonline.com. > ;; No DNSKEY record found for login.microsoftonline.com. Tony. -- f.anthony.n.finch http://dotat.at/ North Utsire: Variable 4, but southeasterly 5 to 7 in southwest, perhaps gale 8 later in far southwest. Rough in southwest, otherwise slight or moderate. Fair. Good. From jim at tgasolutions.com Wed Oct 28 16:29:15 2015 From: jim at tgasolutions.com (Jim McBurnett) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2015 12:29:15 -0400 Subject: Global Crossing contact Message-ID: Hi folks, Sorry to add to the noise level, but need to reach someone at level2/3 at Global crossing for a pathing issue. Please contact me offlist so we can figure out where some traffic is being lost. Thanks, Jim [cid:image321144.PNG at 13411130.448fc74e] Jim McBurnett | Senior Network Engineer TGA Solutions 13891 Asheville Highway | Inman, SC 29349 Tel (864) 473-1200 | Support 864-708-0616 Website | Email [cid:image48ea14.GIF at cce627af.4c881bf4] [cid:image0cd093.GIF at 9be97be4.4185bb9a] [cid:image334971.GIF at 85a3af4d.489311ca] [cid:image6b6966.GIF at ef589bf0.4db7e941] [cid:image2cf82a.PNG at a3058521.419c8c19] From dmburgess at linktechs.net Wed Oct 28 16:55:51 2015 From: dmburgess at linktechs.net (Dennis Burgess) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2015 16:55:51 +0000 Subject: IPligence? Message-ID: Anyone have a contact for Ipligence, looks like a company out of Spain that does geoip database work. They have some issues with their database, and can't find a way to get in contact with them. They don't answer their support e-mails. Thanks, [DennisBurgessSignature] www.linktechs.net - 314-735-0270 x103 - dmburgess at linktechs.net From dovid at telecurve.com Wed Oct 28 17:36:34 2015 From: dovid at telecurve.com (Dovid Bender) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2015 17:36:34 +0000 Subject: *tap tap* is this thing on? Message-ID: <312576891-1446053795-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1996510851-@b11.c1.bise6.blackberry> The reason they are the big boys is because they don't fund such operations. They see money before what you call obligations. Right or wrong they will sell a product if they think they can make it work. Making it work is all subjective. You say it means handling abuse complaints while they say it means the client being connected and able to ping the world. ------Original Message------ From: Rich Kulawiec Sender: NANOG To: nanog at nanog.org Subject: Re: *tap tap* is this thing on? Sent: Oct 27, 2015 06:30 On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 02:48:59PM -0600, Brielle Bruns wrote: > I get it that it is hard for large providers to be proactive about > things going on due to the sheer size of their networks, but come > on. That excuse only works for so long. 1. It's not hard. It's far easier for large providers than small ones, although many of them flat-out lie and claim the opposite. 2. Whatever happened to "never build what you can't control?" If you can't stop your operation from emitting abuse, you should shut it down. Immediately. That's what professionals do. 3. Large providers pretend to be "leaders", but are among the worst in terms of actually leading by example. Just try getting a response from them via postmaster@ or abuse at . Of course these large operations should individually answer *every* message to those addresses promptly, 24x7, and initiate immediate investigation/remediation on *every* complaint. That's baseline operational competence 101, and given their enormous financial and personnel resources, it would require only a tiny amount of resources. But they don't -- and everyone else pays the price for it. ---rsk Regards, Dovid From Matt.Mather at gamma.co.uk Wed Oct 28 17:09:08 2015 From: Matt.Mather at gamma.co.uk (Matt Mather) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2015 17:09:08 +0000 Subject: IPligence? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <78998665-C101-4ED6-ACE1-9794F40A2F2E@gamma.co.uk> If anyone does have or obtains a contact I would appreciate a copy it too. I have a similar issue and I concur that they do not respond to emails. Regards, Matt > On 28 Oct 2015, at 16:58, Dennis Burgess wrote: > > Anyone have a contact for Ipligence, looks like a company out of Spain that does geoip database work. They have some issues with their database, and can't find a way to get in contact with them. They don't answer their support e-mails. > > Thanks, > > [DennisBurgessSignature] > www.linktechs.net - 314-735-0270 x103 - dmburgess at linktechs.net > Matt Mather Border Network & Transit Design Technical Lead T: 0333 240 3348 M: 07848 026 072 E: Matt.Mather at gamma.co.uk W: www.gamma.co.uk This is an email from Gamma Telecom Ltd, trading as ?Gamma?. The contents of this email are confidential to the ordinary user of the email address to which it was addressed. This email is not intended to create any legal relationship. No one else may place any reliance upon it, or copy or forward all or any of it in any form (unless otherwise notified). If you receive this email in error, please accept our apologies, we would be obliged if you would telephone our postmaster on +44 (0) 808 178 9652 or email postmaster at gamma.co.uk Gamma Telecom Limited, a company incorporated in England and Wales, with limited liability, with registered number 04340834, and whose registered office is at 5 Fleet Place London EC4M 7RD and whose principal place of business is at Kings House, Kings Road West, Newbury, Berkshire, RG14 5BY. From bill at herrin.us Wed Oct 28 19:10:47 2015 From: bill at herrin.us (William Herrin) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2015 15:10:47 -0400 Subject: spam smackdown? In-Reply-To: References: <20151024193938.93377B49@m0086238.ppops.net> Message-ID: On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 3:03 PM, Patrick W. Gilmore wrote: > 3) Anyone who feels this is so frickin? bad it is unbearable, and > knows they could do SO MUCH BETTER themselves, should > volunteer for the Communications Committee. Otherwise, > everyone should thank the unpaid volunteers for their gracious > and excellent work day after day, year after year. Or just STFU. Yes, yes, the volunteers are all wonderful people and can I get a hip-hip-hooray. Nevertheless, before I "STFU" I would politely suggest that volunteering to perform a function for which one is not prepared to put in the needed effort is generally worse than not volunteering at all. Volunteering blocks other would-be volunteers for the same effort. Even if there are no other volunteers, it prevents the function from being farmed out to a paid service with the appropriate diligence and expertise. I would urge the current volunteers to careful consider whether they're willing and able to put in the exceptional effort and commitment of time and availability needed to competently operate a mailing list server on today's Internet. Failing to halt a spam flood in a timely manner does not exhibit a reasonable level of commitment to the task. One simply can't walk away from a mail server for a couple of days any more. Even volunteer efforts require the kind of monitoring and on-call rotations we all use in our professional lives. Regards, Bill Herrin -- William Herrin ................ herrin at dirtside.com bill at herrin.us Owner, Dirtside Systems ......... Web: From jimpop at gmail.com Wed Oct 28 19:28:08 2015 From: jimpop at gmail.com (Jim Popovitch) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2015 15:28:08 -0400 Subject: AW: Uptick in spam In-Reply-To: <56307CC4.5070008@alvarezp.org> References: <20151026120657.67ecf0ca@jpeach-desktop.anbg.mssm.edu> <1aef7cbfffb84dea8461f0c40db9bcec@anx-i-dag02.anx.local> <562ED5F7.6040300@alvarezp.org> <56307CC4.5070008@alvarezp.org> Message-ID: On Wed, Oct 28, 2015 at 3:44 AM, Octavio Alvarez wrote: > > > On 10/27/2015 05:09 AM, Ian Smith wrote: >> >> On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 9:40 PM, Octavio Alvarez >> > wrote: >> >> On 26/10/15 11:38, J?rgen Jaritsch wrote: >> >> >> But it is originating all from different IP addresses. Who knows if >> this >> is an attack to get *@jdlabs.fr blocked from >> NANOG and is just getting >> its goal accomplished. >> >> >> >> This is the part that's been bugging me. Doesn't the NANOG server >> implement SPF checking on inbound list mail? jdlabs.fr >> doesn't appear to have an SPF record published. It >> seems to me that these messages should have been dropped during the >> connection. > > > That doesn't stop spam from hijacked accounts. > > For this case, an account was compromised, apparently. There was no account compromise, it was only oddball webservers that were compromised and then used in a spam run where the From was set to a nanog subscriber's email address. > What if after 6 messages in the last 5 minutes with the same or absent > 'In-Reply-To' moves he account to moderation mode. > > Easier said than implemented, though. > This is already under consideration, by me, for a mailman patch. It's a good idea that has been around for a while and is well worth having as an option. -Jim P. From andy at newslink.com Wed Oct 28 19:43:49 2015 From: andy at newslink.com (Andy Ringsmuth) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2015 14:43:49 -0500 Subject: Anyone here from Orbitz? Message-ID: <8073DB19-5B7C-440A-89E3-8B889BCB987E@newslink.com> Any chance someone on the list from Orbitz? Car rentals are suddenly impossible to book. It seems there?s a session timeout set to essentially zero. Selecting a vehicle returns this URL: http://www.orbitz.com/shop/home?errorId=3207 And an error of ?We?ve noticed you?ve been away from this page for a while and your session has timed out. Please try again.? ---- Andy Ringsmuth andy at newslink.com News Link ? Manager Travel, Technology & Facilities 2201 Winthrop Rd., Lincoln, NE 68502-4158 (402) 475-6397 (402) 304-0083 cellular From lorell at hathcock.org Wed Oct 28 21:06:30 2015 From: lorell at hathcock.org (lorell at hathcock.org) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2015 16:06:30 -0500 Subject: speedtest vs geo-coding IP info Message-ID: <03b801d111c4$84c5c1f0$8e5145d0$@hathcock.org> Legions of NANOG: Here's an interesting problem. My customers are running speedtests from Ookla's speedtest.net site. The default site is in Kansas and not in Texas where we receive our internet connection. Questions: 1. How do I go about viewing the geo-coded data that accompanies my IP addresses? This is obviously a database that is kept for geo-coding purposes. The whois info for the block in question traces back to a superblock formerly owned by PSINet, Inc and has a Washington, DC address. I conclude that the geo-coding used by speedtest.net is not from the whois database. 2. If I pestered my carrier to SWIP the IP address block to me (as they should have?) would that help me solve my problem? 3. Is there anything else I need to be thinking of that would help me have better control of my geo-coding info? Are there third-party self sign up/volunteer database which house geo-coding info? Thanks in advance! Sincerely, Lorell Hathcock Chief Technology Officer SolStar Network, LLC Communications FIBER - VOIP - SECURITY - TV FTTH - Commercial - Residential Burglar - Access Control 956-478-5955 (cell) - 956-316-4090 (main) lorell at SolStarNetwork.com www.SolStarNetwork.com TX License #B19998 From josh at imaginenetworksllc.com Wed Oct 28 21:17:55 2015 From: josh at imaginenetworksllc.com (Josh Luthman) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2015 17:17:55 -0400 Subject: speedtest vs geo-coding IP info In-Reply-To: <03b801d111c4$84c5c1f0$8e5145d0$@hathcock.org> References: <03b801d111c4$84c5c1f0$8e5145d0$@hathcock.org> Message-ID: Best resource: http://nanog.cluepon.net/index.php/GeoIP Been down for a good long time now This is the only copy I know of it: http://web.archive.org/web/20130122055317/http://nanog.cluepon.net/index.php/GeoIP Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Wed, Oct 28, 2015 at 5:06 PM, wrote: > Legions of NANOG: > > > > Here's an interesting problem. > > > > My customers are running speedtests from Ookla's speedtest.net site. The > default site is in Kansas and not in Texas where we receive our internet > connection. > > > > Questions: > > 1. How do I go about viewing the geo-coded data that accompanies my > IP > addresses? This is obviously a database that is kept for geo-coding > purposes. The whois info for the block in question traces back to a > superblock formerly owned by PSINet, Inc and has a Washington, DC address. > I conclude that the geo-coding used by speedtest.net is not from the whois > database. > > 2. If I pestered my carrier to SWIP the IP address block to me (as > they should have?) would that help me solve my problem? > > 3. Is there anything else I need to be thinking of that would help me > have better control of my geo-coding info? Are there third-party self sign > up/volunteer database which house geo-coding info? > > > > Thanks in advance! > > > > Sincerely, > > > > Lorell Hathcock > > Chief Technology Officer > > > > > > > SolStar Network, LLC > > Communications > > FIBER - VOIP - SECURITY - TV > > FTTH - Commercial - Residential > > Burglar - Access Control > > 956-478-5955 (cell) - 956-316-4090 (main) > > lorell at SolStarNetwork.com > > www.SolStarNetwork.com > > TX License #B19998 > > > > > > From octalnanog at alvarezp.org Wed Oct 28 21:54:27 2015 From: octalnanog at alvarezp.org (Octavio Alvarez) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2015 14:54:27 -0700 Subject: Uptick in spam In-Reply-To: <562F70B8.1090702@netzwerklabor.at> References: <20151026120657.67ecf0ca@jpeach-desktop.anbg.mssm.edu> <1aef7cbfffb84dea8461f0c40db9bcec@anx-i-dag02.anx.local> <562ED5F7.6040300@alvarezp.org> <562F70B8.1090702@netzwerklabor.at> Message-ID: <56314413.7000605@alvarezp.org> On 27/10/15 05:40, Jutta Zalud wrote: >>> But it is originating all from different IP addresses. Who knows if this >>> is an attack to get *@jdlabs.fr blocked from NANOG and is just getting >>> its goal accomplished. >> >> This is the part that's been bugging me. Doesn't the NANOG server >> implement SPF checking on inbound list mail? jdlabs.fr doesn't appear to >> have an SPF record published. It seems to me that these messages should >> have been dropped during the connection. Well... an empty record is pretty much the same as "?all" anyway. The correct interpretation from the receiving MTA is "The SPF (if it exists) doesn't say if this is spam or not". This could, of course, vary from implementation to implementation. > If it does (which I don't know), it will probably check the SPF record > of the delivering mailserver, which was not *.jdlabs.fr as far as I can > see from the mailheaders. And also, most of the MX records end in ~all or ?all anyway, and ?all is the default if no "all" is defined, and the lack of jdlabs.fr SPF record is the equivalent of being defined as "?all". I now wonder if there is *really* a case for the ~ and ? operators in SPF and if we could deprecate ?all and ~all, and change the default to -all, by RFC. This would be just to make SPF useful. In its current state it asserts nothing, and --by its definition-- it forces no work from anybody. Best regards. From lorell at hathcock.org Wed Oct 28 22:39:32 2015 From: lorell at hathcock.org (Lorell Hathcock) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2015 17:39:32 -0500 Subject: speedtest vs geo-coding IP info In-Reply-To: References: <03b801d111c4$84c5c1f0$8e5145d0$@hathcock.org> Message-ID: <040901d111d1$841c2890$8c5479b0$@hathcock.org> All: Very helpful. Another also helped me track down that Ookla uses MaxMind.com for their GeoIP data. I was able to submit a GeoIP location correction request. A guy at speedtest.net suggested that MaxMind may pay me no mind because my upstream ISP may need to submit the request. That makes perfect sense to me, but it doesn?t hurt to try I hope. Thanks NANOG! You?re the best! -L From: Josh Luthman [mailto:josh at imaginenetworksllc.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2015 4:18 PM To: Lorell Hathcock Cc: NANOG list Subject: Re: speedtest vs geo-coding IP info Best resource: http://nanog.cluepon.net/index.php/GeoIP Been down for a good long time now This is the only copy I know of it: http://web.archive.org/web/20130122055317/http://nanog.cluepon.net/index.php/GeoIP Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Wed, Oct 28, 2015 at 5:06 PM, > wrote: Legions of NANOG: Here's an interesting problem. My customers are running speedtests from Ookla's speedtest.net site. The default site is in Kansas and not in Texas where we receive our internet connection. Questions: 1. How do I go about viewing the geo-coded data that accompanies my IP addresses? This is obviously a database that is kept for geo-coding purposes. The whois info for the block in question traces back to a superblock formerly owned by PSINet, Inc and has a Washington, DC address. I conclude that the geo-coding used by speedtest.net is not from the whois database. 2. If I pestered my carrier to SWIP the IP address block to me (as they should have?) would that help me solve my problem? 3. Is there anything else I need to be thinking of that would help me have better control of my geo-coding info? Are there third-party self sign up/volunteer database which house geo-coding info? Thanks in advance! Sincerely, Lorell Hathcock Chief Technology Officer SolStar Network, LLC Communications FIBER - VOIP - SECURITY - TV FTTH - Commercial - Residential Burglar - Access Control 956-478-5955 (cell) - 956-316-4090 (main) > lorell at SolStarNetwork.com www.SolStarNetwork.com TX License #B19998 From josh at imaginenetworksllc.com Wed Oct 28 22:40:59 2015 From: josh at imaginenetworksllc.com (Josh Luthman) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2015 18:40:59 -0400 Subject: speedtest vs geo-coding IP info In-Reply-To: <040901d111d1$841c2890$8c5479b0$@hathcock.org> References: <03b801d111c4$84c5c1f0$8e5145d0$@hathcock.org> <040901d111d1$841c2890$8c5479b0$@hathcock.org> Message-ID: Your block should be SWIP'ed irrelevant of geolocation/Speedtest server/etc if it's sizable. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Wed, Oct 28, 2015 at 6:39 PM, Lorell Hathcock wrote: > All: > > > > Very helpful. Another also helped me track down that Ookla uses > MaxMind.com for their GeoIP data. I was able to submit a GeoIP location > correction request. A guy at speedtest.net suggested that MaxMind may > pay me no mind because my upstream ISP may need to submit the request. > That makes perfect sense to me, but it doesn?t hurt to try I hope. > > > > Thanks NANOG! You?re the best! > > > > -L > > > > *From:* Josh Luthman [mailto:josh at imaginenetworksllc.com] > *Sent:* Wednesday, October 28, 2015 4:18 PM > *To:* Lorell Hathcock > *Cc:* NANOG list > *Subject:* Re: speedtest vs geo-coding IP info > > > > Best resource: http://nanog.cluepon.net/index.php/GeoIP > > Been down for a good long time now > > > > This is the only copy I know of it: > > > http://web.archive.org/web/20130122055317/http://nanog.cluepon.net/index.php/GeoIP > > > > > > Josh Luthman > Office: 937-552-2340 > Direct: 937-552-2343 > 1100 Wayne St > Suite 1337 > Troy, OH 45373 > > > > On Wed, Oct 28, 2015 at 5:06 PM, wrote: > > Legions of NANOG: > > > > Here's an interesting problem. > > > > My customers are running speedtests from Ookla's speedtest.net site. The > default site is in Kansas and not in Texas where we receive our internet > connection. > > > > Questions: > > 1. How do I go about viewing the geo-coded data that accompanies my > IP > addresses? This is obviously a database that is kept for geo-coding > purposes. The whois info for the block in question traces back to a > superblock formerly owned by PSINet, Inc and has a Washington, DC address. > I conclude that the geo-coding used by speedtest.net is not from the whois > database. > > 2. If I pestered my carrier to SWIP the IP address block to me (as > they should have?) would that help me solve my problem? > > 3. Is there anything else I need to be thinking of that would help me > have better control of my geo-coding info? Are there third-party self sign > up/volunteer database which house geo-coding info? > > > > Thanks in advance! > > > > Sincerely, > > > > Lorell Hathcock > > Chief Technology Officer > > > > > > > SolStar Network, LLC > > Communications > > FIBER - VOIP - SECURITY - TV > > FTTH - Commercial - Residential > > Burglar - Access Control > > 956-478-5955 (cell) - 956-316-4090 (main) > > lorell at SolStarNetwork.com > > www.SolStarNetwork.com > > TX License #B19998 > > > > > > From nanog at ics-il.net Wed Oct 28 22:56:25 2015 From: nanog at ics-il.net (Mike Hammett) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2015 17:56:25 -0500 (CDT) Subject: speedtest vs geo-coding IP info In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <413607874.7184.1446073026849.JavaMail.mhammett@ThunderFuck> Agreed. If you have more than a /29, it needs to be SWIPed to you regardless. Then you have a little more authority with getting GeoIP changes made. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest Internet Exchange http://www.midwest-ix.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Josh Luthman" To: "Lorell Hathcock" Cc: "NANOG list" Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2015 5:40:59 PM Subject: Re: speedtest vs geo-coding IP info Your block should be SWIP'ed irrelevant of geolocation/Speedtest server/etc if it's sizable. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Wed, Oct 28, 2015 at 6:39 PM, Lorell Hathcock wrote: > All: > > > > Very helpful. Another also helped me track down that Ookla uses > MaxMind.com for their GeoIP data. I was able to submit a GeoIP location > correction request. A guy at speedtest.net suggested that MaxMind may > pay me no mind because my upstream ISP may need to submit the request. > That makes perfect sense to me, but it doesn?t hurt to try I hope. > > > > Thanks NANOG! You?re the best! > > > > -L > > > > *From:* Josh Luthman [mailto:josh at imaginenetworksllc.com] > *Sent:* Wednesday, October 28, 2015 4:18 PM > *To:* Lorell Hathcock > *Cc:* NANOG list > *Subject:* Re: speedtest vs geo-coding IP info > > > > Best resource: http://nanog.cluepon.net/index.php/GeoIP > > Been down for a good long time now > > > > This is the only copy I know of it: > > > http://web.archive.org/web/20130122055317/http://nanog.cluepon.net/index.php/GeoIP > > > > > > Josh Luthman > Office: 937-552-2340 > Direct: 937-552-2343 > 1100 Wayne St > Suite 1337 > Troy, OH 45373 > > > > On Wed, Oct 28, 2015 at 5:06 PM, wrote: > > Legions of NANOG: > > > > Here's an interesting problem. > > > > My customers are running speedtests from Ookla's speedtest.net site. The > default site is in Kansas and not in Texas where we receive our internet > connection. > > > > Questions: > > 1. How do I go about viewing the geo-coded data that accompanies my > IP > addresses? This is obviously a database that is kept for geo-coding > purposes. The whois info for the block in question traces back to a > superblock formerly owned by PSINet, Inc and has a Washington, DC address. > I conclude that the geo-coding used by speedtest.net is not from the whois > database. > > 2. If I pestered my carrier to SWIP the IP address block to me (as > they should have?) would that help me solve my problem? > > 3. Is there anything else I need to be thinking of that would help me > have better control of my geo-coding info? Are there third-party self sign > up/volunteer database which house geo-coding info? > > > > Thanks in advance! > > > > Sincerely, > > > > Lorell Hathcock > > Chief Technology Officer > > > > > > > SolStar Network, LLC > > Communications > > FIBER - VOIP - SECURITY - TV > > FTTH - Commercial - Residential > > Burglar - Access Control > > 956-478-5955 (cell) - 956-316-4090 (main) > > lorell at SolStarNetwork.com > > www.SolStarNetwork.com > > TX License #B19998 > > > > > > From larrysheldon at cox.net Thu Oct 29 00:51:40 2015 From: larrysheldon at cox.net (Larry Sheldon) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2015 19:51:40 -0500 Subject: All in favor or..... In-Reply-To: References: <562E615B.6030905@cox.net> Message-ID: <56316D9C.3040306@cox.net> On 10/28/2015 19:15, Matthew Petach wrote: > I work 8 hours a day... > > ...and then I work another 8. A long time ago, in a place far, far away, the PTB determined that we should change from a three-team, three-8-hour shifts, 5 days a week ("days", "evenings", and "nights" (aka "graves" or "graveyard") for 7 x 24 coverage, to a four-team, 12 1/2 hour day 3 day week (and you know, I have forgotten how we covered the 7th day!). For the 2nd-level managers like me, the reaction was "Wow! I will only have to work 12-18 hours three days a week! -- sed quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (Juvenal) From marcel.duregards at yahoo.fr Thu Oct 29 08:16:48 2015 From: marcel.duregards at yahoo.fr (marcel.duregards at yahoo.fr) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 09:16:48 +0100 Subject: configuration sanity check Message-ID: <5631D5F0.5030705@yahoo.fr> Hi Nanogers, Any recommendation about a software which check the live config of cisco/juniper devices against some templates ? The goal is to have a template about different function device, like: - CORE device must have this bloc and this clock - PE device must have at least that and that - CPE must have this and that - Distrib switch block 1 and block2 - etc... And the software run once every day to check which device do not comply with those rules and generate an alert. Thank, - Marcel From dcorbe at hammerfiber.com Thu Oct 29 12:28:24 2015 From: dcorbe at hammerfiber.com (Daniel Corbe) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 08:28:24 -0400 Subject: configuration sanity check In-Reply-To: <5631D5F0.5030705@yahoo.fr> (marcel's message of "Thu, 29 Oct 2015 09:16:48 +0100") References: <5631D5F0.5030705@yahoo.fr> Message-ID: <87eggd505z.fsf@corbe.net> "marcel.duregards at yahoo.fr" writes: > Hi Nanogers, > > Any recommendation about a software which check the live config of > cisco/juniper devices against some templates ? > > The goal is to have a template about different function device, like: > - CORE device must have this bloc and this clock > - PE device must have at least that and that > - CPE must have this and that > - Distrib switch block 1 and block2 > - etc... > > And the software run once every day to check which device do not > comply with those rules and generate an alert. > > Thank, > - Marcel You can also catch and minimize mistakes in real-time by: 1) Implementing and enforcing a proper change control system 2) Implementing tools like Rancid, which are designed to scrape router configs and E-Mail changes in the format of a unified diff to everyone in your engineering team. 3) Make liberal use of tools like RtConfig so routine changes aren't a painful (read: manual) time-consuming process. From jabley at hopcount.ca Thu Oct 29 11:10:44 2015 From: jabley at hopcount.ca (Joe Abley) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 07:10:44 -0400 Subject: configuration sanity check In-Reply-To: <5631D5F0.5030705@yahoo.fr> References: <5631D5F0.5030705@yahoo.fr> Message-ID: <-6951354313991150345@unknownmsgid> Salut Marcel, On Oct 29, 2015, at 04:16, "marcel.duregards at yahoo.fr" wrote: > Any recommendation about a software which check the live config of cisco/juniper devices against some templates ? > > The goal is to have a template about different function device, like: > - CORE device must have this bloc and this clock > - PE device must have at least that and that > - CPE must have this and that > - Distrib switch block 1 and block2 > - etc... Not precisely what you wanted but some pointers for doing it yourself: https://www.nanog.org/meetings/nanog26/presentations/stephen.pdf The example code was still on ftp.isc.org last time I checked. Joe Aue Te Ariki! He toki ki roto taku mahuna! From SNaslund at medline.com Thu Oct 29 12:11:54 2015 From: SNaslund at medline.com (Naslund, Steve) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 12:11:54 +0000 Subject: configuration sanity check In-Reply-To: <5631D5F0.5030705@yahoo.fr> References: <5631D5F0.5030705@yahoo.fr> Message-ID: <9578293AE169674F9A048B2BC9A081B401C7B16C12@MUNPRDMBXA1.medline.com> I use a system called Device Expert that does exactly what you say below. I am not affiliated with them just a satisfied customer. https://www.manageengine.com/network-configuration-manager/ Steven Naslund Chicago IL -----Original Message----- From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces at nanog.org] On Behalf Of marcel.duregards at yahoo.fr Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2015 3:17 AM To: nanog Subject: configuration sanity check Hi Nanogers, Any recommendation about a software which check the live config of cisco/juniper devices against some templates ? The goal is to have a template about different function device, like: - CORE device must have this bloc and this clock - PE device must have at least that and that - CPE must have this and that - Distrib switch block 1 and block2 - etc... And the software run once every day to check which device do not comply with those rules and generate an alert. Thank, - Marcel From cra at WPI.EDU Thu Oct 29 12:23:41 2015 From: cra at WPI.EDU (Chuck Anderson) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 08:23:41 -0400 Subject: configuration sanity check In-Reply-To: <5631D5F0.5030705@yahoo.fr> References: <5631D5F0.5030705@yahoo.fr> Message-ID: <20151029122341.GG13131@angus.ind.wpi.edu> On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 09:16:48AM +0100, marcel.duregards at yahoo.fr wrote: > Hi Nanogers, > > Any recommendation about a software which check the live config of > cisco/juniper devices against some templates ? > > The goal is to have a template about different function device, like: > - CORE device must have this bloc and this clock > - PE device must have at least that and that > - CPE must have this and that > - Distrib switch block 1 and block2 > - etc... > > And the software run once every day to check which device do not > comply with those rules and generate an alert. For Juniper at least, you can use "commit scripts" to enforce these rules in real time each time a configuration commit is performed--if the candidiate configuration change doesn't follow the rules, the commit fails (or the configuration can be changed automatically to do something). For example "all interfaces must have a description on them", or "changes to MSTI configuration are not allowed". From mike-nanog at tiedyenetworks.com Thu Oct 29 15:42:31 2015 From: mike-nanog at tiedyenetworks.com (Mike) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 08:42:31 -0700 Subject: DDoS mitigation for ISPs Message-ID: <56323E67.8010304@tiedyenetworks.com> Hello, Is there any DDoS mitigation service provider that can scrub traffic for an ISP network? I have an ASN and BGP and my own netblocks, and I have a 1gbps pipe. I was thinking the scenario would be during attack, we could bring up a tunnel and run bgp over it and advertise some portion of our ip space thru it. I realise getting it setup while attack is taking place would be a little hard and that we likely could expect at least some down time. What we have seen so far has been reflection attacks (dns and ssdp) and we have been able to do rate limiting on these and other protocols to sane values. This has worked well, although the primary risk is once the traffic flow exceeds the link capacity such limiting won't have any net effect. But if we could farm this out during times of trouble to a mitigation services provider, they could advertise our block(s) and rate limit and scrub for us and send us the result, it would be a far better than what we have now (which is effectively nothing). I asked cloudflare this and they stated they are focused on web traffic. My upstream can't help me, doesn't support RTBH and won't install filters anyways unless it's impacting THEIR network. Just wondering if anyone has any other ideas (short of ditching my provider, which I also can't do due at this time due to lack of competitive choice). Mike- From jason+nanog at lixfeld.ca Thu Oct 29 11:14:27 2015 From: jason+nanog at lixfeld.ca (Jason Lixfeld) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 07:14:27 -0400 Subject: configuration sanity check In-Reply-To: <5631D5F0.5030705@yahoo.fr> References: <5631D5F0.5030705@yahoo.fr> Message-ID: <4E8417F8-C22D-4275-861B-92EAC2658EB4@lixfeld.ca> Either of these might come in handy.. https://www.nanog.org/meetings/abstract?id=2673 https://www.nanog.org/meetings/abstract?id=2678 > On Oct 29, 2015, at 4:16 AM, marcel.duregards at yahoo.fr wrote: > > Hi Nanogers, > > Any recommendation about a software which check the live config of cisco/juniper devices against some templates ? > > The goal is to have a template about different function device, like: > - CORE device must have this bloc and this clock > - PE device must have at least that and that > - CPE must have this and that > - Distrib switch block 1 and block2 > - etc... > > And the software run once every day to check which device do not comply with those rules and generate an alert. > > Thank, > - Marcel From loncek at energomail.sk Thu Oct 29 11:18:09 2015 From: loncek at energomail.sk (Michal Loncek) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 12:18:09 +0100 Subject: configuration sanity check In-Reply-To: <5631D5F0.5030705@yahoo.fr> References: <5631D5F0.5030705@yahoo.fr> Message-ID: <56320071.2090105@energomail.sk> On 10/29/2015 09:16 AM, marcel.duregards at yahoo.fr wrote: > Hi Nanogers, > > Any recommendation about a software which check the live config of cisco/juniper devices against > some templates ? > > The goal is to have a template about different function device, like: > - CORE device must have this bloc and this clock > - PE device must have at least that and that > - CPE must have this and that > - Distrib switch block 1 and block2 > - etc... > > And the software run once every day to check which device do not comply with those rules and > generate an alert. > > Thank, > - Marcel > http://www.gelogic.net/cisco-template-manager/ From chip.gwyn at gmail.com Thu Oct 29 12:23:32 2015 From: chip.gwyn at gmail.com (chip) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 08:23:32 -0400 Subject: configuration sanity check In-Reply-To: <5631D5F0.5030705@yahoo.fr> References: <5631D5F0.5030705@yahoo.fr> Message-ID: I've used ansible for this and generated config based on roles. It's a little weird to get started but allows modularization of config. You can then go so far as have the same "functions" for different platforms and software versions. To be clear, this was just for config generation, not verifying it was on the device or pushing it to the device. --chip On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 4:16 AM, marcel.duregards at yahoo.fr < marcel.duregards at yahoo.fr> wrote: > Hi Nanogers, > > Any recommendation about a software which check the live config of > cisco/juniper devices against some templates ? > > The goal is to have a template about different function device, like: > - CORE device must have this bloc and this clock > - PE device must have at least that and that > - CPE must have this and that > - Distrib switch block 1 and block2 > - etc... > > And the software run once every day to check which device do not comply > with those rules and generate an alert. > > Thank, > - Marcel > -- Just my $.02, your mileage may vary, batteries not included, etc.... From xenith at xenith.org Thu Oct 29 14:42:00 2015 From: xenith at xenith.org (Justin Seabrook-Rocha) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 07:42:00 -0700 Subject: configuration sanity check In-Reply-To: <5631D5F0.5030705@yahoo.fr> References: <5631D5F0.5030705@yahoo.fr> Message-ID: On Oct 29, 2015, at 01:16, marcel.duregards at yahoo.fr wrote: > > Hi Nanogers, > > Any recommendation about a software which check the live config of cisco/juniper devices against some templates ? > > The goal is to have a template about different function device, like: > - CORE device must have this bloc and this clock > - PE device must have at least that and that > - CPE must have this and that > - Distrib switch block 1 and block2 > - etc... > > And the software run once every day to check which device do not comply with those rules and generate an alert. > > Thank, > - Marcel We implemented an in-house solution using Cisco Template Manager (http://www.gelogic.net/cisco-template-manager/). Its basically a bunch of bash/perl scripts doing regex matching against the saved configs from RANCID. Works fine for both Cisco and Juniper. It requires some hand tooling, but we have it doing exactly what you want (checking against different device function templates). Justin Seabrook-Rocha -- Xenith || xenith at xenith.org || http://xenith.org/ Jabber: xenith at xenith.org From job at instituut.net Thu Oct 29 15:53:55 2015 From: job at instituut.net (Job Snijders) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 16:53:55 +0100 Subject: DDoS mitigation for ISPs In-Reply-To: <56323E67.8010304@tiedyenetworks.com> References: <56323E67.8010304@tiedyenetworks.com> Message-ID: <20151029155355.GA24841@22.rev.meerval.net> On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 08:42:31AM -0700, Mike wrote: > Is there any DDoS mitigation service provider that can scrub traffic > for an ISP network? Yeah, plenty. A non-exhaustive list: Prolexic, Incapsula, Staminus or Nexusguard. There is no lack of choice. > I have an ASN and BGP and my own netblocks, and I have a 1gbps pipe. I > was thinking the scenario would be during attack, we could bring up a > tunnel and run bgp over it and advertise some portion of our ip space > thru it. I realise getting it setup while attack is taking place would > be a little hard and that we likely could expect at least some down > time. It is more common to set up the GRE tunnel before hand, and just send out the BGP announcement of the /24 when an IP within that /24 is under attack. Kind regards, Job From hugo at slabnet.com Thu Oct 29 15:54:06 2015 From: hugo at slabnet.com (Hugo Slabbert) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 08:54:06 -0700 Subject: DDoS mitigation for ISPs In-Reply-To: <56323E67.8010304@tiedyenetworks.com> References: <56323E67.8010304@tiedyenetworks.com> Message-ID: <20151029155406.GJ8033@bamboo.slabnet.com> On Thu 2015-Oct-29 08:42:31 -0700, Mike wrote: >Hello, > > Is there any DDoS mitigation service provider that can scrub >traffic for an ISP network? I have an ASN and BGP and my own >netblocks, and I have a 1gbps pipe. I was thinking the scenario would >be during attack, we could bring up a tunnel and run bgp over it and >advertise some portion of our ip space thru it. I realise getting it >setup while attack is taking place would be a little hard and that we >likely could expect at least some down time. What we have seen so far >has been reflection attacks (dns and ssdp) and we have been able to >do rate limiting on these and other protocols to sane values. This >has worked well, although the primary risk is once the traffic flow >exceeds the link capacity such limiting won't have any net effect. >But if we could farm this out during times of trouble to a mitigation >services provider, they could advertise our block(s) and rate limit >and scrub for us and send us the result, it would be a far better >than what we have now (which is effectively nothing). I asked >cloudflare this and they stated they are focused on web traffic. My >upstream can't help me, doesn't support RTBH and won't install >filters anyways unless it's impacting THEIR network. Just wondering >if anyone has any other ideas (short of ditching my provider, which I >also can't do due at this time due to lack of competitive choice). > >Mike- > In no particular order: - Prolexic (Akamai) - Arbor Networks - Staminus - Black Lotus - Incapsula - Radware This is not an endorsement for any of the above. Alternatively: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=ddos+protection -- Hugo hugo at slabnet.com: email, xmpp/jabber PGP fingerprint (B178313E): CF18 15FA 9FE4 0CD1 2319 1D77 9AB1 0FFD B178 313E (also on textsecure & redphone) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From mike-nanog at tiedyenetworks.com Thu Oct 29 18:36:56 2015 From: mike-nanog at tiedyenetworks.com (Mike) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 11:36:56 -0700 Subject: DDoS mitigation for ISPs In-Reply-To: <20151029155406.GJ8033@bamboo.slabnet.com> References: <56323E67.8010304@tiedyenetworks.com> <20151029155406.GJ8033@bamboo.slabnet.com> Message-ID: <56326748.40405@tiedyenetworks.com> On 10/29/2015 08:54 AM, Hugo Slabbert wrote: > > On Thu 2015-Oct-29 08:42:31 -0700, Mike > wrote: > >> Hello, >> >> Is there any DDoS mitigation service provider that can scrub >> traffic for an ISP network? I have an ASN and BGP and my own >> netblocks, and I have a 1gbps pipe. I was thinking the scenario would >> be during attack, we could bring up a tunnel and run bgp over it and >> advertise some portion of our ip space thru it. I realise getting it >> setup while attack is taking place would be a little hard and that we >> likely could expect at least some down time. What we have seen so far >> has been reflection attacks (dns and ssdp) and we have been able to >> do rate limiting on these and other protocols to sane values. This >> has worked well, although the primary risk is once the traffic flow >> exceeds the link capacity such limiting won't have any net effect. >> But if we could farm this out during times of trouble to a mitigation >> services provider, they could advertise our block(s) and rate limit >> and scrub for us and send us the result, it would be a far better >> than what we have now (which is effectively nothing). I asked >> cloudflare this and they stated they are focused on web traffic. My >> upstream can't help me, doesn't support RTBH and won't install >> filters anyways unless it's impacting THEIR network. Just wondering >> if anyone has any other ideas (short of ditching my provider, which I >> also can't do due at this time due to lack of competitive choice). >> >> Mike- >> > > In no particular order: > > - Prolexic (Akamai) > - Arbor Networks > - Staminus > - Black Lotus > - Incapsula > - Radware > > This is not an endorsement for any of the above. > Alternatively: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=ddos+protection > Actually I did the google thing first and followed up with several of the top results, and not once did I see anyone offering a bgp tunnel + scrub which is why I asked. I did get some good off list responses however, thanks all. Mike- From jlmcgraw at gmail.com Thu Oct 29 19:06:23 2015 From: jlmcgraw at gmail.com (Jesse McGraw) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 15:06:23 -0400 Subject: configuration sanity check In-Reply-To: <5631D5F0.5030705@yahoo.fr> References: <5631D5F0.5030705@yahoo.fr> Message-ID: <56326E2F.7060004@gmail.com> Historically there was RAT (Router Audit Tool). You'll have to do some googling to see where it's hosted now and whether or not it's still being developed as I haven't looked at it in years. On 10/29/2015 04:16 AM, marcel.duregards at yahoo.fr wrote: > Hi Nanogers, > > Any recommendation about a software which check the live config of > cisco/juniper devices against some templates ? > > The goal is to have a template about different function device, like: > - CORE device must have this bloc and this clock > - PE device must have at least that and that > - CPE must have this and that > - Distrib switch block 1 and block2 > - etc... > > And the software run once every day to check which device do not > comply with those rules and generate an alert. > > Thank, > - Marcel > From fergdawgster at mykolab.com Thu Oct 29 19:24:08 2015 From: fergdawgster at mykolab.com (Paul Ferguson) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 15:24:08 -0400 Subject: configuration sanity check In-Reply-To: <56326E2F.7060004@gmail.com> References: <5631D5F0.5030705@yahoo.fr> <56326E2F.7060004@gmail.com> Message-ID: <850A3BAC-66AE-4189-951C-4BC6BEBCC13E@mykolab.com> Be careful in your search for RATs -- in the security world it also stands for Remote Access Trojan. :-) - ferg On October 29, 2015 3:06:23 PM EDT, Jesse McGraw wrote: >Historically there was RAT (Router Audit Tool). You'll have to do some > >googling to see where it's hosted now and whether or not it's still >being developed as I haven't looked at it in years. > > >On 10/29/2015 04:16 AM, marcel.duregards at yahoo.fr wrote: >> Hi Nanogers, >> >> Any recommendation about a software which check the live config of >> cisco/juniper devices against some templates ? >> >> The goal is to have a template about different function device, like: >> - CORE device must have this bloc and this clock >> - PE device must have at least that and that >> - CPE must have this and that >> - Distrib switch block 1 and block2 >> - etc... >> >> And the software run once every day to check which device do not >> comply with those rules and generate an alert. >> >> Thank, >> - Marcel >> -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. From hugo at slabnet.com Thu Oct 29 19:53:57 2015 From: hugo at slabnet.com (Hugo Slabbert) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 12:53:57 -0700 Subject: DDoS mitigation for ISPs In-Reply-To: <56326748.40405@tiedyenetworks.com> References: <56323E67.8010304@tiedyenetworks.com> <20151029155406.GJ8033@bamboo.slabnet.com> <56326748.40405@tiedyenetworks.com> Message-ID: <20151029195357.GK8033@bamboo.slabnet.com> >>Alternatively: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=ddos+protection >> >Actually I did the google thing first and followed up with several of >the top results, and not once did I see anyone offering a bgp tunnel >+ scrub which is why I asked. I did get some good off list responses >however, thanks all. > > >Mike- Apologies for the snarky link. A Google search on my end turned up several of the solutions I listed manually and which definitely do GRE + BGP. Apparently my past searches on the subject have coloured my current results more than I expected... -- Hugo hugo at slabnet.com: email, xmpp/jabber PGP fingerprint (B178313E): CF18 15FA 9FE4 0CD1 2319 1D77 9AB1 0FFD B178 313E (also on textsecure & redphone) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From pavel.odintsov at gmail.com Thu Oct 29 19:57:18 2015 From: pavel.odintsov at gmail.com (Pavel Odintsov) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 22:57:18 +0300 Subject: DDoS mitigation for ISPs In-Reply-To: <20151029195357.GK8033@bamboo.slabnet.com> References: <56323E67.8010304@tiedyenetworks.com> <20151029155406.GJ8033@bamboo.slabnet.com> <56326748.40405@tiedyenetworks.com> <20151029195357.GK8033@bamboo.slabnet.com> Message-ID: Hello! Could recommend folks from EU - http://qrator.net/en/ Two years without any issues. Perfect SSL and http filtration. On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 10:53 PM, Hugo Slabbert wrote: >>> Alternatively: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=ddos+protection >>> >> Actually I did the google thing first and followed up with several of the >> top results, and not once did I see anyone offering a bgp tunnel + scrub >> which is why I asked. I did get some good off list responses however, thanks >> all. >> >> >> Mike- > > > Apologies for the snarky link. A Google search on my end turned up several > of the solutions I listed manually and which definitely do GRE + BGP. > Apparently my past searches on the subject have coloured my current results > more than I expected... > > > -- > Hugo > > hugo at slabnet.com: email, xmpp/jabber > PGP fingerprint (B178313E): > CF18 15FA 9FE4 0CD1 2319 1D77 9AB1 0FFD B178 313E > > (also on textsecure & redphone) > -- Sincerely yours, Pavel Odintsov From jhellenthal at dataix.net Thu Oct 29 20:34:56 2015 From: jhellenthal at dataix.net (Jason Hellenthal) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 15:34:56 -0500 Subject: [CenturyLink][Proto UDP] Blockage of UDP Outbound from Source Port 53 Message-ID: <79F3BAD0-A0E2-4D1C-8B39-605B6F06189D@dataix.net> Could a CenturyLink network admin/engineer contact me off list. We have multiple locations receiving DNS queries over UDP where we see the connections making into our server and back out to our CenturyLink edge routers but never completes back to the connecting client at multiple locations. Connections Failing From Digital Ocean NY, Time Warner WI, Rackspace DFW TX (Hartford CT)# dig +short +novc @208.46.135.X domain.com A (Cleveland OH)# dig +short +novc @65.112.236.X domain.com A Connections from Chicago Rackspace to the above locations work as expected. CenturyLink Orlando FL to Hartford CT or Cleveland OH, CenturyLink circuits work as expected. Contact off list for domain and ip information used above. Thanks -- Jason Hellenthal JJH48-ARIN From Andrew.Bosch at elca.org Thu Oct 29 22:33:58 2015 From: Andrew.Bosch at elca.org (Andrew Bosch) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 22:33:58 +0000 Subject: configuration sanity check In-Reply-To: <5631D5F0.5030705@yahoo.fr> References: <5631D5F0.5030705@yahoo.fr> Message-ID: <7345C57ED1355540BCD12A082E317F30015FBA19BB@ELCACB37.ad.elca.org> What is the opinion about CatTools? > -----Original Message----- > From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces at nanog.org] On Behalf Of > marcel.duregards at yahoo.fr > Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2015 3:17 AM > To: nanog > Subject: configuration sanity check > > Hi Nanogers, > > Any recommendation about a software which check the live config of > cisco/juniper devices against some templates ? > > The goal is to have a template about different function device, like: > - CORE device must have this bloc and this clock > - PE device must have at least that and that > - CPE must have this and that > - Distrib switch block 1 and block2 > - etc... > > And the software run once every day to check which device do not comply with > those rules and generate an alert. > > Thank, > - Marcel From lowen at pari.edu Thu Oct 29 23:34:27 2015 From: lowen at pari.edu (Lamar Owen) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 19:34:27 -0400 Subject: NANOG list attack In-Reply-To: <562E7C51.509@merit.edu> References: <562E7C51.509@merit.edu> Message-ID: <5632AD03.2020802@pari.edu> On 10/26/2015 03:17 PM, Larry Blunk wrote: > As Job Snijders (a fellow Communications Committee member) noted > in an earlier post, we will be implementing some additional protection > mechanisms to prevent this style of incident from happening again. We > will be more aggressively moderating posts from addresses who have > not posted recently, in addition to other filtering mechanisms. > For what it's worth, while I did see all of these that made it through the list itself, the larger portion that I saw did not come through the list but were sent directly to me, and the Received header trail shows that those did not come through the nanog mailman. So I applaud what you do with the list itself, but it wouldn't have made (and won't make, in the future) much difference, since e-mails were sent out bypassing the list server. And thanks for this note. From mpetach at netflight.com Fri Oct 30 13:34:58 2015 From: mpetach at netflight.com (Matthew Petach) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 06:34:58 -0700 Subject: IGP choice In-Reply-To: References: <5629155D.3090206@yahoo.fr> <56292DC0.20601@seacom.mu> Message-ID: On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 12:35 PM, Dave Bell wrote: > On 22 October 2015 at 19:41, Mark Tinka wrote: >> The "everything must connect to Area 0" requirement of OSPF was limiting >> for me back in 2008. > > I'm unsure if this is a serious argument, but its such a poor point > today. Everything has to be connected to a level 2 in IS-IS. If you > want a flat area 0 network in OSPF, go nuts. As long as you are > sensible about what you put in your IGP, both IS-IS and OSPF scale > very well. It is rather nice that IS-IS does not require level-2 to be contiguous, unlike area 0 in OSPF. It is a valid topology in IS-IS to have different level-2 areas connected by level-1 areas, though you do have to be somewhat careful about what routes you propagate into-and-back-out-of the intervening level-1 area. But other than that, yeah, the two protocols are pretty much homologous. Matt From rcarpen at network1.net Fri Oct 30 15:23:05 2015 From: rcarpen at network1.net (Randy Carpenter) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 11:23:05 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Level 3 issues in Chicago Message-ID: <848782025.371087.1446218585943.JavaMail.zimbra@network1.net> A network that we manage is having trouble getting to several sites. The common point of failure appears to be Level 3 in Chicago. Connections work fine from our direct upstream, so it appears that Level 3 is not allowing traffic sourced from the net block in question. Can someone from Level 3 ping me off list? thanks, -Randy From mark.tinka at seacom.mu Fri Oct 30 16:43:39 2015 From: mark.tinka at seacom.mu (Mark Tinka) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 18:43:39 +0200 Subject: IGP choice In-Reply-To: References: <5629155D.3090206@yahoo.fr> <56292DC0.20601@seacom.mu> Message-ID: <56339E3B.9070103@seacom.mu> On 30/Oct/15 15:34, Matthew Petach wrote: > It is rather nice that IS-IS does not require level-2 to be > contiguous, unlike area 0 in OSPF. It is a valid topology > in IS-IS to have different level-2 areas connected by > level-1 areas, though you do have to be somewhat > careful about what routes you propagate into-and-back-out-of > the intervening level-1 area. I found Route Leaking in IS-IS to be a moot endeavour because if one wants to keep absolute routing inside the IGP, you'll want to have the core and Loopback interface addresses in the IGP, particularly if you're running an MPLS network. In such a case, the only real gain you get from multi-level IS-IS is a little quietness re: the LSP's being propagated within a particular Level-1 Area. However, things like PRC (Partial Route Calculation) and iSPF (Incremental SPF) help a lot here when you have a flat Level-2 IS-IS domain. Mark. From sean at donelan.com Fri Oct 30 17:30:04 2015 From: sean at donelan.com (Sean Donelan) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 13:30:04 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Satellites and submarine cables In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dyn Research, Doug Madory, has a good blog post looking at the physical threats affecting submarine cables; as well as covering recent historical submarine cable outages due to human action. http://research.dyn.com/2015/10/the-threat-of-telecom-sabotage/ And also a very nice infographic by Caroline Troein, Tufts University, show global submarine cable vulnerable points. https://sites.tufts.edu/gis/files/2014/11/Troein_Caroline.pdf Overall, Internet architecture has demonstrated resiliance to physical layer disruptions, but it has not proven as resliant to logical layer disruptions. On Mon, 26 Oct 2015, Sean Donelan wrote: > > Since the weekend's list problems seem to have died down. How about some > infrastructure news. > > > http://spacenews.com/from-russia-some-unofficial-assurance-about-lurking-luch-satellites-intent/ >> From Russia, Unofficial Assurance about Intent of Lurking Luch Satellite > > http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/26/world/europe/russian-presence-near-undersea-cables-concerns-us.html > Russian Ships Near Data Cables Are Too Close for U.S. Comfort > > > This seems to be a case of "I know you can see me, and I can see you." > > Its not new. Multiple countries have demostrated submarine and satellite > capabilities over the decades ... more submarines than satellites. But > generally everyone has more to lose than gain. What is different is the > increasingly public rhetoric. > > Occasional satellites or submarine cable disruptions haven't had long term > impact on the US mainland due to US connectivity options. Carriers serving > the US mainland regularly have outages and repair submarine cable and > satellite problems. But countries with less connectivity options could get > pushed around more, along the lines of "Make him an offer he can't refuse." > Some of the public rhetoric may be for allies. > From larrysheldon at cox.net Fri Oct 30 19:31:31 2015 From: larrysheldon at cox.net (Laurence F. Sheldon, Jr.) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 14:31:31 -0500 Subject: IP => Location on the planet Message-ID: <5633C593.8090600@cox.net> No follow up required or expected. FYI geo-location fans. While sitting on a toilet in a hotel in Kansas City, Missouri, US of A, I chanced to log-on to Facebook from my Kindle, and the lap-top in the on the desk in another room, Facebook alerted that I had logged on from Caracas, Venezuela. I have not checked--we might be in the same time-zone. From kuenzler at init7.net Fri Oct 30 21:38:08 2015 From: kuenzler at init7.net (Fredy Kuenzler) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 22:38:08 +0100 Subject: Microsoft Geo-IP Admin needed Message-ID: <5633E340.7040808@init7.net> Can anyone point me to a Microsoft Geo-IP admin? Their Geo-IP for live.com/outlook.com seems to be rather outdated. We get complaints for 85.195.208.0/20 and 85.195.224.0/19, pointing to Antarctic instead of Switzerland. Any commercial Geo-IP shows correct information, but Office product activation fails. Twitter thread: https://twitter.com/fiber7_ch/status/630880605971025920 Offlist response is fine. Thanks. -- Fredy Kuenzler --------------------- Fiber7. No Limits. https://www.fiber7.ch --------------------- Init7 (Switzerland) Ltd. AS13030 St.-Georgen-Strasse 70 CH-8400 Winterthur Skype: flyingpotato Phone: +41 44 315 4400 Fax: +41 44 315 4401 Twitter: @init7 / @kuenzler http://www.init7.net/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 488 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From mehmet at akcin.net Fri Oct 30 21:54:02 2015 From: mehmet at akcin.net (Mehmet Akcin) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 14:54:02 -0700 Subject: Microsoft Geo-IP Admin needed In-Reply-To: <5633E340.7040808@init7.net> References: <5633E340.7040808@init7.net> Message-ID: I will connect you offlist Mehmet On Fri, Oct 30, 2015 at 2:38 PM, Fredy Kuenzler wrote: > Can anyone point me to a Microsoft Geo-IP admin? Their Geo-IP for > live.com/outlook.com seems to be rather outdated. > > We get complaints for 85.195.208.0/20 and 85.195.224.0/19, pointing to > Antarctic instead of Switzerland. Any commercial Geo-IP shows correct > information, but Office product activation fails. > > Twitter thread: > https://twitter.com/fiber7_ch/status/630880605971025920 > > Offlist response is fine. > > Thanks. > > -- > Fredy Kuenzler > > --------------------- > Fiber7. No Limits. > https://www.fiber7.ch > --------------------- > > Init7 (Switzerland) Ltd. > AS13030 > St.-Georgen-Strasse 70 > CH-8400 Winterthur > Skype: flyingpotato > Phone: +41 44 315 4400 > Fax: +41 44 315 4401 > Twitter: @init7 / @kuenzler > http://www.init7.net/ > > From alan at clegg.com Fri Oct 30 20:14:25 2015 From: alan at clegg.com (Alan Clegg) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 16:14:25 -0400 Subject: IP => Location on the planet In-Reply-To: <5633C593.8090600@cox.net> References: <5633C593.8090600@cox.net> Message-ID: <5633CFA1.2000906@clegg.com> On 10/30/15 3:31 PM, Laurence F. Sheldon, Jr. wrote: > No follow up required or expected. > > FYI geo-location fans. > > While sitting on a toilet in a hotel in Kansas City, Missouri, US of A, > I chanced to log-on to Facebook from my Kindle, and the lap-top in the > on the desk in another room, Facebook alerted that I had logged on from > Caracas, Venezuela. I have not checked--we might be in the same time-zone. That's OK. I purchased a WAP from someone in Virginia and now I can't get the Google App on my phone to admit that I'm still at home and not in Broad Run. If anyone has any idea how to "unglue" a MAC address from an incorrect location in the guts of Google (I've done the skyhook thing http://www.skyhookwireless.com/submit-access-point), please let me know (this is an invitation for a followup). AlanC -- When I do still catch the odd glimpse, it's peripheral; mere fragments of mad-doctor chrome, confining themselves to the corner of the eye. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 561 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From sterling.daniel at gmail.com Sat Oct 31 00:08:27 2015 From: sterling.daniel at gmail.com (Daniel Sterling) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 20:08:27 -0400 Subject: IP => Location on the planet In-Reply-To: <5633CFA1.2000906@clegg.com> References: <5633C593.8090600@cox.net> <5633CFA1.2000906@clegg.com> Message-ID: Turn on all the google tracking bugs on the phone and get a GPS fix outside. http://android.stackexchange.com/questions/4715/how-may-i-submit-a-wifi-hotspot-to-androids-database-for-a-better-triangulation/4716#4716 On Fri, Oct 30, 2015 at 4:14 PM, Alan Clegg wrote: > On 10/30/15 3:31 PM, Laurence F. Sheldon, Jr. wrote: > > No follow up required or expected. > > > > FYI geo-location fans. > > > > While sitting on a toilet in a hotel in Kansas City, Missouri, US of A, > > I chanced to log-on to Facebook from my Kindle, and the lap-top in the > > on the desk in another room, Facebook alerted that I had logged on from > > Caracas, Venezuela. I have not checked--we might be in the same > time-zone. > > That's OK. I purchased a WAP from someone in Virginia and now I can't > get the Google App on my phone to admit that I'm still at home and not > in Broad Run. > > If anyone has any idea how to "unglue" a MAC address from an incorrect > location in the guts of Google (I've done the skyhook thing > http://www.skyhookwireless.com/submit-access-point), please let me know > (this is an invitation for a followup). > > AlanC > -- > When I do still catch the odd glimpse, it's peripheral; mere fragments > of mad-doctor chrome, confining themselves to the corner of the eye. > > From john.steve.nash at gmail.com Sat Oct 31 00:51:34 2015 From: john.steve.nash at gmail.com (John Steve Nash) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 22:51:34 -0200 Subject: CIDR Utilization Message-ID: Hi, I'm looking for any tool or a way I could specify a CIDR and the prefixes that are being used within this CIDR and the tool show me all free supernets. Example: 192.168.0.0/24 - CIDR Used subnet's: 192.168.0.1/32 192.168.0.8/27 192.168.0.64/26 192.168.0.68/32 192.168.0.96/29 Tool Result => Free Subnet's: 192.168.0.2/31 192.168.0.4/30 192.168.0.32/27 192.168.0.128/25 Regards, John From joelja at bogus.com Sat Oct 31 01:13:13 2015 From: joelja at bogus.com (joel jaeggli) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2015 10:13:13 +0900 Subject: CIDR Utilization In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <563415A9.4050008@bogus.com> most reasonable ipam tools will track or express unallocated vs allocated space. netdot has a lovely address-space container/block view for managing free vs allocated space joel On 10/31/15 9:51 AM, John Steve Nash wrote: > Hi, > > I'm looking for any tool or a way I could specify a CIDR and the prefixes > that are being used within this CIDR and the tool show me all free > supernets. > > Example: > > 192.168.0.0/24 - CIDR > > Used subnet's: > > 192.168.0.1/32 > 192.168.0.8/27 > 192.168.0.64/26 > 192.168.0.68/32 > 192.168.0.96/29 > > Tool Result => Free Subnet's: > > 192.168.0.2/31 > 192.168.0.4/30 > 192.168.0.32/27 > 192.168.0.128/25 > > Regards, > > John > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 229 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From theodore at ciscodude.net Sat Oct 31 02:50:54 2015 From: theodore at ciscodude.net (Theodore Baschak) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 21:50:54 -0500 Subject: CIDR Utilization In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > On Oct 30, 2015, at 7:51 PM, John Steve Nash wrote: > > Hi, > > I'm looking for any tool or a way I could specify a CIDR and the prefixes > that are being used within this CIDR and the tool show me all free > supernets. > I've used subnetsmngr for this in the past. Proper usage of it thru the UI forces you to fully allocate (as compared to sparse allocating) your subnets, basically the same way subetting is taught in base level networking certifications. This makes finding the un-used subnets very easy. http://sourceforge.net/p/subnetsmngr/wiki/Home/ NIPAP allows you to do the same as well, but will let subnets be sparse allocated, so you won't necessarily have pre-created them waiting to be used later on. http://spritelink.github.io/NIPAP/ NIPAP also has a nice CLI interface. Both are also open source, full v4/v6. Theo From frnkblk at iname.com Sat Oct 31 14:57:57 2015 From: frnkblk at iname.com (frnkblk at iname.com) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2015 09:57:57 -0500 Subject: Two IPv6 websites down Message-ID: <002501d113ec$88b332f0$9a1998d0$@iname.com> My regular BT and CTL link contacts have not responded, but perhaps there's another engineer on the list that can investigate. www.bt.com hasn't had an AAAA since Friday, October 30 at 4:36 am (U.S. Central). OpenDNS carried it for a while longer yesterday, but when I checked this morning it was gone. www.centurylink.com (and www.qwest.com) have had HTTPv6 access down since Friday, October 30 at 1:21 am (U.S. Central). I suspect that after maintenance something wasn't fixed up or restored. In addition, the following sites, which had working HTTPv6 at one time, remain down: enterprise.ca cs.co mydeviceinfo.comcast.net www.dnssec.comcast.net wireless.att.com www.att.net (Akamai hosted) www.charter.com www.twtelecom.com Regards, Frank root at nagios:/home/fbulk# wget -6 www.centurylink.com --2015-10-31 09:53:13-- http://www.centurylink.com/ Resolving www.centurylink.com... 2001:428:b21:1::20 Connecting to www.centurylink.com|2001:428:b21:1::20|:80... failed: Connection timed out. Retrying. --2015-10-31 09:53:35-- (try: 2) http://www.centurylink.com/ Connecting to www.centurylink.com|2001:428:b21:1::20|:80... failed: Connection timed out. Retrying. --2015-10-31 09:53:58-- (try: 3) http://www.centurylink.com/ Connecting to www.centurylink.com|2001:428:b21:1::20|:80... failed: Connection timed out. Retrying. --2015-10-31 09:54:22-- (try: 4) http://www.centurylink.com/ Connecting to www.centurylink.com|2001:428:b21:1::20|:80... failed: Connection timed out. Retrying. --2015-10-31 09:54:47-- (try: 5) http://www.centurylink.com/ Connecting to www.centurylink.com|2001:428:b21:1::20|:80... failed: Connection timed out. Retrying. --2015-10-31 09:55:13-- (try: 6) http://www.centurylink.com/ Connecting to www.centurylink.com|2001:428:b21:1::20|:80... ^C root at nagios:/home/fbulk# From jmillay at vermontel.com Sat Oct 31 19:51:10 2015 From: jmillay at vermontel.com (Jeremiah Millay) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2015 19:51:10 +0000 Subject: CIDR Utilization In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1BCAAB14D63EE94BB4D367020193DDB6AE4FC92C@VTELMAIL.vermonttel.com> John, Without going through the hassle of installing a full-blown IPAM solution you could use Python's netaddr library to accomplish what you are asking: >>> from netaddr import * >>> cidr = IPSet(['192.168.0.0/24']) >>> used = IPSet(['192.168.0.1','192.168.0.8/29','192.168.0.64/26']) >>> cidr ^ used IPSet(['192.168.0.0/32', '192.168.0.2/31', '192.168.0.4/30', '192.168.0.16/28', '192.168.0.32/27', '192.168.0.128/25']) Jeremiah Millay Senior Network Engineer Vermont Telephone Co., Inc. 354 River Street Springfield, VT 05156 From inetjunkmail at gmail.com Sat Oct 31 14:29:03 2015 From: inetjunkmail at gmail.com (inetjunkmail) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2015 10:29:03 -0400 Subject: CIDR Utilization In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Attached is a perl script I wrote for a coworker that you can tweak as you'd like. It's designed to log into a router and dump the route table(s) and find used/unused subnets in a given supernet. Available routes are green and used routes are red. Yellow routes are routes where we have route and a more specific route so the first route is probably an aggregate and there _may_ be open space available. On Fri, Oct 30, 2015 at 8:51 PM, John Steve Nash wrote: > Hi, > > I'm looking for any tool or a way I could specify a CIDR and the prefixes > that are being used within this CIDR and the tool show me all free > supernets. > > Example: > > 192.168.0.0/24 - CIDR > > Used subnet's: > > 192.168.0.1/32 > 192.168.0.8/27 > 192.168.0.64/26 > 192.168.0.68/32 > 192.168.0.96/29 > > Tool Result => Free Subnet's: > > 192.168.0.2/31 > 192.168.0.4/30 > 192.168.0.32/27 > 192.168.0.128/25 > > Regards, > > John > From baldur.norddahl at gmail.com Sat Oct 31 23:01:52 2015 From: baldur.norddahl at gmail.com (Baldur Norddahl) Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2015 00:01:52 +0100 Subject: CIDR Utilization In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 31 October 2015 at 01:51, John Steve Nash wrote: > I'm looking for any tool or a way I could specify a CIDR and the prefixes > that are being used within this CIDR and the tool show me all free > supernets. > For the weekend exercise I wrote a small script that does this. You can find it at http://pastebin.com/i0D54Lsq Usage: cat input.txt | ./subnet.sh The input.txt file contains your input such as: Baldurs-MBP-2:~ baldur$ cat /tmp/x add 192.168.0.0/24 remove 192.168.0.1/32 remove 192.168.0.8/27 remove 192.168.0.64/26 remove 192.168.0.68/32 remove 192.168.0.96/29 Baldurs-MBP-2:~ baldur$ cat /tmp/x | ./subnet.sh 192.168.0.32/27 192.168.0.128/25 Note this was not your expected output, but that is because your example is defective. To get your expected output we can modify the input such as: Baldurs-MBP-2:~ baldur$ cat /tmp/x add 192.168.0.0/24 remove 192.168.0.0/31 remove 192.168.0.3/32 remove 192.168.0.8/29 remove 192.168.0.16/28 remove 192.168.0.64/26 remove 192.168.0.68/32 remove 192.168.0.96/29 Baldurs-MBP-2:~ baldur$ cat /tmp/x | ./subnet.sh 192.168.0.2/32 192.168.0.4/30 192.168.0.32/27 192.168.0.128/25 You can have multiple add lines and add/remove lines in any order. Regards, Baldur