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Global Blackhole Service

Of course, whomever hosts such a service becomes an attractive DoS target themselves if it were ever to gain real traction in the field.  There is also the "reverse-DoS" issue of an innocent party getting into the feed if anyone can peer with it.

- S

-----Original Message-----
From: Nuno Vieira - nfsi telecom <nuno.vieira at nfsi.pt>
Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 07:13
To: Jens Ott - PlusServer AG <j.ott at plusserver.de>
Cc: nanog <nanog at nanog.org>
Subject: Re: Global Blackhole Service

Hi Jens,

I think we are in the same boat.

We suffered the same problem often, on a lower magnitude, but if a project like this exists those DDoS could even be almost near zero.

This is somewhat similar to what Spamcop, and other folks do with SPAM today, but applied on a diferent scope, say, BGP Blackhole.

This service can span wide after just peers, opening the opportunity to edge-to-edge DDoS mitigation.

Say, a network in .pt or .de is beign attacked at large, and dst operators inject the dst attacked source on the blackhole bgp feed...   say that 100+ other ops around the world use a cen?rio like this... this might be very useful.
concers: the "autohority" or the "responsible" for maintaining this project, must assure that OP A or OP B can *only* annouce chunks that below to him, avoiding any case of hijack.

We would be interested in participating in something like this.


> My questions to all of you:
> - - What do you think about such service?

It will be great. We are available to help.

> - - Would you/your ASN participate in such a service?


> - - Do you see some kind of usefull feature in such a service?

Yes, a few thoughts above, some more might come up.

> - - Do you have any comments?

For starters, a few above.

Nuno Vieira
nfsi telecom, lda.

nuno.vieira at nfsi.pt
Tel. (+351) 21 949 2300 - Fax (+351) 21 949 2301

----- "Jens Ott - PlusServer AG" <j.ott at plusserver.de> wrote:

> Hash: SHA1
> Hi,
> in the last 24 hours we received two denial of service attacks with
> something
> like 6-8GBit volume. It did not harm us too much, but e.g. one of our
> upstreams got his Amsix-Port exploded.
> With our upstreams we have remote-blackhole sessions running where we
> announce
> /32 prefixes to blackhole at their edge, but this does not work with
> our
> peers. Also our Decix-Port received something like 2Gbit extra-traffic
> during
> this DoS.
> I can imagine, that for some peers, especially for the once having
> only a thin
> fiber (e.g. 1GBit) to Decix, it's not to funny having it flooded with
> a DoS
> and that they might be interested in dropping such traffic at their
> edge.
> Well I could discuss with my peers (at least the once who might get in
> trouble
> with such issue) to do some individual config for some
> blackhole-announcement,
> but most probably I'm not the only one receiving DoS and who would be
> interested in such setup.
> Therefore I had the following idea: Why not taking one of my old
> routers and
> set it up as blackhole-service. Then everyone who is interested could
> set up a
> session to there and
> 1.) announce /32 (/128) routes out of his prefixes to blackhole them
> 2.) receive all the /32 (/128) announcements from the other peers with
> the IPs
> they want to have blackholed and rollout the blackhole to their
> network.
> My questions to all of you:
> - - What do you think about such service?
> - - Would you/your ASN participate in such a service?
> - - Do you see some kind of usefull feature in such a service?
> - - Do you have any comments?
> Thank you for telling me your opinions and best regards
> - --
> ===================================================================
> Jens Ott
> Leiter Network Management
> Tel: +49 22 33 - 612 - 3501
> Fax: +49 22 33 - 612 - 53501
> E-Mail: j.ott at plusserver.de
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