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[ih] Some Questions over IPv4 Ownership

I want to chime in and suggest that a mobile phone number is much more like
a name than an address, primarily because an IP address is universally
explicit.  Telephone numbers are more like relative distinguished names,
especially if you consider their use internationally (dialing country codes,
etc).  The analogy of phone numbers was used quite often during both the
creation of DNS and the IFIP 6.5 discussions.

On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 5:22 PM, jfh <jack at 3kitty.org> wrote:

> This is a great discussion ... but I think it's way too logical and
> engineering-based.  IMHO, legal structures are rarely logical to us
> engineers.  But legal mechanisms will be applied to Internet
> technologies and infrastructure, just like they were applied in
> telephone, railroads, radio, shipping, etc. in the past.
> So, for example, in legal property worlds there is a concept of
> "prescriptive rights".  Basically if you use someone else's property for
> long enough without their permission or objection, you acquire the
> ongoing right to use that property.  I.e., for practical and legal
> purposes you own it, or at least own a right to use it.
> If I use a particular range of IP addresses long enough, without the
> permission of whoever thinks they own it, do I now own those
> addresses...?  It's clear to me what the engineering answer is, but I
> have no idea what a court might decide.  Hence the question of ownership
> - legal rights - is very relevant.
> In fact, I wonder if all the laws currently governing portability of
> telephone numbers also apply in some way to IP addresses, if someone
> decides to litigate?  I know they're very different numbers from an
> engineering perspective, but from a judge's bench...?
> This is the kind of question that we can't answer by logical engineering
> arguments...
> /Jack
> On Tue, 2010-10-12 at 11:28 -0400, Noel Chiappa wrote:
> > > From: Dave CROCKER <dhc2 at dcrocker.net>
> >
> >     > On 10/11/2010 5:14 PM, John Day wrote:
> >
> >     >> Do you own the address where your house is?  When you move do you
> take it with
> >     >> you? Do you get your mail at the address where you were born?
> >
> >     > You mean like portable phone numbers, especially ones that are
> easier
> >     > to remember?
> >
> > Neither one of those analogies is entirely applicable. One phrase for
> > everyone here: 'separation of location and identity'.
> >
> > However, the former analogy is more applicable to IPvN addresses than the
> > latter. For one, portable phone numbers are (now) the equivalent of DNS
> > names. I.e. to actually use them for communication, they _have_ to go
> through
> > a binding layer, the output of which is the number's current, actual
> > location. (The fact that the _syntax_ of the output of that mapping looks
> > like the input, i.e. phone numbers, doesn't change the fact that the
> > _semantics_ of the output - i.e. the properties of that output number -
> are
> > different from the input.)
> >
> >       Noel

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