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Amazing NSA excuse

Dnia niedziela, 15 czerwca 2014 18:51:36 Juan pisze:
> On Sun, 15 Jun 2014 22:22:01 +0200
> rysiek <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Dnia niedziela, 15 czerwca 2014 16:47:01 Juan pisze:
> > > On Sat, 14 Jun 2014 21:42:16 -0400
> > > 
> > > grarpamp <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > > Politically?
> > > > 
> > > > I've been told that voting, letter writing, calling, visiting,
> > > > funding, running for office [1], and all manner of other civic and
> > > > civil participation works, across all areas public and private.
> > > 	
> > > 	If thats what youve been told, then  you need to stop
> > > 	listening to people who don´t know the ABC of political
> > > 
> > > theory
> > 
> > From the perspective of a person deeply involved in the anti-ACTA
> > process in the EU[1][2], and having come to conclusions that are
> > compatible with what grarpamp "has been told", I would like to thank
> > you for enlightening us so insightfully and verbosely. The power of
> > your arguments combined with the clarity of your delivery are truly
> > magnificent.
> 	Too bad I simply stated a fact.

Well, actually, you haven't really stated anything. You just said "grarpamp, 
you're wrong", without saying anything about in what manner he supposedly is 
wrong, and why you think he is wrong.

> 	Your sarcasm is out of place and the joke is on you.
> 	I suggest that you, too, get to the core of political
> 	theory...and practice

See, the problem is not that we disagree, the problem is that so far you 
haven't really said anything. grarpamp stipulated that "X" works, or so he has 
heard, you said "nope" and neither of you offered any support.

I can find some support for grarpamp's stipulation in my own practice and 
history, and while I appreciate your smirk cynicism, saying "read political 
theory" is simply not enough of an argument.

Not to mention, neither I nor grarpamp said anything on what is the exact 
mechanism of how civil participation works. For instance, I would be the first 
to admit that it's not a silver bullet and I'm far from the naïve, idealistic 
view of "politicians really listen to what we write"; rather, usually, it's a 
game of interests, and sometimes -- like during the ACTA crisis in EU -- 
public involvement can be just the straw that's needed to change something.

> > No, please, no need for any more concrete information, I think we can
> > all agree that at this point it would be hard to not be convinced to
> > what you so skilfully put forward.
> 	bla bla bla - sign some useless petition to your masters, play
> 	the politicians´ game. Fancy that you are an oh so great
> 	activist.

And your solution instead is what exactly? "Nah, sit on yer arse, nothing's 
gonna change"? That sounds familiar:

I am really curious as to what exactly is your reason to even write such e-
mails? If you know of a better solution, why not share? If there is no 
solution you can see, at all, why not get on with your life of bliss and not-
giving-a-fsck? Surely, if civil participation can't do shit, your e-mail to 
this list can do even less!

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