Re: Oh yeah, speaking of Aqua Regia !!! Off Topic

From: davidhatton ^lt;[email protected]>
Date: 10/10/05-03:56:39 AM Z
Message-id: <>

With all due respect, and I really do mean that, I can't see the logic
in posting a rebuke in public which tells all to reply off list. Surely
your ends would be better served if you had replied to Judy off list..


David H wrote:
> OK, Judy, here is a warning!
> THE GOLDEN FLEAS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> On a more serious note. Judy, I wouldn't even pretend to know what
> occurred between you and Dick Sullivan and I am not at all writing in
> his defense—and I am not interested in knowing—that is between you and
> Dick. I have met both you and Dick in person and enjoyed my visit with
> each of you. You have made a lot of good contributions to this list and
> I would hope that you would keep doing so. I don't think that your post
> below is one of your better contributions—but that's just my opinion and
> I am not really interested in a lengthy exchange arguing the point with
> you on this list. I would speculate that this kind of post either
> prevents people from contributing to the list or causes them
> unsubscribe. Not being a Listmeister myself (and God protect those
> brave souls that are) feel free to delete this post, which I have noted
> as being "Off Topic." I would prefer anyone who would like to comment
> regarding this post (mine) do so to me directly off list rather than
> continue to add to the "list noise."
> Best Wishes,
> Mark Nelson
> Purchase the eBook & PDN System for Your Own Custom Digital Negative
> Workflow @
> Precision Digital Negatives <>
> PDN's Own 31-Step Tablet Now Available—produced by Stouffer Industries
> Coming Soon—Curve Calculator II will let you choose your toes!
> <>
> In a message dated 10/9/05 2:09:52 PM, writes:
>> On Sat, 8 Oct 2005, davidhatton wrote:
>> > Quoting Dennis Fielding from his article in PF #4
>> >
>> > "Normally Aqua Regia is made from 3 parts HCL (Hydrochloric Acid)
>> > to 1 part HNO3 (Nitric Acid). I had only 50% solution HCL however so
>> I opted
>> > for a 6 to 1 Aqua Regia solution, ie 60 ml HCL to 10 ml HNO3........"
>> >
>> > Apparently home-made Aqua Regia caused quite a stink (pardon the
>> pun) on this
>> > board some years ago.
>> Actually, I've been recalling that, and am simply ASTOUNDED that
>> Richard-the-lion-hearted Sullivan has not dashed in to warn about the
>> perils of making Aqua Regia at home, as he did starting June 18, 1999 on
>> the alt-photo list, and for an adamant ETERNITY thereafter.
>> I will suggest a "theory" about the change in heart in a moment, but first
>> a few quotes. The proximate cause was Liam's article about making your own
>> gold chloride in P-F #3. Sullivan began with a full bore assault, subject
>> line -- "Home made gold chloride -- dumb dumb dumb" about the dangers of--
>> are you ready?... AQUA REGIA as "beyond the pale...totally
>> irresponsible..." No matter the MANY warnings in the article, folks might
>> "misinterpret 'good ventilation' to mean an open window in the kitchen."
>> And then proceeded, in typical sleight of mouth, to accuse LIAM of doing
>> this in *his* kitchen, inventing extras to suit along the way for YEARS,
>> about aqua regia as "deadly as cyanide gas", could cause "serious lung
>> damage" "dead bodies" and "a runaway reaction... room filling up with
>> brown deadly fumes...running down the countertop and cabinet fronts and
>> eating through the linoleum [even] following the plumbing pipes into the
>> apartment below..."
>> PLUS ... "If it were my journal I would send an immediate letter warning
>> subscribers of the danger... a dangerous invitation to get someone
>> seriously hurt or maimed." Not just a *legal* issue (I could get sued,
>> also baloney -- even if the information were FALSE I couldn't get sued, or
>> think of the fun we'd have with Intelligent Design -- though that's not
>> this e-mail)... but a "MORAL issue" !!
>> Sullivan said he'd "help out ... by publishing a warning about the article
>> on [his] web site." By June 22 he called it "a matter of ethics, plain
>> old ethics. I'm only wanting to protect someone from walking into harm's
>> way. [A] warning should be sent to subscribers [but] I don't have the
>> subscriber list available." [Editor's Post Script: "Duh"!]
>> No insertion of fact soothed this hypo-zeal for public safety...THEN !
>> Not Liam's citation of actual chemists' characterizations of aqua regia,
>> not his personal experience, not the actual warnings in the actual REAL
>> article, not even examples of equally or more dangerous substances listed
>> WITHOUT warnings in such places as, if you could believe, the Bostick &
>> Sullivan catalog (!!!) could stay this courier in his zeal.
>> So what happened NOW ? Not a single warning -- is the fellow asleep at
>> the switch? OK, here's a theory: When, about June 30, 1998, I declined
>> (offlist) to let Sullivan take subscriptions for the brand new
>> Post-Factory on his website (despite his weeks of sweet-talking
>> salesmanship), which may have suggested it wouldn't be a Bostick &
>> Sullivan subsidiary after all, he began the very next day by various
>> extreme means (as a review of the archive of the time should show if it
>> hasn't been excised to protect the guilty) to drive me off the list and
>> discredit Post-Factory, plus, if you could believe myself, as continued
>> onlist and off when an opportunity could be found or invented (STILL
>> filtering back from "the field"). By Issue #3 it was probably also clear
>> that P-F's "Sources & Services" listed many sources at half B&S price.
>> But the "Gold Flap" episode was so full of info, real & false, I felt it
>> should be preserved for posterity, which I did in P-F #4, in excerpts
>> titled "The Gold Flap, quote, Quote, QUOTE!"along with equally interesting
>> related matter such as Dallas Simpson's poetic "Beauty from Poison" and
>> Sandy King's "Mystery and Science of Pyro" (including, I believe, the
>> first appearance in print of Hydrocat, or at least the first under that
>> name, since I suggested it), plus Cor Breukel and Dennis Fielding on their
>> practically boring successes making their own gold chloride with Aqua
>> Regia, plus history, science, and Dave Barry, American genius.
>> But did I mention that Sullivan sold gold chloride at B&S -- actually I
>> don't remember that for SURE, but $30 a gram comes to mind. When Janet
>> Neuhauser did gold toning in Issue #7, she was getting it from Englehard
>> about 8 grams for $8/gram (tho "$30 shipping charge will make me look
>> elsewhere next time").
>> Which, interesting as all this is in itself, shows how strange it is that
>> current talk of Aqua Regia draws NOT ONE WARNING !!! However, because I
>> am such a public spirited and ETHICAL person, I'm going to give the
>> warnings from the original article (as soon as I've given my
>> post-operative hand -- the doctors acted like it was a head transplant --
>> maybe it was!) a rest.
>> cheers,
>> Judy
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.9/117 - Release Date: 10/3/2005
Received on Mon Oct 10 03:57:38 2005

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.8 : 11/07/05-09:46:18 AM Z CST