Hi David - Lens Details Was large format...etc

From: Wayne D ^lt;wdewitt@snip.net>
Date: 11/26/05-12:10:53 PM Z
Message-id: <001901c5f2b4$be2bbe20$3750ccd1@oemcomputer>


Essentially everything Richard told you is correct. The very last Dagors
that Kern assembled were "Gold Dots" and did have a change in formula (or at
least coating and baffles that reduced coverage) towards the end (and were
f/8 I believe). I have an early Kern-assembled Gold Dot with a 2M serial#,
that is still the original f6.8 and single-coated. The 12in. will fetch
between $500-$800 on Ebay, I've seen them go for >$1000, but suspect that it
was shill bidding and that the transactions never went through, although you
have experience on Ebay so you know that it gets out of hand sometimes
(anyone want a virgin 330S? - don't ask what I paid). I got my 210 GD in
Compur for $465. The 6-1/2 wide-angle is a low enough serial # that I
suspect it isn't coated (my earliest coated lens is a 78K serial #. If it is
uncoated it will fetch less but a guess would be $400-$600. The Artar is one
of the most common (behind the ubiquitous 8.25), and it's a real guess as to
what you can get. Knowing the type of shutter (has to be a compound) and
what's wrong would help. The problem being that if the shutter isn't
repairable it may not be a "drop-in" in another shutter, back then shutter
threads weren't standardized. Keep it with the shutter regardless so that
cell spacing will be known. Check history on Ebay for more accurate prices,
mine are only guesses since I've banned myself from Ebay for the time-being
(poverty). The Wisner should bring 1/2 - 2/3 what you paid for it. In your
favor is Ron Wisner's delivery history (limited availability)


Apologies for dragging this thread along, but even though I've eliminated my
Email filter David still can't get through to me (but every porn site, pill
pusher, Nigerian Princess and lawyer now can). I've sent him an alternate
Email address.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Knoppow" <dickburk@ix.netcom.com>
To: <alt-photo-process-l@sask.usask.ca>
Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2005 4:43 AM
Subject: Re: Lens Details Was large format...etc

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "davidhatton" <davidhatton@superonline.com>
> To: <alt-photo-process-l@sask.usask.ca>
> Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2005 1:12 AM
> Subject: Lens Details Was large format...etc
> > Wayne,
> >
> > I got an email from SNIP telling me that things were all
> > ok now but when I tried again I got bounced. C'est la viz.
> >
> > Thanks for the advice. I got the lenses out today so here
> > are the
> > details on the lens rim/shutter
> >
> > 1: C.P. Goerz AM. OPT. CO. then a gold dot (looks like a
> > brass insert -
> > not paint anyway) , DAGOR 12 in F: 6.8 No. 813768. There
> > is also a
> > narrow gold band around the front of the barrel. Rear
> > element : 813768
> > Shutter Ilex No 4 Universal. F6.8 to 64, speeds
> > 1,2,5,10,25,50,100,B,T.
> > Glass is greeeat and shutter works fine.
> >
> > 2.C.P. Goerz AM. OPT. CO.,W.A. DAGOR 6 1/2 in F:8 No.
> > 777485.Rear
> > element : 777485. Shutter Ilex Acme synchro No.3. Glass
> > greeeat shutter
> > works fine.
> >
> > 3.C.P. Goerz AM. OPT. CO. APOCHROMAT (then a red dot)
> > ARTAR 19 in. F.11
> > NO. 795101. Rear Element 795101. Again great glass.
> > Shutter is busted so call it in barrel.
> >
> > Camera is beautiful and little used, all black with brass
> > fittings, ground glass protector in f64 backpack. I also
> > have 12 double film holders. All with little use. All
> > purchased by me personally in the USA when I lived in CT.
> >
> > Now I am in Turkey and conditions are a little different
> > to Westport :) hence the sale.
> >
> > Let me know what you think.
> >
> > Much obliged, and apologies to all for this blatant
> > commercial intrusion.
> > Happy holidays
> >
> > David H
> >
> Well, you are in Turkey and I have turkey in me.
> The Gold Dot Dagor was the last of the line. I don't know
> if the design was changed from the original Series III
> Dagors but manufacturing precision was improved. The Gold
> Dot has an excellent reputation. The serial number is well
> beyond my list which does not go beyond 791,500, about 1955.
> The Gold Dot Dagor shows up in catalogues around the mid
> 1970s and a version of it was made by Kern after Schneider
> bought out Goerz American Optical in the late 1970s. The
> Dagor has maximum coverage of around 87 degrees when stopped
> down to f/45. A single element can be used alone, preferably
> behind the stop, with a focal length of about 1.8 times the
> combined focal length and about f/13. Because the single
> cells are not corrected for coma they must be stopped down
> to at least f/36, coverage is around 45 degrees.
> There was an earlier version called the Golden Dagor,
> identifiable by the polished brass front cell. AFAIK, this
> was just a sales gimmick for the standard Dagor. They are
> still very good lenses but should not be confused with the
> Gold Dot series. Gold Dot Dagors are coated.
> The f/8 Wide Angle Dagor was made only by Goerz in the
> United States. The German version made by Goerz in Berlin
> and after the 1926 merger by Zeiss was f/9. Performance of
> the two is probably not much different. By making the
> maximum aperture smaller the coverage can be extended to 100
> degrees at f/45. 77,845 dates from the early 1950's. These
> are probably not coated, Goerz American was one of the last
> lens makers to routinely coat lenses.
> The Red Dot Apochromatic Artar was also the last of the
> series except for those built by Schneider after buying
> Goerz. The Apochromatic Artar was the most widely used
> process lens for photoengraving. The Red Dot series is
> coated and the element spacing is adjusted for various
> conjugates depending on the mounting, focal length, and
> what was ordered. Older Apo Artars are all completely
> symmetrical and optimum at 1:1, the Red Dots were optimised
> for anywhere from 1:1 to around 1:10. Those with long
> congugates were usually shutter mounted.
> Actually the Apo Artar has corrections which are pretty
> stable with changes in object distance. The main aberration
> which is picked up is coma and that can be eliminated at
> infinity focus by stopping down a little. Apo Artars of any
> age are extrememly sharp. Those made before the Red Dot
> series are uncoated and have a little flare due to the 8
> glass-air surfaces. When used for their original purpose of
> half-tone photo-engraving the flare makes no difference
> since it can be compensated for by slight changes in
> exposure. I have a very old (1920's) Apo Artar which does
> not seem excessively flary. 19 inches is the most common
> focal length for process lenses.
> The main limitation of the Apochromatic Artar is its
> limited coverage, around 45 degrees in the catalogues
> although it will just about cover an image circle of
> diameter equal to its focal length. This is typical of the
> generic type known as a Dialyte. The serial number is
> probably around 1960. The first of the Red Dots came out in
> 1953 but the serial number I have for it is not correct
> because I have one with a slightly lower Snr.
> What kind of shutter is it in and what exactly is broken?
> Steve Grimes used to be a magician with Ilex shutters but
> I don't know if the people who run his shop now will
> undertake the more difficult jobs he gloried in.
> http://www.skgrimes.com
> If this was meant to be a private e-mail you hit the wrong
> button:-)
> ---
> Richard Knoppow
> Los Angeles, CA, USA
> dickburk@ix.netcom.com
Received on Sat Nov 26 12:14:34 2005

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