Re: plea to chemists + "safety" rant

From: Judy Seigel ^lt;>
Date: 11/11/05-02:27:20 PM Z
Message-id: <>

On Thu, 10 Nov 2005, Christina Z. Anderson wrote:

> What do you chemists think?? Jon Bailey, Judy Siegel, etc., you've taught
> this process before; what do you know?

I never taught it, but did it myself, tho it's been so long, I don't
have details by heart. (If you want them, however, I know where they

BUT, the mordancage I did was NOT like the "mordancage" I understand you
do (which we've hashed over, or at least Jon & I have on the list
already). You, I gather, loosen a film and plaster it back on?

Mine was as I recall the "Mariage" process, from, I think Clerc among
others, first heard of from Pierre Cordier... maybe even Sudre (I could
probably look that up too, if I don't get an asbestos attack in the

But the reason I go into this is that I found, after a bit of dinking
around, that I got *exactly* the same results with plain old potassium
sulfate, which they sell in nurseries for gardening, $6 per pound (tho
sometimes called blue vitriol) -- and 3% hydrogen peroxide, sold in
drugstores for 69 cents a pint -- that I got with the expensive calcium
chloride and bomb grade hydrogen peroxide (in fact I'm pretty sure I have
a 10% hydrogen peroxide still somewhere unopened in the darkroom in case I
need to make a bomb).

However, I seem to recall that you -- or Jon -- didn't find this

There were other ingredients -- probably an acid to make a bleach. This
was, by the way, also in either Photographic Facts & Formulas as "Etch
Bleach" or similar formulary. I used it for a real reversal -- bleaching
out the developed silver and then developing the unexposed halides to
black silver. It worked very well for my process of solarizing, with a
very nice "Mackie Line", among other points.

It's also nice for hand coloring since it removes some of the gelatin base
of the factory paper & the underlying paper takes all kinds of art
supplies. It's not *your* "mordancage," but might be worth trying since no
calcium chloride involved..

As for your Risk Management Team... or whatever the name. Pardon me if I
figure they're eating food with a list of chemicals on the label longer
than your workbook, stepping outside to smoke their cigarettes in the cold
air, which I understand damages the lungs more than in room temp air,
driving to work in gas guzzling SUVs, that also probably leak carbon
monoxide into the back seat where their kids are sitting, burning god
knows what in their furnaces, frying their brains and damaging their
chromosomes with dope and their liver with alcohol, fertilizing their
melanomas by burning themselves to a crisp during the 3 days of summer sun
in your latitude, putting their kids in "flame resistant" pjs made with
chemicals from hell, washing themselves with anti-bacterial soap to
encourage all the little resistant strains while insisting their doctors
give them antibiotics for the flu - and that's just what comes to mind
right off.

I won't go into the bulding practices of town and gown, the water table,
the wells, the land use, the materials and possibly above all the
"planning" that makes every resident drive 10 miles for a quart of
(irradiated) and 4% fat milk, or a pack of cigarettes, while their tires
send asbestos & chemicalized rubber into the air.

With this "risk" control, they can be holier than the pope by forbidding 2
ccs of acetic acid -- for someone ELSE. Which leads me to observe that in
my neighborhood you can buy salad vinegar by acetic acid percent. I like a
mild vinegar at 5%, so I buy 10% & cut half with water -- so much cheaper.
I think it comes up to 20 or 25 % strength. You're up there in cheese
country, no? Get some blue cheese and make salad.


> The students are very unhappy at this turn of events, as you can imagine. But
> I would not want to teach something that has this kind of danger to students,
> either. So I really need to know the bottom line here...and it is frustrating
> that there is conflicting information between chemists and Safety and Risk
> Management. That said, SRM is the final word, so I would have to convince
> them they are wrong.
> I just don't have any close chemist friends short of this list :)
> Thanks in advance,>
Received on Fri Nov 11 14:27:30 2005

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