RE: Vandyke Brown Contrast Control - Question for Liam and Sandy

From: Liam Lawless ^lt;>
Date: 03/15/05-09:03:58 PM Z
Message-id: <>


I think Carmen's article says about as much as I know, but if you try and do
exactly what the article says, you'll find that 6 g ferric citrate WILL NOT
dissolve in 33 ml water; what I suggest is to leave it out of part A and add
it when parts A, B and C have been mixed together - that way it's 6 g in 99
ml. Ferric citrate dissolves very slowly and with 6 g of it in 100 ml VDB
it will probably take several days to go fully into solution. Shaking the
bottle from time to time helps, but you'll also find that it makes very
little difference if you use it, say, a couple of hours after making. (By
the time all the f.c. has dissolved, you may find that the VDB solution is
starting to form a coarse whitish precipitate. VDB always does this after a
time and it's nothing to worry about, but filter it off if it bothers you.)

Sandy is doing essentially the same thing, but with a bit more precision
than me, and Phillippe found a way round the insolubility problem (not that
it matters in my opinion, unless you're very impatient). One reason Sandy
apparently had such trouble is that he's using almost 40% more f.c. than me.
But what might make more sense, if your negatives are reasonably consistent,
is to make a fixed-contrast VDB solution to suit your negs; this solution
would contain less f.c. than the stock solutions that Sandy and I used.
When I was testing f.c. in VDB, all I did was reduce the amount of f.a.c. in
the traditional VDB formula, adding exactly the same amount of f.c., and
that is all my formula is: instead of the usual 9 g of f.a.c., I have 3 g
f.a.c. and 6 g f.c. Depending on your negs, you may find that a solution
with 6 g f.a.c. and 3 g f.c. works for you on its own. In any case, if you
find a mix (of trad. VDB with control formula, either mine or Sandy's) that
gives you what you want, you should be able to work backwards to a formula
for a single solution with your desired contrast.

Good luck. Maybe let us know how you get on.


-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Williams []
Sent: 16 March 2005 02:04
Subject: Vandyke Brown Contrast Control - Question for Liam and Sandy

In Post-Factory #8 two formulas were given for variations on part A of
the VDB classic formula. Liam Lawless created one formula and Sandy King
the other. Different ratios of the classic and the new part A were added
to the standard parts B and C resulting increased contrast over the
standard VDB print. I intend to try each.

Both of the new formulas used Ferric Citrate. I just ordered some from
the source listed,Tri-Ess - by the way, Tri-Ess is going out of business
and is now selling off its remaining stock.

Carmen Lizardo, the author of the article describing Liam's formula,
apparently had very little trouble getting the Ferric Citrate to go into
solution. She said that eventually it all did. For Sandy, however, it
sounded harder than steaming diamonds until tender.

Liam, what was your experience? Was there anything the article left out?

Sandy, did the sediment ever clear for you?

Dan Williams
Enumclaw WA
Received on Tue Mar 15 21:04:07 2005

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