Re: POP process

From: Susan Huber ^lt;>
Date: 11/11/04-01:36:18 AM Z
Message-id: <00b001c4c7c1$226e8360$8291c8cf@ownereb7xeo44n>

  Hi Diana,
  Thanks for the comments.
  Sometimes I think I am masochisticas the POP is really tricky and iI think it is a recent problem. I wrote to Albumen Works about this 2 years ago and they were upset I even implied that the paper might have changed in substance. The paper now goes off within 2-3 months if you don't put it in the refrigerator.
  I even bought a small refrigo. to see if that helps. I also get bleach spots occasionally which have lessened when I bought a print washer. I believe the emulsion soaks in more chemicals than any other paper.
  I like POP because it is closest to Albumen in look and it is very sharp unlike Platinum. Another favouright is Cyanotype. It is easy and takes a min. ofchemicals.
  Good luck and keep us informed.
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Diana Bloomfield
    Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2004 5:56 AM
    Subject: Re: POP process

    Hi Susan,

    Thanks for your email. I've used POP quite a lot, got good results, and really like it (though I do think it's expensive, a bit tricky, and not sure I like it as much as some other processes). I was mainly interested in the selenium toner comment, because--as I mentioned--the folks at CAW really advised against it--so I was curious. I try to stay away from selenium, but I guess at some point, I was thinking how much easier it would be to use instead of gold toner(?) Again, the people at CAW acted like I might go to hell if I attempted that

    As far as the white gloves, let me clarify-- I only meant that wearing white cotton gloves to initially handle the paper (when it comes right out of the box) is a very good idea. I made the mistake of handling a few pieces without gloves, and the fingerprints will definitely show up, no matter how gingerly you think you are handling the paper. I even tried holding the paper with latex or vinyl gloves, and I found that left a mark as well. But...obviously, I don't wear the white cotton gloves once I'm toning...I do switch to the latex at that point.

    My own question simply had to do with selenium. I, too, live in a humid area..and as I mentioned before, this paper will not last on the shelf any time at all--without proper storage--as you say.

    Thanks again.

    On Nov 9, 2004, at 8:29 AM, Susan Huber wrote:

      Hi Diana,
      I use the POP exclusively- sorry; I didn't answer quickly, was working (off island and away from home).
      I don't know about using white gloves in the toner etc. but; I have found the platinum toner from Bostick and Sullivan to be good along with the gold toners from the Formulary.
      Next time I will try to get gold chloride from chemical supply places near my area (Vacouver Island, BC) because the US gov't is cracking down on chemicals and other things that might go .ballistic... (?)
      The Formulary has suggested Selenium but I don't think it would work well.
      I think the POP goes off very quickly in humid areas (where I live near the sea is a no-no)- so; place the paper in a small refrigerator if possible. And, use quickly. The consistency is the real problem but also its charm.
      The hypo must be a bit old (like a week) or; it bleaches.
      Good luck,
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Diana Bloomfield
      Sent: Monday, November 08, 2004 6:09 AM
      Subject: Re: POP process


      I'm interested in the selenium toning as well. I probably wouldn't use it, but I'm curious about the use of it for POP prints. I have used POP and gold toned, and don't really have anything to add to what everybody else has said here. I liked it very much and thought they made for rich prints with interesting tones... and found that, for me, the end result was much better if I really over-exposed the image initially. And wear the white gloves, definitely. And unless you have good storage for the paper, it does go bad fairly quickly, I think. I'm in a humid climate, and I couldn't allow a box to sit on a shelf for any real length of time. And when gold-toning these (as with any toning, I guess), but more so with this...really stay there and agitate the tray..definitely keep the print moving. Just my experience. I liked the results, but I do think it's expensive.

      And someone on this list in the last few months gave a link to Linda Connor's POP printing method, which I thought was interesting, so it's in the archives somewhere. Maybe they sent it back in the summer?

      But I'm curious about the selenium, because I had wondered if you could use selenium to tone these, instead of the gold, and the folks at Chicago Albumen Works strongly advised against it and pretty much implied I would have a ruined print on my hands if I tried it. I never bothered, since I didn't have any on hand anyway, but I had just wondered..


      On Nov 8, 2004, at 8:44 AM, Jeff Sumner wrote:

      Would you please elaborate on the Selenium toning that you do? I’ve run out of gold toner far in advance of my POP and I’d like to use the rest. My experimentation with POP and selenium toning turned the paper completely black.


      From: David & Jan Harris <>
      Reply-To: <>
      Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 06:02:11 +0000
      To: <>
      Subject: Re: POP process


      I have very recently started using POP paper, here are a few observations:

      1. Toning is (near) vital with this paper. Without toning the result is a strong orange/brown which does not suit too many images, and exposure times may be excessive due to bleaching in the fixer.

      2. Very different results, particularly in image colour, but also in contrast range, exposure requirements and possibly tonality can be obtained using different toning strategies. This is a benefit (wide range of possible results) but also may be the paper's achilles heel (difficult to achieve consistency due to toner exhaustion).

      3. The "classic" toning involves gold toning before fixing. This reduces the bleaching effect, so keeps exposure times short. I have found it to give cool tones in the highlights and brown midtones and shadows at short toning times, up to overall cool tone with longer exposure times. Dmax with this toning is around log 2.1.

      4. I have tried palladium toning but wasn't happy with the results (some prints failed to clear in the highlights, and it was hard to achieve a high Dmax).

      5. Selenium toning (using dilute toner) after fixing works quite well, giving a more neutral colour (slightly warm highlights, slightly cool shadows). The bleaching effect in the fix is more significant, so exposure seems to be three times that required for gold toning before fixing, this does still give a good Dmax however.

      6. Care needs to be taken not to handle the paper, I use cotton gloves and process in one tray to avoid handling during processing.

      7. The only strategy for contrast control is to change the toning. This may be a problem for you if your nagatives are fixed, the negative contrast and characteristics might not suit the paper. The only thing to do is to try it!


      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Monday, November 08, 2004 3:16 AM
      Subject: Re: POP process

      Hello Shannon,

      Thanks so much for responding to my question. You are the only one who responded Perhaps that means few people use POP paper.

      You mentioined Azo paper. From the web, I see that it's a paper Kodak makes and that it comes in #2 and #3 contrasts. It is glossy?

      What can you recall about the problems of exposing the POP paper? I recall you said that it had been a couple of years since you have used it. And also, you mentioned that you had problems toning it, What were the problems?

      Why did you begin to use the POP paper and what made you stop using it?

      I'll be very grateful for your help.

      Donna <>


Received on Thu Nov 11 20:45:57 2004

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