RE: POP process

From: Richard Knoppow ^lt;>
Date: 11/08/04-09:02:50 AM Z
Message-id: <>

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Kirwan
Sent: Nov 8, 2004 6:27 AM
Subject: RE: POP process

Does anyone know if you can formulate a Selenium Toner without using Sodium Thiosulfate (fixer) and would that help in reducing the bleaching effect?
- Mike
   Kodak Rapid Selenium Toner has Ammonium thiosulfate in it. The problem with this toner is that it tones silver halides as readily as it tones metalllic silver. In fact, a 1:9 dilution of KRST is useful as an alterntive to a sodium sulfide solution to test for completeness of fixing.
    POP images consist of very finely devided silver, almost colloidal silver. It is much more readily dissolved than the much coarser silver grains in conventional developing out paper. The fixing baths used for POP are relatively weak and should be neutral pH or slightly alkaline. Gold toners tone the metallic silver in preference to the halide. The toning protects the silver from being dissolved the the fixer. There re probably other metals suitable for toning other than Gold and Platinum or Palladium but I don't know which. Perhaps Ryuji Suzuki has some ideas in this direction.
-----Original Message-----
From: Diana Bloomfield []
Sent: Monday, November 08, 2004 6:10 AM
Subject: Re: POP process


I'm interested in the selenium toning as well. I probably wouldn't use it, but I'm curious about the use of it for POP prints. I have used POP and gold toned, and don't really have anything to add to what everybody else has said here. I liked it very much and thought they made for rich prints with interesting tones... and found that, for me, the end result was much better if I really over-exposed the image initially. And wear the white gloves, definitely. And unless you have good storage for the paper, it does go bad fairly quickly, I think. I'm in a humid climate, and I couldn't allow a box to sit on a shelf for any real length of time. And when gold-toning these (as with any toning, I guess), but more so with this...really stay there and agitate the tray..definitely keep the print moving. Just my experience. I liked the results, but I do think it's expensive.

And someone on this list in the last few months gave a link to Linda Connor's POP printing method, which I thought was interesting, so it's in the archives somewhere. Maybe they sent it back in the summer?

But I'm curious about the selenium, because I had wondered if you could use selenium to tone these, instead of the gold, and the folks at Chicago Albumen Works strongly advised against it and pretty much implied I would have a ruined print on my hands if I tried it. I never bothered, since I didn't have any on hand anyway, but I had just wondered..


On Nov 8, 2004, at 8:44 AM, Jeff Sumner wrote:

Would you please elaborate on the Selenium toning that you do? Ive run out of gold toner far in advance of my POP and Id like to use the rest. My experimentation with POP and selenium toning turned the paper completely black.


From: David & Jan Harris <>
Reply-To: <>
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 06:02:11 +0000
To: <>
Subject: Re: POP process


I have very recently started using POP paper, here are a few observations:

1. Toning is (near) vital with this paper. Without toning the result is a strong orange/brown which does not suit too many images, and exposure times may be excessive due to bleaching in the fixer.

2. Very different results, particularly in image colour, but also in contrast range, exposure requirements and possibly tonality can be obtained using different toning strategies. This is a benefit (wide range of possible results) but also may be the paper's achilles heel (difficult to achieve consistency due to toner exhaustion).

3. The "classic" toning involves gold toning before fixing. This reduces the bleaching effect, so keeps exposure times short. I have found it to give cool tones in the highlights and brown midtones and shadows at short toning times, up to overall cool tone with longer exposure times. Dmax with this toning is around log 2.1.

4. I have tried palladium toning but wasn't happy with the results (some prints failed to clear in the highlights, and it was hard to achieve a high Dmax).

5. Selenium toning (using dilute toner) after fixing works quite well, giving a more neutral colour (slightly warm highlights, slightly cool shadows). The bleaching effect in the fix is more significant, so exposure seems to be three times that required for gold toning before fixing, this does still give a good Dmax however.

6. Care needs to be taken not to handle the paper, I use cotton gloves and process in one tray to avoid handling during processing.

7. The only strategy for contrast control is to change the toning. This may be a problem for you if your nagatives are fixed, the negative contrast and characteristics might not suit the paper. The only thing to do is to try it!


----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November 08, 2004 3:16  AM
Subject: Re: POP process

Hello Shannon,

Thanks so much for  responding to my question.  You are the only one who responded   Perhaps that means few people use POP paper.

You mentioined Azo  paper.  From the web, I see that it's a paper Kodak makes and that it  comes in #2 and #3 contrasts.  It is glossy?

What can you recall  about the problems of exposing the POP paper?  I recall you said that it  had been a couple of years since you have used it.  And also, you  mentioned that you had problems toning it,  What were the  problems?

Why did you begin to use the POP paper and what made you stop  using it?

I'll be very grateful for your help.

Donna <>   

Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA
Received on Mon Nov 8 09:04:58 2004

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