Re: Special thanks, Gordon, for the following- very long re Direct Carbon

From: pete ^lt;temperaprint@blueyonder.co.uk>
Date: 03/12/04-12:59:02 PM Z
Message-id: <BC77B8F6.55FA%temperaprint@blueyonder.co.uk>

John,
John it is good to see you still banging away at the direct carbon process.
There still seems to be a strong interest in this process I had a print on
display in the recent Gold Street Gallery exhibition The Print Exposed. in
Melbourne OZ and received a number of interested responses

 http://www.goldstreetstudios.com.au/P-%20Exposed%202003%20Artists.htm

For those who may wish to try out my process here is the basic process --:

The Fredricktype direct carbon process

The details of the process is as follows the emulsion layer is made up in
the following manner-:

A)35 ml saturated solution amm dichromate
Add to a wide mouthed jar or container

B) Then add 5ml acrylic medium with a stiff brush

C) Then add, and mix 15ml children washable PVA glue

D) Slowly mix these constituents employing a stiff brush with some force and
finally add 10ml pigment powder by volume make the mix really froth.

The use of PVA as a colloid is not new. The British have been using gloy gum
for a number of years to good effect. Gloy is a PVA emulsion and is more
viscous than gum and allows for mechanical abrasive washing of procedures.
Whereas the traditional gum is far to tender and only natural development
will do. The childrenšs PVA is even more viscous than gloy and will
withstand a heavy loading of pigment before losing its adhesion.

This emulsion is poured into a roller tray to which a foam roller is
applied. Fully charged with emulsion then quickly rolled over a specially
sized sheet of watercolour paper. The unique feature of this process is the
method of sizing. I use a very weak coat of Dulux Matt white Emulsion
paints. However any quality water based domestic wall paint will do I think
it is called latex in the US.

Made up one part of emulsion paint to four parts water, Four coatingšs of
this paint were applied and carefully dried between each coating. This
procedure gives a very clean paper base completely free from pigment stain
and had little effect on the integrity of the paper surface.

To develop the image. Spray with warm water into which has been added a dash
of washing up liquid (dish cleaning) or use a foam roller in a flat bottomed
tray a similar manner slowly and gently wash away the unexposed image do not
be in a hurry!

Most watercolour papers will respond to this treatment, I have found that
Fabriarno Artistica is effective for me. Again other papers may need
fine-tuning.
  
Should you have any problems please get back to me

Pete

http://www.alternativephotography.com/artists/peter_fredrick.html
http://www.books.i12.com/parlour/index.html
http://www.books.i12.com/parlour/tempera.html
http://sirius.secureforum.com:8080/~bostick/login
http://www.canserrat.org

 

> From John Grocott. Photographist. Interface Carbon Imbibition Direct Carbon
> print system (I.C.I ) has a little to do with the following-
> Gordon wrote:-
> Date: 08/10/03 20:48:29 GMT Daylight Time
>
> Lots of discussion in the past about Fresson, many details in 1998
>
> see http://www.usask.ca/lists/alt-photo-process/1998/alt98a/
> under Fresson/Artigue
>
> The process depends on making the Fresson paper -which is very difficult
> to make, and is still a trade-secret.
>
> Luis Nadeau knows how to do it, but its difficult, and I doubt that Luis
> will give away his research
>
> From
> http://www.usask.ca/lists/alt-photo-process/1998/alt98a/0499.html
>
> -quote-
>
> Re: Artigue and Fresson Printing
>
> Luis Nadeau (nadeaul@nbnet.nb.ca)
> Sun, 01 Feb 1998 18:00:48 -0400
>
> Messages sorted by: [ date ][ thread ][ subject ][ author ]
> Next message: Gianina Nadramia: "help in Germany"
> Previous message: Joseph O'Neil: "Re: Great Enl. Negs - Better"
> Maybe in reply to: Sandy King: "Artigue and Fresson Printing"
> Next in thread: Luis Nadeau: "NYC Was: Re: Artigue and Fresson Printing"
> At 2:51 AM -0500 98/02/01, Art Chakalis wrote:
>
>
> ...
>
>
>
>> He goes on to write that this machine is the one that Nadeau ultimately
>> purchased and moved to Canada. Keep in mind that this is still hearsay
> but
>> it is interesting to note that though slightly different than your
>> analysis it is surprisingly similar. If one assumes that the raw paper
> is
>> first coated with a base layer of white pigmented gelatin and that Ortiz
>> was not giving the exact order in which the layers went down then the
> two
>> descriptions could both be of the same process/material.
>>
>> One other significant comment from Bill Foster is that after
> Oritz-Echague
>> bought the machine he seemed to produce very few prints due to; being 80
>> plus years old OR was his homemade paper not up to the standard of
>> "Fresson Paper". I personally wonder if the process and/or machine were
>> incomplete.
>
>
>
> It's not incomplete. During my two visits with him, I noticed that Ortiz
> was wearing very thick glasses, which he kept changing all the time. My
> first visit was in 1976, ten years after he bought the process and he was
> about 90 years old by then. He was not active at that time. I knew
> nothing
> of the process yet so I just assumed that as with most processes, it
> could
> be used by any old man. Was I wrong!
>
>
>
> As mentioned in my books and here before, it took me a whole year before I
> got decent results with the process. About 90% of the problems were
> machine/coating related. On many occasions I felt like throwing in the
> towel. It was like a deaf person trying to learn to play violin from a
> book. What kept me going was the knowledge that the damn process had been
> in use for nearly a century and after 10 years of work and negotiations
> to
> acquire it I wasn't going to give up that easily. I finally succeeded.
> With
> hands-on training however, I would say that a period of about one week,
> with the original equipment and everything, would be enough to teach the
> process to someone with excellent eyesight and steady hands, who has
> already mastered a process like carbon transfer printing.
>
>
>
> Contrary to what many people seem to believe, there is more to the process
> than mixing a few drops of liquid, hand-coat it on the paper and 10
> minutes
> later you're ready to expose. This is no platinotype. The process is much
> more difficult than carbon transfer, a process above the heads of
> probably
> more than 90% of the people on this list. Not that it has to be. Most
> people could learn carbon transfer the same way people can learn
> languages
> or play piano. The fact of the matter is that most people don't have the
> dedication that is needed to achieve these things. It's so much more fun
> to
> play golf:)
>
>
>
> One of my customers (a wellknown museum) recently showed me 3 Fressons
> Ortiz made on paper coated by himself after 1966, when he was in his 80s.
> The quality is much inferior to his early work. This confirms that he was
> too old to master the manufacturing process by then.
>
>
>
>> I hope that the analytical work in progress will provide some new and
>> valuable information.
>
>
>
>> From what I can see, you should have most of the formulas worked out by
> the
> next ice age, at which point you'll only have to worry about the coating
> process;-)
>
>
>
> Good luck.
>
>
>
> Luis Nadeau
> NADEAUL@NBNET.NB.CA
> Fredericton, New Brunswick, Canada
>
> - endquote-
>
> Some information about the layering
>
> From
> http://www.usask.ca/lists/alt-photo-process/1998/alt98a/0157.html
>
> -quote-
>
> Re: Artigue and Fresson Printing
>
> Art Chakalis (achakali@freenet.columbus.oh.us)
> Tue, 13 Jan 1998 20:33:14 -0500 (EST)
>
> Messages sorted by: [ date ][ thread ][ subject ][ author ]
> Next message: Art Chakalis: "Re: Artigue and Fresson Printing"
> Previous message: Scott E. Haller: "Re: Van Dyke"
> Maybe in reply to: Sandy King: "Artigue and Fresson Printing"
> Next in thread: Art Chakalis: "Re: Artigue and Fresson Printing"
> On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, Peter Charles Fredrick wrote:
>
>
>> Dear Art
>>
>> . . .
>> I have a little present for you I have in my possession a
> photomichrogragh
>> of a section of Echague Fresson paper which I'm am sending onto you by
>> snail mail as a loan could you copy and return to me .This photo-mic
>> confirms in part Sandys friends observations ,the difference is as
>> follows--:
>>
>>>> According to the analysis, the Fresson paper in question consisted of
> the
>> following, in this order:
>> 1. a paper base, followed by
>> 2. a thin coating of soft gelatin with a relatively thin black pigment
>> dispersion, with a slight cool, ultramarine tone, followed by
>> 3. a thicker layer of gelatin, harder than the first, with no pigment,
>> followed by
>> 4. a powdering of a very fine, dry pigment<<
>>
>> My paper shows--:
>>
>> 1. a paper base
>> 2. my sample does not show this layer
>> 3. Thick layer of colloid, constitution unknown but presumed to be
> gelatin
>> 4. a thin layer of tightly packed very fine dry pigment and sitting
> right
>> up on the top of the paper surface
>>
>>> From this evidence we can presume that the coating consists of least
> two layers
>> a thick one sunk into the paper base and a thin one containing tightly
>> packed pigment, riding piggyback on the thicker base base coating,
> which we
>> could perhaps see as a rather thick sizing layer? Also the fact that
> the
>> pigment layer is perched right up on the surface of the paper provides
>> significant clues to the manner of coating which I am sure must be
>> mechanical in nature.
>>
>> pete
>>
>
>
>
> Pete,
>
>
>
> When the photomichrogragh arrives I will scan it into a file and share it
> with whomever might want to look at it. I can send it as a JPEG image and
> attach it to a note for those who request a copy. I will promptly return
> the original to you.
>
> It is good of you to share the information.
>
> Thanks, Art
>
> Art Chakalis
> Columbus, Ohio, USA
>
> - endquote -
>
> More from
> http://www.usask.ca/lists/alt-photo-process/1998/alt98a/0489.html
>
> - quote -
>
> Re: Artigue and Fresson Printing
>
> Sandy King (sanking@hubcap.clemson.edu)
> Sun, 01 Feb 1998 10:46:05 -0400
>
> Messages sorted by: [ date ][ thread ][ subject ][ author ]
> Next message: Edward Meyers: "Copenhagen"
> Previous message: Nze christian: "Re: Fresson"
> Maybe in reply to: Sandy King: "Artigue and Fresson Printing"
> Next in thread: Luis Nadeau: "Re: Artigue and Fresson Printing"
> Art,
>
>
> Thank you for sharing the contents of Bill Foster's letter. I would not be
> at all surprised but that his description of Fresson as having four
> layers,
> one of clear gelating and three in colored gelatin is not correct.
>
>
>
> Almost ten years ago Russ Young, the editor of The New Pictorialist,
> published a short article by me on Ortiz Echague in which I engaged in
> some
> conjecture about the manufacture of Fresson paper. My conclusion, based
> on
> several references in the literature and conversations with Gerardo
> Vielba
> (a friend of Echague who knew a lot about his working technique), was
> very
> close to what Mr. Foster indicates. In that article I wrote:
>
>
>
> "In addition to its documentary and ideological values, the photography of
> Echage has an aesthetic quality which is substantially enhanced by the
> plastic qualities inherent in the direct carbon process he used. He
> apparently began experimenting with direct carbon and gum bichromate
> sometime in 1906; in October of that year an article in Graphos Ilustrado
> observed that Echage was "competing with a clear disadvantage because of
> his inability to use the pigment processes, which he is only now
> beginning
> to cultivate." What is certain is that by 1915, the year he returned from
> Africa, Echage had become an acknowledged master of Fresson, a process
> which he continued to use throughout his life, eventually producing some
> 1500 of these direct carbon prints. When in 1966 the Fresson family
> ceased
> distributing to the public their Fresson papers they provided
> Ortiz-Echage
> with detailed working procedures which he used to manufacture the paper.
> However, by agreement with the Fresson's Ortiz-Echage did not refer to
> this paper as Fresson, which is why after 1966 he call his printing
> process
> carbondir (carbon + directo), which of course means direct carbon in
> English. In 1979 an aging Ortiz-Echage sold to the Canadian Luis Nadeau
> this carbondir process, including the coating machine used in the
> manufacture of the paper. Although Ortiz-Echage did not reveal the secret
> of the process, and Nadeau himself has shed little light on the
> manufacture
> of his Fressontype paper, a study of the early literature suggests that
> Fresson paper was manufactured by coating a sized paper with several
> layers
> of pigmented colloid, varying in terms of pigment density from very pale
> to
> almost completely opaque. Moreover, for the process to work well each of
> the colloid layers needs to be of a different sensitivity than its
> neighbor, with the most sensitive coating (and palest) on the bottom and
> the least sensitive (and most opaque) on the top. The theory behind this
> coating procedure is identical to that which is employed in the
> production
> of multiple-layer gum prints, the only exception being that in Fresson
> all
> of the layers were applied at once and only one printing and developing
> were required. Thodore Henri-Fresson was probably not the first to
> understand the principle that made his paper work but better than others
> he
> was able to apply solid engineering principles to the problem of coating
> a
> paper with several thin colloid layers."
>
> Regards,
>
> Sandy King
>
> - endquote
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> Gordon J. Holtslander Dept. of Biology
> holtsg@duke.usask.ca 112 Science Place
> http://duke.usask.ca/~holtsg University of Saskatchewan
> Tel (306) 966-4433 Saskatoon, Saskatchewan
> Fax (306) 966-4461 Canada S7N 5E2
> ---------------------------------------------------------
Received on Fri Mar 12 12:48:34 2004

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